Re: Perl Training Courses

[celia]

David H. Adler wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 10:22:34PM +, celia wrote:
>> 
>> / me delurks - don't worry, you won't see much of me round here :)
> 
> But... why??

Why I delurked, or why you won't see much of me on this list? The answer to
both is that I'll only post if I have something useful to contribute, and
seeing as I'm new to perl, that won't be too often.

Hm, seems I've just broken my own rule :)

--
celia  
black is the colour, silence is the music, spanish is the way to walk

Re: Perl Training Courses

[David H. Adler]

On Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 10:22:34PM +, celia wrote:
> 
> / me delurks - don't worry, you won't see much of me round here :)

But... why??

dha
-- 
David H. Adler - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
philosophy department 
- you don't have to be to work here, but it helps

Re: Perl Training Courses

[Simon Cozens]

On Thu, Mar 22, 2001 at 12:15:17AM -, Dean S Wilson wrote:
> Anyone submitting anything for this?
> http://www.ukuug.org/events/linux2001/

Yup, I've been approached for some tutorials for that.

-- 
It's a short step from using alt.binaries.warez.protocol-droids.c3p0 to
Palpatine seeing a post along the lines of: "CA|\| NE1 0N Th]5 BB0ARD T3Ll M3
H0w 2 GeT KeWL S]Th P0WeRZ!?!?!?!??!?"  The rest is, well, a couple
more overly-hyped ILM graphics demos.  -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] in ASR

Re: Perl Training Courses

[Dean S Wilson]

-Original Message-
From: Nathan Torkington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


>Seriously, we were surprised when another conference announced itself
>over top of our dates, so we're trying to work out how best to deal
with
>that (move, reposition, whatever).  Never ever think conferences are
>easy.


I think half of the list is the choir on this one ;)

Anyone submitting anything for this?
http://www.ukuug.org/events/linux2001/

Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon

Re: Perl Training Courses

[Nathan Torkington]

Mark Fowler wrote:

> One of my collegues asked me about Perl training courses in the U.K.  To
> be honest, we have no idea what is good, what is bad, etc, and so I
> suggested asking you lot.

The London Open Source Convention will have Perl tutorials.  If only I could
say precisely when it would be, I'd do a much better job of plugging it.

It's the heisenconvention!  You can know where but not when, or vice-versa!

Seriously, we were surprised when another conference announced itself
over top of our dates, so we're trying to work out how best to deal with
that (move, reposition, whatever).  Never ever think conferences are
easy.

Nat

Re: Perl Training Courses

[celia]

I know you said this:

Mark Fowler wrote:

>  I'd like a course to make *sure* they do

but courses aside, books are still good. In particular, the Andrew L Johnson
book ("Elements of Programming with Perl", as rec'd by davorg) is really
handy when it comes to being:

> a) [...] hit over the head a bit with my, local, strict, good programming
> practices.  Maybe a quick refresher on how arrays, hashes and suchlike
> really work.  (In terms of passing between subroutines and stuff, how
> doing this 'casts' one into the other, the difference between array
> and scalar context.)  Maybe a quick refresher on references.

It has lots of nice diagrams and lucid explanations of all these concepts.

And hey, you've got to love a book that says things like, "Perl solves this
problem in a very relaxed manner".

/ me delurks - don't worry, you won't see much of me round here :)

--
celia  
black is the colour, silence is the music, spanish is the way to walk

Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

[David H. Adler]

On Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 04:10:37PM +, Redvers Davies wrote:
> > LASTNAME, [FIRSTNAME|FIRST INITIAL]
> 
> and if you don't have a last name???
> 
> I have three friends who are surnameless... their credit cards have a "." as
> a surname because the bank computers couldn't handle a lack of surname.

And some of us have middle names/initials that they consider
significant...

dha
-- 
David H. Adler - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
Freedom ain't nothing but a word, ain't nothing but a word.  Let me
see your ID.  - Gil Scott-Heron, "Johannesburg"

Re: Balding Badly-Coiffed Hackers (was Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.)

[David H. Adler]

On Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 02:49:17PM -, Jonathan Stowe wrote:
> 
> What are we saying here, Michael Schwern is that Alien Drag Queen ?

You know... that would explain a lot.. :-)

dha
-- 
David H. Adler - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
... we didn't know what the hell we were doing, but we did it loud.
- Andy Partidge on early XTC

Re: Perl Training Courses

[Dave Cross]

At 16:56 21/03/2001, you wrote:
>Mark's ideas are excellent and I would be highly interested in a course 
>like this.

Hmmm... maybe we _should_ look at public courses!

>Also to add to the list: security concerns for cgi scripts.
>And how about: a decent Perl debugger (that also happens to be free).

CGI stuff would probably be in a separate course.

You have a decent Perl debugger. It's called perl -d.

>I've yet to get a grasp on either.
>
>What exactly is Iterative?

A New! Exciting! Perl Consultancy that may have something to do with some 
of the london.pm regulars.

>What are we looking at in price schemes?

No idea. I'll look at what others are charging and undercut them (a bit!)

Dave...




-- 
  SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Data Munging with Perl 

Re: Perl Training Courses

[Simon Cozens]

On Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 04:19:57PM +, Mark Fowler wrote:
> One of my collegues asked me about Perl training courses in the U.K.  To
> be honest, we have no idea what is good, what is bad, etc, and so I
> suggested asking you lot.

NetThink will be running some courses soon. Don't want to advertise too much
on list; mail me offlist for details.

-- 
A formal parsing algorithm should not always be used.
-- D. Gries

RE: Perl Training Courses

[Matthew Jones]

> > I'm interested if there are courses on offer. There's only 
> > so much you can do with just yourself and a pile of O'Reilly books. 
> 
> The mind boggles ;)

No, not the *mind*! ;)

Oh, I forgot to mention the Prairie Squid (de-beaked, of course).

-- 
matt
"'scuse me trooper, will you be needing any packets today?
hey, baby, don't be pulling on my socket, okay?"

RE: Perl Training Courses

[dcross - David Cross]

> On 2001, 21, Mar, Wed, Cross, Dave wrote:
> 
> > At Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:19:57 + (GMT), Mark Fowler wrote:
> > > One of my collegues asked me about Perl training courses in the 
> > > U.K.  
> > 
> > As far as I can see, none of the scheduled courses in the UK are 
> > much cop.
> > 
> > What do you need? If you can get three or four people interested in
> > doing the same course and can supply a suitable room, then Iterative
> > would be only too happy to help you out.
> 
> This is what I think they would need to learn:
> 
>  a) Get hit over the head a bit with my, local, strict, good 
> programming practices.  Maybe a quick refresher on how arrays, 
> hashes and suchlike really work.  (In terms of passing between 
> subroutines and stuff, how doing this 'casts' one into the other, 
> the difference between array and scalar context.)  Maybe a quick 
> refresher on references.
> 
> They should know all of this already, but I'd like a course to 
> make *sure* they do, if you see what I mean
> 
>  b) This is how to get objects from CPAN, these are a few critical 
> classes that you need to know about.  E.g. this is Data::Dumper, 
> it's fscking useful.  LWP::Simple is your friend.  Etc, etc.  
> Something of a quick tour.
> 
>  c) Get to grips with writing decent objects.  E.g. this is how bless
> works, etc, etc.  This is what OO is about, how @ISA works, etc.  
> With examples that are relevant.
> 
> See what I mean?  Not completely basic stuff but a course for 
> programmers who aren't really 'in sync' with perl who just need a 
> little prodding in the right direction.

Kind of an "Effective Perl" course. Sounds like about three days?
Can do.

How many people?

Dave...

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RE: Perl Training Courses

[Matthew Jones]

> > I'm interested if there are courses on offer. There's only so much 
> > you can do with just yourself and a pile of O'Reilly books.
> 
> I'd love to help, but we're not in a position to offer public courses
> yet - the cost of hiring rooms and PCs is too prohibitive.

Who said anything about doing them in meatspace? But fair enough. I was only
asking from a "if you're doing them anyway" sort of perspective. However,
please *do* give us a nod if enough interest is raised for you to start
offering them. 

-- 
matt
"'scuse me trooper, will you be needing any packets today?
hey, baby, don't be pulling on my socket, okay?"

Re: Perl Training Courses

[James Powell]

On Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 04:31:06PM -, Matthew Jones wrote:
> > What do you need? If you can get three or four people interested in
> > doing the same course and can supply a suitable room, then Iterative
> > would be only too happy to help you out.
> 
> I'm interested if there are courses on offer. There's only so much you can
> do with just yourself and a pile of O'Reilly books.
> 

The mind boggles ;)


jp

Re: Perl Training Courses

[Matthew Byng-Maddick]

On 21 Mar 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
> d) Debugging

Amen

MBM

-- 
Matthew Byng-Maddick   Home: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  +44 20  8980 5714  (Home)
http://colondot.net/   Work: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> +44 7956 613942  (Mobile)
perl -e  'print reverse split//,"\n.rekcah lreP rehtona tsuJ"'
perl -e   '$_="\n.rekcah lreP rehtona tsuJ";m!$!;print$&while($`=~m,.$,s)'

Re: Perl Training Courses

[Hamlet D'Arcy]

Mark's ideas are excellent and I would be highly interested in a course like 
this.

Also to add to the list: security concerns for cgi scripts.
And how about: a decent Perl debugger (that also happens to be free).

I've yet to get a grasp on either.

What exactly is Iterative?
What are we looking at in price schemes?

>If you can get three or four people interested in
>then Iterative
>would be only too happy to help you out.

>This is what I think they would need to learn:
>  a) Get hit over the head a bit with my, local, strict, good programming
> practices.  Maybe a quick refresher on how arrays, hashes and suchlike
> really work.  (In terms of passing between subroutines and stuff, how
> doing this 'casts' one into the other, the difference between array
[snip]
>
>Later.
>
>Mark.

_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

RE: Perl Training Courses

[Dave Cross]

At Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:31:06 -, Matthew Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > What do you need? If you can get three or four people interested in
> > doing the same course and can supply a suitable room, then Iterative
> > would be only too happy to help you out.
> 
> I'm interested if there are courses on offer. There's only so much 
> you can do with just yourself and a pile of O'Reilly books.

I'd love to help, but we're not in a position to offer public courses
yet - the cost of hiring rooms and PCs is too prohibitive.

Dave...

Re: Perl Training Courses

[Dave Hodgkinson]

Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> This is what I think they would need to learn:
> 
>  a) Get hit over the head a bit with my, local, strict, good programming
> practices.  Maybe a quick refresher on how arrays, hashes and suchlike
> really work.  (In terms of passing between subroutines and stuff, how
> doing this 'casts' one into the other, the difference between array 
> and scalar context.)  Maybe a quick refresher on references.
> 
> They should know all of this already, but I'd like a course to make
> *sure* they do, if you see what I mean
> 
>  b) This is how to get objects from CPAN, these are a few critical classes
> that you need to know about.  E.g. this is Data::Dumper, it's fscking
> useful.  LWP::Simple is your friend.  Etc, etc.  Something of a quick
> tour.
> 
>  c) Get to grips with writing decent objects.  E.g. this is how bless
> works, etc, etc.  This is what OO is about, how @ISA works, etc.  With
> examples that are relevant.

d) Debugging

-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
   

RE: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

[Andrew Bowman]

[Continuing off-topic - not a surprise on London.pm, I'm sure (I thought Mr.
Cantrell's [ot] the other day denoted 'on-topic' :--)]

> From: Marty Pauley [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> In some countries the 'family name' is actually defined by your
> job, location, or other mutable property.  It used to be like that
> in Europe.

Hence names like Smith, Fletcher, Skinner, Mercer, etc. etc. (inc. Bowman).

On a related note, many Jewish surnames are of a similar, central European
origin (the likes of Goldblum (Goldflower), Spielberg (Playhill), Birnbaum
(Peartree) etc.) is that Jews didn't have/use family names (at that time at
least)and, following a change in the law (those Germans again), had to adopt
family names, hence the preponderance of names like those above).

> In other countries the family name changes each generation, so
> taking "Jonathan Peterson" as an example: his father would be
> "Peter " and his children would be "
> Jonathanson".

The same happened in Scotland/Ireland/etc. - Mc/Mac literally means 'Son
of', hence names like MacDonald and Donaldson are essentially the same name.
Irish republicans sometimes reverse the anglicisation of names, hence the
likes of Sean MacStiofain, a senior IRA man, who was originally born in
London as John Stevenson.

In Iceland they append 'son' for sons and 'dottir' for daughters - hence
Magnus Magnusson is the son of Magnus, whilst Sally Magnusson would, in
Iceland at least, be Sally Magnusdottir. 

Andrew.

Re: Perl Training Courses

[Mark Fowler]

On 2001, 21, Mar, Wed, Cross, Dave wrote:

> At Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:19:57 + (GMT), Mark Fowler wrote:
> > One of my collegues asked me about Perl training courses in the U.K.  
> 
> As far as I can see, none of the scheduled courses in the UK are much cop.
> 
> What do you need? If you can get three or four people interested in
> doing the same course and can supply a suitable room, then Iterative
> would be only too happy to help you out.

This is what I think they would need to learn:

 a) Get hit over the head a bit with my, local, strict, good programming
practices.  Maybe a quick refresher on how arrays, hashes and suchlike
really work.  (In terms of passing between subroutines and stuff, how
doing this 'casts' one into the other, the difference between array 
and scalar context.)  Maybe a quick refresher on references.

They should know all of this already, but I'd like a course to make
*sure* they do, if you see what I mean

 b) This is how to get objects from CPAN, these are a few critical classes
that you need to know about.  E.g. this is Data::Dumper, it's fscking
useful.  LWP::Simple is your friend.  Etc, etc.  Something of a quick
tour.

 c) Get to grips with writing decent objects.  E.g. this is how bless
works, etc, etc.  This is what OO is about, how @ISA works, etc.  With
examples that are relevant.

See what I mean?  Not completely basic stuff but a course for programmers
who aren't really 'in sync' with perl who just need a little prodding in
the right direction.

Later.

Mark.

-- 
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
   Name  => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer'  ,
   Firm  => 'Profero Ltd',Web   => 'http://www.profero.com/'   ,
   Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]',   Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960'  )

RE: Perl Training Courses

[Matthew Jones]

> What do you need? If you can get three or four people interested in
> doing the same course and can supply a suitable room, then Iterative
> would be only too happy to help you out.

I'm interested if there are courses on offer. There's only so much you can
do with just yourself and a pile of O'Reilly books.

-- 
matt
"'scuse me trooper, will you be needing any packets today?
hey, baby, don't be pulling on my socket, okay?"

Re: Perl Training Courses

[Matthew Byng-Maddick]

On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Mark Fowler wrote:
> On 2001, 21, Mar, Wed Stevens, Michael wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 04:19:57PM +, Mark Fowler wrote:
> > > One of my collegues asked me about Perl training courses in the U.K. 
> > Wasn't there some kerazy scheme to get london.pm doing courses?
> Sorry.  Perl training in *programming* not perl training in *drinking* ;-)

Good programmers aren't necessarily good teachers.

MBM

-- 
Matthew Byng-Maddick   Home: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  +44 20  8980 5714  (Home)
http://colondot.net/   Work: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> +44 7956 613942  (Mobile)
perl -e  'print reverse split//,"\n.rekcah lreP rehtona tsuJ"'
perl -e   '$_="\n.rekcah lreP rehtona tsuJ";m!$!;print$&while($`=~m,.$,s)'

Re: Perl Training Courses

[Dave Cross]

At Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:19:57 + (GMT), Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One of my collegues asked me about Perl training courses in the U.K.  
> To be honest, we have no idea what is good, what is bad, etc, and so I
> suggested asking you lot.
> 
> We've been looking through a Learning Tree catalog, but that's purely
> because they're the last company to send us some dead tree on the 
> matter.

As far as I can see, none of the scheduled courses in the UK are much cop.

What do you need? If you can get three or four people interested in
doing the same course and can supply a suitable room, then Iterative
would be only too happy to help you out.

Dave...

Re: Perl Training Courses

[Mark Fowler]

On 2001, 21, Mar, Wed Stevens, Michael wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 04:19:57PM +, Mark Fowler wrote:
> > One of my collegues asked me about Perl training courses in the U.K. 
> 
> Wasn't there some kerazy scheme to get london.pm doing courses?

Sorry.  Perl training in *programming* not perl training in *drinking* ;-)

Later.

Mark.

-- 
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
   Name  => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer'  ,
   Firm  => 'Profero Ltd',Web   => 'http://www.profero.com/'   ,
   Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]',   Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960'  )

Falco!

[Jonathan Peterson]

Oopsy daisy

$job--; #not my fault!

If anyone wants to employ me please say so. Will wear suit for food. I do
management strategy marchitecture stuff. Or Perl if necessary. Or Solaris
sysadmin if desperate.

Laters,

Jon


Jonathan PetersonIdeas Hub Ltd
(t) +44 (0)20 7487 1310
www.ideashub.com

Perl Training Courses

[Mark Fowler]

One of my collegues asked me about Perl training courses in the U.K.  To
be honest, we have no idea what is good, what is bad, etc, and so I
suggested asking you lot.

We've been looking through a Learning Tree catalog, but that's purely
because they're the last company to send us some dead tree on the matter.

Later.

Mark.

-- 
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
   Name  => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer'  ,
   Firm  => 'Profero Ltd',Web   => 'http://www.profero.com/'   ,
   Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]',   Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960'  )

Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

[Mark Fowler]

On 2001, Mar, 21, Wed Pauley, Marley wrote:

> That would work if 'significant' was well defined in relation to names,
> but it isn't.  It works with dates because 'significant' has a well
> defined meaning in relation to numerical quantities.

I wonder what Larry thinks about this.

Later.

Mark.

-- 
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_>6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
   Name  => 'Mark Fowler',Title => 'Technology Developer'  ,
   Firm  => 'Profero Ltd',Web   => 'http://www.profero.com/'   ,
   Email => '[EMAIL PROTECTED]',   Phone => '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960'  )

Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

[Redvers Davies]

> LASTNAME, [FIRSTNAME|FIRST INITIAL]

and if you don't have a last name???

I have three friends who are surnameless... their credit cards have a "." as
a surname because the bank computers couldn't handle a lack of surname.

Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

[Robin Szemeti]

On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, you wrote:

> Human postmen can do amazing
> things, like deliver letters addresses to "John Smith, the house with the
> blue door, near the flower shop in the main street in Newtownards".

blimey .. he really _IS_ a martian .. must be ... down here on Earth the
postmen can't even deliver it with the correct address on including post
code .. so they must be martian postmen you are talking about ...

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said "requires windows 95 or better"
So I installed Linux!

Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

[Marty Pauley]

On Wed Mar 21 12:00:24 2001, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
> 1. Please can we stop this silly 'firstname lastname' format. The most
> significant string (family name) should come first, with a standard
> delimiter (comma) before the first name (which should come last). This is
> what bibliographies and libraries have used for years, so should everyone
> else. Please use:
> LASTNAME, [FIRSTNAME|FIRST INITIAL]

That would work if 'significant' was well defined in relation to names,
but it isn't.  It works with dates because 'significant' has a well
defined meaning in relation to numerical quantities.

In some circumstances the family name is the most important: the
bibliography example works because we tend to talk about 'Einstein'
rather than 'Albert'.  It would also work in most situations in some
countries (like Japan) where the family name is used much more
frequently than in English-speaking countries: in Japan it is standard
to give your name as family name followed by common name.

In some countries the 'family name' is actually defined by your job,
location, or other mutable property.  It used to be like that in Europe.

In other countries the family name changes each generation, so taking
"Jonathan Peterson" as an example: his father would be "Peter "
and his children would be " Jonathanson".

> 2. The address format is a real mess, being least significant string first,
> and no clear guide as to whether comma or newline or both are the acceptable
> delimiters. Also, the location of the postcode string is arbitrary, and in
> any case the postcode repeats information and is often redundant. However,
> since postcodes can be easily fed into computer programs, and are language
> independant, they should replace all that other stuff.
> Please use:
> ISO planet code, ISO country code, POSTCODE, Building Number[, apartment
> number][, business name]

So, you think the Martians actually care about ASCII, Roman alphabets,
or the 'International' standards!?  Well, they do care a bit, but only
for the sake of peace.

> Note also that country code is compulsory. In the past post offices assumed
> that addresses without a country code were local and assumed the 'current'
> country as the one required for delivery.

No they didn't.  If the address is obviously not local, they try their
best to send it to the correct country.  If the postmen were machines,
then they would probably make assumptions.  Human postmen can do amazing
things, like deliver letters addresses to "John Smith, the house with the
blue door, near the flower shop in the main street in Newtownards".

> Note too that ISO planet code has been introduced so that when we colonise
> mars, we will not be left with 3 billion ambiguous addresses! What a mess

Colonise Mars!?  Not if we get here first.

> that would be! As you see I have really learned from the Y2K thing, which
> caused such massive chaos here on earth when all the computers stopped
> working and the planes fell out of the sky etc etc.
> 
> I hope others will take these suggestions to heart,
> 
> Peterson, Jonathan
> Earth, UK, W1H 6LT, 40, Ideashub
> 2001-03-21

To assist with interplanetary communication, the Martian government has
decided to standardise on the URL syntax for specifying locations within
our solar system.  They are working with standards bodies to produce
seperate schemes for pan-galactic and inter-galactic URLs, but they are
being hampered by a lack of absolute inertial frame of reference in the
universe, and some stubborn blue creatures from Sirius.  The
interplanitary URL is sufficient for our short-term expansion plans.
Unfortunatly the actual specification of the scheme is a millitary
secret, but I can target your house with the following:
  ipbm://3/401392692/759227092/5

Have fun!

-- 
Marty

Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

[Merijn Broeren]

Quoting Jonathan Peterson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> Please use:
> ISO planet code, ISO country code, POSTCODE, Building Number[, apartment
> number][, business name]
> 
Please move to one of the former USSR countries, they write their
addresses there like that. 

http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/postal.html

Makes for interesting reading about posting to anywhere. 

Cheers,
-- 
Merijn Broeren| Some days it just don't pay to chew through 
Software Geek | the restraints in the morning... 
  | 

Balding Badly-Coiffed Hackers (was Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.)

[Jonathan Stowe]

Marty Pauley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> On Tue Mar 20 15:13:07 2001, David H. Adler wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 05:34:06PM +, David Cantrell wrote:
> > > 
> > > You are Michael Schwern, and I claim your m4d h41rkut skillz.
> > 
> > Oh, get real.  Schwern has *no* relation to haircuts *at all*...
> 
> - Forwarded message from Michael G Schwern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> 
> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:06:26 +
> From: Michael G Schwern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Marty Pauley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: FW: london-pm RE: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.
> 
> Tell them if they keep talking shit about me I\'ll have to 
personally
> come down and CUT THEIR HAIR!
> http://us.imdb.com/Title?0103645

What are we saying here, Michael Schwern is that Alien Drag Queen ?



/J\\
-- 
I\'m obviously challenged at the moment give me a break.

Balding Badly-Coiffed Hackers (was Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.)

[Jonathan Stowe]

Marty Pauley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> On Tue Mar 20 15:13:07 2001, David H. Adler wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 05:34:06PM +, David Cantrell wrote:
> > > 
> > > You are Michael Schwern, and I claim your m4d h41rkut skillz.
> > 
> > Oh, get real.  Schwern has *no* relation to haircuts *at all*...
> 
> - Forwarded message from Michael G Schwern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> 
> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:06:26 +
> From: Michael G Schwern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Marty Pauley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: FW: london-pm RE: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.
> 
> Tell them if they keep talking shit about me I\'ll have to 
personally
> come down and CUT THEIR HAIR!
> http://us.imdb.com/Title?0103645

What are we saying here, Michael Schwern is that Alien Drag Queen ?



/J\\
-- 
I\'m obviously challenged at the moment give me a break.

Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

[Marty Pauley]

On Tue Mar 20 15:13:07 2001, David H. Adler wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 05:34:06PM +, David Cantrell wrote:
> > 
> > You are Michael Schwern, and I claim your m4d h41rkut skillz.
> 
> Oh, get real.  Schwern has *no* relation to haircuts *at all*...

- Forwarded message from Michael G Schwern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:06:26 +
From: Michael G Schwern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Marty Pauley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: FW: london-pm RE: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

Tell them if they keep talking shit about me I'll have to personally
come down and CUT THEIR HAIR!
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0103645

And if anyone happens to have a spare lifetime they could always implement
http://archive.develooper.com/perl-qa%40perl.org/msg00148.html

-- 

Michael G. Schwern   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.pobox.com/~schwern/
Perl6 Quality Assurance <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   Kwalitee Is Job One

List context isn't dangerous.  Misquoting Gibson is dangerous.

- End forwarded message -

-- 
Marty

Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

[Robin Szemeti]

On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Marcel Grunauer wrote:
> Jonathan Peterson writes:
> 
> >Please use:
> >ISO planet code, ISO country code, POSTCODE, Building Number[, apartment
> >number][, business name]
> 
> [snippage]
> 
> >Peterson, Jonathan
> >Earth, UK, W1H 6LT, 40, Ideashub
> >2001-03-21
> >
> 
> That works for the UK, but in Austria, post codes also require a street
> name, since post codes are too broad to identify individual blocks.
> 
> And what if the Martians have completely different systems? What about
> coordinates of things moving through space (i.e. on their way to Mars)?
> 
> I suggest introducing the concepts of "unimatrix", "grid" and
> "node". These can be extended into n-dimensional space.

bahhh .. now you've let the genie out of its Klein Bottle.

I suggest introducing the concept of a large blank form field and
allowing the address to be in an appropriate local format ;)

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said "requires windows 95 or better"
So I installed Linux!

ISO 11180

[Jonathan Peterson]

> At 12:33 21/03/2001 +, Piers Cawley wrote:
>
> >Can I commend ISO 11180 to you?
>
> Hah - they think of everything.
>
> Just a shame that, as you have to pay for it, chances are
> most people won't
> use it.

Which, I'm obliged to say, can only be for the best.

The fact that government organisations have to use standards such as this
presumably explains why they move at half the speed of private enterprises.
I especially like the use of fixed width fields everywhere. Nice.

Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

[Simon Wilcox]

At 12:33 21/03/2001 +, Piers Cawley wrote:

>Can I commend ISO 11180 to you?

Hah - they think of everything.

Just a shame that, as you have to pay for it, chances are most people won't 
use it.

(Can you tell I feel strongly about this ;-)

Simon.

Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

[Marcel Grunauer]

Jonathan Peterson writes:

>Please use:
>ISO planet code, ISO country code, POSTCODE, Building Number[, apartment
>number][, business name]

[snippage]

>Peterson, Jonathan
>Earth, UK, W1H 6LT, 40, Ideashub
>2001-03-21
>

That works for the UK, but in Austria, post codes also require a street
name, since post codes are too broad to identify individual blocks.

And what if the Martians have completely different systems? What about
coordinates of things moving through space (i.e. on their way to Mars)?

I suggest introducing the concepts of "unimatrix", "grid" and
"node". These can be extended into n-dimensional space.

Enjoy.

Marcel

-- 
We are Perl. Your table will be assimilated. Your waiter will adapt to
service us. Surrender your beer. Resistance is futile.
 -- London.pm strategy aka "embrace and extend" aka "mark and sweep"

Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

[David Cantrell]

On Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 11:23:59AM +, Simon Wilcox wrote:

> At 11:43 20/03/2001 -0500, Dave Cross wrote:
> 
> >Which is the ISO standard (number 8601) for dates for a very good
> >reason.
> 
> I thought I'd look this up, but the BSI want 50 quid for a copy.
> 
> I appreciate this is how they make money to fund the standards work but it 
> seems a tad steep for the casual viewer such as myself.
> 
> Anyone know of a free online resource ?

Not for standards in general, but that particular one is at
  http://www.iso.ch/markete/8601.pdf

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

   The voices said it's a good day to clean my weapons.

Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

[Piers Cawley]

"Jonathan Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> > This site seems to confirm it tho:
> >
> > 
> >
> 
> Hmmm, 11 reasons to use this format:
> 
> 5 of these reasons are "Because it makes it easier for me to write software
> if you do" which don't carry much weight IMNSHO
> 
> However, in the spirit of standardisation, I'd like to suggest:
> 
> 1. Please can we stop this silly 'firstname lastname' format. The most
> significant string (family name) should come first, with a standard
> delimiter (comma) before the first name (which should come last). This is
> what bibliographies and libraries have used for years, so should everyone
> else. Please use:
> LASTNAME, [FIRSTNAME|FIRST INITIAL]
> 
> 2. The address format is a real mess, being least significant string first,
> and no clear guide as to whether comma or newline or both are the acceptable
> delimiters. Also, the location of the postcode string is arbitrary, and in
> any case the postcode repeats information and is often redundant. However,
> since postcodes can be easily fed into computer programs, and are language
> independant, they should replace all that other stuff.
> Please use:
> ISO planet code, ISO country code, POSTCODE, Building Number[, apartment
> number][, business name]
> 
> Note also that country code is compulsory. In the past post offices assumed
> that addresses without a country code were local and assumed the 'current'
> country as the one required for delivery. This sort of assumption landed us
> in the Y2K mess where people foolishly assumed that a year was in the
> 'current' century, for some silly reason.

Can I commend ISO 11180 to you?

-- 
Piers

RE: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

[Jonathan Peterson]

> This site seems to confirm it tho:
>
> 
>

Hmmm, 11 reasons to use this format:

5 of these reasons are "Because it makes it easier for me to write software
if you do" which don't carry much weight IMNSHO

However, in the spirit of standardisation, I'd like to suggest:

1. Please can we stop this silly 'firstname lastname' format. The most
significant string (family name) should come first, with a standard
delimiter (comma) before the first name (which should come last). This is
what bibliographies and libraries have used for years, so should everyone
else. Please use:
LASTNAME, [FIRSTNAME|FIRST INITIAL]

2. The address format is a real mess, being least significant string first,
and no clear guide as to whether comma or newline or both are the acceptable
delimiters. Also, the location of the postcode string is arbitrary, and in
any case the postcode repeats information and is often redundant. However,
since postcodes can be easily fed into computer programs, and are language
independant, they should replace all that other stuff.
Please use:
ISO planet code, ISO country code, POSTCODE, Building Number[, apartment
number][, business name]

Note also that country code is compulsory. In the past post offices assumed
that addresses without a country code were local and assumed the 'current'
country as the one required for delivery. This sort of assumption landed us
in the Y2K mess where people foolishly assumed that a year was in the
'current' century, for some silly reason.

Note too that ISO planet code has been introduced so that when we colonise
mars, we will not be left with 3 billion ambiguous addresses! What a mess
that would be! As you see I have really learned from the Y2K thing, which
caused such massive chaos here on earth when all the computers stopped
working and the planes fell out of the sky etc etc.

I hope others will take these suggestions to heart,

Peterson, Jonathan
Earth, UK, W1H 6LT, 40, Ideashub
2001-03-21

Re: Module of the Year contender...

[Marty Pauley]

On Tue Mar 20 17:21:11 2001, Tony Bowden wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 12:14:44PM -0500, Dave Cross wrote:
> > From ny.pm.
> > The meme is spreading :)
> 
> > At Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:01:19 +, Michael G Schwern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On the shoulders of such giants as Date::Christmas, Date::Discordian
> > > and Date::Tolkien::Shire stands Date::MMDDYY!
> > > http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Date-MMDDYY
> > > Reason #120398 why I need to get CPANTS off the ground.
> 
> This is what happens when I forward London.pm mail internally ...

OOPS!  Looks like he'll be getting multiple copies then.

-- 
Marty

 PGP signature

Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

[Simon Wilcox]

At 06:42 21/03/2001 -0500, Dave Cross wrote:
>At Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:37:32 + (GMT), AEF <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>wrote:
> >
> >  Useful Summary: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html
> >  Standard: ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/g1smd/8601v03.pdf
> >

This one seems to be a second edition although the filename infers third.

>
> >  Google is Good[tm].

doh !  will now write 100 times - "use all your resources before bothering 
other people"

>Looks like you _can_ get it directly from ISO by going to:
>
>

This seems to be the first version. Quite a lot seems to have changed 
between versions judging by the markup on the qsl.net version above.

I agree wholeheartedly with the observation on the IDFC page Dave posted - 
"Seems pretty daft to me - if you want a worldwide standard to be adopted 
it should be freely available to everyone who could possibly want to use 
it" 

Simon.

Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

[Dave Cross]

At Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:37:32 + (GMT), AEF <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Simon Wilcox wrote:
> 
> > I thought I'd look this up, but the BSI want 50 quid for a copy.
> > 
> > I appreciate this is how they make money to fund the standards work 
> > but it seems a tad steep for the casual viewer such as myself.
> > 
> > Anyone know of a free online resource ?
> 
>  Useful Summary: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html
>  Standard: ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/g1smd/8601v03.pdf 
> 
>  Google is Good[tm].

Looks like you _can_ get it directly from ISO by going to:



Dave...

Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

[AEF]

On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Simon Wilcox wrote:

> I thought I'd look this up, but the BSI want 50 quid for a copy.
> 
> I appreciate this is how they make money to fund the standards work but it 
> seems a tad steep for the casual viewer such as myself.
> 
> Anyone know of a free online resource ?

 Useful Summary: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html
 Standard: ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/g1smd/8601v03.pdf 

 Google is Good[tm].

 TOny

Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

[Dave Cross]

At Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:23:59 +, Simon Wilcox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 11:43 20/03/2001 -0500, Dave Cross wrote:
> 
> >Which is the ISO standard (number 8601) for dates for a very good
> >reason.
> 
> I thought I'd look this up, but the BSI want 50 quid for a copy.
> 
> I appreciate this is how they make money to fund the standards work 
> but it seems a tad steep for the casual viewer such as myself.
> 
> Anyone know of a free online resource ?

Well I got the info from this great Perl book called "Data Munging 
with Perl", but I happen to know that the author was just given the
info in an email and didn't bother to check his facts :-/

This site seems to confirm it tho: 



Dave...

ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

[Simon Wilcox]

At 11:43 20/03/2001 -0500, Dave Cross wrote:

>Which is the ISO standard (number 8601) for dates for a very good
>reason.

I thought I'd look this up, but the BSI want 50 quid for a copy.

I appreciate this is how they make money to fund the standards work but it 
seems a tad steep for the casual viewer such as myself.

Anyone know of a free online resource ?

Simon Cheepskate

Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

[AEF]

On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Dave Cross wrote:

> Which is the ISO standard (number 8601) for dates for a very good 
> reason.
> 
> Dave...
> [who actually prefers MMDD because it sorts numerically]

 ISO8601 allows MMDD too (IIRC).

 Tony