New on this list but not a newbie
Hello everyone, I am new on this list but, judging by the glance I took at the archives of this mailing list, I'm going to feel right at home. I noticed, for instance, that my three buddies from OPN are very active on this list ; specifically Xavier Bury, David Bovill and Monte Goulding. What's shaking guys? What became of our MetaCard-based Jabber client? This is not just an off-hand question, BTW, because the lab I work for is desperately seeking a Web-based chat whose content is XML and, thereby, interoperable with other Web-based clients for other communication means, forming a cohesive whole where all the different components of a complete groupware solution interoperate seamlessly. All the better if this solution can also interoperate with other existing chats like Jabber does. You were dead-on, David, about the relevance of Jabber. Things in the lab I work for are at a turning-point right now. One of our objectives is to create a communication, collaboration and E-learning platform where the components can be mixed-and-matched at will, forming whole systems ( value-added solutions ) whose components interoperate seemlessly. This objective is not the issue though. Nor is open-source versus closed-source the issue because we have definitely opted for OPEN source, adherence to as many open standards as possible, and multi-platform deployment. The turning-point I alluded to has to do with *HOW* we should go about achieving it. To make it multi-platform, many of my colleagues are arguing that we should make it entirely web-based. You know the drill : PHP, mySQL, and that sort of thing. Technologies that are indeed very mainstream these days among web developers. And most of them are open-source and free of charge. There is no denying that this is a safe and rational approach, but genuine breakthru innovation requires more than this. I have been doing this web stuff for about 7 years now, and I've tried countless pure-Web solutions, and still none of the Web stuff compares to the interactivity and performance that can be achieved with *real* software. Particularly software like MetaCard which is as multi-platform as any existing web-browser; for playback (like the Web) as well as authoring (unlike the Web); client-side as well as server-side (just like Java but incomparably simpler). Web pages, even with JavaScript in them, are severely limited in terms of client-side interactivity. You cannot easily allow the users to move things around, do drag-and-drop stuff, and so on. I could go on-and-on about the downsides of the Web versus MetaCard's upsides, but I don't want to turn this post into an essay. Besides it's a moot issue because MetaCard is web-savvy, e.g. it can do anything that a web-browser can in terms of accessing the Internet. The only web thing that MetaCard cannot do as well as web-browsers can is to render HTML (which I suggested to Scott many months ago, but he rejected this feature-request). The Java-based version of FreeCard, OTOH, will be able to do this when it's released, in which case what the Web offers becomes a subset of what our xCard can offer. On the development side of things, a scripted xCard is easier for most non-professionals to build on their own than all of the Web stuff based on PHP, let alone programming something multi-platform with a traditional programming language and development environment. Scripting with an xTalk instead of JavaScript or VBscript and/or one or more server-side languages. Precise WYSIWYG placement instead of the approximate layout suggested by a markup language. And so much more. The point of all of this is that I am trying to convince the lab I work for to opt for an xCard approach (breakthru) instead of the web-only approach (conformity mediocrity) that so many are resorting to now. My presentations on this issue have had a definite impact on my colleagues, but they are still hesitating a bit because not-conforming to what everyone is doing is perceived as risky. I believe that providing them with a MC-based Jabber-client that is XML-compliant would put them over the top and, more generally, other Web-savvy MC-based solutions would also be persuasive and, ultimately, a large collection of existing stacks to demonstrate the versatility and usefulness of an xCard would be nice too ( IOW a MetaCard Pantechnicon ). Just so you know where my 'head' is at, Alain Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: New on this list but not a newbie
There is no breakthru in using Metacard for your project just a more efficient spending of time and energy but I know what you mean. It's not a breakthru for you or for me, given that we have been using one or more xCards for years now. It is a breakthru though, when compared to what web-browsing internauts are commonly settling for. It's a breakthru for the lab I work for, furthermore, because they didn't even know that such a thing exists. Relativity man! ;-) Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Can't delete card
When I try to delete a card via a bg script, I am given an Error message (...). the error message: Object: stack locked, or object's script is executing Chunk: can't delete object Is there a rationale behind this? Put the delete handler higher up in the hierarchy, e.g. in the bg-script or in the stack-script. The rationale is that you cannot delete the card that contains the running handler. BTW it is still running even though all of the statements have been executed, because the last line has not executed yet, e.g. the end handlerName __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: MC front end to PostgreSQL
Hello, Excuse me for budding in but ... YEAH! How can MC replace an HTML Web form? Use MetaCard's widgets instead of the poor unreliable ones that we have to use when using HTML to create the form and JavaScript to make it interactive. Instead of the submit button, your script then POSTs the fields of the MetaCard-based form to a CGI. No need for any HTML or any JavaScript. Everything from within MetaCard, and the fact that MC runs on ANY platform achieves the same multi-platform-ness as the web-only solution. But MetaCard's interactivity far surpasses what can ever be achieved by even the most-creative JavaScript scriptor. Interactive validation of the fields, for example, is a cinch in MetaCard. Adjusting the contents of one or more subsequent popup menus, according to what the user fills in to the form, is also a cinch to implement; night-and-day when compared to HTML and JavaScript. Do you mean you will distribute MC stacks and the user won't go through a browser? You certainly can. Let's conquer the Web with MetaCard, Alain Farmer __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Web-Dedicated Metacard
So, what kinds of strategies can anyone suggest to take this beyond the consensus reality barrier? Start with the unparalleled interactivity performance of REAL software like MetaCard, versus mere web-browser based access to HTML + JavaScript. For example: once the web page is rendered, can you move things around? *NO*. It's a fundamentally static interface. With MC, OTOH, you can move things around at will, do drag-and-drop, view [scripted] object-oriented drawings and animations, trap all keyboard keys, have a custom menubar, update other stacks relationally ... Try doing any of this with the all-too-popular web-based HTML + JavaScript stuff! The answer is typically Well, that's nice, but you are not going to reach as many people... It all depends on your marketing strategies and tactics, methinks. Adobe Acrobat pulled it off, didn't they! Look at it thir way. Provide the Reader freely. People DL it once and forget it. When you click on a .pdf link in the Web, the PDF document is automatically opened with the Acrobat Reader program/plugin. Simple. Still very web-based given that its still going on in the vicinity of your familiar web-browser (e.g. argument to placate your detractors). Same goes for MetaCard! You can auto-DL stacks on the fly ... If you don't tell em it's MC, the users will probably think that you are providing them with high-performance Java applets! ;-) How many are going to download your plugin? Download the player once, forget thereafter; your web experience, while remaining familiar, will be immensely more stimulating, interactive, and so on, and so on ... than ever before. Here's a further idea to make it even simpler: you might want to design into your stacks the ability to automatically and transparently contact your server in order to auto-update itself whenever necessary e.g. instead of pestering the user to manually update on a periodic basis like many programs/plugins do. You still have to get them to go via a browser and download your stuff... This is a spurious argument, especially given my above suggestions. Besides, you could also use your custom MC-clients as web-savvy programs that the user may not even know is a web program. Imagine for a moment, as I do, a widely distributed network of MC clients and servers acting as one collective distributed entity. Or, more usually, imagine what this could do for your LAN and/or Intranet. Why not just put it up in html in the first place. With HTML, content, content-structure, presentation and interactivity are all intertwined. The least they could do for flexibility and inter-operability is to code the content with XML. In which case, you also have to deal with the CSS and some other related W3C technologies and standards. In which case, it's more complicated to do it this way than the xCard way, and far less *reusable*. In stack form, you can output your content as HTML, XML, in database format, as a CGI, and so on. It's time for all xCards to show their colours and take their right-honorable-place on the podium of excellence, and consequently somewhat displacing the lowest-common-denominator that we have grown used to since 1995, but all for the better! Persuaded yet? ;-) Alain Farmer xCard fanatic PS: I should probably mention that in addition to all of the above, the Java version of FreeCard will be able to be embedded into web-pages in the same manner that Java applets are. No separate program or plugin; the stack in a portion of the web-page. Or vice-versa, I am told, so that we will be able to browse the web inside a widget of the stack's interface. Yup! the web from *within* a stack. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
xCards versus HTML
If we talk about public web sites the goal should be absolute accessibility everywhere. I think we can all agree on this fundamental goal. But making a player available freely and providing content which is not html-ized does not contravene this crucial principle. You cannot create xCard content with a plain old text editor (W3C's definition of accessibility) but no-cost versions of MC and RunRev are available via the web which allow you to do everything that HTML can do, with no limitations; script the interactivity of your content with the 10-line and 25-line scripting-limits of MC and RunRev respectively. Much can be achieved within this constraint given that the script of buttons rarely exceed a few lines, for example. Full accessibility, in my view, should also take into consideration the ease with which the content and its interactivity can be maintained/modified by those who create the wares AND by those who USE them too. What would you rather work with? With an xCard that allows you to build your web solutions with a WYSIWYG GUI vs a traditional approach to web solutions which requires you to *textually* code the content, its structure and the appearance that its *likely* to have on the client side, plus your users cannot readily change it themselves. Do you prefer xTalk over JavaScript? Unfortunately as long as somebody is going to make a buck out of it, html will never evolve and the public will be served only half. The HTML standard has been retired from the development cycle. IOW, W3C has officially declared that the HTML standard is done. It won't evolve any further. W3C others are now promoting XML (and kin) as the standards of the future. At best, HTML will live on as xHTML, IOW as a dialect of XML that can be handled by XML as XML. The excuse that the backward compatibility will suffer is false, people do upgrade when they have a reason. Backward compatibility is important but in the ebullient and volatile climate of rapid technological changes that we live in these days, its not always feasible. To avoid this merry-go-round, we must endeavour to make our wares (and the underlying code) as OPEN as possible. Open to third-party enhancements, as well open to the subsequent changes that will inevitably be made to the ware/code. This, in turn, is mainly a question of good design and a bit of foresight. Backward compatibility is more viable (sustainable) with stacks than with HTML pages. A stack is equivalent to a complete site, yet far more flexible than the dozens or hundreds of corresponding web pages. A stack can/will be scripted to re-purpose the existing content, casting the content in several forms: HTML, XML, textfiles, database records, reports, CGI program; individually, or any mix that you wish. New formats can also be scripted as they become available, relevant, popular... without fussing with the content at all and without disrupting the other formats either. I agree with you that people do upgrade when they have a good reason and a reasonable of success. It's evolution! My conviction is that we have the upper-hand in terms of potential, but I suppose that we the xCard community has not made its case persuasively enough. Not yet that is! Ignorance of the superiority of our xCard approach must be countered with more communication, and hopefully my last 3 messages to this list have contributed to this, albeit in a very small way. You can quote my ramblings, if you wish, in other forums. As it is, I am preaching to the converted, eh! For those of you who know me better, I am endeavouring to persuade the university-based RD center that I work for to switch over to an xCard approach from a PHP+SQL solution which mirrors what everyone else is doing. No thank you; conformity sucks!, particularly when one is being pressured to conform to something mediocre like HTML and JavasScript. We can, and will do, much better than this. Update : my colleagues and my superiors are taking my proposal very very seriously. They expect me to submit a detailed plan along these lines, in order to fetch some top-notch support, including some funding, to pursue this xCard approach *aggressively*. :-) I can't believe how much time I have blown on this post. I have to get back to work now. If I am boring you all, then please tell me eh! ;-) Editorially yours, Alain Farmer Laboratoire de Communautique Appliquée Université de Québec à Montréal (UQAM) [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: HTML versus xCards
Hello Ray and y'all, Yo troops, Nice of you to join in! ;-) With all this talk about the pleasures of working with HTML, I just couldn't resist sending this along... HOW TO BUILD A WEB PAGE IN 25 STEPS... Hilarious but true! ;-) Playing devil's advocate for a moment, it could be argued that most of these site-building steps apply whether it's a web site or not. Selecting the images, for example. Moreover, my approach of creating a stack to update and manage an entire web site, given that it is generating the HTML of a web site, is even more work than just putting together the same site without this site [re-]generator, but the advantages of this extra work pay off big dividends when [unpredictable] changes need to done, in terms of content as well as appearance and structure. With the stack, changing the bg image of all of the pages is as simple as changing the content of one field (type it in and/or a browse button) and then clicking on the Regenerate this site btn. Very fast, very effective, no multiple pages to change, no risk of human-error ... Pure joy! And this is just an example, among countless examples, of the power of managing and generating HTML with an xCard. The web-savvyness of the xCards (with an XCMD in HC/SC) pays off here because it means that the generated web-pages can automatically be sent (via FTP, HTTP) to the remote the server that hosts your web site (e.g. if and when you are not your own web server). So, as you can see, it's not necessarily a matter of completely replacing HTML with an xCard. And no hard choices to make, either, because you can have BOTH at the same time. :)) I am really enjoying this thread, Alain Farmer __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: xCards versus HTML
Hello Robert and y'all, Hmm, you seem to forget one little detail. MC is not a stagnant environment and evolves as well, creating compatibility issues of its own as new versions are coming out. A double-edged sword indeed. On the one hand, we want development in order to improve what we have already got (evolution). OTOH, we want terrain-tested stability and reliability that won't break existing works (backward compatibility). Reality, so to speak, is somewhere in between these two extremes. Don't get me wrong, however: you're making a very good point. Regards, Alain Farmer __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: determining members of group
What's the syntax for determining the members of a group? members of group x objects of group x elements of group x buttons/fields/players etc of group x Don't pull out your hair, Rodney. ;-) I think the work you are looking for is PARTS. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Sharing field info between metacard and Filemaker?
Is it possible to share information betweeen Metacard flds and other databases such as filemaker aside from using third party products such as Quickkeys? Yes. Try tab-delimited text files. They are universal. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Comm Server
Has anyone built a metacard based comm server? Something akin to IRC that has multiple rooms etc? I'm interested in setting something like this up for myself. Shao Sean has one. Not sure if he is still working on it. What about the MC-based Jabber client that OPN started many months ago. Jabber, as you probably already know, is a *gateway* to several IRC/chat systems which also manage your *presence*. Moreover, underneath the hood of Jabber, there's a solid architecture based on XML, for messaging as well as [meta-]data structures. OPN was/is : David Bovill, MisterX, Monte Goulding, and myself, albeit I didn't contribute *directly* to the development of this particular Jabber-client stack. Just a thought, Alain Farmer __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: php wikis
Hello David, I've been using blogger for a couple of years now... You knew about blogs *two years* ago. Wow! You are way ahead of your time, David. IOW, you're a *genius* ! got an MC XML_RPC client somewhere which you're welcome to. Amazing! Superbe! Beyond my *wildest* expectations! :)) Please locate this gem for me, ASAP, because Im working actively on my MC-based blog client, as we speak. Plus I have a blog up-and-running which, so far, I can only use via its poorly-made web interface. We've just added an XML-RPC interface to a Zope powered WIKI... This is a *fascinating* revelation, David. :)) I am familiar with Zope. We have a Zope expert on our team whose name is Nicolas Marchildon. If you have any tech difficulties related to Zope, then don't hesitate to contact him thru me. ... and will be releasing that open source (most likely public domain) ... Public Domain, eh! Admit it, David : I have had a (+) influence on you. ;-) ... as soon as it's all integrated with the CVS servers. I am raptly interested, David. Please notify as soon as it becomes available to the public. Count me among the testers if indeed you need some testers. Admiratively, Alain Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: php wikis
Hello David, Andu, and y'all, I've not used MC to create server side blog/Wiki stuff -- it's already been done... Please, please, I *beg* you to give us some URLs to have a look at these MetaCard-based blog/Wiki servers. ... but adding custom stuff to the core structure is I think a more productive line to take. Sounds interesting. Let's discuss this further. On the end-user side, I've never been a fan of Wikis, but liked Blog's, which is strange as I'm working on wiki based stuff at the moment. Blog's have proved more succesful in the short term... That's odd! My experience is exactly the contrary. Blogs are like un-threaded forums. The messages just pile in one after the other, most recent one on the top. A lot of 'publishing' systems like Xoops also share this same paradigm. Wikis, OTOH, are more like a editable website. The content is divided into hyperlinked pages. The info becomes hierarchically organized (a good thing) without sacrificing any of the hyper-linking to any other page or site. The knowledge being built with the wiki has a stable feel to it, and bits of it can be subsequently tweaked as many times as you like; whereas, in blogs, only the admin has the power to modify the content of the contributions. What I don't like about wikis, or rather the ones I have used so far, is that the web interface is the *only* way to interact with the wiki; whereas the blog can also be mailed to or accessed by any XML-RPC client. But I have since discovered that there are wikis that also do XML-RPC. Without this 'automation' potential, making global changes in a wiki is a nightmare. You literally have to go to each-and-every page as any 'user' would. Which is why I am still interested in systems like Zope. A global change of a footer on [a subset of] all pages is a cinch with Zope : all you have to do is change one file in the appropriate place in the object hierarchy. ...but the technologies are merging. Many blogs were started by forking some wiki code. As for merging, I am not sure it would be a good idea. They each have their own particular 'charm' (e.g. uses). Wikis especially annoy me as they bring out in the starkest terms, how awful browsers are at producing responsive interfaces - you can do it so much better in MC. My guess is that you're interacting with your blogs with a MC-client, whereas the wikis you have used only have a web interface. If so, you have not founf the right wiki yet, e.g. the ones you can remote control with XML-RPC. Think you can get the best in both worlds by producing value added clients in MC, with the option of using the web interface if you really have to. Very well summed up, David. Value added clients in MC for those customers who are open-minded, AND the lesser option of using the web interface for those conservative customers who are still *clinging* to their favorite web browser (just like Linus and his favorite blanket in the Peanuts). Regards y'all, Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: php wikis
Hello Sadu, David, and y'all, Yo! Another interested party here ... So how about it, David. Do you have any download-URLs for us? Reading is fun and instructive, but we want to *play* with something. Some building blocks... ;-) We're using a wiki to create a user extensible software manual (ah, you know me, love docs), so end users can add their own note pages to the manual. Excellent way of using a wiki. :) It's an old wiki and infortunately, in-line images don't work. That's *really* old! All of the wikis Ive tested support inline images, even the simplest ones. I've seen some newer ones where that does work (heh .. including the place where we got this one a couple years ago... Pretty much *anywhere* you look. It's Ward Cunningham's... Who, as we all know, was inspired by HyperCard when he created the first wiki ever. What an impressive lineage HyperCard has, eh! Is that the right spelling? Yes. ... and I've looked at some newer ones like Swiki but this sounds very interesting. I have swiki installed on my server if you would like to try it. It has some nice features that many wikis do not have, such as : (1) the editing form includes a field to change the name of the page; (2) when you change it, the name of a page is replaced everywhere in the wiki, e.g. no broken links; (3) an automatic listing at the bottom of each page of the pages linked to the current page. I have been moving *away* from swiki, though, because it regularly froze my server, forcing me to reboot, notably when editing *long* pages. Hmmm... yes, it would be cool if I could give the users a nice MC tool for manual updates, searching etc. In terms of usage, I am solidly anchored into *wiki*. As for RD, in the short-term Im entirely focused on blogs. My blog plans are the following : 1. One MC-based blog client for blog-users ; 2. One MC-based blog client for blog-admins ; 3. One MC-based blog server. Any previous work done on any/all of the above that you could share with me/others would, therefore, be a great leap forward right now. Please act *immediately* so that I can avoid doing any un-necessary work.. Pretty please, with a cherry on top. ;-) I share David's aversion towards web stuff, particularly when compared to the web-applications we can accomplish with MetaCard. I am an ardent supporter and promoter of using an xCard on the client side as well as the server side. And I certainly don't count myself among those who still desperately cling to the web-browser as the one only means of making good use of the Internet. But.. it is clearly an uphill battle that we're facing. We have to soften the transition for those who are too insecure to let go of their web-browser 'blanket'. Hence, it is a good first step to make them realize that xCard-apps can vastly improve their current web habits. Blogging with a MC-based blog client, for example, is simpler and better than blogging via the blog's web interface. Downloading stacks from the Pantechnicon from within our inventory stack is another example. Once they grasped all of the advantages of our xCard approach to the web, by actually using them, then they may gradually move away from their web browser, in favour of our xCard clients, for most of their web-based activities. Java-based FreeCard will have an edge here, btw, given that Java applets can be imbedded into web pages, plus web browsing can be embedded into Java programs. I also discovered that JavaScript can be embedded into any Java program, including FreeCard, and therefore that one of FreeCard's scriptingLanguages will be JavaScript. This should appeal to those web-developers who are familiar with JavaScript because it will smooth their transition from web-pages (DOM) to xCards. Subversive eh! ;-) Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: php wikis
Hello Andu and y'all, Weblogs are not supposed to be edited in the way wikis are because... they are not wikis. Good point, Andu. The gist of what I was getting at, though, is that the reason why David might prefer blogs over wikis is that wikis lack the automation of blogs. I don't get it, you want to read the wiki in a browser but to edit it in a different application, why use wiki. I am not sure what is so perplexing about this. I want to browse the wiki, plus make some changes to it on the fly, just like any other user. But, as an administrator of the wiki, who maintains and improves the orderliness of the wiki's content, I often need to make many changes at once and, in these cases, the web browser GUI of the wiki is NOT efficient. Changing the footer, for example. The thing with the footer is just a matter of design, you can have the script insert a footer in all pages as they are served. You can do this with a *wiki* ? If so, then I have chosen a bad example. Suppose someone referred to many times in the wiki suddenly changes his e-mail address? Or what if a contributor changes the domain-name of his server and, consequently, would break the URLs of their contributions (pan downloads). And so on. I'm not a friend of html but I recently discovered the potential of css... The idea is great. The implementation sucks. Or, less brutally, CSS has not been adopted integrally by any of the current web browsers and, therefore, lacks stability when deploying to many browsers on many platforms. (kind of late, I know)... I'll say. That ship passed eons ago. ;-) and I do believe that good design can make a difference. Who could argue with that! :) Zope is great but it comes with a learning curve. Yup! :( __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: php wikis
Hello David and y'all, Found another one recently: did you know that the first Wiki was developed in HyperCard... then the guy looked at porting it to MC... Not developped in HyperCard. Only *inspired* by it. Btw, the guy's name is Ward Cunningham, he's a colleague of Kent Beck (which visited us recently while he was on tour); together, they started the whole trend of Agile methodologies, e.g. Rapid Application Development (RAD), not unlike what we're used to with HyperCard. Take a look at this about the history of wikis http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiHistory Check out this page of their wiki too: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?HyperCard It's a wiki, so I took the liberty of adding my own bit at the end of the page. It seemed like a good place to plug FreeCard because (1) FreeCard is being programmed in Java, (2) the methodology used is the same one being used by the members and promoters of this wiki, e.g. XP, and (3) I am a *member* of the XP group being hosted on this wiki. Small world, eh! :)) PS: Blogs are very hot right now. FreeCard has its own blog now, at : http://www.communautic.uqam.ca/blog/ . A blog is similar to a wiki, and many existing blogs were crafted with wiki source-code. But the 'kicker' is that all blogs ( apparently some wikis too) can be remotely controlled via any client that supports XML-RPC, and ... I've just started a project to craft such a client with MetaCard. IOW, you will soon be able to use my MC-stack to edit blogs and wikis, from within MetaCard FreeGUI, without the need for a *separate* web-browser or e-mail client. It's all coming together. What a trip! :)) Alain Farmer __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: CGI in Mac Classic (8.6)
Hello everyone, I am currently experimenting with MacOS-Classic CGIs. I want to thank Liang Tyan and Robert for their help. The *script* provided in Liang Tyan's reply was particularly useful to me. I've got a MC-based CGI now running on my server. Awesome! :)) New problem : so far, the CGI only works when the client is a web-browser. When the client is a MetaCard stack it become buggy. When the version of the client-side stack is 2.4 then nothing happens. No error dialogs, but also no results whatsoever. When the version of the client-side stack is 2.5 then it does was it is supposed to, but only on the *first* try. On subsequent tries with v2.5, MC says error : previous request not completed. I wait a while, and a socket timeout dialog appears ... everytime!!! What is going on ??? Inference : It seems like a socket is being remaining open that needs to be closed. This is not something we would normally need to attend to when we're using simple syntax like put url myURL. Therefore, I believe that it is a BUG [for MacOS-Classic]. I hope I'm wrong and that there is something simple that I am overlooking. Help! Alain Farmer __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: CGI in Mac Classic (8.6)
Hello Robert and y'all, Alain, you may want to provide a few more details of your setup as the above is somewhat confusing. Server-side = MacPPC running WebStar. HyperCard-based CGI program with the script at the bottom of this post. Problem = When the HTTP request comes from a web browser (Netscape 4.7.2 in this case), then the CGI does exactly what it's supposed to. But, OTOH, when the request comes a MetaCard 2.4 stack. e.g. by using MC's built-in syntax for doing this (get url myURL), is does NOT work at all. When the request comes a MetaCard 2.5 stack, again using the same native MC syntax (get url myURL), then it works once. Subsequent requests from the MC 2.5 client result in this error msg Error previous request not completed and eventually followed up by this msg: socket timeout 132.208.44.158:8016925. The IP in this last error-msg is my server's IP (the one hosting my HC-based CGI). Where are the sockets coming in from? Not on the server I think. According to the error-msg it is the *server*. As I understand, your CGI talks to a web server program (are you using MacHTTP or sth else?)... WebStar (which in turn uses MacHTTP, I believe). using AppleEvents. That is how the CGI protocol is implemented in Mac OS Classic. It's AppleEvents or nothing in this case. The web server talks to a client using HTTP protocol. If the client uses an MC stack instead of a normal web browser, it still has to talk HTTP to the server. I totally agree with you, and this is indeed the case. So if there is a problem, it would seem to have nothing to do with your CGI per se but with the client stack. At first blush, it does indeed seem to be a problem with the CLIENT. The web-browser client handles it perfectly, but the MC clients don't. Hence the easy conclusion that it is the client who is a fault. But what about the 2nd error-message that points the finger at my SERVER? What if the server's CGI is not providing *all* the required HTTP-headers that are needed by the MC-2.5-client? Web browsers, you see, are rather tolerant when it comes to HTTP headers. Not long ago, and for several years, all of my CGI programs did NOT provide ANY HTTP-headers at all.. none.. nada .. and yet it worked liked a charm. It still does work without any HTTP headers at all when the client is a commonly-used web-browser. Or are you trying having the client stack bypass the server and talk directly to CGI? If so, your CGI must act as a server not as a CGI then. No. Not at this stage of the game. But I will be soon, when I complete my first MetaCard-based BLOG client, e.g. direct communication to server-side programs via XML-RPC. Btw RPC stands for Remote Procedure Call. Robert Thanks for trying, Robert, but I'm afraid my problem remains un-solved. Below are my client-side and server-side components needing to be debugged : = Server-side CGI = on appleEvent class,event,sender if class is WWW* and event is sdoc then put the short date into content put the number of chars of content into cLength get minHeadersHTTP(cLength) content reply it else pass appleEvent end if end appleEvent function minHeadersHTTP contentLength put the numToChar of 13 the numToChar of 10 into crlf put HTTP/1.0 200 OK crlf into headers put Server: MC/2.3 ID/ACGI crlf after headers put MIME-Version: 1.0 crlf after headers put Content-type: text/html crlf after headers put Content-Length: contentLength crlf crlf after headers return headers end minHeadersHTTP = Client-side MC stack = Download it (608 bytes) : http://ufp.uqam.ca/MC/clientStack.sit __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: CGI in Mac Classic (8.6)
Hello y'all, Thanks to all of those kind folks that responded to my pleas for help with my MetaCard-based client stacks and server-side CGI scripting. My 'weird' problem has been solved by Eric Holst of Thinker Toys, Inc. Below is the solution he proposed to me, which I tried, and which I have since adopted. Your problem is NOT with your cgi or the servers but w/ MC itself. The MC URL commands used to work perfectly but were changed ( I believe in v 2.1) and have been screwed up ever since, both in MC RR. The solution is for you to stop trying to get the URL cmds in MC to work. Instead go to this URL, download the altURL stack. It contains a library of alternative commands. It works. And so it did! http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/Downloads.htm Thank you Eric Holst, Alain Farmer __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Jumping together
Hello Richmond and y'all, I think that now is the time for there to develop a multiplicity of GUI front-ends on the Metacard engine so we can all feel happy in our xTalking. Check out the MetaCard-based FreeGUI project: http://www.egroups.com/group/freegui :)) Everyone is welcome to join in on the fun! ;-) Alain Farmer FreeGUI coordinator __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: Interface on top of IDE
Hello, It remains to be seen if RR will remove the restriction allowing Rev to be used to develop other IDEs. Reminder : FreeGUI has long ago been granted immunity from this clause, by the man himself, e.g. Kevin. You can use RR (or MC) to contribute to the development of FreeGUI. Just so y'all remember, Alain Farmer __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
Hello Richard MacLemale and y'all, Now, like I said... If I were to be able to trade my 2.5 license right now for a Rev 2.0.1 license, in an even trade, I would do it and Revolution would have one more user. Revolution wouldn't make any money off of me right now, but they're not going to anyway because I'm not going to spend $300. This sums up rather well my gut-feeling on this issue as well. MC and RR have merged into one.. so should we, but not by immediately dishing out more cash. Our investment in MC should 'port' to RR without any hassle whatsoever. That's what would make us happy. ;-) Alain Farmer __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: RDF Metacard
Hello Rodney and y'all, If anyone on the list has used RDF (http://www.w3.org/rdf/) in conjunction with Metacard ... Quite relevant to this list. Not off-topic at all. I'd be interested in getting in touch... The FreeGUI/FreeCard people are also interested in this. please email me off list. Please include us. :) And the whole list while you're at it, e.g. it's relevant to us all. Listening at port n, ;-) Alain Farmer __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Standalone Builder question
Hello jbv, I'm about to do something I haven't done before : build a MC standalone for Windows on a Mac (OS 9). So I guess I simply need to select the MC Win engine and that's all, right ? Affirmative. can I move resources like ask answer dialogs to my stack on Mac (before building the standalone of course) so that they'll be recognized on Win ? Yes. Go forth and be happy! ;-) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Standalone Builder question
You may have to type the path to the win-engine manually, since the choose button will not show the mc.exe, but then it works... Very good point, Klaus. My *easy* workaround is to put both engines in the same folder. In the build standalone dialog, you select the Mac engine, and thereby get the full path to the folder that contains both engines. All you have to do is change the last item of the path, e.g. the filename, so that it builds with mc.exe instead. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Buggy post url cmd - socket stays open
Hello Scott and y'all, I have a persistant problem with the post url syntax of MetaCard 2.5, as I did with 2.4 as well. The client is a MetaCard 2.5 stack with the following handler in a button : on mouseUp put http://www.giguere.uqam.ca/; into myHost put myHost XA/MenusXApost.cgi into myURL if the openSockets is empty then post field 1 to url myURL if the result is not empty then answer the result else answer it else beep end if end mouseUp The CGI program on the server-side is a HyperCard-based CGI which performs marvelously. It returns the minimum set of HTTP headers required by MetaCard. The proof of this is that the first click on the above button indeed returns what it is supposed to. Btw, I am using Webstar 2.1 on MacOS 8.6 on the server-side. The problem arises after the first click of this button. On the second and subsequent clicks of this button, the handler beeps, e.g. the openSockets is not empty which, IOW, means that the socket remains open after the first click. In fact, it (the socket) *never* closes, and this inhibits it from doing its thing more than once. My diagnostic, therefore, is that there is a bug in MC's post command whereby the socket that is opened is never closed. Please fix this *bug* by making the socket close automatically ASAP after the reply is received by the MC client. Or give us the new syntax we need to *close* the open sockets ourselves. If you disbelieve my account, then feel free to download a copy of my client stack which exhibits this problem : http://ufp.uqam.ca/MC/test_url_stuff.mc.zip Thank you for your time and earnest work, :) Alain Farmer NB: This is relatively URGENT for me. Please respond as soon as you can [Scott]. It has nothing to do with the interface; this is clearly an engine issue. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Buggy post url cmd - socket stays open
Hello, Hi Alain, Try this witch works for me perfectly from MC 2.32 to 2.5: set httpheaders to Content-type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded return post fld 1 to url myURL Hope this help. Thank you for the attempt, Pierre, but I tried it just now and my problem remains unchanged. My client stack is running on top of MacOS 8.6 ; do you have the same setup as me? Perhaps this socket bug only affects those using the classic MacOS, or perhaps just a bug in versions of MacOS less than 9.x ... Any further ideas? Distressed, Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Buggy post url cmd - socket stays open
Bravo Yennie, you're a genius! :)) repeat until the openSockets is empty close socket (line 1 of the openSockets) end repeat The above makes it work. I am thrilled! :)) The close socket syntax is not documented anywhere. Or perhaps it is only my Help stacks that are too dated. Is it possible that my Help stacks were not upgraded to 2.5 along with the engine? Is this a 'separate' step? Thanks to y'all three for helping me so. Bonus points go to Yennie for actually solving the problem. What would I do without you MC veterans! This list is essential. :)) Regards, Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
mcnews.rev
Hello Scott Rossi and y'all, go stack url http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/mcnews.rev; Excellent work, Scott. The stack works marvelously. It is also very pretty. You are obviously a professional. A tip of the hat to ya! Alain PS: I ran the stack with MetaCard 2.5. I was glad to see that there were no Rev-only features to crash the party. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: An informal poll....
How many, who have purchased licenses, use MC/Rev to build standalones, that will be distributed to others? I don't create much for my own use. 99% of everything I do, is for distribution, to produce income. The rest of you? The same, there. Me too. Sounds like there is still room for a genuine HyperCard successor that is free, open-source, easier to use, and without *any* artificial *limits*. I'm alluding to *FreeCard*, of course, which currently requires more work than there is help/labour to do it, but if we are determined enough, we *CAN* pull this off. Here are some of the ways we could go about creating the GUI portion of FreeCard : * Evolve it as a clone of HyperCard, as we're doing now, with MC (and with RR too if some adjustments are made). Kevin has granted FreeGUI an exemption from their clause prohibiting the development of a competing RAD with RR. * Now that the MC-GUI has been become open-source, an alternative would be to work directly on the MC-GUI to improve it -- evolve it into FreeCard's GUI. * Once we get the XML stuff worked out (current work), the FreeCard engine will be able to generate its own GUI, as ultimately it will have to. But are xCard folks willing to start with something very modest then work our way up to the feature sets of MC/RR and then beyond? * I have been considering lately using PHP4 to create a web-only version of FreeGUI. And now that I have learned PHP, I realize joyfully that PHP is a scriptingLanguage and its syntax is relatively close to HyperTalk. Plus it is **hugely** popular, there are tons of samples docs, even complete [CMS] systems which are open source and free, etc. And because it is open source, it's source code can be modified to make it more like MetaTalk (and more like HyperTalk too). Which of these four alternatives is the most attractive to those empowered among us who insist on taking charge of their own destiny? C'mon folks! Let's get off this merry-go-round once and for all! Alain Farmer __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: Launching a local file in the default browser
Hello, Here's some help : The following puts up a compiler error... get send open file tURL to Finder do it as AppleScript put the result You are not quoting your arguments. Try this : put quote tURL quote into tURL put quote Finder quote into tAPP get send open file tURL to tAPP do it as AppleScript put the result Any offerings? Still much needed here! Here is an AppleScript droplet that tells you what the Creator and Filetype of the file dropped on it are. It is coded as a droplet, but it could be adapted such that the fileReference is passed a parameter. An *easy* task that will be left to the reader to accomplish. http://ufp.uqam.ca/pan/misc/ShowCreatorAndType.sit Hope this helps, Alain F __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: MC IDE
Hello Richard, Monte, and y'all, What in FreeGUI has earned your recommendation to devote time to working on it? I haven't played with it much since last year, so I may well be missing something. For a die-hard HyperCard user forced to endure MC/RR's complexity, FreeGUI is the best interface for the MC-engine. In *most* regards, FreeGUI is identical to HC, including : menubar, dialogs, background behavior, the message box' behavior, etc. In fact, it is so close to HyperCard's GUI because our original aim was to 'clone' HyperCard as-is. But even in the early stages, we began integrating some key MC features that we wanted our 'HyperCard' to have: native colorization, custom properties, a richer set of properties, and several other gems. So our aim became to take advantage of as much of MC as we deemed appropriate and in a simpler more HC-like manner that preserves the simplicity and elegance of HC while masking the complex aspects that HC users don't want to bother with. There was a plan to port FreeGUI to Rev and, as I have pointed many times, Rev users are legitimately allowed to help develop FreeGUI with Rev, but other priorities have inexorably taken precedence over this port to Rev. It is not a BIG deal to do so, since MC Rev both use the same engine, but these GUIs are somewhat dissimilar when it comes to the specifics. Ex: the metacard menubar is in the mctools.mc stack ; I'm betting that Rev has a different setup. I have not been able to port FreeGUI to Rev, but anyone in our group (btw 75+ members) is welcome to do so. I am presently focusing my efforts on the development of the XML-based file-format of FreeCard. This work will merge with FreeGUI when I'm done scripting the mass-export of all of the components of FreeGUI to our XML file-format. FreeCard will be able to parse, process, store its info, properties etc... via its Java underpinings, because the interpreter of our xTalk scriptingLanguage (FreeScript) won't be completed yet. A friend of mine which is a Java expert, specialized in compiler/interpreter design, will be joining our team soon. The formal syntax (+ spec) of our FS scriptingLanguage is already done, albeit we are likely to make some changes before going to press. So, as you can, FreeGUI development has languished but there is still a lot going on to make FreeCard a reality that everyone is going to *flip* over! :)) FreeCard will be able to import stacks from HC, SC, MC and Rev. There will be a script to port everything over without requiring any user intervention. The FC team is familiar with the specificities of each one of the GUIs and differences in their scriptingLanguage, in order to make the port as effortless as possible. Runtime will be glad to hear that the FC-engine will be open-source and .. here's the kicker.. FC could support Rev's GUI as well as the MC-engine does now, which means that they could choose the engine they wish at any time, without jeopardizing their business. If FreeCard becomes better, then use it without any strings attached. Might sound premature at this point, but.. you never know! ;-) Runtime/Kevin will also be glad to hear that FreeGUI will never be a clone of Rev. Bolstered by an engine which will provide us with a rich diverse set of new features, FreeGUI is going to be 'exquisitely unique', radically different from Rev. Diversity is GOOD! :)) What in FreeGUI has earned your recommendation to devote time to working on it? I have worked a LOT on it. Hundreds of hours. One work experience fellow which I trained and managed. I have also contributed a lot of help to my fellow xCard fans on several lists. I hope (but I don't expect) that this has earned me some consideration from my fellow xCarders which, in turn, might be inclined to 'reciprocate'. The goal and the means are clearly 'noble' as well as in the best interest of many xCard fans. And.. it is *possble*, albeit many sympathetic lurkers may not be as confidant about this as I am. That's life! Meanwhile I do what *I* can to make it happen. It's the best anyone can ever do. I haven't played with it much since last year, so I may well be missing something. Thanks for the 'nod', Richard. At least there is still some doubt in your mind as to the relevance progress of FreeGUI/FreeCard. As I pointed out in this letter, FreeGUI hasn't progressed much lately, but it works!, with MetaCard, and it could work with Rev if someone endeavours to make it so. All my 'free' time is being invested in FreeCard, at the moment, with results that will bear fruit in the near future. :)) Stay tuned folks, Alain F __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: MC IDE
Hello, Hiding/deactivating undesirable or not needed elements could unclutter the display. However, the large memory requirements will likely remain and so will the background activity to name a few things that affect some of my work. Plus this will complicate the Rev IDE even further, hencefore making it potentially less stable. Sounds like y'all need a compatible alternative that is far simpler than the Rev IDE. One where you don't need to strip anything away ; only *adding* on what you need. Consequently, the memory requirements of this *simpler* IDE will evidently be much smaller. Less clutter, less RAM ... and, therefore, more stable and easy to use. Yup! You guessed it. I have been alluding to FreeGUI! Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;-) Alain F __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Corrupted stack access
Any way to get at these buttons? Ouch! The only thing I know of is to drop the stack on MSWord and go hunting! You will get better results with BBEdit. Good luck, Alain F __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Creating folder in OS 9
Hello Karl, I'm attempting to create a folder in Mac OS 9 (under MC 2.4.3) using something like: create folder tPath It works fine here! For some reason, it's simply not creating this folder, and returning a Can't create folder in the result. Because the folder already exists, or the name of the folder is not a valid folder-name, or something. It's doing this on my computer while running in Classic, and it's also doing this for other people who are booting into Mac OS 9.x. I'm using MetaCard 2.5 on a G3 running Classic 8.6.2. I have not been much help alas, [shrug] Alain F __ Do you Yahoo!? Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 http://search.yahoo.com/top2003 ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
MC IDE, FreeGUI and an xCard job
Greetings y'all, particularly to those who are interested in MC IDE, Something wonderful has happened to me/us this week. I've got a paying customer who wants to invest in the development of a MetaCard-based authoring system like MetaCard or RunRev, but it has to be even simpler than both of these. Given that I'm the author of the current incarnation of FreeGUI, e.g. a MetaCard-based clone of HyperCard, it should not be surprising that I suggested FreeGUI to this customer. He accepted! This means that he will be investing money in the development of FreeGUI to make it useable and easy enough for this customer's target audience : administrators, teachers and students in 500 schools in Quebec. No, it's not a typo, nor is it a mistake ... *500* schools will be using it as early as this coming summer (thousands of teachers and students). A total breakthrough! :)) The relevance for this group : * FreeGUI has been crafted with MetaCard ; * FreeGUI can easily be adapted to work with Rev ; * FreeGUI is the GUI of FreeCard (which btw they're also interested in) * FreeGUI and MC-IDE have a similar goal : to develop and maintain a free open-source alternative IDE for the MC-engine. Our efforts could therefore be coordinated in order to synergize both our projects, or merged together to form ONE stronger project. * My paying customer allows me to offer someone on this list a *job*, for the next three months minimum, to help me achieve our holy grail of crafting a free open-source authoring system easy enough for non-developers. Yup! A job! The only catch is that you have to be 29 years old or less, and you have to be currently residing in Quebec (preferably in Montreal). And, of course, you have to be competent with MetaCard or RunRev, including TransScript of course. The following would be assets in your favour: experience in GUI design, French language, Java and XML, familiarity with HyperCard. Web-savvyness would be a big plus too ( PHP, mySQL, XML-RPC, secure sockets, etc). So are there any young Montrealers out there looking for some breakthru xCard work ? :)) Please mail your comments [about MC-IDE and FreeGUI integration], as well your CV if you're interested in the job, to the following address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pretty wild, eh! :)) Alain F __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: MC IDE, FreeGUI and an xCard job
Hello Larry and y'all, Will this be one application on one server or 500 separate installations. There are 500 schools that want to use FreeGUI, but the number of licences is another matter. My hypothesis is that each school will want at least one licence so that the school's techie-person can edit scripts longer than 10/20 lines. Maybe more than one for the schools who can afford it. OTOH, maybe not one-per-school if the schools organize themselves whereby one scriptor handles several schools. The gist of it is that there will be as many MC or RR licences sold as there technies wishing to script some scripts longer than the script-limit of the Starter Kit; otherwise, they will surely opt for a free Starter Kit. If it's the latter I assume that the customer will have to pay for 500 engine licenses, correct? Each participating school will purchase as many as they see fit for their independent programming needs. The GUI may be free but doesn't the engine have to be paid for? The Starter-Kit's only limitation is in the length of the scripts that one can edit. Check out its licencing if you are not entirely convinced that my approach is 100% legitimate. I know some development tools specifically state you can't develop a product that is basically the same as the development tool. Runtime Revolution, for example. ;-) Does that apply in this case? Runtime's Revolution licencing does not apply in this case because FreeGUI has been specifically granted an exception from this clause by Kevin himself (the kind CEO of Runtime, of course). Besides, FreeGUI has not been adapted yet to run on Rev, albeit it will be soon. Larry Huisingh Chug a chug a chug .. choo! choo! (e.g. The Little Train That Could) Alain F __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: MC-REV Event similar to AppleEvent?
Hello, I need to be able to update a stack/card script in a standalone, and I cannot because of the limit imposed ... Hummm .. Seems easy enough to me. Integrate one or more do statement[s] in your generic handler. The script that gets 'done' can be located elsewhere, e.g. in a field, in a file, from a URL... If I had a 'single' handler in the script that could handle 'all' stack messages, I 'might' be able to update the script. That's much tougher, e.g. to NOT include the *handlers* in the script at all. My approach requires that these handlers be in the script but, because they merely do code that is external to the script, the script never needs to be changed. You update the field, file or URL instead to change what will be 'done'. Hope this helps, Alain F __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Intelligent Agents......
Hello Richmond Mathewson, I am in the process of submitting a Master's proposal at the University of Abertay with a view to doing research into intelligent agents for teaching xTalk to teachers.. Very interesting project, Rich. I did some undergraduate studies in AI at the Univ of Toronto. I've been working on the idea of xCard-based agents for years now. It has also been a subject of *many* exchanges on the HyperCard list. So I would be pleased if you could keep us abreast on your progress. Btw, I created an AI-based tutoring system with 5 levels of interaction (demo, tutorial, CBT, coaching, formative and summative evaluations). Moreover, the system's goal was to teach HyperTalk to teachers. I did this back in 1992. It's still around, but much of it has drifted into bugginess, and I have learned so much since then, that I am a bit embarassed to release it as it is. I could give you some tips though. If there is a LOT of interest in this group for MC-based agents .. I mean people REALLY interested and willing to dedicate some time to it .. then, who knows, I may just launch an initiative with y'all to make our xCards into the very-best environment for agent research/development the World has ever seen! The kicker: contracts for cash, work-from-home kinda deal. Entrepreneurially yours, ;-) Alain F __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Intelligent Agents......
Hello Pierre Sahores, Chipp Walters, and y'all who are interested in MetaCard-based AGENTS w/out going too much into it, can you explain what an Intelligent Agent does in MC? Perhaps an example? I'm interested in learning more:-) When discussing software agents, as we are now, one has to almost immediately talk about agent *architectures*, because software agents, unlike their human counterparts in 'espionnage' circles, are especially interesting when they work together as coordinated teams. I will attempt, nonetheless, to define a single agent. It's a software program that can autonomously accomplish the task it was crafted-or-evolved for. It automatically adapts to unexpected changes in its working environment (the Internet, an intranet, or a single desktop system). Because these changes are unexpected, a rigid algorithm does not make the grade. Unexpected situations changes require an intelligent adaptation to maximize gains minimize losses. And this is all happening dynamically, of course, which means that the agent has to be active and perpetually reviewing itself ( its programming and the agent's impacts on its environment, including other agents ). In sum, here are the capabilities an agent needs to be truly autonomous. The agent must : * be conscious of its environment ; * be aware of its self ; * be able to grow and prune its knowledge ; * be able to transform itself (adaptation) ; * be able to transform itself over time (evolution) ; * coordinate its activities with other agents ; * communicate fluently with human-user[s] ; * adapt to the human-users' preferences, habits, etc. Hummm ... Pretty good definition of a single agent after all, albeit I alluded to other agents several times in my above description. The main reason why having MORE THAN ONE AGENT working together is a **really** good idea is that human-level intelligence is [nearly] impossible to achieve as single programs. According to Marvin Minsky in the Society of Mind, and other authors too, even *human* intelligence may in fact be a variety of different intelligences that work together synergetically to form 'The One' that we are aware of. The theoretical foundations of the above rest upon some very solid principles of hard as well as 'soft' science. Namely: the dynamics of open-ended systems that are far from equilibrium. To deal with a constant influx of new energy, these self-organizing systems evolve dissipative structures (order) that *reverse* the universal tendency towards entropy (disorder). The gist of it is that *order* emerges [by chance] from chaos. This spontaneous order feeds on itself to create ever higher forms of order. Collective properties emerge at a systemic level that are NOT sustained by any given component but is more like a regularity due to the high number of *interactions between* the components. As the old saying goes : The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. On a practical basis, this means that we can create AI systems by creating societies of coordinated autonomous agents. Each singular agent can/should be a very simple program that accomplishes one very modest goal. Complex goals are accomplished by making the agents collaborate amongst themselves. Not a rigid architecture, where all the links are PRE-established, but rather a runtime env where the relationships among the agents are negotiated amongst themselves (and guided by the user, of course). IOW, a dynamic open-ended society of agents from which systemic properties will emerge from their interactions with themselves and their environment. If you're thinking that this is how *human* intelligence came about, in our own [social] evolution, then you are indeed an astute reader/thinker. Btw, YES, I am indeed saying that intelligence is a emergent systemic property AND, furthermore, I suspect that [our] intelligence is a *collective* property, e.g. shared by many 'components' at once (humans in this case) but not in any particular component of the system! R-a-d-i-c-a-l, eh! ;-) IOW : If it were not for y'all, I'd be pretty dumb! As would anyone else be in a singular world. We mutually define and expand each others' minds. It just occurred to me that this is a bit like the matrix. You have just been told that you do not have a singular intelligence, albeit you always thought you had, up til now that is! You have selected the blue pill instead of the red one. You cannot turn back, Alice. The matrix (society) *is* your mind. Well .. not yours actually .. everyones! Life is such a TRIP! :)) Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Intelligent Agents......
Hello, How would you see a very basic agent as being able to accomplish all of what you said, in RunRev? This is one of those 64,000 dollar questions of AI, but let me just allude, for now, to several MC features that could be useful to us : * MetaCard multi-platform deployment (serverside as well as clientside) makes it a very good candidate for widely distributed agent-based achitectures. As good as Java for what we need, but a *LOT* less complicated than Java for most people. * MC's web-savvy-ness makes it an excellent for crafting web-based agents. This is *extremely* relevant given the importance and spread of the Internet. Every agent based system currently in the running, and all those that will follow, need to be web-savvy. There's no get around this constraint. Without the web, you're out of the game from the very start. * In case some of you don't know, MC's web-savvy-ness is not limited to getting URLs. It goes as deep as creating your own web protocol with [secure] sockets. Instead of HTTP or FTP, we could have an agent protocol; something like this : agent://ufp.uqam.ca/dispatcher The proverbial HTTP protocol was designed to accomodate the many needs of hypertext. FTP was optimized for quick file transfers. And so on... Our AGENT protocol would be optimized for knowledge-exchange and agent-coordination. * The try .. on error.. control structure which allows a handler to catch its own errors and execute meta-code that can fix the problem, allowing the agent to continue with its on-going mission. As a bonus, it also optimizes performance because it always tries to do the best thing first handles exceptional stuff exceptionally. No un-necessary if .. then .. pre-processing. * MC features GREP, which allows agents to smartly parse informally-structured information. Locating links inside web pages with the help of GREP is a cinch, which means that it s very very easy to create a hyper-bot, with MC, that traverses the web as easily as any web-indexing bot can. * Several people on this list have crafted some XML-RPC stuff from within MC. I am presently seeking some help in this regard. Ian Gordon was kind enough to point me in the right direction, albeit I've not had enough time to follow up on it yet. My development team is about to embark on the open-source development of some XML-RPC capabilities for MetaCard, including compatibility with the blogger API. With the latter our agents will be able to inter-operate with blogs, wikis, and other opensource wares that are very hot right now. In general, XML-RPC capability will allow us to send Remote Procedure Calls to any program that supports XML-RPC, e.g. *LOTS* Do you typically need self-modifying code? Not necessarily. On the one hand, self-modifying code is so dangerous that most operating systems don't allow em to do this. On the other hand, life and intelligence are self-modifying... it's what gives these 'systems' their strength, you might say. I don't have any easy answer[s] for this issue [yet] ... except one, perhaps. We script the agents so that their 'thinking' is data-driven, and their behavior determined at runtime. In plain english, we script the hooks, but all of the [operational] info is stored in external files, fetched by URL, etc. Only these external sources change; not the program itself. If so, aren't RR's script limits somewhat of a problem. Yes. That's why an open source (LGPL) alternative to the MC engine, e.g. FreeCard, is still a crucial project for the xCard community. Also, how do IA's differ with Neural Nets? Expert Systems? Genetic Algorithms? Neural Nets, Expert Systems, Genetic Algorithms are some of the ways that cognitive scientists have attempted to model intelligence with computers. They each have their merits and their shortfalls. None are as effective as we would like them to be. But there is no need to *choose* one at the expense of the others. Each agent's internals are irrelevant at the social level. One agent can be an expert system, another implemented as a neural net, etc. At the social level, where the agents interact with each other, a diversity of implementations is even desirable, because then the agents could collaborate in such a way that they complement each other, e.g. the shortfalls of one agent systemically compensated for by the different strengths of the other agents. I'd be interested in seeing a very simple IA implemented to do something (find the best price online for a product) using RR. Do you know of such an example? I have a HyperCard-based example of a forward-chaining rule-based inference engine. It's very very simple to understand and to use; so much so that you may not see how ths is different from traditional scripting. Here is the URL just in case your interested : http://pan.uqam.ca/cgi-bin/usemod/wiki.pl?Electronics Are we having fun yet ? ;-)) -- I am. Alain F The UFP guy __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance:
Re: Intelligent Agents......
Hello Richard MacLemale and y'all, I've been following the AI discussion with GREAT interest. Excellent, we seem to be generating a groundswell! :)) I've always wanted to write some server based software using metacard ... For years now, it's been possible to create server-side CGI programs with MetaCard (and other xCards too). But our agent idea takes this much further. Imagine P2P MC programs that communicate via the internet, with other [MC] clients that support XML, XML-RPC and blogger API. ... that would control a simulation that teams of 8 people on separate computers on a network would interact with. This will indeed be do-able with the [agent] software we're using and developing. Why not! The essence of it is that we will have the ability to coordinate MC pgms via the web. All kinds of distributed architectures will become possible. AI is not necessarily mandatory but the more complex the program, the cooler the simulation would be. Agreed. You don't necessarily need AI to do it, albeit it might be a big plus when it comes to modelling the systemic impacts of the interactions of all the players. Specifically, this: Years ago, when I was a 5th grade teacher, we took our kids to the Museum of Science and Industry in Tampa, FL (MOSI) and they had a space ship simulator Very interesting! :)) One station operated a robotic arm that was outside the spaceship and you could see it out the window... Each station did something different. All stations had controls monitors. Long ago, I scripted some automation stuff with the HC Serial Port Toolkit (for HyperCard). The toolkit was basically an XCMD to control one/both the serial ports. Does MetaCard or Rev have a similar XCMD to control the serial ports of various computer hardware (PC and Mac), while maintaining cross-platform compatibility? If not the *serial* port, then perhaps another port? (USB, for example). The point, of course, is that with this XCMD (or whatever) we could script automation applications. It was AWESOME. Sounds like a b-l-a-s-t indeed! :)) It was also expensive. It will still be expensive if and when it is implemented as a coordinated set of MetaCard programs, but at least the programming will be cheap, which is not negligeable in these ambitious types of projects. You still need the stations (cheaper these days), the location, the robotic stuff, as well as all the audiovisual material. Don't be discouraged by this, however. Forge ahead! they used several Macintosh computers to monitor the progress of the teams. It would be interesting to find out whether they were using HyperCard for their scripting. ;-) And those 4 people had to be on their toes, obviously, because the kids would do unpredictable things - mistakes they had not anticipated. This is where AI might be helpful. It left a huge, lasting impression on me, because it was educational and it was extremely fun! It was learning and playing and acting and just about the coolest thing I'd ever seen as a teacher. I am sure students of many ages might be thrilled with such an extremely fun way to learn. :) I thought about how cool it would be to be able to put something like that together, but obviously it was too expensive. Using an xCard makes every project seem do-able! ;-) Fast forward to now. For a couple of years I've thought about how cool it would be to write software that would do something similar to what MOSI had. Do it! :) On one level, it could be done purely as entertainment ... Good way to get *funding*. ;-) the server program would track the response time and decision making of each person and assign a score for that position. Another area where AI might be helful : user modeling. The server program would throw in random elements like suddenly appearing hostile ships and whatnot. Or just random in appearance, in order for the teacher to spike the game towards situations where learning will take place [optimally]. This would be an OUTSTANDING project for some of our seniors to put together - writing the code, designing the stations, filming video to be triggered by the server program when ... Are you in a position, as teacher, to locate and create such apprenticeships? Can you put such a team together? What could be more fun? Especially for Trekkies! :)) OR I could see writing something more like the original MOSI simulator, and selling a kit with the software installers for Mac or Windows. That would make money but would not be as much fun. Making money is important too. You choose what is best for you. Personally, I'm inclined to release EVERYTHING that I craft as open-source (LGPL), resorting instead to contracts to earn my living as a value-added consultant. The kicker: I'm increasingly successful at persuading my clients to pay me for my work but to release the results to the open-source community; [strategic] wares and all. It is in their best interest as well
Re: The Get-Post option...
Hello Shari, I think you are misunderstanding the meaning of post. POST sends a request in POST-format to a url, e.g. a CGI app. Both methods ( GET and POST ) submit a request to a web server. Plus the responding appl on the server-side is not necessarily using the CGI protocol. You could use GET or POST to request a PHP page with the form elements as parameters to PHP page-generaion process. The GET method sends these parameters, e.g. EXTRA info, appended to the URL. This URL and its extra information are visible to the user, limited in length, constrained in terms of content (allowed chars) but, the nice thing about them is that they can be bookmarked. SearchEngins use GET so that you can bookmark your search ; not just the page. The POST method sends the EXTRA information appended to the request message as you would attach an attachment to an e-mail message. The extra information does NOT appear in the URL. You cannot bookmark the extra info, as you can with GET, but the URL is clean, the information is more secure because it's less visible, there can be far mor information included with a POST than you could ever put into a URL. I think what you are looking for is an FTP upload? post userList to url http://www.someurl/list.txt; There are more than two methods, e.g. GET and POST. There are also other methods which get much less press than the two former ones. The PUT method, for instance, allows one to store content on a server as a [new] file. Actually I have not done one thing as yet... which is to surf the net for CGI scripts for this... It sounds like they do exist. Right you are, Shari. All you need is a basic MC-based CGI stack; which you can find in MetaCard's tutorials, in the list's archives and, therefore, in the minds of many of your fellow MC-netizens as well. Once you got the basic CGI working, script it so that it creates the file[s] you wish. If it seems way too easy, notably for those of you with some Java experience, then I guess that's why MC stacks/apps could be considered as unsafe in environments requiring security. The web and Java do NOT normally allow writing-to-the-disk with the notable exception of cookies. Have fun! Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Intelligent Agents......
Hello Pierre, Thanks Alain, for sharing this,... My pleasure. :) Runs perfectly after opened it under both HC 2.4.1 and Rev 2.1.2... That's quite a *feat*, indeed, because I have never used Rev before nor do I have it on any of my machines. Thank Runtime I guess, for insuring such good HC-compatibility with a stack crafted with HC 2.3. ATTACHMENT part 2 application/x-stuffit name=Electronics.rev.sit Tsk tsk tsk ... ;-) I am quite astonished, actually, that this got thru the list's filters. Big Brother is watching, but He is not always paying attention. ;-) Regards, Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Intelligent Agents......
Hello Chipp, Alain, any chance your stack (and/or the accompanying stack on Neural Nets) be converted to RR? I'm mostly on PC and don't have HC. I don't know how much trouble it would be, but if it's easy... Plug-and-play, apparently. Pierre has graciously answered for me. :) Are we having fun yet ? ;-)) -- I am. I'm too. Y'all ain't seen *nothing* yet! ;-)) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
PHP versus CGI
Hello Shari, Using .php to mail something is another option. Though I'm not sure how that would differ from cgi. They accomplish the same goal, e.g. web pages generated and customized ondemand, but there are major differences some of which I enumerate here : * PHP is widely-used and popular ; * PHP deals with many of the intricit details ; * PHP is safer than CGI unless you add a lot to CGI ; * PHP is supported by most service providers/hosts ; * PHP is part of the very dominant dev platform: LAMP ; ( Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP/Perl/Python ) ; * PHP is specialized in database access, many DB types. PHP is basically an easier way to generate web pages on the server-side. But easier is a relative term, for us, because we are used to the simplicity of creating CGI programs with an xCard. But for most folks, notably those without xCard knowledge, creating a CGI program to do something as simple as receiving data from a web-form and storing it to disk is a daunting task for these poor lost souls. So there you have it! Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: PHP versus CGI
* PHP deals with many of the intricit details ; Did you mean intrinsic or explicit? ;-) Intricate, e.g. a large number of small details. Can you elaborate? What kind of details? With PHP, all the web-form's elements are automatically assigned to variables, with variable names with the same name as the corresponding form-item, such that you can use them immediately in your script without any hassle whatsoever. With CGI, you have to handle the appleEvent (on a Mac), you have to parse the request, fetch the information of the form, decode the special chars, etc. Then, and only then, can you USE the info submitted in/to your script. That's a lot of extra work, particularly if you're also using any of the environment-variables of HTTP. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Using php
Hello, I need to be able to get what is displayed, not the raw HTML behind it. You are in quite a pickle in this case because MetaCard cannot display raw-HTML as what is displayed in a HTML browser. As I've suggested many many times to Scott, we would need is a player component in the MetaCard-engine, so that can display HTML. Btw, given that *FreeCard* is being programmed in Java, it'll be able to display HTML inside a HTML-player component, and we will be able to embed a FreeCard stack in a web page, as we would embed a Java applet. Barring that, the only solution would be to have a text file or HTML page that's actually updated, not temporarily for one view, but permanently. I am not sure *exactly* what you mean but, following up on what I think you're saying, you can download the raw HTML (with the get url syntax), make the changes you wish, then upload the file to the server (replacing the former one). This final step could be accomplished with the PUT method, or by FTP, from within MC/Rev of course. OTOH, if you resort to a CGI program/stack instead of a PHP solution, then you can make your CGI return whatever you script it to return. Your CGI can, therefore, return just the data you need, without *any* un-necessary HTML clutter. Have I been helpful? Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: PHP versus CGI
Welcome to the fray Alex, However, I've never used libCGI for MC so 'scuse me for butting in :-) OTC, please join us. :) Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Win98 Issue - Launch App on Remote Volume
Hello Scott Rossi. Our (MC 2.4.2) app is designed to launch a second app ... works fine and reliably when run locally. When this is run under Win98 from a remote volume, our app runs fine but will not launch the 2nd app. The error returned in the result is Not opened My guess is that it is a SECURITY issue. *Executing* a program on another computer is almost always proscribed, e.g. not allowed. Therefore, you might want to look at the security config for that program. Set it to allow execute access but, of course, if-and-only-if you have the necessary account and authentication information. On a Mac, I would make sure that Program Linking is on. Hopefully not restating the obvious, Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: htmltext
Hello Rick Rice, OK, I just figured out that if I add the a and /a tags the link tag works. ie aLinkcalled hemopoiesis/Link/a I have been doing HTML since 1994, and I never heard of the libk tag. Here is how you create an anchor : a href=#MyAnchorNameclick on this anchor/a -- in the TOC at the top of the page a name=MyAnchorName -- somewhere in the page below the above. -- To create a normal link : a href=http://ufp.uqam.ca;click on this anchor/a -- However, I still don't have a clue how to use the img src= tag. img src=http://ufp.uqam.ca/Pan/graphics/headers/header5.jpg; This will integrate an image into the page. I would really appreciate the help, especially in the form of an example. Here you go! ;-)) Thanks Rick The next logical step toward more list-relevance is that you can script the coding of these HTML snipets. For ex: function imageTag theURL put quote theURL quote into theURL return img src= theURL end imageTag function link theURL,anchor put quote theURL quote into theURL return a href= theURLanchor /a end link To create an image that you can click on : on mouseUp put field imageURL into imageURL put field destURL into pageURL get link(pageURL, imageTag(imageURL)) answer it end mouseUp Easy, eh! :)) Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: htmltext
Hello, For those who have html-interpreted email readers, all your carefully included angle brackets are interpreted as tags so the text is displayed as if links rather than raw! Would you like to re-post ... Thanks! A text file that contains my previous post: http://ufp.uqam.ca/mc/htmlTags.txt Enjoy! Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
xCard client for XML-RPC with PmWiki
Hello y'all, I would just like to give y'all a little advance notice of an upcoming 'event' of interest to all xCarders : I will soon be releasing my new xCard-client for XML-RPC with PmWiki. IOW, browse update a PmWiki from within an xCard stack. for more impact, recall that Rev Pan both use wiki for artefact-sharing, community-building, etc. For you ol' timers out there, it is kind of like the Pan inventory stack which generated our previous web sites, but now the frontend is a wiki instead of a static site. With some modifications, it could be adapted to frontend MicroSoft's Web Services. The Big Leagues, folks, and not just because MS is involved. No download link yet. This is just a teaser. Stay tuned for the first beta release of my xCard client for XML-RPC with PmWiki .. in the next couple of days (or so). Did I mention that it will be free, e.g. open source AND free-of-charge. It goes without saying, but for those of you who don't know me well, I thought it best to mention it. After all, new members still join this list, despite our steved-ness. Cheers! Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Post command
Hello, I need help, folks. I have been creating a MetaCard stack that submits to a server-side PHP program. The payload of the post cmd is of type text/xml and, specifically, it is the XML that an XML-RPC program expects. The above submit works fine, and the server-side program returns what it is supposed to, b-u-t ... and here's the problem ... when the content is lengthy, my client-side stack does NOT wait long enough for the whole reply, and breaks-off the HTTP connection too soon. What do I need to do to make my MC client WAIT for the server-side program to complete the transmission of its reply? Should I be using the urlStatus function? Btw, this XMLRPC stack will be shared with the community and will, therefore, help a *LOT* of people; notably the Rev and Pan wikis, not to mention a school commission, a network of consultants, the lab I work for, etc. So please help me if you can, Alain F __ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Intersect
Hello Simon, Was there not a way to detect on mouseMove if the cursor had rolled over a target such as an img or fld? on mouseEnter set the filename of me to sampleOVER.gif end mouseEnter on mouseLeave set the filename of me to sampleNORMAL.gif end mouseLeave __ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Problem with DontWrap plus announcement
Hello Alejandro, PS: I have just completed the scripting of a MC stack that automatically transforms the layout of the cards into the corresponding DHTML in a WYSIWYG manner. Is this like Adobe Golive or Macromedia Dreamweaver? Very much like them. In some respects, mine is better, in other respects theirs is better. Example they allow you to manipulate the tables interactively, while mine does not. Mine creates a set of fields instead. A bit of a hack, but it does the trick. Rowspans colspans are implemented by deleting one+ fields and stretching the existing ones. The code I generate is impeccable, though ; much better than any HTML-generating tools I have ever experienced. posting of the HTML files and images to the selected server. Using FTP? This is still a work-in-progress. Maybe a simple post command would do the trick. It would/will if/when my RPC stuff was/is ready. In XML-RPC the payload posted can be anything you wish, including binary files. Does anyone here have any suggestion(s) for me on how to implement a file-transfer capability from within MC ? the code that this stack generates is 100% standards-compliant and runs on ALL versions of ALL major browsers, even ... Explorer 6. This is a major achievement, Alain! Thank you. I *will* take a bow on this one. ;-) I hope that in future versions you ... Or someone else who cares too, e.g. it's open source. ... could include an extensive tutorial on converting mc scripts in javascripts. I have *NOT* achieved this capability *AT ALL*. The pgm creates the JavaScript it needs for some simple operations, like rollovers for example. Btw it's an awesome IDEA though that I hope someone pursues. Eric Engle had wrote a very interesting article, but he did not give too much examples. Mapping HyperTalk and JavaScript is a monumental task, perhaps even un-do-able because the DOM of the web and the 'headspace' of HyperCard are *radically* different. Congratulations! Keep up your good work! Thank you for encouraging me, Alejandro. :) Stay tuned for more news and a release. :)) Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Problem with DontWrap plus announcement
Hello Richard I've only seen it in fields where the contents have no word breaks. What sort of data are you viewing? Thanks for the help. I will make the stack available to y'all before this day ends. Thanks, Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: HTML Colors
Hello, Anyone have the secret for converting rgb to webcolors? It must be in the air ... i have just tackled this problem myself in the context of creating a WYSIWYG DHTML editor with MetaCard. :) Jeanne's solution, below, is the BEST one. It is how it SHOULD be done. It's what baseConvert was designed for. Btw, are y'all thinking, like me, that this RGB to HEX conversion should have been a bundled feature? Web colors are just 3 base-16 numbers, one for each item of the RGB numeric color: put # into theWebColor -- leading # repeat for each item myItem in theColorNumber get baseConvert(myItem,10,16) if the length of it is 1 then put 0 before it put it after theWebColor end repeat Salutations, Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Problem with DontWrap plus announcement
Alain wrote: I will make the stack available to y'all before this day ends. Here it is : http://ufp.uqam.ca/mc/cspi.sit It is a suite of MC 2.5 stacks that I have recently crafted, including my new WYSIWYG MetaCard-to-DHTML conversion stuff : one final 'product' (sample) and one generic WYSIWYG editor. So far, it only supports fields and images; various styles of buttons will be implemented in subsequent version(s). NB: This is not release yet. It's only a stable beta. Enjoy, Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Problem with DontWrap plus announcement
Hello, The dontWrap property when set to false still won't wrap text which has no spaces in it. This was my problem. Try inserting a space in your string and see if it doesn't work correctly. This turned out to be the solution. :) I suppose this could be considered a bug. Or just someone like myself who has been working too earnestly to see the forest that the tree were hiding. A really dumb mistake on my part. Thank you very much for your help Richard, Chipp and the others who kindly responded to my plea for help. :) Regards, Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
MetaCard-based WYSIWYG editor
Hello Klaus, A tiny word of warning about this little handler WOULD have been a good idea! ;-) on refreshUserImages if the number of card images 0 then put getCurrentFolder() into currentFolder repeat with x = 1 to the number of card images get currentFolder User/Images/ userImageRelativePath(x) set the filename of card image x to it end repeat end if end refreshUserImages The gist of this is that all the background parts that appear on all cards are only done once and separately, and the users parts are the CARD parts. IOW it's how my system distinguishes between GUI vs USER parts. I opened editeur, looked around a bit ... Yesterday's editeur was crude. I fixed it overnight. I will release it within an hour. The images (GUI and USER) now appear as they should. I discovered a flaw that is easy to workaround : when you add new images, you select them with a answer-file dialog BUT .. here is the quirk .. the image(s) *have to* be at the same level as the app or lower. Above the level of the app, my function getRelativePath(wholePath) breaks down. It is like this in many OTHER cases too, notably with web sites. All URLs any site are all WITHIN the hierarchy of the web server software; NOT ABOVE. (my french is much worse that i always pretend :-D Sorry about the language barrier. The person mandating this project insists on having *everything* in French; everything they SEE that is! Since you have looked at my code (smile), you have probably noticed that it is coded bilingually, e.g. english AND french. I do this intentionally becoz using french names for variables, properties, and so on, is GUARANTEED to NOT conflict with MetaCard's namespace (which in only in english, of course). and closed that stack again... But its destroystack property was set to false... Then i opened one of my current projects and my heart stopped missing a beat, since all my INTERNAL images were GONE! Oh my God! I never suspected that this might occur. Not ever. Wow! What a slipup! I beg your pardon. I will set the destroystack property as you suggest. What happened is this : my Editor starts using a stack that continues to be in the stacksInUse after you have CLOSED the stack. I don't stop using on close because the editor is only ONE of 7 stacks in this suite which share this stackInUse. Tonnerre de Brest!, as Cpt. Haddock used to say :-D Boy am i GLAD that you ended your above sentence with a SMILE instead of a FROWN. I will endeavour to make it better. Thank you for this important feedback. :) I was totally clueless but fortunately i quitted without saving... On a sauver les meubles! ;-)) ( english translation: the hull is breached, captain, but she will NOT founder! ) Then i searched and found the little sucker... What did you think of my coding style ? Were you able to infer how it works by examination ? Was the code self-explanatory ? Did it SPEAK to you ? Pssst! if you answered YES to the last question, then you should probably consult some qualified help. ;-))) I will give it another try ;-) My next version will be online in about 30 minutes, e.g. the time it takes me to finish responding to this and a few other e-mails. :) Au revoir Klaus Major Translated : See ya ! ;-) Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Update on Alain's WYSIWYG editor
Hello y'all, Here is an UPDATED version of the WYSIWYG editor : http://ufp.uqam.ca/mc/cspi.sit Improvements include : * Problem with relativePath function is fixed. * Images appear every time stack is opened. * Substacks (dialogs) display correctly too. * Images are displayed in the web browser. * On close the editor flushes itself from memory. * You should still quit MC after using my editor. Enjoy, Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Update on Alain's WYSIWYG editor
Oops! I forgot to mention that there is a wiki page on this subject at : http://pan.uqam.ca/cgi-bin/usemod/wiki.pl?EditeurWYSIWYG Hello y'all, Here is an UPDATED version of the WYSIWYG editor : http://ufp.uqam.ca/mc/cspi.sit Improvements include : * Problem with relativePath function is fixed. * Images appear every time stack is opened. * Substacks (dialogs) display correctly too. * Images are displayed in the web browser. * On close the editor flushes itself from memory. * You should still quit MC after using my editor. Enjoy, Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Update on WYSIWYG editor of Alain
Hello Hugh, I was impressed with the beta version a while ago, Alain ... You will *love* this one then, because it has been much improved in the last 10 days. Ive been working full-time on it every day. :)) ...but could not work out how to apply the DHTML conversion to an existing stack. Do I understand correctly that the design has to be done in your program? Okay .. you caught me! ;-) As things stand right now, my newest editor cannot be applied as-is to any stack. What we have is a toolbar that can markup any stack (textStyle, alignment, font, textSize, images, etc) AND secondly my Projet stack which fully implements the stack-to-DHTML feature that we are all so interested in. I have reached the point, though, where the Projet is done. Concretely, this means that I will invest some time-and-effort into making it *generic* enough for other similar projects. IOW, a technology rather than a specific-tool. Basically here is what needs to be done to achieve this : I need to port the scripts from the Projet stack to the Toolbar palette. Not just this, of course. Ex: I also have to make sure it only targets stacks that WANT to be marked-up in this manner, e.g. some handshaking to avoid adding a whole bunch of custom properties to non-DHTML stacks. And so on .. undoubtedly! ;-) Thank you for your interest, :)) Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: converting stacks to html
Hello RCS and y.all, Converting stacks to html...hasn't everyone figured out how to do this? It's quite simple actually... I have been hand-coding HTML output from within stacks for years. Most of the material on this subject in the Pan comes from yours-truly. If I did not craft it then I am at least aware of it, for I am the Pantechnicon.s host. But this is *slightly* different. It allows anyone who can layout a stack to create the equivalent web pages, e.g. WYSIWYG DHTML. Moreover these WYSIWYG DHTML pages will display perfectly on ALL versions of Netscape and Explorer. As recent as MSIE 6.x and as old as Netscape 4.7. It has been reported to me, by my sys.Admin, that it also works well with other recent web browsers like Safari, Konqueror, etc. And I.ve no doubt that it does because the generated code is 99.9% compliant with the standards, even with the E-X-T-R-E-M-E-L-Y fussy MSIE 6.x! Layout a stack in MC, or import one from HC; click a button ; and, voila, you have the corresponding web site. Not just a page, eh! But a WHOLE web *site*, one page per card. Projection: it currently supports only fields, images, and horizontal-rules, but in the very near future my sponsor wishes the support of the following: * Quicktime * QT * Flash * Buttons * Menus * Checkboxes * RadioButtons Enough commercial already, eh! ;-) In the coming days, I will be releasing a generic version to be shared with y'all ( licence=LGPL ). Stay tuned, Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: alwaysBuffer not set...
--- Wouter I look at MC and RR as stacks interacting with an engine ... but the impression is growing that what is called the engine, is something composed of stacks and the engine. Where are the borders between the IDE, stacks and the engine? Very *VERY* good point, Wouter. Where is it? .. indeed! Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Undocumented changes
Hello Wouter and y'all, Only wondering why slowly all those little differences are creeping in. Undocumented little changes, to be discovered by (sometimes enervated :-) users. This may be stretching this out of context but I would like to chipin that more more software, particularly web stuff, requires an EMPIRICAL approach because the docs are either absent or in very-serious need of some refactoring. I *love* good docs, but when they are not forthcoming ( as in this case ), then you have to make do as best you can and seek a little bit of help from your friends ( on this list ). :) Two (hundred) heads are better than one! ;-) Good hunting! Alain F. __ Do you Yahoo!? Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/ ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: How to do clean install of MetaCard?
Hello Richard and y'all The FlipsIDE plugin will make everything really smooth ... just one click and you switch from Rev to MC (or to Rossiland or to Constellation or anything else you want). Including FreeGUI ? ;-)) Set a preference and it becomes zero clicks. :) Great design guideline, e.g. utter simplicity and no unnecessary tasks for the user. Keep up the marvelous work. :-) Regards, Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: I use MetaCard
Hello Mathewson and y'all At present my GUI that I am developing for xTalk will run on both RR and MC ... Yet another alternative GUI for the MetaCard-engine eh! ;-) * The original classic MetaCard GUI * The evolution of this Classic, e.g. MetaCard-IDE * Rev's GUI, of course. * A MC-based HyperCard clone called FreeGUI. * And now *yours* too! ;-) Welcome aboard. The more the merrier. A plurality of choices is far better than a so-called best interface that accomodates ALL because people are not all the same. They vary a lot, and therefore so do their needs and prefs. As long as we are all using the same MC-engine, as we are doing now, then we have some *common-ground* from which we can communicate, share, help each other, etc. My suggestion to you all is that we extend the Pantechnicon concept to cover all of the relevant xCards and, thereby, build a community-based collection of reusable 'components' and solutions that we can all share in order to increase our productivity and quality of our xCard-wares ... We could even launch a new open-source-movement, of a sort, where the 'source' is *our* kind of stuff : stacks, xTalk scripts, etc. I think it would really carch-on because xTalk is far more accessible to people who are not graduate students in computer science than C, C++, Java ... all those more traditional approaches to crafting software solutions. Let's turn-on the World to the empowerment of xCard computing! :-)) Alain __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: hypercard domenu comptability
Hello Eric Engle, Something about metacard that really bothers me... domenu... domenu in hypercard is really important and convenient. Indeed. I have longed for doMenu in MC, many times, for many years. I had a in-depth debate about it with Scott Raney, back when MC was still owned and hosted by Scott. He concluded with the argument that Richard reiterated in a very-recent post to this list, e.g. MC's speed is dramatically improved without doMenu'. problem is: the menus in metacard don't match. solution would be:... could have all the menu items that HC has: cut picture instead of... There is nothing preventing you from editing MC's menu bar. It is precisely what I did when I crafted FreeGUI which, btw, has ALL of the menus and menuItems as they are in HyperCard. Therefore you might want to download FreeGUI, as a good starting point for your alternative menu bar. This is an avoidable and easily solved problem. the invisible button would not solve syntax like doMenu item 3 of menu 2 (or similar) but I never used that syntax ... Some of do use that syntax, and it was awesome in terms of learning to script HyperCard gra-du-ally, by coding exactly what the user normally does manually. One very simple command goes a l-o-o-o-n-g way. It accomplishes many many things, from navigation to authoring. :-) What do people think? I have no comment to make on your invisible menu idea but it seems to me that you could achieve your goal by scripting a doMenu handler, in MetaCard, which maps the doMenu requested with its corresponding equivalent in MC code. Example: doMenu New stack... without dialog gets handled by : on doMenu menuItem -- -- setup a CASE statement, -- one case for each menuItem possibility -- -- case where menuItem is the above create new stack break -- -- other cases where menuItem is other -- end doMenu Good hunting, Alain __ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Pre-release WinNO2 beta testers needed
Hello MisterX, Im coming out with a new version of the WinNO2 plugin - the ultimate Rev-Window/Stack manager. New skin, new menus, revised features... http://monsieurx.com/hyper/xos/screenshots/WinNO2.png Wow! Very very pretty, professionnal-looking, etc. :-)_) You've got real ergonomic/artistic flair, Mr. X. :-) If I had some money, I'd hire you in a FFlash! ;-) With admiration, Alain Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: last marked cd
Hello FlexibleLearning, Is there any simple way to detect the last (or first) marked cd ? function firstMarkedCard get the id of first marked card return it is the id of this card end firstMarkedCard function lastMarkedCard get the id of last marked card return it is the id of this card end lastMarkedCard Hope this has not already been suggested, and I hope it helps :-) Alain __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: server side playground
Hello Simon and y'all I'd like to poke at running metacard as a service loading and testing .mc files etc. Just to see what can be done reading, writing and displaying.. Where is the best place to find examples to start with? Did anyone respond to this ? Alain Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: Buggy debugger -- solved?
Hello MisterX, I just spent a big part of the day working on the mc variable watcher and finishing some workflow issues with my old mc script editor... is there anyone still using Metacard? A 'better' question would be : is anyone still developing components for MetaCard? ;-) As for me, FreeGUI is definitely interested in the above. By definition, you could say, given that FreeGUI is/was a MetaCard-based GUI. Cheers! Alain __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Popup menus
Hello y'all. I cannot even imagine what new features I'm missing out on with my older version of MC. I look forward to upgrading this year to Rev. :-) You can't miss something you never had! IOW, I'm doing fine with MetaCard 2.5 .. I don't really feel the need to 'upgrade' to Rev. Apparently.. Rev has improved the web stuff,,. this is kind-of tempting. They now have a lib for doing XML-RPC = pretty cool!, but is it enough to justify the cost (likely); or, more grievosuly, the change in licencing terms? More on this after the next two quotes. Jacque: However, the licensing requirements in 2.7 have changed and it is no longer legal to build a custom player. Kevin (paraphrased): It *never* was legal to build a custom player. MetaCard Inc's licencing is/was FAR more liberal than Rev's is [or ever will be!?]. From the very beginning, Runtime Inc prohibited creating an authoring tool that might compete with Rev! .. even though that's what Rev is well-suited for!.. it would never holdup in court, I'm pretty sure of that. Then they made matters worse: with further changes (restrictions) to their licence, plus a *one-shot* demo that times-out with no renewal possible. And now a prohibition on custom standalones. Why so restrictive ??? By the way Scott and Kevin, thank you both for producing such a great product. I hope you sell lots of licenses so that you continue to upgrade and maintain it :-) I agree with Shari that the MetaCard-engine is a fine product that should be perpetuated and, thankfully, it has been taken-up, maintained and improved by Runtime. I understand their need to make money from the sale of licences; albeit this is *increasingly difficult* for ANY proprietary software these days! I am, or perhaps was, considering upgrading to Rev (at last!) but I'm thrown-off by their [draconnian] licencing terms; in particular their [new] restriction against creating custom standalones .. ouch! Say it ain't so .. Joe, please .. say it ain't so .. here's hoping that this restriction only applies to the lesser licences, e.g. that the Enterprise licence, for example, allows for the crafting of custom players. What say you, Kevin? Please clarify your licencing terms, as well as their SCOPE, so that we can make an informed decision as to whether it's advisable for us to upgrade to Rev [2.7] or not. No flame intended, Alain P.S.: For what it is worth, and I realize that it might sound like folly to you, I suggest that you lessen your licencing grip, allow building custom standalones for ALL licences, allow the Rev-based authoring of tools that might 'compete' with Rev (it is much more likely that they will *complement* it). P.P.S.: Does the FreeGUI project still have a PASS (green light) with regard to your licencing clause that normally prohibits the Rev-based authoring of tools that might 'compete' with Rev ? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Rev licensing
Hello Shari, Kevin and y'all I know folks have been discussing something about players, but it sounded more like an issue for those who wanted to create a competing program to Rev. From a business point of view: sounded like is not sufficient. As an entrepreneur, I must know *exactly* what the terms of the licence are BEFORE considering whether it is wise to switch-over or not. Moreover, I would like to be reasonably-sure that the terms won't change [much] in the next versions/upgrades so that I am NOT subsequently forced into licencing terms that I cannot subscribe to. In other words, I did not connect this to what I create, which are programs that have a standalone, and usually several separate stacks that go with it. Is there something that would affect my standalones in some way? This is precisely the question that I'm asking. Which licence(s), if any, allow us to create standalones? Are we allowed to bundle one|more stack(s) with it? (which of course remain editable). Can we continue to bundle a player of our stacks in the form of a custom splash screen? Keeping the whole set of stacks in an editable form is definitely the best practice here. A separate application to download and install, which is bloated because it has EVERYTHING in it, and splashes a Runtime advertisement on startup, is NOT a desirable alternative to a custom solution with a custom splash screen. Naturally, we are trying to 'hide' the xCard origins of our custom solutions when releasing wares. Solutions crafted with C++, for example, don't advert the tools that they were edited and compiled with! It is not appropriate for us either. More grievous still would be to obligate our customer to download, install run a separate app to use our stack-based solutions; an application which Runtime self-avowedly admits that it wasn't up to expectations AND, irregarless of this, it is a proprietary app that we have *no* control over (the *licencing* as well as the code, I might add). Sorry for giving you such a hard time about this, Kevin, but I am evidently not the only one who is concerned about the licencing terms for Rev [2.7+]. Please inform us unambiguously as to the terms of your licences so that we may make an informed decision about porting to Rev [2.7+] or not. Prospective Runtime customers need to know what's-what and what to expect in the future. Apparently, some of your existing customers are un-clear about this, too; but I cannot speak 'for' them because I am NOT one of them yet. But I *could* be, if ... ;-) Alain __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Rev licensing
Hello Ken Ray, Alain, are you a member of the Improve List? No. If so, please read the results of a conversation I had with Kevin related to standalones and players (title: Tempest in a Teapot: A Resolution). Can you give me/us an executive summary? :-) Regards, Alain __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Rev licensing
Hello Richard, Today All RunRev requires is (last I heard anyway): This product was made with Revolution Portions Copyright 2006 Runtime Revolution Ltd. I don't object to including of a copyright notice in *MY* splash-screen, and definitely in the About and other docs, but the issue is whether we have to use Rev's splash instead of our own CUSTOM splash screen. I see nothing natural about choosing a tool and then being ashamed of your own choice. MetaCard and Rev are a hard sale. Out of the box they look and feel a bit clunky. If one goes to all of the trouble of creating a whole new look-and-feel, doesn't he earn himself the right to splash his solution as he wishes? Because Runtime Inc needs a boost in sales, we *have to* use their generic english splash? instead of our own custom localized one?? If you don't like using a particular tool, you may find another more to your liking. What *I* like, versus what my customers *expect*, are TWO different matters. Sometimes I manage to persuade them to let me use what *I* like, but it is difficult (increasingly so, over time) to persuade them to use a proprietary xCard. I try VERY hard but in the end the customer is always right! ;-( A vendor has a legitimate right to request a simple copyright notice in exchange for accomplishing the other 90% of your application. This isn't what is objectionable [toi me]. I'm okay with including a copyright notice in the About, and other docs too; perhaps even in *my* splash screens, albeit in very small print. The issue is whether we can create our own custom standalone 'players', with our own custom splash screen, for the editable stacks that we craft for our customers. You're always welcome to crack open GCC and write that other 90% yourself. I have considered this more than once. ;-) Sorry for giving you such a hard time about this, Kevin, metacard@lists.runrev.com is not Kevin's address. Kevin's address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks for the info. I was assuming that Kevin was on THIS list, as well as any other [mail] list that deals with HIS product. Sincerely, Alain __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: FW: A Tempest in a Teapot - The Resolution
Thank you, Ken Ray. :-) The following is the post that I sent to the Improve Rev list, which goes into detail about the player/standalone issues that were originally raised on this list. This should hopefully clear everything up... Clear, exhaustive, and what I need to be reassured about. :-) Beyond this thank you, I will not raise this issue again at least until 2.7 is finalized (as you requested). Regards, Alain __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Displaying Stacks in Browsers
Hello Ray and Richard, Ray Horsley asked : It may sound a bit dreamy, but does anybody know of a way to display a stack in a browser for normal interactive use with the cgi ... ? CGI is an interface for processing data from a client to an HTTP server. IOW, CGI is a server-side protocole for passing-on the processing of a web-client's request. More often than not, the request is to store the data being submitted to the server via a client web-form. it sounds like the question here is about the client-side presentation. I concur. ;-) Web pages are commonly done in HTML... Increasingly xHTML, e.g. close-to plain ole HTML but more rigorously coded, and wrapped in XML. Plain HTML, for example, allows you to have un-terminated tags; in xHTML, *all* tags have to have their corresponding end tags (ex: td./td). It's a bit more effort, but the result is something far more compliant. :-) sometimes augmented with interactivity via JavaScript Indeed. :) Albeit almost anything requires a little bit of it. Example: plain ole roll-overs, eg image changes when you pass-over it with the mouse. Forms often require a bit of JavaScript too. And so on... (what the young 'uns call AJAX). This may be evident but : AJAX is JavaScript *based*, but JavaScript and AJAX are not the same thing. AJAX uses JavaScript to post short, special requests to a server, which the server reacts to by sending a short snippet of code (instead of the traditional web page) in order to allow the client-side browser to readjust the layout of the page without switching or reloading the page. iow things change inside your *dynamic* web page without the overhead of reloading the [new] page. You can therefore have collapsible areas.. and so on, just like *real* softwares feature. :-)) Browser plugins can provide support for other elements beyond text and graphics, such as the Flash plugin. Flash is interesting, but it doesn't understand stacks nor can it even read them. To put it bluntly: Flash is not an xCard. It's a MacroMediaInc product, and so was Director which, in turn, had a scripting language that was inspired by HyperTalk, in its early-days, but that is about as close as Flash gets to being an xCard. :( The challenge with plugins is that, like an application, if they're not already bundled with the browser they need to be identified, located, downloaded, and installed before the media can be viewed. Even when they are already bundled with the browser, plugins eventually need to be updated ; more often sooner, than later. And frequently (in some cases). And one does not always have the liberty to install and run new apps|plugins; at work and at school for instance. IOW, I concur that we must avoid plug-ins whenever possible. :-| There isn't currently a browser plugin for viewing Rev stacks... Btw, there is such a plugin for SuperCard.. I forget the name now.. but I know for sure that there is|was one. Check it out if SuperCard interest you, Ray. :) ... through there are three great options which satisfy most real-world requests for this sort of thing: Perhaps MORE than THREE! ;-) 1. JavaScript/DHTML/AJAX: Check out Google Maps. A lot can be done with plain text and graphics, without the need for supporting a proprietary binary file like Rev. I'm getting a little ahead of myself here, but I'd like to point out to you both|all that the interface of XulCard(*) is likely to be crafted with JavaScript, DHTML and (AJAX or XUL). XUL has been around longer, but I must admit that AJAX seems to have most of the momentum these days. I'm going to let this 'struggle' play-itself-out while I focus on the server-side half of XulCard. (*) Here is the background now : XulCard will be a 100% Web-2.0-savvy xCard. It will be quite different from any existing xCard, including HyperCard and Rev. Most of its properties are CSS-properties. XulCard's dates, times, numbers, and so on.. will be based on existing W3C|web standards. The server-side XulCard engine is also web-standards-compliant. It's coded in RDF (XML, with a semantic twist). Exporting stacks to this RDF is what I'm *completing* right now. :) Next step is the RDF-parser which I may implement with Ken Ray's STS XML-lib ... then it will be XUL or AJAX for the web based GUI. Not *easy*, to be sure, but it is well on its way! :-)) 2. Custom browser : Check out Google Earth. It provides MUCH better interface than Google Maps, taking full advantage of all the things that a dedicated application can do. Building net-savvy apps in Rev is a snap. The first clients of XulCard will be XML-RPC-savvy client-apps (any) and why not MC/Rev in particular! Remotely controlling one xCard with another isn't my goal, but this XUL and/or AJAX stuff might take some time (to ascertain the winner, to iron-out the kinks, and so on). So, meanwhile, one will be able to use XC without waiting for its native-GUI to be completed. :) 3. Consider Flash: It's already
Re: Displaying Stacks in Browsers
Dave Cragg wrote: Just a few comments on the Flash Player. Adobe/Macromedia have a product named Flex which can produce swf files for playback by the Flash player. This is quite a different development environment from Flash. For ex, there's no timeline. Thanks for your input, Dave. :-) I will look into Flex, as a potential alternative to XUL and AJAX. As a matter of fact, Im a bit surprised at myself for so casually disregarding one of the all time MAJOR players in the web-deployment of multimedia game.. humm.. pitch-battle, or struggle, are more like it. ;-) Cheers Dave Likewise, :-) Alain __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: room for an open source alternative
Hello Richard and y'all, ... so it would seem there would be room for an open source alternative -- maybe. Hear! Hear! ;-)) We are on the same wavelength in this regard. :) As you all know, I'm making steady progress towards this goal, e.g. an open-source multi-platform xCard that takes advantage of all the relevant Web [2.0] standards, and so on. Yup! I speak of XulCard. :-) Its 'File Format' is completed. Exporting from HC to XulCard is hours away from completion. Running this exporter on all of the stacks of the HC-Pantechnicon will provide me|us with LOTS of 'data' (*stacks* and etc). This data can be used immediately via existing RDF [client] programs and APIs. Ex: myPiggyBank The next BIG step towards my goal of an open-source web-centric xCard will be to create the server-side engine of XulCard; basically an RDF-parser that can read/write/etc the RDF-data of XulCard's file-format and, of course, the interactions between the server and its clients (HTTP, XML-RPC, AJAX, etc.). ... for an open source alternative ... In my view, XulCard won't be an alternative to Rev because Rev is desktop-based while OTOH XulCard will be entirely web-centric. I surrender the Desktop to Rev! Let's be *complimentary* :-)) Next update : weeks|months from now. I don't want to inundate this Rev-centric list with 'off-topic' self promoting marketing schlick! ;-) Over and out, :) Alain F. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Happy Time of Year
Dear Hugh, Dear friends, A curious beginning for what follows! ;-) Just to clarify my earlier response to 'Solstice Salutations', please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practised within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practise religious or secular traditions at all... and a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2007, and without regard to the race, creed, colour, age, physical ability, religious faith, or sexual orientation of the wishee. This is about as politically-correct as one could ever hope to be. Do you mind if I use it in my own season's greetings? Do you require users to give credit to the author (you)? Are you using Creative Commons licence? ;-) This wish is limited to the customary and usual good tidings for a period of one year, or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first. Holiday is not intended to, nor shall it be considered, limited to the usual Judeo-Christian celebrations or observances, or to such activities of any organised or ad hoc religious community, group, individual or belief (or lack thereof). It is the FIRST time that I have ever seen a greeting that is so rock-solidly protected against any lawsuit whatsoever! ;-)) Best wishes Hugh And to you, Hugh. I've got a huge grin on my face, and I chuckled as I read your post. Thanks for the laughs! Al __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Calendar widget crafted with MetaCard
Thank you Scott, Thank you Jacque. :-) I was SURE such a thing existed! :-) Btw, are there any *other* locations where MetaCard developers are sharing their work ? Has there been any/many efforts to share MC/RR work ? A kind of ... euh ... Pantechnicon.. so to speak! Would it be worthwhile to do so ? Thanks again for the prompt help. It's so much FASTER than doing it myself, as you can no-doubt imagine. :-) Alain Have any of you ever crafted a CALENDAR widget ? You could try here: http://www.troz.net/Rev/libraries.php 3rd link down. ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Problems with delete folder someFolder
Hello y'all, I'm trying to script MetaCard 2.5 so that it can DELETE a FOLDER. But it just doesn't work, no matter what I try. Given my experience with the command-line in DOS and in UNIX, I know that one cannot delete a folder that has something *in* it. So I tried emptying the files in my to-be-deleted folder. This works fine, for the visible files but one-or-more of the *invisible* files are hard to get-rid-of, namely icon%OD or just icon ... it varies! I think I have managed to empty all of the files from my to-be-deleted folder but it also contains an invisible folder, e.g. ... From my CLI experience I know that this is what one types in order to go UP one-level in the hierarchy of the filesystem, e.g. next-folder-up. But I can't seem to DELETE it ! It's like I'm not-allowed to do it. Do I need to set the access-priviledges to 777 or something? I test-for the existence of this .. folder, BEFORE+AFTER trying to delete it, and confirms the existence of this folder in BOTH cases ; IOW, the folder was NOT deleted!!! I even tried setting the directory one-level-up so that the system is in a location that will still exist once I delete the folder the system used to be in .. again from my CLI experience. So what gives ?? Can we delete folders or not ?? Please HELP me if you can, I'm feeling down_own_own. And I would appreciate you being around_own_own ... won't you PLEASE, please, PLEASE help me, help me HELP-me ou hou ! ;-) on deleteFolder folderPath -- insert your handler here! :-) end deleteFolder Alain ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Help - Cannot delete a folder
Thanks for your advice, Brian. :) If you are really stuck in Transcript land, you could try using shell() to call through to the command-line where things behave like you are accustomed to? If you use rm on the command line (UNIX / Linux / MacOS X), there are options to recurse and force delete everything ... But.. unfortunately.. I'm NOT using a UNIX-based OS. In this case, I'm using a Mac Classic 9.x for my MetaCard work. As you probably know old Mac's don't provide SHELL-access! OTOH, since MetaCard 2.5 runs on OLD macs, as well as new ones, and provides the delete folder fPath syntax, I should still be able to do this, without upgrading to a UNIX-based machine (Mac or otherwise). Anyone-else want to chip-in some additional information ? :) Thanks nonetheless, Brian. :-) Alain ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Help - Cannot delete a folder
Thanks Jacque, You can get the detailed files and the detailed folders. This will give you full listings of everything, including hidden items. Then you'll need to run a loop to walk the directories, deleting all the files in each file list, and getting the files inside each folder in the folder list. After that, delete folder should work. Yup, very-good advice. :) And, yes, this is exactly what I did. I vaguely recall an ancient bug with delete folder that has long since been corrected, but I don't remember if 2.5 has the fix or not. Aha! This is precisely the kind of info I was looking for. You have a very good memory, Jacque. I suspected this might be the case becoz I had utterly exhausted all possibilities I could fathom, *before* asking y'all for help. I think it does. You could test by creating a single empty folder in the finder, and then seeing if MC will delete it. Excellent methodology, Jacque. You're a PRO! Alas, I tried this TOO and it failed. Therefore, I can only conclude, [at this point], that MetaCard 2.5 *has* the bug you speak-of. Drats! I will have to work-around it, I guess; unless someone (..ideally a MC 2.5 user) can suggest a *hack* around this old bug. Thank you *kindly*, however, for remembering this obscure-fact for me. :-) Alain ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Help - Cannot delete a folder
THANKS, Jacque. :-) I can't believe HOW-MUCH work you have done on this, for me. WOW! You are truly One-of-a-kind!, Jacque. The Spirit-of-HyperCard still inhabits you! ;-) It's like The Force, only BETTER! ;-) P.S.: As it does with Brian Yennie, as well. :) I'm still hoping for a HACK (e.g. a work-around), to keep things simple, but of-course this a a WISH that may, or may not be, do-able. I'm a BIG optimist, though, so I'll wait some-more for providence to smile upon me once again, as it often has in my Life. :-) Worse-comes-to-worse, I'll finally upgrade to MacOSX! ... Anything's possible! ;-) Thanks for the help [so-far] , Alain Unfortunately, I just searched the bug database and there are no reports in there about delete folder not working. That isn't to say the bug didn't exist, only that it isn't in the Rev database. I just did a test with my old copy of MC 2.5 and it worked fine. The test folder I created on the desktop deleted without incident. This was in OS X however, I didn't actually test in OS 9, as I was too busy to set up one of my old machines... right now. ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Use Valentina with MetaCard 2.5 ?
Hello y'all, Is it possible to use Valentina with MetaCard 2.5 ? Or does it necessarily *require* Runtime Revolution ? N.B.: *not* even 2.6 .. it *has* to be for 2.5 .. because version 2.5 is what I got *and* I don't want to upgrade unless it's strictly necessary. Thanks y'all, Alain ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Use Valentina with MetaCard 2.5 ?
Hi Ken andf y'all, Alain, one caveat on using Valentina is whether the *current* Valentina will work with MC 2.5; you may need to find acquire an older version for it to work. You should contact Ruslan Zasukhin at Paradigmasoft to find out for sure. Thanks for the tip. I already have, and Ruslan has already replied. He has graciously provided me with a URL so that I can download a DEMO version of whichever version suits MetaCard 2.5. Which I figure is the first one in a l-o-n-g list of versions, e.g. version 1.11 This demo version will only work about 10 minutes at a time, but one of the respondents in this thread assured me that it was in-fact longer than 10 minutes AND that it would be sufficient to evaluate whether Valentina is for me. As it has been for y'all, I surmise, because respondents in this thread have been unanimously favorable to Valentina. No one reported any regret. Not so-far, anyways. I'd like to hear from other Valentina users too, or would-be users that were discouraged.. or whomever has something relevant to say about Valentina. Good or bad are equally welcome. :) I'm being so-cautious because I have dedicated hundreds of hours, testing various databases (DBMSs), over the years, and NONE of them did the trick for me, including XCMDs for HyperCard. This time, I want to KNOW for SURE that I'll be headed in the right direction. :) Thanks y'all for the heads-up, :) Alain ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
New question about using Valentina
Hello y'all, Can Valentina XCMD (aka VXCMD) operate with [any] standard mySQL server ? Or will it only work with Valentina's servers (aka VSERVER) ? Thanks, :) Alain ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: IDE Interoperability
Hello Björnke von Gierke, David, and y'all, From: Björnke von Gierke b...@mac.com Subject: Re: IDE Interoperability See above for context. The main issue is about how to decide what is a component and what isn't. The OPERATIVE word here is DECIDE. There is no BEST-answer to this. It depends on what we want to do, how we want to do it, who we are doing it for, etc. Should a script editor be one component, or a dozen? The gist of components versus monolithic systems (aka All-in-One) is that componennts can be substituted for other ones, without adversely affecting the operation of the system, as-long-as the component BEHAVES as it should. Moreover the separation of concerns makes developing and maintaining the system (system's components) easier. The downside of modularization is, of course, the increased complexity and overhead of handling multiple entities versus just one. You don't want to have too-many, nor too-little. Btw, OOP design/programming deals with this issue incessantly. For example a script editor contains stuff for debugging, auto-completion (sometimes), colorisation, undo handling, etc. My take-on-this is the following. Any substantive feature that people may want to program differently should be component-ized so that these people can replace the feature with their own version of it as-long-as it conforms the component's interface (protocols, API, etc). Debugging is a prime candidate for being component-ized. Colorization is a FAIR candidate for being component-ized, given the wide variety of prefs in terms of WHAT should be colorized, which colors should be used (some people are blind to some colors), etc. The same goes for auto-completion because coding-standards vary from person-to-person. Yet let's face it: most people will USE the defaults. As for UNDO it's too-fundamental to be componentized ... and, moreover, way-too-technical; and, more-to-the-point, NOT something that people will need to customize. It's probably best to just start somewhere... Quite right. I'm looking forward to see what you guys come up with. :-) Alain ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: IDE Interoperability
Hi Björnke and y'all, I'm only a lurker on the revInterop list. I listen and react-to some of the things you're discussing to make Rev interoperable, in-order-to brainstorm, design, and craft my own xCard-inspired application; authoring system to be more precise. My xCard will be a Web-app just as TileStack is endeavouring to be, but my approach is VERY-different. I've been working at it for close-to a decade, yet it still remains VERY-original. It's NOT that I have been slacking-off; it's just that reality had to catch-up to what I have been envisioning for over TWO decades. And NOW, with the advent of Web 3.0, it finally HAS! :)) Or finally *will* if you disagree that Web 3.0 is upon us. Catch the Wave as it swells, NOT as it breaks upon the beach and everyone knows about it. The gist of my plan is for my xCard-inspired authoring system to become Web 3.0's [first] Killer-App.. the one that empowers the rest of us to author and manage Web-3x applications: from Rolodexes to autonomous agents endowed with artificial intelligence. :-) It's a Brave New World, y'all. Let's lead the way with something as FUN and simple-to-use as HyperCard was.. euh still *is*, I suppose. I don't want to be a heretic ;-) Btw i will be calling my ware Lazarus. Guess why, eh! ;) Fading-back into the obscurity, ;) Alain On 27 Apr 2009, at 21:27, Alain wrote: Quite right. I'm looking forward to see what you guys come up with. :-) What? Us? No way, you do it :P Bjoernke ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Metacard 4
Hi Richmond Mathewson and y'all, I had Metacard 4 up and running with a dataGrid yesterday night. So.. how was it? Did it work? Is it HOT? On a similar note, what do y'all think of the REVLET feature ? Has anyone used it? Did it work? Is it HOT? Specifically: Which UserLevel does a Revlet allow ? 1) Browse : e.g. navigate, click on buttons, activate menus ...) 2) Edit : is it possible to edit and format the content of fields ? 3) Draw : is is possible to draw lines shapes while online ? 4) Author : is it possible to create, edit move parts while online ? 5) Script : is it possible to script parts so-on while online ? Gradually succumbing to the allure of Rev, ;-) Alain __ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
(no subject)
Hello. :) I have been using MetaCard 2.5 for over a decade now, and, with some free time on my hands, I was wondering what RunRev was up to these days. I must say.. I am impressed! Particularly with all of the new [web] features: * save stack as revlet and deploy-to-web ; * free downloadable plugin for revlets ; * free 'player' of stacks (eg RevMedia) ; * part to display/manage genuine tables ; * interact with mySQL databases ; * rev based web hosting ... Way to go! :-) But how come I haven't heard much/any news about these new [web] features? From all of you mc/rev users, I mean. Do these features really deliver [as promised]? Are Revlets better (perform better) than java-Applets? Or Flash for that matter? Can a revlet write to the user's disk?? Do the revlets do everything a stack can? Are the revlets limited in some way? Do they require a server-side process[es] - CGI, AJAX, or otherwise - to do certain things? If so: basic things? or just extraordinary things? Any comments on this, or any of the other aforementionned features, would be GREATLY appreciated. :-) Alain P.S.: Is this the correct list for this inquiry? ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: Rev state of play (was: no subject)
Thanks for the insider-info, FlexibleLearning. Regards, Alain. :) Jacque has pointed you in the right direction, but I'd like to add a word on the revWeb plugin for 'revlet' apps... It has achieved proof of concept stage, but we are all waiting for the final release of 4.5 for a commercially solid technology. I have at least one client champing at the bit for it. The main issue for us has been the inability to ensure that the most recent version of the plugin is installed, and un-installing currently requires manual intervention. This is the show-stopper. Window layering, mouse and cursor issues, trivial things like that, also have to be addressed. BUT, once done this is going to be (almost) as revolutionary as RevMobile, and certainly for dyed-in -the-wool-dont-want-or-need-an-android-iphone-gimme-a-break types like me. :) /H ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Revlets
Thank you for your informative reply, Jacque. Btw, no matter which list is concerned, HC, MC, andRev too I presume, I've noticed that you always take care to respond.. and promptly to-boot! Thank-you for being who you are! :) Alain It's all happening over on the Rev list. This one is mostly just to discuss the MC IDE. I think you'll find everything you want to know if you search the list archives: You can join the Rev list here: http://www.runrev.com/developers/community/ Info about revserver and revWeb are in the lessons near the top of this page: http://lessons.runrev.com. Basically there are two new web technologies: one is client-side (revWeb plugin) and the other is server-side (RevServer.) They are also working on RevMobile to allow deployment to Android phones. ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
RE: Re: setting itemdel
Best solution for this would be a GREP pattern. :) Example: .*([0-9]+).* PS: use metacard's replaceText syntax. Al replace (Size: 100ml; ) with 100 in fld Product But you have different 'size' values. This removes the non-numeric characters... set the itemDel to TAB repeat with n=1 to num of lines of fld Product replace (Size: with in item 2 of line n of fld Product replace ml;) with in item 2 of line n of fld Product replace g;) with in item 2 of line n of fld Product end repeat Hugh Senior FLCo Ok, a continuation. On lines like the following I'd like to be able to catch and delete the '(Size: 100ml;)' but keep the '100'. How would I go about doing this? 1 Benzoin (Mobile) Siam (Size: 100ml; ) EO16-100 7.55 Eva On 2011-05-07 16:06, Mark Schonewille wrote: Hi Eva, I'm not sure what you are having problems with, but if you want to get the items of a line, you need to set the itemdel to tab. set the itemDel to tab put item 2 of line 3 of myData into fld Product -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 New: Download the Installer Maker Plugin 1.6 for LiveCode here http://qery.us/ce On 7 mei 2011, at 16:02, Eva Isotalo wrote: MC 2.4.3 How do I catch the different parts of a file that has columns like this?: 1 Rose Floral Wax: (Size: 25g; ) FW07-25 ?3.65 ?3.65 1 Jasmine Grandaflorum Floral Wax (Size: 25g; ) FW03-25 ?2.95 ?2.95 1 Mimosa Floral Wax (Size: 25g; ) FW05-25 ?2.95 ?2.95 I have no problems reading it but I'm trying to make an app that will read invoices in to a inventory program where each product will get it's own card. Eva ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/attachments/20110507/e7a7acc5/at tachment-0001.html -- ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard End of metacard Digest, Vol 83, Issue 2 *** - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1325 / Virus Database: 1500/3622 - Release Date: 05/07/11 ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Re: setting itemdel
function extractNumberFromString pString put .*([0-9]+).* into myRegex local x,y if matchChunk(pString, myRegex, x, y) then return char x to y of pString else return pString -- unmodified string to leave field as-is. end extractNumberFromString on example -- field contains: (Size: 100ml; ) -- it should contain just the value: 100 put extractNumberFromString(fld Product) into fld Product -- e.g. replaces (Size: 100ml; ) with 100 -- if it fails then it leaves string intact. end example From: FlexibleLearning ad...@flexiblelearning.com To: metacard@lists.runrev.com Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2011 1:14:19 PM Subject: RE: Re: setting itemdel A regex would certainly be better. As it requires a degree of coding proficiency that was not evident when the question was initially raised, I provided a solution to suit. Would you like to give us your matchtext solution rather than a copied generic? Hugh Senior FLCo Alain Farmer wrote: Best solution for this would be a GREP pattern. :) Example: .*([0-9]+).* PS: use metacard's replaceText syntax. Al replace (Size: 100ml; ) with 100 in fld Product But you have different 'size' values. This removes the non-numeric characters... ? set the itemDel to TAB ? repeat with n=1 to num of lines of fld Product ? ? replace (Size: with in item 2 of line n of fld Product ? ? replace ml;) with in item 2 of line n of fld Product ? ? replace g;) with in item 2 of line n of fld Product ? end repeat Hugh Senior FLCo ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
I'm back!
Hello, It's Alain, the HyperCard Pantechnicon host.. I have been using HyperCard since 1986, MetaCard 2.5 since 1996, but I never made the leap to RunRev, specifically LiveCode these days. Now I am seriously considering it, so I have some questions for y'all: * With MetaCard 2.5, above a [few] thousand cards, performance slowed down dramatically. Is Rev faster than this? Can Rev handle tens-of-thousands of cards? Would it require Valentina? Does Rev support mySQL databases ? * MetaCard started in the UNIX world, was then ported to windows, then ported to Mac. Does Rev run on Linux? Does Rev run on Debian ? * Rev's web plugin is available for which browsers ? FireFox ?IceWeasel? Chrome ? * Is there a Rev licence that allows standalones ? If so, how much does it cost ? * Best way(s) to learn LiveCode ? Thanks y'all, and I hope that I will be joining you soon, :) Alain ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
