Re: [MBZ] Fwd: EV kisses.
On 2022-11-12 08:40, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote: You would have to find a way to gain control of the systems, as they’re already screwing people over on resales where they disable options when the car changes owners. That being the case, you’re pretty much at Elon’s mercy unless you find a way to gain control. That or be able to disable updates, which introduces a whole ‘nother bunch of issues. I wonder what the car does if it can't contact the internet for years in a row? Antennas are usually easy to find and disable. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: EV kisses.
That could work in theory but refueling infrastructure is too sparse in most areas, which is also one of the problems that EVs have. On Sat, Nov 12, 2022, at 15:27, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: > How about natural gas instead? > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2022, 2:46 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes > wrote: >> > I can see long haul trucks going hydrogen fuel cell for more range. >> >> I think long haul trucks will stay with diesel for the forseeable future. No >> electric technology is close to feasible for pulling 80,000 lbs for 10+ >> hours at a stretch. >> >> Local deliveries may be another story. Electric may have a role there. >> >> Our local school district has gone all-in on EV buses. I am interested to >> see if they will be able to finish their routes on single-digit-temp January >> mornings. I am guessing that the contract operators on the longer routes >> that run into rural areas will stay with diesel. >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: EV kisses.
Locomotives are all electric. Hydrogen recombines back into water while releasing electricity very nicely. The problem is that generating hydrogen isn't particularly efficient. If the problem of producing hydrogen could be solved it'd be handier than batteries although even more dangerous. Curt Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 2:46 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote: > I can see long haul trucks going hydrogen fuel cell for more range. I think long haul trucks will stay with diesel for the forseeable future. No electric technology is close to feasible for pulling 80,000 lbs for 10+ hours at a stretch. Local deliveries may be another story. Electric may have a role there. Our local school district has gone all-in on EV buses. I am interested to see if they will be able to finish their routes on single-digit-temp January mornings. I am guessing that the contract operators on the longer routes that run into rural areas will stay with diesel. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: EV kisses.
How about natural gas instead? On Sat, Nov 12, 2022, 2:46 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > I can see long haul trucks going hydrogen fuel cell for more range. > > I think long haul trucks will stay with diesel for the forseeable future. > No electric technology is close to feasible for pulling 80,000 lbs for 10+ > hours at a stretch. > > Local deliveries may be another story. Electric may have a role there. > > Our local school district has gone all-in on EV buses. I am interested to > see if they will be able to finish their routes on single-digit-temp > January mornings. I am guessing that the contract operators on the longer > routes that run into rural areas will stay with diesel. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: EV kisses.
> I can see long haul trucks going hydrogen fuel cell for more range. I think long haul trucks will stay with diesel for the forseeable future. No electric technology is close to feasible for pulling 80,000 lbs for 10+ hours at a stretch. Local deliveries may be another story. Electric may have a role there. Our local school district has gone all-in on EV buses. I am interested to see if they will be able to finish their routes on single-digit-temp January mornings. I am guessing that the contract operators on the longer routes that run into rural areas will stay with diesel. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: EV kisses.
I think the battery packs will limit the usability of old EVs. They are a LOT more complex and expensive than you'd think. This guy talks about the battery and charging it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDfV47il5mg He swapped a Tesla powertrain and running gear into a 1950 Jag sedan. There was a video of some guy flinging his used Tesla via trebuchet when he found that a replacement battery was far more than his car was worth. On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 7:37 AM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > I wonder if these things will ever get to beater status where you could > buy them cheepcheep and just hoon the hell out of them, or if they will > just suffer massive multiple system failures to where they couldn’t even be > rat rodded. I suppose some cult dudes will figure out how to run them with > raspberry pis controlling basic functions so maybe some hacks will bypass > all the factory nonsense and you could just flog them unmercifully until > they melt down > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Nov 12, 2022, at 8:18 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > On 2022-11-12 07:41, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote: > >> Yes, thanks, Karl! > >> This is good to know, never having even sat in a Tesla. Makes me want > >> one even less. Although I would like to experience the acceleration. > > > > > > Yeah. A 3 Performance or any late model S would feel like the > street/strip cars of our youth on drag tires. > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- OK Don "Quality of life is inversely proportional to the amount of clothing you are wearing." "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.” Wernher Von Braun 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: EV kisses.
Maybe my Hertz Tesla has some sort of sport suspension on it. But why would Hertz do that? It just seems to be very stiffly sprung with limited suspension travel. I have never been in a car that hobby horses over uneven pavement like this thing. Frost heaves are what did Pobst in at Pikes Peak. Johnny Cash's old Rolls was at my upholstery guy's shop a few months back with a whole new electric drivetrain in it. I think that might actually be a better car than this Y thing. I can see a 560 chassis responding well to electric treatment. But the problem with all this hot rod stuff is lack of support. Unless you are a garage hero with electric motors, where do you turn when something acts up, like the heater or AC? Hope to live near the conversion shop I guess. Tesla seems to have pushed the motors and heating/cooling loops for cabin, battery and motors/transmission to very elegant levels of sophistication and efficiency, from what I read anyway. But the majors will close that gap quickly. Toyota just launched an iron lithium battery car in China - totally new tech for cars and no degradation of battery capacity over time with less fire risk apparently. I can see long haul trucks going hydrogen fuel cell for more range. K On Sat, Nov 12, 2022, 9:27 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > I drove a Model S a few years ago, I don't remember it handling poorly but > it's the top model car... > Curt > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 10:08 AM, Kevin Kraly > wrote: Mercedes content: Our 2019 Sprinter had no tactile buttons or > knobs for radio presets either. However, it did have the capability of > voice activation so I was able to say “Play 98.7 FM,” and it would > immediately obey my command. I could also turn on the seat heater, check > fuel economy instantaneous/average, and probably a few other things. > I did get to experience Tesla acceleration since I got an Uber driver who > was more than happy to show off his new Model III. I got to feel the > dashboard touchscreen since I was able to ride in the front passenger’s > seat before COVID. Go kart ride and handling comments are spot on. > Kevin in Lexington, NC > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Nov 12, 2022, at 9:30 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > My new pickup has no tactile buttons for radio presets which is > irritating. At least it has knobs for HVAC... > > > > Curt > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 9:03 PM, mitch--- via Mercedes< > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: If I'm understanding Karl correctly, my > hate for the touchscreen crap > > has multiplied tenfold. > > Having to take my eyes off the road and focus on a tactile free screen > > to do anything is a safety hazard. > > What pisses me off to no end is when my Chevy puts up a long paragraph > > of verbiage on the screen, and requires me to hit the "OK, I actually > > read all that bullshit while driving" button to bring the radio display > > back up. What's all the verbiage? A warning to not read the damn screen > > while driving!!! > > Makes me want to drive into a tree just so I can sue GM. > > > > But aside from the aforementioned horribly unsafe safety warning, I can > > live with the Chevy. The channel preset buttons are big, you can > > eventually learn approximately where they are, and you're better off > > using the buttons on the back of the steering wheel to just jump up/down > > the channel list anyway. > > > > Having to negotiate levels of menus while driving makes me think the > > best use of the Tesla would be to puncture the batteries, throw it off a > > bridge an enjoy the fireworks when it hits the water. > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: EV kisses.
I drove a Model S a few years ago, I don't remember it handling poorly but it's the top model car... Curt Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 10:08 AM, Kevin Kraly wrote: Mercedes content: Our 2019 Sprinter had no tactile buttons or knobs for radio presets either. However, it did have the capability of voice activation so I was able to say “Play 98.7 FM,” and it would immediately obey my command. I could also turn on the seat heater, check fuel economy instantaneous/average, and probably a few other things. I did get to experience Tesla acceleration since I got an Uber driver who was more than happy to show off his new Model III. I got to feel the dashboard touchscreen since I was able to ride in the front passenger’s seat before COVID. Go kart ride and handling comments are spot on. Kevin in Lexington, NC Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 12, 2022, at 9:30 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes > wrote: > > My new pickup has no tactile buttons for radio presets which is irritating. > At least it has knobs for HVAC... > > Curt > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 9:03 PM, mitch--- via >Mercedes wrote: If I'm understanding Karl correctly, >my hate for the touchscreen crap > has multiplied tenfold. > Having to take my eyes off the road and focus on a tactile free screen > to do anything is a safety hazard. > What pisses me off to no end is when my Chevy puts up a long paragraph > of verbiage on the screen, and requires me to hit the "OK, I actually > read all that bullshit while driving" button to bring the radio display > back up. What's all the verbiage? A warning to not read the damn screen > while driving!!! > Makes me want to drive into a tree just so I can sue GM. > > But aside from the aforementioned horribly unsafe safety warning, I can > live with the Chevy. The channel preset buttons are big, you can > eventually learn approximately where they are, and you're better off > using the buttons on the back of the steering wheel to just jump up/down > the channel list anyway. > > Having to negotiate levels of menus while driving makes me think the > best use of the Tesla would be to puncture the batteries, throw it off a > bridge an enjoy the fireworks when it hits the water. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: EV kisses.
Mercedes content: Our 2019 Sprinter had no tactile buttons or knobs for radio presets either. However, it did have the capability of voice activation so I was able to say “Play 98.7 FM,” and it would immediately obey my command. I could also turn on the seat heater, check fuel economy instantaneous/average, and probably a few other things. I did get to experience Tesla acceleration since I got an Uber driver who was more than happy to show off his new Model III. I got to feel the dashboard touchscreen since I was able to ride in the front passenger’s seat before COVID. Go kart ride and handling comments are spot on. Kevin in Lexington, NC Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 12, 2022, at 9:30 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes > wrote: > > My new pickup has no tactile buttons for radio presets which is irritating. > At least it has knobs for HVAC... > > Curt > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 9:03 PM, mitch--- via > Mercedes wrote: If I'm understanding Karl correctly, > my hate for the touchscreen crap > has multiplied tenfold. > Having to take my eyes off the road and focus on a tactile free screen > to do anything is a safety hazard. > What pisses me off to no end is when my Chevy puts up a long paragraph > of verbiage on the screen, and requires me to hit the "OK, I actually > read all that bullshit while driving" button to bring the radio display > back up. What's all the verbiage? A warning to not read the damn screen > while driving!!! > Makes me want to drive into a tree just so I can sue GM. > > But aside from the aforementioned horribly unsafe safety warning, I can > live with the Chevy. The channel preset buttons are big, you can > eventually learn approximately where they are, and you're better off > using the buttons on the back of the steering wheel to just jump up/down > the channel list anyway. > > Having to negotiate levels of menus while driving makes me think the > best use of the Tesla would be to puncture the batteries, throw it off a > bridge an enjoy the fireworks when it hits the water. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: EV kisses.
My new pickup has no tactile buttons for radio presets which is irritating. At least it has knobs for HVAC... Curt Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 9:03 PM, mitch--- via Mercedes wrote: If I'm understanding Karl correctly, my hate for the touchscreen crap has multiplied tenfold. Having to take my eyes off the road and focus on a tactile free screen to do anything is a safety hazard. What pisses me off to no end is when my Chevy puts up a long paragraph of verbiage on the screen, and requires me to hit the "OK, I actually read all that bullshit while driving" button to bring the radio display back up. What's all the verbiage? A warning to not read the damn screen while driving!!! Makes me want to drive into a tree just so I can sue GM. But aside from the aforementioned horribly unsafe safety warning, I can live with the Chevy. The channel preset buttons are big, you can eventually learn approximately where they are, and you're better off using the buttons on the back of the steering wheel to just jump up/down the channel list anyway. Having to negotiate levels of menus while driving makes me think the best use of the Tesla would be to puncture the batteries, throw it off a bridge an enjoy the fireworks when it hits the water. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: EV kisses.
Yes that’s the key. Need to find some hackers who could reverse engineer the control systems and escape the Elon gulag Sent from my iPad > On Nov 12, 2022, at 8:41 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes > wrote: > > You would have to find a way to gain control of the systems, as they’re > already screwing people over on resales where they disable options when the > car changes owners. > > That being the case, you’re pretty much at Elon’s mercy unless you find a way > to gain control. That or be able to disable updates, which introduces a whole > ‘nother bunch of issues. > > -D > >> On Nov 12, 2022, at 6:37 AM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> I wonder if these things will ever get to beater status where you could buy >> them cheepcheep and just hoon the hell out of them, or if they will just >> suffer massive multiple system failures to where they couldn’t even be rat >> rodded. I suppose some cult dudes will figure out how to run them with >> raspberry pis controlling basic functions so maybe some hacks will bypass >> all the factory nonsense and you could just flog them unmercifully until >> they melt down >> >> Sent from my iPad >> > On Nov 12, 2022, at 8:18 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes > wrote: > > On 2022-11-12 07:41, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote: > Yes, thanks, Karl! > This is good to know, never having even sat in a Tesla. Makes me want > one even less. Although I would like to experience the acceleration. >>> >>> >>> Yeah. A 3 Performance or any late model S would feel like the street/strip >>> cars of our youth on drag tires. >>> >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: EV kisses.
You would have to find a way to gain control of the systems, as they’re already screwing people over on resales where they disable options when the car changes owners. That being the case, you’re pretty much at Elon’s mercy unless you find a way to gain control. That or be able to disable updates, which introduces a whole ‘nother bunch of issues. -D > On Nov 12, 2022, at 6:37 AM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes > wrote: > > I wonder if these things will ever get to beater status where you could buy > them cheepcheep and just hoon the hell out of them, or if they will just > suffer massive multiple system failures to where they couldn’t even be rat > rodded. I suppose some cult dudes will figure out how to run them with > raspberry pis controlling basic functions so maybe some hacks will bypass all > the factory nonsense and you could just flog them unmercifully until they > melt down > > Sent from my iPad > >>> On Nov 12, 2022, at 8:18 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes >>> wrote: >>> >>> On 2022-11-12 07:41, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote: >>> Yes, thanks, Karl! >>> This is good to know, never having even sat in a Tesla. Makes me want >>> one even less. Although I would like to experience the acceleration. >> >> >> Yeah. A 3 Performance or any late model S would feel like the street/strip >> cars of our youth on drag tires. >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: EV kisses.
I wonder if these things will ever get to beater status where you could buy them cheepcheep and just hoon the hell out of them, or if they will just suffer massive multiple system failures to where they couldn’t even be rat rodded. I suppose some cult dudes will figure out how to run them with raspberry pis controlling basic functions so maybe some hacks will bypass all the factory nonsense and you could just flog them unmercifully until they melt down Sent from my iPad > On Nov 12, 2022, at 8:18 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes > wrote: > > On 2022-11-12 07:41, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote: >> Yes, thanks, Karl! >> This is good to know, never having even sat in a Tesla. Makes me want >> one even less. Although I would like to experience the acceleration. > > > Yeah. A 3 Performance or any late model S would feel like the street/strip > cars of our youth on drag tires. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: EV kisses.
On 2022-11-12 07:41, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote: Yes, thanks, Karl! This is good to know, never having even sat in a Tesla. Makes me want one even less. Although I would like to experience the acceleration. Yeah. A 3 Performance or any late model S would feel like the street/strip cars of our youth on drag tires. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: EV kisses.
On 2022-11-11 22:41, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote: Man the stereo is insane though. Almost makes up for the fact that it handles like a RedBull soap box derby racer. The stereo is good to know. The ride quality is good to know. I knew the mass was high and assumed it would cause handling issues, but I expected a fantastic ride with all that mass. Either the mass is poorly dealt with, or the unsprung mass is high. I forget, are the motors on the chassis or in the hubs? The rest of what you said matches my expectations. Linear acceleration/deceleration like an R/C car, and "computer on wheels". Six years ago, if it was my money, it was going to be a Chevy Spark. The Bolt is like an overweight Spark with more power, more range, and an EV specific chassis. The Spark was sort of the testbed/prototype for the Bolt's drivetrain. And with Bolt current pricing, it's like buying a Spark before GM went crazy dumping Sparks at the end of 2016. I don't know where the dashboard controls on the Bolt fit in between a Spark and a Tesla, I've never actually sat in a Bolt. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: EV kisses.
Yes, thanks, Karl! This is good to know, never having even sat in a Tesla. Makes me want one even less. Although I would like to experience the acceleration. -D > On Nov 11, 2022, at 9:24 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes > wrote: > > Great review > > --FT > Sent from iFōn > >> On Nov 11, 2022, at 10:42 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> Man the stereo is insane though. Almost makes up for the fact that it >> handles like a RedBull soap box derby racer. >> >> View out the front is beautiful. >> >> Climate is controlled very well. >> >> Definitely a computer with wheels and a motor. >> >> It shows little diagrams of everything you are driving by, for no apparent >> reason, as it doesnt seem to do much with the info. It beeps at you when >> the light turns green, which helps you get a text sent at the red light >> without slowing anyone else down, which I am not sure is any kind of >> technical victory but more like enabling an alcoholic. >> >> Unbelievably crappy ride. And it makes some sort of a clunk which sounds >> like a suspension component gone rogue. This has been a known issue with >> some of the early forgings and ball joints. I mean come on - if you are >> going to skimp, do it somewhere else. >> >> Combustion engines definitely save people from themselves. Max torque at >> zero rpm is kind of insane. And pedestrians tend to underestimate your >> speed or think you are farther away than you are because it makes no sound >> speeding up. It slows really fast and intuitively with just the accelerator >> pedal so it moves like something out of the Matrix speeding up and slowing >> down so much more readily and naturally than a gas car. To get a gas car to >> do the same thing, you have to burn immense amounts of gas through gear 1 >> and high rpm, which is not reclaimed with braking and you think "hey I'll >> just take it easy and save some fuel". But it seems free on batteries with >> regen braking, as I am paying squat for the energy. So this is just another >> level of around town speed up and slow down, as I expected but no one >> including me seems ready for the capability of the thing. We are in close >> traffic through Beverly Hills and honestly the car tempts you to do things >> you should not and makes them seem perfectly reasonable. It does not need >> 400 or 700hp or whatever it has. If they get that Aptera thing figured out >> and it has real controls and no gimmicks I would probably prefer it. >> Actually I would prefer a bike maybe with some electric assist, but I >> prefer to live longer than LA traffic would allow, if I can. >> >> >> >> >>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2022, 6:03 PM mitch--- via Mercedes >>> wrote: >>> >>> If I'm understanding Karl correctly, my hate for the touchscreen crap >>> has multiplied tenfold. >>> Having to take my eyes off the road and focus on a tactile free screen >>> to do anything is a safety hazard. >>> What pisses me off to no end is when my Chevy puts up a long paragraph >>> of verbiage on the screen, and requires me to hit the "OK, I actually >>> read all that bullshit while driving" button to bring the radio display >>> back up. What's all the verbiage? A warning to not read the damn screen >>> while driving!!! >>> Makes me want to drive into a tree just so I can sue GM. >>> >>> But aside from the aforementioned horribly unsafe safety warning, I can >>> live with the Chevy. The channel preset buttons are big, you can >>> eventually learn approximately where they are, and you're better off >>> using the buttons on the back of the steering wheel to just jump up/down >>> the channel list anyway. >>> >>> Having to negotiate levels of menus while driving makes me think the >>> best use of the Tesla would be to puncture the batteries, throw it off a >>> bridge an enjoy the fireworks when it hits the water. >>> >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >>> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: EV kisses.
Great review --FT Sent from iFōn > On Nov 11, 2022, at 10:42 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes > wrote: > > Man the stereo is insane though. Almost makes up for the fact that it > handles like a RedBull soap box derby racer. > > View out the front is beautiful. > > Climate is controlled very well. > > Definitely a computer with wheels and a motor. > > It shows little diagrams of everything you are driving by, for no apparent > reason, as it doesnt seem to do much with the info. It beeps at you when > the light turns green, which helps you get a text sent at the red light > without slowing anyone else down, which I am not sure is any kind of > technical victory but more like enabling an alcoholic. > > Unbelievably crappy ride. And it makes some sort of a clunk which sounds > like a suspension component gone rogue. This has been a known issue with > some of the early forgings and ball joints. I mean come on - if you are > going to skimp, do it somewhere else. > > Combustion engines definitely save people from themselves. Max torque at > zero rpm is kind of insane. And pedestrians tend to underestimate your > speed or think you are farther away than you are because it makes no sound > speeding up. It slows really fast and intuitively with just the accelerator > pedal so it moves like something out of the Matrix speeding up and slowing > down so much more readily and naturally than a gas car. To get a gas car to > do the same thing, you have to burn immense amounts of gas through gear 1 > and high rpm, which is not reclaimed with braking and you think "hey I'll > just take it easy and save some fuel". But it seems free on batteries with > regen braking, as I am paying squat for the energy. So this is just another > level of around town speed up and slow down, as I expected but no one > including me seems ready for the capability of the thing. We are in close > traffic through Beverly Hills and honestly the car tempts you to do things > you should not and makes them seem perfectly reasonable. It does not need > 400 or 700hp or whatever it has. If they get that Aptera thing figured out > and it has real controls and no gimmicks I would probably prefer it. > Actually I would prefer a bike maybe with some electric assist, but I > prefer to live longer than LA traffic would allow, if I can. > > > > >> On Fri, Nov 11, 2022, 6:03 PM mitch--- via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> If I'm understanding Karl correctly, my hate for the touchscreen crap >> has multiplied tenfold. >> Having to take my eyes off the road and focus on a tactile free screen >> to do anything is a safety hazard. >> What pisses me off to no end is when my Chevy puts up a long paragraph >> of verbiage on the screen, and requires me to hit the "OK, I actually >> read all that bullshit while driving" button to bring the radio display >> back up. What's all the verbiage? A warning to not read the damn screen >> while driving!!! >> Makes me want to drive into a tree just so I can sue GM. >> >> But aside from the aforementioned horribly unsafe safety warning, I can >> live with the Chevy. The channel preset buttons are big, you can >> eventually learn approximately where they are, and you're better off >> using the buttons on the back of the steering wheel to just jump up/down >> the channel list anyway. >> >> Having to negotiate levels of menus while driving makes me think the >> best use of the Tesla would be to puncture the batteries, throw it off a >> bridge an enjoy the fireworks when it hits the water. >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: EV kisses.
Man the stereo is insane though. Almost makes up for the fact that it handles like a RedBull soap box derby racer. View out the front is beautiful. Climate is controlled very well. Definitely a computer with wheels and a motor. It shows little diagrams of everything you are driving by, for no apparent reason, as it doesnt seem to do much with the info. It beeps at you when the light turns green, which helps you get a text sent at the red light without slowing anyone else down, which I am not sure is any kind of technical victory but more like enabling an alcoholic. Unbelievably crappy ride. And it makes some sort of a clunk which sounds like a suspension component gone rogue. This has been a known issue with some of the early forgings and ball joints. I mean come on - if you are going to skimp, do it somewhere else. Combustion engines definitely save people from themselves. Max torque at zero rpm is kind of insane. And pedestrians tend to underestimate your speed or think you are farther away than you are because it makes no sound speeding up. It slows really fast and intuitively with just the accelerator pedal so it moves like something out of the Matrix speeding up and slowing down so much more readily and naturally than a gas car. To get a gas car to do the same thing, you have to burn immense amounts of gas through gear 1 and high rpm, which is not reclaimed with braking and you think "hey I'll just take it easy and save some fuel". But it seems free on batteries with regen braking, as I am paying squat for the energy. So this is just another level of around town speed up and slow down, as I expected but no one including me seems ready for the capability of the thing. We are in close traffic through Beverly Hills and honestly the car tempts you to do things you should not and makes them seem perfectly reasonable. It does not need 400 or 700hp or whatever it has. If they get that Aptera thing figured out and it has real controls and no gimmicks I would probably prefer it. Actually I would prefer a bike maybe with some electric assist, but I prefer to live longer than LA traffic would allow, if I can. On Fri, Nov 11, 2022, 6:03 PM mitch--- via Mercedes wrote: > If I'm understanding Karl correctly, my hate for the touchscreen crap > has multiplied tenfold. > Having to take my eyes off the road and focus on a tactile free screen > to do anything is a safety hazard. > What pisses me off to no end is when my Chevy puts up a long paragraph > of verbiage on the screen, and requires me to hit the "OK, I actually > read all that bullshit while driving" button to bring the radio display > back up. What's all the verbiage? A warning to not read the damn screen > while driving!!! > Makes me want to drive into a tree just so I can sue GM. > > But aside from the aforementioned horribly unsafe safety warning, I can > live with the Chevy. The channel preset buttons are big, you can > eventually learn approximately where they are, and you're better off > using the buttons on the back of the steering wheel to just jump up/down > the channel list anyway. > > Having to negotiate levels of menus while driving makes me think the > best use of the Tesla would be to puncture the batteries, throw it off a > bridge an enjoy the fireworks when it hits the water. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: EV kisses.
If I'm understanding Karl correctly, my hate for the touchscreen crap has multiplied tenfold. Having to take my eyes off the road and focus on a tactile free screen to do anything is a safety hazard. What pisses me off to no end is when my Chevy puts up a long paragraph of verbiage on the screen, and requires me to hit the "OK, I actually read all that bullshit while driving" button to bring the radio display back up. What's all the verbiage? A warning to not read the damn screen while driving!!! Makes me want to drive into a tree just so I can sue GM. But aside from the aforementioned horribly unsafe safety warning, I can live with the Chevy. The channel preset buttons are big, you can eventually learn approximately where they are, and you're better off using the buttons on the back of the steering wheel to just jump up/down the channel list anyway. Having to negotiate levels of menus while driving makes me think the best use of the Tesla would be to puncture the batteries, throw it off a bridge an enjoy the fireworks when it hits the water. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Fwd: EV kisses.
I suspect that when Mercedes ups their EV game, Tesla will be relegated to the minor league of auto makers. It was basically a tax farm anyway. Rick ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Fwd: EV kisses.
See below for day 2 report Somehow it went only to Andrew. For Day 3 I will only add that the fore and aft hobby horsing is super annoying and I dont know what their chassis dynamics people are smoking. Still have not charged it. No key or off switch still annoying. I leave my kid inside and if I take the key along I am worried it is going to lock him in or some other dumb unforeseen consequence. Headlights are exceptionally good. Very quiet. Sitting parked with all climate stuff still running is handy. -- Forwarded message - From: Karl Wittnebel Date: Thu, Nov 10, 2022, 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] EV kisses. To: Andrew Strasfogel Day 2: Driving a Tesla is sort of like having a business partner. You kind of negotiate with it to get it to do what you want, which is usually 3 menus deep. I think if they just simplified this thing and put all the controls for climate and seat heaters and cameras somewhere intuitive, it would be a lot easier to operate. The steering is OK but the chassis dynamics over bumps are truly abysmal. If you get it porpoising it has a fast resonance fore and aft like a car with no suspension. Randy Pobst wrecked one at Pikes Peak two years ago for this reason; when the whole car goes up it has a ton of momentum from the battery and doesnt want to settle back down. He almost wrecked the model S this year for similar reasons; bounced in a corner. Interior quality feels about like a lower end Toyota. It seems like the Ford of electric cars. I see a ton of Audi E-trons here and Taycans and now I know why; the Tesla interior is very average. Fine, but not for 50k. Electrics are still too expensive for what they do. No gas station is definitely a win. Not sure it is worth the headache of this thing. My kid is doing an air particulate project for 6th grade and cars do produce a lot of 2.5 micron particles that are associated with all kinds of poor health outcomes. He is making filters to reduce that stuff and measuring it in the classroom, comparing filter designs. So the electric cars probably win there. Not a big deal outside the city but here there are thousands of cars passing his school twice a day stop and go idling with brake dust etc. So an interesting thing to consider but definitely point source emissions are a plus for the electrics in densely populated areas. Would be fun to try a Lucid Air. But expensive. The Aptera might be cool as a sort of motorcycle substitute. But the Checy Bolt has to be the best deal in electrics for commuting. Another 7500 spif from the feds coming in Jan. On Wed, Nov 9, 2022, 11:42 AM Andrew Strasfogel wrote: > Are those other vehicles you mentioned EV or gas? > > On Wed, Nov 9, 2022 at 2:39 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> The wagon got swiped by some dude at school dropoff, so his insurance is >> paying for me to drive a Tesla for a couple weeks. Model Y. Basic model. >> >> There are some things to get used to, for instance you dont turn the car >> off. You just put it into park and get out and walk away and it locks >> itself up. >> >> The screen is like learning a new software program. Works well for t gh e >> mostpart but not what I am looking for when I get in a car. It would be >> better with some manual a/c controls. >> >> Rarely use the brakes at all. Taking foot off accelerator brings the car >> to >> a halt more aggressively than I usually brake. >> >> The auto steer chirps for no apparent reason sometimes to save me from >> myself I guess. >> >> Handling is like driving a stiffly sprung SUV. Definitely not a luxury >> ride. >> >> Ridiculously quick. I find myself accelerating to speeds I would never >> consider in the diesel between stop signs for example. >> >> The driver assist stuff is all helpful to keep you from running into stuff >> and make you aware of your surroundings. These cars are going to be >> involved in fewer acceidents than normal cars, for sure. >> >> So yes they make speed boring but in general it seems hard to argue with >> it >> for a city car: no point source emissions, quiet, crashworthy, less brake >> dust, cameras all over constantly recording, never go to a gas station or >> get your oil changed. If you dont need a truck and can spend 50k on a car >> there are far dumber vehicles to buy for most americans. Radio is truly >> excellent and kids love the glass roof. >> >> I really want one of those new corolla grx things though. 300hp on 1.6L >> has >> to be some kind of record for a production car and they probably will not >> make them very long. Owning a Lexus gx460 for four years has made me a >> toyota fan. >> >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2022, 5:00 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >> >> > I drove a Tesla model S a couple years ago. Dimitri only says the >> driving >> > experience is insipid because he's never driven one. >> > Curt >> > >> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >> > >> > On Tue, Nov 8, 2022 at 7:58 PM, OK
