Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Damn, between the water and the CO2 and methane I am making from my beer I am killing the planet. Where can I get me summadat money to deal with my global climate disrupting brewing and drinking? I figure $750k would be enough. --R On 11/13/14 5:04 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: Producing beer consumes about 20 times more water than fracking. We can argue about best use of water all day long. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Your stimulus check is in the mail.. didn't you get it yet? ;))) On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Damn, between the water and the CO2 and methane I am making from my beer I am killing the planet. Where can I get me summadat money to deal with my global climate disrupting brewing and drinking? I figure $750k would be enough. --R On 11/13/14 5:04 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: Producing beer consumes about 20 times more water than fracking. We can argue about best use of water all day long. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
I need to declare myself a turd-wurld nation then I'm sure it will be here. --R On 11/15/14 3:51 PM, G Mann wrote: Your stimulus check is in the mail.. didn't you get it yet? ;))) On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Damn, between the water and the CO2 and methane I am making from my beer I am killing the planet. Where can I get me summadat money to deal with my global climate disrupting brewing and drinking? I figure $750k would be enough. --R On 11/13/14 5:04 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: Producing beer consumes about 20 times more water than fracking. We can argue about best use of water all day long. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: Outdoor cats do a lot more damage to birds than windmills, I imagine... But cats help out with natural selection. I imagine getting whacked by a 500mph rotor tip is too random to do any culling. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
I think usually cats get eaten by bald eagles, and not vice versa? Max Dillon, Charleston SC Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: Outdoor cats do a lot more damage to birds than windmills, I imagine... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
I think usually cats get eaten by bald eagles, and not vice versa? Max Dillon, Charleston SC Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: Outdoor cats do a lot more damage to birds than windmills, I imagine... I've not heard about cats, but li'l yapyap dogs are favored by eagles ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
The hawks around my house prefer squirrels. Dan Sent from my iPad On Nov 14, 2014, at 8:42 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I think usually cats get eaten by bald eagles, and not vice versa? Max Dillon, Charleston SC Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: Outdoor cats do a lot more damage to birds than windmills, I imagine... I've not heard about cats, but li'l yapyap dogs are favored by eagles ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Coupla years ago right about now I was riding my bike on a back road and heard this commotion of crows so stopped to see what it was. There was a bald eagle sitting out in a field, all the crows were mobbing it. The eagle kept trying to take off but it had something largish and black and would not drop it. Finally after 3 or 4 tries it got airborne and flew over me, looked like it was carrying a cat. I heard something behind be in the woods on the other side of the road and there was a flock of turkeys. They scattered when the eagle flew over. --R On 11/14/14 8:42 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes wrote: I think usually cats get eaten by bald eagles, and not vice versa? Max Dillon, Charleston SC Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: Outdoor cats do a lot more damage to birds than windmills, I imagine... I've not heard about cats, but li'l yapyap dogs are favored by eagles ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
http://okchomesellers.com/random-thoughts/eagles-vs-crows-air-combat/ Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote: Coupla years ago right about now I was riding my bike on a back road and heard this commotion of crows so stopped to see what it was. There was a bald eagle sitting out in a field, all the crows were mobbing it. The eagle kept trying to take off but it had something largish and black and would not drop it. Finally after 3 or 4 tries it got airborne and flew over me, looked like it was carrying a cat. I heard something behind be in the woods on the other side of the road and there was a flock of turkeys. They scattered when the eagle flew over. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
When I lived in NW DC, a dead bird fell from the sky into the alley about 10' from where I was standing just as an ominous shadow passed overhead. I went inside the house for about 40 minutes, and when I returned to the alley the bird carcass had vanished. Must have been a red tailed hawk, which were endemic in the urban forest where I lived. On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: http://okchomesellers.com/random-thoughts/eagles-vs-crows-air-combat/ Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote: Coupla years ago right about now I was riding my bike on a back road and heard this commotion of crows so stopped to see what it was. There was a bald eagle sitting out in a field, all the crows were mobbing it. The eagle kept trying to take off but it had something largish and black and would not drop it. Finally after 3 or 4 tries it got airborne and flew over me, looked like it was carrying a cat. I heard something behind be in the woods on the other side of the road and there was a flock of turkeys. They scattered when the eagle flew over. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
In this part of Florida turkey vultures are all over. While not attractive birds, they assure that the streets and other areas are cleaned of all sorts of dead animal with amazing efficiency. It's not uncommon to see a road kill pulled off to the side of the road in the morning and by afternoon all traces of it have disappeared. Dan Sent from my iPad On Nov 14, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: When I lived in NW DC, a dead bird fell from the sky into the alley about 10' from where I was standing just as an ominous shadow passed overhead. I went inside the house for about 40 minutes, and when I returned to the alley the bird carcass had vanished. Must have been a red tailed hawk, which were endemic in the urban forest where I lived. On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: http://okchomesellers.com/random-thoughts/eagles-vs-crows-air-combat/ Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote: Coupla years ago right about now I was riding my bike on a back road and heard this commotion of crows so stopped to see what it was. There was a bald eagle sitting out in a field, all the crows were mobbing it. The eagle kept trying to take off but it had something largish and black and would not drop it. Finally after 3 or 4 tries it got airborne and flew over me, looked like it was carrying a cat. I heard something behind be in the woods on the other side of the road and there was a flock of turkeys. They scattered when the eagle flew over. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
I was walking with Andrew one day and I saw a dead bird. I said, Andrew, look at the dead bird. He looked up at the saky, and said, Where? --R On 11/14/14 11:24 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: When I lived in NW DC, a dead bird fell from the sky into the alley about 10' from where I was standing just as an ominous shadow passed overhead. I went inside the house for about 40 minutes, and when I returned to the alley the bird carcass had vanished. Must have been a red tailed hawk, which were endemic in the urban forest where I lived. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
I wonder - will they do us such a favor for politicians? Or is their flesh too unpalatable? On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: In this part of Florida turkey vultures are all over. While not attractive birds, they assure that the streets and other areas are cleaned of all sorts of dead animal with amazing efficiency. It's not uncommon to see a road kill pulled off to the side of the road in the morning and by afternoon all traces of it have disappeared. Dan Sent from my iPad On Nov 14, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: When I lived in NW DC, a dead bird fell from the sky into the alley about 10' from where I was standing just as an ominous shadow passed overhead. I went inside the house for about 40 minutes, and when I returned to the alley the bird carcass had vanished. Must have been a red tailed hawk, which were endemic in the urban forest where I lived. On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: http://okchomesellers.com/random-thoughts/eagles-vs-crows-air-combat/ Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote: Coupla years ago right about now I was riding my bike on a back road and heard this commotion of crows so stopped to see what it was. There was a bald eagle sitting out in a field, all the crows were mobbing it. The eagle kept trying to take off but it had something largish and black and would not drop it. Finally after 3 or 4 tries it got airborne and flew over me, looked like it was carrying a cat. I heard something behind be in the woods on the other side of the road and there was a flock of turkeys. They scattered when the eagle flew over. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Hey Rich, wrong Andrew, although my standing offer of one (1) complementary b**r is still in effect as an incentive to get to know me better. This offer valid in the Washington, DC metropolitan area. On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder - will they do us such a favor for politicians? Or is their flesh too unpalatable? On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: In this part of Florida turkey vultures are all over. While not attractive birds, they assure that the streets and other areas are cleaned of all sorts of dead animal with amazing efficiency. It's not uncommon to see a road kill pulled off to the side of the road in the morning and by afternoon all traces of it have disappeared. Dan Sent from my iPad On Nov 14, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: When I lived in NW DC, a dead bird fell from the sky into the alley about 10' from where I was standing just as an ominous shadow passed overhead. I went inside the house for about 40 minutes, and when I returned to the alley the bird carcass had vanished. Must have been a red tailed hawk, which were endemic in the urban forest where I lived. On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: http://okchomesellers.com/random-thoughts/eagles-vs-crows-air-combat/ Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote: Coupla years ago right about now I was riding my bike on a back road and heard this commotion of crows so stopped to see what it was. There was a bald eagle sitting out in a field, all the crows were mobbing it. The eagle kept trying to take off but it had something largish and black and would not drop it. Finally after 3 or 4 tries it got airborne and flew over me, looked like it was carrying a cat. I heard something behind be in the woods on the other side of the road and there was a flock of turkeys. They scattered when the eagle flew over. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Saky? Isn't that spelled Saki? I was walking with Andrew one day and I saw a dead bird. I said, Andrew, look at the dead bird. He looked up at the saky, and said, Where? --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Gotta shoot the pols first. My friend who ran a grain elevator in the 80s (farm crisis era) said he wanted open season, no bag limit on lawyers. That would take care of most of the pol problem too. We'd be left with grassley, whom Bruce Braley made a big deal about since grassley was not a lawyer, and a few others who are not lawyers. I bet that would clear out close to 500 of the 545 problems 435 + 100 + 9 + 1 Vultures don't kill they prey. Eagles hawks and falcons do! I'd bet turkey vultures would clean up the leftovers. I wonder - will they do us such a favor for politicians? Or is their flesh too unpalatable? On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: In this part of Florida turkey vultures are all over. While not attractive birds, they assure that the streets and other areas are cleaned of all sorts of dead animal with amazing efficiency. It's not uncommon to see a road kill pulled off to the side of the road in the morning and by afternoon all traces of it have disappeared. Dan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Not all lawyers are bad, and not all non lawyers are good. On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Saky? Isn't that spelled Saki? I was walking with Andrew one day and I saw a dead bird. I said, Andrew, look at the dead bird. He looked up at the saky, and said, Where? --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Not sure why, but not nearly so many lawyers in politics these days - at least not in Canada. Used to be that almost all of the politicians were lawyers. One of the reasons was the it was relatively easy for a lawyer in a bigger firm to leave the practice and then to come back to it if they lost an election. RB who has never run for office and who does not work in a big firm On 14/11/2014 12:57 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes wrote: Gotta shoot the pols first. My friend who ran a grain elevator in the 80s (farm crisis era) said he wanted open season, no bag limit on lawyers. That would take care of most of the pol problem too. We'd be left with grassley, whom Bruce Braley made a big deal about since grassley was not a lawyer, and a few others who are not lawyers. I bet that would clear out close to 500 of the 545 problems 435 + 100 + 9 + 1 Vultures don't kill they prey. Eagles hawks and falcons do! I'd bet turkey vultures would clean up the leftovers. I wonder - will they do us such a favor for politicians? Or is their flesh too unpalatable? On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: In this part of Florida turkey vultures are all over. While not attractive birds, they assure that the streets and other areas are cleaned of all sorts of dead animal with amazing efficiency. It's not uncommon to see a road kill pulled off to the side of the road in the morning and by afternoon all traces of it have disappeared. Dan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
True, but there sure are a lot of questionable lawyers. RB who has to deal with them all the time On 14/11/2014 1:16 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: Not all lawyers are bad, and not all non lawyers are good. On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Saky? Isn't that spelled Saki? I was walking with Andrew one day and I saw a dead bird. I said, Andrew, look at the dead bird. He looked up at the saky, and said, Where? --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
lysdexic figners --R On 11/14/14 1:57 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes wrote: Saky? Isn't that spelled Saki? I was walking with Andrew one day and I saw a dead bird. I said, Andrew, look at the dead bird. He looked up at the saky, and said, Where? --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Dan wrote: ...turkey vultures ... they assure that the streets and other areas are cleaned of all sorts of dead animal with amazing efficiency. Send one up here to clean up two roadkill possum just down the street. Do possum roam this time of year for fun? Perhaps the other birds of prey in these parts are too cold to pick up dead junk. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
In the house one day we heard a loud bang. Turned out that a red tailed hawk chasing a bird crashed into a window. Both were gone but feathers and a spot on the window provided the evidence. Red tailed hawks are the only raptors around here except owls that hunt at night. Gerry Andrew Strasfogel wrote: When I lived in NW DC, a dead bird fell from the sky into the alley about 10' from where I was standing just as an ominous shadow passed overhead. I went inside the house for about 40 minutes, and when I returned to the alley the bird carcass had vanished. Must have been a red tailed hawk, which were endemic in the urban forest where I lived. On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: http://okchomesellers.com/random-thoughts/eagles-vs-crows-air-combat/ Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote: Coupla years ago right about now I was riding my bike on a back road and heard this commotion of crows so stopped to see what it was. There was a bald eagle sitting out in a field, all the crows were mobbing it. The eagle kept trying to take off but it had something largish and black and would not drop it. Finally after 3 or 4 tries it got airborne and flew over me, looked like it was carrying a cat. I heard something behind be in the woods on the other side of the road and there was a flock of turkeys. They scattered when the eagle flew over. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4213/8567 - Release Date: 11/13/14 -- arche...@embarqmail.com arche...@embarqmail.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
North Florida was poor during the early 1950s. Many chemistry majors couldn't afford beer so they made raisin jack**, poured it in the labs large polyethylene cylinders, and froze it in the lab refrigerators. After it was frozen, a layer of yeast cells, raisins, and anything else that happened to fall in was lifted out in one piece, and the raisin jack was ready. A Chinese cook and his family rented a closed restaurant and managed to survive by selling cheap but nourishing lunches to students. The cook bought an old car and students would occasionally see it stopped before dawn along country roads near town. They finally figured out that the mystery meat in his rice dishes, which were well disguised with Chinese sauce, was road kill. His business with students declined and he soon sold the restaurant to another Chinese family that improved it and is still in business AFAIK. The restaurant was about halfway between the courthouse and 13th Street on University Avenue. Gerry **Raisin jack was made by dumping a small box of raisins and two packs of dried yeast into a gallon jug of sweet cider. The chem students attached a cap and tube with the other end in a glass of water. When the bubbles per minute reached a precise number, the raisin jack had reached maximum power. .. Rich Thomas wrote: I was walking with Andrew one day and I saw a dead bird. I said, Andrew, look at the dead bird. He looked up at the saky, and said, Where? --R On 11/14/14 11:24 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: When I lived in NW DC, a dead bird fell from the sky into the alley about 10' from where I was standing just as an ominous shadow passed overhead. I went inside the house for about 40 minutes, and when I returned to the alley the bird carcass had vanished. Must have been a red tailed hawk, which were endemic in the urban forest where I lived. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4213/8567 - Release Date: 11/13/14 -- arche...@embarqmail.com arche...@embarqmail.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Back when wind was big the first time due to tax subsidies (MEOW as Jimmuh called it), I was tasked to study something called a superconducting magnetic energy storage system. This is basically a large supercooled metal donut into which electrical energy is injected, then it keeps flowing until pulled out. A very cold battery. I created a software simulation and ran various scenarios which basically showed it would not work, despite it seeming to be a good idea. Physics. Most such schemes try to violate The Laws even when they can be bent a bit with various clever tricks. --R (sent from my miniPad) On Nov 12, 2014, at 11:23 PM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I've followed all those possible storage modalities and I don't see great progress with them. Please edumacate me. Grant... Funny how the laws of physics, gravity and Basiat's The Law always catch up with those who try to break or bend them. Send me enough money and I will make a perpetual motion machine. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
If you could make enough power cheap enough making hydrogen would be worth it. In California they may end up using wind power to desalinate water... Curt Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
The only viable solution to over use of energy, it to run out of it and revert to the stone age. So, Andrew, throw away your Ipod, your computer access, all your electrical devices, park your Prius [forever] and learn to kill tasty animals and build fire. All efforts otherwise are futile, accept your fate. Imagine the effect of only one EMP delivered at high altitude over the East Coast. All power grids are now controlled by computers, which are most likely fried by EMP. The last time we had a solar plasma flair the power lines and telegraph lines were melted off the poles.. Feel fragile yet? I offer this to all those who love to worry about things they have no control over.. it helps occupy their minds... ;)) Grant... On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: If you could make enough power cheap enough making hydrogen would be worth it. In California they may end up using wind power to desalinate water... Curt Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
While you jeer, sneer and cast corrosive witticisms from the sidelines, solar and wind power are growing by leaps and bounds, here and abroad. The price of PV continues to plummet, and utilities are warming to the idea of distributed generation (rooftop and community solar and wind). Lots of great things are going on, and it's hard to keep up. It's not my job to educate you, however. On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 11:23 AM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The only viable solution to over use of energy, it to run out of it and revert to the stone age. So, Andrew, throw away your Ipod, your computer access, all your electrical devices, park your Prius [forever] and learn to kill tasty animals and build fire. All efforts otherwise are futile, accept your fate. Imagine the effect of only one EMP delivered at high altitude over the East Coast. All power grids are now controlled by computers, which are most likely fried by EMP. The last time we had a solar plasma flair the power lines and telegraph lines were melted off the poles.. Feel fragile yet? I offer this to all those who love to worry about things they have no control over.. it helps occupy their minds... ;)) Grant... On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: If you could make enough power cheap enough making hydrogen would be worth it. In California they may end up using wind power to desalinate water... Curt Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 10:37 AM To: G Mann; Mercedes Discussion List Reply To: Andrew Strasfogel Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines The price of PV continues to plummet, and utilities are warming to the idea of distributed generation What is PV? Rick Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Solar. PhotoVoltaic. Dan On Nov 13, 2014, at 11:46 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: : Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 10:37 AM To: G Mann; Mercedes Discussion List Reply To: Andrew Strasfogel Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines The price of PV continues to plummet, and utilities are warming to the idea of distributed generation What is PV? Rick Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Polyvinyl as in PVC Or premature ventricular as in PVC (premature ventricular contractions) I think andy means photo voltaic as is solar cells Navy undoubtedly has other meanings for PV : Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 10:37 AM To: G Mann; Mercedes Discussion List Reply To: Andrew Strasfogel Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines The price of PV continues to plummet, and utilities are warming to the idea of distributed generation What is PV? Rick Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Be nice now. Wind and PV and other alternatives have a place where they make technical and economic sense, without artificial economics (and don't go off on the all bidness as a straw dog); otherwise, it is all apples and oranges and peaches. Spain almost went broke (or they did until the Germans bailed them out) over their expenditures on wind and solar, so there is that data point. The Brits are pissing off a good part of the population with wind machines whumpwhumpwhumpwhump --R On 11/13/14 11:37 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: While you jeer, sneer and cast corrosive witticisms from the sidelines, solar and wind power are growing by leaps and bounds, here and abroad. The price of PV continues to plummet, and utilities are warming to the idea of distributed generation (rooftop and community solar and wind). Lots of great things are going on, and it's hard to keep up. It's not my job to educate you, however. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
But they will benefit with cleaner air and better health. On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Be nice now. Wind and PV and other alternatives have a place where they make technical and economic sense, without artificial economics (and don't go off on the all bidness as a straw dog); otherwise, it is all apples and oranges and peaches. Spain almost went broke (or they did until the Germans bailed them out) over their expenditures on wind and solar, so there is that data point. The Brits are pissing off a good part of the population with wind machines whumpwhumpwhumpwhump --R On 11/13/14 11:37 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: While you jeer, sneer and cast corrosive witticisms from the sidelines, solar and wind power are growing by leaps and bounds, here and abroad. The price of PV continues to plummet, and utilities are warming to the idea of distributed generation (rooftop and community solar and wind). Lots of great things are going on, and it's hard to keep up. It's not my job to educate you, however. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Nobody calle me Andy and gets away with it, except for college and pre-college friends. On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 12:50 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Polyvinyl as in PVC Or premature ventricular as in PVC (premature ventricular contractions) I think andy means photo voltaic as is solar cells Navy undoubtedly has other meanings for PV : Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 10:37 AM To: G Mann; Mercedes Discussion List Reply To: Andrew Strasfogel Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines The price of PV continues to plummet, and utilities are warming to the idea of distributed generation What is PV? Rick Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
One consideration that seems mostly forgotten is the environmental impact of wind turbines AND fields of solar panels (visual, wild life deaths, noise - yes wind turbines make noise, etc.). There are a thousands of acres of both in the desert north of Los Angeles and they are a blight. Not to mention that due to transmission losses they have to be sited somewhat near the end users. SO we all get the impacts. AT CL500 On Nov 13, 2014, at 9:05 AM, mercedes-requ...@okiebenz.com wrote: From: Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines Date: November 13, 2014 8:37:27 AM PST While you jeer, sneer and cast corrosive witticisms from the sidelines, solar and wind power are growing by leaps and bounds, here and abroad. The price of PV continues to plummet, and utilities are warming to the idea of distributed generation (rooftop and community solar and wind). Lots of great things are going on, and it's hard to keep up. It's not my job to educate you, however. On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 11:23 AM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The only viable solution to over use of energy, it to run out of it and revert to the stone age. So, Andrew, throw away your Ipod, your computer access, all your electrical devices, park your Prius [forever] and learn to kill tasty animals and build fire. All efforts otherwise are futile, accept your fate. Imagine the effect of only one EMP delivered at high altitude over the East Coast. All power grids are now controlled by computers, which are most likely fried by EMP. The last time we had a solar plasma flair the power lines and telegraph lines were melted off the poles.. Feel fragile yet? I offer this to all those who love to worry about things they have no control over.. it helps occupy their minds... ;)) Grant... On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: If you could make enough power cheap enough making hydrogen would be worth it. In California they may end up using wind power to desalinate water... Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
But they will benefit with cleaner air and better health. On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Be nice now. Wind and PV and other alternatives have a place where they make technical and economic sense, without artificial economics (and don't go off on the all bidness as a straw dog); otherwise, it is all apples and oranges and peaches. Spain almost went broke (or they did until the Germans bailed them out) over their expenditures on wind and solar, so there is that data point. The Brits are pissing off a good part of the population with wind machines whumpwhumpwhumpwhump --R Cleaner air: maybe Better health: Very debatable. Have you seen the health claims made by people who live under hi-lines or near wind turbines? I'll take a modern coal fired generator plant any day over the alternatives, unless/except nat Gas fired and hydro are good, where available. Off the grid, I would use wind, solar and batteries. People do that all the time. it is very expensive electric, and off the grid folks don't use much electricity. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Kind of surprised no one commented on my submission of a couple of articles on thorium reactors. Rick Sent from my BlackBerry Z10 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
One consideration that seems mostly forgotten is the environmental impact of wind turbines AND fields of solar panels (visual, wild life deaths, noise - yes wind turbines make noise, etc.). There are a thousands of acres of both in the desert north of Los Angeles and they are a blight. Not to mention that due to transmission losses they have to be sited somewhat near the end users. SO we all get the impacts. AT CL500 Aside from the health and noise problems for humans from BIG GEN, them thar big blades whack a LOT of birds, mutilating them and causing death and destruction. I think if they are run after dark they mess up the Bat-radar and lead to a lot of dead bats too. All factors the central contollers disguised as envirowackos don't consider. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Andy, I think I just did Nobody calle me Andy and gets away with it, except for college and pre-college friends. On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 12:50 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.commercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Polyvinyl as in PVC Or premature ventricular as in PVC (premature ventricular contractions) I think andy means photo voltaic as is solar cells Navy undoubtedly has other meanings for PV ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Solar doesn't kill anything. Here they're putting them on old landfills... Curt Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
If that were true the ground under the turbines would be covered with dead birds which they aren't... Not in new England anyway... Curt Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
On 13/11/2014 1:01 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: If that were true the ground under the turbines would be covered with dead birds which they aren't... Not in new England anyway... Curt Do you see fat Foxes etc around? RB ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Good point, although it is alleged that predators eat them quickly. On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 2:01 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: If that were true the ground under the turbines would be covered with dead birds which they aren't... Not in new England anyway... Curt Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Hilarious. On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 1:51 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Andy, I think I just did Nobody calle me Andy and gets away with it, except for college and pre-college friends. On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 12:50 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes mailto: mercedes@okiebenz.commercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Polyvinyl as in PVC Or premature ventricular as in PVC (premature ventricular contractions) I think andy means photo voltaic as is solar cells Navy undoubtedly has other meanings for PV ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
On November 13, 2014 at 2:01 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: If that were true the ground under the turbines would be covered with dead birds which they aren't... Not in new England anyway... Is the ground covered with feral cats, foxes, racoons, coyotes, and live carrion eating birds? I remember an article in Homepower magazine on the topic of bird kills, I think it was mainly about the 100 meter utility turbines. I don't remember exactly, but I think it said 'yep, turbines kill birds, but not as many as cars do'. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
On November 13, 2014 at 11:23 AM G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Imagine the effect of only one EMP delivered at high altitude over the East Coast. http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Angel-Complete-Jessica-Alba/dp/B00152R4VK ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Regarding cleaner air and better health, replacing coal power plants with natural gas is a huge step forward. I just finished listening to a podcast interview of Gregory Zuckerman about his book The Frackers: The Outrageous Inside Story of the New Billionaire Wildcatters. Zuckerman proposed that we should be helping China use fracking to find more gas and oil in their country, so they can replace their coal power plants with gas fired plants, like we are. It seems that fracking is a game changer, and cheap abundant gas is our energy future, vice nuclear. Max Dillon, Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Producing beer consumes about 20 times more water than fracking. We can argue about best use of water all day long. Tremors (very small earthquakes) are associated with re-injecting the contaminated water deep under ground, NOT with fracking. Changes in methods for dealing with the contaminated water solve that problem. Escaping methane gas is slightly more serious, depending on one's view if the whole global warming theory (I'm sure you know mine). Methane capture can be dealt with, the regulations need to be put in place vice throwing out the baby with the bath water. In short, your environmental lunch costs for fracking and natural gas power are far lower than coal... I never said it was free, just better. Max Dillon, Charleston SC On Nov 13, 2014 3:39 PM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Gas is better than coal, for sure, but fracking has environmental costs, such as enormous water use, potential groundwater contamination, waste disposal issues, and induced earthquakes. Furthermore, natural gas flaring and leaking of methane from wells and sloppy delivery systems dump tons of green house damaging gases into the atmosphere. There is no free lunch.. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Worse than coal plants? Worse than cell phone towers? Worse than strip mines? Sounds like NIMBY to me. Curt Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
WHAT? MORE regulations? ;-) Some of those Tremors are cracking foundations and brick walls here (I'd say we are averaging 8 - 10 per day, though we're at 20 today). No, they are not bring down tall buildings (or even small ones) or bridges, but there is damage to private property, that the drillers (waste water pumpers) deny. On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 4:04 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Producing beer consumes about 20 times more water than fracking. We can argue about best use of water all day long. Tremors (very small earthquakes) are associated with re-injecting the contaminated water deep under ground, NOT with fracking. Changes in methods for dealing with the contaminated water solve that problem. Escaping methane gas is slightly more serious, depending on one's view if the whole global warming theory (I'm sure you know mine). Methane capture can be dealt with, the regulations need to be put in place vice throwing out the baby with the bath water. In short, your environmental lunch costs for fracking and natural gas power are far lower than coal... I never said it was free, just better. -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Energy grids need to be dismantled. We gotta git ingenious about energy use and production. Not all of us need energy. Billions of planet dwellers have lived without energy - we can do that again and put ifone in its place. Think outside the box, not like the politically challenged. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
My son just spent two years doing that in Malawi - he does not recommend it as a way of life. Yes, it can be done in a benign climate, but no, it's not fun. Want a hot meal? Start by lighting the charcoal. Want a cup of coffee or tea? Start by lighting the charcoal . . . On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 7:25 PM, Mountain Man via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Energy grids need to be dismantled. We gotta git ingenious about energy use and production. Not all of us need energy. Billions of planet dwellers have lived without energy - we can do that again and put ifone in its place. Think outside the box, not like the politically challenged. mao -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
big blades whack a LOT of birds, Fresh meat. Or compost. Whatever it takes! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Outdoor cats do a lot more damage to birds than windmills, I imagine... On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 8:41 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: big blades whack a LOT of birds, Fresh meat. Or compost. Whatever it takes! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:25:37 -0500 Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I find thjis fascinating. Potentially solves the problem of transporting those humongous towers to wind farm sites. http://phys.org/news/2014-11-on-site-fabrication-taller-turbines-feasible.html I find thjis fascinating, too. But it begs the question, if you can, should you? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
They claim that wind energy in the mid-west is on parity with natural gas generated electricity now, and could be elsewhere with the taller towers. However, my electricity supplier (OGE) still charges a premium to sign up for wind generated electricity. They (OGE) are claiming that wind is saving money for all it's customers, yet you pay more for it - go figure. From their web site ( http://www.oge.com/environment/WindPower/Pages/BenefitsFAQs.aspx): I still think that Thorium nuclear energy is the way to go. As an example, for a typical OGE homeowner using about 12,000 kWh a year wind power charges would be: *Level* *Subscription* *Monthly Charge* A-25% 3,000 kWh $1.13 per month B-50% 6,000 kWh $2.00 per month C-100% 12,000 kWh $3.50 per month On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 11:57 AM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:25:37 -0500 Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I find thjis fascinating. Potentially solves the problem of transporting those humongous towers to wind farm sites. http://phys.org/news/2014-11-on-site-fabrication-taller-turbines-feasible.html I find thjis fascinating, too. But it begs the question, if you can, should you? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Yeah, wind energy is awesome. On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:57 PM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:25:37 -0500 Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I find thjis fascinating. Potentially solves the problem of transporting those humongous towers to wind farm sites. http://phys.org/news/2014-11-on-site-fabrication-taller-turbines-feasible.html I find thjis fascinating, too. But it begs the question, if you can, should you? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Maybe more expensive now, but in the future should be at par or cheaper with fossil fuel power. On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Yeah, wind energy is awesome. On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:57 PM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:25:37 -0500 Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I find thjis fascinating. Potentially solves the problem of transporting those humongous towers to wind farm sites. http://phys.org/news/2014-11-on-site-fabrication-taller-turbines-feasible.html I find thjis fascinating, too. But it begs the question, if you can, should you? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Congress needs to pass legisation that mandates winds to blow 24/7/365. On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:07:29 -0600 OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: They claim that wind energy in the mid-west is on parity with natural gas generated electricity now, and could be elsewhere with the taller towers. Ah, yes, there's the rub. For the amount of electricity it generates, wind energy IS cost-effective with natural gas. HOWEVER, whenever the wind stops, something will have to supply the energy that wind was, or the grid will collapse and everyone will be in the dark. Keeping that something in standby costs money and the cost cannot be avoided just because wind powered energy sources exist. Legislation should be passed that requires wind-energy sites to provide a constant amount of power 24/7/365. This will allow other, less-efficient sites to be moth-balled or torn down. This will require on-site storage or a backup system, just like the solar-tower system in the Mojave desert north of Los Angeles has. When the sun isn't shining, the site generates electricity from natural gas. However, my electricity supplier (OGE) still charges a premium to sign up for wind generated electricity. They (OGE) are claiming that wind is saving money for all it's customers, yet you pay more for it - go figure. From their web site ( http://www.oge.com/environment/WindPower/Pages/BenefitsFAQs.aspx): [reformatted to be readable] As an example, for a typical OGE homeowner using about 12,000 kWh a year wind power charges would be: *Level* *Subscription* *Monthly Charge* A-25% 3,000 kWh $1.13 per month B-50% 6,000 kWh $2.00 per month C-100%12,000 kWh $3.50 per month The website also says, === We offer four different use levels of wind power RECs. You will be billed at your selected level for 12 months. Level Percent Of Annual kWh Usage REC Price Per kWh A 25% $0.0045 per kWh B 50% $0.0040 per kWh C 100%$0.0035 per kWh === But from the website, it's not clear whether this price is what you are charged for the electricity (although this is my first intrepretation) or charged in addition to the standard electricity charge. I called the customer service number (800.272.9741) to ask, but the system said, We are currently experiencing long hold times, so I hung up. In Los Alamos, we are charged about $ 0.10 per kWh. Having charges of less than half that would be an advantage. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 13:09:26 -0500 Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe more expensive now, but in the future should be at par or cheaper with fossil fuel power. But you have to figure in the cost of a standby system to take up the slack when the wind stops blowing ... Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:32 PM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:07:29 -0600 OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: HOWEVER, whenever the wind stops, something will have to supply the energy that wind was, or the grid will collapse and everyone will be in the dark. Keeping that something in standby costs money and the cost cannot be avoided just because wind powered energy sources exist. The wind energy is supplemental now -- Legislation should be passed that requires wind-energy sites to provide a constant amount of power 24/7/365. This will allow other, less-efficient sites to be moth-balled or torn down. The website also says, === We offer four different use levels of wind power RECs. You will be billed at your selected level for 12 months. Level Percent Of Annual kWh Usage REC Price Per kWh A 25% $0.0045 per kWh B 50% $0.0040 per kWh C 100%$0.0035 per kWh === But from the website, it's not clear whether this price is what you are charged for the electricity (although this is my first intrepretation) or charged in addition to the standard electricity charge. These are additions to the basic rate. My last bill came to $0.1266 per kWH, I would add $0.0035 per kWh for 100% wind, for a total of $0.1301 per kWH. In Los Alamos, we are charged about $ 0.10 per kWh. Having charges of less than half that would be an advantage. -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
FYI - my quoted costs are total - all taxes, etc., divided by the kWHs used. On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 1:30 PM, OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: These are additions to the basic rate. My last bill came to $0.1266 per kWH, I would add $0.0035 per kWh for 100% wind, for a total of $0.1301 per kWH. In Los Alamos, we are charged about $ 0.10 per kWh. Having charges of less than half that would be an advantage. -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Texas has a fairly large installed wind capacity. Trouble is that it is way out in West Texas where the wind blows, kinda far from the loads. Texas is also almost isolated from the national grid. 5 or 6 years ago on New Years Day (I think, might have been NY Eve) the wind machines were cranking along and delivering a lot of power, and sometime in the afternoon the wind stopped. Dead calm from like 30kt just like that. A large megawattage of power just disappeared off the grid. I think there were blackouts in various metro areas as the operators struggled to bring peaking and standby plants on line. This takes a little while, and it is then necessary to reconfigure the grid, etc. So a lot people were without power, it was cold, football games, etc etc. That's the problem with wind, you need a lot of idle capacity sitting around not doing anything for when the wind dies. http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/275673/texas-wind-energy-fails-again-robert-bryce And the birds they kill... --R On 11/12/14 1:45 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: Congress needs to pass legisation that mandates winds to blow 24/7/365. On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:07:29 -0600 OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: They claim that wind energy in the mid-west is on parity with natural gas generated electricity now, and could be elsewhere with the taller towers. Ah, yes, there's the rub. For the amount of electricity it generates, wind energy IS cost-effective with natural gas. HOWEVER, whenever the wind stops, something will have to supply the energy that wind was, or the grid will collapse and everyone will be in the dark. Keeping that something in standby costs money and the cost cannot be avoided just because wind powered energy sources exist. Legislation should be passed that requires wind-energy sites to provide a constant amount of power 24/7/365. This will allow other, less-efficient sites to be moth-balled or torn down. This will require on-site storage or a backup system, just like the solar-tower system in the Mojave desert north of Los Angeles has. When the sun isn't shining, the site generates electricity from natural gas. However, my electricity supplier (OGE) still charges a premium to sign up for wind generated electricity. They (OGE) are claiming that wind is saving money for all it's customers, yet you pay more for it - go figure. From their web site ( http://www.oge.com/environment/WindPower/Pages/BenefitsFAQs.aspx): [reformatted to be readable] As an example, for a typical OGE homeowner using about 12,000 kWh a year wind power charges would be: *Level* *Subscription* *Monthly Charge* A-25% 3,000 kWh $1.13 per month B-50% 6,000 kWh $2.00 per month C-100%12,000 kWh $3.50 per month The website also says, === We offer four different use levels of wind power RECs. You will be billed at your selected level for 12 months. Level Percent Of Annual kWh Usage REC Price Per kWh A 25% $0.0045 per kWh B 50% $0.0040 per kWh C 100%$0.0035 per kWh === But from the website, it's not clear whether this price is what you are charged for the electricity (although this is my first intrepretation) or charged in addition to the standard electricity charge. I called the customer service number (800.272.9741) to ask, but the system said, We are currently experiencing long hold times, so I hung up. In Los Alamos, we are charged about $ 0.10 per kWh. Having charges of less than half that would be an advantage. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
They are rapidly developing ways to store energy that will smooth out load fluctioon caused by intermittency of wind and, to some extent, solar power. On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Texas has a fairly large installed wind capacity. Trouble is that it is way out in West Texas where the wind blows, kinda far from the loads. Texas is also almost isolated from the national grid. 5 or 6 years ago on New Years Day (I think, might have been NY Eve) the wind machines were cranking along and delivering a lot of power, and sometime in the afternoon the wind stopped. Dead calm from like 30kt just like that. A large megawattage of power just disappeared off the grid. I think there were blackouts in various metro areas as the operators struggled to bring peaking and standby plants on line. This takes a little while, and it is then necessary to reconfigure the grid, etc. So a lot people were without power, it was cold, football games, etc etc. That's the problem with wind, you need a lot of idle capacity sitting around not doing anything for when the wind dies. http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/275673/texas-wind- energy-fails-again-robert-bryce And the birds they kill... --R On 11/12/14 1:45 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: Congress needs to pass legisation that mandates winds to blow 24/7/365. On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:07:29 -0600 OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: They claim that wind energy in the mid-west is on parity with natural gas generated electricity now, and could be elsewhere with the taller towers. Ah, yes, there's the rub. For the amount of electricity it generates, wind energy IS cost-effective with natural gas. HOWEVER, whenever the wind stops, something will have to supply the energy that wind was, or the grid will collapse and everyone will be in the dark. Keeping that something in standby costs money and the cost cannot be avoided just because wind powered energy sources exist. Legislation should be passed that requires wind-energy sites to provide a constant amount of power 24/7/365. This will allow other, less-efficient sites to be moth-balled or torn down. This will require on-site storage or a backup system, just like the solar-tower system in the Mojave desert north of Los Angeles has. When the sun isn't shining, the site generates electricity from natural gas. However, my electricity supplier (OGE) still charges a premium to sign up for wind generated electricity. They (OGE) are claiming that wind is saving money for all it's customers, yet you pay more for it - go figure. From their web site ( http://www.oge.com/environment/WindPower/Pages/BenefitsFAQs.aspx): [reformatted to be readable] As an example, for a typical OGE homeowner using about 12,000 kWh a year wind power charges would be: *Level* *Subscription* *Monthly Charge* A-25% 3,000 kWh $1.13 per month B-50% 6,000 kWh $2.00 per month C-100%12,000 kWh $3.50 per month The website also says, === We offer four different use levels of wind power RECs. You will be billed at your selected level for 12 months. Level Percent Of Annual kWh Usage REC Price Per kWh A 25% $0.0045 per kWh B 50% $0.0040 per kWh C 100%$0.0035 per kWh === But from the website, it's not clear whether this price is what you are charged for the electricity (although this is my first intrepretation) or charged in addition to the standard electricity charge. I called the customer service number (800.272.9741) to ask, but the system said, We are currently experiencing long hold times, so I hung up. In Los Alamos, we are charged about $ 0.10 per kWh. Having charges of less than half that would be an advantage. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Strictly from the engineering point of view.. we have failed to harness the intestinal gas coming out of Washington, to drive wind turbines.. Unlike natural wind the special political gas wind is endless and does blow 24/7/365. If we just focused on this improved source, wind generated electricity would become practical.. Until then.. my information is that no wind farm has ever yet paid a Return On Investment Profit. I have been following alternate energy very closely since before the great oil embargo of 1973, which kind of lit every ones fires to start with. The wind farm at Banning Beaumont, CA. for example has been in operation since that era.. and to my knowledge has yet to return a profit to investors... except for federal grants which funded it to start with.. it would have been sold for scrap long ago, based on investor return.. Problem is.. wind blows when it blows.. People, on the other hand, want electricity 24/7/365... It's the perfect storm for failure... Until some bright young [or old] person comes up with a way to store electricity, then draw it down when needed, on a huge commercial scale.. dreams of wind power will remain .. well.. dreams.. Mercedes content: If I put a Mercedes star on my ice boat, will it go faster? On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:30 PM, OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:32 PM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:07:29 -0600 OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: HOWEVER, whenever the wind stops, something will have to supply the energy that wind was, or the grid will collapse and everyone will be in the dark. Keeping that something in standby costs money and the cost cannot be avoided just because wind powered energy sources exist. The wind energy is supplemental now -- Legislation should be passed that requires wind-energy sites to provide a constant amount of power 24/7/365. This will allow other, less-efficient sites to be moth-balled or torn down. The website also says, === We offer four different use levels of wind power RECs. You will be billed at your selected level for 12 months. Level Percent Of Annual kWh Usage REC Price Per kWh A 25% $0.0045 per kWh B 50% $0.0040 per kWh C 100%$0.0035 per kWh === But from the website, it's not clear whether this price is what you are charged for the electricity (although this is my first intrepretation) or charged in addition to the standard electricity charge. These are additions to the basic rate. My last bill came to $0.1266 per kWH, I would add $0.0035 per kWh for 100% wind, for a total of $0.1301 per kWH. In Los Alamos, we are charged about $ 0.10 per kWh. Having charges of less than half that would be an advantage. -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
In Texas they call that gas. Texas has the largest installed base of wind though, which is something given the state's reputation for the all bidness. --R On 11/12/14 4:11 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: They are rapidly developing ways to store energy that will smooth out load fluctioon caused by intermittency of wind and, to some extent, solar power. On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Texas has a fairly large installed wind capacity. Trouble is that it is way out in West Texas where the wind blows, kinda far from the loads. Texas is also almost isolated from the national grid. 5 or 6 years ago on New Years Day (I think, might have been NY Eve) the wind machines were cranking along and delivering a lot of power, and sometime in the afternoon the wind stopped. Dead calm from like 30kt just like that. A large megawattage of power just disappeared off the grid. I think there were blackouts in various metro areas as the operators struggled to bring peaking and standby plants on line. This takes a little while, and it is then necessary to reconfigure the grid, etc. So a lot people were without power, it was cold, football games, etc etc. That's the problem with wind, you need a lot of idle capacity sitting around not doing anything for when the wind dies. http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/275673/texas-wind-energy-fails-again-robert-bryce And the birds they kill... --R On 11/12/14 1:45 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: Congress needs to pass legisation that mandates winds to blow 24/7/365. On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:07:29 -0600 OK Don okd...@gmail.com mailto:okd...@gmail.com wrote: They claim that wind energy in the mid-west is on parity with natural gas generated electricity now, and could be elsewhere with the taller towers. Ah, yes, there's the rub. For the amount of electricity it generates, wind energy IS cost-effective with natural gas. HOWEVER, whenever the wind stops, something will have to supply the energy that wind was, or the grid will collapse and everyone will be in the dark. Keeping that something in standby costs money and the cost cannot be avoided just because wind powered energy sources exist. Legislation should be passed that requires wind-energy sites to provide a constant amount of power 24/7/365. This will allow other, less-efficient sites to be moth-balled or torn down. This will require on-site storage or a backup system, just like the solar-tower system in the Mojave desert north of Los Angeles has. When the sun isn't shining, the site generates electricity from natural gas. However, my electricity supplier (OGE) still charges a premium to sign up for wind generated electricity. They (OGE) are claiming that wind is saving money for all it's customers, yet you pay more for it - go figure. From their web site ( http://www.oge.com/environment/WindPower/Pages/BenefitsFAQs.aspx): [reformatted to be readable] As an example, for a typical OGE homeowner using about 12,000 kWh a year wind power charges would be: *Level* *Subscription* *Monthly Charge* A-25% 3,000 kWh $1.13 per month B-50% 6,000 kWh $2.00 per month C-100%12,000 kWh $3.50 per month The website also says, === We offer four different use levels of wind power RECs. You will be billed at your selected level for 12 months. Level Percent Of Annual kWh Usage REC Price Per kWh A 25% $0.0045 per kWh B 50% $0.0040 per kWh C 100%$0.0035 per kWh === But from the website, it's not clear whether this price is what you are charged for the electricity (although this is my first intrepretation) or charged in addition to the standard electricity
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 14:35:10 -0700 G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Mercedes content: If I put a Mercedes star on my ice boat, will it go faster? Sure, just like Wilton's trailer can carry more with its star. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Well, the trailer star generates much more conversation, anyway. ;) Wilton - Original Message - From: Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 14:35:10 -0700 G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Mercedes content: If I put a Mercedes star on my ice boat, will it go faster? Sure, just like Wilton's trailer can carry more with its star. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
G Mann via Mercedes wrote: The wind farm at Banning Beaumont, CA. for example has been in operation since that era.. and to my knowledge has yet to return a profit to investors... except for federal grants which funded it to start with.. it would have been sold for scrap long ago, based on investor return.. Personally, I was excited when I saw that good quality solar panels were less than a dollar a rated watt, as my electric cost is above average (.1441 per kwh, inclusive of tax). Then I did the math. Barebones system, DIY, about $3/watt. Therefore at least $3000 per rated kW, which would produce about 4kWh per day. $0.58 per day, $210 per year, is not a stellar return on $3000 upfront plus maintenance costs, assuming I could get net metering. For my location, wind is probably a good bit worse than solar. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
The local utility (TECO) has fought solar for years, which is stupid because in our area it almost makes sense. They recently bowed to pressure from many sides and now offer some credits, but they are very limited and are tough to get. There is effectively a lottery for them every year and if you don’t get in, it doesn’t make good fiscal sense to do it. I looked at it a little, and it would only make sense if I was sure I would stay in or own the house for another 20 years. The minute I sell all of that savings goes away and I have to pony up the costs. The only really good alternative energy program I have seen (so far) that had a good payback and made sense was geothermal. We looked very seriously at it when we lived in Indiana, and had our financial situation not been so tenuous (the economy was in the dumper and the wife had been laid off twice) we would have done it. Total cost for a geothermal system for our 4000 sf house would have been about $19,000. State and Federal credits would get that down to about $11,000 on the total cost in one time credits. State of Indiana had a tax credit program for participants that effectively “forgave” state property tax on the house as long as you owned it and the system was operational. Operating costs would have been around $100/month in peak months, which would be winter and mid summer (AC) months. Worst case, $1200/year in costs. Our heating (natural gas) and AC (electricity) costs were around $3000/year. With these numbers we could have recovered our costs in under 10 years. Life of the system was projected at 20-25 years. This was all based on existing systems that had been in place in the immediate area for 5-7 years, so the numbers weren’t guesstimates, and the installer was a local contractor who had been doing these systems for 10 years. Dan On Nov 12, 2014, at 5:36 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: G Mann via Mercedes wrote: The wind farm at Banning Beaumont, CA. for example has been in operation since that era.. and to my knowledge has yet to return a profit to investors... except for federal grants which funded it to start with.. it would have been sold for scrap long ago, based on investor return.. Personally, I was excited when I saw that good quality solar panels were less than a dollar a rated watt, as my electric cost is above average (.1441 per kwh, inclusive of tax). Then I did the math. Barebones system, DIY, about $3/watt. Therefore at least $3000 per rated kW, which would produce about 4kWh per day. $0.58 per day, $210 per year, is not a stellar return on $3000 upfront plus maintenance costs, assuming I could get net metering. For my location, wind is probably a good bit worse than solar. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
As long as the towers are at least 1000 miles away form MY home Yeah, wind energy is awesome. On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:57 PM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:25:37 -0500 Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I find thjis fascinating. Potentially solves the problem of transporting those humongous towers to wind farm sites. http://phys.org/news/2014-11-on-site-fabrication-taller-turbines-feasible.html I find thjis fascinating, too. But it begs the question, if you can, should you? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Only when the wind blows As for cost: every MW of wind has to have a MW of real generator sitting somewhere for energy when the wind don't blow. Maybe more expensive now, but in the future should be at par or cheaper with fossil fuel power. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
We gotta dump the idea of 24/7 energy. Use it when it is there, figure it out when it is not. That takes ingenuity. 24/7 takes no ingenuity. Centralized power distro is stupid. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
They are rapidly developing ways to store energy that will smooth out load fluctioon caused by intermittency of wind and, to some extent, solar power. But the fact remains that you want the towers 1000 miles away. Even if there were storage, it costs money and energy to move the MW to your house. Do you want high voltage transmission lines (Hi-line) running over YOUR house? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Do tell more. What are these storage technologies and who is developing them? -Original Message- From: Andrew Strasfogel Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 4:11 PM They are rapidly developing ways to store energy that will smooth out load fluctioon caused by intermittency of wind and, to some extent, solar power. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Batteries, molten salt, and ice. Compressed air some day. On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Do tell more. What are these storage technologies and who is developing them? -Original Message- From: Andrew Strasfogel Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 4:11 PM They are rapidly developing ways to store energy that will smooth out load fluctioon caused by intermittency of wind and, to some extent, solar power. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
I've followed all those possible storage modalities and I don't see great progress with them. A battery bank capable of supplying 20 Megawatt power to power a small city would consume days of wind energy to produce electricity to store... you enter the land of diminishing return quickly. Molten salt requires electric current to heat to useful working temperatures.. again with wind power.. how much the wind blows to produce heating electric vs how long you can store heat at working temp.. again.. diminishing returns.. Compressed air takes energy to compress, storage facilitys to hold it.. to run what is in effect a steam turbine [with no steam expansion] ... ¿¿ Return on investment on that seems sketchy. Unless some really wonderful invention has been made to overcome the incipient short comings of these, I don't see great moves in the near future.. Please edumacate me. Grant... On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 9:10 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Batteries, molten salt, and ice. Compressed air some day. On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Do tell more. What are these storage technologies and who is developing them? -Original Message- From: Andrew Strasfogel Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 4:11 PM They are rapidly developing ways to store energy that will smooth out load fluctioon caused by intermittency of wind and, to some extent, solar power. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
I've followed all those possible storage modalities and I don't see great progress with them. all in the realm of the perpetual motion machine, or the alchemist turning water or lead into gold. But! Wait! There more! Algore turns lies into money. That works! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
This is the answer to the US electrical needs of the future. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_fluoride_thorium_reactor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-based_nuclear_power http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21600656-thorium-element-named-after-norse-god-thunder-may-soon-contribute And once again we will be beaten by the Chinese. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100026863/china-going-for-broke-on-thorium-nuclear-power-and-good-luck-to-them/ Of course thorium reactors do NOT Produce weapons grade anything, so our government has no interest in it whatsoever. Also, the waste decays in centuries and not 10 to the nth power years. With young adults in college as smart as this video shows, (if it isn't a parody) we are pretty much screwed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRZZpk_9k8Esns=em Rick Sent from my BlackBerry 10 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
One of the option out west, were there are big rivers and some dams, the excess wind power sucks water back up the dam and stuffs it into the water hole it just came out of. THe electrons were not going to get to go on the grid anyway, and the little fishies get to play in the water for a few more days. It also helps keep the irrigation water stored for later use clay On Nov 12, 2014, at 7:23 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote: I've followed all those possible storage modalities and I don't see great progress with them. A battery bank capable of supplying 20 Megawatt power to power a small city would consume days of wind energy to produce electricity to store... you enter the land of diminishing return quickly. Molten salt requires electric current to heat to useful working temperatures.. again with wind power.. how much the wind blows to produce heating electric vs how long you can store heat at working temp.. again.. diminishing returns.. Compressed air takes energy to compress, storage facilitys to hold it.. to run what is in effect a steam turbine [with no steam expansion] ... ¿¿ Return on investment on that seems sketchy. Unless some really wonderful invention has been made to overcome the incipient short comings of these, I don't see great moves in the near future.. Please edumacate me. Grant... On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 9:10 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Batteries, molten salt, and ice. Compressed air some day. On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Do tell more. What are these storage technologies and who is developing them? -Original Message- From: Andrew Strasfogel Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 4:11 PM They are rapidly developing ways to store energy that will smooth out load fluctioon caused by intermittency of wind and, to some extent, solar power. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] OT: Onsite fabrication of taller wind turbines
Back when wind was big the first time due to tax subsidies (MEOW as Jimmuh called it), I was tasked to study something called a superconducting magnetic energy storage system. This is basically a large supercooled metal donut into which electrical energy is injected, then it keeps flowing until pulled out. A very cold battery. I created a software simulation and ran various scenarios which basically showed it would not work, despite it seeming to be a good idea. Physics. Most such schemes try to violate The Laws even when they can be bent a bit with various clever tricks. --R (sent from my miniPad) On Nov 12, 2014, at 11:23 PM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I've followed all those possible storage modalities and I don't see great progress with them. A battery bank capable of supplying 20 Megawatt power to power a small city would consume days of wind energy to produce electricity to store... you enter the land of diminishing return quickly. Molten salt requires electric current to heat to useful working temperatures.. again with wind power.. how much the wind blows to produce heating electric vs how long you can store heat at working temp.. again.. diminishing returns.. Compressed air takes energy to compress, storage facilitys to hold it.. to run what is in effect a steam turbine [with no steam expansion] ... ¿¿ Return on investment on that seems sketchy. Unless some really wonderful invention has been made to overcome the incipient short comings of these, I don't see great moves in the near future.. Please edumacate me. Grant... On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 9:10 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Batteries, molten salt, and ice. Compressed air some day. On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Do tell more. What are these storage technologies and who is developing them? -Original Message- From: Andrew Strasfogel Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 4:11 PM They are rapidly developing ways to store energy that will smooth out load fluctioon caused by intermittency of wind and, to some extent, solar power. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
