On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 18:21:52 -0500, Roger W. Suhr wrote:
It's really simple, I always tell my younger colleagues: If you're
willing to stay in the office after work hours, I'll stay with you
and show/help you with a few things, and where to find more
information. If not, don't expect me to
In 5357c6a4.3080...@charter.net, on 04/23/2014
at 09:56 AM, Gerhard Postpischil gerha...@charter.net said:
Nowadays companies need to assess applicant skills, but are not
willing to pay for (third party?) testing, even though it would save
them money. A small ISV I did consulting work for
[mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Tony Harminc
Sent: 22 April 2014 23:39
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Sorry state of IT education?
On 22 April 2014 15:45, Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
vignesh.v.sankaranaraya...@marks-and-spencer.com wrote:
I personally take offense to the drone
Date: 23/04/2014 09:48
Subject:Re: Sorry state of IT education?
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Generally these outsourcing services are not sold as we can charge you
less because we hire ill trained young Indians to replace your experienced
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of DASDBILL2
At least we still have decent technical publications from some vendors.
Here's an example of what we
might expect in 10 more years of dumbing down:
The displacement for LA is, like, treated as, ya
Dude! That is, like, so awesomely kewl!
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Chase, John jch...@ussco.com wrote:
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of DASDBILL2
At least we still have decent technical publications from some vendors.
Here's an example
In
985166dbd01445be809d22441b29b...@db3pr02mb219.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com,
on 04/23/2014
at 08:47 AM, Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
vignesh.v.sankaranaraya...@marks-and-spencer.com said:
and most of the experts just say - R.T.F.M
If it's not important enough to you to justify consulting the
I will do the RTFM response. But, in my defense, I will usually try to
include a URL to the proper FM to R. At times, I will even try to quote a
paragraph or two. Now, my usual response to a question which, to me,
implies an abysmal lack of knowledge (Something on the order of I'm trying
to
In
8231196036238745.wa.elardus.engelbrechtsita.co...@listserv.ua.edu,
on 04/22/2014
at 07:39 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za
said:
I agree with John, it is a sorry state, do you remember the very
high-valued IBM-MAIN member who has to close his training business?
That
On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 19:45:44 +, Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
vignesh.v.sankaranaraya...@marks-and-spencer.com wrote:
I imagine this is the norm for today because a well-educated, intelligent,
worker costs a lot more than a pre-programmed drone.
As a result, the industry is now flooded with
Mainframe Admin
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of John McKown
Sent: 23 April 2014 13:21
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Sorry state of IT education?
I will do the RTFM response. But, in my defense, I will usually try
] On Behalf
Of Govind Chettiar
Sent: 23 April 2014 13:33
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Sorry state of IT education?
On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 19:45:44 +, Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
vignesh.v.sankaranaraya...@marks-and-spencer.com wrote:
I imagine this is the norm for today because a well
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 7:56 AM, Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
vignesh.v.sankaranaraya...@marks-and-spencer.com wrote:
Kind of obvious that it's to be expected. And what a convenient way to
call it - resentment.
The point is, they don't stand up for the tech folks when under fire.
A: I can do
xD
On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 06:53:56 -0500, John McKown john.archie.mck...@gmail.com
wrote:
Dude! That is, like, so awesomely kewl!
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Chase, John jch...@ussco.com wrote:
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of DASDBILL2
John,
ugh, I guess like yourself and many others on here I am old school. Expert pay
for expert job.
Repect is right there with it also, maybe its my irish heritage.
Regards,
Scott
From: John McKown
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 9:05 AM
To: IBM Mainframe Discussion
On 4/23/2014 8:56 AM, Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh wrote:
Are we supposed to magically grow skills when it's known that there's a massive
competency gap?
I think I digress ...
In the sixties I was a competent ForTran and assembler (FAP and MAP)
programmer on the 700/7000 series, with
order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement
or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such
purpose.
From: John Weber j...@fiteq.com
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date: 04/22/2014 10:34 AM
Subject:Re: Sorry state of IT education
14:57
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Sorry state of IT education?
On 4/23/2014 8:56 AM, Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh wrote:
Are we supposed to magically grow skills when it's known that there's a
massive competency gap?
I think I digress ...
In the sixties I was a competent ForTran
Allan:
I agree with you. Its the critical thinking skills. Some can be taught and
others I feel are in-breed.
Regards,
Scott
From: Staller, Allan
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 8:15 AM
To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
I do no denigrate anyone for lack of knowledge. I
I work with a good number of new and new to the task folks. Many have looked
for doc before posting anywhere, but they often are also unfamiliar with
finding the books (PDFs) online. Google throws up a lot of distractions along
with the good stuff.
I first heard about the following technique
Yes! That's one of the most useful tricks.
That and site:share.org
- Vignesh
Mainframe admin
On Apr 23, 2014 8:29:54 PM, Linda linda.lst...@comcast.net wrote:
I work with a good number of new and new to the task folks. Many have looked
for doc before posting anywhere, but they often are also
: Re: Sorry state of IT education?
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 12:29:41 -0700
I work with a good number of new and new to the task folks. Many have looked
for doc before posting anywhere, but they often are also unfamiliar with
finding the books (PDFs) online. Google throws up a lot
@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Gerhard Postpischil
Sent: 23 April 2014 14:57
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Sorry state of IT education?
On 4/23/2014 8:56 AM, Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh wrote:
Are we supposed to magically grow skills when it's known that there's a
massive
what?
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 7:49 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Sorry state of IT education?
Now, my usual response to a question which
Not too surprising to me. I imagine this is the norm for today because a
well educated, intelligent, worker costs a lot more than a preprogrammed
drone.
http://www.informationweek.com/strategic-cio/executive-insights-and-innovation/the-sorry-state-of-it-education/d/d-id/1204552
quote
Our
John McKown wrote:
Not too surprising to me. I imagine this is the norm for today because a well
educated, intelligent, worker costs a lot more than a preprogrammed drone.
Agreed.
Our profession is rife with people capable of performing procedures they've
been taught, but incapable of
a lot more than a preprogrammed drone.
http://www.informationweek.com/strategic-cio/executive-insights-and-innovation/the-sorry-state-of-it-education/d/d-id/1204552
quote
Our profession is rife with people capable of performing procedures they've
been taught, but incapable of thinking through
|
allan.stal...@kbmg.com
snip
Not too surprising to me. I imagine this is the norm for today because a well
educated, intelligent,
worker costs a lot more than a preprogrammed drone.
http://www.informationweek.com/strategic-cio/executive-insights-and-innovation/the-sorry-state
This is why common core standards are igniting education.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Staller, Allan
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 5:46 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Sorry state of IT education
imagine this is the norm for today because a
well educated, intelligent, worker costs a lot more than a preprogrammed
drone.
http://www.informationweek.com/strategic-cio/executive-insights-and-innovation/the-sorry-state-of-it-education/d/d-id/1204552
quote
Our profession is rife with people
Engelbrecht
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 08:47
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Reply To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
Subject: Re: Sorry state of IT education?
John McKown wrote:
Not too surprising to me. I imagine this is the norm for today because a well
educated, intelligent, worker costs a lot more
Discussion List
Subject: Re: Sorry state of IT education?
Not just IT. The entire education system from k-12 through bachelor's degree...
Al Staller | Z Systems Programmer | KBM Group | (Tel) 972 664-3565 |
allan.stal...@kbmg.com
snip
Not too surprising to me. I imagine this is the norm for today
On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 07:39:55 -0500, Elardus Engelbrecht wrote:
I believe a well trained person, while being more expensive, can be more
productive
with or without tools/books. And be able to give a good polished solution.
I agree with most of what you write, but not the bit about being
:Re: Sorry state of IT education?
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 07:39:55 -0500, Elardus Engelbrecht wrote:
I believe a well trained person, while being more expensive, can be more
productive
with or without tools/books
Toastmasters.
IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU wrote on
04/22/2014 11:42:54 AM:
From: Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU,
Date: 04/22/2014 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: Sorry state of IT education?
Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN
I imagine this is the norm for today because a well-educated, intelligent,
worker costs a lot more than a pre-programmed drone.
As a result, the industry is now flooded with hundreds of thousands of IT
professionals fully capable of performing procedures they've been taught, but
incapable
Vig,
I agree with you, I cam up thru Operations to Systems Programming and now
Development
Regards,
Scott
From: vignesh.v.sankaranaraya...@marks-and-spencer.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 3:45 PM
To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
I imagine this is the norm for
... and they can also put 'programming' back in 'systems programming' -
instead of calling 'systems administration' ... well, you guessed it grin
Elardus Engelbrecht wrote:
John McKown wrote:
Not too surprising to me. I imagine this is the norm for today because a well
educated,
On 22 April 2014 15:45, Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
vignesh.v.sankaranaraya...@marks-and-spencer.com wrote:
I personally take offense to the drone bashing. Because I'm a drone now,
apparently.
I read this not as drone bashing, but as management bashing. The word
drone with its implication of
11:42:54 AM
Subject: Re: Sorry state of IT education?
I agree! And teachers are making it worse. When my older son did a science
project once there were a lot of spelling and grammatical errors. Not only did
the teacher not even bother to flag them; she said it was not her job to
correct them
At least we still have decent technical publications from some vendors. Here's
an example of what we might expect in 10 more years of dumbing down:
The displacement for LA is, like, treated as, ya know, a 12-bit
unsigned like binary integer. The, ya know, displacement for LAY is
like
On 14Apr22:2243+, DASDBILL2 wrote:
“[Television programming is a] vast wasteland…”
[09 MAY 1961; speech to the National Association of
Broadcasters by Newton Minow, Chairman of the
Federal Communications Commission]
Mr. Minow would likely be at a loss for words if he
had been able to
On 23/04/2014 6:43 AM, DASDBILL2 wrote:
The spelling errors are rapidly increasing in the headlines at the bottom of the screen
on TV news programs.
Fox news? God forbid, that would never happen on the BBC :)
--
For IBM-MAIN
: Sorry state of IT education?
I agree! And teachers are making it worse. When my older son did a
science project once there were a lot of spelling and grammatical
errors. Not only did the teacher not even bother to flag them; she
said it was not her job to correct them -- she was science
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