Re: OT: Here we go again ...
On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 22:17:58 -0700 - Philip J. Koenig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote the following Re: Re: OT: Here we go again ... There are many millions of such good Muslims. Such examples are about as useful as characterizing the guys who go around assassinating family-planning doctors as good christians, despite the fact that their Christian god said thou shalt not kill. Glad this analogy came up. When abortion docs first got shot, and each time thereafter, the catholic church, from local priests to the pope in the vatican immediately, publicly and loudly declared that this is not the christain way and is wrong. Where are the mullahs, I'll tell ya, they are so scared of their own religion they cower in fear of the radical element and therefore are no better or they re telling their followers to save their bullets for the chests of the enemy. The few that do stand up are swallowed by their own religion. They all deserve to be branded terrorists and treated as such until they show us different. When they realize the survival of their religion depends on it they may, just may, be able to see the light. That is the only enevitable outcome. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
On 18 Sep 2003 at 18:59, dep boldly uttered: quoth Philip J. Koenig: | On 18 Sep 2003 at 10:56, Collins Richey boldly uttered: | Homeland Security is scarcely the same as the Nazi SS. Where and | when, pray tell, have they descended upon any innocent group of | citizens, knocking heads and breaking up property? | | The US government has already been detaining people simply because | they are of middle eastern descent. There was quite an uproar in | Southern California about this, and not by the people who are in | danger (because they're afraid of the consequences) but from other | citizens who are appalled by the police-state tactics. | | There have actually been a number of politicians who have suggested | we need to re-institute internment camps, just like we had in WWII. | | According to most historians, that was a pretty dark day in the US's | history, and here we have community leaders merrilly suggesting we | do it again. seems as if your allegations above are a little shy of specifics. which politicians have been suggesting the camps? where are the citations thereof? CITATION #1: February 5, 2003 N.C. Congressman OK With Internment Camps By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS HIGH POINT, N.C. (AP) -- A congressman who heads a homeland security subcommittee said on a radio call-in program that he agreed with the internment of Japanese-Americans during World War II. A fellow congressman who was interned as a child criticized Coble for his comment on Wednesday, as did advocacy groups. Rep. Howard Coble, R-N.C., made the remark Tuesday on WKZL-FM when a caller suggested Arabs in the United States should be confined. Coble, chairman of the Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security, said that he didn't agree with the caller but did agree with President Franklin D. Roosevelt, who established the internment camps. ``We were at war. They (Japanese-Americans) were an endangered species,'' Coble said. ``For many of these Japanese-Americans, it wasn't safe for them to be on the street.'' Like most Arab-Americans today, Coble said, most Japanese-Americans during World War II were not America's enemies. Still, Coble said, Roosevelt had to consider the nation's security. ``Some probably were intent on doing harm to us,'' he said, ``just as some of these Arab-Americans are probably intent on doing harm to us.'' U.S. Rep. Mike Honda, D-Calif., a Japanese-American who spent his early childhood with his family in an internment camp during World War II, said he spoke with Coble on Wednesday to learn more about his views. ``I'm disappointed that he really doesn't understand the impact of what he said,'' Honda said. ``With his leadership position in Congress, that kind of lack of understanding can lead people down the wrong path.'' The Japanese American Citizens League called Coble on Wednesday and asked him to issue an apology, while the American-Arab Anti- Discrimination Committee demanded that Coble explain his remarks. It is ``a sad day in our country's tradition when an elected official ... openly agrees with an unconstitutional and racist policy long believed to be one of the darkest moments of America's history,'' the group said in a statement. === CITATION #2: Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft's announced desire for camps for U.S. citizens he deems to be enemy combatants has moved him from merely being a political embarrassment to being a constitutional menace. Ashcroft's plan, disclosed last week but little publicized, would allow him to order the indefinite incarceration of U.S. citizens and summarily strip them of their constitutional rights and access to the courts by declaring them enemy combatants... [more] http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1721.htm (Originally from LA Times) CITATION #3: STEVE LOPEZ POINTS WEST No Straight Answer From the Feds on Armenian Furor Steve Lopez December 18 2002 Just when it looked like the federal government might have to put a barbed wire fence around the city of Glendale for reasons of national security, good news arrived Monday from the crime busters at the U.S. Justice Department. Armenian nationals do not -- repeat, DO NOT -- have to report to the Immigration and Naturalization Service for fingerprinting and registration. It was all a mistake, and Armenians can now return to their normal activities. Or maybe it wasn't a mistake. I can't tell, and the really frightening thing is that the Justice Department can't seem to tell either. After rescinding the order calling for Armenians to fall in line and be accounted for, a Justice Department spokesman was asked by The Times about the goof, and here's what we got out of him: I can't say it was a mistake. Well then what was it? And if they couldn't get this right, and couldn't at least come up with a credible lie, why should we assume the feds are capable of
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
On 18 Sep 2003 at 17:38, Collins Richey boldly uttered: On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:59:46 -0400 dep [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quoth Philip J. Koenig: | On 18 Sep 2003 at 10:56, Collins Richey boldly uttered: | Homeland Security is scarcely the same as the Nazi SS. Where and | when, pray tell, have they descended upon any innocent group of | citizens, knocking heads and breaking up property? | | The US government has already been detaining people simply because | they are of middle eastern descent. Except for the Oklahoma City incident, I can't think of a single terrorist activity in the past 10 years that was not perpetrated by young Arab/Moslem males. I guess that's what you get for getting your terrorism news from the mainstream US press. (or just not paying attention) Let me give you a few hints: - Northern Ireland (various parties, various incidents) - UTA/Basque separatists (various incidents) - Chechnya (various incidents) - Columbian drug cartels, FARC, ELN, etc. (various incidents) - Hebron massacre of muslims by US citizen and right-wing extremist Baruch Goldstein, 1994 - Tokyo poison gas attack by Japanese cult Aum Shinri-Kyu, 1995 - Tupac Amaru kidnapping of diplomats in Peru, 1996 That should get you started. There are many more on the list. If the US government is detaining non-citizens of middle eastern descent, that is unfortunate but maybe necessary. The bastards who created 9/11 were certainly of middle eastern descent, Easy and common trap you fall into there. What bonds the Al Qaeda operatives together is primarily their radical Islamist beliefs, not their ethnic heritage. The single individual in US custody who is believed to have been slated to join the 9/11 hijackers is actually a French national of Moroccan (North African) descent. Richard Reid, the infamous shoe bomber, is a UK national, has an English mother and Jamaican father, and was born in England. I trust you know about the American Taliban kid too. and I would think that even you would wish that they had been detained! You have no idea what I wish, and neither are my views so easy to characterize. First of all, I don't believe in people being imprisoned simply because of their ethnic heritage. It is against almost every founding principle of the USA, for starters. If someone has some evidence of criminal activity, that's quite another thing altogether. If the US government is detaining US citizens, that is another matter entirely. That they are should be patently obvious by now, to anyone but Rip Van Winkle. Even in that case, if these people have proven associations with terrorist organizations, I have no problem with that. That is the problem -- people have been rounded up simply because of their ethnic background or country of origin. -- Philip J. Koenig [EMAIL PROTECTED] Electric Kahuna Systems -- Computers Communications for the New Millenium ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
quoth Philip J. Koenig: | [END OF CITATIONS] ah. one a.p. story citing one congressman and two some guy said quotes. | Open mouth, insert foot. your choice. -- dep Writing takes no time. It's finding something to say that takes forever. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 07:46:44 -0400 dep [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quoth Philip J. Koenig: | [END OF CITATIONS] ah. one a.p. story citing one congressman and two some guy said quotes. | Open mouth, insert foot. your choice. -- dep Don't waste bandwidth, Philip, DEP is always right. Terence ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
Terence McCarthy wrote: On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 07:46:44 -0400 dep [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quoth Philip J. Koenig: | [END OF CITATIONS] ah. one a.p. story citing one congressman and two some guy said quotes. | Open mouth, insert foot. your choice. -- dep Don't waste bandwidth, Philip, DEP is always right. Terence ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users If he is not right, he will then infer that you are a half-wit, question your man-hood and then top it off with some bizarre accuasation of nerdiness. Terry Bassett ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:37:54 -0400 dep [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: for a touch of perspective: http://www.suntimes.com/output/roeser/cst-edt-roes20.html Thanks for the reference. One of the most credible lines is this: The feds distinguish between ''credible'' and true. Now, if only the New York Times would. -- Collins Richey - Denver Area if you fill your heart with regrets of yesterday and the worries of tomorrow, you have no today to be thankful for. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:53:46 -0400 dep [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: in the immortal words of murray gell-mann, if i have seen farther than others it is because i'm surrounded by midgets. -- I really think you believe this! Terence ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
dep [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sat, 20 Sep 2003 11:37:54 -0400 for a touch of perspective: http://www.suntimes.com/output/roeser/cst-edt-roes20.html My last comment on this topic. I lived in Missouri while Ashcroft was Governor. I met him several times working with youth in government. While Ashcroft is a political animal, he is also a man of deep religous conviction and impecable integrity. If he were not, he would have stayed in the senate. His sense of honor did not allow him to counter Jean Carnahan's mud when she was newly widowed. That said, I KNOW that the media about Ashcroft is lies and possibilities. My concern is the steady encroachment of law against liberties that has taken place over the past decade. With people afraid, our liberties can dwindle faster, if we let them. I am not going down without a fight. -- Alma ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
Shouldn't this thread be in linux-general? -- Gerry The lyfe so short, the craft so long to learne Chaucer ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
Alma J Wetzker wrote: My concern is the steady encroachment of law against liberties that has taken place over the past decade. With people afraid, our liberties can dwindle faster, if we let them. The concern should not be ashcroft or bush or the present, but rather the possibilities for the future. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
Philip J. Koenig wrote: On 18 Sep 2003 at 18:59, dep boldly uttered: quoth Philip J. Koenig: | On 18 Sep 2003 at 10:56, Collins Richey boldly uttered: | Homeland Security is scarcely the same as the Nazi SS. Where and | when, pray tell, have they descended upon any innocent group of | citizens, knocking heads and breaking up property? | | The US government has already been detaining people simply because | they are of middle eastern descent. There was quite an uproar in | Southern California about this, and not by the people who are in | danger (because they're afraid of the consequences) but from other | citizens who are appalled by the police-state tactics. | | There have actually been a number of politicians who have suggested | we need to re-institute internment camps, just like we had in WWII. | | According to most historians, that was a pretty dark day in the US's | history, and here we have community leaders merrilly suggesting we | do it again. bunches of snips I have little doubt it would make much impact on your avowed opinion, so I'm not going to waste my time doing your research for you. i'm not at all certain that anything except the reputation of california is cemented by repeating wild and generally erroneous doobietalk of the sort you have proffered. Open mouth, insert foot. I think if anyone would do a little research they would find that the agriculture lobby and commercial fishing lobby were the prime forces in putting the Japanese/Americans in the camps. Those people lost all they had. I know of only one family that got back their farm in/near Riverside, California. The War Department (formere Defense Dept.) knew the Japanese didn't have enough fuel to reach the U.S.Guarding the West Coast was just a method of instilling patriotism and making Real Americans think they were being protected while the big farmers and fishing companies robbed the American/Japanese was a great way to do it. Bob ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
Geez, they just arrested a Muslim army Chaplain (West Point Grad, Asian American, studied in Syria), who worked with the Muslims held in Cuba. They are seeing spies under every bed, now. BTW, a big difference between WWII and now is that German Americans were strongly and DEMONSTRABLY supportive of their American govt, unlike Muslim (Arab) Americans today. For example, when FDR railroaded some incompetent German saboteurs to the electric chair, there was no outcry from German Americans. They supported the action. Today, if the US Govt decided to put to death a dozen Arabs for plotting industrial sabotage, after a quick trial by a military tribunal, imagine the outcry from you know who. You must realize that as a non-Muslim there is simply no reason not to kill you, in the minds of many devout Muslims. For example, I was speaking to a Pakistani female doctor recently. She said that there have been rare times in the USA when her ethnicity has caused some hurt to her due to discrimination. However, she said, if she went back to Pakistan with her white husband (her words, not mine), he would likely be attacked and killed on a public street. By, of course, people who consider themselves good Muslims. There are many millions of such good Muslims. The inaction of the many other millions of Muslims who oppose violence is puzzling. I suspect they are taking the same sort of pragmatic approach that the Swedes took in 1941. As the Swedish diplomat said, if the English win, we are Democrats. If the Germans win, we are Aryans. Think about that, next time you are angry over your government's efforts to protect you. You might be surprised at who your friends really are. For example, a lot of 60's kids who grew up despising the pigs (You know who you are.) came to rely upon the pigs for protection once they had something to protect. It is interesting to see how people, sometimes the same people, sing different tunes, depending on the situation. For example, many critics of Bush complain that Iraq may have freedom now, but what good is freedom without security? This is often repeated, and given credence by many prominent Americans. However, in this country, they complain about the slightest infringement of civil liberties. It is even more interesting that the infringements are especially irksome if carried out in the name of national security. Infringements in the the name of some favored cause, like conservation, campaign finance reform, diversity, abortion rights, gun control, etc., are much more tolerable. Just something to think about. Joel ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
On 20 Sep 2003 at 11:37, dep boldly uttered: for a touch of perspective: http://www.suntimes.com/output/roeser/cst-edt-roes20.html I found little of interest in that article. Lots of accusations and name-calling, an attempt to compare it to the FDR administration's (probably misguided) act of instituting Japanese internment camps, as if this was the only thing that has happened in the 20th century to violate US citizen's constitutional rights. Almost nothing on specifics. There are reasons why people have widely criticized the parrot act, and that article does nothing to refute the criticisms specifically, simply creates a scorecard based on some group of complaints (who's in charge of deeming which complaints are official anyway?) and proclaiming that most of them were not credible. Yawn. (BTW - despite your previous attempt to deny my assertion that the internment camps were considered one of the dark days in US history, the article you referenced [because it was using this point to take a dig at liberal criticizers of the parrot act, of course] had to say about that event As we know, the low point in civil liberties in the 20th century was when FDR's attorney general, Francis Biddle, ordered the internment of 112,000 Japanese Americans.) Make up your mind dep. -- Philip J. Koenig [EMAIL PROTECTED] Electric Kahuna Systems -- Computers Communications for the New Millenium ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
On 20 Sep 2003 at 18:36, Alma J Wetzker boldly uttered: While Ashcroft is a political animal, he is also a man of deep religous conviction Yes. He's a Pentacostal, a fundamentalist christian sect which believe in miraculous healing and speaking in tongues. A little perspective on claims by those like Ashcroft that the US was founded by Christians: http://www.rense.com/general20/ashcroftamhistory.htm By the way, the phrase In God We Trust was only elevated to the status of national motto in the 1950's. As you might understand if you knew much about American history, many of the most revered founding fathers would likely be quite outraged if such a thing were proposed back in the 1700's. -- Philip J. Koenig [EMAIL PROTECTED] Electric Kahuna Systems -- Computers Communications for the New Millenium ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Philip J. Koenig wrote: | On 20 Sep 2003 at 18:36, Alma J Wetzker boldly uttered: | | | While Ashcroft is a political animal, he is also a man of deep |religous conviction | | | | Yes. He's a Pentacostal, a fundamentalist christian sect which | believe in miraculous healing and speaking in tongues. | [...] While I enjoy watching a decent intellectual wrestling match as much as the next guy, I think we should direct this one over to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list at this point. Which is probably where it should have started anyway. - -- Andrew Mathews - - ~ 10:44pm up 7 days, 11:10, 13 users, load average: 1.29, 1.24, 1.37 - - FORTUNE'S RULES TO LIVE BY: #23 Don't cut off a police car when making an illegal U-turn. - -- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Netscape - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/bS4LidHQ0m/kEssRAsJxAJ4+uboiqdRNpCyDhLMmfNLg690MdQCdEdtp KkhXrptGE8+DeCgT+6/4IYs= =chqq -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
On 20 Sep 2003 at 22:54, Joel Hammer boldly uttered: Geez, they just arrested a Muslim army Chaplain (West Point Grad, Asian American, studied in Syria), who worked with the Muslims held in Cuba. They are seeing spies under every bed, now. They say he had in his possession some incriminating documents. We shall see. (Or maybe not. If they declare him an enemy combatant they could dice him up into little pieces and put him into a blender for all the public will be able to find out) BTW, a big difference between WWII and now is that German Americans were strongly and DEMONSTRABLY supportive of their American govt, unlike Muslim (Arab) Americans today. For example, when FDR railroaded some incompetent German saboteurs to the electric chair, there was no outcry from German Americans. They supported the action. Today, if the US Govt decided to put to death a dozen Arabs for plotting industrial sabotage, after a quick trial by a military tribunal, imagine the outcry from you know who. Who is you know who? And why do they think they need to use a military tribunal instead of a regular court? I really really really don't think most islamic Americans are going to bitch if someone is convicted for really-and-truly trying to commit terrorist acts on US soil. Nonetheless, I really don't think very many westerners, and particularly Americans, have much idea at all about why people from the Islamic world (or any other group of people the US has differences with) have such distrust of the US government. There are many reasons, and lots of them are quite understandable. Swallow your pride and stop your flag-waving for a minute and EDUCATE yourself on this. How about starting here - read the first 2 at least: http://www.rmbowman.com/ssn/longshort2.htm http://www.rmbowman.com/ssn/terror3.htm http://www.afghan-network.net/911/afghan-beeman.html http://tinyurl.com/6tf6 http://www.monbiot.com/dsp_article.cfm?article_id=524 http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0224-05.htm More: http://www.thebostonchannel.com/helenthomas/2101990/detail.html http://www.cato.org/dailys/04-11-03.html http://web.mid-day.com/news/nation/2003/april/49811.htm http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2003/633/fr2.htm http://www.zmag.org/hermancover.htm Results of recent Pew Research study on how favorably the USA is viewed in various countries: Italy: 34% (In 2002: 70%) Britain: 48% (In 2002: 75%) Spain: 14% (In 1999-2000: 50%) France: 31% (In 2002: 63%) Germany: 25% (In 2002: 61%) Poland: 50% (In 2002: 79%) Russia: 28% (In 2002: 61%) Turkey: 12% (In 2002: 30%) You must realize that as a non-Muslim there is simply no reason not to kill you, in the minds of many devout Muslims. For example, I was speaking to a Pakistani female doctor recently. She said that there have been rare times in the USA when her ethnicity has caused some hurt to her due to discrimination. However, she said, if she went back to Pakistan with her white husband (her words, not mine), he would likely be attacked and killed on a public street. By, of course, people who consider themselves good Muslims. There are many millions of such good Muslims. Such examples are about as useful as characterizing the guys who go around assassinating family-planning doctors as good christians, despite the fact that their Christian god said thou shalt not kill. I think this article is instructive on the brand of Islam that is on the rise, mostly for political reasons: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1634755.stm The inaction of the many other millions of Muslims who oppose violence is puzzling. I suspect they are taking the same sort of pragmatic approach that the Swedes took in 1941. As the Swedish diplomat said, if the English win, we are Democrats. If the Germans win, we are Aryans. I really think westerners, and Americans in particular, need to educate themselves a lot more about the world outside their own borders. In particular the generations of exploitation that has gone on in the middle east by the west. Perhaps then they will understand that these people who appear (based on biased western news reports, anyway) to be supporting such things, feel no differently than American soldiers who cheer while killing thousands of innocent civilians in Iraq, because they're on a mission from God. Some irony. (The Pope bitterly opposed the Iraq war, BTW) Americans in particular have shown they have little interest in self-reflection in these matters. Think about that, next time you are angry over your government's efforts to protect you. You might be surprised at who your friends really are. For example, a lot of 60's kids who grew up despising the pigs (You know who you are.) came to rely upon the pigs for protection once they had something to protect. A lot of grains of sand are purple too. Doesn't mean they're visible when I go to the beach though. It is interesting to see how people, sometimes the
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
Kurt Wall wrote: Quoth David A. Bandel: On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:21:25 -0500 Michael Hipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Amen, brother. I thought we all served to prevent precisely this sort of thing. Kurt Any of you older folks remember when 1984 came out and it was going to be the Pinko Commies that spied on us from our TVes? Looks as if the 'Publicans were just setting up a screen. This from a still registered Republican that was a Goldwater Republican. I haven't voted Republican since I voted for Reagan for Governor the first term. By the way back in his younger days he pronounced it Ree'-gan. The DHD could have been handled by telling the heads to get their act together in 15, 30, or ?? or start looking for another job a whole hell of a lot cheaper than expanding the Government. I also remember when 'Publicans were the voice of smaller Government. That hasn't happened since R.R. firat term as California Governer. Bob ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
quoth Matthew Carpenter: | They haven't drawn the conclusion that the initial outage was caused | by it, but there are reports (computerworld I believe) that MSBlast | was responsible for clogging the network pipe between power stations | used to avoid the cascading effect. The cascade-avoidance system | simply couldn't do it's job... | | I agree that it probably STARTED there as well... and ultimately it's gonna come down something like this: a crack of a major hospital or nuke plant is going to kill many or seriously endanger millions. it will be due to microsoft software. there will be an outraged response. what will the effect be? controls in the internet, probably. what it *won't* be is serious action against microsoft, even though their stuff is not only demonstrably dangerous but widely known to be dangerous. (the obvious corrective action, of course, would be to ban permanent connection to the internet of any machine running microsoftware.) there is no one to whom this is a mystery. yet such action as has been taken against microsoft on any point has been very weak. why? because the effects of a microsoft collapse would certainly be vast and severe -- far worse than the combined costs of all the attacks so far. microsoft is a very widely held security. those of us who have company stock-based retirement plans, 401ks, or any of a variety of mutual funds own microsoft stock. it really is a big player economically. so dealing with the microsoft problem *must* include some way of dealing with the substantial financial problem that handling the software problem would entail. it's easy to say screw 'em, but that aintagonna happen. it's a real mess. -- dep Writing takes no time. It's finding something to say that takes forever. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
dep wrote: so dealing with the microsoft problem *must* include some way of dealing with the substantial financial problem that handling the software problem would entail. it's easy to say screw 'em, but that aintagonna happen. it's a real mess. I'd be happy with a simple market-based response where the consumer (CEO, CIO on down to Joe PornSurfer) would decide to stop giving money to the Edsel of software companies. But I'm dreaming again. If that flagship of New Americanism (Dept. of Homeland Implosion) can't see it, then likely will few others. Michael ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
Michael Hipp wrote: the Edsel of software companies. implies a lack of popularity as well as quality. Maybe a closer comparison could be made to the Explorer with Firestone tires. However, the scale is worldwide and permeates everywhere. -- Ken ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
quoth Michael Hipp: | I'd be happy with a simple market-based response where the consumer | (CEO, CIO on down to Joe PornSurfer) would decide to stop giving | money to the Edsel of software companies. | | But I'm dreaming again. If that flagship of New Americanism (Dept. of | Homeland Implosion) can't see it, then likely will few others. problem is, they *do* see it -- as does everyone else. seeing it and solving it, though, are two different things. and the broad and obvious solutions which we have all seen and suggested are vulnerable to the law of unintended consequences. -- dep Writing takes no time. It's finding something to say that takes forever. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:21:25 -0500 Michael Hipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] But I'm dreaming again. If that flagship of New Americanism (Dept. of Homeland Implosion) can't see it, then likely will few others. You're scary. Is this what Americans (US Citizens in this context) think of this Homeland Security thing? If so, holy fsck. Homeland Security, since its inception, has looked and sounded like a new Nazi SS. I didn't server 20 years in the US Military to have the US turned into a police state, but it looks more and more like that every day. To wit: The feds had been after a major drug manufacturer (a chemist who was making crack, etc, in large quantities). I agree he should be jailed forever. But ... The feds couldn't catch him under the normal rules, so they relabeled him a chemical weapons manufacturer and grabbed him under the new anti-terrorism laws. I'm sorry, but this abuse of power by power-hungry agencies is way beyond reasonable. While I'm glad the bastard´s in jail, I'm extremely unhappy with the way he got there. Welcome to the Police State of America (where you might be next for using Linux instead of M$). I expect the RIAA will start pushing to label file sharers as terrorists next. I'm appalled and disgusted and glad to be living outside the US at this point in time. Ciao, David A. Bandel -- Focus on the dream, not the competition. Nemesis Racing Team motto GPG key autoresponder: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
David A. Bandel wrote: I'm sorry, but this abuse of power by power-hungry agencies is way beyond reasonable. While I'm glad the bastard´s in jail, I'm extremely unhappy with the way he got there. Welcome to the Police State of America (where you might be next for using Linux instead of M$). I expect the RIAA will start pushing to label file sharers as terrorists next. I'm appalled and disgusted and glad to be living outside the US at this point in time. Likewise Ciao, David A. Bandel I use to travel to Spokane Wa and L.A. California on a regular basis buying various surplus test equipmemt. Since the formation of the US SS I outright refuse to travel south of the 49th. I guess most people have forgotten the lessons of the past. What a shame. -- Ted Ozolins (VE7TVO) Westbank, B. C. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:34:28 -0500 David A. Bandel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:21:25 -0500 Michael Hipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] But I'm dreaming again. If that flagship of New Americanism (Dept. of Homeland Implosion) can't see it, then likely will few others. You're scary. Is this what Americans (US Citizens in this context) think of this Homeland Security thing? If so, holy fsck. Homeland Security, since its inception, has looked and sounded like a new Nazi SS. I didn't server 20 years in the US Military to have the US turned into a police state, but it looks more and more like that every day. To wit: The feds had been after a major drug manufacturer (a chemist who was making crack, etc, in large quantities). I agree he should be jailed forever. But ... The feds couldn't catch him under the normal rules, so they relabeled him a chemical weapons manufacturer and grabbed him under the new anti-terrorism laws. I'm sorry, but this abuse of power by power-hungry agencies is way beyond reasonable. While I'm glad the bastard´s in jail, I'm extremely unhappy with the way he got there. Welcome to the Police State of America (where you might be next for using Linux instead of M$). I expect the RIAA will start pushing to label file sharers as terrorists next. I'm appalled and disgusted and glad to be living outside the US at this point in time. While I respect your opinion, I find it to be rather simplistic. Here's my own. I wish that I lived in a time and place where Homeland Security were not necessary. I have yet to hear about (and I doubt that I will) of any actions taken by Homeland Security that have a negative effect on average, peace loving, hard working citizens. If the new law of the land means that we now have additional tools to eliminate the scum of the earth (the chemist fits the description), that's great. If the Homeland Security guys want my library usage record, they are welcome to it- mystery readers have little to fear. Somehow I doubt that a library reader whose only straying from the fold is to read a bomb making manual has nothing to fear. If, however, that same reader has known associations with hardline groups that advocate violence and spends most of his time with Arab/Moslem groups (non-citizens) that support Hamas (spelling?) or other Jihad groups, then I believe that Homeland Security has every reason to follow his activities closely, and I applaud their efforts. Homeland Security is scarcely the same as the Nazi SS. Where and when, pray tell, have they descended upon any innocent group of citizens, knocking heads and breaking up property? You could, however, make the case that the ATF (remember Waco) has used Nazi tactics. And besides, we have had an active Nazi SS organization for decades - the IRS grin.. -- Collins Richey - Denver Area if you fill your heart with regrets of yesterday and the worries of tomorrow, you have no today to be thankful for. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
Quoth David A. Bandel: On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:21:25 -0500 Michael Hipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] But I'm dreaming again. If that flagship of New Americanism (Dept. of Homeland Implosion) can't see it, then likely will few others. You're scary. Is this what Americans (US Citizens in this context) think of this Homeland Security thing? If so, holy fsck. Homeland Security, since its inception, has looked and sounded like a new Nazi SS. I didn't server 20 years in the US Military to have the US turned into a police state, but it looks more and more like that every day. Amen, brother. I thought we all served to prevent precisely this sort of thing. Kurt -- Lost interest? It's so bad I've lost apathy. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
On Thu, Sep 18, 2003, Ted Ozolins wrote: David A. Bandel wrote: I'm sorry, but this abuse of power by power-hungry agencies is way beyond reasonable. While I'm glad the bastard´s in jail, I'm extremely unhappy with the way he got there. Welcome to the Police State of America (where you might be next for using Linux instead of M$). I expect the RIAA will start pushing to label file sharers as terrorists next. I'm appalled and disgusted and glad to be living outside the US at this point in time. Likewise Ciao, David A. Bandel I use to travel to Spokane Wa and L.A. California on a regular basis buying various surplus test equipmemt. Since the formation of the US SS I outright refuse to travel south of the 49th. I guess most people have forgotten the lessons of the past. What a shame. Brooks Adams, grandson of John Quincy Adams, made an excellent point in his book ``Law of Civilization and Decay'', first published in 1896 (he used the term imagination to mean driven by superstition, not creative): ``Abstract justice is, of course, impossible. Law is merely the expression of the will of the strongest for the time being, and therefore laws have no fixity, but shift from generation to generation. When the imagination is vivid and police weak, emotional or ecclesiastical law prevails. As competition sharpens, and the movement of society accelerates, religious ritual is supplanted by civil codes for the enforcement of contracts and the protection of the creditor class. The more society consolidates the more legislation is controlled by the wealthy, and at length the representatives of the monied class acquire that absolute power once wielded by the Roman proconsul, and now exercised by the modern magistrate''. Bill -- INTERNET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC UUCP: camco!bill PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way FAX:(206) 232-9186 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; (206) 236-1676 URL: http://www.celestial.com/ ``The man who produces while others dispose of his product is a slave.'' Ayn Rand ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
mutilated misquotes from Ted Ozolins's 18 Sep 2003 classic prose may follow: David A. Bandel wrote: unhappy with the way he got there. Welcome to the Police State of America buying various surplus test equipmemt. Since the formation of the US SS I outright refuse to travel south of the 49th. I've always thought it hilarious (in a macabre sort of way:) that one of the initial names (iirc, they went through a number of iterations) for the Canadian clone was The Canadian Security Service. R -- http://www.quen.net Fix reason firmly in her seat and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there is one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear. --Thomas Jefferson ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
Quoth Collins Richey: On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:34:28 -0500 David A. Bandel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:21:25 -0500 Michael Hipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] But I'm dreaming again. If that flagship of New Americanism (Dept. of Homeland Implosion) can't see it, then likely will few others. You're scary. Is this what Americans (US Citizens in this context) think of this Homeland Security thing? If so, holy fsck. Homeland Security, since its inception, has looked and sounded like a new Nazi SS. I didn't server 20 years in the US Military to have the US turned into a police state, but it looks more and more like that every day. To wit: The feds had been after a major drug manufacturer (a chemist who was making crack, etc, in large quantities). I agree he should be jailed forever. But ... The feds couldn't catch him under the normal rules, so they relabeled him a chemical weapons manufacturer and grabbed him under the new anti-terrorism laws. I'm sorry, but this abuse of power by power-hungry agencies is way beyond reasonable. While I'm glad the bastard´s in jail, I'm extremely unhappy with the way he got there. Welcome to the Police State of America (where you might be next for using Linux instead of M$). I expect the RIAA will start pushing to label file sharers as terrorists next. I'm appalled and disgusted and glad to be living outside the US at this point in time. While I respect your opinion, I find it to be rather simplistic. They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 And, to quote Harry Emerson Fosdick, Liberty is always dangerous, but it is the safest thing we have. Here's my own. I wish that I lived in a time and place where Homeland Security were not necessary. I have yet to hear about (and I doubt that I will) of any actions taken by Homeland Security that have a negative effect on average, peace loving, hard working citizens. If the new law of the land means that we now have additional tools to eliminate the scum of the earth (the chemist fits the description), that's great. Those same tools are *already* being used to erode your liberty and your privacy. One example: http://www.dontspyon.us/jetbluescandal.html And the guvmint is *already* lying about it. If the Homeland Security guys want my library usage record, they are welcome to it- mystery readers have little to fear. Somehow I doubt that a library reader whose only straying from the fold is to read a bomb making manual has nothing to fear. If, however, that same reader has known associations with hardline groups that advocate violence and spends most of his time with Arab/Moslem groups (non-citizens) that support Hamas (spelling?) or other Jihad groups, then I believe that Homeland Security has every reason to follow his activities closely, and I applaud their efforts. And next you'll tell me that I have something to hide if I invoke the 5th Amendment. Bah. It isn't tracking known or suspected terrorists that bothers me. It's the proposition that because I *don't* want John Ashcroft tapping my phones, I have something to hide that bothers me. I have enough trouble in airports as it is because I have olive skin and dark eyes - the dark hair is mostly gone white. Homeland Security is scarcely the same as the Nazi SS. Where and when, pray tell, have they descended upon any innocent group of citizens, knocking heads and breaking up property? You could, however, make the case that the They haven't, yet. The SS didn't immediately go out and start cracking heads. I'm not going to wait around for my government to do something like that. I fight to prevent it from happening in the first place. ATF (remember Waco) has used Nazi tactics. And besides, we have had an active Nazi SS organization for decades - the IRS grin.. -- Collins Richey - Denver Area if you fill your heart with regrets of yesterday and the worries of tomorrow, you have no today to be thankful for. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users -- An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of purge. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
Kurt Wall wrote: Quoth Collins Richey: On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:34:28 -0500 David A. Bandel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:21:25 -0500 Michael Hipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] But I'm dreaming again. If that flagship of New Americanism (Dept. of Homeland Implosion) can't see it, then likely will few others. You're scary. Is this what Americans (US Citizens in this context) think of this Homeland Security thing? If so, holy fsck. Homeland Security, since its inception, has looked and sounded like a new Nazi SS. I didn't server 20 years in the US Military to have the US turned into a police state, but it looks more and more like that every day. To wit: The feds had been after a major drug manufacturer (a chemist who was making crack, etc, in large quantities). I agree he should be jailed forever. But ... The feds couldn't catch him under the normal rules, so they relabeled him a chemical weapons manufacturer and grabbed him under the new anti-terrorism laws. I'm sorry, but this abuse of power by power-hungry agencies is way beyond reasonable. While I'm glad the bastard´s in jail, I'm extremely unhappy with the way he got there. Welcome to the Police State of America (where you might be next for using Linux instead of M$). I expect the RIAA will start pushing to label file sharers as terrorists next. I'm appalled and disgusted and glad to be living outside the US at this point in time. While I respect your opinion, I find it to be rather simplistic. They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 And, to quote Harry Emerson Fosdick, Liberty is always dangerous, but it is the safest thing we have. Here's my own. I wish that I lived in a time and place where Homeland Security were not necessary. I have yet to hear about (and I doubt that I will) of any actions taken by Homeland Security that have a negative effect on average, peace loving, hard working citizens. If the new law of the land means that we now have additional tools to eliminate the scum of the earth (the chemist fits the description), that's great. Those same tools are *already* being used to erode your liberty and your privacy. One example: http://www.dontspyon.us/jetbluescandal.html And the guvmint is *already* lying about it. If the Homeland Security guys want my library usage record, they are welcome to it- mystery readers have little to fear. Somehow I doubt that a library reader whose only straying from the fold is to read a bomb making manual has nothing to fear. So if I read books on weapons, tactics and demolition I'm straying from the fold? I'm well capable of designing and contructing explosive devices that could level the better part of a city block. By using a wrist watch capable of storing dates and events could even set it up to go off a year from now. Does that then mean that I should fall to the US SS? There are a lot of law abiding citezens on both sides of the border that have taken an interest in various military hardware. Does that then justify wire-tapping and other violations of our rights? And next you'll tell me that I have something to hide if I invoke the 5th Amendment. Bah. They haven't, yet. The SS didn't immediately go out and start cracking heads. I'm not going to wait around for my government to do something like that. I fight to prevent it from happening in the first place. Both of my parents saw the worst of WWI and WWII and first hand witnessed the glory of the SS. Its almost funny how those that will violate or agree to violate someones rights always tote the if you have nothing to hide crap. I see now being reported by the news media that Bush has asked for even greater powers to be given to the SS so that they no longer need a court order to arrest and detain anyone suspected of terrorist involvement. If that is granted then I feel sorry for anyone with darker skin living in the USA for their rights will be shit on. -- Ted Ozolins (VE7TVO) Westbank, B. C. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
R. Quenett wrote: mutilated misquotes from Ted Ozolins's 18 Sep 2003 classic prose may follow: David A. Bandel wrote: unhappy with the way he got there. Welcome to the Police State of America buying various surplus test equipmemt. Since the formation of the US SS I outright refuse to travel south of the 49th. I've always thought it hilarious (in a macabre sort of way:) that one of the initial names (iirc, they went through a number of iterations) for the Canadian clone was The Canadian Security Service. R How on this planet or any other planet do you figure CSIS as a clone of HS. If you had likened it to the FBI or the CIA perhaps, but the HS wow! it must be good stuff your consuming there. -- Ted Ozolins (VE7TVO) Westbank, B. C. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
Ted Ozolins wrote: If that is granted then I feel sorry for anyone with darker skin living in the USA for their rights will be shit on. Yes. Or any of the other oppressible groups like, for example, white males, gun owners, farmers, SUV drivers, conservative Christians, hunters, fishermen, members of wacky religious cults, anyone who doesn't vote Democratic, home schoolers, etc. (I thought we were talking about Microsoft?) Michael ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
It would be easy just to unload your MS stock. Apple, for example, rose about 50% in the last several months. MS has been a laggard, and promises to remain so. It is just too big to keep on growing. Joel On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 08:16:17AM -0400, dep wrote: quoth Matthew Carpenter: | They haven't drawn the conclusion that the initial outage was caused | by it, but there are reports (computerworld I believe) that MSBlast | was responsible for clogging the network pipe between power stations | used to avoid the cascading effect. The cascade-avoidance system | simply couldn't do it's job... | | I agree that it probably STARTED there as well... and ultimately it's gonna come down something like this: a crack of a major hospital or nuke plant is going to kill many or seriously endanger millions. it will be due to microsoft software. there will be an outraged response. what will the effect be? controls in the internet, probably. what it *won't* be is serious action against microsoft, even though their stuff is not only demonstrably dangerous but widely known to be dangerous. (the obvious corrective action, of course, would be to ban permanent connection to the internet of any machine running microsoftware.) there is no one to whom this is a mystery. yet such action as has been taken against microsoft on any point has been very weak. why? because the effects of a microsoft collapse would certainly be vast and severe -- far worse than the combined costs of all the attacks so far. microsoft is a very widely held security. those of us who have company stock-based retirement plans, 401ks, or any of a variety of mutual funds own microsoft stock. it really is a big player economically. so dealing with the microsoft problem *must* include some way of dealing with the substantial financial problem that handling the software problem would entail. it's easy to say screw 'em, but that aintagonna happen. it's a real mess. -- dep Writing takes no time. It's finding something to say that takes forever. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 09:34:28AM -0500, David A. Bandel wrote: You're scary. Is this what Americans (US Citizens in this context) think of this Homeland Security thing? If so, holy fsck. I hope you got to see the photo posted recently on Powerline from 9/11 of the man falling, rather jumping, headfirst from a burning tower. Now, that picture scares me. Of course, Hitler had the Reichstag fire, but, I think the Trade Center was an attack by a hostile force and not, as some claim, a phony attack planed by the CIA to justify abrogation of our civil liberties. Since none of us really knows what is in the Patriot Act (including those who voted for it), I am awaiting events before I make any judgements. Joel ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
On 18 Sep 2003 at 10:56, Collins Richey boldly uttered: Homeland Security is scarcely the same as the Nazi SS. Where and when, pray tell, have they descended upon any innocent group of citizens, knocking heads and breaking up property? The US government has already been detaining people simply because they are of middle eastern descent. There was quite an uproar in Southern California about this, and not by the people who are in danger (because they're afraid of the consequences) but from other citizens who are appalled by the police-state tactics. There have actually been a number of politicians who have suggested we need to re-institute internment camps, just like we had in WWII. According to most historians, that was a pretty dark day in the US's history, and here we have community leaders merrilly suggesting we do it again. Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. --Hermann Goering (1893 - 1946), at the Nuremburg Trials -- Philip J. Koenig [EMAIL PROTECTED] Electric Kahuna Systems -- Computers Communications for the New Millenium ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:59:46 -0400 dep [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quoth Philip J. Koenig: | On 18 Sep 2003 at 10:56, Collins Richey boldly uttered: | Homeland Security is scarcely the same as the Nazi SS. Where and | when, pray tell, have they descended upon any innocent group of | citizens, knocking heads and breaking up property? | | The US government has already been detaining people simply because | they are of middle eastern descent. Except for the Oklahoma City incident, I can't think of a single terrorist activity in the past 10 years that was not perpetrated by young Arab/Moslem males. If the US government is detaining non-citizens of middle eastern descent, that is unfortunate but maybe necessary. The bastards who created 9/11 were certainly of middle eastern descent, and I would think that even you would wish that they had been detained! If the US government is detaining US citizens, that is another matter entirely. Even in that case, if these people have proven associations with terrorist organizations, I have no problem with that. | | There have actually been a number of politicians who have suggested | we need to re-institute internment camps, just like we had in WWII. | | According to most historians, that was a pretty dark day in the US's | history, and here we have community leaders merrilly suggesting we | do it again. seems as if your allegations above are a little shy of specifics. which politicians have been suggesting the camps? where are the citations thereof? who are the most historians of whom you speak, and where do historians register their view so that we can know that all historians have been heard? i'm not at all certain that anything except the reputation of california is cemented by repeating wild and generally erroneous doobietalk of the sort you have proffered. -- Amen, brother. -- Collins Richey - Denver Area if you fill your heart with regrets of yesterday and the worries of tomorrow, you have no today to be thankful for. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 03:33:34PM -0700, Philip J. Koenig wrote: There have actually been a number of politicians who have suggested we need to re-institute internment camps, just like we had in WWII. According to most historians, that was a pretty dark day in the US's history, and here we have community leaders merrilly suggesting we do it again. Yes, but FDR, who signed the order, has become a big ICON in the American memory, so, I guess it wasn't so bad. Earl Warren, also of great repute among those who call themselves enlightened, also had a hand in it. I used to think this internment was pretty bad, too, but I recently read some more and have had some second thoughts. Basically, there was a lot more going on than most people think today. Some items: 1. Japan invaded multiple areas in the Pacific at the outset of the war with the USA. Every place they went, there were agents in place, sleepers, under the guise of legimate businessmen and the like. This included such unlikely places as Guadalcanal. How could you prove there were no agents among the Japanese-Americans? How much resources would have been required to monitor the Japanese-Americans if they were left free? Would that have impacted the war effort? Everyday of the war a couple of hundred men were killed or wounded, even if no major fighting was going on. Ending the war a month sooner would have saved many American (and many, many, other) lives. 2. I read a book writen by a PT boat captain in the Phillipines at the outset of the war. The first day of the war their PT boat was immoblized. When they took apart the engine they found someone had put sand into the main fuel tank at their dock. I wonder who? 3. It is told to us that the Japanese only had one agent spying on the US Fleet in Pearl Harbor prior to their attack. Now, this is ridiculous. The entire Japanese war plan depended on neutralizing the US Fleet on the first day of the war. If that failed, the entire Japanese plan of expansion into the Pacific would have been impossible. Now, who thinks that the Japanese, who planned their operations with meticulous care, would have staked everything on one agent? And, who do you think helped this Japanese spy to operate in Hiwaii? How did he manage to communicate with Tokyo? Who gave him cover? 4. I have not heard or read of one person held in those interment camps who was raped or murdered. This is a great improvement over the record of similar camps run by the Japanese govt. BTW, the mistrust of the Japanese (and Japanese Americans) was so great in the American government, that the entire effort at breaking the Japanese military and diplomatic codes, which was a great success, was done without any input from Japanese-Americans. That is, not a single native speaker of Japanese was trusted to be involved with this effort. If such an exclusion were done today against Arab Americans, there would be an outcry, but, would security be compromised? The US won the war against Japan, unconditionally. Joel ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
David A. Bandel wrote: On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:21:25 -0500 Michael Hipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] has looked and sounded like a new Nazi SS. I didn't server 20 years in the US Military to have the US turned into a police state, but it looks more and more like that every day. Ciao, David A. Bandel It is more than chilling to watch Ascroft's sneering attitude as he gives his recent speeches. I don't want religious fanatics having so much power. I am of a mind that I should turn over America to my children as I found it, not this neo-America I live in now. The future isn't what is used to be. Terry ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
quoth Terry Bassett: | It is more than chilling to watch Ascroft's sneering attitude as | he gives his recent speeches. I don't want religious fanatics having | so much power. I am of a mind that I should turn over America to my | children as I found it, not this neo-America I live in now. The | future isn't what is used to be. perhaps you could be of some help here, providing some examples of ashcroft's religious fanaticism -- i keep hearing about it and keep watching for it, but he somehow seems to manifest it only when i'm not watching. as to your having found america -- i do not know your age but am given to understand that it was found long before the birth of anyone presently alive. and again, it would be great if you could provide some examples of the neo-America to which you refer. and, post-clinton, is isn't what is used to be. -- dep Writing takes no time. It's finding something to say that takes forever. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
On Thu, 2003-09-18 at 15:38, Michael Hipp wrote: (I thought we were talking about Microsoft?) Actually, we are. -- burns ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
David A. Bandel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:34:28 -0500 On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:21:25 -0500 Michael Hipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] But I'm dreaming again. If that flagship of New Americanism (Dept. of Homeland Implosion) can't see it, then likely will few others. You're scary. Is this what Americans (US Citizens in this context) think of this Homeland Security thing? If so, holy fsck. I have to wonder if the solution to all our problems is more bureaucrats. The only thing scarier is an efficient bureaucracy. My Dad, who grew up in East Germany until the wall went up, is scared. He is familiar with the real SS and, even worse, the Russians. I am not real sure what the options are. It is not a Dem. vs GOP thing, it is a government vs citizen thing. Our watchdog NGO's are more concerned with crosses on government property (Arlington will be next) than any freedoms promised in the constitution. Thanks to our wonderful foreign policy over the past two decades, there are a small group of nuts who want to kill me bacause of where I was born. The economy is not real great anywhere either. I try to work with the system but it feels like climbing uphill in peanut butter. The line from Casablanca is They're sleeping everywhere in America. Heaven help us. /scared dungless Homeland Security, since its inception, has looked and sounded like a new Nazi SS. I didn't server 20 years in the US Military to have the US turned into a police state, but it looks more and more like that every day. To wit: The feds had been after a major drug manufacturer (a chemist who was making crack, etc, in large quantities). I agree he should be jailed forever. But ... The feds couldn't catch him under the normal rules, so they relabeled him a chemical weapons manufacturer and grabbed him under the new anti-terrorism laws. I'm sorry, but this abuse of power by power-hungry agencies is way beyond reasonable. While I'm glad the bastard´s in jail, I'm extremely unhappy with the way he got there. Welcome to the Police State of America (where you might be next for using Linux instead of M$). I expect the RIAA will start pushing to label file sharers as terrorists next. I'm appalled and disgusted and glad to be living outside the US at this point in time. -- Alma Sure the US constitution has its flaws, but it is a damned sight better than what we have now. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
Quoth Collins Richey: [...] My last post in this thread. Except for the Oklahoma City incident, I can't think of a single terrorist activity in the past 10 years that was not perpetrated by young Arab/Moslem males. If the US government is detaining non-citizens of middle eastern descent, that is unfortunate but maybe necessary. The bastards who created 9/11 were certainly of middle eastern descent, and I would think that even you would wish that they had been detained! If the US government is detaining US citizens, that is another matter entirely. Even in that case, if these people have proven associations with terrorist organizations, I have no problem with that. How long before they come for *you*, Collins? Kurt -- The sooner all the animals are dead, the sooner we'll find their money. -- Ed Bluestone, The National Lampoon ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
dep wrote: quoth Terry Bassett: | It is more than chilling to watch Ascroft's sneering attitude as... providing some examples of ashcroft's religious fanaticism -- i keep hearing about it and keep watching for it, post-clinton, is isn't what is used to be... Ah, sir your rapier wit pierces me mightily. But have you not heard Ashcroft speeches to church groups, professing to stop abortions on religious grounds, or perhaps that sounds reseaonable to you. If the Government can rule over a womans belly then there really is no limit to their power. It is only a tiny step to watch your bedroom or your living room or your outdoor activities. All of which can be done under the current Patriot Act. Ascroft's church speech was on C-span as I recall. The neo-America is the one I live in today. It was not born because of 9/11 but of events a few days later, when the decisions were made to create the new entity of Homeland security. It is the extremely powerful new form of counter-terrorism formed to be used here in America, in the name of National Security. The CIA now has its own private Army. The last time they had a private army, they ended up to their necks in the Golden Triangle drug trade and even weather modification experiments in Southeast Asia. Things have already ran out of control is what I am saying. Currently further additions to the Patriot Act are in the offing and will only make the neo-America harder to remove from power. And, yes I wrote a mis-formed sentence, if you read it as though I was here at the start of the Republic. My relatives were though, maybe I just feel a certain ownership towards the America of my ancestors and would like to pass on the essence of that America to my children. Terry Bassett ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
quoth Kurt Wall: | How long before they come for *you*, Collins? they did, and for you, too. on september 11, 2001. only he and you weren't there. -- dep Writing takes no time. It's finding something to say that takes forever. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
quoth Terry Bassett: | Ah, sir your rapier wit pierces me mightily. keep trying and you'll be able to do this, too. you're already halfway there. | But have you not heard | Ashcroft speeches to church groups, professing to stop abortions on | religious grounds, or perhaps that sounds reseaonable to you. no, i haven't. i don't attend his church. perhaps you can point me to a transcript of one of those speeches. | If the | Government can rule over a womans belly then there really is no limit | to their power. that is specious on its face. of course the government can rule over such things. the issue is the circumstance under which one is allowed to kill somebody else. the issue is not a woman's control over her own body -- her failure to do that is what created what she now perceives to be a problem. which isn't to say that that has anything to do with this list. | It is only a tiny step to watch your bedroom or your | living room or your outdoor activities. that rather depends, don't you suppose? if my outdoor activities include shooting random passers by, one would hope the government would get involved. if i spend time in my bedroom building bombs, the government has an interest in that, too. |All of which can be done under the current Patriot Act. absolutely not so. | Ascroft's church speech was on C-span as I recall. i have no reason to supoose your recollection is better than your reasoning. |The neo-America is the one I live in today. It was not | born because of 9/11 but of events a few days later, when the | decisions were made to create the new entity of Homeland security. | It is the extremely powerful new form of counter-terrorism formed to | be used here in America, in the name of National Security. The CIA | now has its own private Army. The last time they had a private army, | they ended up to their necks in the Golden Triangle drug trade and | even weather modification experiments in Southeast Asia. Things have | already ran out of control is what I am saying. Currently further | additions to the Patriot Act are in the offing and will only make the | neo-America harder to remove from power. jeeezus! what a steaming heap of paranoid raving! there is not a shred of evidence anywhere to support any of the above. | And, yes I wrote a mis-formed sentence, if you read it as though | I was here at the start of the Republic. My relatives were though, | maybe I just feel a certain ownership towards the America of my | ancestors and would like to pass on the essence of that America to my | children. well, i'll see you and raise you fifty as d.a.r. fodder, which is beside the point. nobody fought and died for this country to make it possible for ill-informed pantywaists to whine and lie about their country. but this thread was about microsoft corporation. you might want to take the other part of the discussion to alt.paranoia.when.geeks.think.they.are.cool. -- dep Writing takes no time. It's finding something to say that takes forever. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:02:14 -0700 Ted Ozolins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kurt Wall wrote: Quoth Collins Richey: [...] My last post in this thread. dito Except for the Oklahoma City incident, I can't think of a single terrorist activity in the past 10 years that was not perpetrated by young Arab/Moslem males. If the US government is detaining non-citizens of middle eastern descent, that is unfortunate but maybe necessary. The bastards who created 9/11 were certainly of middle eastern descent, and I would think that even youwould wish that they had been detained! If the US government is detaining UScitizens, that is another matter entirely. Even in that case, if these peoplehave proven associations with terrorist organizations, I have no problem withthat. How long before they come for *you*, Collins? Kurt Dang it Kurt, you beat me to the punch! Amen to that. I, too, shall have to retire from this thread. I must say that Dep's reply was best. You gentlemen may believe as you wish. The forces of evil in the world are the ones who are coming for us. These forces don't care whether you now have only 50% of the rights you used to have. These forces want to see smoking hulks like the trade center everywhere in America and to remove 100% of your rights, most especially those of women. The Homeland Security agency and the other security agencies are now working better together, and that comforts me. They (Homeland Security) are not and will not be coming for you and me. They have the thankless task of protecting you and me from those who hate us. How long would it take before the next attack, if the policy of screening people of middle eastern descent were dropped? I certainly would not feel safer or freer. If the record were such that recent atrocities were committed exlusively by bald headed old men with beards (like myself), I would still want the agency to screen to the profile. I agree with Franklin et al. that freedom is important, but which is better - half a loaf or no loaf at all? Unless the Homeland Security agents do their work well, the Mullahs would be all too happy to see that we get no loaf at all. -- Collins Richey - Denver Area if you fill your heart with regrets of yesterday and the worries of tomorrow, you have no today to be thankful for. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
I am sending this to both lists due to the discussion not moving to 'general' where it shouild be by now. Doubtless Doug will step in shortly and wield the stick, or will Meinherr Kurt enbolden himself: befelen ist befelen grin. Being that I am an Australian 'looking in', I think the term SS was a misnomer and an ill advised usage. If we are to equate apples with apples then the Geheimstatzpolitzi : Gestapo would be a better choice of words. However most internal intelligence agencies then and now: again wartime abwer (the spelling is incorrect but the memory is faulty) was a nearer example to MI6, CIA and NSA than any other german organisation. I am sure as Alma says that you would know the difference if you had the Satzi or Gestapo instead of what you do have. Yes we do have a sort of 'Big Brother' system looking over our shoulders these days, but no one, as far as I know, sees friends or relatives disappear overnight, not to be seen ever again. Mind you I am also sure that in both the US and UK, it could be arranged it the right political atmosphere was present. It is up to each and everyone to make sure it does not. With what I see on TV: that which is fed to us is mostly what the estabishment both wants us to see and act on (propaganda). The recent Iraqi incident, the lead up to it and the brave poiticians (sheep) who followed: Australia and the UK are as much to blame for the outcome as is The Bush administration. Again as Alma said, she is scared: that is exactly what the politicians and the terrorists want us to be, so as we can be controlled/cajoled. From the age of 6 to 22 I was either bombed, shot at, ordered to kill or be mindless. I left the UK because I was sick of all that. Now I have no fear of terrorism and have nothing but contempt for politicians and government. The intelligence services have been self serving in the past and I cannot see them changing now, no matter what name they have. Having typed all that 'bilge water' my arthritis is not giving me hell in both shoulders, my fingers are tired, as for my [EMAIL PROTECTED]^%(*^) @[EMAIL PROTECTED]@^ (noise) -- Keith Antoine (GANDALF) aka 'SKIPPY' 18 Arkana St, The Gap, Queensland 4061, Australia:: PH:61733002161 Practising Geriatric, Retired Electronics Engineer, Knowall, Brain in storage ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:56:38 -0600 Collins Richey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Moving this to general list where it belongs. ;-) [snip] While I respect your opinion, I find it to be rather simplistic. gee, thanx. Here's my own. I wish that I lived in a time and place where Homeland Security were not necessary. I have yet to hear about (and I doubt that I will) of any actions taken by Homeland Security that have a negative effect on average, peace loving, hard working citizens. If the new law of the land means that we now have additional tools to eliminate the scum of the earth (the chemist fits the description), that's great. No, what we have are abuses of liberty and elimination of privacy. I think the chemist belongs under the jail. But abrogating what would have been his rights under pre-HS laws means we've eroded our freedoms. These laws increase significantly the likelihood that an innocent man will spend years in prison. Our system was built on the proposition that that should not happen, better 10 guilty men go free. I won't go so far as to wish that you or your be that one innocent man, but think about it. If the Homeland Security guys want my library usage record, they are welcome to it- mystery readers have little to fear. Somehow I doubt that a library reader whose only straying from the fold is to read a bomb making manual has nothing to fear. If, however, that same reader has known associations with hardline groups that advocate violence and spends most of his time with Arab/Moslem groups(non-citizens) that support Hamas (spelling?) or other Jihad groups, then I believe that Homeland Security has every reason to follow his activities closely, and I applaud their efforts. Ben Franklin(?) said something about the man who would trade freedom for security deserves neither. I agree. And I volunteered my life every day for 20+ years to back it up. This HS makes that sacrifice seem irrelevant. Homeland Security is scarcely the same as the Nazi SS. Where and when, pray tell, have they descended upon any innocent group of citizens, knocking heads and breaking up property? You could, however, make the case that the ATF (remember Waco) has used Nazi tactics. And besides, we have had an active Nazi SS organization for decades - the IRS grin.. The new laws and powers being granted to already too powerful agencies ought to make anyone stop and think. It certainly makes me stop and think -- and shiver. I don't want to be that one innocent man either. Ciao, David A. Bandel -- Focus on the dream, not the competition. Nemesis Racing Team motto GPG key autoresponder: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
quoth Michael Hipp: | http://apnews.excite.com/article/20030916/D7TJP93G0.html | | By TED BRIDIS | | WASHINGTON (AP) - Security researchers on Tuesday detected hackers | distributing software to break into computers using flaws announced | last week in some versions of Microsoft Corp. (MSFT)'s Windows | operating system. i still highly suspect that the august 14 blackout here (and in much of the country east of the mississippi and north of the south) is due to somebody cracking a windows box someplace. -- dep Dotcoms were based on the mathematical idea that if you multiply zero by a sufficiently large number, you've got something. -- Douglas Adams ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
Wouldn't it be great if people starting saying, enuf is enuf. Maybe if people whose computers were cracked and taken over by hackers faced legal sanctions (fines, suspension of service, etc.), they would take responsibility to fix up their boxes. Now, the lazy bones (or is it brain dead?) windows users just sit and get hit like sitting ducks. I guess they expect MS to protect them, even if they do nothing to protect themselves. I guess brain dead users are just to valuable to drive off the internet. Just like Scott Adams said, stupidity is the limitless energy supply of the 21th century. Joel On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 10:38:44PM -0500, Michael Hipp wrote: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20030916/D7TJP93G0.html By TED BRIDIS WASHINGTON (AP) - Security researchers on Tuesday detected hackers distributing software to break into computers using flaws announced last week in some versions of Microsoft Corp. (MSFT)'s Windows operating system. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
On Wednesday 17 September 2003 18:38 pm, Joel Hammer wrote: Wouldn't it be great if people starting saying, enuf is enuf. Maybe if people whose computers were cracked and taken over by hackers faced legal sanctions (fines, suspension of service, etc.), they would take responsibility to fix up their boxes. Now, the lazy bones (or is it brain dead?) windows users just sit and get hit like sitting ducks. I guess they expect MS to protect them, even if they do nothing to protect themselves. I guess brain dead users are just to valuable to drive off the internet. Just like Scott Adams said, stupidity is the limitless energy supply of the 21th century. Joel I agree. Wouldn't it be nice if the HSA determined that all the flaws in MS software was the real security threat that it is? My guess is that it would take a group of about 5 hackers, determined to bring the Internet to its knees, about 5 days to do so.. But they would probably find better ways to destroy us than a DOS attack. (and my estimate is probably off by at least a factor of 2) On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 10:38:44PM -0500, Michael Hipp wrote: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20030916/D7TJP93G0.html By TED BRIDIS WASHINGTON (AP) - Security researchers on Tuesday detected hackers distributing software to break into computers using flaws announced last week in some versions of Microsoft Corp. (MSFT)'s Windows operating system. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users -- ++ + Bruce S. Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bellaire, MI 09/17/03 18:48 + ++ Never hit a man with glasses; hit him with your fist. ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
They haven't drawn the conclusion that the initial outage was caused by it, but there are reports (computerworld I believe) that MSBlast was responsible for clogging the network pipe between power stations used to avoid the cascading effect. The cascade-avoidance system simply couldn't do it's job... I agree that it probably STARTED there as well... On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 06:10:28 -0400 dep [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quoth Michael Hipp: | http://apnews.excite.com/article/20030916/D7TJP93G0.html | | By TED BRIDIS | | WASHINGTON (AP) - Security researchers on Tuesday detected hackers | distributing software to break into computers using flaws announced | last week in some versions of Microsoft Corp. (MSFT)'s Windows | operating system. i still highly suspect that the august 14 blackout here (and in much of the country east of the mississippi and north of the south) is due to somebody cracking a windows box someplace. -- dep Dotcoms were based on the mathematical idea that if you multiply zero by a sufficiently large number, you've got something. -- Douglas Adams ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users -- Matthew Carpenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.eisgr.com/ Enterprise Information Systems * Network Server Appliances * Network Consulting, Integration Support * Web Integration and E-Business ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
Re: OT: Here we go again ...
Blaster Worm Linked to Severity of Blackout http://www.computerworld.com/databasetopics/data/story/0,10801,84519,00.html On the day of the blackout, Blaster degraded the performance of several communications lines linking key data centers used by utility companies to manage the power grid Which in geek-speak is: Our network was so f#$%ed over by Blaster that the machines, like, couldn't do the protocol On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:54:27 -0400 Matthew Carpenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They haven't drawn the conclusion that the initial outage was caused by it, but there are reports (computerworld I believe) that MSBlast was responsible for clogging the network pipe between power stations used to avoid the cascading effect. The cascade-avoidance system simply couldn't do it's job... I agree that it probably STARTED there as well... On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 06:10:28 -0400 dep [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quoth Michael Hipp: | http://apnews.excite.com/article/20030916/D7TJP93G0.html | | By TED BRIDIS | | WASHINGTON (AP) - Security researchers on Tuesday detected hackers | distributing software to break into computers using flaws announced | last week in some versions of Microsoft Corp. (MSFT)'s Windows | operating system. i still highly suspect that the august 14 blackout here (and in much of the country east of the mississippi and north of the south) is due to somebody cracking a windows box someplace. -- dep Dotcoms were based on the mathematical idea that if you multiply zero by a sufficiently large number, you've got something. -- Douglas Adams ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users -- Matthew Carpenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.eisgr.com/ Enterprise Information Systems * Network Server Appliances * Network Consulting, Integration Support * Web Integration and E-Business ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users -- Matthew Carpenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.eisgr.com/ Enterprise Information Systems * Network Server Appliances * Network Consulting, Integration Support * Web Integration and E-Business ___ Linux-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe/Suspend/Etc - http://www.linux-sxs.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-users
