Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

Den 2019-04-24 kl. 23:38, skrev Peter Kokot: Hello, On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 at 23:12, Björn Larsson wrote: Hi, I did a quick check on two open source libraries that I'm using, namely Smarty templating library and Revive ad server. A quick glance at hand shows that they both uses the I'm not

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

Hi! > If this RFC has caused such a resonance _after_ the vote, maybe, it > can be reopened for a few days so that those who have not voted can > do it? These concerns were expressed before the vote too. They were thoroughly ignored. That didn't make them disappear. -- Stas Malyshev

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

Hi! >> A friendly reminder that some people are hosting customer code which they >> do not want to touch but will get support requests once the code breaks. >> >> - Chris >> > > That's normal? Everyone has projects to maintain, and breaking changes are > common: they're gonna call you for one

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

Den 2019-04-24 kl. 23:35, skrev Andrey Andreev: Hello, I personally am not happy with the outcome of the vote. I think there's no practical benefit to be gained from the proposal and I don't even understand what has urged the author to make it; I voted No on both questions. However, what's

RE: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

> A 68% majority which barely clears the 2/3 requirements for something as > fundamental as that - with so many core devs against it - we'll deserve all > the > criticism that will be coming our way in 7.4/8.0 from end users wondering why > we needlessly broke their apps and made migration a bit

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

Hello, On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 at 13:29, G. P. B. wrote: > > Hello Internal, > > The two weeks of voting have now ended. > The results are 38 for and 18 against (total 56) for the primary vote to > deprecate PHP's short open tag in PHP 7.4. > This passes in favor with 68%. > > The results are 42 for

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

Den 2019-04-24 kl. 16:56, skrev Peter Kokot: Hello, On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 at 13:29, G. P. B. wrote: Hello Internal, The two weeks of voting have now ended. The results are 38 for and 18 against (total 56) for the primary vote to deprecate PHP's short open tag in PHP 7.4. This passes in favor

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

Den 2019-04-24 kl. 19:55, skrev Stanislav Malyshev: Hi! A 68% majority which barely clears the 2/3 requirements for something as fundamental as that - with so many core devs against it - we'll deserve all the criticism that will be coming our way in 7.4/8.0 from end users wondering why we

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On 24/04/2019 21:32, Björn Larsson wrote: With that experience in mind I wonder how different libraries will fare, given this > change? One should also have in mind that there has been a discussion on this list about extending the support cycle for PHP 7.4 like for 5.6, but to some degree it

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

Den 2019-04-24 kl. 19:43, skrev Chase Peeler: On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 1:27 PM Marco Pivetta wrote: On Wed, 24 Apr 2019, 19:25 Christian Schneider, wrote: Am 24.04.2019 um 19:13 schrieb Marco Pivetta : On Wed, 24 Apr 2019, 19:10 Christian Schneider, wrote: Am 24.04.2019 um 19:01 schrieb

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

Hello, I personally am not happy with the outcome of the vote. I think there's no practical benefit to be gained from the proposal and I don't even understand what has urged the author to make it; I voted No on both questions. However, what's done is done and these post-vote protests are getting

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On 24/04/2019 22:12, Björn Larsson wrote: I did a quick check on two open source libraries that I'm using, namely Smarty templating library and Revive ad server. A quick glance at hand shows that they both uses the At the same time fixes for the PHP7.2 warnings would be helpful! My templates

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

Hello, On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 at 23:12, Björn Larsson wrote: > Hi, > > I did a quick check on two open source libraries that I'm using, > namely Smarty templating library and Revive ad server. A quick > glance at hand shows that they both uses the latest release. Smarty 3.1.33 was released 17/9

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecate left-associative ternary operator

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 1:56 PM M. W. Moe wrote: > until this RCF does not happen; I would say nothing interesting will ever > happen. > > Please, Reality TV is less hyperbolic than that. JIT isn't interesting? Typed Properties isn't interesting? FFI isn't interesting? Preload isn't

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On 24.04.2019 at 23:46, Lester Caine wrote: > At the same time fixes for the PHP7.2 warnings would be helpful! My > templates keep throwing 'count' warnings which currently have been fixed > by simply removing the 'count' and leaving the value blank. That is > until someone who knows how to fix

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On 24.04.2019 at 22:47, Björn Larsson wrote: > I recall the discussion about extending the support for 7.4 like we had > for 5.6, see: > - https://externals.io/message/104581#104807 > > I read the discussion as it was rejected, but features like this would > benefit from it, > since not only

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecate left-associative ternary operator

On 24.04.2019 at 19:25, Sara Golemon wrote: > On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 3:56 AM Nikita Popov wrote: > >> 20 years of code in the wild has not "accepted that fact and moved on". If >> a left-associative ternary is used, it is almost certainly a bug. If people >> use this structure by accident

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On 24/04/2019 22:55, Reindl Harald wrote: under which fucking stone did you live all the years that there is something like Code that has been working perfectly for 20+ years and does not need me to waste ANY time worrying about because THAT code will carry on running PHP5.2, but templating

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 7:55 PM Lester Caine wrote: > On 24/04/2019 22:55, Reindl Harald wrote: > > under which fucking stone did you live all the years that there is > > something like > Code that has been working perfectly for 20+ years and does not need me > to waste ANY time worrying about

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On 25/04/2019 00:30, Christoph M. Becker wrote: At the same time fixes for the PHP7.2 warnings would be helpful! My templates keep throwing 'count' warnings which currently have been fixed by simply removing the 'count' and leaving the value blank. That is until someone who knows how to fix it

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

Hi there, Am 24.04.2019 um 21:07 schrieb Peter Kokot: Hello, On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 at 19:44, Chase Peeler wrote: On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 1:27 PM Marco Pivetta wrote: Run a fixer: they are out there, and they are extremely stable too. Also a good chance to finally take a look at code that

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecate left-associative ternary operator

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 6:48 PM Christoph M. Becker wrote: > On 24.04.2019 at 19:25, Sara Golemon wrote: > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 3:56 AM Nikita Popov > wrote: > > > >> 20 years of code in the wild has not "accepted that fact and moved on". > If > >> a left-associative ternary is used, it

RE: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

FWIW, I think it's a bad decision, made against the thoughts of clear majority of core developers - and for hardly a good reason. I believe it illustrates very well why we need to properly define our voting eligibility rules, and I hope someone would be up to the challenge of tackling it (I

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

> On 24 Apr 2019, at 21:56, Lester Caine wrote: > > I've looked at these 'automatic tools' and until there is one that does not > enforce their own views of code style they are just another nail While the pre-build rules may not be what you want - something like PHP_CodeSniffer will let you

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 11:02 AM Stephen Reay wrote: > > > On 24 Apr 2019, at 21:35, Chase Peeler wrote: > > > > If I get started now, maybe I can have everything fixed by the time 8.1 > is > > released. > > > Two characters less than this sentence of yours is a 1-liner find/sed > script to

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 11:27 AM Stephen Reay wrote: > > > On 24 Apr 2019, at 22:16, Chase Peeler wrote: > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 11:02 AM Stephen Reay > wrote: > > > > > On 24 Apr 2019, at 21:35, Chase Peeler chasepee...@gmail.com>> wrote: > >

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On 24/04/2019 15:35, Chase Peeler wrote: Total files scanned: 20,767 Total lines scanned: 4,013,170 Total short open tag references: 6,787 Total files w/ short open tag references: 1,665 1. Open project in PHPStorm (or equivalent). 2. Run inspections. 3. Click convert short open tags.

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:04 PM Peter Bowyer wrote: > Surely the time for vocal opposition was _before_ voting closed? > > And I raised my opposition multiple times. That included one email where I laid out a case for why each reason listed for the RFC did not justify the major BC break. No one

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On 24/04/2019 14:41, vsura...@gmail.com wrote: A 68% majority which barely clears the 2/3 requirements for something as fundamental as that - with so many core devs against it - we'll deserve all the criticism that will be coming our way in 7.4/8.0 from end users wondering why we needlessly

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 10:00 AM Lester Caine wrote: > On 24/04/2019 14:41, vsura...@gmail.com wrote: > > A 68% majority which barely clears the 2/3 requirements for something as > fundamental as that - with so many core devs against it - we'll deserve all > the criticism that will be coming our

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

> On 24 Apr 2019, at 21:00, Lester Caine wrote: > > On 24/04/2019 14:41, vsura...@gmail.com wrote: >> A 68% majority which barely clears the 2/3 requirements for something as >> fundamental as that - with so many core devs against it - we'll deserve all >> the criticism that will be coming

RE: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

Hello, I understand that breaking changes always need extra work, but in this case I think it's a quick change. On my code base (mostly legacy with 1.8m lines), I ran this and got 10 matches to check: grep -rin " vsura...@gmail.com hat am 24. April 2019 um 15:41 geschrieben: > > > FWIW, > >

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On 24/04/2019 15:36, Stephen Reay wrote: Of all the things to ‘refuse to upgrade’ over this seems pretty silly. There are multiple tools that will automatically fix this across an entire codebase in seconds. Heck, a sed 1 liner would do it if you want to DIY it. Another nail rather a reason

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

> On 24 Apr 2019, at 22:16, Chase Peeler wrote: > > > > On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 11:02 AM Stephen Reay > wrote: > > > On 24 Apr 2019, at 21:35, Chase Peeler > > wrote: > > > > If I get started now, maybe I can have everything

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

> On 24 Apr 2019, at 21:35, Chase Peeler wrote: > > If I get started now, maybe I can have everything fixed by the time 8.1 is > released. Two characters less than this sentence of yours is a 1-liner find/sed script to replace all `

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

Hello, just a friendly reminder that by the time one writes an email here these tags can be already replaced with the usual ones. Here is an example of running php-cs-fixer to replace the legacy tags to the full opening tags: php-cs-fixer fix --rules=full_opening_tag --diff --dry-run

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 1:27 PM Marco Pivetta wrote: > On Wed, 24 Apr 2019, 19:25 Christian Schneider, > wrote: > > > Am 24.04.2019 um 19:13 schrieb Marco Pivetta : > > > On Wed, 24 Apr 2019, 19:10 Christian Schneider, > > > wrote: > > > Am 24.04.2019 um 19:01 schrieb Peter Kokot : > > > >

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [VOTE] Deprecate left-associative ternary

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 6:29 PM Paul M. Jones wrote: > Hi all, > > > > On Apr 24, 2019, at 11:27, Nikita Popov wrote: > > > > To better judge the BC impact here, I've analyzed the top 1000 composer > > packages for this pattern. The results are here: > >

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:06 PM Mark Randall wrote: > On 24/04/2019 15:35, Chase Peeler wrote: > >> Total files scanned: 20,767 > > Total lines scanned: 4,013,170 > > Total short open tag references: 6,787 > > Total files w/ short open tag references: 1,665 > > 1. Open project in PHPStorm

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On 24/04/2019 17:14, Chase Peeler wrote: As I've mentioned in other posts, I don't trust this to do a blind find/replace. Some of our legacy code files are REALLY bad. Just doing auto formatting on them in PhpStorm will break things. I believe you may be misinterpreting how these tools work.

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On 24/04/2019 16:07, Stephen Reay wrote: Or use an IDE that has built-in support for inspections/fixing like this, or, as I said, run sed over your project files. Replacing ‘ But why should I have to bother at all? As others have indicated in templates is tidier and HAVING to add thousands

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

Am 24.04.2019 um 19:01 schrieb Peter Kokot : > just a friendly reminder that by the time one writes an email here > these tags can be already replaced with the usual ones. A friendly reminder that some people are hosting customer code which they do not want to touch but will get support requests

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On Wed, 24 Apr 2019, 19:25 Christian Schneider, wrote: > Am 24.04.2019 um 19:13 schrieb Marco Pivetta : > > On Wed, 24 Apr 2019, 19:10 Christian Schneider, > wrote: > > Am 24.04.2019 um 19:01 schrieb Peter Kokot : > > > just a friendly reminder that by the time one writes an email here > > >

RE: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

> -Original Message- > From: Marco Pivetta [mailto:ocram...@gmail.com] > > Also a good chance to finally take a look at code that has been rotting in a > hard > drive for too much time. It's an odd way of justifying a BC break by saying "you can write this one-liner sed or use this

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:03 PM Thomas Bley wrote: > Hello, > > I understand that breaking changes always need extra work, but in this > case I think it's a quick change. On my code base (mostly legacy with 1.8m > lines), I ran this and got 10 matches to check: > > Awesome. I got 6,787 over 4m

Re: Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate left-associative ternary

Hi all, > On Apr 24, 2019, at 11:27, Nikita Popov wrote: > > To better judge the BC impact here, I've analyzed the top 1000 composer > packages for this pattern. The results are here: > https://gist.github.com/nikic/b6214f87b0e4a7c6fe26919ac849194f I *love* research like this. Really nicely

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecate left-associative ternary operator

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 3:56 AM Nikita Popov wrote: > Can't say I understand your position here. Don't want to change the > ternary from left-associative to right-associative? I can understand that: > Silent behavior changes are always problematic. This is not what the RFC > proposes though. > >

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

Am 24.04.2019 um 19:13 schrieb Marco Pivetta : > On Wed, 24 Apr 2019, 19:10 Christian Schneider, wrote: > Am 24.04.2019 um 19:01 schrieb Peter Kokot : > > just a friendly reminder that by the time one writes an email here > > these tags can be already replaced with the usual ones. > > A friendly

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

Hi! > A 68% majority which barely clears the 2/3 requirements for something as > fundamental as that - with so many core devs against it - we'll deserve all > the criticism that will be coming our way in 7.4/8.0 from end users > wondering why we needlessly broke their apps and made migration a

[PHP-DEV] Re: [VOTE] Deprecate left-associative ternary

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 10:43 AM Nikita Popov wrote: > Hi internals, > > I've opened voting on the RFC to deprecate & remove left associative > ternary without explicit parentheses. The vote ends 2019-05-07: > > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/ternary_associativity > > The RFC stays as originally

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On 24/04/2019 17:04, Peter Bowyer wrote: Surely the time for vocal opposition was _before_ voting closed? And actually having a vote would help ... -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - https://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services -

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 1:10 PM Christian Schneider wrote: > Am 24.04.2019 um 19:01 schrieb Peter Kokot : > > just a friendly reminder that by the time one writes an email here > > these tags can be already replaced with the usual ones. > > A friendly reminder that some people are hosting

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On Wed, 24 Apr 2019, 19:10 Christian Schneider, wrote: > Am 24.04.2019 um 19:01 schrieb Peter Kokot : > > just a friendly reminder that by the time one writes an email here > > these tags can be already replaced with the usual ones. > > A friendly reminder that some people are hosting customer

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 2:20 PM Сергей Пантелеев wrote: > Hi, > > >Also imo the reason why people write now (and not in the discussion > phase) because for some time in the voting there wasn't the 2/3 majority > for the 7.4 (so no sense to clutter the list) and now in the end only 1-2 > votes

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

Hello, just deprecate it; please stop this load of nonsense; it's not even a rational discussion here; that's a lot of idiotic rumblings. Have a good day. On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 11:23 AM Chase Peeler wrote: > On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 2:20 PM Сергей Пантелеев > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > >Also

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecate left-associative ternary operator

Hello, the underlaying discussion here is more important; than just voting yes or no on uncompleted hamiltonian graphs; the real question here does php8 will be a break thru; meaning bugger off the mistakes of the past or a continuation of them; until this RCF does not happen; I would say nothing

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 3:07 PM Peter Kokot wrote: > Hello, > > On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 at 19:44, Chase Peeler wrote: > > > > On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 1:27 PM Marco Pivetta > wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 24 Apr 2019, 19:25 Christian Schneider, > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Am 24.04.2019 um 19:13

RE: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

Hi, >Also imo the reason why people write now (and not in the discussion phase) >because for some time in the voting there wasn't the 2/3 majority for the 7.4 >(so no sense to clutter the list) and now in the end only 1-2 votes make the >difference. If this RFC has caused such a resonance

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

Hello, On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 at 19:44, Chase Peeler wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 1:27 PM Marco Pivetta wrote: > > > On Wed, 24 Apr 2019, 19:25 Christian Schneider, > > wrote: > > > > > Am 24.04.2019 um 19:13 schrieb Marco Pivetta : > > > > On Wed, 24 Apr 2019, 19:10 Christian Schneider, >

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] Deprecate left-associative ternary operator

Den 2019-04-22 kl. 10:09, skrev Nikita Popov: On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 11:54 AM Nikita Popov wrote: Hi internals, The only objection here came from Gabriel, and I don't think we'll come to an agreement. Inspired by Bob's recent RFC for concat precedence, I'd like to propose a deprecation and

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

Hello Internal, The two weeks of voting have now ended. The results are 38 for and 18 against (total 56) for the primary vote to deprecate PHP's short open tag in PHP 7.4. This passes in favor with 68%. The results are 42 for and 15 against (total 57) for the secondary vote to remove PHP's short

Re: [PHP-DEV] Object Type Casting Reloaded

wt., 23 kwi 2019 o 11:17 Nikita Popov napisał(a): > ... > Without commenting on the rest of the proposal: It's not possible to use > (ClassName) as a cast syntax, because it is ambiguous. For example (Foo) > [$x] is already valid syntax (fetch constant Foo and take index $x), or > (Foo) +$bar,

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags

On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 at 14:20, Andreas Hennings wrote: > Hello list, > I assume this is only about I do not see this distinction mentioned in the RFC, perhaps I missed it? I > think it would be useful to make this explicit, to avoid possible > confusion. > > G. P. B. schrieb am Mi., 24. Apr.

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecate left-associative ternary operator

> Le 24 avr. 2019 à 11:10, Björn Larsson a écrit : > > Den 2019-04-22 kl. 10:09, skrev Nikita Popov: >> On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 11:54 AM Nikita Popov wrote: >> >>> Hi internals, >>> The only objection here came from Gabriel, and I don't think we'll come to >>> an agreement. >>> Inspired by