[LUTE] Re: tone colour echo

[Dan Winheld]

We are indeed talking about two unrelated pieces. Wolfgang was not 
talking about the two (or three?) Recercari "Senza Canto" in the D-Mbs 
Mus. 266 -but instead one of the tone colour echo examples:


"a nice example for tone colour (echo) in higher register is:
   Che debo far che me consegli amore
   BSB Mus. ms. 267 No. 32"

Whereas I was referencing Tristan van Neumann's post:

"Ms. 266 has a really crazy Aquila ricercar, No 25 (f. 24v), which 
starts at the lowest course and goes up to 7/h. It's also a senza canto 
ricercar.

Has anyone played this beast?... "

-Which I got from "The Lute Society Music Editions - The Collected Lute 
Music of Marco Dall'Aquila"; where it is piece no. 9.


-And to pile on a touch more potential confusion, Matthew Daillie then 
referenced one of the  other "Recercari senza canto" (a much shorter, 
but very beautiful one; can be found as no. 3a or 3b in the same book) 
played by Lukas Henning.


"Am 30.01.2018 um 20:10 schrieb Matthew Daillie:
    In his latest Memo video, Lukas Henning plays another Marco recercar
    'senza canto' and adds a few inventions of his own for a lute with
    several broken strings!
    [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6=g-Lzgk8N-yM
    Best,
    Matthew "

-Hope we are sorted out now. I'm also finding more "tone color echo" 
bits all over the place in Marco's works, and some more as well in Gorzanis.


You guys got me playing more early Renaissance music than I intended 
today; I WAS in the midst of a non-stop Baroque lute Weiss & Bach binge, 
and you've all ruined that! :-D

Dan

On 1/30/2018 12:53 PM, Rainer wrote:

Dear Dan,

You and Wolfgang seem to be talking about two different pieces.

Ms 267, No. 32 (page 50) does not fit your description.

Rainer

On 30.01.2018 19:56, Dan Winheld wrote:
SO glad to hear that someone else has discovered this wonderful 
bizarre masterpiece by Marco... I have been studying and practicing 
it for about a year, almost memorized. It is the ultimate 
"Recercar/fantasia senza il canto" ever written; surpassing all other 
pieces of this tiny subgenre; generated of course by the unfortunate 
frequency of chantarelle disintegration- usually mid-performance, 
esp. in the pre-nylon string days.


I highly recommend it; especially as a study piece. It's probably a 
lousy recital/concert piece unless you are playing for a small group 
of lute nerds. And, most importantly; if you try to play it on a lute 
with unison basses it will sound like crap. Really! A high quality 6 
(or 7) course, and the 8ves MUST include courses 4 and 5 as well as 
the other basses- and this piece really pops! Actual gut helps too, 
we want crisp enunciation of the notes as you fret up to 7 & 8 frets 
on the bass courses.


The only other piece of music in any category that I have heard that 
starts on the lowest bass notes and stays there for so long is 
Gorecki's Symphony #3 "Sorrowful Songs" -utterly different mood, 
though. Marco's is very upbeat, almost humorous.


Giacomo Gorzanis is another lute composer/player who repeated phrases 
changing only courses and positions for tone color reasons.


Dan

On 1/30/2018 8:27 AM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:
Ms. 266 has a really crazy Aquila ricercar, No 25 (f. 24v), which 
starts at the lowest course and goes up to 7/h. It's also a senza 
canto ricercar.

Has anyone played this beast?...



Am 30.01.2018 um 16:46 schrieb Wolfgang Wiehe:

    a nice example for tone colour (echo) in higher register is:
    Che debo far che me consegli amore
    BSB Mus. ms. 267 No. 32
    (Marco dall Aquila?)
    greetings
    Wolfgang

http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00032067/images/index.h 

tml?id=00032067=79=193.174.98.30=%2F=150%25 



    p.s. I made a transcription in french Tab some years ago, if 
some one

    is interested




    Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. Januar 2018 um 15:46 Uhr
    Von: "Joachim Lüdtke" <jo.lued...@t-online.de>
    An: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
    Betreff: [LUTE] Re: tone colour echo
    Nor do I, but Brown records two later editions. It may be 
interesting
    (at least for someone who is fascinated by the music and the 
history of
    its editions) to compare the texts. Years ago I copied the 
piece from

    the CNRS edition, which should be based on the earliest known
    publication, that is on 1554[6]. If I wasn't out of my mind while
    copying the music, there are several measures where you would 
have to
    pick the final note in cadences from the octave string of the 
third
    course. Later I saw the piece in one of the later prints, and 
all this
    fine play with octave strings and resulting sonorities, which 
to me
    seemed so perfectly matched the way De Rippe intavolated the 
echos of
    the chanson, was edited out ... I have however never 
investigated much
    time into this, 

[LUTE] Re: tone colour echo

[Tristan von Neumann]

If you look closely, it says Ms. 266 :)

Am 30.01.2018 um 21:53 schrieb Rainer:

Dear Dan,

You and Wolfgang seem to be talking about two different pieces.

Ms 267, No. 32 (page 50) does not fit your description.

Rainer

On 30.01.2018 19:56, Dan Winheld wrote:
SO glad to hear that someone else has discovered this wonderful 
bizarre masterpiece by Marco... I have been studying and practicing it 
for about a year, almost memorized. It is the ultimate 
"Recercar/fantasia senza il canto" ever written; surpassing all other 
pieces of this tiny subgenre; generated of course by the unfortunate 
frequency of chantarelle disintegration- usually mid-performance, esp. 
in the pre-nylon string days.


I highly recommend it; especially as a study piece. It's probably a 
lousy recital/concert piece unless you are playing for a small group 
of lute nerds. And, most importantly; if you try to play it on a lute 
with unison basses it will sound like crap. Really! A high quality 6 
(or 7) course, and the 8ves MUST include courses 4 and 5 as well as 
the other basses- and this piece really pops! Actual gut helps too, we 
want crisp enunciation of the notes as you fret up to 7 & 8 frets on 
the bass courses.


The only other piece of music in any category that I have heard that 
starts on the lowest bass notes and stays there for so long is 
Gorecki's Symphony #3 "Sorrowful Songs" -utterly different mood, 
though. Marco's is very upbeat, almost humorous.


Giacomo Gorzanis is another lute composer/player who repeated phrases 
changing only courses and positions for tone color reasons.


Dan

On 1/30/2018 8:27 AM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:
Ms. 266 has a really crazy Aquila ricercar, No 25 (f. 24v), which 
starts at the lowest course and goes up to 7/h. It's also a senza 
canto ricercar.

Has anyone played this beast?...



Am 30.01.2018 um 16:46 schrieb Wolfgang Wiehe:

    a nice example for tone colour (echo) in higher register is:
    Che debo far che me consegli amore
    BSB Mus. ms. 267 No. 32
    (Marco dall Aquila?)
    greetings
    Wolfgang

http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00032067/images/index.h
tml?id=00032067=79=193.174.98.30=%2F=150%25

    p.s. I made a transcription in french Tab some years ago, if 
some one

    is interested




    Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. Januar 2018 um 15:46 Uhr
    Von: "Joachim Lüdtke" <jo.lued...@t-online.de>
    An: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
    Betreff: [LUTE] Re: tone colour echo
    Nor do I, but Brown records two later editions. It may be 
interesting
    (at least for someone who is fascinated by the music and the 
history of
    its editions) to compare the texts. Years ago I copied the piece 
from

    the CNRS edition, which should be based on the earliest known
    publication, that is on 1554[6]. If I wasn't out of my mind while
    copying the music, there are several measures where you would 
have to

    pick the final note in cadences from the octave string of the third
    course. Later I saw the piece in one of the later prints, and 
all this

    fine play with octave strings and resulting sonorities, which to me
    seemed so perfectly matched the way De Rippe intavolated the 
echos of
    the chanson, was edited out ... I have however never 
investigated much
    time into this, and it may even be that the piece is full of 
errors in
    1554[6] or the copy the CNRS editors where working from, and 
that all

    ideas of mine about fine play, octave strings and sonorities are
    nonsense ...
    Best
    Joachim
    Lektorat & Korrektorat
    Dr. Joachim Lüdtke
    Blumenstraße 20
    D-90762 Fürth
    Tel.: 0911 / 976 45 20
    Mail: jo.lued...@t-online.de
    Mitglied im Verband der freien Lektorinnen und Lektoren
    [1]www.vfll.de
    [2]www.lektoren.de/profil/joachim-luedtke
    -Original-Nachricht-
    Betreff: [LUTE] Re: tone colour echo
    Datum: 2018-01-30T14:00:09+0100
    Von: "Rainer" <rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
    An: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
    Looks like I don't have that book (Brown 1554[6]) - 
g

    Rainer
    On 30.01.2018 11:58, Joachim Lüdtke wrote:
    > Dear Rainer,
    >
    > De Rippe's intavolation of Gentian's "Dieu qui conduit" 
("L'Eccho").

    >
    > Best
    >
    > Joachim
    >
    >
    > -Original-Nachricht-
    > Betreff: [LUTE] tone colour echo
    > Datum: 2018-01-30T11:45:30+0100
    > Von: "Rainer" <rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
    > An: "Lute net" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
    >
    > Dear lute netters,
    >
    > I may have posted this may years ago already - I don't remember.
    >
    > In the duet treble "Sellinger's Round" (Marsh, p. 182 and 
Dd.3.18, f.
    5r) there is a tone colour echo in bars 57 and 58 - the

[LUTE] Re: tone colour echo

[Rainer]

Dear Dan,

You and Wolfgang seem to be talking about two different pieces.

Ms 267, No. 32 (page 50) does not fit your description.

Rainer

On 30.01.2018 19:56, Dan Winheld wrote:

SO glad to hear that someone else has discovered this wonderful bizarre masterpiece by 
Marco... I have been studying and practicing it for about a year, almost memorized. It is 
the ultimate "Recercar/fantasia senza il canto" ever written; surpassing all 
other pieces of this tiny subgenre; generated of course by the unfortunate frequency of 
chantarelle disintegration- usually mid-performance, esp. in the pre-nylon string days.

I highly recommend it; especially as a study piece. It's probably a lousy 
recital/concert piece unless you are playing for a small group of lute nerds. And, 
most importantly; if you try to play it on a lute with unison basses it will sound 
like crap. Really! A high quality 6 (or 7) course, and the 8ves MUST include 
courses 4 and 5 as well as the other basses- and this piece really pops! Actual gut 
helps too, we want crisp enunciation of the notes as you fret up to 7 & 8 frets 
on the bass courses.

The only other piece of music in any category that I have heard that starts on the lowest 
bass notes and stays there for so long is Gorecki's Symphony #3 "Sorrowful 
Songs" -utterly different mood, though. Marco's is very upbeat, almost humorous.

Giacomo Gorzanis is another lute composer/player who repeated phrases changing 
only courses and positions for tone color reasons.

Dan

On 1/30/2018 8:27 AM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:

Ms. 266 has a really crazy Aquila ricercar, No 25 (f. 24v), which starts at the 
lowest course and goes up to 7/h. It's also a senza canto ricercar.
Has anyone played this beast?...



Am 30.01.2018 um 16:46 schrieb Wolfgang Wiehe:

    a nice example for tone colour (echo) in higher register is:
    Che debo far che me consegli amore
    BSB Mus. ms. 267 No. 32
    (Marco dall Aquila?)
    greetings
    Wolfgang

http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00032067/images/index.h
tml?id=00032067=79=193.174.98.30=%2F=150%25

    p.s. I made a transcription in french Tab some years ago, if some one
    is interested




    Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. Januar 2018 um 15:46 Uhr
    Von: "Joachim Lüdtke" <jo.lued...@t-online.de>
    An: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
    Betreff: [LUTE] Re: tone colour echo
    Nor do I, but Brown records two later editions. It may be interesting
    (at least for someone who is fascinated by the music and the history of
    its editions) to compare the texts. Years ago I copied the piece from
    the CNRS edition, which should be based on the earliest known
    publication, that is on 1554[6]. If I wasn't out of my mind while
    copying the music, there are several measures where you would have to
    pick the final note in cadences from the octave string of the third
    course. Later I saw the piece in one of the later prints, and all this
    fine play with octave strings and resulting sonorities, which to me
    seemed so perfectly matched the way De Rippe intavolated the echos of
    the chanson, was edited out ... I have however never investigated much
    time into this, and it may even be that the piece is full of errors in
    1554[6] or the copy the CNRS editors where working from, and that all
    ideas of mine about fine play, octave strings and sonorities are
    nonsense ...
    Best
    Joachim
    Lektorat & Korrektorat
    Dr. Joachim Lüdtke
    Blumenstraße 20
    D-90762 Fürth
    Tel.: 0911 / 976 45 20
    Mail: jo.lued...@t-online.de
    Mitglied im Verband der freien Lektorinnen und Lektoren
    [1]www.vfll.de
    [2]www.lektoren.de/profil/joachim-luedtke
    -Original-Nachricht-
    Betreff: [LUTE] Re: tone colour echo
    Datum: 2018-01-30T14:00:09+0100
    Von: "Rainer" <rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
    An: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
    Looks like I don't have that book (Brown 1554[6]) - g
    Rainer
    On 30.01.2018 11:58, Joachim Lüdtke wrote:
    > Dear Rainer,
    >
    > De Rippe's intavolation of Gentian's "Dieu qui conduit" ("L'Eccho").
    >
    > Best
    >
    > Joachim
    >
    >
    > -Original-Nachricht-
    > Betreff: [LUTE] tone colour echo
    > Datum: 2018-01-30T11:45:30+0100
    > Von: "Rainer" <rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
    > An: "Lute net" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
    >
    > Dear lute netters,
    >
    > I may have posted this may years ago already - I don't remember.
    >
    > In the duet treble "Sellinger's Round" (Marsh, p. 182 and Dd.3.18, f.
    5r) there is a tone colour echo in bars 57 and 58 - the same notes on
    different courses.
    >
    > I wonder if anybody knows of any other such echo

[LUTE] Re: tone colour echo

[Rainer]

According to my tab file the treble is from Marsh. I think the treble in 
Dd.3.18 is almost identical.

The ground is a reconstruction by NN.

Rainer

On 30.01.2018 20:09, Leonard Williams wrote:

I am assuming the ground is from Marsh, the treble from Dd.3.18.
Correct?

Thanks and regards,

Leonard Williams
-Original Message-
From: Rainer 
To: Lute net 
Sent: Tue, Jan 30, 2018 5:44 am
Subject: [LUTE] tone colour echo
Dear lute netters,
I may have posted this may years ago already - I don't remember.
In the duet treble "Sellinger's Round" (Marsh, p. 182 and Dd.3.18, f.
5r) there is a tone colour echo in bars 57 and 58 - the same notes on
different courses.
I wonder if anybody knows of any other such echo in Renaissance lute
music.
By the way, it is tempting to play a similar echo on bars 53 and 54.
Rainer
To get on or off this list see list information at
[1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

References

1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: tone colour echo (and senza canto)

[Tristan von Neumann]

A very good video indeed - it made me pledge a Patreon donation. :)

You should all support this digitally native lute hero - his videos are 
really a joy to watch.



Am 30.01.2018 um 20:10 schrieb Matthew Daillie:

In his latest Memo video, Lukas Henning plays another Marco recercar
'senza canto' and adds a few inventions of his own for a lute with
several broken strings!
[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6=g-Lzgk8N-yM
Best,
Matthew
On 30/01/2018 19:56, Dan Winheld wrote:

  SO glad to hear that someone else has discovered this wonderful
  bizarre masterpiece by Marco... I have been studying and practicing
  it for about a year, almost memorized. It is the ultimate
  "Recercar/fantasia senza il canto" ever written; surpassing all
  other pieces of this tiny subgenre; generated of course by the
  unfortunate frequency of chantarelle disintegration- usually
  mid-performance, esp. in the pre-nylon string days.
  I highly recommend it; especially as a study piece. It's probably a
  lousy recital/concert piece unless you are playing for a small group
  of lute nerds. And, most importantly; if you try to play it on a
  lute with unison basses it will sound like crap. Really! A high
  quality 6 (or 7) course, and the 8ves MUST include courses 4 and 5
  as well as the other basses- and this piece really pops! Actual gut
  helps too, we want crisp enunciation of the notes as you fret up to
  7 & 8 frets on the bass  courses.
  The only other piece of music in any category that I have heard that
  starts on the lowest bass notes and stays there for so long is
  Gorecki's Symphony #3 "Sorrowful Songs" -utterly different mood,
  though. Marco's is very upbeat, almost humorous.
  Giacomo Gorzanis is another lute composer/player who repeated
  phrases changing only courses and positions for tone color reasons.
  Dan
  On 1/30/2018 8:27 AM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:

  Ms. 266 has a really crazy Aquila ricercar, No 25 (f. 24v), which
  starts at the lowest course and goes up to 7/h. It's also a senza
  canto ricercar.
  Has anyone played this beast?...

--

References

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6=g-Lzgk8N-yM


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: tone colour echo (and senza canto)

[Matthew Daillie]

   In his latest Memo video, Lukas Henning plays another Marco recercar
   'senza canto' and adds a few inventions of his own for a lute with
   several broken strings!
   [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6=g-Lzgk8N-yM
   Best,
   Matthew
   On 30/01/2018 19:56, Dan Winheld wrote:

 SO glad to hear that someone else has discovered this wonderful
 bizarre masterpiece by Marco... I have been studying and practicing
 it for about a year, almost memorized. It is the ultimate
 "Recercar/fantasia senza il canto" ever written; surpassing all
 other pieces of this tiny subgenre; generated of course by the
 unfortunate frequency of chantarelle disintegration- usually
 mid-performance, esp. in the pre-nylon string days.
 I highly recommend it; especially as a study piece. It's probably a
 lousy recital/concert piece unless you are playing for a small group
 of lute nerds. And, most importantly; if you try to play it on a
 lute with unison basses it will sound like crap. Really! A high
 quality 6 (or 7) course, and the 8ves MUST include courses 4 and 5
 as well as the other basses- and this piece really pops! Actual gut
 helps too, we want crisp enunciation of the notes as you fret up to
 7 & 8 frets on the bass  courses.
 The only other piece of music in any category that I have heard that
 starts on the lowest bass notes and stays there for so long is
 Gorecki's Symphony #3 "Sorrowful Songs" -utterly different mood,
 though. Marco's is very upbeat, almost humorous.
 Giacomo Gorzanis is another lute composer/player who repeated
 phrases changing only courses and positions for tone color reasons.
 Dan
 On 1/30/2018 8:27 AM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:

 Ms. 266 has a really crazy Aquila ricercar, No 25 (f. 24v), which
 starts at the lowest course and goes up to 7/h. It's also a senza
 canto ricercar.
 Has anyone played this beast?...

   --

References

   1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6=g-Lzgk8N-yM


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: tone colour echo

[Leonard Williams]

   I am assuming the ground is from Marsh, the treble from Dd.3.18.
   Correct?

   Thanks and regards,

   Leonard Williams
   -Original Message-
   From: Rainer 
   To: Lute net 
   Sent: Tue, Jan 30, 2018 5:44 am
   Subject: [LUTE] tone colour echo
   Dear lute netters,
   I may have posted this may years ago already - I don't remember.
   In the duet treble "Sellinger's Round" (Marsh, p. 182 and Dd.3.18, f.
   5r) there is a tone colour echo in bars 57 and 58 - the same notes on
   different courses.
   I wonder if anybody knows of any other such echo in Renaissance lute
   music.
   By the way, it is tempting to play a similar echo on bars 53 and 54.
   Rainer
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: tone colour echo

[Dan Winheld]

SO glad to hear that someone else has discovered this wonderful bizarre 
masterpiece by Marco... I have been studying and practicing it for about 
a year, almost memorized. It is the ultimate "Recercar/fantasia senza il 
canto" ever written; surpassing all other pieces of this tiny subgenre; 
generated of course by the unfortunate frequency of chantarelle 
disintegration- usually mid-performance, esp. in the pre-nylon string days.


I highly recommend it; especially as a study piece. It's probably a 
lousy recital/concert piece unless you are playing for a small group of 
lute nerds. And, most importantly; if you try to play it on a lute with 
unison basses it will sound like crap. Really! A high quality 6 (or 7) 
course, and the 8ves MUST include courses 4 and 5 as well as the other 
basses- and this piece really pops! Actual gut helps too, we want crisp 
enunciation of the notes as you fret up to 7 & 8 frets on the bass  
courses.


The only other piece of music in any category that I have heard that 
starts on the lowest bass notes and stays there for so long is Gorecki's 
Symphony #3 "Sorrowful Songs" -utterly different mood, though. Marco's 
is very upbeat, almost humorous.


Giacomo Gorzanis is another lute composer/player who repeated phrases 
changing only courses and positions for tone color reasons.


Dan

On 1/30/2018 8:27 AM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:
Ms. 266 has a really crazy Aquila ricercar, No 25 (f. 24v), which 
starts at the lowest course and goes up to 7/h. It's also a senza 
canto ricercar.

Has anyone played this beast?...



Am 30.01.2018 um 16:46 schrieb Wolfgang Wiehe:

    a nice example for tone colour (echo) in higher register is:
    Che debo far che me consegli amore
    BSB Mus. ms. 267 No. 32
    (Marco dall Aquila?)
    greetings
    Wolfgang

http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00032067/images/index.h
tml?id=00032067=79=193.174.98.30=%2F=150%25

    p.s. I made a transcription in french Tab some years ago, if some 
one

    is interested




    Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. Januar 2018 um 15:46 Uhr
    Von: "Joachim Lüdtke" <jo.lued...@t-online.de>
    An: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
    Betreff: [LUTE] Re: tone colour echo
    Nor do I, but Brown records two later editions. It may be 
interesting
    (at least for someone who is fascinated by the music and the 
history of
    its editions) to compare the texts. Years ago I copied the piece 
from

    the CNRS edition, which should be based on the earliest known
    publication, that is on 1554[6]. If I wasn't out of my mind while
    copying the music, there are several measures where you would 
have to

    pick the final note in cadences from the octave string of the third
    course. Later I saw the piece in one of the later prints, and all 
this

    fine play with octave strings and resulting sonorities, which to me
    seemed so perfectly matched the way De Rippe intavolated the 
echos of
    the chanson, was edited out ... I have however never investigated 
much
    time into this, and it may even be that the piece is full of 
errors in
    1554[6] or the copy the CNRS editors where working from, and that 
all

    ideas of mine about fine play, octave strings and sonorities are
    nonsense ...
    Best
    Joachim
    Lektorat & Korrektorat
    Dr. Joachim Lüdtke
    Blumenstraße 20
    D-90762 Fürth
    Tel.: 0911 / 976 45 20
    Mail: jo.lued...@t-online.de
    Mitglied im Verband der freien Lektorinnen und Lektoren
    [1]www.vfll.de
    [2]www.lektoren.de/profil/joachim-luedtke
    -Original-Nachricht-
    Betreff: [LUTE] Re: tone colour echo
    Datum: 2018-01-30T14:00:09+0100
    Von: "Rainer" <rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
    An: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
    Looks like I don't have that book (Brown 1554[6]) - 
g

    Rainer
    On 30.01.2018 11:58, Joachim Lüdtke wrote:
    > Dear Rainer,
    >
    > De Rippe's intavolation of Gentian's "Dieu qui conduit" 
("L'Eccho").

    >
    > Best
    >
    > Joachim
    >
    >
    > -Original-Nachricht-
    > Betreff: [LUTE] tone colour echo
    > Datum: 2018-01-30T11:45:30+0100
    > Von: "Rainer" <rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
    > An: "Lute net" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
    >
    > Dear lute netters,
    >
    > I may have posted this may years ago already - I don't remember.
    >
    > In the duet treble "Sellinger's Round" (Marsh, p. 182 and 
Dd.3.18, f.
    5r) there is a tone colour echo in bars 57 and 58 - the same 
notes on

    different courses.
    >
    > I wonder if anybody knows of any other such echo in Renaissance 
lute

    music.
    >
    > By the way, it is tempting to play a similar echo on bars 53 
and 54.

    >
    > Rainer
    &g

[LUTE] Re: tone colour echo

[Tristan von Neumann]

Ms. 266 has a really crazy Aquila ricercar, No 25 (f. 24v), which starts 
at the lowest course and goes up to 7/h. It's also a senza canto ricercar.

Has anyone played this beast?...



Am 30.01.2018 um 16:46 schrieb Wolfgang Wiehe:

a nice example for tone colour (echo) in higher register is:
Che debo far che me consegli amore
BSB Mus. ms. 267 No. 32
(Marco dall Aquila?)
greetings
Wolfgang

http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00032067/images/index.h
tml?id=00032067=79=193.174.98.30=%2F=150%25

p.s. I made a transcription in french Tab some years ago, if some one
is interested




Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. Januar 2018 um 15:46 Uhr
Von: "Joachim Lüdtke" <jo.lued...@t-online.de>
An: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
    Betreff: [LUTE] Re: tone colour echo
Nor do I, but Brown records two later editions. It may be interesting
(at least for someone who is fascinated by the music and the history of
its editions) to compare the texts. Years ago I copied the piece from
the CNRS edition, which should be based on the earliest known
publication, that is on 1554[6]. If I wasn't out of my mind while
copying the music, there are several measures where you would have to
pick the final note in cadences from the octave string of the third
course. Later I saw the piece in one of the later prints, and all this
fine play with octave strings and resulting sonorities, which to me
seemed so perfectly matched the way De Rippe intavolated the echos of
the chanson, was edited out ... I have however never investigated much
time into this, and it may even be that the piece is full of errors in
1554[6] or the copy the CNRS editors where working from, and that all
ideas of mine about fine play, octave strings and sonorities are
nonsense ...
Best
Joachim
Lektorat & Korrektorat
Dr. Joachim Lüdtke
Blumenstraße 20
D-90762 Fürth
Tel.: 0911 / 976 45 20
Mail: jo.lued...@t-online.de
Mitglied im Verband der freien Lektorinnen und Lektoren
[1]www.vfll.de
[2]www.lektoren.de/profil/joachim-luedtke
-Original-Nachricht-
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: tone colour echo
Datum: 2018-01-30T14:00:09+0100
Von: "Rainer" <rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
An: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Looks like I don't have that book (Brown 1554[6]) - g
Rainer
On 30.01.2018 11:58, Joachim Lüdtke wrote:
> Dear Rainer,
>
> De Rippe's intavolation of Gentian's "Dieu qui conduit" ("L'Eccho").
>
> Best
>
> Joachim
>
>
> -Original-Nachricht-
> Betreff: [LUTE] tone colour echo
> Datum: 2018-01-30T11:45:30+0100
> Von: "Rainer" <rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
> An: "Lute net" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>
> Dear lute netters,
>
> I may have posted this may years ago already - I don't remember.
>
> In the duet treble "Sellinger's Round" (Marsh, p. 182 and Dd.3.18, f.
5r) there is a tone colour echo in bars 57 and 58 - the same notes on
different courses.
>
> I wonder if anybody knows of any other such echo in Renaissance lute
music.
>
> By the way, it is tempting to play a similar echo on bars 53 and 54.
>
> Rainer
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
>
>


References

1. http://www.vfll.de/
2. http://www.lektoren.de/profil/joachim-luedtke
3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: tone colour echo

[Tristan von Neumann]

So what is the difference to what I meant, other than that there are 
more notes shifted to a different course?
It is clearly the same effect - same notes on different courses, albeit 
a little smaller in size?


how is this not a tone colour echo?

r___a|r|__f_d
d___c|d___f|h___f
_|d_f_h|i
a|a|a
__c_a|a|_
_|_|_


By the way, this exact question, though in a broader sense, was posted 
by yours truly a few days ago, but crickets. :)



Am 30.01.2018 um 16:12 schrieb Rainer:

Yes, it's in 1562[10] and - yes - there are tone colour echoes.

This is remarkable since it requires to go up to "l" (at least) on the 
second course or lower courses.


Very interesting.

Rainer

On 30.01.2018 15:46, Joachim Lüdtke wrote:
Nor do I, but Brown records two later editions. It may be interesting 
(at least for someone who is fascinated by the music and the history 
of its editions) to compare the texts. Years ago I copied the piece 
from the CNRS edition, which should be based on the earliest known 
publication, that is on 1554[6]. If I wasn't out of my mind while 
copying the music, there are several measures where you would have to 
pick the final note in cadences from the octave string of the third 
course. Later I saw the piece in one of the later prints, and all this 
fine play with octave strings and resulting sonorities, which to me 
seemed so perfectly matched the way De Rippe intavolated the echos of 
the chanson, was edited out ... I have however never investigated much 
time into this, and it may even be that the piece is full of errors in 
1554[6] or the copy the CNRS editors where working from, and that all 
ideas of mine about fine play, octave strings and sonorities are 
nonsense ...


Best

Joachim


Lektorat & Korrektorat
Dr. Joachim Lüdtke
Blumenstraße 20
D-90762 Fürth
Tel.: 0911 / 976 45 20
Mail: jo.lued...@t-online.de
Mitglied im Verband der freien Lektorinnen und Lektoren
www.vfll.de
www.lektoren.de/profil/joachim-luedtke


-Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: tone colour echo
Datum: 2018-01-30T14:00:09+0100
Von: "Rainer" <rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
An: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>

Looks like I don't have that book (Brown 1554[6]) - g

Rainer

On 30.01.2018 11:58, Joachim Lüdtke wrote:

Dear Rainer,

De Rippe's intavolation of Gentian's "Dieu qui conduit" ("L'Eccho").

Best

Joachim


-Original-Nachricht-
Betreff: [LUTE] tone colour echo
Datum: 2018-01-30T11:45:30+0100
Von: "Rainer" <rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
An: "Lute net" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>

Dear lute netters,

I may have posted this may years ago already - I don't remember.

In the duet treble "Sellinger's Round" (Marsh, p. 182 and Dd.3.18, f. 
5r) there is a tone colour echo in bars 57 and 58 - the same notes on 
different courses.


I wonder if anybody knows of any other such echo in Renaissance lute 
music.


By the way, it is tempting to play a similar echo on bars 53 and 54.

Rainer



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html









[LUTE] Re: tone colour echo

[Wolfgang Wiehe]

   a nice example for tone colour (echo) in higher register is:
   Che debo far che me consegli amore
   BSB Mus. ms. 267 No. 32
   (Marco dall Aquila?)
   greetings
   Wolfgang

   http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/0003/bsb00032067/images/index.h
   tml?id=00032067=79=193.174.98.30=%2F=150%25

   p.s. I made a transcription in french Tab some years ago, if some one
   is interested




   Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. Januar 2018 um 15:46 Uhr
   Von: "Joachim Lüdtke" <jo.lued...@t-online.de>
   An: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Betreff: [LUTE] Re: tone colour echo
   Nor do I, but Brown records two later editions. It may be interesting
   (at least for someone who is fascinated by the music and the history of
   its editions) to compare the texts. Years ago I copied the piece from
   the CNRS edition, which should be based on the earliest known
   publication, that is on 1554[6]. If I wasn't out of my mind while
   copying the music, there are several measures where you would have to
   pick the final note in cadences from the octave string of the third
   course. Later I saw the piece in one of the later prints, and all this
   fine play with octave strings and resulting sonorities, which to me
   seemed so perfectly matched the way De Rippe intavolated the echos of
   the chanson, was edited out ... I have however never investigated much
   time into this, and it may even be that the piece is full of errors in
   1554[6] or the copy the CNRS editors where working from, and that all
   ideas of mine about fine play, octave strings and sonorities are
   nonsense ...
   Best
   Joachim
   Lektorat & Korrektorat
   Dr. Joachim Lüdtke
   Blumenstraße 20
   D-90762 Fürth
   Tel.: 0911 / 976 45 20
   Mail: jo.lued...@t-online.de
   Mitglied im Verband der freien Lektorinnen und Lektoren
   [1]www.vfll.de
   [2]www.lektoren.de/profil/joachim-luedtke
   -Original-Nachricht-
   Betreff: [LUTE] Re: tone colour echo
   Datum: 2018-01-30T14:00:09+0100
   Von: "Rainer" <rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
   An: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Looks like I don't have that book (Brown 1554[6]) - g
   Rainer
   On 30.01.2018 11:58, Joachim Lüdtke wrote:
   > Dear Rainer,
   >
   > De Rippe's intavolation of Gentian's "Dieu qui conduit" ("L'Eccho").
   >
   > Best
   >
   > Joachim
   >
   >
   > -Original-Nachricht-
   > Betreff: [LUTE] tone colour echo
   > Datum: 2018-01-30T11:45:30+0100
   > Von: "Rainer" <rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
   > An: "Lute net" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   >
   > Dear lute netters,
   >
   > I may have posted this may years ago already - I don't remember.
   >
   > In the duet treble "Sellinger's Round" (Marsh, p. 182 and Dd.3.18, f.
   5r) there is a tone colour echo in bars 57 and 58 - the same notes on
   different courses.
   >
   > I wonder if anybody knows of any other such echo in Renaissance lute
   music.
   >
   > By the way, it is tempting to play a similar echo on bars 53 and 54.
   >
   > Rainer
   >
   >
   >
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   >
   >
   >
   >
   

References

   1. http://www.vfll.de/
   2. http://www.lektoren.de/profil/joachim-luedtke
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: tone colour echo

[Rainer]

Wayne,

please forgive me :)

Rainer

On 30.01.2018 15:51, wbc wrote:


You can see this as tablature at 
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/tab-serv/tablature.cgi?drafts/rainer.pdf 
<http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/tab-serv/tablature.cgi?drafts/rainer.pdf> if 
you can stand the ugly font.

  Wayne


Begin forwarded message:

From: Rainer <rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: tone colour echo
Date: January 30, 2018 at 8:53:19 AM EST
To: Lute net <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>

You seem to have completely misunderstood me.
I mean the same notes in the same octave.

Attachments are not allowed here. Therefore I am sending the tab source for the 
version from Marsh.
Save it and open with Fronimo or compile with tab.

Note: the lute font looks ugly but I cannot send the font I created for tab.

Rainer

%-

$flagstyle=standard
%$lutefont=holb
-highlightparen
-R9
-c

%-K
%$sys-skip=0.21

% 
% System 1
% 
6!
b!
% =
% Bar 1
% =
1 d
2 d
2. d
3a
2c
b
% =
% Bar 2
% =
1d
2d
2.d
3f
2h
b
% =
% Bar 3
% =
1f
2d
#3f
xd
xc
xa
2c
b
% =
% Bar 4
% =
1d
2d
2.d
3c
2a
b
% =
% Bar 5
% =
2 d
#3 a
x b
2 d
#3 a
x b
x d
x b
x a
x  d
b

b
% =
% Bar 6
% =
#3  b
x  a
x  b
x  d
2 a
#3 a
x b
x d
xa
xc
xd
b
% =
% Bar 7
% =
#3c
xa
xc
xd
2f
#3 d
x c
x d
xa
2c
b
% =
% Bar 8
% =
2d
#3c
xa
x d
x b
#3 a
x  d
x  b
x  a
2  b
b
% =
% Bar 9
% =
#2d
xf
xh
#2f
xh
xd
b

b
% ==
% Bar 10
% ==
#2c
xd
xf
#2c
xf
xd
b
% ==
% Bar 11
% ==
#2c
xd
xf
#2 d
xd
xc
b
% ==
% Bar 12
% ==
1a
2a
1a
2c
b
% ==
% Bar 13
% ==
#2d
xf
xd
#2c
xd
xf
b
% ==
% Bar 14
% ==
#2h
xf
xi
#2h
xf
xd
b

b
% ==
% Bar 15
% ==
#2c
xa
x d
#3 f
x d
x c
x a
2 c
b
% ==
% Bar 16
% ==
1 d
2 d
2. d
3a
2c
b
% ==
% Bar 17
% ==
#3d
xc
xd
xf
2d
#3c
xa
xc
xd
2c
b
% ==
% Bar 18
% ==
#3h
xf
xh
xi
2h
#3f
xe
xf
xh
2f
b

b
% ==
% Bar 19
% ==
#3 f
x e
x f
x h
2 f
#3 c
x a
x c
x d
2 c
b
% ==
% Bar 20
% ==
#3 d
xa
xc
xd
2f
#3f
xd
xc
xa
2 d
bb
% ==
% Bar 21
% ==
#3   a
x   c
x  a
x  b
2  d
#3  d
x  b
x  a
x   c
2   a
b
% ==
% Bar 22
% ==
#3  b
x  d
x a
x b
2 d
#3 d
x b
x a
x  d
2  b
b

b
% ==
% Bar 23
% ==
#3  d
x  b
x  d
x a
2 b
#3 b
x a
x  d
x  b
2  d
b
% ==
% Bar 24
% ==
2 a
#3 b
x d
xa
xc
2d
#3f
xd
xc
xa
b
% ==
% Bar 25
% ==
2 d
#3 a
x b
2 d
#3  d
x a
x b
x d
xa
xc
b
% ==
% Bar 26
% ==
2d
#3a
xc
2d
#3a
xc
xd
xf
2h
b

b
% ==
% Bar 27
% ==
#3f
x i
xf
xh
2i
#3i
xh
xf
x i
2 h
b
% ==
% Bar 28
% ==
#3h
x l
xh
xi
2l
#3l
xi
xh
x l
2 i
b
% ==
% Bar 29
% ==
#3h
xi
#2l
xl
#2l
xh
x i
b
% ==
% Bar 30
% ==
#3c
xd
#2f
xf
#2f
xc
x d
b

b
% ==
% Bar 31
% ==
#3f
xd
xc
xa
x d
xa
#3c
xa
xd
xc
xa
x d
b
% ==
% Bar 32
% ==
2.a
3c
2a
#3  d
x a
x c
x d
xa
xc
b
% ==
% Bar 33
% ==
2d
#3a
xc
2d
2c
#3 d
xa
2c
b
% ==
% Bar 34
% ==
2h
#3 i
xf
2h
2f
#3c
xd
2f
b

b
% ==
% Bar 35
% ==
2 f
#3 c
x d
2 f
2 c
#3  d
x a
2 c
b
% ==
% Bar 36
% ==
#3 d
xa
xc
xd
2f
#3i
xh
xf
x i
2 h
b
% ==
% Bar 37
% ==
2d
#3 d
xa
xc
xd
2c
#3a
xc
xd
xf
b
% ==
% Bar 38
% ==
2h
#3 h
x i
xf
xh
2f
#3a
xc
xd
xf
b

b
% ==
% Bar 39
% ==
#3a
xc
xd
xc
xa
x d
#3 f
x d
x c
x a
2 c
b
% ==
% Bar 40
% ==
2 d
#3  d
x a
x b
x a
#3  d
x  b
x  a
x   c
2   a
bb
% ==
% Bar 41
% ==
2. d
3 b
2 d
#2 a
x b
x d
b
% ==
% Bar 42
% ==
2 a
#3 b
x d
xa
xc
#3d
xc
xd
xf
2h
b

b
% ==
% Bar 43
% ==
#3f
xd
xc
xa
2 d
#3i
xh
xf
x i
2 h
b
% ==
% Bar 44
% ==
#3 i
x l
xh
xi
2l
#3 b
x d
xa
xc
2d
b
% ==
% Bar 45
% ==
#2c
xd
xf
#2 d
xd
xc
b
% ==
% Bar 46
% ==
2d
#3a
xc
xd
xf
#3h
xf
xd
xc
2d
b
% ==
% Bar 47
% ==
2c
#3 d
xa
xc
xd
#3f
xd
xc
xa
2c
b

b
% ==
% Bar 48
% ==
2d
#3c
xa
x d
x b
#3 a
x  d
x  b
x  a
2  b
b
% ==
% Bar 49
% ==
#3d
xc
xd
xf
2h
#2h
xi
xl
b
% ==
% Bar 50
% ==
#3 d
x c
x d
xa
2c
#2c
xd
xf
b
% ==
% Bar 51
% ==
2f
#3c
xd
2f
#3f
xd
xc
xa
2 d
b

b
% ==
% Bar 52
% ==
2.a
3c
2a
#3  d
x a
x c
x d
xa
xc
b
% ==
% Bar 53
% ==
#2d
xa
xd
#2c
x d
xf
b
% ==
% Bar 54
% ==
#2d
xa
xd
#2c
x d
xc
b
% ==
% Bar 55
% ==
#3a
xc
xd
xc
xa
x d
#3 f
x d
x c
x a
2 c
b

b
% ==
% Bar 56
% ==
#3 d
xa
xc
xd
xf
xh
#3i
xh
xf
x i
2 h
b
% ==
% Bar 57
% ==
2 i
#3 f
x h
2 i
2 h
#3  i
x f
2 h
b
% ==
% Bar 58
% ==
2d
#3a
xc
2d
2c
#3 d
xa
2c
b
% ==
% Bar 59
% ==
#3f
xd
xc
xa
xd
xc
#3a
x d
x c
x a
x d
x c
b
% ==
% Bar 60
% ==
#2 d
xl
xk
1.l  a
b
B

{/}
b.
% =
% Bar 1
% =
1 daa
2  a
2. daa
3  b
2  d
b
% =
% Bar 2
% =
1 ab  d
2 a
2. ab  d
3 b
2 d
b
% =
% Bar 3
% =
1 dda
2 d
2. daa
3  b
2  d
b
% =
% Bar 4
% =
1. aba d
1. aba d
b

b
% =
% Bar 5
% =
1 daa
2  a
2. daa
3  b
2  d
b
% =
% Bar 6
% =
1 ab  d
2 a
2. ab  d
3 b
2 d
b
% =
% B

[LUTE] Re: tone colour echo

[Rainer]

Yes, it's in 1562[10] and - yes - there are tone colour echoes.

This is remarkable since it requires to go up to "l" (at least) on the second 
course or lower courses.

Very interesting.

Rainer  



On 30.01.2018 15:46, Joachim Lüdtke wrote:

Nor do I, but Brown records two later editions. It may be interesting (at least 
for someone who is fascinated by the music and the history of its editions) to 
compare the texts. Years ago I copied the piece from the CNRS edition, which 
should be based on the earliest known publication, that is on 1554[6]. If I 
wasn't out of my mind while copying the music, there are several measures where 
you would have to pick the final note in cadences from the octave string of the 
third course. Later I saw the piece in one of the later prints, and all this 
fine play with octave strings and resulting sonorities, which to me seemed so 
perfectly matched the way De Rippe intavolated the echos of the chanson, was 
edited out ... I have however never investigated much time into this, and it 
may even be that the piece is full of errors in 1554[6] or the copy the CNRS 
editors where working from, and that all ideas of mine about fine play, octave 
strings and sonorities are nonsense ...

Best

Joachim


Lektorat & Korrektorat
Dr. Joachim Lüdtke
Blumenstraße 20
D-90762 Fürth
Tel.: 0911 / 976 45 20
Mail: jo.lued...@t-online.de
  
Mitglied im Verband der freien Lektorinnen und Lektoren

www.vfll.de
www.lektoren.de/profil/joachim-luedtke
  



-Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: tone colour echo
Datum: 2018-01-30T14:00:09+0100
Von: "Rainer" <rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
An: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>

Looks like I don't have that book (Brown 1554[6]) - g

Rainer

On 30.01.2018 11:58, Joachim Lüdtke wrote:

Dear Rainer,

De Rippe's intavolation of Gentian's "Dieu qui conduit" ("L'Eccho").

Best

Joachim


-Original-Nachricht-
Betreff: [LUTE] tone colour echo
Datum: 2018-01-30T11:45:30+0100
Von: "Rainer" <rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
An: "Lute net" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>

Dear lute netters,

I may have posted this may years ago already - I don't remember.

In the duet treble "Sellinger's Round" (Marsh, p. 182 and Dd.3.18, f. 5r) there 
is a tone colour echo in bars 57 and 58 - the same notes on different courses.

I wonder if anybody knows of any other such echo in Renaissance lute music.

By the way, it is tempting to play a similar echo on bars 53 and 54.

Rainer



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html









[LUTE] Re: tone colour echo

[wbc]

You can see this as tablature at 
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/tab-serv/tablature.cgi?drafts/rainer.pdf 
<http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/tab-serv/tablature.cgi?drafts/rainer.pdf> if 
you can stand the ugly font.

 Wayne

> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: Rainer <rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: tone colour echo
> Date: January 30, 2018 at 8:53:19 AM EST
> To: Lute net <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> 
> You seem to have completely misunderstood me.
> I mean the same notes in the same octave.
> 
> Attachments are not allowed here. Therefore I am sending the tab source for 
> the version from Marsh.
> Save it and open with Fronimo or compile with tab.
> 
> Note: the lute font looks ugly but I cannot send the font I created for tab.
> 
> Rainer
> 
> %-
> 
> $flagstyle=standard
> %$lutefont=holb
> -highlightparen
> -R9
> -c
> 
> %-K
> %$sys-skip=0.21
> 
> % 
> % System 1
> % 
> 6!
> b!
> % =
> % Bar 1
> % =
> 1 d
> 2 d
> 2. d
> 3a
> 2c
> b
> % =
> % Bar 2
> % =
> 1d
> 2d
> 2.d
> 3f
> 2h
> b
> % =
> % Bar 3
> % =
> 1f
> 2d
> #3f
> xd
> xc
> xa
> 2c
> b
> % =
> % Bar 4
> % =
> 1d
> 2d
> 2.d
> 3c
> 2a
> b
> % =
> % Bar 5
> % =
> 2 d
> #3 a
> x b
> 2 d
> #3 a
> x b
> x d
> x b
> x a
> x  d
> b
> 
> b
> % =
> % Bar 6
> % =
> #3  b
> x  a
> x  b
> x  d
> 2 a
> #3 a
> x b
> x d
> xa
> xc
> xd
> b
> % =
> % Bar 7
> % =
> #3c
> xa
> xc
> xd
> 2f
> #3 d
> x c
> x d
> xa
> 2c
> b
> % =
> % Bar 8
> % =
> 2d
> #3c
> xa
> x d
> x b
> #3 a
> x  d
> x  b
> x  a
> 2  b
> b
> % =
> % Bar 9
> % =
> #2d
> xf
> xh
> #2f
> xh
> xd
> b
> 
> b
> % ==
> % Bar 10
> % ==
> #2c
> xd
> xf
> #2c
> xf
> xd
> b
> % ==
> % Bar 11
> % ==
> #2c
> xd
> xf
> #2 d
> xd
> xc
> b
> % ==
> % Bar 12
> % ==
> 1a
> 2a
> 1a
> 2c
> b
> % ==
> % Bar 13
> % ==
> #2d
> xf
> xd
> #2c
> xd
> xf
> b
> % ==
> % Bar 14
> % ==
> #2h
> xf
> xi
> #2h
> xf
> xd
> b
> 
> b
> % ==
> % Bar 15
> % ==
> #2c
> xa
> x d
> #3 f
> x d
> x c
> x a
> 2 c
> b
> % ==
> % Bar 16
> % ==
> 1 d
> 2 d
> 2. d
> 3a
> 2c
> b
> % ==
> % Bar 17
> % ==
> #3d
> xc
> xd
> xf
> 2d
> #3c
> xa
> xc
> xd
> 2c
> b
> % ==
> % Bar 18
> % ==
> #3h
> xf
> xh
> xi
> 2h
> #3f
> xe
> xf
> xh
> 2f
> b
> 
> b
> % ==
> % Bar 19
> % ==
> #3 f
> x e
> x f
> x h
> 2 f
> #3 c
> x a
> x c
> x d
> 2 c
> b
> % ==
> % Bar 20
> % ==
> #3 d
> xa
> xc
> xd
> 2f
> #3f
> xd
> xc
> xa
> 2 d
> bb
> % ==
> % Bar 21
> % ==
> #3   a
> x   c
> x  a
> x  b
> 2  d
> #3  d
> x  b
> x  a
> x   c
> 2   a
> b
> % ==
> % Bar 22
> % ==
> #3  b
> x  d
> x a
> x b
> 2 d
> #3 d
> x b
> x a
> x  d
> 2  b
> b
> 
> b
> % ==
> % Bar 23
> % ==
> #3  d
> x  b
> x  d
> x a
> 2 b
> #3 b
> x a
> x  d
> x  b
> 2  d
> b
> % ==
> % Bar 24
> % ==
> 2 a
> #3 b
> x d
> xa
> xc
> 2d
> #3f
> xd
> xc
> xa
> b
> % ==
> % Bar 25
> % ==
> 2 d
> #3 a
> x b
> 2 d
> #3  d
> x a
> x b
> x d
> xa
> xc
> b
> % ==
> % Bar 26
> % ==
> 2d
> #3a
> xc
> 2d
> #3a
> xc
> xd
> xf
> 2h
> b
> 
> b
> % ==
> % Bar 27
> % ==
> #3f
> x i
> xf
> xh
> 2i
> #3i
> xh
> xf
> x i
> 2 h
> b
> % ==
> % Bar 28
> % ==
> #3h
> x l
> xh
> xi
> 2l
> #3l
> xi
> xh
> x l
> 2 i
> b
> % ==
> % Bar 29
> % ==
> #3h
> xi
> #2l
> xl
> #2l
> xh
> x i
> b
> % ==
> % Bar 30
> % ==
> #3c
> xd
> #2f
> xf
> #2f
> xc
> x d
> b
> 
> b
> % ==
> % Bar 31
> % ==
> #3f
> xd
> xc
> xa
> x d
> xa
> #3c
> xa
> xd
> xc
> xa
> x d
> b
> % ==
> % Bar 32
> % ==
> 2.a
> 3c
> 2a
> 

[LUTE] Re: tone colour echo

[Joachim Lüdtke]

Nor do I, but Brown records two later editions. It may be interesting (at least 
for someone who is fascinated by the music and the history of its editions) to 
compare the texts. Years ago I copied the piece from the CNRS edition, which 
should be based on the earliest known publication, that is on 1554[6]. If I 
wasn't out of my mind while copying the music, there are several measures where 
you would have to pick the final note in cadences from the octave string of the 
third course. Later I saw the piece in one of the later prints, and all this 
fine play with octave strings and resulting sonorities, which to me seemed so 
perfectly matched the way De Rippe intavolated the echos of the chanson, was 
edited out ... I have however never investigated much time into this, and it 
may even be that the piece is full of errors in 1554[6] or the copy the CNRS 
editors where working from, and that all ideas of mine about fine play, octave 
strings and sonorities are nonsense ...

Best

Joachim


Lektorat & Korrektorat
Dr. Joachim Lüdtke
Blumenstraße 20
D-90762 Fürth
Tel.: 0911 / 976 45 20
Mail: jo.lued...@t-online.de
 
Mitglied im Verband der freien Lektorinnen und Lektoren
www.vfll.de
www.lektoren.de/profil/joachim-luedtke
 


-Original-Nachricht-
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: tone colour echo
Datum: 2018-01-30T14:00:09+0100
Von: "Rainer" <rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
An: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>

Looks like I don't have that book (Brown 1554[6]) - g

Rainer

On 30.01.2018 11:58, Joachim Lüdtke wrote:
> Dear Rainer,
> 
> De Rippe's intavolation of Gentian's "Dieu qui conduit" ("L'Eccho").
> 
> Best
> 
> Joachim
> 
> 
> -Original-Nachricht-
> Betreff: [LUTE] tone colour echo
> Datum: 2018-01-30T11:45:30+0100
> Von: "Rainer" <rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
> An: "Lute net" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> 
> Dear lute netters,
> 
> I may have posted this may years ago already - I don't remember.
> 
> In the duet treble "Sellinger's Round" (Marsh, p. 182 and Dd.3.18, f. 5r) 
> there is a tone colour echo in bars 57 and 58 - the same notes on different 
> courses.
> 
> I wonder if anybody knows of any other such echo in Renaissance lute music.
> 
> By the way, it is tempting to play a similar echo on bars 53 and 54.
> 
> Rainer
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
> 
> 
> 




[LUTE] Re: tone colour echo

[Tristan von Neumann]

Sorry Rainer, can't open in the demo version, and I'm on Linux...

Can you describe what you mean? The pieces I mentioned have the same 
notes but fretted differently in the echo. I thought you meant that.



Am 30.01.2018 um 14:53 schrieb Rainer:

$flagstyle=standard
%$lutefont=holb
-highlightparen
-R9
-c

%-K
%$sys-skip=0.21

% 
% System 1
% 
6!
b!
% =
% Bar 1
% =
1 d
2 d
2. d
3a
2c
b
% =
% Bar 2
% =
1d
2d
2.d
3f
2h
b
% =
% Bar 3
% =
1f
2d
#3f
xd
xc
xa
2c
b
% =
% Bar 4
% =
1d
2d
2.d
3c
2a
b
% =
% Bar 5
% =
2 d
#3 a
x b
2 d
#3 a
x b
x d
x b
x a
x  d
b

b
% =
% Bar 6
% =
#3  b
x  a
x  b
x  d
2 a
#3 a
x b
x d
xa
xc
xd
b
% =
% Bar 7
% =
#3c
xa
xc
xd
2f
#3 d
x c
x d
xa
2c
b
% =
% Bar 8
% =
2d
#3c
xa
x d
x b
#3 a
x  d
x  b
x  a
2  b
b
% =
% Bar 9
% =
#2d
xf
xh
#2f
xh
xd
b

b
% ==
% Bar 10
% ==
#2c
xd
xf
#2c
xf
xd
b
% ==
% Bar 11
% ==
#2c
xd
xf
#2 d
xd
xc
b
% ==
% Bar 12
% ==
1a
2a
1a
2c
b
% ==
% Bar 13
% ==
#2d
xf
xd
#2c
xd
xf
b
% ==
% Bar 14
% ==
#2h
xf
xi
#2h
xf
xd
b

b
% ==
% Bar 15
% ==
#2c
xa
x d
#3 f
x d
x c
x a
2 c
b
% ==
% Bar 16
% ==
1 d
2 d
2. d
3a
2c
b
% ==
% Bar 17
% ==
#3d
xc
xd
xf
2d
#3c
xa
xc
xd
2c
b
% ==
% Bar 18
% ==
#3h
xf
xh
xi
2h
#3f
xe
xf
xh
2f
b

b
% ==
% Bar 19
% ==
#3 f
x e
x f
x h
2 f
#3 c
x a
x c
x d
2 c
b
% ==
% Bar 20
% ==
#3 d
xa
xc
xd
2f
#3f
xd
xc
xa
2 d
bb
% ==
% Bar 21
% ==
#3   a
x   c
x  a
x  b
2  d
#3  d
x  b
x  a
x   c
2   a
b
% ==
% Bar 22
% ==
#3  b
x  d
x a
x b
2 d
#3 d
x b
x a
x  d
2  b
b

b
% ==
% Bar 23
% ==
#3  d
x  b
x  d
x a
2 b
#3 b
x a
x  d
x  b
2  d
b
% ==
% Bar 24
% ==
2 a
#3 b
x d
xa
xc
2d
#3f
xd
xc
xa
b
% ==
% Bar 25
% ==
2 d
#3 a
x b
2 d
#3  d
x a
x b
x d
xa
xc
b
% ==
% Bar 26
% ==
2d
#3a
xc
2d
#3a
xc
xd
xf
2h
b

b
% ==
% Bar 27
% ==
#3f
x i
xf
xh
2i
#3i
xh
xf
x i
2 h
b
% ==
% Bar 28
% ==
#3h
x l
xh
xi
2l
#3l
xi
xh
x l
2 i
b
% ==
% Bar 29
% ==
#3h
xi
#2l
xl
#2l
xh
x i
b
% ==
% Bar 30
% ==
#3c
xd
#2f
xf
#2f
xc
x d
b

b
% ==
% Bar 31
% ==
#3f
xd
xc
xa
x d
xa
#3c
xa
xd
xc
xa
x d
b
% ==
% Bar 32
% ==
2.a
3c
2a
#3  d
x a
x c
x d
xa
xc
b
% ==
% Bar 33
% ==
2d
#3a
xc
2d
2c
#3 d
xa
2c
b
% ==
% Bar 34
% ==
2h
#3 i
xf
2h
2f
#3c
xd
2f
b

b
% ==
% Bar 35
% ==
2 f
#3 c
x d
2 f
2 c
#3  d
x a
2 c
b
% ==
% Bar 36
% ==
#3 d
xa
xc
xd
2f
#3i
xh
xf
x i
2 h
b
% ==
% Bar 37
% ==
2d
#3 d
xa
xc
xd
2c
#3a
xc
xd
xf
b
% ==
% Bar 38
% ==
2h
#3 h
x i
xf
xh
2f
#3a
xc
xd
xf
b

b
% ==
% Bar 39
% ==
#3a
xc
xd
xc
xa
x d
#3 f
x d
x c
x a
2 c
b
% ==
% Bar 40
% ==
2 d
#3  d
x a
x b
x a
#3  d
x  b
x  a
x   c
2   a
bb
% ==
% Bar 41
% ==
2. d
3 b
2 d
#2 a
x b
x d
b
% ==
% Bar 42
% ==
2 a
#3 b
x d
xa
xc
#3d
xc
xd
xf
2h
b

b
% ==
% Bar 43
% ==
#3f
xd
xc
xa
2 d
#3i
xh
xf
x i
2 h
b
% ==
% Bar 44
% ==
#3 i
x l
xh
xi
2l
#3 b
x d
xa
xc
2d
b
% ==
% Bar 45
% ==
#2c
xd
xf
#2 d
xd
xc
b
% ==
% Bar 46
% ==
2d
#3a
xc
xd
xf
#3h
xf
xd
xc
2d
b
% ==
% Bar 47
% ==
2c
#3 d
xa
xc
xd
#3f
xd
xc
xa
2c
b

b
% ==
% Bar 48
% ==
2d
#3c
xa
x d
x b
#3 a
x  d
x  b
x  a
2  b
b
% ==
% Bar 49
% ==
#3d
xc
xd
xf
2h
#2h
xi
xl
b
% ==
% Bar 50
% ==
#3 d
x c
x d
xa
2c
#2c
xd
xf
b
% ==
% Bar 51
% ==
2f
#3c
xd
2f
#3f
xd
xc
xa
2 d
b

b
% ==
% Bar 52
% ==
2.a
3c
2a
#3  d
x a
x c
x d
xa
xc
b
% ==
% Bar 53
% ==
#2d
xa
xd
#2c
x d
xf
b
% ==
% Bar 54
% ==
#2d
xa
xd
#2c
x d
xc
b
% ==
% Bar 55
% ==
#3a
xc
xd
xc
xa
x d
#3 f
x d
x c
x a
2 c
b

b
% ==
% Bar 56
% ==
#3 d
xa
xc
xd
xf
xh
#3i
xh
xf
x i
2 h
b
% ==
% Bar 57
% ==
2 i
#3 f
x h
2 i
2 h
#3  i
x f
2 h
b
% ==
% Bar 58
% ==
2d
#3a
xc
2d
2c
#3 d
xa
2c
b
% ==
% Bar 59
% ==
#3f
xd
xc
xa
xd
xc
#3a
x d
x c
x a
x d
x c
b
% ==
% Bar 60
% ==
#2 d
xl
xk
1.l  a
b
B

{/}
b.
% =
% Bar 1
% =
1 daa
2  a
2. daa
3  b
2  d
b
% =
% Bar 2
% =
1 ab  d
2 a
2. ab  d
3 b
2 d
b
% =
% Bar 3
% =
1 dda
2 d
2. daa
3  b
2  d
b
% =
% Bar 4
% =
1. aba d
1. aba d
b

b
% =
% Bar 5
% =
1 daa
2  a
2. daa
3  b
2  d
b
% =
% Bar 6
% =
1 ab  d
2 a
2. ab  d
3 b
2 d
b
% =
% Bar 7
% =
1 dda
2 d
2. daa
3  b
2  d
b
% =
% Bar 8
% =
1. aba d
1. aba d
b

b
% =
% Bar 9
% =
1 aba d
2 ab
1 dba d
2 db
b
% ==
% Bar 10
% ==
1 dda
2 d
1 daa
2 da
b
% ==
% Bar 11
% ==
1 dda
2 d
1 daa
2 da
b
% ==
% Bar 12
% ==
1. cdca
2. cdca
3 a
2 c
b

b
% ==
% Bar 13
% ==
1 dba d
2 dba
1 dda
2 dda
b
% ==
% Bar 14
% ==
1 dba d
2 dba
1 dda
2 dda
b
% ==
% Bar 15
% ==
1 cdca
2 cdc
1 cdca
2 cdc
b
% ==
% Bar 16
% ==
1 dda
2 daa
2. daa
3  b
2  d
b

b
% ==
% Bar 17
% ==
1 dba d
2 dba
1 dda
2 dda
b
% ==
% Bar 18
% ==
1 dba d
2 dba
1 dda
2 dda
b
% 

[LUTE] Re: tone colour echo

[Rainer]

You seem to have completely misunderstood me.
I mean the same notes in the same octave.

Attachments are not allowed here. Therefore I am sending the tab source for the 
version from Marsh.
Save it and open with Fronimo or compile with tab.

Note: the lute font looks ugly but I cannot send the font I created for tab.

Rainer

%-

$flagstyle=standard
%$lutefont=holb
-highlightparen
-R9
-c

%-K
%$sys-skip=0.21

% 
% System 1
% 
6!
b!
% =
% Bar 1
% =
1 d
2 d
2. d
3a
2c
b
% =
% Bar 2
% =
1d
2d
2.d
3f
2h
b
% =
% Bar 3
% =
1f
2d
#3f
xd
xc
xa
2c
b
% =
% Bar 4
% =
1d
2d
2.d
3c
2a
b
% =
% Bar 5
% =
2 d
#3 a
x b
2 d
#3 a
x b
x d
x b
x a
x  d
b

b
% =
% Bar 6
% =
#3  b
x  a
x  b
x  d
2 a
#3 a
x b
x d
xa
xc
xd
b
% =
% Bar 7
% =
#3c
xa
xc
xd
2f
#3 d
x c
x d
xa
2c
b
% =
% Bar 8
% =
2d
#3c
xa
x d
x b
#3 a
x  d
x  b
x  a
2  b
b
% =
% Bar 9
% =
#2d
xf
xh
#2f
xh
xd
b

b
% ==
% Bar 10
% ==
#2c
xd
xf
#2c
xf
xd
b
% ==
% Bar 11
% ==
#2c
xd
xf
#2 d
xd
xc
b
% ==
% Bar 12
% ==
1a
2a
1a
2c
b
% ==
% Bar 13
% ==
#2d
xf
xd
#2c
xd
xf
b
% ==
% Bar 14
% ==
#2h
xf
xi
#2h
xf
xd
b

b
% ==
% Bar 15
% ==
#2c
xa
x d
#3 f
x d
x c
x a
2 c
b
% ==
% Bar 16
% ==
1 d
2 d
2. d
3a
2c
b
% ==
% Bar 17
% ==
#3d
xc
xd
xf
2d
#3c
xa
xc
xd
2c
b
% ==
% Bar 18
% ==
#3h
xf
xh
xi
2h
#3f
xe
xf
xh
2f
b

b
% ==
% Bar 19
% ==
#3 f
x e
x f
x h
2 f
#3 c
x a
x c
x d
2 c
b
% ==
% Bar 20
% ==
#3 d
xa
xc
xd
2f
#3f
xd
xc
xa
2 d
bb
% ==
% Bar 21
% ==
#3   a
x   c
x  a
x  b
2  d
#3  d
x  b
x  a
x   c
2   a
b
% ==
% Bar 22
% ==
#3  b
x  d
x a
x b
2 d
#3 d
x b
x a
x  d
2  b
b

b
% ==
% Bar 23
% ==
#3  d
x  b
x  d
x a
2 b
#3 b
x a
x  d
x  b
2  d
b
% ==
% Bar 24
% ==
2 a
#3 b
x d
xa
xc
2d
#3f
xd
xc
xa
b
% ==
% Bar 25
% ==
2 d
#3 a
x b
2 d
#3  d
x a
x b
x d
xa
xc
b
% ==
% Bar 26
% ==
2d
#3a
xc
2d
#3a
xc
xd
xf
2h
b

b
% ==
% Bar 27
% ==
#3f
x i
xf
xh
2i
#3i
xh
xf
x i
2 h
b
% ==
% Bar 28
% ==
#3h
x l
xh
xi
2l
#3l
xi
xh
x l
2 i
b
% ==
% Bar 29
% ==
#3h
xi
#2l
xl
#2l
xh
x i
b
% ==
% Bar 30
% ==
#3c
xd
#2f
xf
#2f
xc
x d
b

b
% ==
% Bar 31
% ==
#3f
xd
xc
xa
x d
xa
#3c
xa
xd
xc
xa
x d
b
% ==
% Bar 32
% ==
2.a
3c
2a
#3  d
x a
x c
x d
xa
xc
b
% ==
% Bar 33
% ==
2d
#3a
xc
2d
2c
#3 d
xa
2c
b
% ==
% Bar 34
% ==
2h
#3 i
xf
2h
2f
#3c
xd
2f
b

b
% ==
% Bar 35
% ==
2 f
#3 c
x d
2 f
2 c
#3  d
x a
2 c
b
% ==
% Bar 36
% ==
#3 d
xa
xc
xd
2f
#3i
xh
xf
x i
2 h
b
% ==
% Bar 37
% ==
2d
#3 d
xa
xc
xd
2c
#3a
xc
xd
xf
b
% ==
% Bar 38
% ==
2h
#3 h
x i
xf
xh
2f
#3a
xc
xd
xf
b

b
% ==
% Bar 39
% ==
#3a
xc
xd
xc
xa
x d
#3 f
x d
x c
x a
2 c
b
% ==
% Bar 40
% ==
2 d
#3  d
x a
x b
x a
#3  d
x  b
x  a
x   c
2   a
bb
% ==
% Bar 41
% ==
2. d
3 b
2 d
#2 a
x b
x d
b
% ==
% Bar 42
% ==
2 a
#3 b
x d
xa
xc
#3d
xc
xd
xf
2h
b

b
% ==
% Bar 43
% ==
#3f
xd
xc
xa
2 d
#3i
xh
xf
x i
2 h
b
% ==
% Bar 44
% ==
#3 i
x l
xh
xi
2l
#3 b
x d
xa
xc
2d
b
% ==
% Bar 45
% ==
#2c
xd
xf
#2 d
xd
xc
b
% ==
% Bar 46
% ==
2d
#3a
xc
xd
xf
#3h
xf
xd
xc
2d
b
% ==
% Bar 47
% ==
2c
#3 d
xa
xc
xd
#3f
xd
xc
xa
2c
b

b
% ==
% Bar 48
% ==
2d
#3c
xa
x d
x b
#3 a
x  d
x  b
x  a
2  b
b
% ==
% Bar 49
% ==
#3d
xc
xd
xf
2h
#2h
xi
xl
b
% ==
% Bar 50
% ==
#3 d
x c
x d
xa
2c
#2c
xd
xf
b
% ==
% Bar 51
% ==
2f
#3c
xd
2f
#3f
xd
xc
xa
2 d
b

b
% ==
% Bar 52
% ==
2.a
3c
2a
#3  d
x a
x c
x d
xa
xc
b
% ==
% Bar 53
% ==
#2d
xa
xd
#2c
x d
xf
b
% ==
% Bar 54
% ==
#2d
xa
xd
#2c
x d
xc
b
% ==
% Bar 55
% ==
#3a
xc
xd
xc
xa
x d
#3 f
x d
x c
x a
2 c
b

b
% ==
% Bar 56
% ==
#3 d
xa
xc
xd
xf
xh
#3i
xh
xf
x i
2 h
b
% ==
% Bar 57
% ==
2 i
#3 f
x h
2 i
2 h
#3  i
x f
2 h
b
% ==
% Bar 58
% ==
2d
#3a
xc
2d
2c
#3 d
xa
2c
b
% ==
% Bar 59
% ==
#3f
xd
xc
xa
xd
xc
#3a
x d
x c
x a
x d
x c
b
% ==
% Bar 60
% ==
#2 d
xl
xk
1.l  a
b
B

{/}
b.
% =
% Bar 1
% =
1 daa
2  a
2. daa
3  b
2  d
b
% =
% Bar 2
% =
1 ab  d
2 a
2. ab  d
3 b
2 d
b
% =
% Bar 3
% =
1 dda
2 d
2. daa
3  b
2  d
b
% =
% Bar 4
% =
1. aba d
1. aba d
b

b
% =
% Bar 5
% =
1 daa
2  a
2. daa
3  b
2  d
b
% =
% Bar 6
% =
1 ab  d
2 a
2. ab  d
3 b
2 d
b
% =
% Bar 7
% =
1 dda
2 d
2. daa
3  b
2  d
b
% =
% Bar 8
% =
1. aba d
1. aba d
b

b
% =
% Bar 9
% =
1 aba d
2 ab
1 dba d
2 db
b
% ==
% Bar 10
% ==
1 dda
2 d
1 daa
2 da
b
% ==
% Bar 11
% ==
1 dda
2 d
1 daa
2 da
b
% ==
% Bar 12
% ==
1. cdca
2. cdca
3 a
2 c
b

b
% ==
% Bar 13
% ==
1 dba d
2 dba
1 dda
2 dda
b
% ==
% Bar 14
% ==
1 dba d
2 dba
1 dda
2 dda
b
% ==
% Bar 15
% ==
1 cdca
2 cdc
1 cdca
2 cdc
b
% ==
% Bar 16
% ==
1 dda
2 daa
2. 

[LUTE] Re: tone colour echo

[Tristan von Neumann]

If what you describe is what I think it is, then I love tone color echoes!

Check out:

Milán Fantasia 35 - m. 125-130

and from Siena folio 21
m. 40-44


I have seen this in many other pieces, when I find some I'll post it here.


Am 30.01.2018 um 11:42 schrieb Rainer:

Dear lute netters,

I may have posted this may years ago already - I don't remember.

In the duet treble "Sellinger's Round" (Marsh, p. 182 and Dd.3.18, f. 
5r) there is a tone colour echo in bars 57 and 58 - the same notes on 
different courses.


I wonder if anybody knows of any other such echo in Renaissance lute music.

By the way, it is tempting to play a similar echo on bars 53 and 54.

Rainer



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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: tone colour echo

[Rainer]

Looks like I don't have that book (Brown 1554[6]) - g

Rainer

On 30.01.2018 11:58, Joachim Lüdtke wrote:

Dear Rainer,

De Rippe's intavolation of Gentian's "Dieu qui conduit" ("L'Eccho").

Best

Joachim


-Original-Nachricht-
Betreff: [LUTE] tone colour echo
Datum: 2018-01-30T11:45:30+0100
Von: "Rainer" 
An: "Lute net" 

Dear lute netters,

I may have posted this may years ago already - I don't remember.

In the duet treble "Sellinger's Round" (Marsh, p. 182 and Dd.3.18, f. 5r) there 
is a tone colour echo in bars 57 and 58 - the same notes on different courses.

I wonder if anybody knows of any other such echo in Renaissance lute music.

By the way, it is tempting to play a similar echo on bars 53 and 54.

Rainer



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


[LUTE] Re: tone colour echo

[Joachim Lüdtke]

Dear Rainer,

De Rippe's intavolation of Gentian's "Dieu qui conduit" ("L'Eccho").

Best

Joachim


-Original-Nachricht-
Betreff: [LUTE] tone colour echo
Datum: 2018-01-30T11:45:30+0100
Von: "Rainer" 
An: "Lute net" 

Dear lute netters,

I may have posted this may years ago already - I don't remember.

In the duet treble "Sellinger's Round" (Marsh, p. 182 and Dd.3.18, f. 5r) there 
is a tone colour echo in bars 57 and 58 - the same notes on different courses.

I wonder if anybody knows of any other such echo in Renaissance lute music.

By the way, it is tempting to play a similar echo on bars 53 and 54.

Rainer



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html