Re: [MBZ] VW squareback getting a lot of attention on BAT

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

What a beauty!

Too bad its such a boring color. VWs of that era had an exciting color palette, 
sad that this one didn't use that...

 -Curt

On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 11:59:48 AM EDT, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
 wrote: 





https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-volkswagen-type-3-squareback-27/
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[MBZ] VW squareback getting a lot of attention on BAT

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-volkswagen-type-3-squareback-27/
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Re: [MBZ] VW Bus

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Until I saw the gutted interior I was going to say yeah, that's probably fair 
for a rust-free example with under 10k miles (if that's accurate). Also that's 
not the original exhaust, wonder what else has been modified.

It's also missing some other trim pieces, windshield wipers -- lost in the 
repaint?

It would need a close inspection for bondo and other issues.




On Sun, Nov 27, 2022, at 11:57, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes wrote:
> Is this a crack attack or is this what they are fetching?
>  
> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/908646020121478/
>  
> AZBob
>  
> Sent from Mail  for Windows
>  
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Re: [MBZ] VW Bus

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

That’s actually quite cheap. These things fetch some serious dough these days.

-D

On Nov 27, 2022, at 11:59 AM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes  
wrote:


Is this a crack attack or is this what they are fetching?

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/908646020121478/

AZBob

Sent from Mail for Windows

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Re: [MBZ] VW Bus

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

Not an unreasonable price on these things, although that one looks 
stripped out so not sure how that would affect the price.  A buddy has 
one, I should ask him what they are fetching.


There's a guy on the next island over who had a backyard business 
restoring old VW buses, I don't know if he is still at it or not but he 
always had 3 or 4 sitting around and had one in the garage working on 
it.  My buddy and that guy were friends, there is a crowd of old VW guys 
around who all sorta feed off each other.


--FT

On 11/27/22 11:57 AM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes wrote:


Is this a crack attack or is this what they are fetching?

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/908646020121478/

AZBob

Sent from Mail  for 
Windows



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--
--FT
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Re: [MBZ] VW Bus

[G Mann via Mercedes]

The price listed is inside the market for these buses. Apparently, the days
of buying one for $300 and loading up your hippy commune for a trip to San
Fran is long past and they are now "collector cars".
If it were the version with 22 windows [I forget, but small oval windows
above the roof beltline ] that price could be into the $100K range.
Insane, by my measure..

On Sun, Nov 27, 2022 at 9:58 AM Bob Rentfro via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Is this a crack attack or is this what they are fetching?
>
>
>
> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/908646020121478/
>
>
>
> AZBob
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail  for
> Windows
>
>
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[MBZ] VW Bus

[Bob Rentfro via Mercedes]

Is this a crack attack or is this what they are fetching? https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/908646020121478/ AZBob Sent from Mail for Windows 

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Re: [MBZ] VW Bus looks like but isn't a parts car

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

If true, this proves that the collector car market is somewhat irrational
at this point in time.

On Sun, Apr 10, 2022 at 9:46 PM Allan Streib  wrote:

> The fact that it didn't sell tells me the owner is being unrealistic about
> what it is worth in that condition. A 23 window type 2 can fetch 6 figures,
> if it's nice/original. This one isn't.
>
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2022, at 9:30 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
>
> Bid to $55k and no sale so your observation may not be accurate.
>
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2022 at 7:30 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> Rusty and not original. You could probably find better examples for the
> money.
>
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2022, at 11:02 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> > Bring out your wallets for this one.
> > https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1960-volkswagen-bus-8/
> > ___
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Re: [MBZ] VW Bus looks like but isn't a parts car

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

The fact that it didn't sell tells me the owner is being unrealistic about what 
it is worth in that condition. A 23 window type 2 can fetch 6 figures, if it's 
nice/original. This one isn't.

On Sun, Apr 10, 2022, at 9:30 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
> Bid to $55k and no sale so your observation may not be accurate.
> 
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2022 at 7:30 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
>> Rusty and not original. You could probably find better examples for the 
>> money.
>> 
>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2022, at 11:02 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>> > Bring out your wallets for this one.
>> > https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1960-volkswagen-bus-8/
>> > ___
>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >
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>> >
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Re: [MBZ] VW Bus looks like but isn't a parts car

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Bid to $55k and no sale so your observation may not be accurate.

On Sun, Apr 10, 2022 at 7:30 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Rusty and not original. You could probably find better examples for the
> money.
>
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2022, at 11:02 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> > Bring out your wallets for this one.
> > https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1960-volkswagen-bus-8/
> > ___
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Re: [MBZ] VW Bus looks like but isn't a parts car

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Rusty and not original. You could probably find better examples for the money.

On Sun, Apr 10, 2022, at 11:02 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> Bring out your wallets for this one.
> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1960-volkswagen-bus-8/
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[MBZ] VW Bus looks like but isn't a parts car

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Bring out your wallets for this one.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1960-volkswagen-bus-8/
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[MBZ] Vw problem

[RICK HAWKINS via Mercedes]

Folks

The ghia pushrod may be bent? If not a way loose valve adjustment can cause that

Remove the rocker arm assembly, check it all reassemble and readjust the valves

.006 in

Xx r

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Re: [MBZ] VW Content: Isn't Poos cute?

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Curt Raymond via Mercedes  writes:

>  A friend in high school got into dune buggies but never managed to
>  get one roadworthy.

https://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/d/greenwood-sandrail/724361.html

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] VW Content: Isn't Poos cute?

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

I traded a nice ten-speed Schwinn for a Super Beetle.  I'd paid $100 for the 
bike, my brother had paid the same for the car, and shortly after that he 
wanted a bike and I needed a car, so we traded.

It was an amazing car for what it was.  I got a year or two of driving out of 
it before the brakes rusted out.  Once it had no brakes, we used it as a woods 
car (in Wisconsin) and drove it around on logging roads for another couple 
years.

Dec 7, 2020 10:56:04 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes :

> You’re too old to have owned a “real” Beetle. At least not as a daily driver. 
>  That was back in the day of $100-$200 cars.
>
> -D
>
>

Max Dillon
Charleston SC


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Re: [MBZ] Vw experience

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

I'll give you $500 for two of the rusty split window transporters.

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[MBZ] Vw experience

[Rick Hawkins Java Letterpress Cycles Photon via Mercedes]

Folks,

We had a vw repair shop that started in the same space as my print shop ... the 
print shop was the  name of the printing and the bug shop was the name of the 
vw operation

We ran that from about 1977 to probably the mid 90s but we were done with air 
cooled stuff probably by 1990. I drove nothing but VW (busses mostly) from 
about 1970 to probably 1985 ... then switched to Peugeot then switched to Benz 
... and I think I may be getting close to over 123 Benz ... I like the sprinter 
if I can keep up with the rust on mine

Here is a link
http://www.javaphoto.com/VWpage.html

I thought there were photos, but they are gone as are the cars!

Xx rick

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Re: [MBZ] VW Content: Isn't Poos cute?

[Kevin Kraly via Mercedes]

I haven’t personally owned any air-cooled VW’s, but my Dad owned quite a few. I 
remember a 1967 Baja Bug with stinger exhaust that would backfire LOUDLY 
between shifts which scared me as a kid. Years later, he bought a 1973 Beetle  
for $500 that had rusted floors, and a 1964 Karmann Ghia that was hit in the 
front end that he bought as a project. I helped him cut the damaged nose off 
and hold the junkyard sheet metal  in place so he could weld it. I also 
remember starting it with a ratchet which was pretty cool! We drove it around 
the neighborhood with no fenders as it sipped fuel from a coffee can just to 
see what it could do. My oldest Sister had a 1962 VW Ragtop Bus, boy would I 
LOVE to have that one now!
Kevin in Hillsboro, OR
2019 Sprinter Passenger 144WB 1700 miles, Low Mileage Lutgart AKA Der  
DoodleWagen
1982 240D, High Mileage Hildegard


Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 7, 2020, at 8:48 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Curt Raymond via Mercedes  writes:
> 
>> I keep my eye out for a Type III, either wagon or fastback. They're
>> super cool but very rare these days.
> 
> Friend of mine had a 411 wagon (it was his parent's car but he drove it
> often). It had a gas heater, I remember thinking how odd and vaguely
> hazardous that seemed.
> 
> When I was a small child, the neighbors had a Type III fastback. It
> started to rust, and they traded it in for a Chevy Vega wagon.
> 
> Type IIIs are rare, for sure.
> 
> Allan
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] VW Content: Isn't Poos cute?

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Curt Raymond via Mercedes  writes:

> I keep my eye out for a Type III, either wagon or fastback. They're
> super cool but very rare these days.

Friend of mine had a 411 wagon (it was his parent's car but he drove it
often). It had a gas heater, I remember thinking how odd and vaguely
hazardous that seemed.

When I was a small child, the neighbors had a Type III fastback. It
started to rust, and they traded it in for a Chevy Vega wagon.

Type IIIs are rare, for sure.

Allan


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Re: [MBZ] VW Content: Isn't Poos cute?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I drove one that a friend was selling a couple years ago, it was my first (and 
only) time driving a beetle. Interesting car, more power than I'd expected. I 
wouldn't want to drive one across the country...
-Curt

On Monday, December 7, 2020, 11:35:25 AM EST, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Yes. What a strange beast. I really never learned anything about its workings 
because I was 18 and never had to futz with it.

Bob R

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 7, 2020, at 8:29 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Was that automatic the one with the manual transmission and automatic clutch 
> (touch the shifter and it declutches)?
> 
>> On 2020-12-07 10:25, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes wrote:
>> I feel most of us cut out teeth on Beetles. They were the “gateway”
>> vehicle to “hard” vehicles (MB). Over the course of about ten years, I
>> had two different ‘68 sedans, a ‘68 sedan with an auto transmission
>> (for a girl purchase), and two ‘69 sedans.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] VW Content: Isn't Poos cute?

[Bob Rentfro via Mercedes]

Yes. What a strange beast. I really never learned anything about its workings 
because I was 18 and never had to futz with it.

Bob R

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 7, 2020, at 8:29 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Was that automatic the one with the manual transmission and automatic clutch 
> (touch the shifter and it declutches)?
> 
>> On 2020-12-07 10:25, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes wrote:
>> I feel most of us cut out teeth on Beetles. They were the “gateway”
>> vehicle to “hard” vehicles (MB). Over the course of about ten years, I
>> had two different ‘68 sedans, a ‘68 sedan with an auto transmission
>> (for a girl purchase), and two ‘69 sedans.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] VW Content: Isn't Poos cute?

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I might have been a beetle guy. Way back in the day my grandmother had a green 
beetle convertible she always used to say she was going to give me when I 
turned 16. She of course sold it and later bought a 115. She didn’t give that 
car to me but years later I ended up with it and still have it (waiting on 
engine swap since 1997). 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 7, 2020, at 9:56 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> You’re too old to have owned a “real” Beetle. At least not as a daily 
> driver.  That was back in the day of $100-$200 cars.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Dec 7, 2020, at 10:53 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I my have never owned a VW beetle. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Dec 7, 2020, at 9:26 AM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I feel most of us cut out teeth on Beetles. They were the “gateway” 
>>> vehicle to “hard” vehicles (MB). Over the course of about ten years, I had 
>>> two different ‘68 sedans, a ‘68 sedan with an auto transmission (for a girl 
>>> purchase), and two ‘69 sedans.  
>>> 
>>> Bob R
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
 On Dec 7, 2020, at 5:10 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
  wrote:
 
 Hmm. Beetles I had:
 
 1966 sedan
 1968 convertible
 1971 convertible
 1959 barn door van
 1971 Fastback
 
 At least those are the ones I recall. There may have been others. Rebuilt 
 a few engines, did a fair amount of floor pan and rocker replacements. The 
 1959 barn door van was my all time favorite. Paid $200 for it in 1977. 
 Can’t imagine what it would be worth today.
 
 -D
 
>> On Dec 6, 2020, at 11:09 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 10:29:50 -0800
> Jim Cathey via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
>>> Wonder how many of us have air cooled engine experience?
>> 
>> 
>> My parents had a beetle.  Cold, and slow I remember.
>> 
>> I replaced the rod and welded closed the hole in the block
>> of my Ryobi garden tiller.  Does that count?
>> -
> 58,61,64,65 Beetles. Rebuilt heads in 3 engines; one because I started it 
> with ether and it pulled the headbolts. Installed inserts in crankcase 
> for that reason. Did usual brake jobs on 2 or 3 and usual maintainence.
> Bought 58 for $250 because owner couldn't find brake leak which was 
> between the double firewalls in the front of the cab and because one 
> cylinder was weak. Old version of Delo oil fixed the weak cylinder 
> (probably stuck rings)
> 
> -- 
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] VW Content: Isn't Poos cute?

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I might have been a beetle guy. Way back in the day my grandmother had a green 
beetle convertible she always used to say she was going to give me when I 
turned 16. She of course sold it and later bought a 115. She didn’t give that 
car to me but years later I ended up with it and still have it (waiting on 
engine swap since 1997). 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 7, 2020, at 9:56 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> You’re too old to have owned a “real” Beetle. At least not as a daily 
> driver.  That was back in the day of $100-$200 cars.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Dec 7, 2020, at 10:53 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> I my have never owned a VW beetle.
>> Sent from my iPhone
 On Dec 7, 2020, at 9:26 AM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> I feel most of us cut out teeth on Beetles. They were the “gateway” 
>>> vehicle to “hard” vehicles (MB). Over the course of about ten years, I had 
>>> two different ‘68 sedans, a ‘68 sedan with an auto transmission (for a girl 
>>> purchase), and two ‘69 sedans.  
>>> Bob R
>>> Sent from my iPad
 On Dec 7, 2020, at 5:10 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
  wrote:
 Hmm. Beetles I had:
 1966 sedan
 1968 convertible
 1971 convertible
 1959 barn door van
 1971 Fastback
 At least those are the ones I recall. There may have been others. Rebuilt 
 a few engines, did a fair amount of floor pan and rocker replacements. The 
 1959 barn door van was my all time favorite. Paid $200 for it in 1977. 
 Can’t imagine what it would be worth today.
 -D
>> On Dec 6, 2020, at 11:09 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 10:29:50 -0800
> Jim Cathey via Mercedes  wrote:
>>> Wonder how many of us have air cooled engine experience?
>> My parents had a beetle.  Cold, and slow I remember.
>> I replaced the rod and welded closed the hole in the block
>> of my Ryobi garden tiller.  Does that count?
>> -
> 58,61,64,65 Beetles. Rebuilt heads in 3 engines; one because I started it 
> with ether and it pulled the headbolts. Installed inserts in crankcase 
> for that reason. Did usual brake jobs on 2 or 3 and usual maintainence.
> Bought 58 for $250 because owner couldn't find brake leak which was 
> between the double firewalls in the front of the cab and because one 
> cylinder was weak. Old version of Delo oil fixed the weak cylinder 
> (probably stuck rings)
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] VW Content: Isn't Poos cute?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

You’re too old to have owned a “real” Beetle. At least not as a daily driver.  
That was back in the day of $100-$200 cars.

-D

> On Dec 7, 2020, at 10:53 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I my have never owned a VW beetle. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 7, 2020, at 9:26 AM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I feel most of us cut out teeth on Beetles. They were the “gateway” vehicle 
>> to “hard” vehicles (MB). Over the course of about ten years, I had two 
>> different ‘68 sedans, a ‘68 sedan with an auto transmission (for a girl 
>> purchase), and two ‘69 sedans.  
>> 
>> Bob R
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Dec 7, 2020, at 5:10 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hmm. Beetles I had:
>>> 
>>> 1966 sedan
>>> 1968 convertible
>>> 1971 convertible
>>> 1959 barn door van
>>> 1971 Fastback
>>> 
>>> At least those are the ones I recall. There may have been others. Rebuilt a 
>>> few engines, did a fair amount of floor pan and rocker replacements. The 
>>> 1959 barn door van was my all time favorite. Paid $200 for it in 1977. 
>>> Can’t imagine what it would be worth today.
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> 
> On Dec 6, 2020, at 11:09 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
 
 On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 10:29:50 -0800
 Jim Cathey via Mercedes  wrote:
 
>> Wonder how many of us have air cooled engine experience?
> 
> 
> My parents had a beetle.  Cold, and slow I remember.
> 
> I replaced the rod and welded closed the hole in the block
> of my Ryobi garden tiller.  Does that count?
> -
 58,61,64,65 Beetles. Rebuilt heads in 3 engines; one because I started it 
 with ether and it pulled the headbolts. Installed inserts in crankcase for 
 that reason. Did usual brake jobs on 2 or 3 and usual maintainence.
 Bought 58 for $250 because owner couldn't find brake leak which was 
 between the double firewalls in the front of the cab and because one 
 cylinder was weak. Old version of Delo oil fixed the weak cylinder 
 (probably stuck rings)
 
 -- 
 This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
 https://www.avg.com
 
 
 ___
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 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
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Re: [MBZ] VW Content: Isn't Poos cute?

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I my have never owned a VW beetle. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 7, 2020, at 9:26 AM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I feel most of us cut out teeth on Beetles. They were the “gateway” vehicle 
> to “hard” vehicles (MB). Over the course of about ten years, I had two 
> different ‘68 sedans, a ‘68 sedan with an auto transmission (for a girl 
> purchase), and two ‘69 sedans.  
> 
> Bob R
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Dec 7, 2020, at 5:10 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hmm. Beetles I had:
>> 
>> 1966 sedan
>> 1968 convertible
>> 1971 convertible
>> 1959 barn door van
>> 1971 Fastback
>> 
>> At least those are the ones I recall. There may have been others. Rebuilt a 
>> few engines, did a fair amount of floor pan and rocker replacements. The 
>> 1959 barn door van was my all time favorite. Paid $200 for it in 1977. Can’t 
>> imagine what it would be worth today.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
 On Dec 6, 2020, at 11:09 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 10:29:50 -0800
>>> Jim Cathey via Mercedes  wrote:
>>> 
> Wonder how many of us have air cooled engine experience?
 
 
 My parents had a beetle.  Cold, and slow I remember.
 
 I replaced the rod and welded closed the hole in the block
 of my Ryobi garden tiller.  Does that count?
 -
>>> 58,61,64,65 Beetles. Rebuilt heads in 3 engines; one because I started it 
>>> with ether and it pulled the headbolts. Installed inserts in crankcase for 
>>> that reason. Did usual brake jobs on 2 or 3 and usual maintainence.
>>> Bought 58 for $250 because owner couldn't find brake leak which was between 
>>> the double firewalls in the front of the cab and because one cylinder was 
>>> weak. Old version of Delo oil fixed the weak cylinder (probably stuck rings)
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>> https://www.avg.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] VW Content: Isn't Poos cute?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

“Automatic Stickshift”.

Never had one, fixed a lot of them for friends that did. Contact on the bottom 
of the shifter would often get cruddy and no shift results. I also hated how if 
you rested your hand on the shifter and pushed it down, the contact would open 
and it would engage the clutch and the engine would freewheel.

-D

> On Dec 7, 2020, at 10:28 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Was that automatic the one with the manual transmission and automatic clutch 
> (touch the shifter and it declutches)?
> 
> On 2020-12-07 10:25, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes wrote:
>> I feel most of us cut out teeth on Beetles. They were the “gateway”
>> vehicle to “hard” vehicles (MB). Over the course of about ten years, I
>> had two different ‘68 sedans, a ‘68 sedan with an auto transmission
>> (for a girl purchase), and two ‘69 sedans.
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] VW Content: Isn't Poos cute?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I never had an aircooled VW but I've been around them a little. My mother had 
a Type III fastback when I was born. A friend in high school got into dune 
buggies but never managed to get one roadworthy. Another friend I worked with 
in the '90s drives a campmobile. There's a guy around the corner that 
specializes in 'em.

I keep my eye out for a Type III, either wagon or fastback. They're super cool 
but very rare these days.
-Curt

On Monday, December 7, 2020, 10:26:22 AM EST, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 I feel most of us cut out teeth on Beetles. They were the “gateway” vehicle to 
“hard” vehicles (MB). Over the course of about ten years, I had two different 
‘68 sedans, a ‘68 sedan with an auto transmission (for a girl purchase), and 
two ‘69 sedans.  

Bob R

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 7, 2020, at 5:10 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Hmm. Beetles I had:
> 
> 1966 sedan
> 1968 convertible
> 1971 convertible
> 1959 barn door van
> 1971 Fastback
> 
> At least those are the ones I recall. There may have been others. Rebuilt a 
> few engines, did a fair amount of floor pan and rocker replacements. The 1959 
> barn door van was my all time favorite. Paid $200 for it in 1977. Can’t 
> imagine what it would be worth today.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Dec 6, 2020, at 11:09 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 10:29:50 -0800
>> Jim Cathey via Mercedes  wrote:
>> 
 Wonder how many of us have air cooled engine experience?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> My parents had a beetle.  Cold, and slow I remember.
>>> 
>>> I replaced the rod and welded closed the hole in the block
>>> of my Ryobi garden tiller.  Does that count?
>>> -
>> 58,61,64,65 Beetles. Rebuilt heads in 3 engines; one because I started it 
>> with ether and it pulled the headbolts. Installed inserts in crankcase for 
>> that reason. Did usual brake jobs on 2 or 3 and usual maintainence.
>> Bought 58 for $250 because owner couldn't find brake leak which was between 
>> the double firewalls in the front of the cab and because one cylinder was 
>> weak. Old version of Delo oil fixed the weak cylinder (probably stuck rings)
>> 
>> -- 
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> https://www.avg.com
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] VW Content: Isn't Poos cute?

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Was that automatic the one with the manual transmission and automatic 
clutch (touch the shifter and it declutches)?


On 2020-12-07 10:25, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes wrote:

I feel most of us cut out teeth on Beetles. They were the “gateway”
vehicle to “hard” vehicles (MB). Over the course of about ten years, I
had two different ‘68 sedans, a ‘68 sedan with an auto transmission
(for a girl purchase), and two ‘69 sedans.


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Re: [MBZ] VW Content: Isn't Poos cute?

[Bob Rentfro via Mercedes]

I feel most of us cut out teeth on Beetles. They were the “gateway” vehicle to 
“hard” vehicles (MB). Over the course of about ten years, I had two different 
‘68 sedans, a ‘68 sedan with an auto transmission (for a girl purchase), and 
two ‘69 sedans.  

Bob R

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 7, 2020, at 5:10 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Hmm. Beetles I had:
> 
> 1966 sedan
> 1968 convertible
> 1971 convertible
> 1959 barn door van
> 1971 Fastback
> 
> At least those are the ones I recall. There may have been others. Rebuilt a 
> few engines, did a fair amount of floor pan and rocker replacements. The 1959 
> barn door van was my all time favorite. Paid $200 for it in 1977. Can’t 
> imagine what it would be worth today.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Dec 6, 2020, at 11:09 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 10:29:50 -0800
>> Jim Cathey via Mercedes  wrote:
>> 
 Wonder how many of us have air cooled engine experience?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> My parents had a beetle.  Cold, and slow I remember.
>>> 
>>> I replaced the rod and welded closed the hole in the block
>>> of my Ryobi garden tiller.  Does that count?
>>> -
>> 58,61,64,65 Beetles. Rebuilt heads in 3 engines; one because I started it 
>> with ether and it pulled the headbolts. Installed inserts in crankcase for 
>> that reason. Did usual brake jobs on 2 or 3 and usual maintainence.
>> Bought 58 for $250 because owner couldn't find brake leak which was between 
>> the double firewalls in the front of the cab and because one cylinder was 
>> weak. Old version of Delo oil fixed the weak cylinder (probably stuck rings)
>> 
>> -- 
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> https://www.avg.com
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] VW Content: Isn't Poos cute?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Hmm. Beetles I had:

1966 sedan
1968 convertible
1971 convertible
1959 barn door van
1971 Fastback

At least those are the ones I recall. There may have been others. Rebuilt a few 
engines, did a fair amount of floor pan and rocker replacements. The 1959 barn 
door van was my all time favorite. Paid $200 for it in 1977. Can’t imagine what 
it would be worth today.

-D

> On Dec 6, 2020, at 11:09 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 10:29:50 -0800
> Jim Cathey via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
>>> Wonder how many of us have air cooled engine experience?
>> 
>> 
>> My parents had a beetle.  Cold, and slow I remember.
>> 
>> I replaced the rod and welded closed the hole in the block
>> of my Ryobi garden tiller.  Does that count?
>> -
> 58,61,64,65 Beetles. Rebuilt heads in 3 engines; one because I started it 
> with ether and it pulled the headbolts. Installed inserts in crankcase for 
> that reason. Did usual brake jobs on 2 or 3 and usual maintainence.
> Bought 58 for $250 because owner couldn't find brake leak which was between 
> the double firewalls in the front of the cab and because one cylinder was 
> weak. Old version of Delo oil fixed the weak cylinder (probably stuck rings)
> 
> -- 
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] VW Content: Isn't Poos cute?

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 10:29:50 -0800
Jim Cathey via Mercedes  wrote:

> > Wonder how many of us have air cooled engine experience?
> 
> 
> My parents had a beetle.  Cold, and slow I remember.
> 
> I replaced the rod and welded closed the hole in the block
> of my Ryobi garden tiller.  Does that count?
> -
58,61,64,65 Beetles. Rebuilt heads in 3 engines; one because I started it with 
ether and it pulled the headbolts. Installed inserts in crankcase for that 
reason. Did usual brake jobs on 2 or 3 and usual maintainence.
Bought 58 for $250 because owner couldn't find brake leak which was between the 
double firewalls in the front of the cab and because one cylinder was weak. Old 
version of Delo oil fixed the weak cylinder (probably stuck rings)

-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


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Re: [MBZ] VW Content: Isn't Poos cute?

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

We had a 70 Beetle, dropped #3 exhaust valve and we had a family friend rebuild 
it.  Rusted away, but we all drove the stuffings out of it.  Great car for what 
it was.

The trick to them is that they NEED valve adjustments, particularly on #3 
cylinder because the oil cooler is on that side and #3 tends to run warm.  If 
you don't keep them adjusted, the exhaust valve will get tight, overheat, and 
break off.

Changing the o-rngs on the oil cooler is also a necessity that is always 
ignored -- eventually they leak, and when enough oil gets in there the engine 
catches of fire on the highway and destroys the car.
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Re: [MBZ] VW Content: Isn't Poos cute?

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

First car was a '71 super beetle. Rebuilt the engine, which was a
success. Attempted to repair rusted-out rocker panels, which was less so
but ended up servicable. Never really got the hang of adjusting the drum
brakes. Could get them working for a week or two but the pedal always
ended up going back to full travel and I'd have to pump the brakes to
stop. Replaced several wheel cylinders during my ownership, maybe I
never got all the air bled out. I was 17 and didn't really know what I
was doing -- Bentley mamual was my guide for everything.

Allan

Jim Cathey via Mercedes  writes:

>> Wonder how many of us have air cooled engine experience?
>
>
> My parents had a beetle.  Cold, and slow I remember.
>
> I replaced the rod and welded closed the hole in the block
> of my Ryobi garden tiller.  Does that count?
>
> -- Jim
>

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Re: [MBZ] VW Content: Isn't Poos cute?

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> Wonder how many of us have air cooled engine experience?


My parents had a beetle.  Cold, and slow I remember.

I replaced the rod and welded closed the hole in the block
of my Ryobi garden tiller.  Does that count?

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] VW Content: Isn't Poos cute?

[OK Don via Mercedes]

My first car was a 1951 beetle, deluxe version (aluminum trim and hydraulic
brakes. My second car was another '51 VW, standard version with cable
operated brakes. I maintained Mom's 1958 Deluxe bus, the one with all the
windows. It had the 1200cc engine and she hated it because it was so slow.
Dad bought a new 1965 beetle. I later bought a wrecked 1974 or 78 bus with
the FI 2000cc engine, repaired it and drove it for several years until I
got tired of the cold and my wife never did learn to drive the stick shift.
I rebuilt a couple of my engines, which led to a job while in college doing
the VW engine work for a local foreign car garage.
I now work on and with aircraft air cooled engines.

On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 9:44 AM Max Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Yes, fun picture!
>
> Wonder how many of us have air cooled engine experience?  I've driven and
> worked on 63 beetle,  71 or so super beetle, 66 van, and a 69 wagon.  Only
> had one engine blow up and shove a valve out of the head.  Rebuilt one
> engine.
>
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
>
>
> Dec 5, 2020 5:48:57 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes :
>
> > ___
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> >
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> >
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>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] VW Content: Isn't Poos cute?

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Yes, fun picture! 

Wonder how many of us have air cooled engine experience?  I've driven and 
worked on 63 beetle,  71 or so super beetle, 66 van, and a 69 wagon.  Only had 
one engine blow up and shove a valve out of the head.  Rebuilt one engine.

Max Dillon
Charleston SC


Dec 5, 2020 5:48:57 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes :

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Re: [MBZ] VW Content: Isn't Poos cute?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I think I look especially good. The hat is a nice touch.

Being the youngest, I always got suckered into playing dress up with my big 
sister.

Mom’s 56 Beetle is in the background.

-D

> On Dec 5, 2020, at 5:48 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] VW body kit

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On 2020-11-27 20:31, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes wrote:

I posted one a few weeks ago uncompleted project for cheap. There’s
another one for sale somewhere around I have seen too. They seem to
pop up frequently. I don’t think they’re a VW kit though?


Most of them aren't.
The vast majority were Pinto based.
The VW ones just looked wrong in the back.

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Re: [MBZ] VW body kit

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

That one looks like it's on a old air-cooled VW chassis. You can see the
twin exhaust pipes and what looks like a heat exchanger under the rear
fender in one of the photos.

Allan

Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes  writes:

> I posted one a few weeks ago uncompleted project for cheap. There’s another 
> one for sale somewhere around I have seen too. They seem to pop up 
> frequently. I don’t think they’re a VW kit though?
>
> --FT
> Sent from iPhone
>
>> On Nov 27, 2020, at 3:32 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> https://louisville.craigslist.org/cto/d/la-grange-1929-gazelle/7237238987.html
>> 

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Re: [MBZ] VW body kit

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

I posted one a few weeks ago uncompleted project for cheap. There’s another one 
for sale somewhere around I have seen too. They seem to pop up frequently. I 
don’t think they’re a VW kit though?

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Nov 27, 2020, at 3:32 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> https://louisville.craigslist.org/cto/d/la-grange-1929-gazelle/7237238987.html
> 
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[MBZ] VW body kit

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

https://louisville.craigslist.org/cto/d/la-grange-1929-gazelle/7237238987.html

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Re: [MBZ] VW

[Bob Rentfro via Mercedes]

On these trips I’ve been making to Houston we’ve been given a Jetta gasser 
(kinda crappy compared to my 2014 Jetta gasser), a Passat (light years better 
than the Jetta) and yesterday, got this trip, they gave us a Dodge Journey. It 
seems decent. 

Bob R

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 28, 2019, at 5:18 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Not yet.
> 
> As a side note, apparently the company switched from National to Avis and 
> everyone is complaining about it because Avis cars are turds. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 28, 2019, at 5:56 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> But, ... Is it STEAMING?
>> 
>> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote on 10/28/19 4:53 PM:
>>> I currently have a Jetta for a rental. It’s a pile of crap.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] VW

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

They useta all have the same cars pretty much,  Either GM or FOMOCO, 
except in Hawaii, where a lot of terdcels and corrollas were used by all 
of em.


Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote on 10/28/19 5:18 PM:

Not yet.

As a side note, apparently the company switched from National to Avis and 
everyone is complaining about it because Avis cars are turds.





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Re: [MBZ] VW

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

But they are cheaper turds, with more customer-less service!

My last two rentals (both one-way trips) were Avis, and the service did not
impress but the price was right.  VW Passat (with the funny parking brake
and terrible dash-light adjustment) and a Nissan Altima which was soulless
but the ergonomics were much better (either familiar user interface or
intuitive enough to get the basics done).  The Nissan had, I think, a CVT;
when I would floor the accelerator, RPM would climb to about 4k and then
vary up and down between 4 and 4.5k as it made noises like it was shifting
but the acceleration feel was continuous.

-
Max
Charleston SC


On Mon, Oct 28, 2019 at 6:18 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Not yet.
>
> As a side note, apparently the company switched from National to Avis and
> everyone is complaining about it because Avis cars are turds.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 28, 2019, at 5:56 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > But, ... Is it STEAMING?
> >
> > Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote on 10/28/19 4:53 PM:
> >> I currently have a Jetta for a rental. It’s a pile of crap.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] VW

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Not yet.

As a side note, apparently the company switched from National to Avis and 
everyone is complaining about it because Avis cars are turds. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 28, 2019, at 5:56 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> But, ... Is it STEAMING?
> 
> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote on 10/28/19 4:53 PM:
>> I currently have a Jetta for a rental. It’s a pile of crap.
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] VW

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

But, ... Is it STEAMING?

Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote on 10/28/19 4:53 PM:

I currently have a Jetta for a rental. It’s a pile of crap.





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[MBZ] VW

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I currently have a Jetta for a rental. It’s a pile of crap. 

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] VW EV at the Ring

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Volkswagen Motorsport
Published on Jun 7, 2019
Romain Dumas lapped the 20.8-kilometre Nürburgring-Nordschleife in the 
Volkswagen ID.R faster than any electric vehicle has done before. Check out the 
record-breaking outing from the cockpit.


Faster than Formula E cars, or nobody has officially timed one on the 'ring?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark-Renault_SRT_01E


> On June 10, 2019 at 5:39 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Cool to watch, funny sounds:
> 
> https://youtu.be/c3w3fVS-SgQ 
> 
> -D
> 
> 
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[MBZ] VW EV at the Ring

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Cool to watch, funny sounds:

https://youtu.be/c3w3fVS-SgQ 

-D


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Re: [MBZ] VW heading toward EVs

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Need to move toward nukes...  Anyone want to buy our failed nuke project?
Cheap?

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 9:30 AM, Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 07:40:24 -0500 tyee165 via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
> > They will have to burn coal in order to produce enough electricity to
> > charge all thes
>
> But, from what I hear, they have gotten some sense and are moving away
> from wind and solar.
>
>
> Craig
>
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Re: [MBZ] VW heading toward EVs

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 07:40:24 -0500 tyee165 via Mercedes
 wrote:

> They will have to burn coal in order to produce enough electricity to
> charge all thes

But, from what I hear, they have gotten some sense and are moving away
from wind and solar.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] VW heading toward EVs

[tyee165 via Mercedes]

They will have to burn coal in order to produce enough electricity to charge 
all thes


Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
 Date: 2018-04-25  10:23 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: 
"mercedes@okiebenz com"  Cc: Karl Wittnebel 
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] VW heading toward EVs 
They will not sell enough evs to hit the co2 target for the fleet, so they
will have to keep the diesels for awhile. But they are making a serious ev
push.

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 5:53 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: electric cars.

> Jake Fisher of*Consumer Reports  is hardly someone to be taken as an
> authority, in light of the toada/CR scandals.   He is a shill paid by toada.
>
>
>
> Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> > Jake Fisher of*Consumer Reports
>
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Re: [MBZ] VW heading toward EVs

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

They will not sell enough evs to hit the co2 target for the fleet, so they
will have to keep the diesels for awhile. But they are making a serious ev
push.

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 5:53 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Jake Fisher of*Consumer Reports  is hardly someone to be taken as an
> authority, in light of the toada/CR scandals.   He is a shill paid by toada.
>
>
>
> Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> > Jake Fisher of*Consumer Reports
>
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Re: [MBZ] VW heading toward EVs

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Jake Fisher of*Consumer Reports  is hardly someone to be taken as an authority, 
in light of the toada/CR scandals.   He is a shill paid by toada.



Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

Jake Fisher of*Consumer Reports


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[MBZ] VW heading toward EVs

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Tarnished by scandal, VW looks to electric carsPublished: Wednesday, April
25, 2018

Three years after news broke of Volkswagen's emissions cheating scandal
known as "dieselgate," the automaker is looking to rebrand.

VW plans to ramp up its supply of electric vehicles and largely turn away
from diesel. And the company recently announced Herbert Diess would take
over as CEO.

"Electrification is going to be the powertrain of the future," said
Matthias Erb, the automaker's chief engineering officer in North America.

In addition to a stream of apologies, VW has paid more than $20 billion in
fines and court settlements. In Europe, the investigation is ongoing.

VW didn't seem very interested in EVs prior to the diesel scandal,
according to Jake Fisher of *Consumer Reports*. Others note that most major
automakers are moving toward EVs (Sonari Glinton, NPR
,
April 24). *— KB*
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[MBZ] VW 3.0L Settlement payments

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

In case anyone is interested, here are the payouts proposed by model year
and lease/own.

In our case, for a 2014 leased Treg, even if they fix it, the compensation
amount remains substantial.

https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/en/proposed-3-0l-tdi-recall-program/

On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 4:07 PM, Kyle Arola via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Holy poop!!!
>
> Mind blown...
>
> The motor is a Cali... I did do the egr and can delete already but lots of
> air cleaner difference.
>
> I am guessing that a donor 85 wagon is in my future. Hahaha!
>
> Kyle
>
> On Feb 8, 2017 6:43 PM, "Meade Dillon via Mercedes"  >
> wrote:
>
> Kyle, the SD is the "S-Class" and as you've learned there are a lot of
> differences.
>
> Your '85 version TD is unique in several ways, let's see how many I can get
> right.
>
> (1) the head for the SLS pump, any other 123 wagon engine will work.
>
> (2) Tail lights, rear bumper lights
>
> (3) Tailgate hardware and wiper motor with fluid reservoir
>
> (4) Third row rear seat stuff including belts
>
> (6) SLS rear suspension _may_ share some parts with 126 500SEL cars with
> SLS, like the control valve, struts.
>
> (7) '85 123 cars have a different injection pump with the IP timing port
>
> (8) '85 123 cars have KLIMA relay with the AC compressor belt saving
> function (does that make the AC compressor different as well, for the speed
> sensor?)
>
> (9) '85 123 cars have a different transmission from earlier 123 cars
>
> (10) '85 123 cars have a different differential from earlier 123 cars
>
> (11) Yours is an '85 California version?  Different air cleaner?  Other
> differences for emmisions?
>
> (12) wagons have different muffler system
>
> (13) wagons have different fuel tank, fuel level sender
>
> In other words, if you ever run across a wagon for parts, you'll want to
> collect the parts mentioned above "just in case".
>
> Are the 123 wagon rear doors different from sedans?
>
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
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Re: [MBZ] VW Scandal

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Great. Maybe it will buy an aq-1 to log all the pressures, temps and rpms
on the compound 606 setup. And a fish lunch for four.

On Feb 1, 2017 11:52 AM, "Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I think this is an update to pervious stories.
>
> Automaker, supplier will pay drivers of 3.0-liter diesel cars
>
> Camille von Kaenel , E&E
> News reporter
> Published: Wednesday, February 1, 2017
>
> Volkswagen AG has agreed to pay drivers of 3.0-liter diesel-engine vehicles
> with defeat devices at least $1.2 billion to buy back or fix their cars.
>
> Bosch Corp., a German supplier involved in the manufacturing of the defeat
> devices the automaker used to cheat emissions standards, also agreed to
> contribute at least $276 million to the settlement. It did not accept
> wrongdoing or liability but decided to participate in the settlement to
> focus on its own "transformative" process.
>
> The latest Volkswagen deal follows an earlier $10 billion settlement with
> drivers of 2.0-liter diesel-engine vehicles. Volkswagen will have spent
> more than $20 billion to address the aftermath of its emissions cheating
> scandal, including civil and criminal penalties, payments to drivers, and
> funding for projects to counter environmental harm.
>
> If the automaker does not end up finding a fix for all the 80,000 or so
> 3.0-liter diesel vehicles and getting it approved by U.S. EPA and the
> California Air Resources Board, it could end up paying more than $4 billion
> to drivers, , according to court documents filed yesterday.
>
> Drivers of the 2009-2012 VW Touareg and the 2009-2012 Audi Q7 are eligible
> for a buyback. Owners of newer vehicles for which regulators expect a fix —
> the 2013-2016 VW Touareg, 2014-2016 Audi A6 and A7 quattro, 2014-2016 Audi
> A8 and A8 L, 2014-2016 Audi Q5, 2013-2015 Audi Q7, and 2013-2016 Porsche
> Cayenne — will get the full repair and a payment.
>
> A federal judge in San Francisco will hold a hearing on Feb. 14 to grant
> preliminary approval to the deal.
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[MBZ] VW Scandal

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I think this is an update to pervious stories.

Automaker, supplier will pay drivers of 3.0-liter diesel cars

Camille von Kaenel , E&E
News reporter
Published: Wednesday, February 1, 2017

Volkswagen AG has agreed to pay drivers of 3.0-liter diesel-engine vehicles
with defeat devices at least $1.2 billion to buy back or fix their cars.

Bosch Corp., a German supplier involved in the manufacturing of the defeat
devices the automaker used to cheat emissions standards, also agreed to
contribute at least $276 million to the settlement. It did not accept
wrongdoing or liability but decided to participate in the settlement to
focus on its own "transformative" process.

The latest Volkswagen deal follows an earlier $10 billion settlement with
drivers of 2.0-liter diesel-engine vehicles. Volkswagen will have spent
more than $20 billion to address the aftermath of its emissions cheating
scandal, including civil and criminal penalties, payments to drivers, and
funding for projects to counter environmental harm.

If the automaker does not end up finding a fix for all the 80,000 or so
3.0-liter diesel vehicles and getting it approved by U.S. EPA and the
California Air Resources Board, it could end up paying more than $4 billion
to drivers, , according to court documents filed yesterday.

Drivers of the 2009-2012 VW Touareg and the 2009-2012 Audi Q7 are eligible
for a buyback. Owners of newer vehicles for which regulators expect a fix —
the 2013-2016 VW Touareg, 2014-2016 Audi A6 and A7 quattro, 2014-2016 Audi
A8 and A8 L, 2014-2016 Audi Q5, 2013-2015 Audi Q7, and 2013-2016 Porsche
Cayenne — will get the full repair and a payment.

A federal judge in San Francisco will hold a hearing on Feb. 14 to grant
preliminary approval to the deal.
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Re: [MBZ] VW macrobus

[MG via Mercedes]

As far as I can remember the transaxle was the same. The only 
difference was the axles themselves. The reduction box was there 
more to give better power from the same engine because of the 
weight carrying capabilities of the bus.


We used to drive from Westchester up to the Catskills a lot of 
weekends to get flagstones out of the rivers and sides of the 
hills up there. We would load the back of the bus from the rear 
seat all the way to the front wall up to the level of the seat 
with those slabs. All were neatly stacked in. Dad and I built a 
large patio at the back of the house with those.


Needless to say the bus (both 64 and the 67 when we bought that 
new) went really slow going up the hills coming back loaded. 
Trick was to pick up as much speed as possible on the downhill 
run without running off the road in the curves. Good training for 
road racing. Learned all about using the whole road in a curve 
from the outside to the inside and back to the outside over both 
lanes on your side of the four-lane. Not as much traffic back 
then as there is now.


All of those old VWs did good offroad due to the engine and 
transaxle being in the back. They were after all developed during 
WWII for that very purpose.


Attached is a picture of an original ca/trailer developed by VW 
back then for the recovery of the original buses and cars if they 
broke down during testing. They also made 4x4 versions of the bug 
used as military command cars.


Manfred




Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2016 21:41:57 -0400
From: Dan Penoff 

I was just guessing base on memories that are nearly 50 years 
old.  I was surprised when I discovered them at the time, and 
when I started researching (at the time) I thought I came across 
something that said they were 1:1 and just there to increase 
ground clearance.


That would suggest that the transaxles for the bus were different 
from the car, as they would have factored into the final drive?


Only bus I ever had, and during a period of time when I was not 
what one would considered ?clear headed?, so I?m not surprised I 
was unaware of this.  Understand that my barn door bus was 
painted dark green and had ?Der Party Vagon? airbrushed in white 
Old English lettering on the sides, courtesy of a good friend who 
frequented our home shop for the air supply to do her airbrush art.


I will say that with the set of snow wires off my Mom?s 1974 
Impala Custom Coupe on the rear wheels that bus would go just 
about anywhere.  I off roaded in it regularly, both on purpose 
and not on purpose.


'nuf said.

Dan
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Re: [MBZ] VW macrobus

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

That’s a pretty close approximation.  Just lose the skateboards.

Dan


> On Oct 4, 2016, at 12:35 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> ‎http://youtu.be/uWiYphJUS7Q
> 
> Rick 
> Sent from my BlackBerry Z10‎
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Re: [MBZ] VW macrobus

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

‎http://youtu.be/uWiYphJUS7Q

Rick 
Sent from my BlackBerry Z10‎
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Re: [MBZ] VW macrobus

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Hippie Martha!   Whoda thunk it?



Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
October 3, 2016 at 8:45 PM
I would add that my bus had a 1200cc mill in it, and it would go for 
what seemed like weeks on a tank of gas. No gauge, just the sump. Knob 
in the center console as I recall. Engine started to sputter, pull out 
the knob and you were good for another 30-40 miles or more.


Had a cool overhead console, too. Originally there was an air duct 
there to send air from under the roof at the front of the cab to the 
passenger area. I took the cover off this and put some gauges and a 
stereo up there.


Peace, man.





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Re: [MBZ] VW macrobus

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I would add that my bus had a 1200cc mill in it, and it would go for what 
seemed like weeks on a tank of gas.  No gauge, just the sump.  Knob in the 
center console as I recall.  Engine started to sputter, pull out the knob and 
you were good for another 30-40 miles or more.

Had a cool overhead console, too.  Originally there was an air duct there to 
send air from under the roof at the front of the cab to the passenger area.  I 
took the cover off this and put some gauges and a stereo up there.

Peace, man.


> On Oct 3, 2016, at 9:41 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> 
> I was just guessing base on memories that are nearly 50 years old.  I was 
> surprised when I discovered them at the time, and when I started researching 
> (at the time) I thought I came across something that said they were 1:1 and 
> just there to increase ground clearance.
> 
> That would suggest that the transaxles for the bus were different from the 
> car, as they would have factored into the final drive?
> 
> Only bus I ever had, and during a period of time when I was not what one 
> would considered “clear headed”, so I’m not surprised I was unaware of this.  
> Understand that my barn door bus was painted dark green and had “Der Party 
> Vagon” airbrushed in white Old English lettering on the sides, courtesy of a 
> good friend who frequented our home shop for the air supply to do her 
> airbrush art.
> 
> I will say that with the set of snow wires off my Mom’s 1974 Impala Custom 
> Coupe on the rear wheels that bus would go just about anywhere.  I off roaded 
> in it regularly, both on purpose and not on purpose.
> 
> 'nuf said.
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 3, 2016, at 8:08 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Oh hey that reminds me:http://www.vintagebus.com/busfaq.html
>> contradicts Dan's contention that they weren't reduction boxes. I wonder if 
>> he's had some different gears to have it not reduce? I found another site 
>> that even lists the gearing options that could be had...
>> -Curt
>> 
>> From: MG via Mercedes 
>> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com 
>> Cc: trainpain2...@aol.com
>> Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] VW macrobus
>> 
>> That's what I did for my Mom years ago with an 84 bus. It also 
>> had a 5 speed transmission. She loved it. Used crow about blowing 
>> away some old guy in a big boat Cadillac that was just stumbling 
>> along at 45 or 50 in a 55 zone. Said she never would have been 
>> able to do that with the old engine in it.
>> 
>> Manfred
>> 
>> 
>>> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2016 00:36:54 + (UTC)
>>> From: Curt Raymond 
>>> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
>>> 
>>> The split window busses had gear reduction boxes at the rear wheels for 
>>> extra gearing and aren't bad around town. Put a 2000cc Porsche engine in 
>>> one for a real sleeper...
>>> Curt
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] VW macrobus

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I was just guessing base on memories that are nearly 50 years old.  I was 
surprised when I discovered them at the time, and when I started researching 
(at the time) I thought I came across something that said they were 1:1 and 
just there to increase ground clearance.

That would suggest that the transaxles for the bus were different from the car, 
as they would have factored into the final drive?

Only bus I ever had, and during a period of time when I was not what one would 
considered “clear headed”, so I’m not surprised I was unaware of this.  
Understand that my barn door bus was painted dark green and had “Der Party 
Vagon” airbrushed in white Old English lettering on the sides, courtesy of a 
good friend who frequented our home shop for the air supply to do her airbrush 
art.

I will say that with the set of snow wires off my Mom’s 1974 Impala Custom 
Coupe on the rear wheels that bus would go just about anywhere.  I off roaded 
in it regularly, both on purpose and not on purpose.

'nuf said.

Dan



> On Oct 3, 2016, at 8:08 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Oh hey that reminds me:http://www.vintagebus.com/busfaq.html
> contradicts Dan's contention that they weren't reduction boxes. I wonder if 
> he's had some different gears to have it not reduce? I found another site 
> that even lists the gearing options that could be had...
> -Curt
> 
>  From: MG via Mercedes 
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com 
> Cc: trainpain2...@aol.com
> Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] VW macrobus
> 
> That's what I did for my Mom years ago with an 84 bus. It also 
> had a 5 speed transmission. She loved it. Used crow about blowing 
> away some old guy in a big boat Cadillac that was just stumbling 
> along at 45 or 50 in a 55 zone. Said she never would have been 
> able to do that with the old engine in it.
> 
> Manfred
> 
> 
>> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2016 00:36:54 + (UTC)
>> From: Curt Raymond 
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
>> 
>> The split window busses had gear reduction boxes at the rear wheels for 
>> extra gearing and aren't bad around town. Put a 2000cc Porsche engine in one 
>> for a real sleeper...
>> Curt
> 
> 
> ___
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] VW macrobus

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Oh hey that reminds me:http://www.vintagebus.com/busfaq.html
contradicts Dan's contention that they weren't reduction boxes. I wonder if 
he's had some different gears to have it not reduce? I found another site that 
even lists the gearing options that could be had...
-Curt

  From: MG via Mercedes 
 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Cc: trainpain2...@aol.com
 Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:52 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] VW macrobus
   
That's what I did for my Mom years ago with an 84 bus. It also 
had a 5 speed transmission. She loved it. Used crow about blowing 
away some old guy in a big boat Cadillac that was just stumbling 
along at 45 or 50 in a 55 zone. Said she never would have been 
able to do that with the old engine in it.

Manfred


> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2016 00:36:54 + (UTC)
> From: Curt Raymond 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> 
> The split window busses had gear reduction boxes at the rear wheels for extra 
> gearing and aren't bad around town. Put a 2000cc Porsche engine in one for a 
> real sleeper...
> Curt


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Re: [MBZ] VW macrobus

[MG via Mercedes]

All the Buses up to the beginning of the 68 model had a reduction 
gear box at the wheels. It was never a 1:1 in there. The axle had 
a smaller gear and the wheel hub had a slightly bigger gear. I 
did way too much work on those things not to remember that.


Manfred



Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 20:43:40 -0400
From: Dan Penoff 

I had a 59 barn door van and it didn?t have gear reduction at the wheels as I 
recall, just 1:1 gearing to increase the ride height.  I?m not aware that these 
had gear reduction, but it?s been a long time since I wrenched on one.

Dan




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Re: [MBZ] VW macrobus

[MG via Mercedes]

That's what I did for my Mom years ago with an 84 bus. It also 
had a 5 speed transmission. She loved it. Used crow about blowing 
away some old guy in a big boat Cadillac that was just stumbling 
along at 45 or 50 in a 55 zone. Said she never would have been 
able to do that with the old engine in it.


Manfred



Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2016 00:36:54 + (UTC)
From: Curt Raymond 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 

The split window busses had gear reduction boxes at the rear wheels for extra 
gearing and aren't bad around town. Put a 2000cc Porsche engine in one for a 
real sleeper...
Curt



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Re: [MBZ] VW macrobus

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

could be.. or a flat 4 with very low testosterone and high estrogen 
showing Harley Davidson Syndrome.



Fred Moir via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
September 29, 2016 at 11:17 PM
Twin stacks = V8 ??


Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.



From: Mercedes  on behalf of Curt 
Raymond via Mercedes 

Sent: 30 September 2016 00:36
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Curt Raymond
Subject: Re: [MBZ] VW macrobus

The split window busses had gear reduction boxes at the rear wheels 
for extra gearing and aren't bad around town. Put a 2000cc Porsche 
engine in one for a real sleeper...

Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via 
Mercedes wrote: That's hilarious. I wonder 
whether it could climb any hill except in 1st

gear, no matter how gentle.
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Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
September 29, 2016 at 2:48 PM
That's hilarious. I wonder whether it could climb any hill except in 1st
gear, no matter how gentle.

On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 3:41 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
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Mitch Haley via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
September 29, 2016 at 2:41 PM
http://www.dumpaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/daily-pictures-dumpaday-351.jpg

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Re: [MBZ] VW macrobus

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 04:17:00 + Fred Moir via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Twin stacks = V8 ??

No.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] VW macrobus

[Fred Moir via Mercedes]

Twin stacks = V8 ??


Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.



From: Mercedes  on behalf of Curt Raymond via 
Mercedes 
Sent: 30 September 2016 00:36
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Curt Raymond
Subject: Re: [MBZ] VW macrobus

The split window busses had gear reduction boxes at the rear wheels for extra 
gearing and aren't bad around town. Put a 2000cc Porsche engine in one for a 
real sleeper...
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

  On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via 
Mercedes wrote:   That's hilarious.  I wonder whether it 
could climb any hill except in 1st
gear, no matter how gentle.
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Re: [MBZ] VW macrobus

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I had a 59 barn door van and it didn’t have gear reduction at the wheels as I 
recall, just 1:1 gearing to increase the ride height.  I’m not aware that these 
had gear reduction, but it’s been a long time since I wrenched on one.

Dan


> On Sep 29, 2016, at 8:36 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The split window busses had gear reduction boxes at the rear wheels for extra 
> gearing and aren't bad around town. Put a 2000cc Porsche engine in one for a 
> real sleeper...
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 
>  On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via 
> Mercedes wrote:   That's hilarious.  I wonder whether 
> it could climb any hill except in 1st
> gear, no matter how gentle.
> 
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 3:41 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> http://www.dumpaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/daily-
>> pictures-dumpaday-351.jpg
>> 
>> ___
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Re: [MBZ] VW macrobus

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

The split window busses had gear reduction boxes at the rear wheels for extra 
gearing and aren't bad around town. Put a 2000cc Porsche engine in one for a 
real sleeper...
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via 
Mercedes wrote:   That's hilarious.  I wonder whether it 
could climb any hill except in 1st
gear, no matter how gentle.

On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 3:41 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> http://www.dumpaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/daily-
> pictures-dumpaday-351.jpg
>
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Re: [MBZ] VW macrobus

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

That's hilarious.  I wonder whether it could climb any hill except in 1st
gear, no matter how gentle.

On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 3:41 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> http://www.dumpaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/daily-
> pictures-dumpaday-351.jpg
>
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[MBZ] VW macrobus

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

http://www.dumpaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/daily-pictures-dumpaday-351.jpg

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Re: [MBZ] VW has lowest emissions

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Thats probably more along the lines of what I meant.
The Germans are starting to push back on the EU, supporting all those other 
countries looks a little less fun every year...
-Curt

  From: "arche...@embarqmail.com" 
 To: Curt Raymond ; Mercedes Discussion List 
 
 Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 12:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] VW has lowest emissions
   
From what I've read over the years, they might have massive, well organized 
strikes; blocking roads, etc.; just like the French farmers did several years 
ago. Don't recall any riots; at least any recent riots.
Gerry

> Do you suppose Europeans would riot if they all suddenly had to buy gas cars 
> and pay more for fuel as gas prices rose?
> -Curt
> 
>      From: archer75--- via Mercedes 
>  To: Mercedes Discussion List  
> Cc: "arche...@embarqmail.com" 
>  Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 2:43 AM
>  Subject: [MBZ] VW has lowest emissions
>    
> 
> All major diesel car brands in Europe are selling vehicles that do not comply 
> with air-pollution limits. The study shows Germany’s Volkswagen produces some 
> of the cleanest cars.
> According to the report which comes in the wake of Volkswagen ‘Dieselgate’ 
> scandal, there are 29 million 'dirty' diesel cars and vans driving on 
> Europe's roads today, and that number is growing. The report classifies a car 
> as ‘dirty’ if emissions are more than three times the relevant NOx (Nitrogen 
> oxides) limit.
> 
> “One year after the US caught Volkswagen cheating; all carmakers keep selling 
> grossly polluting diesel cars with the connivance of European governments... 
> Only a recall of all harmful diesel cars will clean up our air and restore 
> credibility in Europe’s legal system,” said Greg Archer, clean vehicles 
> director at T&E.
> 
> The researchers analyzed emissions test data from around 230 diesel car 
> models. They found that Fiat and Suzuki diesel cars on average pollute 15 
> times more than the legal NOx limit while Renault-Nissan vehicles exceed the 
> limit more than 14 times. General Motors’ brands Opel-Vauxhall emissions were 
> found to be ten times higher than permitted levels.
> 
> The report revealed that under the new European exhaust emissions standard 
> called Euro 6 rules, German manufacturer Volkswagen was selling among the 
> cleanest diesel vehicles.
> 
> T&A, however, said that the better performance of Volkswagen Euro 6 cars had 
> nothing to do with Dieselgate, but with better technology choices made before 
> the scandal erupted.
> 
> “Volkswagen is not the carmaker producing the diesel cars with highest 
> nitrogen oxides emissions and the failure to investigate other companies 
> brings disgrace on the European regulatory system,” says Greg Archer. 
> 
> www.transportenvironment.org

---
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Re: [MBZ] VW has lowest emissions

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

From what I've read over the years, they might have massive, well organized 
strikes; blocking roads, etc.; just like the French farmers did several years 
ago. Don't recall any riots; at least any recent riots.
Gerry

> Do you suppose Europeans would riot if they all suddenly had to buy gas cars 
> and pay more for fuel as gas prices rose?
> -Curt
> 
>   From: archer75--- via Mercedes 
>  To: Mercedes Discussion List  
> Cc: "arche...@embarqmail.com" 
>  Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 2:43 AM
>  Subject: [MBZ] VW has lowest emissions
>
> 
> All major diesel car brands in Europe are selling vehicles that do not comply 
> with air-pollution limits. The study shows Germany’s Volkswagen produces some 
> of the cleanest cars.
> According to the report which comes in the wake of Volkswagen ‘Dieselgate’ 
> scandal, there are 29 million 'dirty' diesel cars and vans driving on 
> Europe's roads today, and that number is growing. The report classifies a car 
> as ‘dirty’ if emissions are more than three times the relevant NOx (Nitrogen 
> oxides) limit.
> 
> “One year after the US caught Volkswagen cheating; all carmakers keep selling 
> grossly polluting diesel cars with the connivance of European governments... 
> Only a recall of all harmful diesel cars will clean up our air and restore 
> credibility in Europe’s legal system,” said Greg Archer, clean vehicles 
> director at T&E.
> 
> The researchers analyzed emissions test data from around 230 diesel car 
> models. They found that Fiat and Suzuki diesel cars on average pollute 15 
> times more than the legal NOx limit while Renault-Nissan vehicles exceed the 
> limit more than 14 times. General Motors’ brands Opel-Vauxhall emissions were 
> found to be ten times higher than permitted levels.
> 
> The report revealed that under the new European exhaust emissions standard 
> called Euro 6 rules, German manufacturer Volkswagen was selling among the 
> cleanest diesel vehicles.
> 
> T&A, however, said that the better performance of Volkswagen Euro 6 cars had 
> nothing to do with Dieselgate, but with better technology choices made before 
> the scandal erupted.
> 
> “Volkswagen is not the carmaker producing the diesel cars with highest 
> nitrogen oxides emissions and the failure to investigate other companies 
> brings disgrace on the European regulatory system,” says Greg Archer. 
> 
> www.transportenvironment.org

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Re: [MBZ] VW has lowest emissions

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Do you suppose Europeans would riot if they all suddenly had to buy gas cars 
and pay more for fuel as gas prices rose?
-Curt

  From: archer75--- via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Cc: "arche...@embarqmail.com" 
 Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 2:43 AM
 Subject: [MBZ] VW has lowest emissions
   

All major diesel car brands in Europe are selling vehicles that do not comply 
with air-pollution limits. The study shows Germany’s Volkswagen produces some 
of the cleanest cars.
According to the report which comes in the wake of Volkswagen ‘Dieselgate’ 
scandal, there are 29 million 'dirty' diesel cars and vans driving on Europe's 
roads today, and that number is growing. The report classifies a car as ‘dirty’ 
if emissions are more than three times the relevant NOx (Nitrogen oxides) limit.

“One year after the US caught Volkswagen cheating; all carmakers keep selling 
grossly polluting diesel cars with the connivance of European governments... 
Only a recall of all harmful diesel cars will clean up our air and restore 
credibility in Europe’s legal system,” said Greg Archer, clean vehicles 
director at T&E.

The researchers analyzed emissions test data from around 230 diesel car models. 
They found that Fiat and Suzuki diesel cars on average pollute 15 times more 
than the legal NOx limit while Renault-Nissan vehicles exceed the limit more 
than 14 times. General Motors’ brands Opel-Vauxhall emissions were found to be 
ten times higher than permitted levels.

The report revealed that under the new European exhaust emissions standard 
called Euro 6 rules, German manufacturer Volkswagen was selling among the 
cleanest diesel vehicles.

T&A, however, said that the better performance of Volkswagen Euro 6 cars had 
nothing to do with Dieselgate, but with better technology choices made before 
the scandal erupted.

“Volkswagen is not the carmaker producing the diesel cars with highest nitrogen 
oxides emissions and the failure to investigate other companies brings disgrace 
on the European regulatory system,” says Greg Archer. 

www.transportenvironment.org

 

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[MBZ] VW has lowest emissions

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

All major diesel car brands in Europe are selling vehicles that do not comply 
with air-pollution limits. The study shows Germany’s Volkswagen produces some 
of the cleanest cars.
According to the report which comes in the wake of Volkswagen ‘Dieselgate’ 
scandal, there are 29 million 'dirty' diesel cars and vans driving on Europe's 
roads today, and that number is growing. The report classifies a car as ‘dirty’ 
if emissions are more than three times the relevant NOx (Nitrogen oxides) limit.

“One year after the US caught Volkswagen cheating; all carmakers keep selling 
grossly polluting diesel cars with the connivance of European governments... 
Only a recall of all harmful diesel cars will clean up our air and restore 
credibility in Europe’s legal system,” said Greg Archer, clean vehicles 
director at T&E.

The researchers analyzed emissions test data from around 230 diesel car models. 
They found that Fiat and Suzuki diesel cars on average pollute 15 times more 
than the legal NOx limit while Renault-Nissan vehicles exceed the limit more 
than 14 times. General Motors’ brands Opel-Vauxhall emissions were found to be 
ten times higher than permitted levels.

The report revealed that under the new European exhaust emissions standard 
called Euro 6 rules, German manufacturer Volkswagen was selling among the 
cleanest diesel vehicles.

T&A, however, said that the better performance of Volkswagen Euro 6 cars had 
nothing to do with Dieselgate, but with better technology choices made before 
the scandal erupted.

“Volkswagen is not the carmaker producing the diesel cars with highest nitrogen 
oxides emissions and the failure to investigate other companies brings disgrace 
on the European regulatory system,” says Greg Archer. 

www.transportenvironment.org

 

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Re: [MBZ] VW

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 16:46:06 + (UTC) Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 wrote:

> NPR (of all sources) said the extra emissions from the cheater diesels
> over the life of all the cars will be less than the output of one coal
> fired power plant. Basically a drop in the bucket... -Curt

And think how they compare to a volcano or a forest fire!


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] VW

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

Is that a merkin or chinee CFPP?

--FT


On 9/13/16 12:46 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

NPR (of all sources) said the extra emissions from the cheater diesels over the 
life of all the cars will be less than the output of one coal fired power 
plant. Basically a drop in the bucket...
-Curt

   From: Mountain Man via Mercedes 
  To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Mountain Man 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 11:45 AM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] VW

Gerry wrote:

VW Dieselgate engineer sings like a canary...

Very interesting story - thanks!

Is there any ability to quantify the amount of emissions bad stuff
that went in to our atmosphere?  That is, emissions outside the
state/federal requirements?  Maybe the defeat only allowed emissions
equal to one car in a hundred cars, i.e. indecipherable.

Perhaps instead of fines and punishment, the VW Dieselgate design team
should be required to sing as federal employees for their punishment.
Their punishment would be to innovate using their defeat mechanism
design skills that defeated the regulations to see other defeat
mechanisms that are probably being used by other companies, i.e. Get
Smart - employ innovation instead of trying to punish/control
multi-national behemoths.  Control of multi-national behemoths
requires a greater innovation than bureaucracy can ever muster - we
the people still rule!
mao

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Re: [MBZ] VW

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

VW drivers have been injuring bikers??
Gee, I hope Curt is behaving himself.

RB


On 13/09/2016 2:39 PM, dan--- via Mercedes wrote:

If it’s any consolation there are lawmakers in a number of states attempting to 
pass laws to allow fining or ticketing these idiots when they do this.  Some 
pretty interesting stories about how they have injured bikers and others with 
this stupidity.

Dan



On Sep 13, 2016, at 3:25 PM, Kevin Kraly via Mercedes  
wrote:

And this would be equal to how many old MB Diesels? I'm sure that the emissions from one 
over fueled Diesel pickup "Rollin' coal" would blow my little 2014 Beetle TDI 
out of the water!!
Kevin in Hillsboro, Oregon

Sent from my cell



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Re: [MBZ] VW

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

As with most goobermnt threats AFTER the original sending the Marines to 
Tripoli, much ado about nothing.


VW shoulda threatened to pull out of the NA market, sued the US Goober 
over false regulations and whatever else the shyster could dream up.  
Maybe they even could have gotten Merkel to invade or threaten to invade 
the USA until the goobers back down.   In other words, do their own 
version of much ado about nothing until the goobers backed down.



Kevin Kraly via Mercedes 
September 13, 2016 at 2:25 PM
And this would be equal to how many old MB Diesels? I'm sure that the 
emissions from one over fueled Diesel pickup "Rollin' coal" would blow 
my little 2014 Beetle TDI out of the water!!

Kevin in Hillsboro, Oregon



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Re: [MBZ] VW

[dan--- via Mercedes]

If it’s any consolation there are lawmakers in a number of states attempting to 
pass laws to allow fining or ticketing these idiots when they do this.  Some 
pretty interesting stories about how they have injured bikers and others with 
this stupidity.

Dan


> On Sep 13, 2016, at 3:25 PM, Kevin Kraly via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> And this would be equal to how many old MB Diesels? I'm sure that the 
> emissions from one over fueled Diesel pickup "Rollin' coal" would blow my 
> little 2014 Beetle TDI out of the water!! 
> Kevin in Hillsboro, Oregon
> 
> Sent from my cell   
> 


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Re: [MBZ] VW

[Kevin Kraly via Mercedes]

And this would be equal to how many old MB Diesels? I'm sure that the emissions 
from one over fueled Diesel pickup "Rollin' coal" would blow my little 2014 
Beetle TDI out of the water!! 
Kevin in Hillsboro, Oregon

Sent from my cell   

> On Sep 13, 2016, at 9:46 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> NPR (of all sources) said the extra emissions from the cheater diesels over 
> the life of all the cars will be less than the output of one coal fired power 
> plant. Basically a drop in the bucket...
> -Curt
> 
>  From: Mountain Man via Mercedes 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List  
> Cc: Mountain Man 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 11:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] VW
> 
> Gerry wrote:
>> VW Dieselgate engineer sings like a canary...
> 
> Very interesting story - thanks!
> 
> Is there any ability to quantify the amount of emissions bad stuff
> that went in to our atmosphere?  That is, emissions outside the
> state/federal requirements?  Maybe the defeat only allowed emissions
> equal to one car in a hundred cars, i.e. indecipherable.
> 
> Perhaps instead of fines and punishment, the VW Dieselgate design team
> should be required to sing as federal employees for their punishment.
> Their punishment would be to innovate using their defeat mechanism
> design skills that defeated the regulations to see other defeat
> mechanisms that are probably being used by other companies, i.e. Get
> Smart - employ innovation instead of trying to punish/control
> multi-national behemoths.  Control of multi-national behemoths
> requires a greater innovation than bureaucracy can ever muster - we
> the people still rule!
> mao
> 
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> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] VW

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

NPR (of all sources) said the extra emissions from the cheater diesels over the 
life of all the cars will be less than the output of one coal fired power 
plant. Basically a drop in the bucket...
-Curt

  From: Mountain Man via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Cc: Mountain Man 
 Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 11:45 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] VW
   
Gerry wrote:
> VW Dieselgate engineer sings like a canary...

Very interesting story - thanks!

Is there any ability to quantify the amount of emissions bad stuff
that went in to our atmosphere?  That is, emissions outside the
state/federal requirements?  Maybe the defeat only allowed emissions
equal to one car in a hundred cars, i.e. indecipherable.

Perhaps instead of fines and punishment, the VW Dieselgate design team
should be required to sing as federal employees for their punishment.
Their punishment would be to innovate using their defeat mechanism
design skills that defeated the regulations to see other defeat
mechanisms that are probably being used by other companies, i.e. Get
Smart - employ innovation instead of trying to punish/control
multi-national behemoths.  Control of multi-national behemoths
requires a greater innovation than bureaucracy can ever muster - we
the people still rule!
mao

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Re: [MBZ] VW

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Gerry wrote:
> VW Dieselgate engineer sings like a canary...

Very interesting story - thanks!

Is there any ability to quantify the amount of emissions bad stuff
that went in to our atmosphere?  That is, emissions outside the
state/federal requirements?  Maybe the defeat only allowed emissions
equal to one car in a hundred cars, i.e. indecipherable.

Perhaps instead of fines and punishment, the VW Dieselgate design team
should be required to sing as federal employees for their punishment.
Their punishment would be to innovate using their defeat mechanism
design skills that defeated the regulations to see other defeat
mechanisms that are probably being used by other companies, i.e. Get
Smart - employ innovation instead of trying to punish/control
multi-national behemoths.  Control of multi-national behemoths
requires a greater innovation than bureaucracy can ever muster - we
the people still rule!
mao

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[MBZ] VW

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

VW Dieselgate engineer sings like a canary: Entire design team was in on it – 
not just a couple of bad apples

A Volkswagen engineer has agreed to spill the details of his involvement in the 
VW emissions scandal.

Former engineer James Robert Liang took a plea deal with the US federal 
government to cooperate with its ongoing investigation of how the German 
carmaker cheated American emissions tests and passed off its "clean diesel" 
engines as meeting state and government clean air standards.

While VW executives have claimed that the use of a defeat device to 
artificially limit emissions during tests was the work of a "couple of software 
engineers," Liang's plea deal shows that the conspiracy dates back roughly a 
decade and has roots in the team that designed the engines.

In other words, Liang claims the design team was in on it, not just a couple of 
bad apples.

Liang told the government that in 2006, engineers knew the EA 189 diesel engine 
would not be able to meet clean air emission standards on its own. Rather than 
attempt to redesign the engine, he and other members of the design team 
deliberately cheated the testing system.

"According to Liang's admissions, when he and his co-conspirators realized that 
they could not design a diesel engine that would meet the stricter US emissions 
standards, they designed and implemented software to recognize whether a 
vehicle was undergoing standard US emissions testing on a dynamometer or being 
driven on the road under normal driving conditions (the defeat device), in 
order to cheat the emissions tests," the US Department of Justice (DoJ) said in 
announcing the plea deal.

He said that the device was used to get the clean air certification on VW's 
"clean diesel" models from 2009 to 2016, and that the group continued to lie 
about the emissions output of the engines even after the US government began 
its investigation.

Liang, who will continue to help the government in its investigation as part of 
the deal, pled guilty to three counts of conspiracy: to commit wire fraud, 
defraud the federal government, and violate the Clean Air Act. He faces a 
maximum of 5 years behind bars, 3 years supervised release, and a maximum fine 
of $250,000.



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Re: [MBZ] vw dissel

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

I think it was yellow, but it may be red.



But was it "green"?

--BB

On 5/9/16 8:01 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes wrote:

A report from the field from SWMBO:

"Remember one time early on when I started to work for the LA dept 
one of the students had a new VW bug...one of the new models?  Up 
until that time she drove her mom's old model MB although I do not 
think I knew her very well at that point.  Anyway she graduated in 
2001 or 2002. Before she graduated she gave me a ride in her new 
bug with the moon roof etc. because I told her I liked it.  Well 
she posted a photo of her odometer and it now has 250,000 miles on 
it. She said she and her parents went for a test drive in it 15 
years ago and it had 11 miles on it.  She still loves the car.   I 
also remember it was a diesel and I had a diesel in the design 
parking lot."


So it seems at least one new beetle Diesel has covered 250k and the 
owner is still happy.



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--
--BB


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Re: [MBZ] vw dissel

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Why is this a big surprise? My Jetta has 270,000 miles and is still going 
strong. Other than the sheet metal a Beatle and a Jetta are the same car...
Loads of TDIs go over 400,000 miles.
-Curt

  From: Curly McLain via Mercedes 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Cc: Curly McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Monday, May 9, 2016 8:01 AM
 Subject: [MBZ] vw dissel
   
A report from the field from SWMBO:

"Remember one time early on when I started to work for the LA dept 
one of the students had a new VW bug...one of the new models?  Up 
until that time she drove her mom's old model MB although I do not 
think I knew her very well at that point.  Anyway she graduated in 
2001 or 2002. Before she graduated she gave me a ride in her new bug 
with the moon roof etc. because I told her I liked it.  Well she 
posted a photo of her odometer and it now has 250,000 miles on it. 
She said she and her parents went for a test drive in it 15 years ago 
and it had 11 miles on it.  She still loves the car.  I also 
remember it was a diesel and I had a diesel in the design parking 
lot."

So it seems at least one new beetle Diesel has covered 250k and the 
owner is still happy.


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Re: [MBZ] vw dissel

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

But was it "green"?

--BB

On 5/9/16 8:01 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes wrote:

A report from the field from SWMBO:

"Remember one time early on when I started to work for the LA dept one 
of the students had a new VW bug...one of the new models?  Up until 
that time she drove her mom's old model MB although I do not think I 
knew her very well at that point.  Anyway she graduated in 2001 or 
2002. Before she graduated she gave me a ride in her new bug with the 
moon roof etc. because I told her I liked it.  Well she posted a photo 
of her odometer and it now has 250,000 miles on it. She said she and 
her parents went for a test drive in it 15 years ago and it had 11 
miles on it.  She still loves the car.   I also remember it was a 
diesel and I had a diesel in the design parking lot."


So it seems at least one new beetle Diesel has covered 250k and the 
owner is still happy.



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--
--BB


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[MBZ] vw dissel

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

A report from the field from SWMBO:

"Remember one time early on when I started to work for the LA dept 
one of the students had a new VW bug...one of the new models?  Up 
until that time she drove her mom's old model MB although I do not 
think I knew her very well at that point.  Anyway she graduated in 
2001 or 2002. Before she graduated she gave me a ride in her new bug 
with the moon roof etc. because I told her I liked it.  Well she 
posted a photo of her odometer and it now has 250,000 miles on it. 
She said she and her parents went for a test drive in it 15 years ago 
and it had 11 miles on it.  She still loves the car.   I also 
remember it was a diesel and I had a diesel in the design parking 
lot."


So it seems at least one new beetle Diesel has covered 250k and the 
owner is still happy.



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Re: [MBZ] VW to offer to buy back nearly 500,000 U.S. diesel cars

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Tell us more about these techniques for certain types of green plants

--R

On 4/25/16 3:55 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:

‎Curly sez:

KISS. What happens when there is >more CO2? More green living
things grow, they USE the co2 >and EXHALE O2.

That is correct. In my youth I studied indoor growing techniques for certain 
leafy green plant materials. Additional CO2 is one of the tricks to accelerated 
growth. Seems to me, if plants are designed to respire more CO2 than is 
currently available in our atmosphere, at one time, perhaps in the distant 
past, there WAS more CO2 in the atmosphere. And, it most certainly was NOT a 
product of human activity.

  
Rick

Just an observation, from an uneducated rube.
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Re: [MBZ] VW to offer to buy back nearly 500,000 U.S. diesel cars

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Karl Wittnebel wrote:
> > I have begun to think with more immediacy about the possibility of
> > catastrophic sea level rise within my children's lifetimes however,
> > which seems driven by CO2. A recent paper by James Hansen indicates
> > this may in fact be a possibility.
> 
> PLEASE DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT JAMES HANSEN WRITES!!!
> He is a rabid AGW proponent whose motto appears to be, "Don't confuse me
> with the facts, my mind is made up!"
> I could go on at length about this, but I don't have time.
> Craig
~~
I agree. IMHO Freeman Dyson, a well respected physicist at Princeton U, has 
done a more logical analysis of this subject. Although his contention that CO-2 
generated by fossil fuels is unconditionally good for the worlds environment 
may be wrong, his analysis of the subject in general is accurate:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Freeman Dyson is a physicist who has been teaching at the Institute for 
Advanced Study in Princeton since Albert Einstein was there. When Einstein died 
in 1955.

When the global-warming movement came along, a lot of people wondered why he 
didn’t come along with it. The reason he’s a skeptic is simple, the 89-year-old 
Dyson said when I phoned him.

“I think any good scientist ought to be a skeptic,” Dyson said.

…

Then in the late 1970s, he got involved with early research on climate change 
at the Institute for Energy Analysis in Oak Ridge, Tenn.

That research, which involved scientists from many disciplines, was based on 
experimentation. The scientists studied such questions as how atmospheric 
carbon dioxide interacts with plant life and the role of clouds in warming.

But that approach lost out to the computer-modeling approach favored by climate 
scientists. And that approach was flawed from the beginning, Dyson said.

“I just think they don’t understand the climate,” he said of climatologists. 
“Their computer models are full of fudge factors.”

A major fudge factor concerns the role of clouds. The greenhouse effect of 
carbon dioxide on its own is limited. To get to the apocalyptic projections 
trumpeted by Al Gore and company, the models have to include assumptions that 
CO-2 will cause clouds to form in a way that produces more warming.

“The models are extremely oversimplified,” he said. “They don’t represent the 
clouds in detail at all. They simply use a fudge factor to represent the 
clouds.”

Dyson said his skepticism about those computer models was borne out by recent 
reports of a study by Ed Hawkins of the University of Reading in Great Britain 
that showed global temperatures were flat between 2000 and 2010 — even though 
we humans poured record amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere during that decade.

That was vindication for a man who was termed “a civil heretic” in a New York 
Times Magazine article on his contrarian views. Dyson embraces that label, with 
its implication that what he opposes is a religious movement. So does his 
fellow Princeton physicist and fellow skeptic, William Happer.

“There are people who just need a cause that’s bigger than themselves,” said 
Happer. “Then they can feel virtuous and say other people are not virtuous.”

To show how uncivil this crowd can get, Happer e-mailed me an article about an 
Australian professor who proposes — quite seriously — the death penalty for 
heretics such as Dyson. As did Galileo, they can get a reprieve if they recant.

I hope that guy never gets to hear Dyson’s most heretical assertion: 
Atmospheric CO2 may actually be improving the environment.

“It’s certainly true that carbon dioxide is good for vegetation,” Dyson said. 
“About 15 percent of agricultural yields are due to CO2 we put in the 
atmosphere. From that point of view, it’s a real plus to burn coal and oil.”

In fact, there’s more solid evidence for the beneficial effects of CO2 than the 
negative effects, he said. So why does the public hear only one side of this 
debate? Because the media do an awful job of reporting it.

“They’re absolutely lousy,” he said of American journalists. “That’s true also 
in Europe. I don’t know why they’ve been brainwashed.”

I know why: They’re lazy. Instead of digging into the details, most journalists 
are content to repeat that mantra about “consensus” among climate scientists.

The problem, said Dyson, is that the consensus is based on those computer 
models. Computers are great for analyzing what happened in the past, he said, 
but not so good at figuring out what will happen in the future. But a lot of 
scientists have built their careers on them. Hence the hatred for dissenters.

Full story continues on this link:

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/04/05/freeman-dyson-speaks-out-about-climate-science-and-fudge/

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Re: [MBZ] VW to offer to buy back nearly 500,000 U.S. diesel cars

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

‎Curly sez:
>KISS. What happens when there is >more CO2? More green living 
>things grow, they USE the co2 >and EXHALE O2.

That is correct. In my youth I studied indoor growing techniques for certain 
leafy green plant materials. Additional CO2 is one of the tricks to accelerated 
growth. Seems to me, if plants are designed to respire more CO2 than is 
currently available in our atmosphere, at one time, perhaps in the distant 
past, there WAS more CO2 in the atmosphere. And, it most certainly was NOT a 
product of human activity.

 
Rick 
Just an observation, from an uneducated rube. 
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Re: [MBZ] VW to offer to buy back nearly 500,000 U.S. diesel cars

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 09:51:42 -0700 Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes
 wrote:


 I have begun to think with more immediacy about the possibility of
 catastrophic sea level rise within my children's lifetimes however,
 which seems driven by CO2. A recent paper by James Hansen indicates

 > this may in fact be a possibility.

PLEASE DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT JAMES HANSEN WRITES!!!

He is a rabid AGW proponent whose motto appears to be, "Don't confuse me
with the facts, my mind is made up!"

I could go on at length about this, but I don't have time.

Craig


+1   Craig is a real scientist.  Just because hansen worked for NASA 
does not make him a scientist nor and "expert"


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Re: [MBZ] VW to offer to buy back nearly 500,000 U.S. diesel cars

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

Bummer, pillary and the embedded islamists will "destabilize 
civilization" long before anything to do with CO2 does.They are 
well on the way now.   Massive invasions have already happened.


KISS.  What happens when there is  more CO2?   More green living 
things grow, they USE the co2 and EXHALE O2.  It has happened since 
the beginning, and will go on with or without pipples.


BTW, Hansen was wrong, has been discredited, and IS a wacko.


Yes of course and they are demonically fast cars until the batteries
overheat.

I guess my point is that if I felt that bad about a bit more nitrogen
oxides coming out of the vw tailpipe, I would never drive a 123 diesel. Or
a 606. Because they dwarf the NO emission of the vw. The vw exhaust smells
like flowers, at least at idle. It has no asthma inducing soot at all
either.

I have begun to think with more immediacy about the possibility of
catastrophic sea level rise within my children's lifetimes however, which
seems driven by CO2. A recent paper by James Hansen indicates this may in
fact be a possibility. Sandy only hit new York because the Atlantic was 3
degrees warmer than usual, which is predicted by their model. All this
could be happening very quickly, and it would likely destabilize
civilization. Of course it might not also, but if there is even a realistic
chance that it could, and the answer involves smaller cars, then fine with
me, as long as everyone else does it also, so I do not end up the only one
dead at the traffic light. Go karts are super fun. Teslas do very little
about this problem.

Link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vhdkscnzrw5tpnf/acp-16-3761-2016.pdf?dl=0

And


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Re: [MBZ] VW to offer to buy back nearly 500,000 U.S. diesel cars

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 09:51:42 -0700 Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes
 wrote:

> I have begun to think with more immediacy about the possibility of
> catastrophic sea level rise within my children's lifetimes however,
> which seems driven by CO2. A recent paper by James Hansen indicates
> this may in fact be a possibility.

PLEASE DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT JAMES HANSEN WRITES!!!

He is a rabid AGW proponent whose motto appears to be, "Don't confuse me
with the facts, my mind is made up!"

I could go on at length about this, but I don't have time.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] VW to offer to buy back nearly 500,000 U.S. diesel cars

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Yes of course and they are demonically fast cars until the batteries
overheat.

I guess my point is that if I felt that bad about a bit more nitrogen
oxides coming out of the vw tailpipe, I would never drive a 123 diesel. Or
a 606. Because they dwarf the NO emission of the vw. The vw exhaust smells
like flowers, at least at idle. It has no asthma inducing soot at all
either.

I have begun to think with more immediacy about the possibility of
catastrophic sea level rise within my children's lifetimes however, which
seems driven by CO2. A recent paper by James Hansen indicates this may in
fact be a possibility. Sandy only hit new York because the Atlantic was 3
degrees warmer than usual, which is predicted by their model. All this
could be happening very quickly, and it would likely destabilize
civilization. Of course it might not also, but if there is even a realistic
chance that it could, and the answer involves smaller cars, then fine with
me, as long as everyone else does it also, so I do not end up the only one
dead at the traffic light. Go karts are super fun. Teslas do very little
about this problem.

Link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vhdkscnzrw5tpnf/acp-16-3761-2016.pdf?dl=0

And

https://youtu.be/JP-cRqCQRc8
On Apr 25, 2016 8:43 AM, "OK Don via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> The difference is that the Teslas don't concentrate their nitrogen oxides,
> etc. in the cities - it's the "not in my back yard" effect. You've moved
> the source of pollution to lesser populated areas.
>
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 8:49 AM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes I get the impression we are headed toward radically different cars.
> > Teslas put as much carbon into the atmosphere as any other high economy
> > car. The only way to reduce that is to lower the weight of the vehicle,
> or
> > increase passengers per vehicle. I would actually ride a faired recumbent
> > trike to work and back daily were it not for fear of being crushed in
> what
> > would otherwise be  a fender bender in a regular car. But if all cars
> > weighed 100lb, the playing field would level out a lot. I see electric
> > bikes quite often around here, which have to be pretty efficient.
> > On Apr 25, 2016 6:28 AM, "Peter Frederick via Mercedes" <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> --
> OK Don
>
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
>
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
>
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] VW to offer to buy back nearly 500,000 U.S. diesel cars

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

OK Don wrote:
> You've moved the source of pollution to lesser populated areas.

Yeah but...
Centralized production, looong distribution line losses - perhaps
these should be factored or better understood in our quest to lay
blame against NIMBY.
Perhaps more local and less centralized production, i.e. Andrew-style
(thanks, Andrew - we love your style, really) localized sun / wind
power with zero or small distribution and let our appliances die until
low voltage appliances can be INNOVATE - there's that archaic concept
again... innovation - HA!
mao

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Re: [MBZ] VW to offer to buy back nearly 500,000 U.S. diesel cars

[OK Don via Mercedes]

The difference is that the Teslas don't concentrate their nitrogen oxides,
etc. in the cities - it's the "not in my back yard" effect. You've moved
the source of pollution to lesser populated areas.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 8:49 AM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Yes I get the impression we are headed toward radically different cars.
> Teslas put as much carbon into the atmosphere as any other high economy
> car. The only way to reduce that is to lower the weight of the vehicle, or
> increase passengers per vehicle. I would actually ride a faired recumbent
> trike to work and back daily were it not for fear of being crushed in what
> would otherwise be  a fender bender in a regular car. But if all cars
> weighed 100lb, the playing field would level out a lot. I see electric
> bikes quite often around here, which have to be pretty efficient.
> On Apr 25, 2016 6:28 AM, "Peter Frederick via Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>
>
-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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