The suggested solutions presented here wasn't appropriate to solve the problem.
(Unless an extreme overallocation can be seen as a solution.)
Nothing seems like a solution to those who don't listen.
There were many suggestions supplied.
NOT were over allocations.
Since nobody supplied a one
On Thu, 23 May 2013 16:44:55 +0200, Thomas Berg wrote:
The system should allocate/reallocate according to what is
needed in the actual/immediate need for the dataset without
dumping the problem to the user! (Of course limited by
appropriate resource constraints.)
For situations like that, I
On 05/23/2013 09:44 AM, Thomas Berg wrote:
To clarify.
I wrote:
What is REALLY needed is to get rid of the absurd requirement to specify the
amount of storage to allocate for datasets!
The system should allocate/reallocate according to what is needed in the
actual/immediate need for the
@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK datasets
On Thu, 23 May 2013 16:44:55 +0200, Thomas Berg wrote:
The system should allocate/reallocate according to what is needed in
the actual/immediate need for the dataset without dumping the problem
to the user
In
a90e503c23f97441b05ee302853b0e628f2b31b...@fspas01ev010.fspa.myntet.se,
on 05/23/2013
at 11:53 AM, Thomas Berg thomas.b...@swedbank.se said:
There is a problem that is solved by a simple solution, the one that
I proposed IBM should do.
To every question there is an answer that is obvious,
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:53 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK
datasets
: Thu, 23 May 2013 12:21:07
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK datasets
That is a concept that DB2 uses. It can start at 1 cylinder and increase the
secondary
I think it was a pie in the sky suggestion.
=
=
Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 20:07:25 +
From: eamacn...@yahoo.ca
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK datasets
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
That way if you specified SPACE=(CYL,(10,+5)) and got the primary
sign.
Rex
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of J R
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 3:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK datasets
I think it was a pie
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Pommier, Rex R.
rex.pomm...@cnasurety.com wrote:
OK, I had never heard of this either, so I bit...
1 //RRPBR14 JOB ,TECHSUPT-RRP,MSGCLASS=X,CLASS=A,REGION=8M
2 //STEP1 EXEC PGM=IEFBR14
3 //D DD DSN=MVS.RRP.JUNK,DISP=(,CATLG),
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Tom Marchant m42tom-ibmm...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Thu, 23 May 2013 16:44:55 +0200, Thomas Berg wrote:
deleted
For situations like that, I like to use an allocation like CYL,(1,100).
Allocate a small primary and a much larger secondary. Maybe
also allowing
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of J R
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 3:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK datasets
I think it was a pie in the sky
-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK datasets
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Pommier, Rex R.
rex.pomm...@cnasurety.com wrote:
OK, I had never heard of this either, so I bit...
1 //RRPBR14 JOB ,TECHSUPT-RRP,MSGCLASS=X,CLASS
Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK
datasets
At least space management is Space Management's job.
Production support
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 9:18 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK
datasets
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 9:25 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK
datasets
@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 13:34:28
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK datasets
They are working with production. Not the development side which I work
In
a90e503c23f97441b05ee302853b0e628f2a315...@fspas01ev010.fspa.myntet.se,
on 05/22/2013
at 01:42 PM, Thomas Berg thomas.b...@swedbank.se said:
In
a90e503c23f97441b05ee302853b0e628c16e53...@fspas01ev010.fspa.myntet.se
,
on 05/20/2013
at 09:25 PM, Thomas Berg thomas.b...@swedbank.se
Then why do the answers to my diatribe looks like they don't see this as a
problem ?
It's not that it's not a problem.
It's just that there is 35+ years of prior art that your shop seems to be
ignoring.
-
Ted MacNEIL
eamacn...@yahoo.ca
Twitter: @TedMacNEIL
W dniu 2013-05-20 18:42, Ted MacNEIL pisze:
Windows make work until the disk is full. And that is what we want!
I don't think so.
Windows, in general, is a dedicated single user system. This philosophy is fine
in that environment.
Single user system?
What about Windows SERVERS?
Including
Slightly drifting topic:
could it be that all this mess is responsible for z/OS file I/O not being
able to compete with (for example) Unix file I/O on different platforms?
We have a large application which needs high volumes of read only data.
In Unix and Windows environment, this data comes
How about data striping?
snip
Now, to save CPU, we tried the Unix/Windows solution on z/OS too. The result
was: the CPU time was 25 % less, but elapsed time was significantly higher, due
to waits on the file I/O - although there was not much file I/O - most of it
was reduced by the main
There are many ways to improve I/O for sequential files. My own
experience suggests that the use of BUFNO= and NCP= is exiguous and
should not be.
Comparison shopping is unlikely to be helpful. These problems need to
be addressed directly taking low-level measurements: To be told that
one has
In
a90e503c23f97441b05ee302853b0e628c16e53...@fspas01ev010.fspa.myntet.se,
on 05/20/2013
at 03:33 PM, Thomas Berg thomas.b...@swedbank.se said:
The implied target for the FTINCL is the ISPFILE dataset that is
preallocated.
Why? Allocate one yourself that is big enough, or use FTOPEN TEMP if
In
a90e503c23f97441b05ee302853b0e628c16e53...@fspas01ev010.fspa.myntet.se,
on 05/20/2013
at 05:25 PM, Thomas Berg thomas.b...@swedbank.se said:
As I described at the ISPF-L list, this didn't work. And that's
because ISPF uses an userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK file just for file
tailoring into
In
a90e503c23f97441b05ee302853b0e628c16e53...@fspas01ev010.fspa.myntet.se,
on 05/20/2013
at 09:25 PM, Thomas Berg thomas.b...@swedbank.se said:
=== I think that part of this disagreement is that most of my
opponents here is, more or less, sysprogs. And as such they haven't
experienced the
Hi,
I'm having problems in that when I try FTINCL för a JCL I get B37 on the
userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK dataset.
The implied target for the FTINCL is the ISPFILE dataset that is preallocated.
The code:
FTOPEN
FTINCL VKVASJOB
FTINCL tgtenv NOFT
FTINCL VKVASUPD
FTCLOSE NAME(jbmbr)
I haven't
Have you checked sys1.parmlib(allocnn)?
Space if not specified defaults to 4 tracks.
Thank You,
Dave O'Brien
From: Thomas Berg [thomas.b...@swedbank.se]
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:33 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF
.
Lizette
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Thomas Berg
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 6:34 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK datasets
Hi,
I'm having problems
) will not work to allocate the size
file you want.
Lizette
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Thomas Berg
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 6:34 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF
)
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 6:41 AM
To: isp...@listserv.nd.edu
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK
datasets
Thomas,
The links I gave specifically relate to the WORK datasets.
Andy Styles
-Original Message-
From: ISPF discussion list [mailto:isp
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK datasets
Hi,
I'm having problems in that when I try FTINCL för a JCL I get B37 on the
userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK dataset
...@mindspring.com
Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 06:47:10
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK datasets
]
On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 4:47 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK
datasets
Way too complicated!
Just dynamically allocated/de- as needed for each file tailoring
dialogue.
That way you can control
On Mon, 20 May 2013 17:25:38 +0200, Thomas Berg wrote:
As I described at the ISPF-L list, this didn't work. And that's because ISPF
uses an userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK file just for file tailoring into a
preallocated ISPFILE ddname.
But it worked with preallocating the ISPWRKn and/or
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 5:40 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK
datasets
On Mon, 20 May 2013
On 5/20/2013 9:46 AM, Thomas Berg wrote:
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 5:40 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF
, 2013 11:46 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK datasets
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 5:40 PM
To: IBM-MAIN
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Steve Comstock
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 5:53 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK
datasets
On 5/20/2013 9:46 AM
: Monday, May 20, 2013 11:46 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK
datasets
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013
On 2013-05-20, at 09:59, Thomas Berg wrote:
Windows make work until the disk is full. And that is what we want!
Someone is apt to point out that behavior is better suited to a
single-user desktop system than to a multi-user enterprise system.
And on Windows the constraint is your local
Windows make work until the disk is full. And that is what we want!
I don't think so.
Windows, in general, is a dedicated single user system. This philosophy is fine
in that environment.
But, in a shared system, you are NOT the only one affected by full disks!
-
Ted MacNEIL
And is the reason why UNIX came up with the idea of individual user
quotas on resources. I'll get some nimrod filled up something like
/tmp with a run away, over night, background process. Waking up a
sysadmin with this sort of problem tends to make us just a tad upset
(where is the sob? I'll hang
I seems to be extremely hard to understand what I say and mean.
Or is it a cemented idiosyncrasy among mainframers ?
Regards
Thomas Berg
Thomas Berg Specialist z/OS\RQM\IT Delivery SWEDBANK AB (Publ)
On 5/20/2013 1:03 PM, Thomas Berg wrote:
I seems to be extremely hard to understand what I say and mean.
If it's hard for you, imagine how it is for us g
Or is it a cemented idiosyncrasy among mainframers ?
I worked for several service bureaus during my career. Aside from
providing a
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 10:46 AM, Thomas Berg thomas.b...@swedbank.se wrote:
What is REALLY needed is to get rid of the absurd requirement to specify the
amount of storage to allocate for datasets!
The system should allocate/reallocate according to what is needed in the
actual/immediate
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com wrote:
deleted
I'll restate my wish for an input DDNAME option to SUBMIT. Even
if not a pipe, it might be an allocated UNIX file. z/OS UNIX
with its private HOME filesystems approximates the Windows desktop
behavior: you
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Mike Schwab
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 8:44 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK
datasets
On Mon, May 20, 2013
-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Mike Schwab
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 8:44 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK
datasets
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 10:46 AM, Thomas Berg thomas.b...@swedbank.se
wrote:
What is REALLY needed
Well, how do you do when you not know in beforehand if the job needs 1 track
or 5000 cyls ? And in most of the cases it needs just, say, 5 tracks ? And you
have to allocate 1000 different files in different circumstances and your time
is limited ?
There are ways around that.
Change the
Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 14:38:21
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK datasets
RTFM:
ISPF uses temporary data sets
I wish that I could tell my PC what size to expect for files. A lot of
files grab small chunks creating files with many extents spread all over
the drive. When I write a program, or transfer a file, I know about how
large the file will be, yet I have no way to tell the system.
In our shop we
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:03 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK
datasets
Well, how do you do
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Thomas Berg thomas.b...@swedbank.se wrote:
Our site has several dataclas with DCB and Space parameter values
suitable for smaller files FB 80 and VB 251 with Cyl 10 10 rlse.
Well, how do you do when you not know in beforehand if the job needs 1 track
or 5000
On Mon, 20 May 2013 13:45:46 -0500, Mike Schwab wrote:
Our section uses and IEBGENER proc to SYSOUT=(A,,INTRDR) and works just fine.
I have an EDIT macro that does very similar. _And_ it allocates the INTRDR
with attributes of the data set being submitted; it doesn't quietly truncate
my data
Yes, there is the presumed overallocation with release solution. But many (if
not most) allocations don't work with release at allocation. In most cases
this causes waste of space and still x37's.
Whoa! I'd like to see some examples of such broad (if not, exaggerated)
statement!
-
Ted
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 10:55 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK
datasets
I think that part
They couldn't care less.
They couldn't care less?
About doing their job?
You have a bigger problem than x37 abends!
-
Ted MacNEIL
eamacn...@yahoo.ca
Twitter: @TedMacNEIL
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 10:40 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK
datasets
Yes
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 11:12 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK
datasets
They couldn't care
Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 23:22:32
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: B37 för FTINCL in ISPF for userid.ISPn.SPFTEMPn.WORK datasets
-Original Message-
From: IBM
Thomas,
The way you have been phrasing things, I get the impression that you want
a one size fits all approach.
Over the years our storage services department has worked with each of the
many application groups and the fewer technical groups to assist them
with their needs. Each group has its
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