I see just now that rev.1546 is integrating the commit message within
the upload first dialog. And the previous commit message is provided
as default.
I think it is a good compromise.
It will not avoid that some people will continue to write meaningless
comments but this will make edition easier, e
On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 11:02 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> Matt Amos wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Richard Fairhurst
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, in reality Potlatch can put any comment where the hell it likes
>>> because it's not hidebound by the XML API that you poor saps have to
>>> l
Matt Amos wrote:
> of course, if what you meant was that because you write the potlatch
> api you can reach into the guts of the database and fiddle with
> changesets after they're closed... well... :-P
Don't get too excited. I can commit whatever evil stuff I like, but
Tom has the final say ov
Hi,
Matt Amos wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Richard Fairhurst
> wrote:
>> Well, in reality Potlatch can put any comment where the hell it likes
>> because it's not hidebound by the XML API that you poor saps have to labour
>> under...
>
> and, in reality, so can JOSM. the XML api do
On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> Well, in reality Potlatch can put any comment where the hell it likes
> because it's not hidebound by the XML API that you poor saps have to labour
> under...
and, in reality, so can JOSM. the XML api doesn't require a comment
tag on the
Ulf Lamping wrote:
> Well, to be honest I'm not convinced that conflict management is
> that important. I got only two or three conflicts in my 2-3 OSM
> years and I have edited the OSM data a lot (in Nürnberg, where
> other mappers are also active). That means roughly 1 conflict per
> yea
Richard Fairhurst schrieb:
> Ulf Lamping wrote:
>> There is *no* problem to add a changeset to an online editor. This
>> is simply just another indication that the potlatch model of not
>> having a "Save" button is the wrong way to go IMHO.
>
> For the record this isn't "the potlatch model". It
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> why is it crucial to the concept of Potlatch to upload every
> modification directly and just-in-time? Wouldn't it be suitable as
> well to have an upload-button and just upload changes made on explicit
> request?
See my other message:
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/p
2009/4/24 Richard Fairhurst :
> Potlatch writes comments as part of the _close_ changeset option. But you
> can't enforce it because there's no way to stop someone closing their
> browser or, in extremis, turning off their computer.
why is it crucial to the concept of Potlatch to upload every
modi
On 23 Apr 2009, at 20:18, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Dermot McNally wrote:
>> Small|Medium|Large update within x km radius of
>> Update of x nodes, y ways, z relations within n km of
>
> [...]
>
>> What do people think?
>
> Almost worthless, I'm sorry to say. Any automatic message can just
2009/4/23 Frederik Ramm :
> Almost worthless, I'm sorry to say. Any automatic message can just as well
> be filled in later by some automatism on some server that compiles and
> anlyses changesets. What we're after is the "human" bit that no machine can
> replace!
A little harsh :(
Lest I've bee
Hi,
Dermot McNally wrote:
> Small|Medium|Large update within x km radius of
> Update of x nodes, y ways, z relations within n km of
[...]
> What do people think?
Almost worthless, I'm sorry to say. Any automatic message can just as
well be filled in later by some automatism on some server th
2009/4/23 Pieren :
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Dermot McNally
>
> I think that empty comments are better than innappropriate comments.
> "guessed" comments will be hard to implement and will most probably
> not help better than crappy comments.
well at least for simple operations they could
Frederik Ramm writes:
> The "leave empty if unsure" makes it easy for users to ignore the
> concept and I don't want to make this easy for them.
I agree with Fred. I also agree with other people who say that it's
annoying. It *is* annoying AND necessary.
--
--my blog is athttp://blog.ru
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> The "leave empty if unsure" makes it easy for users to ignore the
> concept and I don't want to make this easy for them.
have a look at wikipedia's commit messages
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges) which are
optional. wel
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Dermot McNally
I think that empty comments are better than innappropriate comments.
"guessed" comments will be hard to implement and will most probably
not help better than crappy comments.
I would suggest the following :
each time you start JOSM and first time yo
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Frederik Ramm > They will sooner or
later find out
> what this is about.
On Wikipedia, newbie sees what helpful comments are by looking in the
page history or the "recent changes" report which is one of the most
popular page on any Mediawiki project. It is the same
Hi,
Rolf Bode-Meyer wrote:
> That's exactly what I think can be a problem for users.
> Users should have an idea of what type of comment is expected and
> connected to this what it will be used for, where it will appear.
Let them learn by doing. Let them write "bicycle ride" or "afternoon in
the
2009/4/23 Ulf Lamping :
I too am on the position the user shouldn't be forced to a comment as
much worth a useful comment has.
> What we really (also) need to explain is: *what* we want users to enter
> into this field! It's not enough to convince people to do something,
> it's also essential to
Frederik Ramm schrieb:
>> Making the GUI complicated and adding a Help button to explain the
>> complications is, well, not the best idea for improved user
>> friendliness IMHO.
>
> A text field where you have to enter text is not a complicated element.
I perfectly agree, that there's no need
Donnerstag, 23. April 2009 00:35
An: Ulf Lamping
Cc: josm-dev
Betreff: Re: [josm-dev] Commit message not empty
Hi,
Ulf Lamping wrote:
>>> My fear is that especially newbies are prevented from uploading
>>> stuff: "what do I have to add here?!?" - please remember
Hi,
Ulf Lamping wrote:
>>> My fear is that especially newbies are prevented from uploading
>>> stuff: "what do I have to add here?!?" - please remember: not
>>> everyone has several years of subversion or wikipedia experience.
>>
>> We'll add a help button to explain.
>
> Making the GUI complic
Frederik Ramm schrieb:
> Hi,
>
> Ulf Lamping wrote:
>> My fear is that especially newbies are prevented from uploading stuff:
>> "what do I have to add here?!?" - please remember: not everyone has
>> several years of subversion or wikipedia experience.
>
> We'll add a help button to explain.
M
Martijn van Oosterhout schrieb:
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 10:54 PM, Ulf Lamping
> wrote:
>> But, what puzzles me most (if I understand it correct) is that only JOSM
>> has this policy. If it's such a vital interest to the probject, why
>> doesn't the API forces the comments? It's really strange if
On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 10:54 PM, Ulf Lamping
wrote:
> But, what puzzles me most (if I understand it correct) is that only JOSM
> has this policy. If it's such a vital interest to the probject, why
> doesn't the API forces the comments? It's really strange if you add
> something in Potlatch you *c
Frederik Ramm schrieb:
>
> Yes but why would you have to choose. Someone who values OSM high enough
> to devote time and quality work to it can be expected to describe in a
> few words what he is uploading. Why would he say no? The value of the
> contribution is so much higher if others can, in
Pieren writes:
> like to describe my changes but not always. But when I see that "I
> have to" do it, it makes me so angry that I write anything excepted
> what I could kindly write otherwise.
Does it make you angry that you have to click in the Upload button to
commit your changes?
OSM has be
On 22/04/2009 14:44, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>> I am surprised that it requires explanation. Can you imagine the
>> usefulness of http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changesets without
>> descriptions?
>
> Nobody is arguing that detai
On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> I am surprised that it requires explanation. Can you imagine the
> usefulness of http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changesets without
> descriptions?
Nobody is arguing that detailed commit messages are a bad idea, but
that undescriptive br
Hi,
Pieren wrote:
> If I have to choose, I prefere contributors making good quality
> editions with no comments than contributors making bad quality stuff
> with nice comments.
Yes but why would you have to choose. Someone who values OSM high enough
to devote time and quality work to it can be e
Hi,
Maarten Deen wrote:
> If a user gets his changes reverted more often because of the message he
> writes, than I think the system is wrong, not the message. Edits should be
> judged on the edit, not on the message that accompanies it.
I could very well imagine having edits which are questionab
On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> Yes, if the user so dislikes being communicative then let him put "fuck
> you" there and be surprised why his edits get reverted more often than
> others.
>
> Honestly, the commit comment is important and if someone who has made an
> effort t
Frederik Ramm wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Ãvar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:
>> Even if it's only "fuck you"? Because that's the sort of crap we'll
>> get in the database because JOSM is forcing commit messages on people.
>
> Yes, if the user so dislikes being communicative then let him put "fuck
> you" there
I can see why some people would find the comment requirement annoying,
but coming from using svn for source code it seems very natural to me.
I added a bunch of nodes for shops in my town last night and had no
trouble typing "add some stores in Lower Village, and move some" or
something like that.
Hi,
Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>> JOSM will not allow you to omit the comment, much as SVN doesn't allow
>> you to commit without a message. Meaningful comments are vital to the
>> usability of the whole changeset thing and while I can'
On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> JOSM will not allow you to omit the comment, much as SVN doesn't allow
> you to commit without a message. Meaningful comments are vital to the
> usability of the whole changeset thing and while I can't (yet) force
> people to enter something
Hi,
Lars Francke wrote:
> As the API allows to query for all open changesets by a given user
> what I would like to see is an option on upload to append to any of my
> open changesets
Sounds like somewhat of a "power user feature" to me. I'd say if you
want to work on different things at the sam
On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 1:20 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> But honestly, what would you say from a user interface perspective; should
> we try and keep changesets open? What JOSM currently does is open changeset
What I would like to see is that JOSM works like a wiki : when I click
on the upload but
> But honestly, what would you say from a user interface perspective;
> should we try and keep changesets open? What JOSM currently does is open
> changeset - upload - close, for each upoad action. Some people have a
> habit of uploading once every five minutes and they are perhaps annoyed
> to hav
On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 02:20:20 +0300, Frederik Ramm
wrote:
> But honestly, what would you say from a user interface perspective;
> should we try and keep changesets open? What JOSM currently does is open
> changeset - upload - close, for each upoad action. Some people have a
> habit of uploading
Hi,
Matt Amos wrote:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/874667
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/874868
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/874786
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/874869
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/874960
>
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Pieren wrote:
> Forcing people to type a text in the commit message does not help OSM
> at all. It only generates such comments:
>
>
> #886027 (still editing) frolty bla bla
>
> Very helpful.
> Will JOSM be the only editor making this res
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