Re: [MD] Best Wishes to All of My Old Friends

e right now.my awareness is completely different now. > I can see with my own eyes what you and Krimel wanted to tell > > Adrie > > Op di 5 mei 2020 om 03:15 schreef Dan Glover : > > > Hello Adrie, > > > > The Confederacy lost the war but the idea beneat

Re: [MD] Best Wishes to All of My Old Friends

e After Life. > Krimel > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Moq_Discuss On Behalf Of Dan > Glover > Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 9:14 PM > To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org > Subject: Re: [MD] Best Wishes to All of My Old Friends > > Hello Adrie, > > The Co

Re: [MD] Best Wishes to All of My Old Friends

> into the Caribbean, can't you? You thinking along those lines. I could > > maybe > > meet you around Lake Kissimmee in the After Life. > > Krimel > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Moq_Discuss On Behalf Of > D

Re: [MD] Best Wishes to All of My Old Friends

today again,so i was out with my Bosnian friends onto > the forest to fish all day and had a great catch, it really > made my day. > > Toughts , Dan? > > > > > > > Op do 30 apr. 2020 om 06:06 schreef Dan Glover : > > > Hi Krimel, > > > > Awesom

Re: [MD] Moq_Discuss Digest, Vol 147, Issue 6

the > > buildings where Pirsig taught. They also have a small computer museum in > > Bozeman with and Apple I, signed by Steve Wozniak and one of only two > > signature in the world of Ada Lovelace! > > You might noted that my previous distain for tourism has morphed into >

Re: [MD] Best Wishes to All of My Old Friends

cle at Delphi... > It really is a joy hearing from all of you. With any luck more will chime > in > and who know what might happen. > Krimel > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Moq_Discuss On Behalf Of Dan > Glover > Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 6:59 PM

Re: [MD] Best Wishes to All of My Old Friends

, > who used to write here alot.. But I am not Marsha :-) > > Best, > > Margaret Warren > > > > On 4/26/2020 3:50 PM, Dan Glover wrote: > > Hi Adrie! > > > > Yes, long time. Cormorants we have in abundance too. You can always spot > > them perched omi

Re: [MD] Best Wishes to All of My Old Friends

igrants from Europe?...they > were brought to New York at first. > They even have migratory behavier there.. > > Adrie > > > Op zo 26 apr. 2020 om 21:51 schreef Dan Glover : > > > Hi Adrie! > > > > Yes, long time. Cormorants we have in abundance too. You can alwa

Re: [MD] Best Wishes to All of My Old Friends

ew days ago the first otter was spotted in Zelzate in 50 years or so,..in > the yacht harbour. > > Adrie > > Op za 25 apr. 2020 om 21:42 schreef Dan Glover : > > > Hello old friends, > > > > A couple years ago I sold everything, gave away what I couldn't sell,

Re: [MD] Best Wishes to All of My Old Friends

Hello old friends, A couple years ago I sold everything, gave away what I couldn't sell, and moved from Chicago to Florida. I bought a shack perched precariously close to a canal in the swamps just outside Satsuma where I spend my days sitting in the sunshine reading and taking photos of gators,

Re: [MD] Cloud Atlas

Ha! That's awesome Adrie! On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Adrie Kintziger <parser...@gmail.com> wrote: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC4K4EtJvS0 > > 2 clips. > > 2017-08-01 6:26 GMT+02:00 Dan Glover <daneglo...@gmail.com>: > >> So I'm reading

[MD] Mr. Pirsig

Hello everyone, Marsha asked that I share this with you: Hi Dan, Mr. Pirsig so profoundly changed my life, I have not the words. But please post this youtube song for me on MD-Discuss as my tribute to Mr. Pirsig.

Re: [MD] John Carl: Ignoramous or fraud?

Adrie, all, I always had the impression that Robert Pirsig is a beachcomber extraordinaire. I think Phaedrus was portrayed as a poor student. He read voraciously but also skimmed a great deal searching for relevant information and discarding that which didn't fit. I would also posit that what

Re: [MD] Annotations to LC

David, all, Wow. This is good stuff. Thank you for taking your time to answer these questions. Tuk, I will attempt to get to your email as soon as possible but I don't see that I can do better than Dave. Pretty much spot on. Study it well. You can learn something here. Hell. I can learn something

Re: [MD] "RMP: Ignoramous or fraud?

Hi Adrie, all, On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Adrie Kintziger wrote: > Dan used a word not so long ago, that nested itself in my mind. > I liked the word, the term.I knew it would come in very handy later on. > The word was beachcombing.Nobody went along with the story he

Re: [MD] Why does Pirsig write everybody's right about mind and matter although his theses imply the opposite?

much. > Still, I'm not going to waste any of my own time on it - especially when > nothing new or useful, with regard to Pirsig's MoQ, is likely to come of it. > I also don't like being manipulated by others to further their childish > agendas! > > Cheers > > Horse > > > > On

Re: [MD] Why does Pirsig write everybody's right about mind and matter although his theses imply the opposite?

Tuk, all, On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 8:25 PM, wrote: > Ron, all, > You can see not everyone likes me. Dan: Just so you understand, I do not dislike you. I enjoy our discussions, to a point. I do get frustrated, however, when you seem to ignore what I am saying after I

Re: [MD] Why does Pirsig write everybody's right about mind and matter although his theses imply the opposite?

Horse, all, Thank you. Yes, I have gone quiet for just that reason. As Dave says, this is a lot of work, at least for me, and when someone digs into a position like Tuk has done here, not only does frustration result but also the sense that I am beating my head against a wall. Meaningful

Re: [MD] Why does Pirsig write everybody's right about mind and matter although his theses imply the opposite?

Tuk, all, On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Tuukka Virtaperko <m...@tuukkavirtaperko.net> wrote: > Dan, > > > > On 23-Oct-16 22:52, Dan Glover wrote: >> >> Tuk, all, >> >> On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 8:11 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko >>

Re: [MD] Why does Pirsig write everybody's right about mind and matter although his theses imply the opposite?

Tuk, all, On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 8:11 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko <m...@tuukkavirtaperko.net> wrote: > Dan, all, > > > > On 23-Oct-16 2:10, Dan Glover wrote: >> >> Tuk, all, >> >> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 10:34 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko >> <m...@tuukkav

Re: [MD] Why does Pirsig write everybody's right about mind and matter although his theses imply the opposite?

Tuk, all, On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 10:34 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote: > Dan, all, > > I wish to provide maximum clarity for my argument. The argument is about the > logical consistency and logical implications of LC RMP annotation 67. The > annotation includes the

Re: [MD] Why does Pirsig write everybody's right about mind and matter although his theses imply the opposite?

Tuk, all, On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 10:02 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko <m...@tuukkavirtaperko.net> wrote: > Dan, > > > On 21-Oct-16 6:24, Dan Glover wrote: >> >> Tuk, all, >> >> On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 6:40 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko >> <m...@tuukkavirtaperko.

Re: [MD] Why does Pirsig write everybody's right about mind and matter although his theses imply the opposite?

dmb, tuk, all, On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 3:19 PM, david wrote: > Tuk said to dmb: > > > I do see the point in making helpful simplifications about subjects being > social and intellectual and objects being inorganic and biological. But what > is the real deal about

Re: [MD] Why does Pirsig write everybody's right about mind and matter although his theses imply the opposite?

Tuk, all, On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 6:40 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote: > Dan, > > okay, looks like I should've studied Lila's Child better. However, if it's > true that "matter comes before mind" and "mind comes before matter" then the > MOQ is inconsistent. Obviously,

Re: [MD] Why does Pirsig write everybody's right about mind and matter although his theses imply the opposite?

ism, says this scientific view of reality is still an idea. If it were not an idea, then that “independent scientific material reality” would not be able to change as new scientific discoveries come in. [Dan Glover and Robert Pirsig, Lila's Child] It is important for an understanding of the

Re: [MD] Why does Pirsig write everybody's right about mind and matter although his theses imply the opposite?

Tuk, all, On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 8:40 AM, wrote: > All, > > Thanks to Dan it became apparent that the former topic of this thread, which > included the question "Why are sociality and intellectuality strictly > subjective?", was badly chosen. Sociality and

Re: [MD] To Pirsig and all: Why are sociality and intellectuality strictly subjective?

Tuk, all, On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 8:23 AM, wrote: > All, > As I've not been endowed with Pirsig's e-mail address I thought to write > this open letter I hope to pertain to all those who are present. I remember > how Pirsig complained during the Baggini interview about

Re: [MD] Thank You, Past Posts Re-up Request, and Intellectual Value Over Biological Value

> > Horse > > > On 03/08/2016 05:16, Dan Glover wrote: >> >> Nick, all, >> >> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 12:38 PM, ngriffis <ngrif...@bellsouth.net> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Nick: Thank you, Dan, for the reference to ZMM free download.

Re: [MD] MD] On Pirsig's letter to Paul Turner

Craig, On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 12:52 AM, Craig Erb wrote: > [Dan?] >> DNA is made of two molecules not one. It's an organic pattern. >> Inorganic "patterns" are the constituency of biological patterns and >> biological patterns ( humans ) are the constituency of societies,

Re: [MD] Thank You, Past Posts Re-up Request, and Intellectual Value Over Biological Value

Nick, all, On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 12:38 PM, ngriffis wrote: > > > Nick: Thank you, Dan, for the reference to ZMM free download. I found > that I could put in a key word/phrase and the pdf document would cite every > page where that word/phrase was to be found. This

Re: [MD] On Pirsig's letter to Paul Turner

Tuukka, On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 9:19 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote: > Dan, all, > > > >> is also >> biological, although not all biological patterns are social; so every >> intellectual pattern is social although not all social patterns are >>

Re: [MD] On Pirsig's letter to Paul Turner

Craig, On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 7:51 AM, Craig Erb wrote: > [Craig] >> IMHO DNA is an inorganic pattern [as is carbon], so they are inappropriate >> for distinguishing the two respective levels. > > [Dan] >> A genetic code is peculiar to the biological level whereas carbon

Re: [MD] On Pirsig's letter to Paul Turner

Tuukka, all, On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 8:12 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote: > Dan, > > > > >> >>> Anyway, the above Pirsig quote inspires me to modify the model. >>> Unfortunately my attempt to do so produced a jungle of hypotheses that >>> has >>> been too complicated to

Re: [MD] Tuukka's Guitar : More Questions

Nick, John, all, On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 9:57 AM, ngriffis wrote: > Dan: > >>If we check out Chapter 12 in Lila, we find: > > > >>"In this plain of understanding static patterns of value are divided into > four systems: inorganic patterns, biological patterns, social

Re: [MD] On Pirsig's letter to Paul Turner

Adrie, On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Adrie Kintziger wrote: > As Dan wrote;, > > "I am a writer. Not that you would know that, and not a good one, > apparently. A writer. Me. Not a writer that enough people read to > enable me to write full time. Nope. Instead, I have to

Re: [MD] On Pirsig's letter to Paul Turner

Tuukka, On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Tuk <m...@tuukkavirtaperko.net> wrote: > Dan, all, > > > > On 20-Jul-16 9:25, Dan Glover wrote: >> >> Tuukka, all, >> >> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 3:35 PM, Tuk <m...@tuukkavirtaperko.net> wrote: >>

Re: [MD] On Pirsig's letter to Paul Turner

Craig, On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 2:25 AM, Craig Erb wrote: > [dang lover] >> the presence of DNA seems a good (the only?) way to separate inorganic >> patterns from biological patterns. > > IMHO DNA is an inorganic pattern [as is carbon], so they are inappropriate > for

Re: [MD] On Pirsig's letter to Paul Turner

e. Dan: Well, I think Mr. Pirsig answered the questions put to him as best as he could rather than deferring. Check it out: "Dear Paul Turner "The question you raise about the intellectual level has troubled me too. When I answered Dan Glover in Lila's Child, I remember being a little a

Re: [MD] On Pirsig's letter to Paul Turner

Lila's Child is a compilation of the 1st year of the Lila Squad discussions. On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 6:02 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote: > Horse, all, > > >> Horse: >> I think Magnus Berg had some good ideas from the early days of the Lila >> Squad (the original Lila

Re: [MD] On Pirsig's letter to Paul Turner

Horse, On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 4:19 PM, Horse wrote: > Hi Folks > > My personal opinion is that I'd be very wary of defining the Biological > level/patterns as those containing DNA. DNA is the vehicle used to enable > self-replication or reproduction. It is, admittedly,

Re: [MD] On Pirsig's letter to Paul Turner

I agree things should be simple. And too, I have been told before that my sense of humor is a bit shall we say droll. Or maybe dry is a better word. Either way, those who are easily offended tend to get pissed off with me. Oops. There I go again. Anyway... > > > > Lainaus Dan Glover <d

Re: [MD] On Pirsig's letter to Paul Turner

; Horse > > > On 17/07/2016 00:33, Dan Glover wrote: >> >> Hey. How come I am not seeing Adrie's replies? Are they private? >> >> On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko >> <m...@tuukkavirtaperko.net> wrote: >>> >>> Adrie,

Re: [MD] On Pirsig's letter to Paul Turner

Hey. How come I am not seeing Adrie's replies? Are they private? On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote: > Adrie, Dan, all, > > If we don't want to speak of free will we could also say that the model is > about how minds cause value accumulation

Re: [MD] On Pirsig's letter to Paul Turner

Tuukka, On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 6:42 AM, wrote: > Dan, all, >> Tuukka: >> >> What wouldn't be a living thing? Would you consider the sun to be >> dead? >> Althought I don't know, I suppose you mightn't. > > Dan: > I see the sun is a

Re: [MD] On Pirsig's letter to Paul Turner

Tuukka, On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 3:50 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote: > Dan, Adrie, all, > > thanks for that one, Adrie. I'll be careful! > > My previous post was about things I've already thought through but now I'll > switch to a more tentative (and potentially more

Re: [MD] On Pirsig's letter to Paul Turner

And I meant that with 2 u's, btw. Just so you know. :-) On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 1:23 AM, Dan Glover <daneglo...@gmail.com> wrote: > Wow. What happened? Did that send? Guess I sorta lost my knack for > this. Anyhow, Once more with gusto... > > Hey Tukka! > > On Fri, Jul

Re: [MD] On Pirsig's letter to Paul Turner

Wow. What happened? Did that send? Guess I sorta lost my knack for this. Anyhow, Once more with gusto... Hey Tukka! On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 1:00 AM, Dan Glover <daneglo...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hey Tukka, > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Tuukka Virtaperko > <m...@tuukka

Re: [MD] On Pirsig's letter to Paul Turner

Hey Tukka, On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote: > All, > I'm back, and I have results to offer you. Today I participated to a cocoa > ceremony. During the ceremony we went to a pier where a woman played the > guitar and we sang. At that moment I

Re: [MD] Four levels of evolution

On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 11:12 PM, A Serna wrote: > Thanks for accepting me into the discussion.I have only recently discovered > Pirsig's books and read both with great pleasure I must say. It made me > wonder about why he didn't continue publishing. I did some search for

Re: [MD] still going?

Hi John, On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 4:27 PM, John Carl wrote: > Hello Dan, > > >> Dan: >> Yeah I can sympathize with that. Money for work. Gave up on that a >> long time ago myself. Now if only I could get the electric company to >> agree... > > > > Jc: Yeah, I hear you.

Re: [MD] still going?

Hi John, On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 1:02 PM, John Carl wrote: > Hi Dan, > >> >> Dan: >> Do you have any choice in the matter? The way I see it, the reward is >> in the work itself. > > > > Jc: This is true, and today I came to the decision that I don't have any > trouble

Re: [MD] still going?

Hi John, On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 1:05 PM, John Carl wrote: > Heya Dan, > >>> I'm with you, dave. I don't think you can compare terms in differing >>> metaphysical contexts, quite so glibly. Not without a lot of hemming and >>> hawing and opening up your baggage for

Re: [MD] still going?

Hi Adrie, On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Adrie Kintziger wrote: > Hi , Dan. > The concluding form in your summary made me think about the difference > between mass and energy from physiks.Apparently both are representatives > of the same entity..-energy. > When a few

Re: [MD] still going?

Hi Dave, On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 5:59 PM, david wrote: > Dan said: > > As per the final paragraph... how can knowledge be objective? What I > see the author doing here is taking the subject and object as literal > entities existing independently forever apart. The trip-up

Re: [MD] still going?

Hi John, On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 7:09 PM, John Carl wrote: >> >> dmb says: >> >> DiSanto thinks there "is a genuine parallel" between the yin-yang polarity >> and the subject-object polarity but I'm not so sure. > > > I'm with you, dave. I don't think you can compare

Re: [MD] still going?

Mc Watt to leaveshame really what a disgrace that was. > > do you still write?...you really should. > > Adrie > > 2016-01-21 20:03 GMT+01:00 Dan Glover <daneglo...@gmail.com>: > >> Hark! A voice in the wilderness! >> >> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 1

Re: [MD] still going?

Hark! A voice in the wilderness! On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 10:26 AM, David Blake wrote: > is the pirsig discussion site still in operation? > > dave blake > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >

Re: [MD] Julian Baggini: This is what the clash of civilisations is really about

ime to write. Believe it or not, 2016 is sneaking in through the back door as we speak. > > > On 9/27/15, Dan Glover <daneglo...@gmail.com> wrote: >> John, >> >> On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 5:31 PM, John Carl <ridgecoy...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>>

Re: [MD] Moq_Discuss Digest, Vol 119, Issue 6

me strange kind of AI that has inscrutable arrays of mystic sounding >>> words. >>> >>> -Austin >>> ᐧ >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 2:02 PM, <moq_discuss-requ...@lists.moqtalk.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 21:58:54 -0600 >>>> From: Dan Glover <daneglo...@gmail.com> >>>> To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org >>>> Subject: Re: [MD] Pirsig, Chris Alexander, and E. Yudkowsky walk >>>> into >>>>a bar... >>>> Message-ID: >>>>

Re: [MD] Pirsig, Chris Alexander, and E. Yudkowsky walk into a bar...

Hello Austin, Great to have you with us! So you've read Lila and Lila's Child... you come prepared, I see. Speaking of Nassim Taleb and his work on black swan events (not to mention his bartending skills), Lila's Child fits the bill, at least in my own personal experience. There was no way I

Re: [MD] Julian Baggini: This is what the clash of civilisations is really about

John, On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 5:31 PM, John Carl wrote: > >> Dan: >> So old angry white dudes outnumber everyone else in Texas and Montana? >> That's a pretty bold statement. Care to back it up with statistics? >> >> > Jc: No, just it's just my personal experience.And

Re: [MD] Julian Baggini: This is what the clash of civilisations is really about

John, On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 5:26 PM, John Carl <ridgecoy...@gmail.com> wrote: > Dan, > > > On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 2:26 PM, Dan Glover <daneglo...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Dan: >> I'd say Trump appeals to a certain demographic in the United States, >

Re: [MD] Julian Baggini: This is what the clash of civilisations is really about

John, On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 3:54 PM, John Carl wrote: > backlash is exactly what it is, Dan. > > Dan: > Exactly. And when you see the folks who are rushing to defend Davis > and to trumpet Trump, you can begin to understand the huge divides > between so-called red and

Re: [MD] Julian Baggini: This is what the clash of civilisations is really about

David, John, On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 6:57 AM, david wrote: > Dan said to Ridgecoyote: > > ... Donald Trump for President? I'd say Trump appeals to a certain > demographic in the United States, namely old, white, angry males. Luckily, > those fanatics are in the

Re: [MD] Julian Baggini: This is what the clash of civilisations is really about

John, On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 2:08 PM, John Carl <ridgecoy...@gmail.com> wrote: > Happy Labor Day, Dan, > > On 9/6/15, Dan Glover <daneglo...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Dan: >> Or with large swaths of the United States. Donald Trump for President? > > Jc: He

Re: [MD] Fwd: ACLA 2016: "Poetry as Practice, Practice as Poetry"

Hi Arlo, I find this fascinating as well. I tend to read lots of poetry in hopes some of it might in some small way rub off on my own writings. Lately I've fallen in love with Nikki Giovanni. Reading through the questions below I think her poetry is representational of art as a way of life as

Re: [MD] Julian Baggini: This is what the clash of civilisations is really about

fer is damned to hell for all eternity. So yeah... if you really want to start a religious discussion, start with that. > > On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 9:59 PM, Dan Glover <daneglo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > >> > Jc: I think you are right, but mainly about that unifyin

Re: [MD] Julian Baggini: This is what the clash of civilisations is really about

John, On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:42 PM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote: Heya Dan. On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 12:22 PM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote: Dan: At the same time, however, we have the advantage with the MOQ of having Robert Pirsig's novel backing up his ideas.

Re: [MD] Julian Baggini: This is what the clash of civilisations is really about

John, On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 12:22 PM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote: Good Morning, Dan. Evening, John. On 8/9/15, Dan Glover daneglo...@gmail.com wrote: Jc: Meaning is found in experience rather than abstractions from experience. The MoQ is an abstraction from experience

Re: [MD] Julian Baggini: This is what the clash of civilisations is really about

John, On Sat, Aug 1, 2015 at 10:32 PM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Dan, Jc: As RMP pointedly says: How can you tell the degenerates from the messiahs? I think that question illustrates the point that not ALL social deviation ends you up in an asylum. Sometimes you

Re: [MD] Julian Baggini: This is what the clash of civilisations is really about

John, On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 1:03 PM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Dan, Jc: there is a logic to the fact that the only way to intellectually resist social pressure is individually. If you just prefer the beliefs of one group as opposed to another, you're taking sides in a

Re: [MD] Julian Baggini: This is what the clash of civilisations is really about

John, On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 12:42 PM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote: Dan: I know there is a line in Lila about living beings reacting to Dynamic Quality, but that doesn't translate into the individual. Jc: I may be confused. It just stuck in my head somehow as orthodoxy.

Re: [MD] Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance...In 15 Minutes

Hi Horse, Thanks for taking your money and time to purchase and read the book. Like you, I was interested in whether or not it'd be of value. Like you said... shame, really. Thanks again, Dan On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Horse ho...@darkstar.uk.net wrote: Precisely! I bought the book to

[MD] Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance...In 15 Minutes

I happened to be placing an ad on Amazon for one of my books when quite by accident I came across this : Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance...In 15 Minutes - The Philosopher's Summary of Robert M. Pirsig's Best Selling Book

Re: [MD] Julian Baggini: This is what the clash of civilisations is really about

John, On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 3:53 PM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote: Dan, My two remaining girls are home for the summer. My idyllic days of sipping coffee at the computer in the morning are at an end. I grab what time I can... Dan: No worries, my friend. Always thrilled to hear

Re: [MD] Dissertation re/Pirisig and Postmodernity

I agree! Cool stuff. Thanks, Arlo! On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 1:20 PM, david dmbucha...@hotmail.com wrote: What a fantastic find, Arlo. Thanks. Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 11:28:04 -0400 From: ajb...@psu.edu To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Subject: [MD] Dissertation re/Pirisig and Postmodernity

Re: [MD] Julian Baggini: This is what the clash of civilisations is really about

John, On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 12:12 PM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote: Dan! the busy man. On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 12:06 AM, Dan Glover daneglo...@gmail.com wrote: John, Jc: The way Pirsig said it was, I believe, that individuals react to DQ where committees, don't. Dan

Re: [MD] Julian Baggini: This is what the clash of civilisations is really about

David, On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 12:23 PM, david dmbucha...@hotmail.com wrote: Dan said: Somehow this doesn't seem quite right... how he [Baggini] lumps moral relativism and pragmatism into one group. But being as I am not a philosophy major and that I spend most all my time making up stories

Re: [MD] Julian Baggini: This is what the clash of civilisations is really about

From This is what the clash of civilisations is really about by Julian Baggini [http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/apr/14/comment.comment3?CMP=share_btn_link] I don't usually consider either the Ministry of Defence or the Vatican to be prescient founts of wisdom. But when two such

Re: [MD] Julian Baggini: This is what the clash of civilisations is really about

John, On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 3:07 PM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Dan, On Sun, Jun 7, 2015 at 4:49 PM, Dan Glover daneglo...@gmail.com wrote: Hey, Dan: If you want to break up the question into two parts, great. Let's consider it from the social vs intellectual levels

Re: [MD] Julian Baggini: This is what the clash of civilisations is really about

Hey, On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 2:23 PM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote: dmb, On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 7:48 PM, david dmbucha...@hotmail.com wrote: Is it pragmatic to mythologize an absolute? No, certainly not. Jc: Let's divide this question up into two different aspects - the

Re: [MD] Teaching ZMM

Matt, On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Matt Kundert pirsigafflict...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Everyone, Last year I had the opportunity to teach ZMM a couple times for Honors Freshmen Composition. It was fun. I have the opportunity to do so again, so I thought I'd ask the group if they have

Re: [MD] Julian Baggini: This is what the clash of civilisations is really about

I'd say science pertains to a representation of reality. That's why science is malleable and subject to revision... no? On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Ron Kulp xa...@rocketmail.com wrote: John, What does science pertain to if not A kind of reality? On May 22, 2015, at 3:09 PM, John Carl

Re: [MD] Paths To Dynamic Quality?

... where if a person became too famous they'd find hell instead of the nirvana they thought they'd find and it struck a chord. Anyway, as ever, good to hear from you guys- stay well :) Great to hear from you too! Thanks, Dan Cheers Horse On 29/03/2015 20:20, Dan Glover wrote: Adrie

Re: [MD] Paths To Dynamic Quality?

Hey, On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 11:27 AM, ngriffis ngrif...@bellsouth.net wrote: Ron wrote: ... The passions are rejected. Pirsig, on the other hand, seems to place more importance on emotion and feeling as a guiding principle toward intellect. To shift Ron's meaning a bit, I wonder if

Re: [MD] Paths To Dynamic Quality?

://www.danglover.com Adrie 2015-03-29 10:15 GMT+02:00 Dan Glover daneglo...@gmail.com: Hey, On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 11:27 AM, ngriffis ngrif...@bellsouth.net wrote: Ron wrote: ... The passions are rejected. Pirsig, on the other hand, seems to place more importance on emotion and feeling as a guiding

Re: [MD] Lila's doll

John, On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 1:48 PM, T-REXX Techs trexxte...@bellsouth.net wrote: Near the end of Lila Pirsig narrates Phaedrus' encounter with Lila's abandoned doll. It's relatively brief in terms of the whole book, but it seems to have been important to Pirsig. It also raises the

Re: [MD] What is the present?

Arlo, On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 1:47 PM, ARLO JAMES BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu wrote: Hi All, Just sharing this, as it was brought to my attention today. The Straight Dope question of the day is What is the present?. http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/3214/what-is-the-present

Re: [MD] A Metaphysics of Quality Primer Website moq.is

Joseph, On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 3:44 AM, Jacob Postma jacobpos...@gmail.com wrote: Hi David, Hi all, Brilliant presentation! I felt it outlined the main ideas of the MOQ in Lila quite lucidly. I've been meaning to re-read both Pirsig's books and this refresher about how profound the MOQ is,

Re: [MD] A Metaphysics of Quality Primer Website moq.is

David, I'd say you could drop the first in 'starts with experience first.' Redundant. I might also go with 'Rather than subjects and objects being primary,' etc. Reads better. If Dynamic Quality is undefined, how do you know it is always new and unexpected? Social quality patterns are cooperation

Re: [MD] The Myth of Sisyphus

be careful of how our voices are affected by our preconceived notions, because pure objectivity is impossible but not useless. Its a work in progress, this reality of ours. On Saturday, January 3, 2015, Dan Glover daneglo...@gmail.com wrote: Nikolas, On Fri, Dec 26, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Blodgett

Re: [MD] The Myth of Sisyphus

Ron, On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 9:32 AM, Ron Kulp xa...@rocketmail.com wrote: On Dec 23, 2014, at 12:02 AM, Dan Glover daneglo...@gmail.com wrote: Ron: Shakespeare answered That it is also the fear of death that makes it better to be than not to be. Then we have Socrates that asks What

Re: [MD] The Myth of Sisyphus

Nikolas, On Fri, Dec 26, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Blodgett, Nikolas nblodg...@worcester.edu wrote: NIK: Dying is often times like being born. Naked, confused, and screaming in discomfort. A natural part of the cycle, unfortunately; and I COULD say something cheesy about 'without pain, how would we

Re: [MD] happy new year

Hello Adrie Happy New Year to you as well! And to all! Dan On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 9:10 AM, Adrie Kintziger parser...@gmail.com wrote: Well, happy new year guys adrie -- parser Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.

Re: [MD] The Myth of Sisyphus

Nikolas, On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Blodgett, Nikolas nblodg...@worcester.edu wrote: Dan Glover daneglo...@gmail.com 11:32 PM (11 hours ago) to moq_discuss Nikolas, On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 2:24 PM, Blodgett, Nikolas nblodg...@worcester.edu wrote: Life is the answer to life itself

Re: [MD] The Myth of Sisyphus

Nikolas, On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 2:24 PM, Blodgett, Nikolas nblodg...@worcester.edu wrote: Life is the answer to life itself The meaning of life is truly reached through epiphany. It happens when you let go of certain things, which seems counter intuitive. The details of those things

Re: [MD] The Myth of Sisyphus

Ron, On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 7:15 PM, Ron Kulp xa...@rocketmail.com wrote: On Dec 22, 2014, at 2:18 AM, Dan Glover daneglo...@gmail.com wrote: The first paragraph caught my attention: There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life

[MD] The Myth of Sisyphus

All, I've just picked up a book of essays written by Albert Camus called The Myth of Sisyphus. Camus was the second-youngest recipient of the Nobel Prize for Literature and is one of my favorite authors.

Re: [MD] MOQ and science

David, On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 5:19 AM, david dmbucha...@hotmail.com wrote: Dan quoted from Wikipedia on Anti-realism: The term was coined by Michael Dummett, who introduced it in his paper Realism to re-examine a number of classical philosophical disputes involving such doctrines as

Re: [MD] MOQ and science

David, On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 1:28 PM, david dmbucha...@hotmail.com wrote: dmb quoted from Stanford: Anti-realists deny the world is mind-independent. Believing the epistemological and semantic problems to be insoluble, they conclude realism must be false. Dan said to dmb: Right,

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