Re: ENB: Seconds thoughts about Trilium Notes

[Matt Wilkie]

*>Trilium's weaknesses:>There is no minibuffer and no way to execute
commands by name. *

 True, but not fundamentally blocked. In the Awesome Trilium
 list is a js plugin for adding
a command-palette. I imagine it's modelled after vs-code's Ctrl-Shift-P
type-name-looking-for.

*>There are no menus! Instead, small icons must suffice*

 yeah, I'm not so fond of there being no menu at all. Mitigating that a bit
is the F1 popup quick reference for the most used keyboard shortcuts. It is
excellent.

*Trilium can not create external files. Unless I am mistaken, one can only
export nodes.*

Yes, a big difference and a lack from my perspective.

*Fundamental differences* (observed so far)*:*

Leo is plain text first, and achieves rich text and media by rendering.
Trilium is rich text and media first, with the primary entry mechanism
through the 3rd party CKEditor which saves as html. This is the
foundational split behind the whole VR and multiple panes *(pains? heheh)*
vs single pane thinking and attendant mitigation machinery. Trilium doesn't
have to think about rendering hardly at all, since it's the embedded
browser that does that.

Leo uses the file system for storage and Trilium uses sqlite. This gives
Leo its external files extended abilities very nearly for free. For Trilium
to adopt such features would be an exercise of some effort. Otoh, being
able to run sql queries across all nodes can't be anything but powerful.
(In Trilium access the SQL Console via Alt-0 or the flower logo at top
left; yeah, speaks to lack of menu).

It's this db backend which enables syncing one's entire KB across all
devices in a pretty much set-and-forget manner. It's almost as good as
Fossil SCM in this regard. This is very, very attractive.

Another Trilium limit: there's only a single knowledge database. ALL your
Trilium work is one place. There is discussion on a future with multiple db
but nothing substantive that I've seen. I'm new to the space and might be
missing the action though.)

-matt



On Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 12:50 PM Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 2:38 PM Thomas Passin wrote:
>
> The Easter Egg is the only way to expand the VR pane. An optional floating
>> VR window would solve that problem.
>>
>>
>> Here you go:
>>
>> ns = c.free_layout.get_top_splitter()
>> ns.open_window('_leo_viewrendered3')
>>
>
> Wow. Thanks for this.
>
> And thanks for all the comments. They have all been helpful.
>
> Let me summarize the discussion so far:
>
> - I'm convinced. Replacing the body pane is a *preference* *worth
> considering*.
>
> - That preference should also allow opening the VR pane as a separate
> window.
>
> - A modular architecture for the VR pane (including VR3) is a separate
> issue.
>
> I'm interested in both issues, but neither is an urgent priority.
>
> Let's continue this fruitful discussion!
>
> Edward
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: A Leo relative in the wild: Trilium Notes

[Matt Wilkie]

Wow. I thought/hoped saying a couple words about Trilium would spark a few
thoughts, but nothing like the way this thread is running. It's amazing.
Thanks all!

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A Leo relative in the wild: Trilium Notes

[Matt Wilkie]

Hello Leonistas,

I've been exploring a program the last few weeks that seems like it might
be an answer to a long felt wish: to have a Leo-like experience for editing
and managing a rich text and media notes knowledgebase. That program
is *Trilium
Notes* . It's the only application I've
encountered that uses clones in the same sense Leo does and is rooted in a
tree, branch, and node hierarchy graph. It also has executable nodes
(scripting), though unfortunately for my preferences not in python. (Oh
well, one can't ever have it all, right? ;-) I haven't had this much fun
playing with and learning a new software program since encountering Leo
I-can't-remember-how-many years ago.

I'm encountering Trilium at an awkward moment in its life: just as the
primary author is stepping aside. That said, there's a large and
enthusiastic community which has formed *Trilium Next
 *to carry things on. At present they don't
seem to have a gravity center -- imagine twenty people standing at a
doorway emitting "oh no dear madam, after you" -- I believe/hope this will
get sorted soon though.

I don't know if there will come a day when Leo and Trilium share more than
some key architectural and function design decisions, but I figure at least
the communities should be aware of each other. (I'll be composing a similar
"hey did you know about Leo?" message for the Trilium folks too).

Felix, you might be interested to know that Trilium is written in
javascript and the major effort at the moment is converting it to
typescript. They seem to be blazing along on that front. Perhaps there are
some tools or libraries that could be extracted/shared.

cheers,
-matt
 (from away)

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Leo website suspended?

[Matt Wilkie]

When I visit leoeditor.com today it redirects to
https://leoeditor.com/cgi-sys/suspendedpage.cgi

:-/

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Re: Quick steps on how I got Leo working on Windows 11

[Matt Wilkie]

 

Additional note: Refreshenv allows carrying out all commands in a single 
session. Without this opening a new CMD shell several times to catch 
changes each of the installs make is necessary.

On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 9:33:24 p.m. UTC-7 Matt Wilkie wrote:

> Thanks for the feedback!
>
> My mistake. Sudo comes with Gsudo, and I forgot I had done that. (`winget 
> install gsudo`).
>
> Installing Leo from Pypi on Py v3.12 will not work until next Leo release 
> (see https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/pull/3612 and 
> https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/issues/3615) 
> So that's also my mistake, since I specified 3.12 at the top. 
>
> -matt
>
>
> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 9:27:08 p.m. UTC-7 tbp1...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> sudo setx /M PIPX_BIN_DIR C:\bin
>>
>> Where did we get *sudo* from? Does it come with *winget*?  
>> Did this work for Leo with Python 3.12?  Because something seems to be 
>> mis-configured with what's on PyPi right now, and it doesn't work.
>>
>> On Monday, October 16, 2023 at 12:17:14 AM UTC-4 map...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Here's my recipe. Building qt and Anaconda are not needed.
>>>
>>> Installing Leo from scratch on a new machine, following my preferences, 
>>> some adjustment may be needed to match yours.
>>>
>>>  
>>> Overview 
>>>
>>> All but step 1 can be done from the command line, below.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>1. Install the winget 
>>><https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/package-manager/winget/> 
>>>command line package manager by installing App Installer 
>>><https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9NBLGGH4NNS1> from Microsoft 
>>>Store.
>>>2. Download refreshenv.cmd 
>>>
>>> <https://github.com/chocolatey/choco/blob/master/src/chocolatey.resources/redirects/RefreshEnv.cmd>
>>>  
>>>in place in PATH (optional).
>>>3. Install python launcher <https://peps.python.org/pep-0397/>, a 
>>>shortcut to all the python installs on a system.
>>>4. Install python <https://www.python.org/downloads/> from Python 
>>>Software Foundation.
>>>5. Install pipx <https://pypa.github.io/pipx/>, for managing python 
>>>programs as applications.
>>>6. Fetch Leo <https://leo-editor.github.io/leo-editor/> (choose from 
>>>pypi.org or source code)
>>>7. Install Leo
>>>8. Register Leo with Windows
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> From a CMD shell (
>>> https://gist.github.com/maphew/fe6e5c2ccbf48fc82d84b4230e476899):
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> winget install wget
>>>
>>> md c:\bin
>>>
>>> wget 
>>> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/chocolatey/choco/blob/master/src/chocolatey.resources/redirects/RefreshEnv.cmd
>>>  
>>> -O c:\bin\RefreshEnv.cmd
>>>
>>> setx /M path %path%;c:\bin
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> winget install --id Python.Launcher --exact --force
>>>
>>> winget install python.python.3.12 --location c:\apps\python
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> refreshenv
>>>
>>> py -0
>>>
>>> where python
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> sudo setx /M PIPX_BIN_DIR C:\bin
>>>
>>> sudo setx /M PIPX_HOME C:\apps\pipx
>>>
>>> c:\apps\python\python.exe -m pip install pipx
>>>
>>> c:\apps\python\python.exe -m pipx ensurepath
>>>
>>> refreshenv
>>>
>>>
>>> Choose:
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> :: Install latest stable release from pypi.org
>>>
>>> pipx install leo
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Or: 
>>>
>>> :: Or install latest development from GitHub with git
>>>
>>> pushd %userprofile%\code
>>>
>>> git clone --depth=50 --no-single-branch 
>>> https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor
>>>
>>> pipx install --editable ./leo-editor
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Or:
>>>
>>> :: Or install latest development from source code download
>>>
>>> winget install 7zip
>>>
>>> pushd %userprofile%\Downloads
>>>
>>> wget https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/archive/devel.zip
>>>
>>> 7z x devel.zip -o C:\apps
>>> pipx install --editable C:\apps\leo-editor-devel 
>>>

Re: Quick steps on how I got Leo working on Windows 11

[Matt Wilkie]

 Thanks for the feedback!

My mistake. Sudo comes with Gsudo, and I forgot I had done that. (`winget 
install gsudo`).

Installing Leo from Pypi on Py v3.12 will not work until next Leo release 
(see https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/pull/3612 and 
https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/issues/3615) 
So that's also my mistake, since I specified 3.12 at the top. 

-matt


On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 9:27:08 p.m. UTC-7 tbp1...@gmail.com wrote:

> sudo setx /M PIPX_BIN_DIR C:\bin
>
> Where did we get *sudo* from? Does it come with *winget*?  
> Did this work for Leo with Python 3.12?  Because something seems to be 
> mis-configured with what's on PyPi right now, and it doesn't work.
>
> On Monday, October 16, 2023 at 12:17:14 AM UTC-4 map...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Here's my recipe. Building qt and Anaconda are not needed.
>>
>> Installing Leo from scratch on a new machine, following my preferences, 
>> some adjustment may be needed to match yours.
>>
>>  
>> Overview 
>>
>> All but step 1 can be done from the command line, below.
>>
>>  
>>
>>1. Install the winget 
>> 
>>command line package manager by installing App Installer 
>> from Microsoft Store.
>>2. Download refreshenv.cmd 
>>
>> 
>>  
>>in place in PATH (optional).
>>3. Install python launcher , a 
>>shortcut to all the python installs on a system.
>>4. Install python  from Python 
>>Software Foundation.
>>5. Install pipx , for managing python 
>>programs as applications.
>>6. Fetch Leo  (choose from 
>>pypi.org or source code)
>>7. Install Leo
>>8. Register Leo with Windows
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> From a CMD shell (
>> https://gist.github.com/maphew/fe6e5c2ccbf48fc82d84b4230e476899):
>>
>>  
>>
>> winget install wget
>>
>> md c:\bin
>>
>> wget 
>> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/chocolatey/choco/blob/master/src/chocolatey.resources/redirects/RefreshEnv.cmd
>>  
>> -O c:\bin\RefreshEnv.cmd
>>
>> setx /M path %path%;c:\bin
>>
>>  
>>
>> winget install --id Python.Launcher --exact --force
>>
>> winget install python.python.3.12 --location c:\apps\python
>>
>>  
>>
>> refreshenv
>>
>> py -0
>>
>> where python
>>
>>  
>>
>> sudo setx /M PIPX_BIN_DIR C:\bin
>>
>> sudo setx /M PIPX_HOME C:\apps\pipx
>>
>> c:\apps\python\python.exe -m pip install pipx
>>
>> c:\apps\python\python.exe -m pipx ensurepath
>>
>> refreshenv
>>
>>
>> Choose:
>>
>>  
>>
>> :: Install latest stable release from pypi.org
>>
>> pipx install leo
>>
>>  
>>
>> Or: 
>>
>> :: Or install latest development from GitHub with git
>>
>> pushd %userprofile%\code
>>
>> git clone --depth=50 --no-single-branch 
>> https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor
>>
>> pipx install --editable ./leo-editor
>>
>>  
>>
>> Or:
>>
>> :: Or install latest development from source code download
>>
>> winget install 7zip
>>
>> pushd %userprofile%\Downloads
>>
>> wget https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/archive/devel.zip
>>
>> 7z x devel.zip -o C:\apps
>> pipx install --editable C:\apps\leo-editor-devel 
>>
>>  
>>
>> Resume
>>
>>
>> pipx inject leo websockets
>>
>>
>> leo-messages --version
>>
>>  
>>
>> :: run Leo to create profile and related, and then exit
>>
>> Leo
>>
>>  
>>
>> :: Register Leo with Windows 
>>
>> leo-m 
>> --script=C:\apps\pipx\venvs\leo\Lib\site-packages\leo\scripts\add-desktop-links.leox
>>
>> leo-m 
>> --script=C:\apps\pipx\venvs\leo\Lib\site-packages\leo\scripts\win\register-leo.leox
>>
>>  
>> Notes 
>>
>> Python, pipx, and Leo are installed globally outside of user profile 
>> directory tree.
>>
>> Several listed commands are optional. For example `where python` is 
>> merely a sanity check to see it it's in PATH and what folder it's in.
>>
>>
>> Pipx is for installing python programs in their own virtual environment, 
>> so they behave like regular programs that can have independent python 
>> versions and depencies from other python programs. It's lighter weight than 
>> conda  and simpler than managing venvs 
>>  directly.
>>
>>
>> Registering Leo with Windows can be done interactively via "Leo menu >> 
>> Settings >> Open desktop integration".
>>
>>
>> Websockets is optional, it's for using LeoInteg extension in Visual 
>> Studio Code.
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> -matt
>>
>> On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 8:09:53 a.m. UTC-7 Satheesh Vattekkat 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I had python 3.12 installed via scoop already. That failed at PyQt5 
>>> installation needing vs build tools. That’s when I tried with Anaconda. 
>>> Will need to check if scoop installs python 

Re: Quick steps on how I got Leo working on Windows 11

[Matt Wilkie]

Here's my recipe. Building qt and Anaconda are not needed.

Installing Leo from scratch on a new machine, following my preferences, 
some adjustment may be needed to match yours.

 
Overview 

All but step 1 can be done from the command line, below.

 

   1. Install the winget 
    
   command line package manager by installing App Installer 
    from Microsoft Store.
   2. Download refreshenv.cmd 
   

 
   in place in PATH (optional).
   3. Install python launcher , a 
   shortcut to all the python installs on a system.
   4. Install python  from Python 
   Software Foundation.
   5. Install pipx , for managing python 
   programs as applications.
   6. Fetch Leo  (choose from 
   pypi.org or source code)
   7. Install Leo
   8. Register Leo with Windows

 

 

>From a CMD shell (
https://gist.github.com/maphew/fe6e5c2ccbf48fc82d84b4230e476899):

 

winget install wget

md c:\bin

wget 
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/chocolatey/choco/blob/master/src/chocolatey.resources/redirects/RefreshEnv.cmd
 
-O c:\bin\RefreshEnv.cmd

setx /M path %path%;c:\bin

 

winget install --id Python.Launcher --exact --force

winget install python.python.3.12 --location c:\apps\python

 

refreshenv

py -0

where python

 

sudo setx /M PIPX_BIN_DIR C:\bin

sudo setx /M PIPX_HOME C:\apps\pipx

c:\apps\python\python.exe -m pip install pipx

c:\apps\python\python.exe -m pipx ensurepath

refreshenv


Choose:

 

:: Install latest stable release from pypi.org

pipx install leo

 

Or: 

:: Or install latest development from GitHub with git

pushd %userprofile%\code

git clone --depth=50 --no-single-branch 
https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor

pipx install --editable ./leo-editor

 

Or:

:: Or install latest development from source code download

winget install 7zip

pushd %userprofile%\Downloads

wget https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/archive/devel.zip

7z x devel.zip -o C:\apps
pipx install --editable C:\apps\leo-editor-devel 

 

Resume


pipx inject leo websockets


leo-messages --version

 

:: run Leo to create profile and related, and then exit

Leo

 

:: Register Leo with Windows 

leo-m 
--script=C:\apps\pipx\venvs\leo\Lib\site-packages\leo\scripts\add-desktop-links.leox

leo-m 
--script=C:\apps\pipx\venvs\leo\Lib\site-packages\leo\scripts\win\register-leo.leox

 
Notes 

Python, pipx, and Leo are installed globally outside of user profile 
directory tree.

Several listed commands are optional. For example `where python` is merely 
a sanity check to see it it's in PATH and what folder it's in.


Pipx is for installing python programs in their own virtual environment, so 
they behave like regular programs that can have independent python versions 
and depencies from other python programs. It's lighter weight than conda 
 and simpler than managing venvs 
 directly.


Registering Leo with Windows can be done interactively via "Leo menu >> 
Settings >> Open desktop integration".


Websockets is optional, it's for using LeoInteg extension in Visual Studio 
Code.




-matt

On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 8:09:53 a.m. UTC-7 Satheesh Vattekkat 
wrote:

>
> I had python 3.12 installed via scoop already. That failed at PyQt5 
> installation needing vs build tools. That’s when I tried with Anaconda. 
> Will need to check if scoop installs python from python.org or not.
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 7:31:44 PM UTC+5:30 tbp1...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I'd say this is how to get it installed using Anaconda, which apparently 
>> is not the same as using Python from python.org.  For one thing, using 
>> python.org you don't have to install build tools to build pyqt5 (and 
>> note that Leo will also work with pyqt6) - pip installs a pre-built 
>> package. 
>>
>> On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 9:02:27 AM UTC-4 Satheesh Vattekkat 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Got a new Windows 11 laptop and since I haven't used Windows for a 
>>> while, had to spend some time getting Leo to be installed. Ran into few 
>>> problems along the way - in Linux and OSX it was always a breeze.
>>>
>>> Added what finally worked for me as a gist, if it helps anyone.
>>>
>>> https://gist.github.com/vsbabu/60c85bc61d014df8b7fefb727028c4bb
>>>
>>> Note that this may not be the most elegant way on Windows, but I am no 
>>> Windows expert :) 
>>>
>>> I am running this directly from git cloned directory rather than 
>>> installing that as a pip and then running it. I do a git pull daily and so 
>>> far it is all working good for last 3 days.
>>>
>>> HTH
>>>
>>

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Re: Problem running Leo after installing Python 3.12

[Matt Wilkie]

There is also a problem with Windows-Curses and py 3.12:
https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/issues/3603

(Hello everyone!)
On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 4:12:14 a.m. UTC-7 lewis wrote:

> I have PyQt6 installed but it is v6.5.2
> See 
> https://www.riverbankcomputing.com/pipermail/pyqt/2023-October/045542.html
>
> On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 10:03:51 PM UTC+11 Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
>
> Yes, you must install Qt.
>
> #3604  suggests 
> improving this message.
>
> Edward
>
>

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Re: Leo is (and should be) complete

[Matt Wilkie]

I feel very lucky to have serendipitously chosen this month to peek back in 
at Leo and see what's happening! I echo Offray's comment that even though 
Leo occupies a smaller portion of my activity these days it's imprint on my 
mind and perception is permanent and abiding. Thank you Edward for all the 
work you've done and shared with us. You're willingness to think out loud 
and share your process of working through things in public via the mailng 
list at least as valuable as the code and application themselves to me. I 
count you and the Leo community among my mentors.

-matt


On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 9:18:43 a.m. UTC-7 off...@riseup.net wrote:

> I join to Thomas' thanks. As I said, Leo and this community has been an 
> important source of inspiration and I'm happy to be part of it since near 
> 2005 and despite not being much active now that I use other languages 
> (Pharo, Lua, Nim) Leo's mark continue in my way of thinking documents and 
> computing metasystems.
>
> Offray
> On 14/09/22 7:34, Thomas Passin wrote:
>
> It sounds like retiring all over again.  There are a lot of folks who are 
> very happy that you've stuck to it those 30 years!  Thank you.
>
> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 6:51:43 AM UTC-4 Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
>> At 5 am this morning, I declared the last Leo issue to be complete. I do 
>> not foresee significant changes to Leo in the future. See below.
>>
>> Today is an intensely happy/sad moment for me. Leo has been my life for 
>> well over 30 years. I have no idea what I shall do next. I have 
>> deliberately put off those considerations until now.
>>
>> *Why stability matters*
>>
>> Imo, Leo (the python app) is no longer the leading edge of the Leonine 
>> world. That honor belongs to leoInteg 
>> , a plugin for vs-code, written by 
>> Félix Malboeuf. leoInteg communicates with Leo using Leo's server, 
>> leoserver.py.
>>
>> *Leo's stability doesn't matter much for leoInteg*. Leo's server is 
>> flexible and could accommodate significant changes to Leo.
>>
>> However, Félix is now working on leoJS , 
>> an all-Typescript plugin for vs-code. leoJS promises significant 
>> performance improvements over leoInteg. There is no need to wait for 
>> results from leoserver.py!
>>
>> *Leo's stability matters very much for leoJS*. Félix is transliterating 
>> (literally line by line) Leo's python code into Typescript. It's a big job, 
>> but he is already well along. Changing Leo's code base would make 
>> additional work for Félix.
>>
>> *Summary*
>>
>> Today is a milestone for Leo and for me. It's an intensely happy/sad 
>> moment.
>>
>> Imo, leoInteg and leoJS are now the leading edges of the Leonine world. 
>> These two vs-code plugins offer all the advantages of vs-code plus all of 
>> Leo's unique features.
>>
>> I want to keep Leo's code stable so that Félix will not have to revise 
>> his transliterated Typescript code.
>>
>> Edward
>>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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where does "leo_auto_file" come from?

[Matt Wilkie]

*follow up from 
https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/issues/2824#issuecomment-1241276950 
so as not to awaken a closed issue:*

"I checked my Windows registry entry for the *.leo* class, and I have it as 
*leo_auto_file*. I don't remember setting that up, but the 
*shell/open/command* entry points to Leo's git directory on my machine, so 
it must have been me that did it. It's just that *leo_auto_file* doesn't 
seem like the kind of name I would have made up. Funny..."

*_auto_file* associations are created by Windows when a person 
2x-clicks on an unknown filetype and then selects "Always use this app to 
open ..."

[image: always-open-with.png]

>From the command line they can be managed with assoc 
and ftype 
commands.

-matt

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Re: Leo deployment on Windows - past story, current story

[Matt Wilkie]

pip install without *--editable* leaves out some files from Leo's root 
folder. This doesn't stop Leo from working but can be annoying if you try 
to do one fo the things that needs them. I'm hazy in the details. It's 
talked about somewhere in the mailing list archive and Github issues. It 
couldn't be solved without reorganizing Leo's source code tree. (Or: I 
couldn't solve back then, maybe someone has come up with a solution since).

I like your idea of having a different icon and shortcut for dev version. 

-matt
On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 8:46:35 p.m. UTC-7 tbp1...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> I don't install from my git clone, and I don't install with --editable.  
> Instead, I pip-install Leo, whatever version that may be.  This brings in 
> the dependencies that Leo needs.  I run Leo using my git clone by setting 
> the PYTHONPATH variable to point to the clone's directory.  I then run Leo 
> using python3 -m leo.core.runLeo.
>
> In practice, I set the PYTHONPATH environmental variable and issue the run 
> command using a tiny batch file that I call *py-leo-git*.  It's not hard 
> to create a launch icon for this batch file, so I can have a Leo icon that 
> launches the clone version.
>
> I feel that this approach gives me the maximum simplicity and flexibility, 
> and I don't have to remember what's been installed with *--editable* or 
> whatever.  I also don't have to remember what the heck things like 
> *--editable* do.  I can never keep it straight.
>
> When I wanted to start trying out PyQt6 (Leo was already running with 
> PyQt5), I pip-installed it but then moved the entire PyQt6 directory 
> somewhere outside the Python tree.  When I wanted to use it, I added its 
> directory to the PYTHONPATH, and when I didn't, I just omitted it from the 
> PYTHONPATH.  My batch file adds the clone's directory to whatever 
> PYTHONPATH is already set, so this approach runs the clone version no 
> matter where else I've set PYTHONPATH to.
>
> On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 6:44:42 PM UTC-4 map...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I'm popping into the Leo group for a brief dip after a long time away 
>> (distracting myself from work I don't like by visiting a place with fond 
>> memories and good people). I intended only to lurk, but I can't stop myself 
>> from saying "thank you David!" for this cogent and outstanding summary.
>>
>> I too am continually drawn back to the Fossil and SQLite projects, even 
>> though they remain a poor fit for who Iam and what I work with. I re-read ' 
>> SQLite 
>> As An Application File Format  ' 
>> every year or so and crawl through Fossil forum every few weeks. I wish it 
>> or me were just a bit different. 
>>
>> Re: conda: It would make certain things easier to have a Leo conda 
>> package but it's not essential. This is my current install Leo on new 
>> machine recipe, it's still too many steps and too technical to be an 
>> installer but at least it's easy to repeat.
>>
>>1. Install miniconda (preferably using Scoop or Chocolately)
>>2. Create Leo environment
>>3. Conda install pip (which installs Python and other essentials)
>>4. Download Leo source code archive, or git clone same
>>5. Pip install Leo
>>
>> scoop install --global miniconda3
>> conda config --add channels conda-forge
>> conda config --set channel_priority strict 
>> conda create -n Leo
>> conda activate Leo
>> conda install pip
>>
>> Install Leo without Git:
>>
>> scoop install wget
>> wget https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/archive/devel.zip
>> 7z x devel.zip -o C:\apps
>> pip install --editable C:\apps\leo-editor-devel 
>>
>> Install Leo with Git:
>>
>> pushd C:\apps 
>> git clone --single-branch -b devel --depth=100 
>> https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor.git
>> pip install --editable leo-editor 
>>
>> Wrap up: Run Leo >> Menu: Settings >> Desktop Integration >> 
>> [register-leo], [add-desktop-links]
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> On Saturday, May 22, 2021 at 8:18:23 p.m. UTC-7 David Szent-Györgyi wrote:
>>
>>> I've written 
>>> of 
>>> the need to discuss the deployment stories on Windows, macOS, various Unix 
>>> distributions, various Linux distributions. Before this discussion begins, 
>>> one must consider that there are multiple implementations of Python. For 
>>> the moment, I'm limiting my comments to CPython running native on Windows. 
>>>
>>> *Context: *The last time I worked on an installer for Leo or any other 
>>> package, Leo 4.3 was the current release, and came with a single-file 
>>> installer built using NSIS. That installer was for Windows only. NSIS as it 
>>> stood then was flexible as it saw use in many projects, but its use was 
>>> somewhat arcane. My work was aimed at supporting per-user installations of 
>>> CPython as well as shared installations, and installing per-user and 
>>> system-wide installations of Leo on top of 

Re: Leo deployment on Windows - past story, current story

[Matt Wilkie]

I'm popping into the Leo group for a brief dip after a long time away 
(distracting myself from work I don't like by visiting a place with fond 
memories and good people). I intended only to lurk, but I can't stop myself 
from saying "thank you David!" for this cogent and outstanding summary.

I too am continually drawn back to the Fossil and SQLite projects, even 
though they remain a poor fit for who Iam and what I work with. I re-read ' 
SQLite 
As An Application File Format  ' 
every year or so and crawl through Fossil forum every few weeks. I wish it 
or me were just a bit different. 

Re: conda: It would make certain things easier to have a Leo conda package 
but it's not essential. This is my current install Leo on new machine 
recipe, it's still too many steps and too technical to be an installer but 
at least it's easy to repeat.

   1. Install miniconda (preferably using Scoop or Chocolately)
   2. Create Leo environment
   3. Conda install pip (which installs Python and other essentials)
   4. Download Leo source code archive, or git clone same
   5. Pip install Leo
   
scoop install --global miniconda3
conda config --add channels conda-forge
conda config --set channel_priority strict 
conda create -n Leo
conda activate Leo
conda install pip

Install Leo without Git:

scoop install wget
wget https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/archive/devel.zip
7z x devel.zip -o C:\apps
pip install --editable C:\apps\leo-editor-devel 

Install Leo with Git:

pushd C:\apps 
git clone --single-branch -b devel --depth=100 
https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor.git
pip install --editable leo-editor 

Wrap up: Run Leo >> Menu: Settings >> Desktop Integration >> 
[register-leo], [add-desktop-links]

Cheers,

Matt

On Saturday, May 22, 2021 at 8:18:23 p.m. UTC-7 David Szent-Györgyi wrote:

> I've written 
> of 
> the need to discuss the deployment stories on Windows, macOS, various Unix 
> distributions, various Linux distributions. Before this discussion begins, 
> one must consider that there are multiple implementations of Python. For 
> the moment, I'm limiting my comments to CPython running native on Windows. 
>
> *Context: *The last time I worked on an installer for Leo or any other 
> package, Leo 4.3 was the current release, and came with a single-file 
> installer built using NSIS. That installer was for Windows only. NSIS as it 
> stood then was flexible as it saw use in many projects, but its use was 
> somewhat arcane. My work was aimed at supporting per-user installations of 
> CPython as well as shared installations, and installing per-user and 
> system-wide installations of Leo on top of system-wide installations of 
> CPython; my hope was that the two flavors of per-user support would ease 
> the work of side-by-side testing of multiple CPython releases and multiple 
> Leo releases. By the time I had something to share with Edward, Windows 
> Vista had brought the headaches of UAC dialog boxes that were the user 
> interface for tightened security, and I had not touched those. Edward was 
> already burdened by maintenance of the Windows XP-savvy installer script 
> that NSIS compiles. It's possible that my work only promised more 
> installer-related work for him, but it's Edward's right to comment on that 
> if he wishes to. 
>
> Contrast that with the current requirements under Windows:
>
>- 
>
>CPython;
>- 
>
>Qt, whose publisher has restricted access to the LTS releases to 
>paying customers, which forces non-commercial users to track development 
>versions that are released every six months; 
>- 
>
>Git, or another source code management tool that speaks enough Git to 
>pull from GitHub; 
>- 
>
>Leo's devel branch on GitHub, which mingles Leo's core with Leo's 
>plugins, some of which are clearly essential to leo as it stands.
>
> What are the installer stories for each of these? 
>
>- 
>
>CPython comes with an installer,  one that supports setups for the 
>individual user and for all users. 
>- 
>
>The changes to Qt distribution are no gift to a project like Leo, if 
>my guess about the limits to Edward's ability to scale are as accurate as 
>my knowledge of my own. 
>- 
>
>Git, I can't speak to. It has arrived since I had spare time to 
>develop software, even limiting development to my narrow requirements.  
>- 
>
>Following Leo's devel branch on GitHub seems to require following 
>discussions among its developers here on Leo-editor. The supportive 
>responses of the people here are a major plus. 
>
> What are the usage stories for each of these? 
>
> *Cpython.* The current release of CPython is 3.9.5. Its installer 
> supports installation for the current and for all users. It supports access 
> to the pip 

Re: ch ch changes

[Matt Wilkie]

And thank you also in turn Edward! You welcomed and advised on my first 
fumbling attempts, and other similarly not-great ones afterwards until I 
reached stable enough ground to meaningful things. As did Terry and Ville 
and Kent and Jacob and a host of others I am failing to recall at the 
moment (sorry!) but whose assistance granted me courage and license to stay 
and keep trying.

-matt

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ch ch changes

[Matt Wilkie]

Hello Edward and Leo community,

As you've noticed I've kind of dropped out of Leo participation this
summer. My life seems to have arrived on a pivot and I don't know what
might happen next. Leo remains close to my heart and I still have active
leonine dreams knocking about in my brain to bring into manifestation, but
attention on things computery outside of work is on the wane. It might be a
short season of laying fallow or something longer. I just don't know.

The Leo Editor group is a fantastic community. I've learned a great many
things in here, on and off topic, for which I am deeply appreciative. Thank
you all!

Please do feel free to cc: my email with any questions about anything I've
put into the commons. I'm committed to paying attention to the next release
or two in case the pypi.org and related packaging need tending.

With warm regards,

-Matt

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Re: Install and use Leointeg with Anaconda python

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> Leointeg's Python Command configuration set to python and Running the 
> extension with the Server and Extension option are mutually exclusive: I 
> have not explained those concepts clearly - and as I wanted to give more 
> options for tester than less, it seems people are mix and matching those 
> methods of starting the server in erroneous ways.
>
>
> So to clarify: if you're running the extension with the "Server and 
> Extension", then, the python command could be set to 'potato' it wouldn't 
> matter because it's not used then.
>

Ahhh!  the light dawns, thanks!

I don't know if these are helpful at all, but I wrote some Leo script 
buttons to start, stop & list Vitalije's history tracer extension from 
inside Leo. The tracer server runs as external background process. 
https://gist.github.com/maphew/9c2b505f5f550f8b674058bb71b2cb60 for the 
current code, and intro thread here 

.

-matt


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Re: 23:15 video, "A Tour of Acme (2012)" by Russ Cox

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> wow. the linked Acme paper by Rob Pike is one for the permanent library, 
> to be read and re-read. haven't watched the video yet, but now I *have* 
> to! Published 1994 and I feel like I'm reading something from 2014 or 2024 
> (willfully stepping over some of the more obvious era-specific references).
>
> Surprised?  I mean, it sure seems like recent generations of developers 
> just keep making the same old mistakes, and then ultimately reinventing the 
> same stuff that folks did back in the day.  Not a profession that learns 
> from the past.
>

Surprised? Well yes, as evidenced by the 'wow's, and no, as this is one 
more in  a number of historic things still not evident in today's world. 
Today being a moving lens, some things in focus and most others not. I 
started my computing experience circa 1992. There are things from then 
absent now that I still miss regularly. But back to the why 'wow' here: 
it's some of the interaction concepts which are completely new to me.

Edward said *"I may have missed something truly interesting in this video. 
If so, please tell me exactly what it is."*

For me the video was rewarding after reading the acme paper 
[https://research.swtch.com/acme.pdf]. (Generally I find watching videos of 
other people driving a computer painful.) I think the two are best together 
and not in isolation.

Specific things that made me sit up and pay attention:

Middle click: whatever is selected are the command(s) to execute. It's akin 
to Leo's Ctrl-B execute script command but powered up so that it works 
everywhere, not just the body pane.

Right click is search for 'selected text', but how the search happens is 
context aware. If it's a path and the file exists, open it. If selection is 
a filename and a line number, open to that line. If  selection doesn't 
exist search for it generally. (Presumably across all open documents. Or 
something. There's more here that I didn't catch.)

Acme as a file system command object: `path/to/acme` is the program. 
`path/to/acme/copy ...` is conceptually akin to running `acme --copy 
{parameters}`. I imagine clones-find-all-flattened being called like 
`/bin/leo/cff {search pattern}`. The caller could be just an interactive 
command shell prompt or a program like vscode.

Output of commands/programs get their own panels in Acme automatically. 
(Flipping between Leo's log pane and shell console to catch messages is a 
constant low grade friction. Foreseeing ahead of time I need to declare 
print() or g.es() for process x  instead of just "gimme everything that 
happens" is mental work I consistently fail at.)

There's something about how the Undo/Redo stack is implemented that seems 
ingenious and stable. Admittedly this part is outside my ken; I'm a user 
and not much of a developer.

The constrained yet flexible window layout is intriguing. It appears very 
easy to arrange and manipulate dynamically as one works.

There are many more subtleties I can sense just beyond my grasp. There's 
only so far one can go in understanding without trying it, obviously. Like 
Leo and tree organization, external files, and clones.

-matt

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Re: 23:15 video, "A Tour of Acme (2012)" by Russ Cox

[Matt Wilkie]

wow. the linked Acme paper by Rob Pike is one for the permanent library, to 
be read and re-read. haven't watched the video yet, but now I *have* to! 
Published 1994 and I feel like I'm reading something from 2014 or 2024 
(willfully stepping over some of the more obvious era-specific references).

wow.

-matt

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Re: Install and use Leointeg with Anaconda python

[Matt Wilkie]

> I just noticed you ran "npm audit fix" after running "npm install" so i'm 
> not sure what dependency might have been raised to a version that might be 
> problematic.
>

Interesting. The first time I ran `npm install` in red text it reported 320 
vulnerabilities 70 of which were severe. (I neglected to capture the log, 
so the 70 number is not exact.) 

I removed `leointeg\node_modules` and ran npm install again. This time it 
reported only 11 low severity vulnerabilities:

added 1034 packages from 542 contributors and audited 1104 packages in 
47.144s

17 packages are looking for funding
  run `npm fund` for details

found 11 low severity vulnerabilities
  run `npm audit fix` to fix them, or `npm audit` for details


After this there is no change to the previous reported behaviour.
 

> Also, (as stated elsewhere), I also forgot to mention Leo's devel branch 
> should be used with Leo, for multi-file support, until it's next release.
>

Good to know. I am using Leo devel branch with leointeg, but heretofore 
that was by habit and not intention. ;-) 


Many thanks again! 
>
 
You're welcome. Thanks for introducing me to vscode. Before now I had 
ignored it as I'm happy enough with the tools I know (Leo, Notepad++, 
Pyzo). Vscode has much to recommend it, and I'm happy to be exploring that 
first hand.

-matt

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Install and use Leointeg with Anaconda python

[Matt Wilkie]

*My notes from getting vscode and Leointeg working today. Both tools are 
completely new to me.*

Chocolatey and Miniconda/Anaconda setup recipe for leointeg, a plugin to 
enable Visual Studio Code to use Leo Editor as an engine for working with 
outlines and nodes and clones.  

 

Starting point: a Win10 admin command prompt with Chocolatey installer, 
Conda, and Git in PATH.  I pinned python to 3.6 as that is Leo's current 
minimum python version. Adjust to suit your preference.

 

Admin prompt

 

:: Install Visual Studio Code & python support, Node.js

choco install vscode vscode-python nodejs

 

Normal command prompt:

 

:: Create anaconda environment for Leo & Leo-integ

conda create -n vscode-leo

conda activate vscode-leo

conda install python=3.6

 

:: Install Leo & dependencies

pushd code

pip install --editor .\leo-editor

 

:: Install Leointeg python dependencies

pip install websockets

 

:: Install Leointeg & Node.js dependencies

git clone https://github.com/boltex/leointeg

cd leointeg

npm install

npm audit fix

 

Run vscode

 

Open Folder >> path\to\leointeg

"This workspace has extension recommendations" >> Install All

 

Open command pallete [Ctrl-Shift-P]

   - type "select inter" and chose "Python: Select interpreter" from the 
   list. Status bar will indicate search for and caching of python 
   environments, followed by list of conda environments. >> Choose the 
   leointeg one, e.g.

 

c:\tools\miniconda3\envs\vscode-leo\python.exe

 

   - Using same technique, change 'Default Terminal' to Command Prompt 
   instead of Powershell. (Apparently if you use Powershell there's more 
   manual things to do.)

 

Run Extension 

   - [Ctrl-Shift-D] to open debugger side panel, then
   - Press play button (right pointing green triangle) - [F5]

 

Vscode will open a new window in foreground. The background vscode window 
should have a highlighted bottom status bar and show the leointeg conda 
python environment.

  

The foreground window should be titled "Extension Development Host". From 
it Open Folder and point to your Leo stuff. A "Welcome to Leointeg" page 
opens.
 

Switch back to the original vscode window. Open a terminal in vscode 
[Ctrl-Shift-`] and start the leobridge server manually.

 

python leobridgeserver.py

 

Now switch to the dev host and in left hand menu >> Leo Integration >> 
[Connect to Server].

 

When connection is established an [Open Leo File] button should replace 
[Connect to Server].

 

….

 

*When things don't work, look to the [Debug Console] panel in the original 
Vscode window. *

 

*What seems to be needed in every new vscode session:*

 

   1. *Selecting the python interpreter*
   2. *Running "python leobridgsever.py" *

 

*I'm confident there's a way to automate this, somewhere.*

 

 

Sources

   - How to run the Leointeg extension: 
   https://github.com/boltex/leointeg/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md
   - Setting and using Python environments in Vscode: 
   https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/python/environments

 

 

 

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Re: Recipe for Converting Markdown To Libre Office Files Using Pandoc

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> I'm not sure what you want here.  How should this differ from any other 
>> issue posted to GitHub?
>>
>
> It would have the label "Info".
>

Info "issues" are documentation or tips and tricks. See 
https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3AInfo

Arguably these would be better as wiki pages so that the total number of 
open issues is not inflated, making it look like there are more problems 
than there are. We tried having them in wiki pages before, on a couple of 
different platforms, but they suffered from an "they're out there in the 
storage shed" problem: too far from the regular conversation, and 
consequently neglected.

-matt

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Re: Second round of comments re leointeg

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> I deleted everything , and found a solution at 
> http://leoeditor.com/installing.html#installing-leo-from-sources-all-platforms
>  with *git clone --single-branch -b devel --depth=200 
> https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor.git*
>

> This gave me a new repo that is on the 'devel' branch! (this inverted the 
> problem : its the only branch it seems to be aware of when i do "git branch 
> -r" )
>
>
That should be *"git clone --no-single-branch ..."* to avoid the problem. 
And, the instructions on that page are my doing. I'll update shortly.

 

> *EDIT - FOUND BEST SOLUTION: Adds a remote branch to a shallow cloned 
> repository ! Hurray! :** git remote set-branches origin 'devel' *
>

Excellent, and, FYI, you can use ` git remote set-branches origin '*' ` to 
enable all branches on a single-branch clone.

Git is really amazing, I love what it does for us. I rather resent all the 
arcana I've been forced to learn though!

-matt



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Re: Portable Python/Leo for Windows

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> I did have to edit the batch file paths from f:\ to e:\ because the mount 
> name of the drive was different on the two computers.  I haven't come up 
> with a way to adapt to the change in drive letter except by editing the 
> batch file, sorry to say.


If using CMD (as opposed to Powershell) use %~dp0

%0 - name of bat file (or call :label)
%~ - trigger expansion features
%~d - drive letter
%~p - path
%~n - filename
%~x - file extension

%~dpnx0 - fully qualified path and file name of currently executing batch 
file.

See https://ss64.com/nt/syntax-args.html for more

-matt

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Re: Portable Python/Leo for Windows

[Matt Wilkie]

 
>
> I thought that Matt made a self contained installer for Leo, though I 
> wasn't too clear about it.  Maybe I didn't understand.  Using an installer 
> wouldn't necessarily get you a portable version of Leo, though.
>


Thomas built a portable python environment that happens to contain Leo. I 
built a portable Leo environment that contains enough python (as libraries) 
to run Leo.

It's an unfortunate but easy to understand confusion as the name of the 
tool that makes the package ends with "installer", but the output isn't an 
installer but a self contained executable package (that can be fed to an 
install maker like NSIS). Maybe I should rename this mini project to make 
the distinction clearer.

-matt


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All in one Leo for Windows package

[Matt Wilkie]

We have an automaticly built
* All-in-one Leo for Windows package.*


Getting to the archive in order to download is a bit of work though as 
there isn't a stable url (yet).


Getting to the latest leo.exe:

   1. Navigate to *Actions*
   2. Select *Pyinstaller* from workflow list in the left table of contents 
   (url: 
   https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/actions?query=workflow%3APyinstaller
   )
   3. Look for a recent event with a green checkmark and click on it
   4. Look for *Artifacts* heading and under it: *leo-windows-exe* in blue
   5. Download the zip and unpack wherever you like, e.g. C:\apps
   6. Run C:\Apps\Leo\leo.exe
   
[image: image] 




*Upgrading in place:*

   1. Download source archive from Github repository, *devel branch*.
   2. Replace contents of `C:\Apps\leo\*leo*\*.*` with contents of 
   `leo-editor\*leo*\*.*`. (Note: the nested "leo\leo" folder structure is 
   significant.)

Leo tracking issue (please open new issues for anything not already in the 
to-do list): https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/issues/1589


Enjoy :)

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Re: Push to Leo Repo Failed with error:Protected branch update failed for refs/heads/devel.

[Matt Wilkie]

Yeah that was me, good to have it in our record for how to undo also, thank 
you.

During the long saga, someone - was it Matt? - suggested removing the 
> credentials helper from git so that user/pw would be required for each 
> push.  I did that.  Now that it's all working, I was able to restore the 
> helper and I don't need to provide them each time.  On Windows, here's the 
> command I used:
>
> git config --global credential.helper manager
>
> I found it on this Stack Exchange thread:
>
>  https://stackoverflow.com/questions/15381198/remove-credentials-from-git 
> 
>
>

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Re: Newbie Aha re Hypothesis draw

[Matt Wilkie]

an Aha! that sparked an echoing Haha!

and filed away for future reference :)

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Re: Push to Leo Repo Failed with error:Protected branch update failed for refs/heads/devel.

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> And finally, I succeeded in pushing the latest version of VR3 to Leo's devel 
> branch. 
>

Yay!! :)

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Re: Push to Leo Repo Failed with error:Protected branch update failed for refs/heads/devel.

[Matt Wilkie]

Thomas I made some more Leo Editor org and member changes. Please try 
pushing again, with a new file that doesn't already exist in the repo.

-matt

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github team member changes

[Matt Wilkie]

Hello Leo Devs,

I've been working with Github Support and Edward on sorting out why Thomas 
is having troubles pushing code changes to the Leo-editor repository on 
Github. We may be near to solving that, but that's not the purpose of this 
message, namely: 

The github Leo Editor organisation  (not the 
leo-editor 
repo ) members of the Core Team 
have had their 
status changed. Github has changed how teams work and members' permissions 
bits have been changed to match the new model. I believe I've set them so 
that the change is basically invisible, everyone should still be able to do 
what they were before -- commit to any repo under the org, create new 
public repos, administer issues. However if anyone finds they can't do 
something they used to be able to please let me know and I'll rectify it.

cheers,

-matt

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Re: a portable Leo.exe, maybe

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> This would have to be Windows only, wouldn't it?  All the packagers I 
> looked at recently could make a self-contained package for just one kind  
> of OS.  Of course, that's not a surprise!
>

It's being built with Pyinstaller, which has doc sections for Mac and 
Linux. I haven't tried to go through those parts yet.

-matt

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a portable Leo.exe, maybe

[Matt Wilkie]

Hi Folks,

I'm taking a run at creating a single executable package of Leo that can be 
unpacked on any machine and just run, no installing!

Only Windows 64bit so far. Initial results are promising, but much testing 
still needed. First working draft with commit 1579844 

 
and resulting exe in a google drive folder: 
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1eOekkp53j1dPb3ewDhW5TAuNgrAeKzWm

   1. Download leo-devel-2020-05-06-11-19.zip (140mb)
   2. unpack it somewhere, say C:\apps\Leo
   3. run c:\apps\leo\leo.exe

Report any successes and failures (open new issues on github).

cheers,

-matt

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Re: ENB: rethinking Model/View/Controller split in Leo

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> In a week or so, I'd like to do some teleconferencing with Edward, (not 
>> Zoom, but something with the ability to share computer screens), so I can 
>> do a show and tell on some of the stuff in Leo I'm working on.
>>
>> Actually, Zoom does let you share your screen.  The host can let any 
> participant take control, and they can share their screen.
>

If it's Zoom in particular you're looking to avoid Jitsi is worth 
investigating:
https://meet.jit.si/

-matt
 

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Re: Push to Leo Repo Failed with error:Protected branch update failed for refs/heads/devel.

[Matt Wilkie]

hmmm, not sure what's going on here. How about try adding a new file that 
will have no prior history. It can be a blank do nothing thing that we 
remove later.

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Re: ENB: rethinking Model/View/Controller split in Leo

[Matt Wilkie]

> >>> I've never had a problem with the term as used in Leo.  To me, it 
> conveys 1) that a (clone) node looks different from another because it 
> appears in a different place, but 2) if you look closer, it's exactly the 
> same inside. 
>
> I'm not saying that the term that the term should be abandoned, just that 
> it should have the points that you see, mentioned more explicitly in the 
> documentation.  Personally, my understanding of cloning from biology lead 
> me astray.
>

For me I found your contrast of clone as it's used in biology and as it's 
used in Leo useful. The term portal, not as generally communicative to the 
world as is clone in my opinion, is helpful in this conversation. I've not 
thought of a better word or short phrase than clone though. I definitely 
like the visuals of portals and corridors. After today I might foreverafter 
hear the Star Trek transporter sound effect when using "goto any clone" 
command. ;-)

-matt

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Re: [qubes-users] Removing Template VMs?

[Matt Wilkie]

looks like posted to wrong mailing list Viktor :)

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Re: Question related to 'Installing Leo with Git'?

[Matt Wilkie]

Doc fixes are always welcome! Good documentation is hard and rarely done 
well alone.

Is there anything specific to Leo, that should be considered in addition to 
> the available information on GitHub on how to deliver PRs?
>

Nothing that I can think of. Anything that might bere there can be sorted 
out during the PR review process.

-matt

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Re: ENB: About Leo's outline redraw code

[Matt Wilkie]

It is inspiring to see people with deep skills and experience willing to 
engage in hard conversations and explore where to go next, to not drop out 
of the game or flame up when confrontation arises.

-matt

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"Sh" subprocess replacement removed from Leo's repo

[Matt Wilkie]

Hi devs,

The 3rd party module *sh* has been removed from Leo's repo (with commit 
a2a43490). It used to live in "leo/extensions" as "sh.py". sh is a 
full-fledged subprocess replacement for Python 2.6 - 3.6, PyPy and PyPy3 
that allows you to call *any* program as if it were a function.

A non-exhaustive search through Leo's source code repo didn't find anything 
significant that referenced this file or module. In the event you do use or 
need this it would be better to install or otherwise use directy from it's 
source: https://github.com/amoffat/sh 
. (The copy we were shipping was 
ancient, *many *versions behind current.)

If the module is something that's used all the time or should be available 
to generally to Leo users we can add it to the list of automatically 
installed libraries in setup.py. (Open an enhancement request and tag it 
with Pip.)

cheers,

-matt

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Python-patch removed from Leo's repo

[Matt Wilkie]

Hi devs,

The 3rd party module *python-patch* has been removed from Leo's repo (with 
commit e08929ad). It used to live in "leo/extensions" as "/patch_11_01.py".

A non-exhaustive search through Leo's source code repo didn't find anything 
significant that referenced this file or module. From the commit history it 
was added to Leo as a study resource. 

In the event you do use or need this it would be better to install or 
otherwise use directy from it's source: 
https://github.com/techtonik/python-patch.

If the module is something that's used all the time or should be available 
to generally to Leo users we can add it to the list of automatically 
installed libraries in setup.py. (Open an enhancement request and tag it 
with Pip.)

cheers,

-matt

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Re: Setting up Leo for web development and TEI XML

[Matt Wilkie]

On Monday, 20 April 2020 14:36:33 UTC-7, Thomas Passin wrote:
>
> I've put them in the attached Leo outline.  
>

I added them to Leo's snippets repo: 
https://github.com/leo-editor/snippets/tree/master 
Thanks Thomas!

-matt

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Re: Vendored packages shipped with Leo

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> And, before I track down and add the license files in whatever format 
> Conda Forge needs, are any of them ripe for removal?
>

*Patch* in `leo/extensions/` seems to be alive and well upstream and quite 
a bit newer than what we ship - https://github.com/techtonik/python-patch. 

*Sh *is even more alive - https://github.com/amoffat/sh

Is it reasonable to add these to the pip requirements list and remove from 
the repo?

-matt

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Vendored packages shipped with Leo

[Matt Wilkie]

Hi Devs,

I'm working on  
getting Leo added to the Conda Forge  packaging 
ecosystem for Anaconda environments. 

One of their requirements is that we don't ship modules and libraries from 
other projects, or in the even we need to ship included we also include the 
license files for these vendored packages.

As far as I know all our vendored things are in `leo/external`, yes?
https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/tree/master/leo/external

And, before I track down and add the license files in whatever format Conda 
Forge needs, are any of them ripe for removal?

cheers,

-matt

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Re: Ready-to-run exe

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> We both did the same thing. Rev 6e13c60 in devel attempts to fix the 
> resulting merge conflicts.
>
> - I picked my version for LeoDocs.leo because that version fixes some 
> sphinx/rST problems in previous text.
>

Should I be editing LeoDocs in a different way or doing something else to 
avoid merge conflicts?
 
 

> - I picked your version of MANIFEST.in. Please ensure it as you want it.
>

I'm glad you said something, it wasn't. This is very strange though because 
the git log and file history clearly showed the my change was there and not 
reverted in any subsequent diffs that I could see. Yet, in the fle system 
the line I added was gone (`include LICENSE`). Anyway, I re-added it 
(1c197cc).


-matt

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Re: Question related to 'Installing Leo with Git'?

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> Drat. You may have to add back those words.
>

Done :)

matt

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Re: Question related to 'Installing Leo with Git'?

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> 4. I get confused after a time when I set up more than a few virtual 
> environments, because I forget what they were all for and what the state of 
> their libraries and configuration is.  This way I don't need those virtual 
> environments.
>

Changing PYTHONPATH between d:\code\leo-devel or d:\code\leo-experiment12 
can be simpler than setting up different virtual enviroments for them, 
especially if they use all the same libraries. For me this doesn't solve 
the #4 problem though, forgetting what those folders are for! Switching 
venv or variable, it's the same end from different paths. *(haha! pun 
intended, but I didn't see until aftewards.)*

(BTW, I'm not trying to persuade you or anyone else to move away from what 
works for you. We each have our own best fitting clothes.)

-matt

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Re: Is it safe to run different instances of Leo on the same machine?

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> To make it safer use a different ~/.leo for each one by changing HOME 
>> environment variable before starting Leo.
>>
>
> *This is counter intuitive to my understanding of why Python has 
> introduced PyVE's!*
>
> At the moment my gut feeling is that Leo should change here ...
>

It becomes a question of how isloated and unique one wishes to become. The 
leakage you described is from settings and files in your HOME directory 
being available to all PyVEs. Extend virtualness far enough, so there's 
zero chance of one environment seeping into another, you're better using 
different computer login accounts, or even distinct OS and hardware. 

I can envisage configuring Leo so that if {current-Leo-install-path} 
doesn't match {HOME/.leo-recorded-install-path}: create a new 
{HOME/.leo-install-path}, but then you'd lose all your settings and be back 
to factory defaults. From there it might be desirable to have a Leo user 
settings migration tool, but how to choose what to keep and what to leave 
behind? Every person will have their own and different answers. 

Getting back to the warning messages you saw: they mean the files you had 
open in previous session are not available now. There's nothing else Leo 
could possibly do other than say "hey, I can't find these". Well, actually 
it could just never save and reload sessions; maybe there's even a setting 
for that already.

-matt

-matt


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Re: Question related to 'Installing Leo with Git'?

[Matt Wilkie]

> As the footnoted reference says, If you install from Git, you can get the 
> latest development versions.  What it does not say is that the latest 
> development version is usually not in the "master" branch of the git 
> repository.  It is usually in the "devel" branch.  
>

Good point, I added how to switch.
 
-matt

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Re: Ready-to-run exe

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> The installing instructions Edward linked to look complicated because 
>> they're long, but really it just boils down to:
>>
>>- install python (v3.6 or newer)
>>- run: pip install leo from a python enabled command prompt
>>- run leo from that same python enabled command prompt
>>
>> Yes. - That is the description, how 'Downloading, Installing & Running 
> Leo' [1] should start!
>

Done, in devel branch. I'm not sure how many days before it gets pushed to 
the website (it's not automatic).

-matt

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Re: Question related to 'Installing Leo with Git'?

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> Why should I prefer this method, if I don't get anything else than if I 
> would simple do a 'pip install leo'? - What am I missing?
>

   - Upgrades are faster and easier, a simple `git pull` and you're done. 
   Only the new and changed files are downloaded. With a pip upgrade a full 
   download, uninstall, reinstall cycle is needed.
   - Switching between stable release and development versions or even 
   downgrading is easy: `git checkout master`, `git checkout devel` or `git 
   checkout v6.0`. 
   - you have all the files in the root directory so when opening certain 
   .leo files distributed with Leo there won't be complaints about missing 
   files (as per in my reply to the other thread).
   
-matt

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Re: Is it safe to run different instances of Leo on the same machine?

[Matt Wilkie]

Hi Viktor,


>
> *can not open 
> /home/user/PyVE/PyPI/Leo-stable/lib64/python3.7/site-packages/setup.pynot 
> found: 
> /home/user/PyVE/PyPI/Leo-stable/lib64/python3.7/site-packages/leo_to_html.xsl*
>
[...]

*Pypi installed Leo *doesn't have the files which are in the root directory 
of the source code repository. -- setup.py, Readme.md, etc. This is 
something we can't do anything about (without changing the whole code 
base). However these files in the root are required to run and use Leo.

   - https://leoeditor.com/installing.html#installing-leo-with-pip

*Source code installed Leo *has everything, at the cost of a few more 
command lines to write and execute:

   - 
https://leoeditor.com/installing.html#installing-leo-from-sources-all-platforms 
 
   or
   - https://leoeditor.com/installing.html#installing-leo-with-git
   
I suspect the reason you got the messages is because your previous session 
of Leo had those files open and it tried to re-open them in the new 
version. Leo is looking in "site-packages" because the path to those files 
in the session db is relative to Leo's home library path. The new Leo 
library path is in PYTHONHOME/site-packages and the old library path was 
somewhere else, perhaps *~/PyVE/Src/Leo-devel/leo-editor-devel/.*

As for is it safe to switch back and forth between Leo versions?  I think 
it's safe-ish but not fool proof. If the things you are working on don't 
have anything to do with Leo, ie. you're not hacking on Leo's sources, you 
should be fine. (With caveats if you make use of features that may or not 
be present in the other version).

To make it safer use a different ~/.leo for each one by changing HOME 
environment variable before starting Leo.

-matt

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Re: Ready-to-run exe

[Matt Wilkie]

Hi Matelot,

I'm sorry to say that we lost the ability to easily build an all-in-one 
exe. It's on my list of things to get to again but aren't there yet (and 
not likely to be soon). That said, installing it the techy or developer way 
is much easier than it used to be.

The installing instructions Edward linked to look complicated because 
they're long, but really it just boils down to:

   - install python (v3.6 or newer)
   - run: pip install leo from a python enabled command prompt
   - run leo from that same python enabled command prompt

-matt

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Re: change python minimum version to 3.7?

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> I would prefer to use only 3.6 for now. As I understand your second 
> comment, this is not actually a problem. Is that right?
>

Right. 3.6 is still fine for me.

-matt

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Re: change python minimum version to 3.7?

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> The dev [of semantic_version] has changed his min version to python 3.7. 
>

Not true! I misread an error message and another package is complaining 
about the version. (I still have the question, but it's not urgent).

-matt

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change python minimum version to 3.7?

[Matt Wilkie]

Everyone: Will you experience hardship if we change the minimum required 
python version for Leo to be 3.7?

Background: I rely on *semantic_version* module in setup.py for building a 
version number that PyPi.org is happy with. The dev has changed his min 
version to python 3.7. We don't have to follow suit, there are other ways 
to accomplish the same thing and semver is not needed for Leo itself, but 
it is the least amount of work for me. ;-)

For reference, Python.org is committed to 3.6 support (security fixes only) 
until December 2021.

cheers,

-matt

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Re: Setting up Leo for web development and TEI XML

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> One of the more useful little things I did was to create two buttons that 
> appear above every outline:
>
> 1. Show Current Directory
> 2. Cmd Window Here
>
> They both open in the currently effective directory, which is usually the 
> directory of the outline itself.  That can be changed using @path 
> directives. So, for example, if you changed an HTML file and wanted to load 
> it into the browser, you could open e.g., Windows Explorer on its directory 
> and then double click it.
>
 
These and the following ones you mentioned would be useful generally. Let's 
save them in https://github.com/leo-editor/snippets. (send to me and I'll 
add, while we're waiting for your Github push workflow to get sorted out).

-matt

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Re: Viewrendered3 Updates

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> Hmm, I wonder if that could be my Windows firewall preventing the outbound 
> connection because it's ssh?
>

I get the same error, but I'm not using Putty/ssh to connect and don't have 
any keys loaded.

As I understand it (and I'm not sure I do understand it!) there 3 common 
pathways on Windows for git authentication:

   - Putty and SSH keys
   - Windows Credentials (example below)
   - OAuth tokens (in Git Extensions see "Plugins>>Github" menu)
   
I think it is possible to be have all 3 configured at once on a single 
machine, but only using one at any given moment, through means opaque to me.

On my main Leo computer going to "Control Panel\User Accounts\Credential 
Manager >> Windows Credentials >> Generic" shows 2 github entries. I don't 
know how these got setup initially, but I know on my work computer I was 
able to add a github entry manually and that after that I could push. 
Here's where I learned about Credential Manager: 
https://github.com/gitextensions/gitextensions/issues/4916



For my work computer troubles I took the step of resetting my credentials 
and now enter my password every time. Painful but alway works.

Clearing stored git username and passwords 

 

elevate git config --system --unset credential.helper

git config --global --unset credential.helper

 

then for each repo:


git config --unset credential.helper


(*elevate *refers to https://code.kliu.org/misc/elevate/)


And then go to "Control Panel\User Accounts\Credential Manager" >> Windows 
Credentials >> Generic" and remove the GitHub entries. 

After this using "git push" in console asked for credentials -- every time 
though. Still need to figure out how to safely save them for re-use on this 
machine.

So, a bunch info, some of which may even be useful.

Sign me, 
*a-reluctant-git-user-who-resents-the-amount-time-required-for-stupid-git-administrivia*
-matt

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Re: getting node name of script behind a button?

[Matt Wilkie]

Thanks for the extra details that extend my understanding and gives path 
trail heads for more. For now I will content myself with just writing the 
name!

-matt

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Re: Is there any user-friendly installer for Leo?

[Matt Wilkie]

 

> What's more, if I set PYTHONPATH to point to my git clone location, the 
> leo command launches Leo from there instead of from the standard 
> install.  Excellent - that's just what I would want.
>

Cool, I didn't know that.

 

> OTOH, I don't see a leo.exe command in the Git clone.  I suppose that it 
> gets built somewhere for the Leo wheel for Windows, is that right?
>

Right, pip builds the wrappers in PYTHONHOME/Scripts at install time. It 
takes care of linking to the desired python interpreter in the right 
location (on Linux this means puting in the correct path in the shebang 
line).

leo.exe is the same as "pythonW.exe -m leo ..." and 
"leo-messages.exe" is same as "python.exe -m leo ..." (no 'w'). 

-matt

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Re: Viewrendered3 Updates

[Matt Wilkie]

So that's (a very brief) intro for how to work with multiple remotes for a 
single source code repo. For me that's too complicated and I prefer this 
route:

   1. Clone Leo (using the client you like best)
   2. On your machine immediately checkout and Devel, and create a new 
   branch
   3. Make a teeny change, commit and push. (to verify your memberhsip in 
   Leo org works).
   4. copy your work into this new branch, commit, hack, push, repeat.

-matt

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Re: Viewrendered3 Updates

[Matt Wilkie]

> Hmm. What happens with `git push` from console?  (see tab button beside 
>> [commit, diff, file tree, ...] in Git Extensions, or just from a regular 
>> command prompt). Any error messages?
>>
>
> That pushes to my fork, but not upstream to Leo.  It works fine.  Do you 
> think it's worth cloning Leo using Git-Ext?  Right now, I have the fork, 
> managed with Git Ext, and the Leo clone, managed by Github Desktop.
>

Ahh, I think I see now. You need to add a new remote to push to. This could 
be done in any client, but I only know how for git extensions. Once the 
remote(s) are set all the clients should be able to use them. Right now in 
the GitExt manged repo the remote named "origin" is probably set to your 
personal fork. 

Right click on "Remotes"  >> select "Manage" >> then [+] to add a new 
remote. Call it 'upstream' (or anything else that makes sense to you) and 
put in Leo's repo address for url:

https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor.git

When you save changes the next prompt is confusingly worded. What it's 
really asking is: *"make this new remote the default one?"*.

>From this point on, when you use the Push or Pull dialogs (via dropdown) 
you can choose between Origin (yours) and Upstream (Leo Editor 
organization) for the destination.


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Re: Viewrendered3 Updates

[Matt Wilkie]

Hmm. What happens with `git push` from console?  (see tab button beside 
[commit, diff, file tree, ...] in Git Extensions, or just from a regular 
command prompt). Any error messages?

Do you have more than one GitHub account? I've run into problems with Git 
Extensions and multiple GitHub identities. I *think *I've sorted it now, 
but I've thought that before.

-matt

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Re: Is there any user-friendly installer for Leo?

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> In order for the bare command leo to work, the operating system has to 
> know that it's a Python file and that it's supposed to open a Python file 
> using Python.  Sometimes this chain of identification doesn't get set up 
> right.  It seems like that was the problem when you got this error message:
>
> leo : The term 'leo' is not recognized as the name of a cmdlet, function, 
> script file, or operable program.
>
> It will not get set up if you just download a zip file and run from it.  A 
> pip install *may* do it, but I'm not sure.
>
 
Yes, it will.

-matt

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Re: Is there any user-friendly installer for Leo?

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> thank you very much for your help. I have tried everything I could but 
> everything failed. Finally, I have decided to reinstall Python and the 
> recommended installation process by Matt went smoothly :). 
> So maybe there was something wrong with my Python.
>

You're welcome, and thanks for reporting back.
 

> I have a couple of more question but I will make a separate post for them 
> :). I guess it is better to do in that way. 
>

Yes, it's definitely easier to track separate problems in different 
threads! Thanks.

-matt

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Re: Is there any user-friendly installer for Leo?

[Matt Wilkie]

Hello Jan,

The most solid way is to install from sources 
(https://leoeditor.com/installing.html#installing-leo-from-sources-all-platforms)
 
but unfortunately it's not the friendliest route for non-comandline folk.

Overview:

1. Install python (v3.6+)
2. Download Leo sources, and unpack somehwere convenient (e.g. 
c:\apps\leo-editor)
3. Install with pip from a python enabled command prompt :
pip install --editable c:\apps\leo-editor
4. Run leo.

>From your reported errors step 3 wasn't run or something went wrong with it 
(the dependent library PyQt5 wasn't installed, and probably others).

Anaconda specific for Windows:

*Start >> Anaconda Shell*, then:

python --version
pip install --editable c:\apps\leo-editor
leo-messages

The Pip install part will output a lot of messages. Generally the first and 
last 10 lines or so are most useful for troubleshooting.

cheers,

-matt

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getting node name of script behind a button?

[Matt Wilkie]

How do I get the name/position of a script bound to a button, regardless of 
what node is currently selected when the button is used?

The goal is make it clear in the Log pane where the status message is 
coming from (the script).

So far I'm using `c.p.h` to report the name like this:

g.es_print("", c.p.h, "")


This works fine when I fire the script with Ctrl-B. Howevre after binding 
the script to a button it reports the currently selected node, which can be 
anywhere, and not the script's name.

thanks!

-matt

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Re: Viewrendered3 Updates

[Matt Wilkie]

That is very inspiring Thomas!

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Re: Qt is changing their licensing policies

[Matt Wilkie]

>
>  ...in the event of a one-year freeze on free releases, Phoronix now 
>> reports, "several individuals and projects are already expressing 
>> interest in a Qt fork should it come to it 
>> ."
>>  
>>
>>
>
> Heh.  A one-year reprieve from the dreaded software rot.
>

A prominent Qgis developer, one of the largest and most successful open 
source Qt based programs I'm aware of, pointed out they're currently 2 
years behind current Qt on Windows because there haven't been any 
compelling reasons to upgrade, and the bugs that have been filed in their 
areas of concern aren't being dealt with on the Qt side anyway.
-- https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/qgis-developer/2020-April/060854.html

-matt

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Re: Where Leo shines for me

[Matt Wilkie]

Thanks Offray. It's interesting to see/read a specific scenario like that. 
I haven't tried to use Leo for prose, other than just straight up journal 
style composition of my own stuff.

-matt

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Re: Leo command line options are ignored

[Matt Wilkie]

https://leoeditor.com/running.html#running-leo-after-pip-install-leo for 
what the 3 wrappers do.

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Re: Leo command line options are ignored

[Matt Wilkie]

If you've installed Leo with pip there are leo launch wrappers in 
PYTHONHOME/Scripts that should correctly handle command line parameters 
regardless of whether you're on WIndows or Linux and without needing 
registry edits. They are functionally equivalent to the phrase "python 
path/to/launchLeo.py".

On Win they are: leo.exe, leo-messages.exe, and leo-console.exe.

-matt

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Re: Pyzo as a live Leo explorer

[Matt Wilkie]

Oh good, such a short and sweet recipe!

-matt

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Re: Pyzo as a live Leo explorer

[Matt Wilkie]

Thanks for the extra detail Thomas. 

Something like this function in runLeo.py 
 to 
add command line argument might be used to invoke no-docks:

def run_console(*args, **keywords): 
   """Initialize and run Leo in console mode gui""" 
   import sys 
   sys.argv.append('--gui=console') 
   run(*args, **keywords)


It is called like this:


import leo.core.runLeo
leo.core.runLeo.run_console()


I tried simply changing it to `leo.core.runLeo.run_console('--no-dock')` 
instead but that failed, so more would be needed. A path perhaps though.


Leo 6.3-devel, devel branch, build 8051ecd172
2020-04-05 05:55:36 -0500

trace: createMenuFromConfigList NO PARENT Edit Settings doHandlersForTag,
callTagHandler,onCreate,build_menu

Redirection is not supported.

The kernel process exited. (1) 


-matt



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Re: What's next, part 3

[Matt Wilkie]

Witth astonishing regularity the very moment I identify and proclaim "this 
is the state of (my) world" is when it begins to markedly change. Maybe 
true here too, discovering and opening the void is when nature rushes to 
fill it. Or not. ;-)

-matt

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Re: Pyzo as a live Leo explorer

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> It is very cool, and your steps didn't quite work for me.  I'm using pyzo 
> 4.10.2 on Windows.  For one thing, I don't even have an F5 command. Here is 
> what I did:
>

Oh! F5 is menu "*Run >> Execute file*" which might also be bound to Ctrl-E. 
It's the conceptual equivalent to Leo's "*Run current node tree as script*", 
Ctrl-B.

Thanks for adding another working recipe.

Beyond this, I don't know much about what you can do with them so far. but 
> it's very cool ...
>

Anything you do in the interactive shell becomes part of the Workspace. I 
use it most to look at what my variables etc. actually turn into (which can 
be quite different from what I *think* they are!). So if I have this 
function in a script (that I have opened and run in Pyzo):

def get_leo_libpath():
 import leo 
 return leo.__path__[0]


and assign it, either in the script or in the interactive shell:


x = get_leo_libpath()

This variable and it's value are now visible in the Workspace immediately. 
This means I don't need to sprinkle print(x) when I'm trying to understand 
what's happening.




This is probably a narrow use of it's actual feature set. 

Using it this way for all of Leo as a running app might not be that 
practical, for instance whatever you do in the running Leo GUI won't show 
up in Pyzo's workspace (I don't think anyway, I might be wrong about that). 
I'm finding it useful right at the moment because it shows me all the Leo 
parts that loaded and available, and inside what modules. (Which is a 
different picture than just scanning 'leo/core/...' for .py files, that may 
or not have been called yet.)

-matt

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Pyzo as a live Leo explorer

[Matt Wilkie]

Happy Monday discovery: 

Pyzo's workspace feature can be used to interactively explore Leo's 
modules, functions, classes, methods and defined variables in real time. 
This is so cool.

   1. Create a new shell that uses the same env (python.exe) that you use 
   with Leo.
   2. Open that shell.
   3. Open launchLeo.py
   4. Run it (F5)
   5. Open the Workspace tool and explore!
   
It doesn't give you the Global, Commander, Position, Headline and Body  
(g,c,p,h,v,...) variables which you have within Leo. Though you can 
reconstruct those inside Pyzo if you wish by extracting the relevant 
snippets from Leo's code and running them in the interactive shell window.





-matt

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Re: iLeo not working

[Matt Wilkie]

I haven't tried anything ipython for a very long time so not sure I can 
help much. These two lines in the traceback stand out to me though:

  File ".\leo\plugins\qt_gui.py", line 1424, in show_tips
ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'leo.core.leoTips'


*...later:* Win10 x64, python 3.6.9 in a conda env.

python .\launchLeo.py --ipython

leoIpython.py: can not import connect_qtconsole
leoIpython.py: can not import IPKernelApp
Leo 6.3-devel, devel branch, build 8051ecd172
2020-04-05 05:55:36 -0500

Leo worked fine, but no ipython, which isn't surprising because I haven't 
installed it.

pip install notebook
python .\launchLeo.py --ipython

*Now *Leo locks up like you described earlier. However there's a message in 
the console:

[IPKernelApp] WARNING | Eventloop or matplotlib integration failed. Is 
matplotlib installed?
new_qt_console 

So I pip installed matplotlib and tried again. Leo now does not lock up and 
appears to functioning normally. The console still complains that 
matplotlib integration fails though.

Here's the last console log:

# python .\launchLeo.py --ipython

Leo 6.3-devel, devel branch, build 8051ecd172
2020-04-05 05:55:36 -0500
don't forget to launch leo-ver-serv!!!
NOTE: When using the `ipython kernel` entry point, Ctrl-C will not work.

To exit, you will have to explicitly quit this process, by either sending
"quit" from a client, or using Ctrl-\ in UNIX-like environments.

To read more about this, see https://github.com/ipython/ipython/issues/2049


To connect another client to this kernel, use:
 --existing kernel-4816.json
[IPKernelApp] WARNING | Eventloop or matplotlib integration failed. Is 
matplotlib installed?
new_qt_console 
wrote recent file: D:/Matt/Dropbox/.leo/.leoRecentFiles.txt
error writing D:/Matt/Dropbox/.leo/.leoRecentFiles.txt
Traceback (most recent call last):

 File "D:\Matt\code\leo-editor\leo\core\leoApp.py", line 4009, in 
writeRecentFilesFileHelper
 with io.open(fileName, encoding='utf-8', mode='w') as f:

OSError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument: 'D:/Matt/Dropbox/.leo/.leoRecentFiles.
txt'

QSocketNotifier: Multiple socket notifiers for same socket 2224 and type 
Read
QSocketNotifier: Multiple socket notifiers for same socket 2288 and type 
Read

After exiting Leo I needed to Ctrl-C in the console window to get control 
back.

*Summary:* `pip install notebook matplotlib` is enough to get Leo iself 
working with python 3.6 (windows) but I'm not sure if the ipython 
connection is working/usable.

-matt

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Re: About zoom vs leo-editor

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> Yes diverse, respectful and curious minded people talking on Internet are 
> scarce these days. I'm glad to be here since long ago. Its an inspiring 
> place to learn from people like you and all the Leonistas :-).
>

If you haven't already you must lose yourself for a few hours in the mind 
of Gwern Branwen (or if you have, perhaps it's time to do so again). 
https://www.gwern.net

-matt

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Re: Matt, do you know why TravisCI isn't checking recent changes?

[Matt Wilkie]

I think there's more to it though. Thomas's PR is stuck in "waiting for 
status to be reported" mode, and I found a lot of similar threads. Sounds 
like a recurring GitHub <-> Travis integration problem. I've asked for help.

https://travis-ci.community/t/on-a-pr-some-checks-havent-completed-yet-waiting-for-status-to-be-reported/7951

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Re: Matt, do you know why TravisCI isn't checking recent changes?

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> Take a look at https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/branches/active.
>

umm, no. 

[Later] after some poking around discovered the [Requests] page.
https://travis-ci.org/github/leo-editor/leo-editor/requests
which says "GitHub payload is missing a merge commit (mergeable_state: 
"unknown", merged: false)" starting 4 hours ago and continuing for next 4 
commits.

I made a small commit to devel, which did trigger a new build, and that 
failed with "syntax error in: viewrendered2" (ref 
). 
Looks like a remaining merge marker:

Traceback (most recent call last):
>
>   File "/home/travis/build/leo-editor/leo-editor/leo/core/leoTest.py", line 
> 1364, in checkFileSyntax
>
> tree = compile(s + '\n', fileName, 'exec')
>
>   File "viewrendered3", line 945
>
> <<< HEAD
>
>  ^
>
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
>
-matt

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Re: About zoom vs leo-editor

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> Even better that Zoom is Jitsi[1], which doesn't do extensive data and 
> metadata collection just to have a simple conference, is open source, 
> gratis, multiplatform and just requires a link to start your talk.
>
> [1] meet.jit.si/
>

Thanks Offray. This is useful to me in another context (and maybe this one 
too ;-)
 

> Leo is awesome for a lot of other thinks.
>

Definately. The learning about other interesting things/thoughts feature of 
this group is what kept me here long enough to learn about Leo itself. ;-)

-matt

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Re: About zoom vs leo-editor

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> ...I can certainly imagine using Leo to grab and re-arrange snippets from 
>> lectures and so on.
>>
>
> Excellent ideas. Please create an enhancement request.
>

Done! https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/issues/1556

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Re: About zoom vs leo-editor

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> Imagine Leo turned to this task, headlines would label snippets of audio 
> captured in their body


I started a course today called Introduction to Mathematical Thinking 
.
 
One of the things this offering has that beats the pants off other video 
courses I've been subjected to is that it has a full text transcript, and 
they are tied together. Skip ahead in the video and so does the transcript. 
Click on a sentence in the transcript and it jumps to that part of the 
video. I would love to have this in podcasts and especially audio books.

I don't think I'd like it in Leo for my own work, the sound of my own 
recorded voice is just too wierd, but I can certainly imagine using Leo to 
grab and re-arrange snippets from lectures and so on.

-matt

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Re: About zoom vs leo-editor

[Matt Wilkie]

To my mind face-to-face and text and audio and video each have their merit, 
and each with their own most appropriate applications. And all best used in 
augmentation with their bretheren rather than supplanting.

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Re: Leo 6.2.1 released

[Matt Wilkie]

Thanks Edward

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Re: Proposed change to setup.py

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> With the confusions I've had using github forks, I think I'd like to work 
> in my own Mercurial repo, where I would only need my own code and not the 
> entire Leo distro, and copy the results to my Github fork of Leo.  For that 
> to work, the most convenient way would be for Leo to load plugins from the 
> PYTHONPATH instead of its own location.
>
> One of the github things that I haven't mastered is when I start a branch 
> for a project - say based off devel - and then that upstream branch changes 
> before I'm ready to merge or do a pull request.  Of course, this happens 
> all the time.  If I don't update my fork to upstream, then the merge or 
> pull request could involve all those other changed files that I wasn't 
> working on.  If I do update to upstream, then the update would step all 
> over my work, and I would have to copy my work back into the fork.
>
> Do you know how to make this all work?
>

One option is to enable the hg-git plugin, so you can continue to use 
Mercurial and push/pull from a git repo. I used this happily for a couple 
of years until a change in network policy at work blocked me from being to 
push outside the network.

As for not being clobbered by upstream changes or getting too far behind, I 
use 2 main strategies: 

a) keep your work in it's own folder within the repo, a place no one else 
is likely to touch. This is not possible if you need to touch core though. 
However this problem isn't solved by the off-campus route you're using now 
either.

b) merge early, merge often: as in daily. This way any given upstream 
change can (usually) be inspected and accepted/changed in small easy to 
understand pieces. Use an interactice tool like WinMerge or Kmeld to do the 
merging. (WinMerge has been easiest for me to understand, the keyboard 
shortcuts make sense to me.)

Really though if what you're doing now is successful keep doing it! VR3 is 
awesome. Better you spend your precious attention on building cool things 
like that than figuring out git arcana. ;-)

-matt

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Re: New installation log

[Matt Wilkie]

> OTOH, I have installed as a user on Linux distros many times using pip 
> install, and never had a problem. Never needed to consider using sudo.
>

Did/do you need to pass `--user` flag? 

pip install --user foobaz

I got into the sudo mess because I didn't know about the user flag, tried 
to just `pip install foo`, got a permission denied error, so reached for 
sudo out of habit, because that's what you need for apt installs. That's 
when I discovered conda and have stayed there since. It would be be good 
news if they've since made user installs the default. (I was on Mint 17 or 
18 if memory serves).

-matt

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Re: Release v6.2.1

[Matt Wilkie]

> Looks good to me. I'll release 6.2.1 tomorrow at the earliest.
>>
>  
> Hold please. TravisCI is failing on my latest checkin. 
> https://travis-ci.org/github/leo-editor/leo-editor/builds/668543463#L276
>

All good now. The fix was upgrading pip in the CI.

-matt

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Re: Release v6.2.1

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> Looks good to me. I'll release 6.2.1 tomorrow at the earliest.
>
 
Hold please. TravisCI is failing on my latest checkin. 
https://travis-ci.org/github/leo-editor/leo-editor/builds/668543463#L276

-matt

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Re: New installation log

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> PyQt5 isn't the only requirement for leo. The setup.py file (used by pip) 
> has all the requirements. Maybe these instructions would be better as it 
> would get all the dependencies and not just PyQt5:
>
> Install python3
> if not using git:
>
> pip install leo
>
> If using git:
>
> git clone 
>
> pip install --editable leo-editor
>
>
 
As of py3.6 this should always work. 

Linux can add a wrinkle with system vs user installs. User is safer in my 
experience. Morale of a painful story I havn't shared: *never use `sudo pip 
install`*. It can take a looong time to extricate from mixed up  package 
manager installs and pip installs in system.

-matt

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Re: Proposed change to setup.py

[Matt Wilkie]

 

> Then you could keep your development code entirely out of the repo until 
> you got it to the point it was worth adding it in.  I'd like that.
>

A fork would accomplish this and then be easier to add to the main repo 
later. I think so anyway, but there  might be things I'm not considering 
that could make it more work than is desireable.

 

>  
>
>> Also for sde-byside it's best not to use the same HOME, as files in the 
>> .leo folder might get messed up. 
>>
>
> That's a problem that I sometimes have, not only with side-by-side.  I 
> don't like to use side-by-side anyway except for, let's say, checking that 
> something still works in a different version of Leo.  Even virtual 
> environments don't solve this, do they? 
>

Correct, virtuals don't help with this unless you also virtualize HOME 
(which is certainly possible by the way. There's a mechanism in conda and 
probably others to run scripts automatically when the env is activated.)

-matt

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Re: Release v6.2.1

[Matt Wilkie]

On Sunday, 29 March 2020 10:36:57 UTC-7, Matt Wilkie wrote:
>
> Please create a new 6.2.1 branch, based on 6.2, not devel.
>>
>
> ok, done. I updated the version number in leoVersion.py also.
>


 I named the branch with a "v" prefix, which I now notice has been only 
used for tags. I don't know if we can have both a branch and tag with the 
same name. Even if we can it would be confusing, so I renamed the branch 
and pushed it following this guide: 
https://multiplestates.wordpress.com/2015/02/05/rename-a-local-and-remote-branch-in-git/

Hopefully I was fast enough not to screw anyone else up.

-matt

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Re: Release v6.2.1

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> Please create a new 6.2.1 branch, based on 6.2, not devel.
>

ok, done. I updated the version number in leoVersion.py also.

-matt

>

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Release v6.2.1

[Matt Wilkie]

Edward, 

Commit 77f4000d re-adds MANIFEST.in to git exports and releases and is the 
fix for #1547 and #1512, the inability for pip install to work from zip 
release archives. It's worthy of a new dot release. I committed to devel 
before remembering there's a new release branch workflow.

Should I commit this straight to v6.2 branch or create a new v6.2.1 branch 
from v6.2 and then commit? (or something else)

-matt

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Re: Proposed change to setup.py

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> So if I had a clone at d:\leo-clone, I'd use the following?
>
> python -m pip install --editable d:\leo-clone
>
 
Yes.

I  have been setting PYTHONPATH to d:\leo-clone.  This has always seemed to 
> work well, as long as the dependencies have been installed in my main 
> Python install (because of a previous Leo install, for example).  This way, 
> I can always switch back to using the previous install just by launching 
> from another terminal without setting PYTHONPATH.
>

If your diferent versions are in the same SCM repo (eg. hg, git) then 
resettng to or checking out your desired version can be done without 
messing with PYTHONPATH. This is the primary benefit of editable install, 
it always uses what's in that directory tree *right now, *allowing you to 
test code changes immediately.

pip install -e d:\leo-clone
pushd d:\leo-clone
git checkout v6.1
python -m leo.core.runLeo
# hack, hack. do stuff in Leo 6.1. exit.
git checkout v6.2
python -m leo.core.runLeo
# hack, hack. do stuff in Leo 6.2. exit.
...etc


If you want to run different versions of Leo side by side then *don't *pip 
install Leo at all, editable or not, and set PYTHONPATH the way you have 
been. I think it's cleaner to not to change PYTHONPATH though and to use 
`python d:\leo-clone-2\launchLeo.py` for starting. (It might mess with some 
imports or make them unpredictable as they search in Leo's tree instead of 
the real python tree.)

Also for sde-byside it's best not to use the same HOME, as files in the 
.leo folder might get messed up. 

-matt

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Re: New installation log

[Matt Wilkie]

>
> I uninstalled Anaconda3. No more confusing envs. Bye bye activation woes.
>

For the benefit of the thread, not because I'm trying to persuade you or 
anyone else to go back to Anaconda or Miniconda:

If you install Leo (or whatever) into the base environment instead of 
creating a distinct envs for projects you can get the simplicity of a 
single system environment, similar to installing python the regular way, 
and still use the conda package manager (if that's a desirable thing for 
your work).

In this case add the base env bin to PATH so it's always available or use 
the system menu 'Anaconda Prompt' (which is the same as `activate` with no 
env specified).

It should be noted this goes against the grain of Anaconda's design and 
they recommend against it. Still works though!

-matt

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Re: Leo's legacy layout is now the default in version 6.2

[Matt Wilkie]

Let's try that again:
https://leoeditor.com/FAQ.html#how-can-i-arrange-qt-docks

On Saturday, 28 March 2020 14:08:27 UTC-7, Matt Wilkie wrote:
>
> Viktor,
>
> Thomas Passin contributed his recipe to the FAQ which mightbe helpful:
>
> -matt
>

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Re: Leo's legacy layout is now the default in version 6.2

[Matt Wilkie]

Viktor,

Thomas Passin contributed his recipe to the FAQ which mightbe helpful:

-matt

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Re: Profiling tree.full_redraw

[Matt Wilkie]

> g.toUnicodeFileEncoding was called 2504395 times during the exection of my 
> script?! os.path.normpath was called 1128328 times.
>

Wow, that's just crazy. A consequences of our computers being *so* much 
faster than antecedants, like say the Apollo11 lander. We don't feel the 
impact of those millions of extra checks without looking for them.
 

> Once again it turned out that the first step in any optimization effort 
> must be profiling the code. 
>

Thanks. You've renewed my aspiration to learn how to profile. ;-)
 

> I would never guess that the full_redraw used to make so many calls in to 
> the path handling and file system functions.
>

I have a program at work that on startup looks at every file in every 
folder in PATH to see if it matches "filenamexx.dll". Drives me nuts that I 
can't do anything about it.

...icons folder, checking every time for the existence of file icons.
>

One of my back-of-brain ideas is to move all of the icons into a single 
font or svg library file per theme and then use them by name or index 
number. I think it would impove performance, but the initial driver is just 
to remove the thousands "adding file ..." and "copying file ..." messages 
when installing!

-matt

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Re: Proposed change to setup.py

[Matt Wilkie]

> I've always installed Leo using pip.  I still don't understand what 
> "--editable" accomplishes, so I've never used it.
>

*Pip install* puts the package and all the files it says it needs under 
PYTHONHOME/Lib/site-packages and creates a launch wrapper in 
PYTHONHOME/Scripts.

Pip install *--editable* doesn't copy anything, puts link files in Lib 
pointing to the code location, and creates the launch wrapper to code 
location.  

At present editable is the most reliable because it's guaranteed all files 
are present. The first way leaves some files out. Some are unavoidable 
without deep restructuring of Leo's code repo [#603 
, #573 
] 
and others I'm slowly tracking down and fixing as the bug reports come in 
(and I figure out how to remedy). [#1512 
 and probably #1547 
] 


I recall reading that launchLeo acts different somehow than leo.core.runLeo, 
> but I don't remember the differences. For what it's worth, I normally start 
> Leo with python -m leo.core.runLeo
>

These two methods should be identical. I'm interested in more info if this 
isn't the case.

 -matt

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Re: Proposed change to setup.py

[Matt Wilkie]

> Anyway, I expanded the docstring of setup.py and put in a guard to prevent 
>> anyone from using it naively like I did.   I've attached below.
>>
>
> Looks good to me. Matt, any comments?
>

Thank you tfer. In all this time it never occured to me to add a message to 
guide people to usng pip instead! I'll use your code with some modification 
to do that. (We have at least one project downstream that uses Leo's 
setup.py directly so we should be mindful not to block that.)

I created #1547  for 
this.

-matt


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