principle still apply (including in
particular that the OSMF publishes the changeset discussions under ODbL
as well).
The main difference i think is that contributions to changeset
discussions have a higher likeliness to in themselves be subject to
copyright (and not just database protection).
--
C
chavi) so if you have an
issue with that in principle picking out Slack specifically is not
really appropriate.
(that is all under the assumption that Slack is using the data in
compliance with the ODbL - which i don't know)
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Christoph Hormann
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Talking about compact binary data
representation here of course, not raw OSM XML and no lossy
compression.
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Christoph Hormann
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d
require neither share-alike nor attribution since they are neither a
Derivative Database, a Collective Database nor a Produced Work.
So while your willingness to attribute is admirable this kind of
attribution for mixed and processed data without shar
hing of additional value in combination with other data
under open license terms.
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enario
share-alike is meant for and why it was chosen as license for OSM. But
there are of course fairly strong economic interests for this not being
subject to share-alike so people think of ways to interpret the ODbL
accordingly.
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Christoph Hormann
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__
lready wrote in
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2019-November/083535.html
existing OSMF community guidelines suggest spatial operations like
ST_Difference() and ST_Intersection() yield Derivative Databases that
are subject to share-alike.
--
Christoph Hormann
between mappers and data users that OSM is
built on and depends on however the situation looks very different.
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for
access "by electronic or other means". Inversely the same applies to
the nature of a produced work.
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in a
database-like fashion or more in the form of a finished product ready
for human consumption. The scene geometry for a 3d rendering is quite
clearly more database-like in its use.
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legal
he only consistent view of these
concepts is IMO to consider them to be limited exclusively to cases
when you are talking about things produced for and used only for direct
human consumption.
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are not the
result of a literal copy but result from 'knowledge' encoded in a
neural network.
When considering this subject, maybe think of it less as a question of
copying data, think of it more as a process of mimicry.
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Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/
___
use of OSM data, in particular in the context of 'big data',
> and how this relates to the ODbL. It seems to me opinions on this
> are too much based on wishful thinking and too little aim to form a
> consistent framework that supports desirable and harmless use cases
> but does not create l
e context of 'big data', and how
this relates to the ODbL. It seems to me opinions on this are too much
based on wishful thinking and too little aim to form a consistent
framework that supports desirable and harmless use cases but does not
create loopholes against the spirit of the license.
--
Substantial_-_Guideline
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if you mask the data early in a more elaborate
process and do further processing afterwards based on a data set that
is an inseparable combination of both data sources the situation is not
that clear.
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Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/
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le
ermediate
data you might get separate raster maps for the OSM roads and the
Google roads.
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escribed in explicit form (like linestring or polygon) or implicit
form (like distance function)?
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enging - but that is just a minor hurdle.
Note from a business perspective as a data user i would not really mind
if the above scenario was acceptable but as said it would practically
mean the end of share-alike for map rendering applications - and that
is likely not what the mappers who voted
. But on the other hand you
could argue (as you already did in your mail) that once you use a
produced work in a database-like fashion it becomes a derivative
database again - the same way as if you trace features from a rendered
OSM map.
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Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/
is the perfect trial balloon to test how far you can go.
And if Oxford University gets screwed over this that is not their
problem. If not and this kind of data combination becomes widely
accepted this would OTOH open the door for a lot of applications that
would depend on circumventing share-alike.
--
. But
you could probably also look at it differently. I would like to hear
opinions on this. In particular if you think that is legally possible
without share alike how this interpretation looks like.
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Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/
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legal
quot;Horizontal Layers" case. Is the result
> a simple collective database?
I am not sure about the relevance of your question here. The data set
you refer to is licensed under ODbL which is permissible for OSM data
both in a collective database and a derivative database
ested) and waive the NC clause for activities that are
related to the process of digitizing data for use in OSM.
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his/her work
actually makes it into the main OSM database. In the past this has
often been a problem with specific permissions for restricted access
data. License terms or terms of use of a service should not require
mappers to take additional legal risks.
--
Christoph Hormann
http://ww
min boundaries and OSM based basemap features
instead of between the admin boundaries and your special thematic
layer.
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not get much reaction here.
In the latter case you would need to be more specific about what data
you are considering using, who produced this data and under what terms
of use it has been made available to you.
--
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/
_
The style itself however does not require attribution when used with
non-OSM data since it is CC0.
You can still render tiles using the standard style and OSM data
yourself and distribute them under something other than CC-By-SA as
long as you comply with the ODbL. But if you use those rendered b
illustrations this
database is subject to the share-alike requirements.
And note if you (as indicated in your initial inquiry) intend to license
this derivative database or a produced work to a third party that is
already a public process under the ODbL.
--
Christoph H
- yes, intent and
usefulness are significant regarding the question of independence of
the databases.
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ct
the derivative database from the original data (like when you use a
random number generator to remove random features). But if you
intermingle ODbL and proprietary data into a derivative database
publishing only the algorithm used for that is meaningless since to
reproduce the results you n
m. So if one
direction was possible without share-alike the guidelines would
essentially be irrelevant because they'd only distinguish between those
cases where you have to de-duplicate in one direction and those where
you can combine data sets freely without share-alike.
--
Christoph Horma
ures missing in OSM data or if you use OSM
data to add features missing in proprietary data - the license as i
read it is symmetric in that matter.
What i was trying to do is point out ways how you could continue doing
what you do (i.e. show both data from booking.com and from OSM in a
single appl
On Saturday 09 July 2016, Christoph Hormann wrote:
>
> I think this is a fairly clear case for the Horizontal Layers
> guideline
To avoid ambiguity: I of course meant a case where the guideline says
share-alike applies.
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Christoph Hormann
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ou however must not show any hotels that are not in OSM then or make
their coordinates available under compatible license.
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thorities of my
choosing...
Otherwise - if they don't want their data in OSM - their loss.
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e extremely unfair towards the normal individual mappers
because their attribution (which is currently the main one
behind 'OpenStreetMap Contributors') would be buried among tons of
others.
The whole idea to me seems completely impractical.
--
Christoph Hormann
htt
er direction
but at any level of certainty making one-sided statements is a
two-sided sword.
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letely
replace and
"uses either all OSM data or no OSM data for that property"
implies that a data mixture in properties changes the situation.
In other words: having precisely formulated points in parameter space
but not having limits defined in relation to th
d understanding
of the guideline.
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decision or other serious legal assessment claiming copyright
(in contrast to database rights) on pre-graphical geodata
representations under German copyright law.
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l
data from share-alike by generating a produced
work and reverse engineering data from it again.
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n these do not need to be made available of course.
So if you release a changefile that contains changes to proprietary data
which itself is not openly available this is useless and irrelevant for
share-alike.
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ky. But you
can try to avoid that.
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to the osmim
(http://maps.imagico.de/#osmim).
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Not sure if i should interpret the lack of respone as agreement to my
assessment that the data may be used as a source for OSM mapping with a
notice on the contributors page. If there are opinions to the contrary
please speak up.
--
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de
stributing or communicating GMES dedicated
data and GMES service information to the public, users shall
inform the public of the source of that data and information."
As i see it the question here can only be if the obligation to "inform
the public" is fulfilled by listin
/TC_Sentinel_Data_31072014.pdf
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rapidly increasing and the OSM community (and of course also the larger
open data community) needs to ask itself if it wants to leave this
whole field to proprietary data providers.
--
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/
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