I think the only time I wrote something that ran correctly the first time, was
back in college coding in assembler on a Univac EXEC O/S system, where I was
writing a program for a class, and I did have the program working, but didn't
like how I had written one section, and completely rewrote
You mean stop screaming fire in a crowded theater?
I concur.
Sent from my iPhone — small keyboarf, fat fungrs, stupd spell manglr. Expct
mistaks
> On Aug 24, 2021, at 12:47 PM, Tom Brennan wrote:
>
> +100
>
>> On 8/24/2021 7:21 AM, Lionel B. Dyck wrote:
>> Can we please get back to the
+100
On 8/24/2021 7:21 AM, Lionel B. Dyck wrote:
Can we please get back to the basics for this listserv?
Lionel B. Dyck <><
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
Github: https://github.com/lbdyck
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partition was for the O/S???
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Pommier, Rex
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 12:28 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Neat/3 [was: RE: [External] Programs that work right the first
time.]
[External Email. Exercise ca
, August 24, 2021 10:16 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Neat/3 [was: RE: [External] Programs that work right the first
time.]
Interesting historical reference. I never actually worked on NCR or in Neat/3,
but it was used as the programming language for a civil service test I took
n but soon after had a far
better offer in the private sector and never looked back.
Peter
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Bill Hitefield
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 9:48 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [External] Programs that work
that you make a lot of claims absolutely but have no evidence for any
of them.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Bill Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 6:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Programs that work right the first time
1 9:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
Really? Perhaps you can demonstrate this relationship by providing the
appropriate equation or basis for evaluation? I mean, something besides your
opinion.
Since you claimed it was a reasonable measure,
hn Wooden
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Gerhard Adam
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 9:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
Really? Perhaps you can demonstrate this relationship by providing the
ap
, 2021 6:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
Someone's height is a pretty good measure of where they lie on the scale of
adulthood. Except for a small percentage of outliers.
On Tuesday, August 24, 2021, 08:48:26 AM EDT, Gerhard Adam
oration
800.480.DINO
423.878.5660
www.dino-software.com
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On
> Behalf Of Pommier, Rex
> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 12:48 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [External] Programs that work right the first time.
&
On Tue, 24 Aug 2021, at 13:06, Bill Johnson wrote:
> I said the vast majority of REXX/CLISTS are not very long. 40 was not
> MY line in the sand.
Yes it was.
If you can't remember what you wrote, you could look back at the
prior messages in the thread. You wrote:
"Anyone who writes a
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Bill Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 5:07 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
I said the vast majority of REXX/CLISTS are not very long. 40 was not MY line
in the san
rror free" and "on demand"
is probably nonsense and is justifiably questioned.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Bill Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 5:07 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
I said the vast majority of REXX/CLISTS are not very long. 40 was not MY line
in the sand. And that's from 40 years of seeing REXX/CLISTS. Some written in
house and some from vendors.
On Tuesday, August 24, 2021, 08:00:24 AM EDT, Jeremy Nicoll
wrote:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2021, at 12:16,
On Tue, 24 Aug 2021, at 12:16, Bill Johnson wrote:
> The hilarity continues. You say that length isn't a good measure
> of complexity
I did, that's true. But in what I wrote below I also said that I wasn't
claiming that my longest example was particularly complex.
Probably the most complex
Subject: Programs that work right the first time.
Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.
This part of the thread got me thinking. How often do you write a program that
works right the first time, with no compile or execution errors? I'm not
talking about two-liners
The hilarity continues. You say that length isn't a good measure of complexity
and then search high and low for the longest REXX programs you can find.
On Tuesday, August 24, 2021, 06:48:02 AM EDT, Jeremy Nicoll
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Aug 2021, at 23:00, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> I'm
On Mon, 23 Aug 2021, at 23:00, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> I'm looking at a home-grown REXX script that is 1690 lines long, and in
> some REXX circles it would be considered tiny. It does use external
> utilities, but is by no means just glue. I'd bet that there are edit
> macros orders of
, August 23, 2021 1:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
Actually, that's not a bad point; I didn't think of it when I posted
originally (a post I'm sorely tempted to regret now, by the way, if only I
went in for that sort of thing) but my 40-line
augustus 2021 19:32
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [External] Programs that work right the first time.
No problem with AH digs however.
On Monday, August 23, 2021, 12:48:16 PM EDT, Pommier, Rex
wrote:
Bob,
No politics, no braggery. :-) I have written a total of 1 program
.
Mike
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Bob Bridges
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2021 9:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Programs that work right the first time.
Caution! This message was sent from outside
Like systems in Easytrieve lazy JUNK
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
David Crayford
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 7:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION
Technical debt :)
> On 22 Aug 2021, at 2:52 pm, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
> What is an application with thousands of lines of REXX code, chopped liver?
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Bob
Bridges [robhbrid...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 1:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
Actually
On Mon, 23 Aug 2021, at 18:44, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Similar to DC, define constant. But not constant.
I neither understand that comment (in the context of my "Add Halfword"
one, nor the "AH" comment in reply to what Rex posted. Would you
mind elucidating?
> On Monday, August 23, 2021,
Fun to remember incidents like that; mine (and there aren't many) help keep me
going on the days I find EVERY POSSIBLE WRONG WAY to do something that looked
simple when I breezily told my boss it would take me "just a couple hours,
tops".
In fact, I felt pleasantly, vicariously triumphant just
Similar to DC, define constant. But not constant.
On Monday, August 23, 2021, 01:42:29 PM EDT, Jeremy Nicoll
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Aug 2021, at 18:31, Bill Johnson wrote:
> No problem with AH digs however.
What is "AH", apart from Add Halfword?
> On Monday, August 23, 2021,
Leaving the political things out, for good reason ...
IMHO, the number of lines of a program can only be a very rough first
guess on program complexity.
As others pointed out, the programming languages have very different
levels of information density,
for example a language which has powerful
On Mon, 23 Aug 2021, at 18:31, Bill Johnson wrote:
> No problem with AH digs however.
What is "AH", apart from Add Halfword?
> On Monday, August 23, 2021, 12:48:16 PM EDT, Pommier, Rex
> wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> No politics, no braggery. :-) I have written a total of 1 program
>
and everything
balanced. Neither one of us to this day knows how we managed that.
Rex
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob
Bridges
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2021 8:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [External] Programs that work right the first
Actually, that's not a bad point; I didn't think of it when I posted
originally (a post I'm sorely tempted to regret now, by the way, if only I
went in for that sort of thing) but my 40-line programs are that short only
because they depend on external routines that are much longer. More of my
-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob
Bridges
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2021 8:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [External] Programs that work right the first time.
This part of the thread got me thinking. How often do you write a program that
works right the first
Subject: [External] Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
I'm going to have to check my communist sources at the University.
When is trump being reinstated?
On Monday, August 23, 2021, 08:02:33 AM EDT, Joe Monk
wrote:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/five-guantanamo
: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the
sender, Don't click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email,
which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.]
"In April 2020, a
tUZzu%2BPL2z1eX0dGJWuw949q0%3Dreserved=0
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
David Spiegel [dspiegel...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 6:15 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Programs
2, 2021, 08:01:21 PM EDT, Savor, Thomas <
> > > 0330b7631be3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > Your guy is in-defensible...great job in Afghanistan...superb !!!
> > > Not only did we leave a bunch of US citizens there, but left NATO
> troops
job in Afghanistan...superb !!!
> > > Not only did we leave a bunch of US citizens there, but left NATO
> troops
> > > there...so Ooooh another Dumbass !!!
> > > Biden makes Carter look good...I thought Obozo was bad...Biden is
> > probably
> > > going t
on behalf of
David Spiegel [dspiegel...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 6:05 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
Hi R'Shmuel AMV"SH,
"defensive" ... What exactly are you asking?
If you mean military-related, the answer is
oon...or at least starting the process.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf
> > Of Bill Johnson
> > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 7:45 PM
> > To: IB
there...so Ooooh another Dumbass !!!
> > Biden makes Carter look good...I thought Obozo was bad...Biden is
> probably
> > going to be removed soon...or at least starting the process.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> > -Original M
your gas prices ??
Thanks,
Tom
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Bill Johnson
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 9:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
Trump started the process of leaving A
$4.25 a gallon in DC last week.
Steve Gorham, Baltimore
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Bill Johnson
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 7:20 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time
??
Thanks,
Tom
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Bill Johnson
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 9:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
Trump started the process of leaving Afghanistan. Ev
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Savor, Thomas [0330b7631be3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 8:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
Tell me whats wrong
s
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 8:47 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **
Typical Liberal.trying your best to spin it into Trumps fault...all Trump
tried to do is get the Afgan folks and the Taliban
na.
> >
> > There were 153 million registered voters in 2016, when 60%
> > voted...which is a pretty high amount.
> > In 2020, 168 million registered voters, 80+ for Biden 74+ for Trump,
> > for 92% voted...impossible.
> >
> > Biden tried to have a rally here i
nframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Eric D Rossman [edros...@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 3:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
Anyone who is writing something brand new and NOT referring to other
working
On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 09:34:55 +1000 Wayne Bickerdike wrote:
:>Number of lines of code is a meaningless measure.
:>In PL/1 :
:>MASSIVE_STRUCTURE = '' ; /* 2,000 FIELDS DECIMAL, BINARY, CHAR, FLOAT */
:>ASSEMBLER:
:>Quite a few MVC instructions and lots of initial DCs
:>COBOL :
:>MOVE ZERO TO
nt: Sunday, August 22, 2021 4:04 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
It simply seems that most of the comments demonstrate that most posters have no
idea what they are doing.
(1) Programs are not complex, problems are. If the program is complex and th
that work right the first time.
While that may have been much more important in the days of cards and 24 hour
turnaround, nowadays it is a waste of human time to deck check the program
over and over again when the computer can do it faster and more effectively.
On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 21:30:58 -0400 Bob
du/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 1:43 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
QQ%3Dreserved=0
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
David Spiegel [dspiegel...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 6:15 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
Hi Bill,
&q
.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Tony Thigpen [t...@vse2pdf.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 7:55 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Programs that work right the first
@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
Hi Bill,
"... "Programming” in REXX, CLIST, and similar types of languages is
hardly programming. ..."
Maybe you should tell that to the US Patent Office in Washington, DC.
They can then invalidate my patent retroactive
LOL
On 8/22/2021 6:43 PM, Steve Horein wrote:
That's fine and all, but what does this have to do with the 2020 election,
Democrats, and Republicans?
On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 8:39 PM Steve Thompson wrote:
My 2 cents.
Because of NDAs, I can't ID the programs, but there are some huge
programs
nal Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf
> Of Bill Johnson
> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 7:45 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
>
> Ooooh, another trumper.
>
>
> Sent from Ya
Stop the politics..get enough of it on news BS
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Savor, Thomas
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 8:47 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
** EXTERNAL EMAIL
TERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
Trump started the process of leaving Afghanistan. Even released 5000 Taliban
including their current leader. We aren't leaving Americans behind. Biden will
be president for another 3 1/2 years, unless he falls ill and Kamala takes
over. A
That's fine and all, but what does this have to do with the 2020 election,
Democrats, and Republicans?
On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 8:39 PM Steve Thompson wrote:
> My 2 cents.
>
> Because of NDAs, I can't ID the programs, but there are some huge
> programs that are written in REXX, used in the z/OS
My 2 cents.
Because of NDAs, I can't ID the programs, but there are some huge
programs that are written in REXX, used in the z/OS world that
are maintained via SMP/E.
I know that one of them is doing VSAM, and one is doing
encryption/decryption and handling of Certificates and gets
called
M-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
Ooooh, another trumper.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 7:42 PM, Wayne Bickerdike wrote:
*I knew I'd trigger the trumpers here.*
Trolls have that effect.
On Mon, Aug 23
rally here in Georgia filled up
> Mercedes Benz stadium, with about 50-60 thousand outside.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf
> Of Bill Johnson
> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 6:37 PM
> To: I
Thanks,
Tom
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
John Clifford
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 8:05 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
Dead wrong. Typical trumpette.
Back to school.
On Sun,
Don't feed the trolls.
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of John Clifford
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:05 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 4:35 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
Number of lines of code is a meaningless measure.
In PL/1 :
MASSIVE_STRUCTURE = '' ; /* 2,000 FIELDS DECIMAL, BINARY, CHAR, FLOAT */
ASSEMBLER:
Quite a few MVC instruc
On Behalf Of
John Clifford
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 8:05 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
Dead wrong. Typical trumpette.
Back to school.
On Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 7:27 PM Savor, Thomas <
0330b7631be3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.
t; Thanks,
>
> Tom
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On
> Behalf Of Bill Johnson
> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 6:37 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
>
> CAUTION
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf
> Of Bill Johnson
> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 6:37 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
>
> CAU
starting the process.
Thanks,
Tom
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Bill Johnson
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 7:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
Ooooh, another trumper.
Sent from Yahoo
>
> Tom
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf
> Of Bill Johnson
> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 6:37 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
>
> CAUTION: This email origi
f
Bill Johnson
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 6:37 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the company. Do not click links
or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content
filled up
> Mercedes Benz stadium, with about 50-60 thousand outside.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf
> Of Bill Johnson
> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 6:37 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.ED
; 92% voted...impossible.
>
> Biden tried to have a rally here in Georgia during the election...couldnt
> get 100 people to show up...Trump had a rally here in Georgia filled up
> Mercedes Benz stadium, with about 50-60 thousand outside.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
>
> -----O
August 22, 2021 6:37 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the company. Do not click links
or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is
safe.
The number of lines of c
Number of lines of code is a meaningless measure.
In PL/1 :
MASSIVE_STRUCTURE = '' ; /* 2,000 FIELDS DECIMAL, BINARY, CHAR, FLOAT */
ASSEMBLER:
Quite a few MVC instructions and lots of initial DCs
COBOL :
MOVE ZERO TO OUT-BLAH
MOVE SPACES TO OUT-BLAH_CHAR1
ad nauseum...
On Mon, Aug 23,
---Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Bill Johnson
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 6:37 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the company. Do not click lin
The number of lines of code is absolutely a good way to determine complexity.
To say otherwise is silly. Is it a 100% correlation, of course not. Reminds me
of people who say that elections are fraudulent and point to the handful of
voter fraud incidents when the reality is, voter fraud is in
On Sun, 22 Aug 2021, at 19:49, Bill Johnson wrote:
> You claim to know of a 1 line APL super complex program but when
> asked to prove it can’t.
What I actually said was:
"A good case in point is that in APL a useful program can be written
in one line."
I /did not/ say that I knew of a
Any programming language can be complex. The problems I’ve had to solve in my
40 year career were far more complex as a programmer than as a SP, DBA, DASD
Admin, Security Admin.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 4:40 PM, David Spiegel
wrote:
Hi Bill,
I
Hi Bill,
I understood that you were defending IBM patents and thank you for the
compliment.
Why, though, do you think that COBOL programs with Database calls can be
complex, when the languages I mentioned are more "dense" (i.e. logic per
keystroke) with or without the Database calls?
(PL/I
I have coded PL/I but thanks.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 4:17 PM, Bill Johnson
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
Dude, you can’t even figure out I’m on YOUR side. When I posted a few months
back regarding IBM patents, a whole bunch of
+1
On 2021-08-22 15:05, Eric D Rossman wrote:
Bill, no need to get defensive. I have written z/OS and Linux (multiple
platform) internals and also user-facing code. Guess which one is harder?
Rhetorical question. Both are really hard to do well.
z/OS internals are notoriously under-commented
Dude, you can’t even figure out I’m on YOUR side. When I posted a few months
back regarding IBM patents, a whole bunch of listers bashed me and claimed most
of IBMs patents were worthless. I’m impressed that you have patented code.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Sunday, August 22, 2021,
Hi Bill,
Are you just a troll, or, are you really that impolite/ignorant?
My Rexx patented program was reviewed by the US Patent office and I was
required to defend it against 5 others.
It took 9 calendar months from the start of application until granting
of patent.
There are reasons why IBM
Been there, done that.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 3:05 PM, Eric D Rossman wrote:
Bill, no need to get defensive. I have written z/OS and Linux (multiple
platform) internals and also user-facing code. Guess which one is harder?
Rhetorical question. Both are
1 PM
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Programs that work right the first time.
> Sent by: "IBM Mainframe Discussion List"
>
> This part of the thread got me thinking. How often do you write a
> program that works right the first time, with no compile or
> execution errors? I'm not ta
: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
Bill, I don't understand what could have pushed your buttons. For instance:
BJ> Comparing a 40 line REXX/CLIST “program” to a 10,000 line IMS/COBOL program
that scans a parts database is an absolute joke.
But the on
Bob wrote “ A few of us (including me) posted "I once wrote a 30-line program
that worked right the first time", and what you heard is "am I not amazing,
wonderful, brilliant? Do you not all admire me?" Is that what happened?”
I hear the second part every day on the IBMlist.
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-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob
Bridges
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 12:40 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Programs that work right the first time.
Bill, I don't understand what
Worked right means what? Syntactically? Or performed exactly as you expected on
input you controlled or knew what was in it? I’ve spent 40 years in ALL aspects
of IT. I was an Ops manager once and used to get resumes from people who
claimed to be Mainframe Computer Operators. Most didn’t know
Bill, I don't understand what could have pushed your buttons. For instance:
BJ> Comparing a 40 line REXX/CLIST “program” to a 10,000 line IMS/COBOL program
that scans a parts database is an absolute joke.
But the only one making that comparison is you. (Maybe that's why you were the
only one
bm.com
"IBM Mainframe Discussion List" wrote on
08/21/2021 09:30:58 PM:
> From: "Bob Bridges"
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Date: 08/21/2021 09:31 PM
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Programs that work right the first time.
> Sent by: "IBM Mainframe Discuss
Bill, no need to get defensive. I have written z/OS and Linux (multiple
platform) internals and also user-facing code. Guess which one is harder?
Rhetorical question. Both are really hard to do well.
z/OS internals are notoriously under-commented and under-understood (I
wanted to make up a
I like to tell my younger colleagues that I am disappointed when my code
works correctly the first time. No bugs to hunt down? Where’s the fun
in that?
On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 14:49 Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> You claim to know of a 1 line APL
You claim to know of a 1 line APL super complex program but when asked to prove
it can’t. I get out of bed on the same side every day.
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On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 2:21 PM, Jeremy Nicoll
wrote:
On Sun, 22 Aug 2021, at 18:43, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Anyone who
No bee in my bonnet. Just don’t like braggarts.
What is more complex? The developers who wrote zOS or the installation? The
programs I wrote over my programming days were much more complex than anything
I’ve written in my SP days. And I’ve written REXX & CLIST. Not all that hard.
Sent from
On Sun, 22 Aug 2021, at 18:43, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Anyone who writes a compiler or assembler is quite complex. And very
> likely thousands of lines of code that took years to develop.
More than just a few thousand, I'd expect, unless it's very-table-driven.
> More in line with the COBOL
I could write a million line program that does nothing. Not what my references
were, so a straw man argument.
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On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 6:09 AM, Jeremy Nicoll
wrote:
On Sun, 22 Aug 2021, at 02:51, Bill Johnson wrote:
> “Programming” in REXX, CLIST, and
Anyone who writes a compiler or assembler is quite complex. And very likely
thousands of lines of code that took years to develop. More in line with the
COBOL programs I was referencing. Not some 40 line REXX program that took a day
or two. In College, I wrote an ATM machine. It took the entire
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