Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Philip Newton]

Roger Burton West wrote:
> - Being employed is a good thing.
> - People with degrees are more likely to be employed, and to 
>   have higher salaries, than people without.
> - Therefore everybody should have a degree, and miraculously 
>   they will all be employed and have higher salaries.

I read in a book about a place where this premise was taken to its logical
conclusion and all residents of a particular state were given college
degrees so that people would be equal.

(It might have been Heinlein's _Friday_.)

Cheers,
Philip
-- 
Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

Re: like a phoenix from the flames

[Philip Newton]

David Cantrell wrote:
> It will come as no surprise to any of yhou that mine hasn't 
> arrived :-)

Nor mine :(

(Though, truth be told, I'm not sure whether I'm still subscribed. I think I
tried to renew my subscription just before everything went pear-shaped, but
I don't remember whether it went through, or I cancelled it, or what. I
s'pose I'll just wait(2) and C.)

Cheers,
Philip
-- 
Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Piers Cawley]

Robin Szemeti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Mon, 14 May 2001, you wrote:
> 
> > But it does mean you need some
> > really AWFUL schools to pull the average down...
> 
> AIUI suitable arrangments have been put in place to enable this to
> happen.

I intended to leave that implicit.

-- 
Piers Cawley
www.iterative-software.com

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Robin Szemeti]

On Mon, 14 May 2001, you wrote:

> But it does mean you need some
> really AWFUL schools to pull the average down...

AIUI suitable arrangments have been put in place to enable this to happen.

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said "requires windows 95 or better"
So I installed Linux!

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Paul Makepeace]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 06:10:12PM -0400, Piers Cawley wrote:
> Well, it's thinking like that that keeps the skills gap nice and wide.
> Hmm... can't be all bad then.

Better to quietly allow immigrants across the border, put them in
an immigration armlock and then turn a blind eye to them be employed
for a pittance in jobs no white would ever want.

And remember, they're Hispanics, not Mexicans.

Paul

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Piers Cawley]

Dave Hodgkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Martin Ling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > Exactly. This is the same population that brought you 'Hey, why are
> > there loads of schools with below average results!'
> 
> That was a direct quote. Tory education minister. "We want to raise
> standard so that more than half of schools get above average results".

Depends on which average. It's *possible* for more than half the
schools to get results above the mean. But it does mean you need some
really AWFUL schools to pull the average down...

-- 
Piers Cawley
www.iterative-software.com

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Piers Cawley]

Roger Burton West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 02:10:56PM -0400, Piers Cawley wrote:
> 
> >And while I'm about it, can I please kill anyone who complains that
> >our universities are 'too elitist?'. Excuse me? I thought that was the
> >whole point.
> 
> Oh, that's easy.
> 
> - Being employed is a good thing.
> - People with degrees are more likely to be employed, and to have higher
>   salaries, than people without.
> - Therefore everybody should have a degree, and miraculously they will all
>   be employed and have higher salaries.

Well, it's thinking like that that keeps the skills gap nice and wide.
Hmm... can't be all bad then.

-- 
Piers Cawley
www.iterative-software.com

Re: Enough!

[Paul Makepeace]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:31:07PM +, Steve Mynott wrote:
> Can't you just kill on "politics" subject? 
> 
> (I will try and use the subject header in my posts anyway so people
> can)
> 
> Personally I find discussion of politics more interesting than
> American TV shows about vampires.

Concur.

I share JP's being impressed at how flame free it was. Bravo!

> -- 
> 1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> work like you don't need the money dance like nobody's watching love
> like you've never been hurt.

I misread that (ENOCOMMA),

dance like you've been hurt, love like you need the money, and work
like you're being watched

:-)

Paul

Re: Enough!

[Natalie Ford]

At 15:09 14/05/01, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
>Please, would you take the politics elsewhere? Some of us really don't
>give a shit either way.

Hear hear!  I am getting tired of hitting delete... :)


-
Natalie Ford
Iterative Software Ltd. http://www.iterative-software.com
Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Ltd.  http://www.yacsc.com 

Re: like a phoenix from the flames

[David Cantrell]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:35:44PM +0100, Natalie Ford wrote:
> At 09:58 14/05/01, James Powell wrote:
> >The Perl Journal arrived this morning...
> 
> Mine too!  You read Dave's article and the credits at the end of Damian's? :)

It will come as no surprise to any of yhou that mine hasn't arrived :-)

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

  Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our "most advanced operating system
   in the world" which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Dave Hodgkinson]

Martin Ling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Exactly. This is the same population that brought you 'Hey, why are
> there loads of schools with below average results!'

That was a direct quote. Tory education minister. "We want to raise
standard so that more than half of schools get above average results".

Arsewit.

-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
   

Re: like a phoenix from the flames

[Natalie Ford]

At 09:58 14/05/01, James Powell wrote:
>The Perl Journal arrived this morning...

Mine too!  You read Dave's article and the credits at the end of Damian's? :)


-
Natalie Ford
Iterative Software Ltd. http://www.iterative-software.com
Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Ltd.  http://www.yacsc.com 

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Martin Ling]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 07:23:48PM +0100, Roger Burton West wrote:
> 
> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 02:10:56PM -0400, Piers Cawley wrote:
> >
> > And while I'm about it, can I please kill anyone who complains that
> > our universities are 'too elitist?'. Excuse me? I thought that was the
> > whole point.
> 
> Oh, that's easy.
> 
> - Being employed is a good thing.
> - People with degrees are more likely to be employed, and to have higher
>   salaries, than people without.
> - Therefore everybody should have a degree, and miraculously they will all
>   be employed and have higher salaries.

Exactly. This is the same population that brought you 'Hey, why are
there loads of schools with below average results!'


Martin

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Paul Makepeace]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:09:16PM +0100, Chris Heathcote wrote:
> They seem to have taken anything remotely fun out of chemistry sets these
> days...

And put them into pharmacies...

Paul

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Chris Heathcote]

on 14/5/01 9:24 pm, Robin Szemeti wrote:

> What the hell happened to the youth that did amusing things with steam
> engines, collected stamps and had a chemistry set? .. give a 16 year old
> a chemistry set today and they'd try and inject it.

They seem to have taken anything remotely fun out of chemistry sets these
days...

c.
-- 
 every day, computers are making people easier to use

  http://www.unorthodoxstyles.com

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Robin Szemeti]

On Mon, 14 May 2001, you wrote:
> Piers Cawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > I respectfully suggest that we don't train the little buggers in
> > schools. We teach them stuff. 
> 
> Wrong. We show them how to learn.

I respectfully suggest that 50% of them have no interest whatsoever in
learning anything. Whats worse they have a determined interest in
preventing the remaining 50% from learning anything either. Add to
that a restrictive legal system that punishes any teacher who
attempts to control them and couple this with an education system that
believes that 'everyone should achieve something' and the best way of
reallising that goal is to make the 'something' so simple that a hamster
could pass it and you begin to get the picture.

Most universities are no longer intrested in academic standards but have
been forced into getting as many bums on seats as possible and out of the
door three years later with a piece of paper, because points mean prizes
and if thats what you have to do to keep the funding coming in .. then
thats what you do. Given that the raw material coming up from the schools
is more poorly educated year by year and the picture becomes all to
dismal.

What the hell happened to the youth that did amusing things with steam
engines, collected stamps and had a chemistry set? .. give a 16 year old
a chemistry set today and they'd try and inject it.

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said "requires windows 95 or better"
So I installed Linux!

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Dave Hodgkinson]

Piers Cawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> ACtually working out *how* to do this is left as an exercise for the
> interested reader.

A solved problem. Getting inept, inadequate, arse-covering halfwits
masquerading as "teachers" to do it, is another thing. Present
companies' relatives excluded of course.

-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
   

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Piers Cawley]

Dave Hodgkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Piers Cawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > I respectfully suggest that we don't train the little buggers in
> > schools. We teach them stuff. 
> 
> Wrong. We show them how to learn.

Indeed. An vocational training is absolutely the wrong way of going
about doing this. Teach 'em to think critically, to understand
something about statistics and to enjoy learning for its own sake and
I'll try an employ most of 'em. 

ACtually working out *how* to do this is left as an exercise for the
interested reader.

-- 
Piers Cawley
www.iterative-software.com

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Roger Burton West]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 02:10:56PM -0400, Piers Cawley wrote:

>And while I'm about it, can I please kill anyone who complains that
>our universities are 'too elitist?'. Excuse me? I thought that was the
>whole point.

Oh, that's easy.

- Being employed is a good thing.
- People with degrees are more likely to be employed, and to have higher
  salaries, than people without.
- Therefore everybody should have a degree, and miraculously they will all
  be employed and have higher salaries.

R

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Chris Benson]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:57:59AM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:

> I appoint Greg as my Culture Adviser and as head of the church.  Any
> volunteers for my other minions?  Even if you don't want a cabinet
> post, please feel free to volunteer as a Henchman.  You'll get 25 days
> holiday a year, a nice uniform and a free Hench.

I bags Roya^WState High Executioner!  I'll supply my own tools 'o the trade.

-- 
Chris Benson
- feeling grumpy

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Dave Hodgkinson]

Piers Cawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I respectfully suggest that we don't train the little buggers in
> schools. We teach them stuff. 

Wrong. We show them how to learn.


-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
   

Re: chocolate was Re: Monitors

[Paul Makepeace]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 12:12:42PM +, Steve Mynott wrote:
> I have bought US Hersey (sp?) bars in the UK and thought they were

Hersey make their products from the ground up bones of dead rats stuck
in the wheels of NY subway trains.

It's *true*!

Paul

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Piers Cawley]

Matthew Byng-Maddick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Mon, 14 May 2001, David Cantrell wrote:
> > On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 12:11:13PM +, Steve Mynott wrote:
> > > Well one advantage of BP or Shell is if you don't like either company
> > > then you can simply choose not to purchase their products.
> > So how, pray, do I opt out of the international oil companies' cartel?
> 
> use the tube and electric trains? Most power stations aren't oil fired
> AFAIK.

No, they're gas fired. And who owns the gas rigs?

-- 
Piers Cawley
www.iterative-software.com

Re: BOFHs requiring license

[Simon Cozens]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 01:58:41PM -0400, Piers Cawley wrote:
> Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Rule one, man, rule one.
> What? Always be wary of smiling old men?

 purl, rule one?
 it has been said that rule one is "People Are Stupid"

-- 
  "They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the
   Wright brothers.  But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."
 -- Carl Sagan

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Piers Cawley]

"will" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> How do you suggest we train our workforce when schools (which are funded by
> tax) can't afford more than a couple of rooms full of archimedes?

I respectfully suggest that we don't train the little buggers in
schools. We teach them stuff. Then, when the come out with (one hopes)
a good general education tending towards a specialisation in the
subjects they are interested in, their employers invest some money
training them to do the specific job that they're employed to do.

Wanders off muttering about the idiotic downgrading of 'academic'
teaching in favour of generic vocational training...

And while I'm about it, can I please kill anyone who complains that
our universities are 'too elitist?'. Excuse me? I thought that was the
whole point.

Ahem.

-- 
Piers Cawley
www.iterative-software.com

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Dave Hodgkinson]

Piers Cawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Lucy McWilliam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > On Mon, 14 May 2001, Martin Ling wrote:
> > 
> > > Appears I'm out of a job too from the end of the month, so count me in.
> > > The mighty army of unemployed Perlers takes over the world...
> > 
> > Is this the point where I can try and recruit some of you compscis to the
> > bioinformatics revolution?  Hack around and cure cancer at the same
> > time ;-)
> 
> Hey, I tried, but I didn't get the contract. Job was looking pretty
> darned interesting too. And I didn't have to write CGI scripts.

Doesn't knowing Lincoln Stein's email address count as "expertise"?

-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
   

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Piers Cawley]

Lucy McWilliam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Mon, 14 May 2001, Martin Ling wrote:
> 
> > Appears I'm out of a job too from the end of the month, so count me in.
> > The mighty army of unemployed Perlers takes over the world...
> 
> Is this the point where I can try and recruit some of you compscis to the
> bioinformatics revolution?  Hack around and cure cancer at the same
> time ;-)

Hey, I tried, but I didn't get the contract. Job was looking pretty
darned interesting too. And I didn't have to write CGI scripts.


-- 
Piers Cawley
www.iterative-software.com

Re: BOFHs requiring license

[Piers Cawley]

Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> * Jonathan Peterson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > David Cantrell wrote:
> > > On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:37:23AM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:
> > > > General Election. Anyone responding with nonsense about him winning the
> > > > second world war will be given a history lesson :)
> 
> No one won the 2nd world war, Germany just managed to lose it by attacking
> too many people.

Alan Turing and the blokes at Bletchley who cracked the German
submarine codes did a pretty damn good job of making sure that Britain
didn't lose it though...

The graphs of tonnage of shipping lost against tonnage of shipping
being built look pretty bloody scary.

-- 
Piers Cawley
www.iterative-software.com

Re: BOFHs requiring license

[Piers Cawley]

Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:37:23AM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:
> > Here's a pretty fundamental issue. Why do so many people seem to think that
> > low taxes are good? 
> 
> Rule one, man, rule one.

What? Always be wary of smiling old men?

-- 
Piers Cawley
www.iterative-software.com

Re: BOFHs requiring license

[Piers Cawley]

"Jonathan Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> At 16:41 13/05/01 +0100, you wrote:
> >* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > > At 15:27 13/05/2001, Simon Cozens wrote:
> > >
> >
> >if only the SNP covered the whole of the UK
> 
> Err, they do.
> 
>  the affairs of England and Westminster but not vice versa>

I thought the Scots Nats were vaguely good about not voting on stuff
that didn't affect Scotland.

-- 
Piers Cawley
www.iterative-software.com

Re: BOFHs requiring license

[Piers Cawley]

"Robert Shiels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "If a man is not a socialist by the time he is twenty, he has no heart.
> If he is not a conservative by the time he is 40, he has no brain."
> -Winston Churchill
> 
> discuss :-)

Fine, but please discuss it anywhere but here.

-- 
Piers Cawley
www.iterative-software.com

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Steve Mynott]

Tony Bowden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> With a sponge and a rusty spanner?

she said: "Eh, I know you, and you cannot sing."
I said: "that's nothing--you should hear me play piano."

-- 
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED]

there are some politicians who, if their constituents were cannibals,
would promise them missionaries for dinner. -- h.l. mencken

Re: [OT] Anyone want a Defender?

[mallum]

you still selling this Dave. If so Id definetly be interested. My ones
completely bust.

mallum

on Fri, May 04, 2001 at 09:35:19PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
> I've got bored with my Defender, so am selling it.  Anyone interested?
> 
> ObLondon.pm: defender beats watching buffy on the stupid-box any day of
> the week.
> 
> -- 
> David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/
> 
>   Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our "most advanced operating system
>in the world" which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
> 

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Tony Bowden]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:07:25PM +0100, Martin Ling wrote:
> > So how, pray, do I opt out of the international oil companies' cartel?
> With a drill
>> With a solar panel and some batteries.

With a sponge and a rusty spanner?

Tony
-- 
--
 Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/
  epiphany just went to ground, 3 wise men just can't be found
--

 PGP signature

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Lucy McWilliam]

On Mon, 14 May 2001, Martin Ling wrote:

> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 05:14:21PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> >
> > What do you mean `naked'? As in one of those freaky hairless ones? Or
> > are you in the habit of dressing your cats up in little outfits? Do lots
> > of people dress their cats up? Is there a GAP for cats? Complete with
> > irritatingly happy cats dancing to 70s and 80s pop music?
>
> I'm not sure. Hang on, I'll ask a cat...
> http://pkl.net/~martin/catpaw.jpg
> I'll take that as a no.

ROTFL.

L.

Re: BOFHs requiring license

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Greg McCarroll" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> * Martin Ling ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 01:30:42PM +0100, Chris Ball wrote:
> > > That's genius! I know, I'll call it.. Charismatic Leadership Theory.
> > > Wait. Someone already did, rather a long time ago now.. :)
> > Don't start me on all the stating-the-obviousness in psychology.

> I have some obvious theories about psychology - such as why psychologists
> never get invited to parties.
> 


The principle of generating small amounts of finite improbability
by  simply  hooking  the  logic circuits of a Bambleweeny 57 Sub-
Meson Brain to an atomic vector plotter  suspended  in  a  strong
Brownian  Motion  producer  (say  a  nice hot cup of tea) were of
course well understood - and such generators were often  used  to
break  the  ice  at  parties  by  making all the molecules in the
hostess's undergarments leap simultaneously one foot to the left,
in accordance with the Theory of Indeterminacy.

Many respectable physicists said that they weren't going to stand
for  this  -  partly  because it was a debasement of science, but
mostly because they didn't get invited to those sort of parties.


/Robert

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Martin Ling]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 05:14:21PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> 
> What do you mean `naked'? As in one of those freaky hairless ones? Or
> are you in the habit of dressing your cats up in little outfits? Do lots
> of people dress their cats up? Is there a GAP for cats? Complete with
> irritatingly happy cats dancing to 70s and 80s pop music?

I'm not sure. Hang on, I'll ask a cat...

http://pkl.net/~martin/catpaw.jpg

I'll take that as a no.


Martin

Re: BOFHs requiring license

[Martin Ling]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 05:09:32PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> 
> I have some obvious theories about psychology - such as why psychologists
> never get invited to parties.

You know, I think there might actually have been a study on those lines.

Some of the metapsychology stuff is great though. " 'An investigation of
the power of the psychology experiment' : 80 students are given one
hundred pages each of random numbers. They are instructed to add up
any ten pairs of numbers on each sheet, then tear it up in thirty-two
pieces before continuing onto the next one. After three hours, some of
the participants are still going and have to be stopped by the
experimenter...".

Also the paper (a couple of years ago?) which investigated every single
paper in several journals for the last twenty years or so, and concluded
that modern psychology is based on a sample of the population in which
70% are American psychology students aged 18-22. Predictable, yes, but
the actual figure((s) - there were some more) were very amusing.


Martin

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Greg McCarroll]

* [EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 02:56:03PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
> > On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 12:11:13PM +, Steve Mynott wrote:
> > 
> > > Well one advantage of BP or Shell is if you don't like either company
> > > then you can simply choose not to purchase their products.
> > 
> > So how, pray, do I opt out of the international oil companies' cartel?
> 
> stop using cars, electricity and public transport.
> 

surely your not suggesting he hides in his flat with some spam and rice?

;-)
-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Greg McCarroll]

* Alex Gough ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > 
> > I appoint Greg as my Culture Adviser and as head of the church.  Any
> > volunteers for my other minions?  Even if you don't want a cabinet
> > post, please feel free to volunteer as a Henchman.  You'll get 25 days
> > holiday a year, a nice uniform and a free Hench.
> > 
> 
> ... Before I kill you, Mr Bond, I want you to sign this confession of your
> own incompetance using your ordinary looking pen.
> 
> 
> 

What do you mean `naked'? As in one of those freaky hairless ones? Or
are you in the habit of dressing your cats up in little outfits? Do lots
of people dress their cats up? Is there a GAP for cats? Complete with
irritatingly happy cats dancing to 70s and 80s pop music?

I need to know in my role as head of the church - after all to be a 
sucessful religion, before I come up with any principals I am going
to have to choose a group to hate, and i have to say, people who
dress their cats up sounds like a good choice. ;-)

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net

Re: BOFHs requiring license

[Greg McCarroll]

* Martin Ling ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 01:30:42PM +0100, Chris Ball wrote:
> > 
> > That's genius! I know, I'll call it.. Charismatic Leadership Theory.
> > 
> > Wait. Someone already did, rather a long time ago now.. :)
> 
> Don't start me on all the stating-the-obviousness in psychology.
> 

I have some obvious theories about psychology - such as why psychologists
never get invited to parties.

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net

Re: JAMES DUNCAN

[Simon Cozens]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 05:54:26PM +0200, Niklas Nordebo wrote:
> > It's crap, but... http://www.ecdl.com/
> Isn't that more of a Microsoft Driving License?

It may have escaped your notice but the people who need it tend to be the
people likely to use Microsoft software...

-- 
"IT support will, from 1 October 2000, be provided by college and
departmental card locks." - J-P Stacey

Re: JAMES DUNCAN

[Martin Ling]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 06:02:41PM +0200, Philip Newton wrote:
> 
> > There's a (now unsurprisingly defunct) computer shop just up the road
> > from me with a www..freeserve.co.uk address - up in
> > three-inch letterrs on a huge full-length sign. Classic. 
> 
> :) Especially since some free services undoubtedly have clauses forbidding
> you from using the email address/web space for commercial gain.

Mmm, should have thought of that.

Actually, the place is being done up by new tenants now so I ought to
cop a pic off the digicam on the way home while I still have a chance.


Martin

Re: JAMES DUNCAN

[Martin Ling]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 05:54:26PM +0200, Niklas Nordebo wrote:
> 
> Isn't that more of a Microsoft Driving License?

To be fair to it - I would have expected so, but a quick inspection
seems to show it is entirely generic. Utterly basic too, yes, but one
less class of stupid question would always be nice.


Martin

RE: BOUNCE london-pm@lists.dircon.co.uk: Non-member submission from [Melissa Fivelman ]

[Jonathan Stowe]

On Mon, 14 May 2001, Melissa Fivelman wrote:

> So does that mean James Duncan's address is off or not?
>

Er no that was simply some advice about how to deal with a similar
situation if it should arise in the future.

In fact I had already removed [EMAIL PROTECTED] from the list of
subscribers prior to replying as could have been determined empirically
from the lack of new messages to that address.

> Thanks
> melissa
>

No problem.

/J\
> -Original Message-
> From: Jonathan Stowe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: 14 May 2001 15:57
> To: Melissa Fivelman
> Subject: Re: BOUNCE [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Non-member submission
> from [Melissa Fivelman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
>
>
> On Mon, 14 May 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >
> > Just to let you know that we have had numerous e-mails coming in addressed
> > to James Duncan from your address.
> >
>
> For your future reference to unsubscribe from a majordomo managed list you
> should send a message to majordomo@ with
>
>   unsubscribe  
>
> Or alternatively you should e-mail the list owner which is usually not the
> Reply-To: address
>
> /J\
>
>
> This email including any attachments is confidential and may be legally
> privileged. If you have received it in error please advise the sender
> immediately by return email and then delete it from your system.The
> unauthorized use, distribution, copying or alteration of this email is
> strictly forbidden.
>
>

Re: JAMES DUNCAN

[Philip Newton]

Martin Ling wrote:
> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 05:45:05PM +0200, Philip Newton wrote:
> > 
> > Or what happens fairly frequently over here: companies which have
> > http://www.company.de/ but their email address is 
> > company@$NATIONALISP or, worse, company@$FREE_EMAIL_SERVICE. Looks
> > pretty stupid to me.
> 
> There's a (now unsurprisingly defunct) computer shop just up the road
> from me with a www..freeserve.co.uk address - up in
> three-inch letterrs on a huge full-length sign. Classic. 

:) Especially since some free services undoubtedly have clauses forbidding
you from using the email address/web space for commercial gain.

Cheers,
Philip
-- 
Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

Re: JAMES DUNCAN

[Roger Burton West]

On or about Mon, May 14, 2001 at 05:54:26PM +0200, Niklas Nordebo typed:
>On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 04:50:53PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
>> It's crap, but... http://www.ecdl.com/
>Isn't that more of a Microsoft Driving License?

You expected something else from politicians (granted, not professional
ones, but tech-managers acting as politicals) writing in 1997?

Roger

Re: JAMES DUNCAN

[Martin Ling]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 05:45:05PM +0200, Philip Newton wrote:
> 
> Or what happens fairly frequently over here: companies which have
> http://www.company.de/ but their email address is company@$NATIONALISP or,
> worse, company@$FREE_EMAIL_SERVICE. Looks pretty stupid to me.

There's a (now unsurprisingly defunct) computer shop just up the road
from me with a www..freeserve.co.uk address - up in
three-inch letterrs on a huge full-length sign. Classic. 

An entire amusing history about the place and the previous dodgy outfit
in the same block of units, but another time...


Martin

Re: JAMES DUNCAN

[Dominic Mitchell]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 04:50:53PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 04:45:13PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
> > Particularly with the lack of an Internet Driving License, anyway.
> 
> It's crap, but... http://www.ecdl.com/

Just quickly looking through syllabus of this and yes, it's not great.
But it also shows potential for being ported to GNOME or KDE.  :-)

-Dom

Re: JAMES DUNCAN

[Niklas Nordebo]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 04:50:53PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 04:45:13PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
> > Particularly with the lack of an Internet Driving License, anyway.
> 
> It's crap, but... http://www.ecdl.com/

Isn't that more of a Microsoft Driving License?

-- 
Niklas Nordebo -><- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -><- +447966251290
 "The day is seven hours and fifteen minutes old, and already it's
crippled with the weight of my evasions, deceit, and downright lies"

Re: see attachment

[David H. Adler]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 04:44:16PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
> On Sat, May 12, 2001 at 04:08:27PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> > Of course we could make a cyberpunk movie instead, now let 
> > me thing about it  
> 
> IN AD 1987, PERL WAS BEGINNING.

...and no one was prepared for the INFOBOT HOLOCAUST

dha
-- 
David H. Adler - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
Don't be afraid, we're only elves.
- stimps, http://mindlink.net/stimpy/

Re: JAMES DUNCAN

[Simon Cozens]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 04:45:13PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
> Particularly with the lack of an Internet Driving License, anyway.

It's crap, but... http://www.ecdl.com/

-- 
emacs: Terminal type "emacs" is not powerful enough to run Emacs.

Re: JAMES DUNCAN

[Dominic Mitchell]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 04:42:27PM +0100, Roger Burton West wrote:
> On or about Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:32:32PM +, Steve Mynott typed:
> >Dominic Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >> If you really work for ebookers.com, why are you sending from a hotmail
> >> address?  It doesn't lend credence to your request to have somebody else
> >> unsubscribed from this list.
> >Actually it shows more "clue" than trying to use the average IT
> >supplied Exchange service (which may well be broken).
> 
> Yup, until I rebuilt ex-employer's email system about half the people
> there were using hotmail instead. No client ever questioned this.

This says more about the clients than anything else.

Unfortunately, it's the low-level of thought that seems to be universal.
Particularly with the lack of an Internet Driving License, anyway.

-Dom (You must be at least this high to ride the Interweb)

Re: JAMES DUNCAN

[Philip Newton]

Roger Burton West wrote:
> Yup, until I rebuilt ex-employer's email system about half the people
> there were using hotmail instead. No client ever questioned this.

I know I would question that. I think it looks *sooo* unprofessional to have
a hotmail address as a business.

Or what happens fairly frequently over here: companies which have
http://www.company.de/ but their email address is company@$NATIONALISP or,
worse, company@$FREE_EMAIL_SERVICE. Looks pretty stupid to me.

Or companies what pick company.com instead of company.de (e.g. hochbahn.com,
which is a Hamburg public transport company -- I suppose some companies
might have claims to possibly international expansion, but a *city's*
*public transport* *system*?)

Cheers,
Philip
-- 
Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

Re: see attachment

[Simon Cozens]

On Sat, May 12, 2001 at 04:08:27PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> Of course we could make a cyberpunk movie instead, now let 
> me thing about it  

IN AD 1987, PERL WAS BEGINNING.

-- 
The PROPER way to handle HTML postings is to cancel the article, then hire a
hitman to kill the poster, his wife and kids, and fuck his dog and smash his
computer into little bits.  Anything more is just extremism.
- Paul Tomblin, in the monastery.

Re: JAMES DUNCAN

[Roger Burton West]

On or about Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:32:32PM +, Steve Mynott typed:
>Dominic Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> If you really work for ebookers.com, why are you sending from a hotmail
>> address?  It doesn't lend credence to your request to have somebody else
>> unsubscribed from this list.
>Actually it shows more "clue" than trying to use the average IT
>supplied Exchange service (which may well be broken).

Yup, until I rebuilt ex-employer's email system about half the people
there were using hotmail instead. No client ever questioned this.

R

Re: JAMES DUNCAN

[Dominic Mitchell]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:32:32PM +, Steve Mynott wrote:
> Dominic Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>  
> > If you really work for ebookers.com, why are you sending from a hotmail
> > address?  It doesn't lend credence to your request to have somebody else
> > unsubscribed from this list.
> 
> Actually it shows more "clue" than trying to use the average IT
> supplied Exchange service (which may well be broken).

Perhaps.  But if I were managing the list (I'm not), I'd be extremely
wary of some hotmail.com address attempting to unsubscribe somebody
else on spec.  In fact, I'd be wary of any attempt, but I'd give it
slightly more credibility if it even came from the same domain.

-Dom

P.S.  Yes, I know how reliable using domains as authentication is.  But
first impressions make a difference.

Re: JAMES DUNCAN

[Steve Mynott]

Dominic Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
 
> If you really work for ebookers.com, why are you sending from a hotmail
> address?  It doesn't lend credence to your request to have somebody else
> unsubscribed from this list.

Actually it shows more "clue" than trying to use the average IT
supplied Exchange service (which may well be broken).

-- 
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED]

the chief value of money lies in the fact that one lives in a world
in which it is overestimated.  -- h. l. mencken

Re: Enough!

[Steve Mynott]

Jonathan Stowe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On 14 May 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
> 
> >
> > Please, would you take the politics elsewhere? Some of us really don't
> > give a shit either way.
> >
> 
> I did warn them but they appeared to ignore me ...

Can't you just kill on "politics" subject? 

(I will try and use the subject header in my posts anyway so people
can)

Personally I find discussion of politics more interesting than
American TV shows about vampires.

-- 
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED]

work like you don't need the money dance like nobody's watching love
like you've never been hurt.

Re: see attachment

[David H. Adler]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 09:23:01AM +0100, Matthew Jones wrote:
> 
> Bikay: Muahahaha! Your feeble strict style cannot defeat me! It is gay!

I'm trying to get some *work* done here...

dha, having trouble doing work while laughing this hard...

-- 
David H. Adler - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
"I didn't say I'd never slay another vampire.  It's not like I have
fluffy bunny feelings about them.  I'm just not going to get too
extra-curricular about it." - Buffy

Re: Enough!

[Jonathan Peterson]

At 15:59 14/05/01 +0100, you wrote:
>On 14 May 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
>
> >
> > Please, would you take the politics elsewhere? Some of us really don't
> > give a shit either way.
> >
>
>I did warn them but they appeared to ignore me ...

Actually I think we can be very proud of ourselves for having had a flame 
free politics thread. I think we all deserve a drink.


P.S. Next meeting I shall be standing on a chair and distributing copies of 
my new pamphlet "The Scientific and Social Reform Party or 'Jack and the 
Journeyman': A Treatise on the Equitable and Scientific running of Society 
for the Good of All and the Furtherment of Mankind." Also available from WE 
Thompson and Sons, Printers, Orpington Yard, price 2d.



>/J\

-- 
Jonathan Peterson
Technical Manager, Unified Ltd, 020 7383 6092
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Steve Mynott]

David Cantrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 12:11:13PM +, Steve Mynott wrote:
> 
> > Well one advantage of BP or Shell is if you don't like either company
> > then you can simply choose not to purchase their products.
> 
> So how, pray, do I opt out of the international oil companies' cartel?

Private companies often try and fix prices and limit competition but
this rarely works since usually one of the cartel members breaks the
agreement in order to make more money.

Thus OPEC agreements usually break down like they did last month when
they produced 700,000 barrels per day more than they had agreed.



My original point also stands which is there is a basic distinction
between a state which forces people to do things like pay tax and a
company (no matter how large or "nasty") which can't (even although it
still may supply a widely used product).

And of course if a company runs or has direct influence on a state and
laws are passed to favour it then we aren't talking about the market
anymore but state power.

It's a basic failing of socialism to believe that what they term
"economic power" (selling things) is more of an evil than "political
power" (putting people in prison or taking money from them).

They naively believe force (jails, guns, theft etc) can be used
responsibly to combat people's free choices of buying and selling
things, which for some strange reason they think is "wrong".

Even if their ends were right their means are based on violence and
ultimately self-defeating.

  "When leading by the way of the Tao, abominate the use of force, for
  it causes resistance, and loss of strength, showing the Tao has
  not been followed well.  Achieve results but not through
  violence, for it is against the natural way, and damages both
  others' and one's own true self."

-- 
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED]

"no man or group of men shall aggress upon the person or property of anyone
else."  -- murray n. rothbard

RE: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Jonathan Stowe]

On Mon, 14 May 2001, Roger Horne wrote:

> On Mon 14 May, Matthew Jones wrote:
>
> > No, class sizes are down in primary schools (were primaries specified on the
> > pledge card?). Secondary school classes are level or *slightly* up, IIRC.
>
> Some spokesman on the radio this morning promised to reduce class sizes in
> primary schools and to recruit more secondary school teachers. How can they
> achieve the former without recruiting more teachers? Merge the Dept of
> Education and MAFF?
>

Culling Children ... now there's an idea.

/J\

Re: JAMES DUNCAN

[Dominic Mitchell]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 12:24:54PM +0100, Melissa Fivelman wrote:
> Just to let you know that we have had numerous e-mails coming in addressed 
> to James Duncan from your address.
> 
> He no longer works for ebookers. Please delete his address asap.
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Melissa Fivelman
> IT Administrator
> ebookers.com plc
> +44 20 7489 2213 (Direct)
> +44 20 7489 2200 (Fax)

If you really work for ebookers.com, why are you sending from a hotmail
address?  It doesn't lend credence to your request to have somebody else
unsubscribed from this list.

If he doesn't work for you, then make sure his address bounces.  That
will far increase the likelyhood of his being removed from this list.

-Dom

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Simon Cozens]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:49:26PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
> Unless the door to the pupil's mind is open then there is no teacher.
> And he was enlightened.

http://simon-cozens.org/hacks/grok

-- 
For detailed information on the "info" command, type "man info".
- plan9 has a bad day

Re: Enough!

[Jonathan Stowe]

On 14 May 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:

>
> Please, would you take the politics elsewhere? Some of us really don't
> give a shit either way.
>

I did warn them but they appeared to ignore me ...

/J\

Good Omens movie

[Nathan Torkington]

Terry Gilliam signed to it.

  http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010514/re/cannes_deals_dc_2.html

Nat

Re: Enough!

[Steve Mynott]

Dave Hodgkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Please, would you take the politics elsewhere? Some of us really don't
> give a shit either way.

Dave (the other one) told us to!

-- 
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED]

a classic is something that everybody wants to have read and nobody
wants to read.  -- mark twain

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Jonathan Peterson]

At 15:36 14/05/01 +0100, you wrote:
>On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 11:17:14AM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
> > 2. A teacher can't be alone in a room with a pupil unless the door is 
> open.
>
>I know it's one of those Zen koans, but I just can't work it out.

ROFL

Unless the door to the pupil's mind is open then there is no teacher.

And he was enlightened.



-- 
Jonathan Peterson
Technical Manager, Unified Ltd, 020 7383 6092
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Cult leaders (was: a subject line with no relevance to what was being discussed)

[David Cantrell]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:22:25PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote:

>Perhaps the difference between your 
> set of leaders and mine, is that the ones you mentioned all had personality 
> cults to a degree, although in the case of Churchill I wouldn't have said 
> so.

There certainly seems to be one around his memory now :-(  And of the ones
I listed, I would have thought de Gaulle was far weaker than Churchill in
the personality-cult stakes.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

  Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our "most advanced operating system
   in the world" which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh

Re: BOFHs requiring license

[Martin Ling]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 01:30:42PM +0100, Chris Ball wrote:
> 
> That's genius! I know, I'll call it.. Charismatic Leadership Theory.
> 
> Wait. Someone already did, rather a long time ago now.. :)

Don't start me on all the stating-the-obviousness in psychology.


Martin

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Simon Cozens]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 11:17:14AM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
> 2. A teacher can't be alone in a room with a pupil unless the door is open.

I know it's one of those Zen koans, but I just can't work it out.

-- 
Feed me on TOASTIES! There's no HALL for PHILOSOPHERS ON FRIDAYS.
- Henry Braun is Oxford Zippy

Re: OT - Perl

[David Cantrell]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:29:41AM -0500, will wrote:

> Has anyone seen some perl around here?  I thought I saw some earlier but it
> sems to have gone now :-)

I think I saw perl last week, but it got miffed at the lack of camel
action and went home.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

  Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our "most advanced operating system
   in the world" which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh

Re: OT - Perl

[Roger Burton West]

On or about Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:29:41AM -0500, will typed:
>Has anyone seen some perl around here?  I thought I saw some earlier but it
>sems to have gone now :-)

use Politics;
use Quantum::Superpositions;

(the rest I leave to your imagination)

OT - Perl

[will]

Has anyone seen some perl around here?  I thought I saw some earlier but it
sems to have gone now :-)

Re: BOFHs requiring license

[Jonathan Peterson]

At 15:05 14/05/01 +0100, you wrote:
>On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 01:11:30PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
>
> > David Cantrell wrote:
> >
> > > Isn't it interesting that Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, de Gaulle and
> > > Churchill were all 'charismatic' leaders.
> >
> > Hmmm... As were Svein Forkbeard, Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar,
> > Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, Alfred the Great, Tokugawa, ...
> >
> > Hey - I know this is a bit wild, but maybe there's some kind of
> > connection between 'charisma' and 'leadership'...
>
>As I think you realised, I didn't meant the usual sort of charisma.  I
>mean more along the lines of those 'charismatic' evangelist churches and
>other religious cults.

:-) Too good an opportunity to miss. Perhaps the difference between your 
set of leaders and mine, is that the ones you mentioned all had personality 
cults to a degree, although in the case of Churchill I wouldn't have said 
so.

However, in the case of Alexander the Great, certainly, I would say they 
had a personality cult similar to or greater than Hitler's (or to a sect 
leader, or whatever). Alexander inspired God like devotion in his men, and 
was as insanely ambitious as Hitler. And a much much much better general. 
Military leaders have quite often had significant personality cults within 
their own armies (right up to Montgomery and McArthur).

We tend to condemn personality cults outright these days. However, I think 
for much of history they were the basis of social organisation to a greater 
or lesser degree. Certainly northern Europe before (and to some extend 
after (vikings, saxons etc)) the Romans was based around small king's whose 
leadership was determined mainly by personal loyalty. In some ways quite 
democratic, in other ways deeply unstable. Probably the single greatest 
reason the Vikings didn't conquer Europe.




-- 
Jonathan Peterson
Technical Manager, Unified Ltd, 020 7383 6092
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: BOFHs requiring license

[Chris Ball]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 01:11:30PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
> Hey - I know this is a bit wild, but maybe there's some kind of
> connection between 'charisma' and 'leadership'...

That's genius! I know, I'll call it.. Charismatic Leadership Theory.

Wait. Someone already did, rather a long time ago now.. :)

~~C.

-- 
Chris Ball.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] || http://printf.net/
finger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"The world is complex; sendmail.cf reflects this."

JAMES DUNCAN

[Melissa Fivelman]

Just to let you know that we have had numerous e-mails coming in addressed 
to James Duncan from your address.

He no longer works for ebookers. Please delete his address asap.

Many thanks

Melissa Fivelman
IT Administrator
ebookers.com plc
+44 20 7489 2213 (Direct)
+44 20 7489 2200 (Fax)


_
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Alex Gough]

> 
> I appoint Greg as my Culture Adviser and as head of the church.  Any
> volunteers for my other minions?  Even if you don't want a cabinet
> post, please feel free to volunteer as a Henchman.  You'll get 25 days
> holiday a year, a nice uniform and a free Hench.
> 

... Before I kill you, Mr Bond, I want you to sign this confession of your
own incompetance using your ordinary looking pen.



Alex Gough
-- 
Guyfawkes made a very loyal plan to to blow up the King and the bishops
and everybody else in Parliament, with gunpowder.  Although he failed
attempts are made every year on St Guyfawke's Day to remind the
Parliament that it would have been a Good Thing had he succeeded.

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[David Cantrell]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:05:06PM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
> On Mon, 14 May 2001, David Cantrell wrote:
> > On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 12:11:13PM +, Steve Mynott wrote:
> > > Well one advantage of BP or Shell is if you don't like either company
> > > then you can simply choose not to purchase their products.
> > So how, pray, do I opt out of the international oil companies' cartel?
> 
> use the tube and electric trains? Most power stations aren't oil fired
> AFAIK.

Right, and how do I eliminate plastics from my life?  And drugs, and all
the other million and one things which are made with their products?  How
do I get home after the trains have stopped?

And how do I ensure that my privately run waste disposal service doesn't
use them?  Or my childrens' privately run school?

In summary - libertarians' claims that customers can choose not to use
$company's products if they dislike the company are patently absurd.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

  Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our "most advanced operating system
   in the world" which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh

Enough!

[Dave Hodgkinson]

Please, would you take the politics elsewhere? Some of us really don't
give a shit either way.

Unless Robin writes a Democracy::Approx module.

-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
   

RE: Politikal Disskusion

[Matthew Jones]

> However, for the political discussion, I think I can sum up 
> and point out that we oddly enough have seen to made our usual
> points...

Yeah, sorry about all the tired old rants I've spewqed today - 'fraid the
Adams news put me in a *really* shitty mood.

-- 
matt jones | all heart, no brains.

Politikal Disskusion

[Mark Fowler]

Hmm.

Leon once complained that I always read everything and then post and
unknowingly summed up the point everyone was trying to make by simply
rephrasing and clarifying a few issues (in the real world they call this
'plagiarism'.)  He said this was a problem, because he always ended up
linking to me rather than people who came up with original ideas.

However, for the political discussion, I think I can sum up and point out
that we oddly enough have seen to made our usual points...

* All Operating Systems Suck in various ways (Democracy, Dictatorship)
* All Distributions Suck in various ways (Labour, The Conservatives)
* All Licensing Systems Suck As They All End Up Having Restricting
  Addenda As Well As Trying To Promote What They're About (The Left, The
  Right, etc)
* All Content Management Systems Suck (Parties, Media, other vectors for
   and systems for change)
* Throwing Money at Something Doesn't Help If You Don't Have The Good
  Programmers And/Or Good Management Systems (The NHS, Schools)

Later.

Mark.

-- 
 These are my views, not my company's.  You may copy these views and
 alter them under the same licence as perl itself.

RE: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Matthew Jones]

> > So how, pray, do I opt out of the international oil 
> > companies' cartel?
> 
> use the tube and electric trains? Most power stations aren't oil fired
> AFAIK.

Not even then, I guess. Am I right in thinkming that many plastics are
(by-)products of the refining process? So that's internal combustion
engines, anything made from or out of plastics (whoa), some electricity ...

-- 
matt
"The (void) is that which stands right in the middle of this and That." 

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Martin Ling]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 02:56:03PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
> 
> So how, pray, do I opt out of the international oil companies' cartel?

Adapt that gas-guzzling beast of yours to run on rape seed oil.


Martin

Re: BOFHs requiring license

[Dave Hodgkinson]

Cross David - dcross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Oh, and Churchill was an arsehole. As the population worked out in the 1945
> General Election. Anyone responding with nonsense about him winning the
> second world war will be given a history lesson :)

And the following "Socialist" government managed to keep the country
on rations until well after Germany was back on its feet again.

Don't forget also, Britiain was in black and white until well into the
Sixties, while German was experimenting with red and the US was fully
technicolour by the late fifties.


-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
   

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Martin Ling]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 02:56:03PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
> 
> So how, pray, do I opt out of the international oil companies' cartel?

With a solar panel and some batteries.


Martin

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Martin Ling]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 02:56:03PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
> 
> So how, pray, do I opt out of the international oil companies' cartel?

With a drill.


Martin

Re: BOFHs requiring license

[David Cantrell]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 01:11:30PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote:

> David Cantrell wrote:
> 
> > Isn't it interesting that Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, de Gaulle and
> > Churchill were all 'charismatic' leaders.
> 
> Hmmm... As were Svein Forkbeard, Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar,
> Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, Alfred the Great, Tokugawa, ...
> 
> Hey - I know this is a bit wild, but maybe there's some kind of
> connection between 'charisma' and 'leadership'...

As I think you realised, I didn't meant the usual sort of charisma.  I
mean more along the lines of those 'charismatic' evangelist churches and
other religious cults.

Judged by those standards, Alexander, Julius Caesar and Alfred the Great
don't count.  I don't know enough about the others to be able to form an
opinion.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

  Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our "most advanced operating system
   in the world" which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Matthew Byng-Maddick]

On Mon, 14 May 2001, David Cantrell wrote:
> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 12:11:13PM +, Steve Mynott wrote:
> > Well one advantage of BP or Shell is if you don't like either company
> > then you can simply choose not to purchase their products.
> So how, pray, do I opt out of the international oil companies' cartel?

use the tube and electric trains? Most power stations aren't oil fired
AFAIK.

MBM

-- 
Matthew Byng-Maddick  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> +44 20  8980 5714  (Home)
http://colondot.net/ +44 7956 613942  (Mobile)
All language designers are arrogant. Goes with the territory...
 -- Larry Wall

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[jduncan]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 02:56:03PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 12:11:13PM +, Steve Mynott wrote:
> 
> > Well one advantage of BP or Shell is if you don't like either company
> > then you can simply choose not to purchase their products.
> 
> So how, pray, do I opt out of the international oil companies' cartel?

stop using cars, electricity and public transport.

-- 
James A. Duncan
W: www.fotango.com
P: +44 207 251 7021
F: +44 207 608 3592

 PGP signature

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[David Cantrell]

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 12:11:13PM +, Steve Mynott wrote:

> Well one advantage of BP or Shell is if you don't like either company
> then you can simply choose not to purchase their products.

So how, pray, do I opt out of the international oil companies' cartel?

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

  Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our "most advanced operating system
   in the world" which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh

Re: Perl training

[Mark Fowler]

On Mon, 14 May 2001, Martin Ling wrote:

> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 12:27:20PM +0100, Chris Ball wrote:
> >
> > OoOoOoh, Red Snapper! Very tasty!
> >
> > 
>
> Heh. It's *so* good, and has even managed to remain obscure. This is
> probably because you can't get it anywhere any more, of course...
>

It's not that obscure, though admitadly you can't get hold of it anymore.

Anyone who finds me a copy gets to drink from the firehose.

Later.

Mark.

Re: UK programmers left-wing? was Re: BOFHs requiring license

[Steve Mynott]

Matthew Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> > (have you ever
> > noticed how left wingers tend to be less tolerant to the fact 
> > that their views may be wrong than right wing people?)
> 
> Ah, that's because we left-wingers *are* right, and also because secretly,
> silently, you right-wingers know it, too. :P

It's more likely the "right-wingers" (not that I really like that
term) have had phases of being left-wingers in the past and know _all_
about it.

-- 
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED]

mary had a little key - she kept it in escrow, and every thing that
mary said, the feds were sure to know.  -- sam simpson

Re: Bioinformatics (was RE: Politics)

[Andy Williams]

On Mon, 14 May 2001, Lucy McWilliam wrote:

>
> On Mon, 14 May 2001, Andy Williams wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 14 May 2001, Lucy McWilliam wrote:
> > > Is this the point where I can try and recruit some of you compscis to the
> > > bioinformatics revolution?  Hack around and cure cancer at the same time ;-)
> >
> > Been there, done that at the Sanger Centre hacking around with genes
> > though...
>
> Why'd ya leave?  OK, so the Sanger doesn't pay as much as industry, but
> it's a noble cause.
>
> L.
>
You got it in one... just the money issue really an agency phoned me
one day offering loads of wonga to go contracting... so I did.
I'll go back to it when I've earnt enough/got so pissed of with marketing
depts!!

Andy

Re: chocolate was Re: Monitors

[Lucy McWilliam]

On 14 May 2001, Steve Mynott wrote:

> Lucy McWilliam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > On 14 May 2001, Steve Mynott wrote:
> >
> > > I don't like English chocolate which doesn't in fact contain very much
> > > chocolate at all if you study the percentage cocoa solids.
> > Better than American chcolate.
>
> I have bought US Hersey (sp?) bars in the UK and thought they were
> better than the average bar of Cadbury's Dairy Milk.

Ick, NIME.  And I didn't realise the Forrest Gump quote is true...how
silly.


L.
"Life is like a box of chocolates...a cheap, thoughtless, perfunctory gift
no one ever asks for."

RE: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Matthew Jones]

> class but reducing the pupil/adult ration, I guess.
-^^

Heh. I bet it was the MAFF comment which planted that one.

-- 
matt
"The (void) is that which stands right in the middle of this and That." 

RE: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Matthew Jones]

> Some spokesman on the radio this morning promised to reduce 
> class sizes in primary schools and to recruit more secondary school 
> teachers. How can they achieve the former without recruiting more 
> teachers? 

I'd assume that they would recruit more Classroom Assistants. Sort of
paradidacts who seem to me to be playing an increasingly large role in
primary education. Not strictly reducing the size of the class but reducing
the pupil/adult ration, I guess.

-- 
matt
"The (void) is that which stands right in the middle of this and That." 

Re: Bioinformatics (was RE: Politics)

[Lucy McWilliam]

On Mon, 14 May 2001, Andy Williams wrote:

> On Mon, 14 May 2001, Lucy McWilliam wrote:
> > Is this the point where I can try and recruit some of you compscis to the
> > bioinformatics revolution?  Hack around and cure cancer at the same time ;-)
>
> Been there, done that at the Sanger Centre hacking around with genes
> though...

Why'd ya leave?  OK, so the Sanger doesn't pay as much as industry, but
it's a noble cause.

L.

RE: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Roger Horne]

On Mon 14 May, Matthew Jones wrote:
 
> No, class sizes are down in primary schools (were primaries specified on the
> pledge card?). Secondary school classes are level or *slightly* up, IIRC.

Some spokesman on the radio this morning promised to reduce class sizes in
primary schools and to recruit more secondary school teachers. How can they
achieve the former without recruiting more teachers? Merge the Dept of
Education and MAFF?

Roger
-- 
Roger Horne
11 New Square, Lincoln's Inn, London WC2A 3QB
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.hrothgar.co.uk/