I guess its some kind of coincidence that I am
noticing a high degree of informal commentary on UG
lists lately. You do realize that this kind of thing
reflects badly on customer and employer appeal?
For instance, I could say some kind of offhand
comment like they'll give a greencard to
First and foremost I feel that this is a list of colleagues who can
freely exchange ideas and thoughts (mostly relating to Java, but
definitely not exclusively Java). In most cases I will not intervene
as any kind of moderator, but I will feel obliged (as should others)
when the list gets
Sorry Mr. Zeidner, informal developer-related commentary is indeed
inappropriate content for a USERS GROUP.
In fact, I have seen on this list that at certain JUG meetings,
discussion on non-Java technologies have been discussed.
Everyone needs to get back to working on corporate project #101
Did anyone else see that Sun did a new BSD style license release of
all of Strongtalk earlier in the month?
It's windows only right now and really not complete (development
stopped when Sun bought the team to do HotSpot).
In case anyone is interested, it's at http://strongtalk.org/ and
Warner,
I am not alluding towards anything or anyone that
was not directly stated in the post. The message was
an inquiry. How is the JUG term managed? Does SUN or
JCP reserve jurisdiction over groups that use this
term?
Thanks,
JMZ
--- Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
First
To my knowledge it isn't directly managed at all. There are now
groups on the dev.java.net for all JUGs but there isn't any kind of
overarching management.
-warner
On Sep 21, 2006, at 11:02 AM, josh zeidner wrote:
Warner,
I am not alluding towards anything or anyone that
was not
Yes, very entertaining.
Although the actual laws and guidelines that govern
these issues remain to be seen( in this thread ), I
do find that fostering an environment of informal
discussion etc. provides an excellent cover for
industry jackasses to effect the community in very
negative ways.
So now that the Flex 2.0 SDK and deployment to a single CPU is free...
has anyone here started to rethink Java + Flex for client projects?
-Timo
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Perhaps a better question is What features or flexibility does Flex 2.0
offer over Dojo or the Google AJAX toolkits?
Michael Oliver
CTO
Alarius Systems LLC
6800 E. Lake Mead Blvd, #1096
Las Vegas, NV 89156
Phone:(702)866-9034
Cell:(518)378-6154
Fax:(702)974-0341
-Original Message-
On 9/21/06, josh zeidner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
JUGs will
likely degrade in relevance( a process already in
effect )
Huh-Huh. Huh-Huh. He said jugs.
Dunno about you, but jugs are still very high in relevance to me.
Sorry, just doing my part to keep the quality of discussions on this
i wish we could get an opinion out of this group
On Sep 21, 2006, at 11:16 AM, josh zeidner wrote:
Yes, very entertaining.
Although the actual laws and guidelines that govern
these issues remain to be seen( in this thread ), I
do find that fostering an environment of informal
discussion
Thanks Chad. Your 'Beavis and Butthead' reference
certainly helped to support your statement.
-jmz
--- Chad Woolley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 9/21/06, josh zeidner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
JUGs will
likely degrade in relevance( a process already in
effect )
Huh-Huh. Huh-Huh.
Ok since any sort of frivolity is frowned upon by some, let's get serious.
Call it govern themselves or sensorship or standards or regulations,
etc. but the problem with that is who decides? If a discussion thread
starts off on AJAX relative to Java and someone interjects some .NET code
Interesting. Thanks Warner!
Its surprising the JCP doesn't cover JUGs, given the
level of governance it provides for specifications and
the like.
-jmz
--- Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
To my knowledge it isn't directly managed at all.
There are now
groups on the
Maybe it's a plot to get speaking time at the next United Nations General
Assembly, they will let just about anyone speak about just about anything.
Michael Oliver
CTO
Alarius Systems LLC
6800 E. Lake Mead Blvd, #1096
Las Vegas, NV 89156
Phone:(702)866-9034
Cell:(518)378-6154
Fax:(702)974-0341
Thanks for a sane reply.
On Sep 21, 2006, at 11:41 AM, Michael Oliver wrote:
Ok since any sort of frivolity is frowned upon by some, let's get
serious.
Call it govern themselves or sensorship or standards or
regulations,
etc. but the problem with that is who decides? If a discussion
Which part was Beavis and which part was Butthead, for my reference only.
Michael Oliver
CTO
Alarius Systems LLC
6800 E. Lake Mead Blvd, #1096
Las Vegas, NV 89156
Phone:(702)866-9034
Cell:(518)378-6154
Fax:(702)974-0341
-Original Message-
From: josh zeidner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I hadn't followed this development.tell us more. To where has the
licensing fee moved? (i.e. what are the new deployment/licensing terms?).
Also, does Flex require its own server?, or only requires it to get
some advanced feature set?
BTW - (just an off-topic comment) per-CPU licensing
Josh -- if you are sincere about starting a discussion on the topic of
JCP and JUG Goverance, then by all means walk your own talk and start a
new thread with a relevant subject line.
-Tim
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+1 Mike's reply.
I hang out on this list despite being an ex-Tucsonan because I
appreciate the diversity, spirit, and range of opinions expressed.
The discussion is usually constructive, and almost always amusing. No
changes necessary IMHO.
Nick
On Sep 21, 2006, at 11:43 AM, Art
I agree that focus on XML as the message is key.
I'm not even sure that XML is the key. I've been experimenting with some
JSON data transmission, and it seems to work just fine with the bonus of
no angle brackets.
http://developer.yahoo.com/common/json.html
Parsing or outputing in Java is easy
What we all need is more people who take themselves too seriously.
This group is what it is. I'm sure that most of us have worked
together at some point and understand each others capacities and
interests and I have seen some great and merited discussions on this
list. I've also seen
--- Tim Colson (tcolson) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So now that the Flex 2.0 SDK and deployment to a
single CPU is free...
I'm considering using Flex for a project. What are
the terms of this 'free Single CPU' license? If its
free why don't I just get another free one for another
CPU?
yeah, JSON is very cool, I seem to remember something about a JCP for
JSON data or at least them coming up with a specification for it to
be easily transferred.
-warner
On Sep 21, 2006, at 11:51 AM, Tim Colson ((tcolson)) wrote:
I agree that focus on XML as the message is key.
I'm not
Pardon me Tim,
I thought the topic WAS Rich Clients so Dojo and Google toolkits were on
topic, not intended to hijack your topic.
Perhaps a better question is What features or flexibility
does Flex 2.0 offer over Dojo or the Google AJAX toolkits?
No, that would be a *different* topic, and
Josh wrote:
I'm considering using Flex for a project. What are the
terms of this 'free Single CPU' license? If its free why
don't I just get another free one for another CPU?
My understanding of the license is that you can run one App on one
machine with One CPU. It forbids running the
Thanks, Jon. Your sentence fragment has been noted
by the authorities. -jmz
--- Jon Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
i wish we could get an opinion out of this group
On Sep 21, 2006, at 11:16 AM, josh zeidner wrote:
Yes, very entertaining.
Although the actual laws and
OK HERE GOES PUBLICLY SINCE PRIVATELY DIDN'T AVOID A FLAME
WAR, I MICHAEL OLIVER DID OFFENSIVELY INSERT MY QUESTION IN
TIM'S THREAD AND I APOLOGIZE!
YOUR QUESTION WAS NOT LESS IMPORTANT THAN MY QUESTION.
Mike... simmer down and slow down, dude. You emailed publicly and
privately at the same
humorand by authorities do you mean the DOL or DOJ or JUGPD?/humor
Michael Oliver
CTO
Alarius Systems LLC
6800 E. Lake Mead Blvd, #1096
Las Vegas, NV 89156
Phone:(702)866-9034
Cell:(518)378-6154
Fax:(702)974-0341
-Original Message-
From: josh zeidner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent:
On 9/21/06 11:51, Tim Colson (tcolson) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why do we all buy into XML? For two good reasons -- it's plain text that
is both human readable and usually understandable, even without a
schema. JSON provides the same thing. I'm not going to argue JSON v.s.
XML smackdown...
Hi Tim,
I'm still struggling with Flex vs. Laszlo. Laszlo
poses no licensing problems and long term costs are
predictable. Furthermore it offers a deployment
scenario that does not require Flash( I'm not sure how
much this feature weighs in its favor ). From a Java
perspective Laszlo still
On 9/21/06 12:03, Tim Colson (tcolson) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I specifically asked if based on the new free licenses anyone is
considering using Flex as a front end with Java. I'm not interested in
DOJO or Google API or Laszlo or Project Foo.
Well at the risk of being accused of being a
Quoting Timno I didn't ask permission... I think folks should use
whatever item or combo fits their needs.
-Timo
My question is to precisely to find out what salient features of these are,
from anyone that DOES want to discuss them so that I don't have to learn all
of them to choose which
Thanks.
Michael Oliver
CTO
Alarius Systems LLC
6800 E. Lake Mead Blvd, #1096
Las Vegas, NV 89156
Phone:(702)866-9034
Cell:(518)378-6154
Fax:(702)974-0341
-Original Message-
From: Steven Elliott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 1:44 PM
To:
Jon,
I think all your statements are valid here.
Remember, I was initially asking a question. I am
certainly not looking to criticize the relationships
between list members, but please keep in mind that
having an official and functional resource for local
Java developers makes everyones
Actually, in one of the in-person meetings recently, I believe we
officially decided to allow a wider-than-just-java focus for the
group. We even took minutes, and I think there's a screenshot or
notes somewhere on the confluence wiki. I'm don't have time to find
it now, but it doesn't matter.
We're calling it Society 3.0 now.
On Sep 21, 2006, at 1:19 PM, josh zeidner wrote:
--- Michael Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ok since any sort of frivolity is frowned upon by
some, let's get serious.
Call it govern themselves or sensorship or
standards or regulations,
etc. but the
Oh yea, gotcha, drippy anarcho sophistry being things like free speech.
The most efficient kind of government is a dictatorship where the LEADER
DECIDES.
Call me drippy, I have been called much worse by much better, just today
it's been rude and uncool and drippy is kind and gentle in
Thanks I will make a note of that in my drippy journal.
Michael Oliver
CTO
Alarius Systems LLC
6800 E. Lake Mead Blvd, #1096
Las Vegas, NV 89156
Phone:(702)866-9034
Cell:(518)378-6154
Fax:(702)974-0341
-Original Message-
From: Chad Woolley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday,
--- Tim Colson (tcolson) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Josh -- if you are sincere about starting a
discussion on the topic of
JCP and JUG Goverance, then by all means walk your
own talk and start a
new thread with a relevant subject line.
Tim, just curious, who 'owns' a thread?
-jmz
I can see it now a new book deal. The rise and fall of the 3rd Society by
Art Gramlich and preface by drippy. Soon to be indexed by Google and Yahoo
(to remain on topic).
Ollie, aka drippy.
Sorry Timo I know you tried to close this thread already.
-Original Message-
From: Art
Josh -- if you are sincere about starting a discussion on
the topic of
JCP and JUG Goverance, then by all means walk your own talk
and start
a new thread with a relevant subject line.
Tim, just curious, who 'owns' a thread?
Is this a troll?
On Sep 21, 2006, at 1:32 PM, josh zeidner wrote:
--- Tim Colson (tcolson) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Josh -- if you are sincere about starting a
discussion on the topic of
JCP and JUG Goverance, then by all means walk your
own talk and start a
new thread with a relevant
At 01:19 PM 9/21/2006, you wrote:
--- Michael Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ok since any sort of frivolity is frowned upon by
some, let's get serious.
Call it govern themselves or sensorship or
standards or regulations,
etc. but the problem with that is who decides? If a
discussion
Flamebait? Thats an interesting way to avoid having
to state anything that might tarnish your reputation
as the local genius.
-jmz
ot: you guys are load of laughs
--- Tim Colson (tcolson) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Josh -- if you are sincere about starting a
discussion on
the
Well at the risk of being accused of being a hijacker and
being assaulted by ALLCAPS what would I get from Flex2.0 1cpu
license that I can't get from Laszlo which is not only free
to put on as many cpus as you want but is also open source
and not left to pricing whims of Adobe (free today
Bingo we have a winner and not bad for someone that doesn't want to discuss
it...thanks.
Michael Oliver
CTO
Alarius Systems LLC
6800 E. Lake Mead Blvd, #1096
Las Vegas, NV 89156
Phone:(702)866-9034
Cell:(518)378-6154
Fax:(702)974-0341
-Original Message-
From: Tim Colson (tcolson)
Nice call, Tim.On 9/21/06, josh zeidner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Flamebait?Thats an interesting way to avoid havingto state anything that might tarnish your reputationasthe local genius.-jmzot: you guys are load of laughs--- Tim Colson (tcolson)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Josh -- if you are
--- Steven Elliott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 9/21/06 12:03, Tim Colson (tcolson)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I specifically asked if based on the new free
licenses anyone is
considering using Flex as a front end with Java.
I'm not interested in
DOJO or Google API or Laszlo or Project
Hitler.
Can it please stop now.
On Sep 21, 2006, at 2:13 PM, josh zeidner wrote:
Great, all this discussion needs is a reference to
Hitler and my life will be complete. Good times
people, time to get some work done. jmz
--- Art Gramlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Is this a troll?
Josh wrote:
From a Java perspective Laszlo still does appear more attractive.
I disagree.
From a license standpoint, Flex 1.0 and 1.5 were certainly unattractive.
From a java perspective -- my experience has been positive with Flex.
For example, using the server component it takes only a
by the International News Group Code of Ethics, you
must renounce your title of Local Genius as you have
failed to take on a battle of the wits.
Have a nice day. Next time I have a half day to
waste I will consider posting to this group.
-jmz
--- Tim Colson (tcolson) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Recent studies have shown that few people who read
this list actually got any work done today. Thanks
guys!
-jmz
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Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
I hadn't followed this development.tell us more. To where
has the licensing fee moved? (i.e. what are the new
deployment/licensing terms?).
As you saw, I described them a bit in a prev email that'll probably hit
your box a few seconds after you sent this one. :-)
I'll add that the
considered Flex but it's a little lower down on my list
because of the Flash plug-in requirement. The customer would
like a thin-client with no plugins.
Yeah, the plugin is small and startup is fairly quick...but I hear what
you're saying.
The license change opens Flex 2.0 up for
Tim,
do you have anything online that you've built?
-jmz
--- Tim Colson (tcolson) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I hadn't followed this development.tell us
more. To where
has the licensing fee moved? (i.e. what are the
new
deployment/licensing terms?).
As you saw, I described
do you have anything online that you've built?
Not publicly. The work I've done is proof of concept internal stuff.
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Hmm, interesting, wonder if they can get Seaside 2 running on it yet.
-warner
On Sep 21, 2006, at 10:54 AM, Art Gramlich wrote:
Did anyone else see that Sun did a new BSD style license release of
all of Strongtalk earlier in the month?
It's windows only right now and really not complete
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