RE: [WSG] best way to style the Tags?
This is what we used on yahoo tech. it's not the most semantic, but it gave us the flexibility we needed and is easy to use ul class=yttagcloud lia href=/rc/camcorders/113 class=tcknightCamcorders/a/li lia href=/rc/car-tech/114 class=tcserfCar Tech/a/li lia href=/rc/cell-phones/101 class=tcknightCell Phones/a/li lia href=/rc/desktops/102 class=tcknightDesktops/a/li lia href=/rc/digital-cameras/103 class=tclordDigital Cameras/a/li ... /ul -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frances Berriman Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 2:49 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] best way to style the Tags? On 11/6/06, Tee G. Peng [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, What would be the best and creative way to style the tags? I don't know about best or most creative. Depends on your design I suppose. You know, like those big small, very big, very small words under the 'tags' title. You mean more specifically tag clouds? I vaguely remember reading something that tags are invented by technorati, so I went to pay a visit, and totally clueless when I see these in the markup: liememememememememememememememema href=/tag/BushBush/a/em/em/em/em/em/em/em/em/ em/em/em/em/em/em/em/li liemememema href=/tag/ComedyComedy/a/em/em/em/ em/li liememememememememema href=/tag/ DemocratsDemocrats/a/em/em/em/em/em/em/em/em/ em/li liememememememememememema href=/tag/ ElectionElection/a/em/em/em/em/em/em/em/em/em/ em/em/li liemememememememememememema href=/tag/ ElectionsElections/a/em/em/em/em/em/em/em/em/ em/em/em/em/li What the hell with all those em In this situation, the nested em's are being used to give greater emphasis to those tags most used and the CSS styling probably reflects this with font-sizing and colouring. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] IE6 - IE7
I don't get the paranoia. IE7 is much more secure than IE6. If you don't like IE7, you can simply uninstall it and ie6 is restored after a reboot. As a web dev, you need to install IE7 and test your sites. Ignoring it isn't going to help your web development. Ted -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 9:38 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] IE6 - IE7 John Faulds wrote: On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:52:17 +1000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rahul Gonsalves wrote: I will not be allowing IE7 to be installed on my main computer, until most of the bugs have been worked out, and a couple of security updates have been applied :-). how do you go about doing this? Do you mean how to prevent IE7 being installed via automatic updates? http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=4516A6F7-5D44-482B- 9DBD-869B4A90159Cdisplaylang=en thanks for the link. i missed it the first time. too big of a hurry i guess. dwain *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to
I've had significant, if not too much experience with IE7 and transparent
png behaviors.
http://last-child.com/index.php?s=ie7+transparent+png
Here's what I would suggest.
IE6 is going to become a minor player for the majority of web sites within a
year. Microsoft has an aggressive schedule planned to get people to upgrade
to IE7. There are significant security issues that have been solved with the
new browser and it is going to be a high priority upgrade. That said, you
need to code your css for IE7, not IE6.
When it comes to transparent png images, IE7 will behave the same as firefox
and Safari as of IE7 RC1. The bug I reported with the transparent png
sprites has been fixed. You should create an IE6 style sheet and import
that via a conditional comment: I have found that IE7 still needs you to
invoke hasLayout and the double margin float bug. You could either create a
new IE7 specific style sheet or add a couple innocuous styles to your main
style sheet.
To invoke hasLayout use {zoom:1}. Don't use height:1% anymore. IE7 will
treat that correctly.
To avoid double margin float issue, add {display:inline;} to your floated
objects.
Other than that, you may have some box-model issues left in your IE7 style
sheet. Personally, I'm a fan of keeping your hacks out of the main style
sheet. However, it is an extra http:request for the majority of your
customers. That is a trade off you need to evaluate.
Here's the conditional comment code
! -[if IE 7]
link href=/css/ie7.css type=text/css rel=stylesheet media=all/
![endif]-
! -[if lte IE 6]
link href=/css/ie6.css type=text/css rel=stylesheet media=all/
![endif]-
You can hack inside your style sheets to target IE6, IE7, and both at the
same time.
http://www.last-child.com/ie7-hacks/
If you need to send something to IE6 and nothing else: use the underscore
attribute hack (_border:1px solid pink;) If you want to send something to
IE7 AND IE6, use the *attribute hack (*border:1px solid black;). If you want
to send something to IE7 and NOT IE6, use a combination (*border:1px solid
black; _border:1px solid pink;).
Ted Drake
www.last-child.com
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RE: [WSG] z-index with ie
IE6 and z-index issues are enough to make
Fabio go bald.
IE6 looks not only at the z-index of bob
and sue but the z-index of their parents. Does that make sense?
If you want bob to sit on top of sue, Bobs
parent container needs to have a higher z-index than sues parents.
It becomes an ugly game of keeping up with
the Jones family.
http://www.last-child.com/conflicting-z-index-in-ie6/
when you come across a z-indexed element
that needs to sit on top of a select box, you better hope Bobs
grandparents are rich and famous because it takes a hell of a lot of
connections to fix this nightmare.
Hedger Wang has a solution http://www.last-child.com/hedger-wang-is-god-well-a-guru-at-least/
Or you could use the Yahoo User Interface
library. The container library handles this for you.
Ted
From:
listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Able Net Design
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006
1:12 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] z-index with ie
Hi,
I'm playing with z-index's for a site I am buildings. In FF
there is not a problem the site looks exactly how I would expect it to look but
when you view it in IE nothing is right.
div#header {background:
#ff; height:
80px;
position: static; z-index:1;}
div#header img {position:
relative; border:
0; margin:
0; padding:
0; width:
150px;
height: 150px; z-index:
2; float:
right; bottom:
25px;
right: 25px;}
I have been reading about an issue with position:relative
and z-index
with IE but can't seem to finda solution.
Any ideas?
Kind Regards,
Tristan
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RE: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to
No no no no no Don't use * html! That won't work. If you need to separate the browsers, use *border and _border on the individual styles. Ted -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jan Brasna Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 9:21 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to ! -[if IE 7] link href=/css/ie7.css type=text/css rel=stylesheet media=all/ ![endif]- ! -[if lte IE 6] link href=/css/ie6.css type=text/css rel=stylesheet media=all/ ![endif]- I'd go for the option of one IE-stylesheet with separating the browsers inside (direct selectors for IE7-specific issues, * html foo for IE6- etc.). -- Jan Brasna :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com | www.wdnews.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to
Technically, I can see you using the * html inside an IE only style sheet. However, it is a bad idea to use it in general. There are a lot of sites breaking because people depended on *html, many I've built included. When I see someone suggest using it, my gut reaction is to say, no. Don't use *html because it is an outdated hack. Use conditional comments and if you have to use a hack, the *property and _property are two hacks that can be used dependably with IE6 and IE7 Ted -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jan Brasna Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:41 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to Don't use * html! That won't work. How comes? You maybe didn't understand what I meant. -- Jan Brasna :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com | www.wdnews.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to
I would still advise that you use the *property/_property hack instead of * html. I don't have anything to point to other than some discussions with the IE7 folks and it's what they recommend. Well, they're not going to recommend any hacking. But they downplay * html. I'd prefer to go with something that has unofficial head nodding than something they plead that people don't use. Who knows what future problems may come with *html? Ted -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Faulds - Tyssen Design Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 3:32 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to Technically, I can see you using the * html inside an IE only style sheet. I've been doing that a bit lately as sometimes there may be only one or two rules that are different between = 6 or 7 and it doesn't seem worth the effort creating a separate stylesheet for both and then conditional comments to call the two when * html will do the job just the same. -- Tyssen Design Web print design services www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] quick question
Hi All Im working on a hack and need to know what the default colors are, when you remove all css. I completely forget. I need a, a;hover, a:visited, and a:active. I could browser forever, but thought someone would know off the top of their heads. Other than disabling backgrounds, setting text to 000, adding underlines, what else should go into an uber color reset style sheet? Thanks Ted Drake Yahoo! Tech - Tech Made Easy Member of the Yahoo! Accessibility Stakeholders Group October 3 Product Forum Discussion - Don't miss Mike Shebanek discuss Apple's VoiceOver screen reader integration. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] quick question
Hi All
Thanks for the answers. I'm working on a hack to allow users to disable all
colors, increase font-size, and more. Sure, we know how to use control+ or
use the web dev toolbar to do so, but how about joe shmoe?
That's what I was asking about. I was creating a style sheet that over-rode
all of our pretty background images, colors, and font colors.
The reset.css just removes margins. Here's the styles by the way.
/*this css file will reset the colors to the default settings */
* {background:#fff!important; color:#000!important;}
a:link {color:#00c!important; text-decoration:underline!important;}
a:visited {color:#639!important; text-decoration:underline!important;}
a:hover {color:#00c!important; text-decoration:none!important;}
a:active{color:#f00!important; text-decoration:underline!important;}
I took a wee bit of creative license.
I don't know if this will work or not, there's still some work to do.
Ted
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Rahul Gonsalves
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 7:10 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] quick question
Ted Drake wrote:
Hi All
I'm working on a hack and need to know what the default colors are, when
you
remove all css.
I completely forget.
I need a, a;hover, a:visited, and a:active.
I could browser forever, but thought someone would know off the top of
their
heads.
Other than disabling backgrounds, setting text to 000, adding underlines,
what else should go into an uber color reset style sheet?
Thanks
Ted Drake
Hi Ted, at Yahoo-Inc,
Why don't you just use the YUI reset.css?
- Rahul.
--
Rahul Gonsalves (Personal)
w: www.rahulgonsalves.com
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
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RE: [WSG] How to align images at the *bottom* with CSS?
Try vertical-align:bottom
As in p img {vertical-align:bottom}
Ted
-Original Message-
Hi everybody,
I have a block with an smaller image inside.
I'd liked to align the image at the *bottom* of the block...
How can I do it with CSS?
Thanks for your help!
Antonio
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RE: [WSG] How to align images at the *bottom* with CSS?
My suggestion ( p img {vertical-align:bottom }) makes it easier to align an
image with a string of text. Matthew's is better for placing an image in a
block, which is what your were asking for.
However, Id suggest avoid vague positioning. i.e. dont use
background-position:bottom. Use background-position:0 100%; instead. The
same for your positioning, use bottom:0, left:0
Ive worked on a number of large sites that change over the course of time
and vague positioning falls apart when someone updates the image 6 months
from now. Or tries to over ride it later on with a more specific rule. Its
just a good practice to define your positioning specifically.
Ted Drake
www.last-child.com
On Behalf Of Carlos Carreo
background-position: bottom;
Matthew Pennell a écrit :
On 9/13/06, Antonio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have a block with an smaller image inside.
I'd liked to align the image at the *bottom* of the block...
How can I do it with CSS?
#block {
position: relative;
}
#block img {
position: absolute;
bottom: 0;
}
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RE: [WSG] Target.com case moves forward
Hi Micky You need to show good faith effort to make your site accessible. Target was warned 6 months prior to the initial filing that they had significant problems and suggestions were given to fix them. The Target site did not make it difficult to use, it made it impossible for a blind person to purchase and get online-only discounts. Those are the two issues, are you making a good faith effort and are you providing services to everyone regardless of ability. If your newspaper can show that they've made an honest effort to fix accessibility issues, they should be safe. Those basic steps would include adding alternate text to images and making sure your only navigational elements are not hidden behind javascript, flash, and/or image based without alt attributes. If your paper is still suffering from these elements, it's your duty as a professional web developer to make the adjustments. It will also provide your paper with better search engine results. Ted http://www.last-child.com -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Micky Hulse ... I work for a/the local newspaper company and it would be hell to try and make everything accessible... so many different departments doing different things to the site - not to mention the old-school programmers that could care less about accessibility. Also, all of the third-party scripts we have going would make any type standards upgrade nearly impossible. I would hate to own an e-commerce company that was in the same boat as above... If that ruling passes, I would like to see some sort of grandfather clause, or at least some sort of grace period. ... Am I missing the point here? Cheers, Micky *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] unsubscribe
This reminds me of an email a couple years ago, I think it was to this list. Someone sent a message to her friend about workplace gossip, friends, and oh my god, can you believe Sharon is pregnant Just when you get to the point of pulling your hear out over z-index issues in IE6 a little drop of levity comes in to save the day. Speaking of which, the internet veterans out there will appreciate the we are the web video http://www.wearetheweb.org/ Now back to our regularly scheduled programming. Ted From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 8:52 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] unsubscribe Is this a joke? Sometimes its hard to portray sarcasm in an email Joseph Bernhardt Web Applications Developer Incomprehensibilities, Inc. 406.587.4875 - Office 406.570.2004 - Cellular [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mir ali Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 9:19 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] unsubscribe Dont mail me any more messages to me. I want to unsubscribe from this group. Wayne Douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OMG This is getting better by the minute Should I have put OT in the subject?!!?!?1 Nah that would remove from the original sin!!! hahahhaha On 8/11/06, dheeraj kothapalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dont mail me any more messages to me. I want to unsubscribe from this group. Please leave me alone. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- wayneo :// What I'm listening to: http://www.last.fm/user/wayneo/ What I'm snapping: http://www.flickr.com/photos/twistedmelon/ What I'm reading: http://del.icio.us/wayne.douglas What I'm doing: http://www.google.com/calendar/feeds/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/public/basic ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get it NOW ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
RE: [WSG] image verification
Eric Meyer came up with one of the easiest ways to do this in an accessible manner. Use a question like this: What color is an orange? Now that may require someone knowing what an orange is, but you could do something like this. To make sure you arent a computer, Im going to ask a very simple question. My name is Marissa. What is my name? [insert input box] A petition isnt going to solve anything. The major internet companies are already aware of captcha problems. The above solution works great for a personal site or small business. When you are Craigslist, amazon, yahoo, etc a more robust technique is needed to foil the bad guys. Ted www.last-child.com From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marissa Manzino Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 8:23 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] image verification Hi, DOes any know how to get around the image verification system? If you're blind, or have another disability this could be a problem. I have started a petition regarding this at: http://www.petitiononline.com/A67309/petition.html If any of you know a way around this, please let me know! have a wonderful day! Marissa wsg@webstandardsgroup.org **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
RE: [WSG] Resetting properties after *
Ive found ol {margin-left:25px}
usually gets you in the ball park.
FYI, the Yahoo User Interface library has
a set of CSS files that you can use for global reset and to establish a
baseline font size setting. Theyve been tested to make sure they
accommodate the Grade A browsers to save you time.
http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/reset/
http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/fonts/
Ted
Yahoo! Tech
I
set up my css like this:
*{
margin:
0px;
padding:
0px;
}
It
all works well until my all my lists loose their margin and padding power
(which is the expected behavior) Does anyone knows how to re-set the margin and
padding for certain sections of the site only? I know I can go manually and set
certain areas as needed, but how about lay
.sectiona
ul li {
/*work
as normal */
}
Type
of deal?
TIA.
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RE: [WSG] CSS based menu popping behind Flash movie only in Safari problem
This works in IE6 and not safari!?! I would confirm the z-index of your dropdown parent container and flash parent container. If you havent set this, apply position:relative z-index:1 to the flash container and position:relative; z-index:5 to the dropdown container to see if that helps. Applying it to the container instead of the dropdown/flash themselves will help you in ie6. you may have to do both: flash container z-index1, flash- z-index:2, dropdowncontainer:z-index5; dropdown:z-index:10 If you can survive without zindex, you are better off. Id also check to see how you are embedding the flash movie. Are you using the UFO script, embed, object, combination? Ted www.last-child.com From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Corrie Potter Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 7:58 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] CSS based menu popping behind Flash movie only in Safari problem I have a CSS based dynamic menu that drops down and there is a flash movie that is right under the menu. The flash movie is set to transparent and the menu pops down over the flash menu in all browsers correctly except in Safari. In Safari the menu displays over the flash movie but when you go over the top of sub menu items they drop behind the flash movie for some reason. Is there anyone out there that can help me? I really appreciate it! Corrie Potter **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help** **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
RE: [WSG] Suckerfish Dropdown problem - IE
This is an ugly fix, but can lead you toward to solution. Try placing the entire list in one line, removing the whitespace between the list items. At least try this for the first few list items. This is a common problem in IE6 with horizontal list elements. You can fix it by adding display:inline to the li styles. It won't hurt the other browsers, assuming you are floating the top level list items. -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christian Fagan Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 10:17 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Suckerfish Dropdown problem - IE Hello all, I'm having trouble with Suckerfish drop-downs on a client's site: I have not uploaded everything yet but you can check out the raw code at: HTML: http://www.fagandesign.com.au/index4.html CSS: http://www.fagandesign.com.au/homepagestyle3.css My problem is not a problem in FF or Netscape (not tested in Opera yet) but it is in IE - funny that. In IE their is still an annoying white space about 5px tall seperating the main menu from the image underneath it - whereas their should be no space between them (and isn't in FF and N). Does anyone know what attribute of the Suckerfish drop-down menu is causing this ugly white space?? And how I can fix it?? Cheers. -- Christian Fagan Fagan Design 0432 220 579 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
microformats: was - RE: [WSG] target=_blank
Hi Thierry Microformats use classes to define objects. Granted, this is adding another layer of complexity as the classes tell the parser that the content within the container is x. In General, class names should be given thoughtful names to make them easier to understand and more semantic, but shouldn't be depended on as a descriptor. Except for the particular patterns established in microformatting. (Blantant Plug) http://www.last-child.com/ Speaking of which, I just posted something about how we are using the object pattern for the hReview microformat on Yahoo! Tech and will post another this week on other microformat elements that we're adding this week. I'll also post something soon about how you can add the OpenSearch protocol to your pages to work with IE7 and A9 based search engines. Ted Drake Yahoo! Tech Ian Pouncey wrote: According to http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/global.html#h-7.5.2 The class attribute has several roles in HTML: * As a style sheet selector (when an author wishes to assign style information to a set of elements). * For general purpose processing by user agents. The first is presentational, the second if for describing elements beyond what information HTML alone can impart. That's the way I see it anyway. I don't see how a class could describe an element (for UAs, not authors). If there was a known convention on possible values, then I'd agree to say that it could convey information (other than style), but AFAIK this is not the case. I may be missing something though, so I'd be happy to hear what others think about this... --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] how to create nested links in a side-navigation
Hi All As everyone knows, there are a million ways of coding the nested navigation schemes. The Son of Suckerfish is one method. Thierry K. has a more accessible version on tjkdesign: http://tjkdesign.com/articles/dropdown/default.asp . The latest version of the Yahoo User Interface Library also comes with a menu function that is worth looking at: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/menu/ . Personally, I think it is too heavy and a bit clunky for a simple navigation with possibly one dropdown. But if you are working with something like the below list, it is a good idea. It was developed with keyboard and screen-reader users in mind. It's easy to use and can generate the lists dynamically or take static content. It also has the built in iframe hack for those dealing with IE6 z-index issues (scream!) You can see the libraries here: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/ . If you are currently using the libraries, you should update your links to use the latest versions. They crew is constantly working to make it leaner, faster, and better. Ted Drake Yahoo! Tech - Tech Made Easy Member of the Yahoo! Accessibility Stakeholders Group Did you know: Fully justified text alignment is an accessibility problem for dyslexia. The random width word spacing makes it difficult to read. -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin Heiden Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 5:15 AM To: Soeren Mordhorst Subject: Re: [WSG] how to create nested links in a side-navigation Soeren, on Friday, July 21, 2006 at 10:20 wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: For navigation on the right site I like to use a nested list. What is the best way to produce a nested list? Did I do the list below correct? Yes, your list is valid, but I think you intend it a bit different: h2Departments-Overview/h2 ul li 1 ul li 1.1 ul li 1.1.1 ul li 1.1.1.1 /li li 1.1.1.2 /li li 1.1.1.3 /li li 1.1.1.4 /li /ul /li li 1.1.2 /li li 1.1.3 /li li 1.1.4 /li /ul /li li 1.2 /li li 1.3 /li li 1.4 /li /ul /li li 2 /li li 3 /li li 4 /li /ul Does anybody has a suggestion of what style to use, so that it will be still usable and accessible, of course without JavaScript? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Alphabetical Listing Buttons - What are you thiinking???
How many times have I bit my tongue as Felix has blurted out his irrational ideas. Sorry to be negative, but this is just wrong. Semantic value has nothing to do with your spreadsheets. A list of letters in the alphabet is a list. It's not a table unless you are trying to make a relationship between the letters and something else. To relate a list of letters to your spreadsheet is spreading bad information. I'd hate to have someone join this list and think you were the resident expert and begin coding their pages as if they are working in Excel. Please, let's get back to the real world. Semantic value is using the tag that gives your content structural and contextual value. If you are displaying a group of objects that have no hierarchical value, give them an unordered list. If those objects have a hierarchy, as the alphabet does (a before b before c before d...) use an ordered list. If that group of objects have definitions and terms, use a definition list. If they are tabular, in that you can relate rows and columns, use a table. If none of the above, you should consider paragraphs or another container. Where does the spreadsheet come in? Why would you even consider how the content would display in a completely unrelated interface? For anyone that just joined this list. If Felix was starting to sound reasonable, please take some time to read Eric Meyer, the W3C, Zeldman.com, simplebits.com, and many other sites that accurately describe semantic markup. There, I've done it. I've broken my vow to not be negative on this list. But consider the spreadsheet to be one hell of a straw that broke this camel's back. Ted -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Felix Miata Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 9:10 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Alphabetical Listing Buttons On 06/07/11 18:05 (GMT+0300) Rimantas Liubertas apparently typed: Felix Miata wrote: Expanding on Bob's approach, you should be able to see why I disagree: http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/alphabet.html Looks like an ordered list. An ordered list displayed unstyled would be displayed by every browser I've ever used as one column with 26 rows. That's how I would normally include a list in my spreadsheet. However, I see Richard's alphabet as a row array, which I would include in my spreadsheet using one row with 26 columns. AFAIK, there is no element in the (X)HTML specs semantically designed specifically for a row array, and why it is putatively semantic to use a table to do what Richard wants. -- If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord', and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 3:23 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] list items floating around a floated element
HI All I'm drawing a blank on this today. We have a blog post with some ugly tag soup, courtesy of an inpage editor. So, ignore the font tags. I've already stripped it down to the bare essence to check on the behavior and I've got a question about fundamental block/float performance. Here's the issue: http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/870 We have a photograph that floats to the right. It sits in a paragraph. Following this paragraph is an unordered list. The first list item hits the image and constrains its width to the space between the left side of the main container and the edge of the image in Firefox. In IE6, the text of the list item continues to flow around the image. I'm sitting here thinking that firefox is doing it correctly, although frustratingly so. The list item is a block level element and contains all of the space it can. Upon hitting the image, it assumes that it can only be 250px wide instead of 450px. So, it renders all of the content in that list item as 250px. The next list item spans the entire container, as it doesn't have to worry about the image. I don't want to make a style for this particular post or list item. I need to set it to work with all possibilities. Has anyone come across this and figured out a way to force the list item text to flow around the image? For what it's worth, I'm going to re-code the post and manually update it. I'm going to switch to h4/paragraphs instead. Although I'm also tempted to go with a dl as well. But that is not the point of this email. I'm curious about any list item that needs to flow around a previously floated image. Thanks Ted Drake Front-end Engineer Yahoo! Tech ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] list items floating around a floated element
Hi Adam. That's an idea. I tried adding display:inline to the list item, but that removes the bullet. I forgot to mention that earlier. Ted -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Burmister (DSL AK) Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 4:33 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] list items floating around a floated element I think you're right. FF is rendering it correctly, as the LI and IMG block-elements are jutting up to each other. The easiest way I can think of solving it would be to place the image within the LI. - Adam -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted Drake Sent: Tuesday, 11 July 2006 11:14 a.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] list items floating around a floated element HI All I'm drawing a blank on this today. We have a blog post with some ugly tag soup, courtesy of an inpage editor. So, ignore the font tags. I've already stripped it down to the bare essence to check on the behavior and I've got a question about fundamental block/float performance. Here's the issue: http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/870 We have a photograph that floats to the right. It sits in a paragraph. Following this paragraph is an unordered list. The first list item hits the image and constrains its width to the space between the left side of the main container and the edge of the image in Firefox. In IE6, the text of the list item continues to flow around the image. I'm sitting here thinking that firefox is doing it correctly, although frustratingly so. The list item is a block level element and contains all of the space it can. Upon hitting the image, it assumes that it can only be 250px wide instead of 450px. So, it renders all of the content in that list item as 250px. The next list item spans the entire container, as it doesn't have to worry about the image. I don't want to make a style for this particular post or list item. I need to set it to work with all possibilities. Has anyone come across this and figured out a way to force the list item text to flow around the image? For what it's worth, I'm going to re-code the post and manually update it. I'm going to switch to h4/paragraphs instead. Although I'm also tempted to go with a dl as well. But that is not the point of this email. I'm curious about any list item that needs to flow around a previously floated image. Thanks Ted Drake Front-end Engineer Yahoo! Tech ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.0/353 - Release Date: 31/05/2006 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.0/353 - Release Date: 31/05/2006 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] IE7 padding, maybe?
It is feature complete, but they have fixed many bugs that were recognized after the beta2 launch. So, it will be better than beta 2. It does mean that generated content and stuff like that will not be in the final release. Ted www.last-child.com -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 2:00 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] IE7 padding, maybe? David Laakso wrote: Fine here in xp opera9, ff1.5.0.4, or ie/6.0. Personally, I think it is a little early to worry about ie/7-- a lot can change between now and whenever... IE 7beta2 is feature complete with regards to its CSS capabilities...so any issues you see now will be there in the final release, according to Microsoft's Chris Wilson and the IE team P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re.dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] IE7 padding, maybe?
Hi Joe I have cured things like this in IE7 by checking hasLayout and clearing issues. I haven't had the chance to look at your particular code. Ted -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 1:59 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] IE7 padding, maybe? Thanks to everyone for the comments! My response... Frustrate.ed- have bumped into this problem before, try changing the padding to margin. don't know why it does it though. This was my initial thought, but I revoked the idea when I found a problem in FF1.5 resulting from this change. For some reason FF would not recognize the margin on div.navegation even when a nbsp; was placed before it. dL- Fine here in xp opera9, ff1.5.0.4, or ie/6.0. Personally, I think it is a little early to worry about ie/7-- a lot can change between now and whenever... Understandable. And this isn't even that big of a problem to be worrying about. The site is still usable, right? :) Little tough on eyes with the tiny fonts, though (at least for me).. Exactly what I thought, but 'the boss' prefers .8em to 1em. Don't ask me why... And adding font-size: 100% to body, html will keep your em sized fonts from going totally goofy on zoom in ie(just another ie bug). Thanks for the heads up! I didn't know that. Ted- Do you think it could possibly be something other than a padding issue on div.navigation? The image in question is a background image of the header container - clearing any other element shouldn't make a difference. Maybe I should just leave it be. It's not that big of a problem anyway :) Thanks all! Jough ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] IE7 padding, maybe?
I see your issue. Without doing the trouble shooting for you, I'd suggest invoking hasLayout on the header. The easiest way to do this that will not mess up other browsers is to add zoom:1 to the header and its contents one at a time until you figure out which is the offending element. If that doesn't work, make sure you clear the following element, whether it is the contents or whatever. I have found that IE7 sometimes needs hasLayout or float clearing where other browsers are ok. Ted Yahoo Tech http://tech.yahoo.com -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 12:40 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] IE7 padding, maybe? Maybe I'm making this harder than it has to be... The webpage in question is located at www.preleads.com/index-dev2.php On every computer here in the office (on IE6 and FF1.5) the page displays fine. But, on one particular computer with IE7 installed the PreLeads logo in the top right has about one third of the bottom cut off. I understand why this is happening (the padding on #header) but do not know if this is just an IE7 problem if it is even a problem at all. Does anyone else see the cut-off logo? Does anyone know what is wrong? Thanks in advance! Jough ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] IE7 padding, maybe?
It is feature complete, but they have fixed many bugs that were recognized after the beta2 launch. So, it will be better than beta 2. It does mean that generated content and stuff like that will not be in the final release. Ted www.last-child.com -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 2:00 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] IE7 padding, maybe? David Laakso wrote: Fine here in xp opera9, ff1.5.0.4, or ie/6.0. Personally, I think it is a little early to worry about ie/7-- a lot can change between now and whenever... IE 7beta2 is feature complete with regards to its CSS capabilities...so any issues you see now will be there in the final release, according to Microsoft's Chris Wilson and the IE team P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re.dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Through PDA
Mobile appliances are notoriously difficult to program for. Cell phone and
PDA manufacturers are still stuck in the Wild West days of browser wars. You
just have to do the best you can and hope the majority of people can view
your stuff.
I'm not on the Yahoo! mobile project, but from what I understand they are
using XSL to create customized presentations for each of the major mobile
applications. This is a huge undertaking that the average developer simply
cannot afford.
I'm used the handheld media to create a simplified style sheet. I'm hardly
an expert at it, but have gotten moderate success. Take your print style
sheet, add a rule that cancels float on everything
(* {float:none!important}) and start tweaking with what you want to show and
hide. This is just a very, very rough draft for a mobile style sheet. It's
not perfect, but it will make your sites more readable in an appliance that
recognizes the handheld media.
That said... The opera browser for mobile appliances is really quite nice
and can re-render your normal site fairly well. It might be better to hide
the crippled handheld css file from this browser.
Ted
www.tdrake.net
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Leskinen N.
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:57 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Through PDA
Yesterday I have connected PDA to the Internet and have looked as sites
under web-standards are well looked.
http://whale-zx.livejournal.com/8498.html
Not so well...
--
Kit
http://www.zamyteam.com/
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RE: [WSG] Accessibility standards - for commercial consumption
In the United States, a company has to make a good faith effort to provide accessibility. Target was sued after they were presented with a list of problems and given 6 months to correct them. I would guess that the first major WCAG2 based lawsuit would be against a similar company that has disregarded accessibility completely. I don't expect it to be against a company that has tried, but not reached full validation. That would be too difficult to win and could set back the legal fight for accessibility in the long run. It's still our responsibility to educate those who build sites about what is needed and try to generate a world of good sites, big and small. They may not all be perfect but better. Ted www.last-child.com -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Stalvies Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 6:11 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Accessibility standards - for commercial consumption Gian's comments certainly make sense, wondering though how this would fare if a large corporation appealed a case to the High Court (let's say they got a $2m fine, and having employed full-time accessibility lawyers, decided to prove a point) There's a section of the Aust. constitution (51, part 29 I think?) to do with the federal government's responsibilities to international treaties, agreements etc (this was used by the federal govt in 1983 to stop Tasmania creating the Franklin Dam) ... don't think this is strictly relevant but not sure whether the international standards would just be ignored in favour of the DDA, either (especially if it recommends rather than dictates). Would be interesting if there are any lawyers in this group to offer an opinion? Cheers Original Message Follows From: Gian Sampson-Wild [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Accessibility standards - for commercial consumption Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 22:04:13 +1000 HREOC's big stick is to taking the offending company/government department to court. How do you think a case would go with HREOC saying the offending web site is inaccessible because it did not validate it's documents as required by the HREOC guidelines and the web site is inaccessible. And the defendant saying it complied with the accepted international standard, the WCAG 2.0 by ensuring that all it's documents could be parsed unambiguously. No judge is going to be able to understand the issues and with a good lawyer arguing accepted international standard vs HREOC guidelines, HREOC will be left paying hefty court costs. --- HREOC is the governing body in this instance and has successfully fought and won an accessibility case in Australia. When I talk to clients they ask why they have to worry about accessibility and I refer directly to the DDA. In Australia, what the DDA recommends is what is legally required. I think you do not give either judges or lawyers enough credit for being able to differentiate between overseas law and Australian law. Gian ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Horizontal List Issue
I've had good luck with li img {vertical-align:middle}
This helps if you have an image that is roughly the same height as the text
in the list item. It's not as good if the text begins to wrap.
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Thierry Koblentz
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:45 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Horizontal List Issue
Jonathan Carter wrote:
That would be the my desired way of doing it, but like I said, the
list is generated dynamically, it's not static HTML. There could be
any number of list items that are displaying any image that is
uploaded by the user, so I wouldn't know what image to make as the
background for each item.
What about:
HTML:
liimg src=image.gif alt=Some Text /This is more text/li
CSS:
li {list-style-type:none;text-align:center;float:left;width:100px}
li img {display:block;margin:0 auto}
---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
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RE: [WSG] table or div
Depending on your content, it could be as simple as ul li/li li/li /ul Ted From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Price Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 4:33 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] table or div On Thursday, June 1, 2006, at 09:01 pm, Ryan Moore wrote: Im wondering what is the best (most standard way) to line up two divs together and have a border surrounding both of them. The old way I would have done it is: table style=border: solid 0.1em #000; tr tdcontent 1/tdtdcontent 2/td /tr /table Or would I be better of with a div way of: div style=border: solid 0.1em #000; div/divdiv/div /div I tried the div way and it doesnt surround the 2 divs nested within. So I guess Id like to know he best way to make it work but work around standards. As has been said, you should decide which solution is semantically correct. Using tables is certainly the easy option but if you're going to use divs you need to be more creative. You could float them or make them inline but if you start nesting them to get them to display properly you're not meeting the objective of separating style from content which I imagine you mean by standards. Div is not equivalent to tr or td so it can't be more correct. What you may be looking for is divspancontent 1/spanspancontent 2/span/div and you've also got widths, padding and margins to add to the styling but it all depends on what, precisely, you're trying to achieve, more than just adding a border. Kind Regards -- Chris Price Choctaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 451 4488 Beauty is in the eye of the beholder while excellence is in the hand of the professional ~~~ -+- Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd -+- ~~~ The information in the email (including any attachments) is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorized. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Choctaw Media Ltd. If you have received this email in error be advised that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. Please notify the sender and please delete the message from your system immediately. **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
RE: [WSG] Offlist unscientific poll
Hi Tom If you really want offlist responses, please add your email address to your message. The standard reply will go to wsg and it doesn't make it easy to discover your personal address. This is why I'm sending this to the list and not to you directly. p.s. I use the latest version of firefox. Ted -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Livingston Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 10:44 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Offlist unscientific poll I said offlist, didn't I?... Hello listers, With all the browsers available these days, I was very curious as to what the professional developers rely on for their own personal, non-dev non-testing browsing needs. What browser do you guys always come back to for personal banking/personal browsing needs? This is just for my own curiosity. Just wanted to know what the pros actually use. OFF LIST PLEASE! Yes, I know how many replies I might get. Thanks for the concern. ;-) Georg, let me guess... Opera? ;-) -- Tom Livingston Senior Multimedia Artist Media Logic www.mlinc.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] duplicate id
Dont base your markup decisions on how the final product looks. Base your markup decisions on what the content is and should be. So, if the title test is the title of the page, it should be marked up with a header tag. Placing it in a span, div, p, etc is not giving it the structural and semantic value it deserves. Spans should be used conservatively. You should think twice, maybe three times before using on. They arent bad, just easily abused. Look for a more structural/semantic option first. Use a div if it is a block, use a span if it sits within another element, like a link or paragraph. If you find yourself needing to use an id twice, its time to re-evaluate what you are doing or use a class instead. Ted http://www.last-child.com From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of shawn cassick Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 4:46 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] duplicate id i am currently recoding a page from sloppy html to xhtml 1.0 strict, my question is, how can i get around the span duplicate id defined, as i use css to define a border around the title text, yes i thought of using h1, b, etc. and relating the css to those tags, but the titles are to have pretty much the same properties as the main text. long story short does anyone have an idea of how to get around it, i am currently at school right now but any responses would be nice, i have thought of using a div tag instead of a span and making the width auto, but still... thanks guys Shawn Cassick Lead Designer - Bumlabs.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] UFO flash movies and accessibility
Hi Everyone. I've been working on some posts about what we've learned while building Yahoo! Tech (http://tech.yahoo.com ). We tried to make it as accessible as possible and made a number of adjustments after doing user testing with screen readers. I just posted a piece about how we got our front-page media space to work with a screen reader. I had thought the U.F.O. javascript would be accessible. But screen readers ignored the content when we had to give the movie a transparent window mode. We tried to modify the script to use methods other than visibility:hidden, but we couldn't bypass the Flash movie's dominance over the hidden content. We solved this by creating a secondary div for the screen readers. Find out more on my blog: http://www.last-child.com/make-flash-accessible-to-screen-readers-in-transpa rent-window-mode/ I've got a couple more stories that will be published soon on the Yahoo! User Interface blog in the near future. Ted Drake Front-end Engineer Yahoo! Tech http://tech.yahoo.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] XSLT Training?
Oh are you in for a world of joy. XSLT is just one big bowl of quirky cherries. I have found the O'Reilly XSLT book to be a good introduction and reference book. I've also gone to the XSLT Programmer's Reference from Wrox. But it's a hefty book and not as easy to find the information. Here's a helpful site: http://www.dpawson.co.uk/xsl/ Have fun. Ted -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Horner Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 4:43 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] XSLT Training? Do any Australian WSG members had any recommendations for XSLT training in Sydney, or failing that, some advanced XML training that would include XPath and XSLT? TIA John HornerDeveloper, ABC Online 02-8333-3803 / 82-3803 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] frames for HTML
Here are a couple experiments by Hedger Wang that you may find interesting. CSS Framesets (variations of these have been around forever) http://www.hedgerwow.com/360/dhtml/css-frameset/demo_1.html Drag and drop toolbars (this is really cool and gives you more of a desktop application experience) http://www.hedgerwow.com/360/dhtml/css-frameset/toolbar/demo.html Ted -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Yeaney Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 5:35 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] frames for HTML While frames may be horrible for search engine crawling andbookmarking, IMO they are a godsend for web-delivered richapplications (i.e., when you don't want people jump in at random, andyou need to give the solid feel of a 'real' desktop app.)thesetypes of things aren't usually crawled by search engines though,either. Some examples that come to mind are M$ Outlook Web Access(even though it's only IE), CheckPoint firewall admin tools (all webbased), etc. That said, I would NOT use them for public domain, accessible, contentdelivery web sites (as mentioned in previous posts). Just my $.02. (Flame suit on)Mikeyجr,_m ֧uݲ躟ym ֧uݲ躟j)zXz~gz'-x-^+- )i ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] ajax and validation
I like to look at the generated source code in the web developers toolbar and then pasting the code into a new page to test validation. The generated source code option is great at finding strange layout issues. Go to view source view generated source in the web developer toolbar From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Dale Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 4:51 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] ajax and validation I've been playing with _javascript_ and XMLhttprequest a bit today and was wonder how does one go about validating a site that contains ajax elements. I've tried using firefox web developer and doing a Local HTML validation, but that seems to return only data before any element is made active/loaded. Any ideas? Thanks, Michael Dale.
RE: [WSG] launch of site: Yahoo! Tech
Hi Steve Thanks for the screenshots. I'm afraid I just didn't have enough time to finish tweaking for Opera and IE7. There are also some print.css issues to fix in the next two weeks. I appreciate the screen shots. That damn z-index issue is going to kill me sooner or later. Ted On Tue, 2 May 2006 03:16 am, Ted Drake wrote: So, take some time to look at the site: http://tech.yahoo.com . I know there are still some validation errors, especially with the content that's beyond our control. But there are other goodies inside, especially for accessibility and I'd be happy to answer any questions or give advice. Hi Ted, I like the idea and content - the site even looks pretty good, but there are a few issues in Firefox and Opera when using Linux. I have some screen captures at: http://www.bathurstcomputers.com.au/temp/techyahoocom.png http://www.bathurstcomputers.com.au/temp/techyahoocom1.png The drop down menu of sections is not available in Firefox because it gets hidden by the large Flash movie just below it.The whole design seems to be falling to pieces in Opera. -- Regards, Steve Bathurst Computer Solutions ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] a question about badges, snipp
I've got a question for everyone. Do you use flickr, google, yahoo. badges, snippets, includes, etc? Most of them come with table based markup to make them easier to format, I'm assuming across a wide spectrum of sites. Does anyone provide a good, cross-browser tag that is table free? How do you deal with them? Do they ever over-ride your normal style sheets? Thanks Ted Drake Front-end Engineer Yahoo! Tech ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Opera and transparent png
Hi R. We are using a conditional comment: !--[if lte IE 6] link href=http://us.tech5.yimg.com/tech.yahoo.com/css/20060430165459/ie6.css; type=text/css rel=stylesheet media=all/ ![endif]-- I'm not seeing the transparent png issue in my own browser, only in the screen shot posted earlier. The biggest issue I'm worried about is the collapsing line-height. Ted -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Randall Potter Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 12:11 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Opera and transparent png Ted Drake wrote: Doesn't Opera handle transparent png? Opera handles transparent pngs. Opera also sometimes identifies itself as IE, how are you choosing when to add your IE6 stylesheet? -- R. Potter Design and Development Lead Midnight Oil Design: http://www.midnightoildesign.com Pragmatic Programming Principle #59: Costly Tools Don't Produce Better Designs. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] launch of site: Yahoo! Tech
HI all Well, I've been a lurker more than usual for the past few months; sending vague questions once in a while. It's finally time to pull the covers off our site. We launched Yahoo! Tech this morning. The immediate talk is about some of the Web 2.0 aspects. But underneath, we've tried really hard to build a solid, semantic base. I want to thank those of you that have sent very helpful advice on trouble shooting some of the bothersome tidbits. Thierry Koblentz in particular has been a godsend. A lot of the lessons I've learned from this are on www.last-child.com and I've written some blog posts to be published soon on various sections of the site and their approach to making them accessible. So, take some time to look at the site: http://tech.yahoo.com . I know there are still some validation errors, especially with the content that's beyond our control. But there are other goodies inside, especially for accessibility and I'd be happy to answer any questions or give advice. It's also May 1 and time to give due respect to the thousands of designers that have also participated in the CSS Reboot this year. I wish I could've joined you but I had this other project to work on. Thanks Ted Drake Front-end Engineer Yahoo! Tech http:tech.yahoo.com (It feels so nice to actually put an address in the signature) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] launch of site: Yahoo! Tech
Hi Matt That was a bug that popped up in the last two weeks and we just didn't find a cure fast enough. Think of it as an entertaining interlude. We're working on that. My pride and joy is the comparison tables. I'll be posting something soon about them. http://tech.yahoo.com/pf/apple/1992981873,1992902872,1991639096,1991466625,1 991675140 Thanks Ted -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 10:42 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] launch of site: Yahoo! Tech Ted, Site looks great! Nice and graphical. I did notice some quirkyness in the Today's Top Features banner on the homepage. If you roll over the text in one of the panes onto the image (like rolling onto the pic of the dad with his kids after rolling onto Is Microsoft Your Only Option?) and rest you mouse on the image, the animation of the pane expanding loops.This only happens with Flash Player 8.5 (I'm running it in FF 1.5.0.2). It's seems to correctly in Flash Player 8.0.24. It sounds like some funky circumstances and a small chunk of the flash player market, but just thought I'd give ya a heads up. Keep up the great work! On 5/1/06, Ted Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HI all Well, I've been a lurker more than usual for the past few months; sending vague questions once in a while. It's finally time to pull the covers off our site. We launched Yahoo! Tech this morning. The immediate talk is about some of the Web 2.0 aspects. But underneath, we've tried really hard to build a solid, semantic base. I want to thank those of you that have sent very helpful advice on trouble shooting some of the bothersome tidbits. Thierry Koblentz in particular has been a godsend. A lot of the lessons I've learned from this are on www.last-child.com and I've written some blog posts to be published soon on various sections of the site and their approach to making them accessible. So, take some time to look at the site: http://tech.yahoo.com . I know there are still some validation errors, especially with the content that's beyond our control. But there are other goodies inside, especially for accessibility and I'd be happy to answer any questions or give advice. It's also May 1 and time to give due respect to the thousands of designers that have also participated in the CSS Reboot this year. I wish I could've joined you but I had this other project to work on. Thanks Ted Drake Front-end Engineer Yahoo! Tech http:tech.yahoo.com (It feels so nice to actually put an address in the signature) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Matt Radel Designer, lover fighter ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] launch of site: Yahoo! Tech
Hi I wish I could say that we had a strong type strategy. It has shifted a few times. I removed a legacy font style sheet a month or so ago and favored setting a default size in the global style sheet. We then use percentages in various specific styles to bring the sizes towards the visual design. Adding font-size:85%; line-height:120%; brought the default text down to around 11px/15px. We simply ran out of time and haven't been able to optimize the CSS as much as I'd like to. The site uses conditional comments to take the IE hacks out of the mains CSS files. The fonts are all arial unless we needed verdana here and there and Georgia for user generated content. The one area that I couldn't duplicate the visual design was in the search the web text in the header. I cheated and used an image instead. Thanks for the kind note. Ted -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kvnmcwebn Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 12:05 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] launch of site: Yahoo! Tech Ted I only have good things to say about the site. i was looking at your style sheets to see how you handle type. can you explain a little about your approach to font sizing/styling on this project. it seems like the typeography on a site like this-especially the product comparison pages could get out of hand. but youve kept it tidy. -best kvnmcwebn ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Convert html to ascii script?
Heres the easiest method out there, if you have dreamweaver Paste your source code into the design view of Dreamweaver. Then go to the code view and all of the code elements have been converted to ascii. Ted www.last-child.com From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Bowling Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 4:31 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Convert html to ascii script? Thanks, that did the trick. On 4/17/06, Stuart Sherwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.mikezilla.com/exp0012.html http://www.vortex.prodigynet.co.uk/misc/ascii_conv.html On 4/18/06, Dan Bowling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to post some code online, but it is a ton of work to manually convert tags to their ascii equivalents. Is there a fast, online (or offline) converter for this? The google approach has yet to yield me any free results. -- Dan Bowling 715 682 1401 http://www.northlander.org -- Dan Bowling 715 682 1401 http://www.northlander.org
[WSG] get naked tomorrow with your css
Dustin Diaz is putting together a get naked day, tomorrow. Think of it as a global css flash mob-like thing. The goal is to have a bunch of people turn off their css for a day to show off their semantic purity. http://www.dustindiaz.com/naked-day This will be especially interesting for those who are still using handbuilt sites. So many of us have converted to Wordpress or Movabletype adaptations and will look pretty darn similar. Id love to do this for some of the business sites Ive done, but that isnt really appropriate. So, if you have a personal site and want to join the fun, visit Dustins site and leave a comment. And at midnight tonight, disable your css. Ted Drake Front-end Engineer Yahoo! Tech
RE: [WSG] get naked tomorrow with your css
Wouldn't that be fun! I could always point the blame at Dustin Diaz for pulling the sheets off. Ted -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jan Brasna Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:27 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] get naked tomorrow with your css Are you turning off CSS at Yahoo! web sites, guys? :D -- Jan Brasna :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com | www.wdnews.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] two different submits in a form
Hi All
This reminds me of something Jeremy Keith mentioned last year at the @media
conference. When you find yourself trying too hard to make something do
what should be done by something else, stop, take a deep breath, and
evaluate what should really be used.
This rears it's ugly head when forcing a definition list into looking like a
table, using a table for layout, using css for behaviors, and using js for
server-side logic.
The answer was: don't use js. I just need to place two different names on
the submit buttons and let the form action handle the two different
behaviors depending on the name of the submit button.
Thanks for the help. The almighty Hedger Wang (www.hedgerwow.com) gave me
some great advice on putting this together.
Ted
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Web Man Walking
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 2:35 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] two different submits in a form
Could you not just have 2 submit buttons and then on the target/action page,
check with one exists in the Request.Form collection (sorry ASP head) and
then do logic A or logic B?
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Marco van Hylckama Vlieg
Sent: 04 April 2006 22:18
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] two different submits in a form
I'm thinking along the lines of:
Your form:
form id=yourform_id action=/some/path/default_action.php
script
function alternateSubmit() {
theForm = document.getElementById('yourform_id');
theForm.setAttribute('action', '/some/path/somescript.php');
theForm.submit();
}
/script
The button for the alternate submit:
input type=button onclick=alternateSubmit(); /
I guess that should work.
Cheers,
Marco
On Apr 4, 2006, at 10:49 PM, Ted Drake wrote:
Hi All
I've got a question for the js people out there. I haven't found an
answer
yet, but it should be fairly straightforward.
We have a form that allows people to see their favorite products
and either
select a few to compare them or send the group of products to a
friend.
I'm using a form and the submit button is on the compare with the
action a
php script that grabs the items checked and sends the user to the
comparison
page.
I need to make this other link do something similar. I was
wondering if I
could use js to switch the action to the send the list action.
I couldn't find anything on the web for doing this sorth of thing.
Does
anyone have an example?
thanks
Ted Drake
Front-end Engineer
Yahoo! Tech
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[WSG] injecting a bit of humor into your css
Ok, I just got done figuring out some semantically useful
class names for divs with dotted borders on the bottom or top, a common style
in our page. I finally came up with topbunk and bottombunk;
cute, but fairly simple and easy to understand.
My friend and I began thinking of less tasteful versions. I
thought it would be fun to see if other people had come up with some nice class
names for their styles. I know there are some developers that turn their CSS
sheets into mini works of art.
My favorite of the month was this set of class names Im
using for a div with a dl that floats inside it.
.slava .troodoo {float:left;}
Those that appreciate Russian culture would understand the
reference.
So, anyone else out there have a gem or two?
Ted Drake
Front-end
Engineer
Yahoo! Tech
RE: [WSG] z index stacking prob
I've been struggling with this, check out my blogpost for some helpful
links.
http://www.last-child.com/conflicting-z-index-in-ie6/
The answer is: there is no easy answer.
You need to set a relationship between z-index on parent/child and
subsequent parent/child elements. You may need to insert an iframe under the
first elements.
The link above will give you better resources.
Ted
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of kvnmcwebn
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 5:00 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] z index stacking prob
hello,
setting the zindex of the header div in this file to a higher value
than the maincontent div dosnt place it on top, why. please enlighten me
im using negative margins on the main content div to slide it under the
header which has
a wave shape. btw...i know wave shapes are cliche but they make clients
happy.
it works how i want it to in ff without any zindex applied but not in ie
with or without zindex.
example:
http://63.134.251.189/indexw.html
#header{overflow:visible;
.
z-index:1001;
border:1px solid green;
}
#main-content{
..
border:1px solid pink;
z-index:1;
}
thanks
kevin
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