I sorry I'm late responding, but you really should check out:
http://jaynorth.net/?view=scouttracker
I've mentioned this project on the list before. He chose the same toolset and
approach that you did, and my brother has been using it with his troop for
over a year. It is an excellent start.
Steven H. McCown wrote:
Actually, the only parents who are that out of the loop are those who
either choose to be or don't concern themselves enough to ask. A little
how's my son doing? to the Scoutmaster would give a better picture. Most
Scout Masters are excited to talk with parents.
If I had to call all sevenof my kids' teachers every couple of weeks to find out how they aredoing in each of their classes then this would be a full-time job in itself.For the teacher, you mean!!
Tom HAws
___
Ldsoss mailing list
Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org
, August 31, 2006 10:39 AM
To: LDS Open Source Software
Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] Scout Tracking
Steven H. McCown wrote:
The key is that if you don't *really* have to be web-accessible, then
don't.
If it isn't web-accessible then parents continue to be largely out of
the loop
Thanks to the student progress system
our school district is using I know if there is a problem with one of my
kids before the report cards come out. Also, teachers are not spending
a good deal of their time talking to the parents but rather they are
spending more of their time, well hopefully,
Jesse Stay wrote:
This is actually what concerns me about my daughter's school. She's a
first grader and they want to post her and her classmates' (w/ naive
parents permission, of course) pictures and names along with progress
info on a website, no login or anything to protect that info. It
, then dont.
Steve
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Oscar Schultz
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 5:48
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; LDS Open Source Software
Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] Scout
Tracking
you ever get the table definitions done as SQL?
Hello list,
Between
Steven H. McCown wrote:
The key is that if you don’t *really* have to be web-accessible, then
don’t.
If it isn't web-accessible then parents continue to be largely out of
the loop on their son's status in scouts and we continue to spend money
out of our YM budgets for TroopMaster
I agree with Paul. Keep moving forward Oscar!
Tom
Paul Penrod wrote:
Oscar,
There is an old saying in business:
If you want to stagnate a company, give control of it to an Accountant.
If you want to kill it, give control of it
to a lawyer.
The point is simply this:
After reviewing the urls (the ones that are valid) I did not see anything to
suggest php is any worse or better than any other language.
My number one choice would be to use c.
The app should support winxx, mac, unix, linux and text (if possible). The app
also must scale from localhost to
Oscar,
There is an old saying in business:
If you want to stagnate a company, give control of it to an Accountant.
If you want to kill it, give control of it
to a lawyer.
The point is simply this:
Instead of worrying about the theoretical, do what you are doing and
when you are done,
Im resending this since it bounced. Something about being
over 40KB
There are some more serious security
implications with your choice of tools (e.g., injections). Far from the
definitive word, these are hotly debated, demonstrated, and refuted. Here
are a couple of blog articles
On Tuesday 15 August 2006 8:24 pm, A. Rick Anderson wrote:
Oscar Schultz wrote:
On Monday 10 July 2006 10:04 am, Tom Welch wrote:
Good start Oscar.
It is a start. I'll add the changes, modify into sql and repost.
Did you ever get the table definitions done as SQL?
Hello list,
Between
Oscar Schultz wrote:
On Monday 10 July 2006 10:04 am, Tom Welch wrote:
Good start Oscar.
It is a start. I'll add the changes, modify into sql and repost.
Did you ever get the table definitions done as SQL?
--
A. Rick Anderson
___
Ldsoss mailing
On Monday 10 July 2006 10:04 am, Tom Welch wrote:
I've used Dia in the past for Linux. I've not used Umbrello but it
looks like it should do the trick just fine. Also, to model the data,
have you given MySQL Workbench
http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/workbench/1.0.html a try?
thanks - I will
I've used Dia in the past for Linux. I've not used Umbrello but it
looks like it should do the trick just fine. Also, to model the data,
have you given MySQL
Workbench a try?
Here are my comments on your data table. Take them for what they are
worth...about a nickel and two pennies.
As a
Tom Welch wrote:
I've used Dia in the past for Linux. I've not used Umbrello but it
looks like it should do the trick just fine
I used Umbrello briefly once. As I recall, it worked reasonably well
for drawing, but I didn't care for its round-trip code-generation.
Unless you are doing
Hopefully someone on the list has reviewed my set of tables and fields.
no responses about the structure yet.
I need a list of the needed basic functions to produce a tracker with a
minimum set of functions . A set of functions to manage (add,delete, modify)
people, events, awards,
Steven H. McCown wrote:
Since the requirement/goal/whatever was that the software be accessible to
all church users and non-church users, shouldn't the platform and tools
choice reflect *their preferences*???
Later, yes. Now, not necessarily. Let developers use what they will.
I suspect
, then perhaps their needs should be considered a bit.
The 'best' technology isn't always the best for the user...
Steve
-Original Message-
From: Charles Fry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 8:33 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; LDS Open Source Software
Subject: Re: [Ldsoss
On 8 Jul 2006 at 8:08, Steven H. McCown wrote:
Since the requirement/goal/whatever was that the software be
accessible to all church users and non-church users, shouldn't
the platform and tools choice reflect *their preferences*???
Shouldn't we go where the users are? Where they are likely
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Pyne
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 12:57 PM
To: LDS Open Source Software
Subject: RE: [Ldsoss] Scout Tracking
On 8 Jul 2006 at 8:08, Steven H. McCown wrote:
Since the requirement/goal/whatever
On 7/6/06, Oscar Schultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
mine
first_name
middle_name
last_name
preferred_name
gender
birth_day
birth_month
birth_year
record_id
date_recorded
It will all go into a sql table
Address, phone, email will be separate tables since people can have multiple
of each.
My
To: LDS Open Source Software
Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] Scout Tracking
...
My plan is to use either MySQL or PostGRES, php, apache, and linux with a
web interface.
...
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Ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org
http://lists.ldsoss.org/mailman/listinfo/ldsoss
True - storing data/forms is challenging.
Tracking awards makes planning and program management easier.
Access to information however is required for trips.
The required documentation for an outing to occur is:
a permission slip per person, a required medical form (normally a class 2) per
On 2006.07.07 18:43:37 -0600, Oscar Schultz wrote:
True - storing data/forms is challenging.
Tracking awards makes planning and program management easier.
Access to information however is required for trips.
Agreed.
The required documentation for an outing to occur is:
[... concede listing
Ok. I've put together the initial base classes to meet the criterion from my
earlier email (below) about what features should be in the system. However,
I haven't defined the paperwork system fully.
Most of the classes are obvious, I hope, but just in case they're not, I will
be writing up a
Robert Nickel wrote:
lol. My efforts were toward the normalization of the database and creation of
the php classes for the various objects in a web based system. However, I
...
will try to make some sense of what I've been thinking.
The core features that *must* be implemented (Level 1):
As someone who has a hyphen in his last name not from marriage, but from birth
it also in infuriating when I come across a computer system that will only
accept alpha characters in the last name field.
GR Gordon-Ross
A. Rick Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Robert Nickel wrote:
lol. My
On 2006.06.27 08:33:32 -0400, A. Rick Anderson wrote:
[...]
As one who uses their middle name, I am always infuriated when, in this
day of TeraByte storage, I encounter computer systems that insist on
calling me A, because I use A. Rick Anderson. If you insist on such
an archaic
On 2006.06.26 23:34:24 -0600, Oscar Schultz wrote:
Thanks for the feedback.
You noted you have outlined the php classes you think are needed - are you
willing to post or send me a copy of your classes ?
[...]
Yes, I'm willing to forward what I have done. However, my original plans were
for
Since you already put in a lot of time and effort you should better know where
the problems are in a web based system. Outlining the problems would save
anyone just starting a lot of time and false starts. .
Please outline what requirements you believe a tracking program should satisfy
and
I hope that you still consider setting it up only available to localhost.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Hanks
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 5:51 PM
To: LDS Open Source Software
Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] Scout Tracking
On Wed, 14 Jun
Installability and easy updates. And easy synchronizing ;)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven H. McCown
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 10:54 PM
To: 'LDS Open Source Software'
Subject: RE: [Ldsoss] Scout Tracking
Other thoughts
Steven McCown explains in detail what was bothering me about using
Perl or Ruby. The reality is that those languages and the average
Windows box just don't jive. But Java does. Is there a way to do
this using Java? Sorry, but as Steven says, we have to consider the
end user. And the end user
Steven H. McCown wrote:
Most users are not perpetually WiFi connected, but still use the Internet at
home. Most of the church buildings do not have WiFi. That's why a web app
would require 2 sets of record keeping -- for most users.
The web app actually eliminates a set of records...
Thomas Haws wrote:
Steven McCown explains in detail what was bothering me about using
Perl or Ruby. The reality is that those languages and the average
Windows box just don't jive.
That's a big assumption, but I can't deny it, since I don't know Perl or
Ruby well enough. Chances are there's
On 6/14/06, Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thomas Haws wrote:
This is very intriguing. Can you point to an example we might install
and try?
I hope someone else knows of an example. Conceptually, it's simple, and
I can see the solution from start to finish. But I'm surprised it
Thomas Haws wrote:
1.
be careful to use cross-platform technologies. Shell scripts, assembly
code, and ActiveX are bad ideas, because we need portable code for the
next steps.
Can you please clarify this? Is PHP a shell script?
No, PHP is not a shell script, but I'm not certain it's easily
On 6/14/06, Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Now, as for choosing the web app server technology... yikes. Please be
nice to each other. :-) FWIW, I'd vote for Django in this case. Django
is written in Python, a highly agile and portable language, and it's
inspired by Zope, Ruby on
Shane, I'd like to follow up on this:
On 6/14/06, Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yes. The installer will put the web app in the Program Files directory
and a shortcut will be added to the menu and desktop. The shortcut will
both launch the web app and launch the user's browser once
--- Thomas Haws [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Shane, I'd like to follow up on this:
On 6/14/06, Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yes. The installer will put the web app in the Program
Files directory and a shortcut will be added to the menu and
desktop. The shortcut will both launch the
Gary Thornock wrote:
That means, though, that you require the user to have a web
server installed on his computer (either because your installer
put it there, or because he already had one). This brings me
back to a comment I made several days ago: sure, I *can* install
a LAMP application on
This is very intriguing. Can you point to an example we might install and try?
If I understand right, you are saying I can run it on my desktop for
my troop, or I can run it at a web server for my troop or for the
entire council or church?
--
Tom Haws 480-201-5476
OpenOffice.org v. MS Office:
On Wed, 14 Jun 2006, Shane Hathaway wrote:
Thomas Haws wrote:
This is very intriguing. Can you point to an example we might install
and try?
I hope someone else knows of an example. Conceptually, it's simple, and
I can see the solution from start to finish. But I'm surprised it
hasn't
Other thoughts:
Whatever language is used for this or any general app needs to consider the
end user. The general end user is not a power sys admin, but someone who
installs out of the box, uses only the defaults, and never updates. If Perl
or Ruby or what ever is used is installed on the
On Tue, 13 Jun 2006, Steven H. McCown wrote:
The other issue is what value would a centralized database really offer?
For day-to-day usage, it would offer zero value. If a scout moved wards, it
would allow his records to be transferred. However, much of that is
maintained by BSA, anyway. If
Steven H. McCown wrote:
The reason that I proposed the non-centralized storage option is that not
that security is more or less, but because attacks on very small databases
yield very small rewards. In contrast, attacks on highly-centralized
databases offer greater rewards for the attacker.
]
Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] Scout Tracking
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 10:32:44 -0600
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],
LDS Open Source Software ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org
Reply-To: LDS Open Source Software ldsoss@lists.ldsoss.org
Steven H. McCown wrote:
The reason that I proposed the non-centralized storage option
Charles Fry wrote:
All of your suggestions could also be implemented in centralized
database, if desired.
Is that different from what I suggested?
But the key management seems potentially unwieldy if you want every
parent and every scout to be able to access the database.
I think that's a
On Tue, Jun 13, 2006 at 10:32:44AM -0600, Shane Hathaway wrote:
The architecture I suggested would effectively turn the centralized
server into warehouse of small, practically unbreakable databases.
I don't see the need for a centralized churchwide database. This whole
discussion is in the
Justin R Findlay wrote:
On Tue, Jun 13, 2006 at 11:10:50AM -0600, Shane Hathaway wrote:
We don't need a churchwide database, we only need a place for people to
put their databases so that others in the troop can access the database
even when the scoutmaster's computer is turned off.
So,
Justin R Findlay wrote:
I agree with Steven here. The merits of a centralized database seem as
though they are just the convenience of data miners and, potentially, of
identity thiefs, unless someone can convince me of some great compelling
benefit of centralization.
I would also agree
Stacey wrote:
Justin R Findlay wrote:
I agree with Steven here. The merits of a centralized database seem as
though they are just the convenience of data miners and, potentially, of
identity thiefs, unless someone can convince me of some great compelling
benefit of centralization.
I
Slide wrote:
I liked the idea someone mentioned about having a sort of source
control mentality about it all. You can grab a working copy and put it
on your laptop for meetings and then when you are done, you can
commit the changes back into the main repository or database. This
could be
Thomas Haws wrote:
You are right that Scouting advancement records are a local concern.
The main Scouting record-keeping problems are:
-Boy loses Scout book
-Scoutmaster or Committee changes or leaves area
-Scout shows up in area without records
These aren't academic. And centralized
, 2006 8:19 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; LDS Open Source Software
Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] Scout Tracking
I think your concerns are vitally important to keep in mind, but the
attitude of it can't be done is not one that will get us anywhere.
___
Ldsoss mailing
] On Behalf Of Tom Welch
Sent: Wednesday June 07 2006 7:29 AM
To: LDS Open Source Software
Subject: Re: Ldsoss Scout Tracking
If the Church were to host the site would that alleviate your
concernsCurrently you can get a ward
-- despite good intentions -- it would be wise not to fall
into it.
Steve
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Hanks
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:04 AM
To: LDS Open Source Software
Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] Scout Tracking
On Tue, 6 Jun 2006, Tom
Software'
Subject: RE: [Ldsoss] Scout Tracking
Hi Gary,
Actually I think without wanting to start a legal debate about
it this would be covered by you as a parent allowing your kids
to be entered in the MIS already.
Manfred.
___
Ldsoss mailing list
Ldsoss
Web based is definitely the way to go. I have been mulling over
doing something like this for some time. I'd be willing to help
as time permits.
--Richard
On 6 Jun 2006 at 8:42, Tom Welch wrote:
Slide wrote:
What would be great is if you
could also have a plug-in type system for
: [Ldsoss] Scout Tracking
On Tue, 6 Jun 2006, Tom Welch wrote:
Web-based would be great, but with the church's policy on non-official
websites, where does that put the local unit that would want to install
and use such a web-based app?
-- Dan
. This is
a huge pitfall -- despite good intentions -- it would be wise not to fall
into it.
Steve
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Hanks
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:04 AM
To: LDS Open Source Software
Subject: Re: [Ldsoss
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 7:29 AM
To: LDS Open Source Software
Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] Scout Tracking
If the Church were to host the site, would that alleviate your concerns?
Currently you can get a ward listing of all members in the ward, their
address and phone numbers from the ward unit website
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 7:29 AM
To: LDS Open Source Software
Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] Scout Tracking
If the Church were to host the site, would that alleviate your concerns?
Currently you can get a ward listing of all members in the ward, their
address and phone numbers from the ward unit
There are fundamentally two architectures.
Standalone and online. Any discussion we can have about the merits and
demerits of both have been repeated ad-nausea for every application
since the birth of the Internet.
If we try to boil the ocean on the first pass, the project is doomed
from
.
Kind regards,
Manfred Riem
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.manorrock.org/
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of A. Rick Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 10:23 AM
To: LDS Open Source Software
Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] Scout Tracking
Steven H. McCown wrote:
2) It is a legal problem to start posting information about minor children
to the Internet. That would have to be decided at Church HQ and not by the
local units. They don't even allow information to be posted into Family
Search about living people, they just insert a
I've been reading this thread with some interest to see where it's going.
Right now, it appears that the discussion is being dragged down a series
of familiar self-inflicted rat holes.
What would be most helpful to getting something productive, Tom, and
others from HQ, is to offer, at a minimum,
Before we get to use-cases, lets start at the bottom:
1. Define the problem: ie: There is a need to track scouts and their
information
2. From that, branch out into more detail with regard to business
process. ie: I need to track
scouts with in my district, Of the scouts in my district, the
We're in violent agreement!
I do several iterations on a Use-Case, adding detail and information as
I drill down. What you are calling a Business Process, I'd capture on
the second iteration of use-cases as a business level use-case. See
Writing Effective Use Cases by Alistar Cockburn. He
On Wed, Jun 07, 2006 at 02:12:08PM -0400, A. Rick Anderson wrote:
My point was that if Linus had attempted to implement all of
the features added to the kernel over the last 15 years in the first
iteration, Linux, as we know and love would have never have happened.
Reminds me of the
On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 07:34:23AM -0600, Tom Welch wrote:
I used TroopMaster in the past and it did not require me to purchase a
new license each year. However that was about 3 years ago and they may
have changed their pricing plan. The biggest problem that I had with
TroopMaster was
--- Tom Welch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I used TroopMaster in the past and it did not require me to
purchase a new license each year. However that was about 3
years ago and they may have changed their pricing plan. The
biggest problem that I had with TroopMaster was that it is not
easy to
Source Software
Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] Scout Tracking
Slide wrote:
What would be great is if you
could also have a plug-in type system for working with the various
religious awards as well (Duty to God for LDS) which would then allow
other Scouting groups to take advantage of it without
This is interesting to me, though I don't know I have the skills needed to help much unless it's LAMP.If the church were to sponsor an Open Source project, would it be likely a good idea to have it web-browser-based with the church sponsoring a main installation, kind of like phpGedView and John
Good point! ;)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Hanks
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:04 AM
To: LDS Open Source Software
Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] Scout Tracking
On Tue, 6 Jun 2006, Tom Welch wrote:
could also have a plug-in type system
--- Tom Welch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dan Hanks wrote:
On Tue, 6 Jun 2006, Tom Welch wrote:
could also have a plug-in type system for working with the
various religious awards as well (Duty to God for LDS) which
would then allow other Scouting groups to take advantage of
it without tying
My thoughts were to create a central repository (whether hosted by the
church or individually would be up for debate) and then we could
provide several ways to access that data.
1. We (the community) could provide a SOAP or other interface to the
data so that people could write thick client
: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 10:29 AM
To: LDS Open Source Software
Subject: Re: [Ldsoss] Scout Tracking
--- Tom Welch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dan Hanks wrote:
On Tue, 6 Jun 2006, Tom Welch wrote:
could also have a plug-in type system for working with the various
religious awards as well (Duty to God
On 6/6/06, Tom Welch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My thoughts were to create a central repository (whether hosted by the
church or individually would be up for debate) and then we could provide
several ways to access that data.
1. We (the community) could provide a SOAP or other interface to
On Tue, 6 Jun 2006, Tom Welch wrote:
My thoughts were to create a central repository (whether hosted by the church
or individually would be up for debate) and then we could provide several
ways to access that data.
1. We (the community) could provide a SOAP or other interface to the data so
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