Also, as in traditional music disciplines, intuitive (and partial)
understanding of principles can also be enough to make music, and I expect this
to be the same here. This is, again, generally independent of whether we find
this music good or bad.
Victor
On 29 Feb 2012, at 08:46, Victor
On 29 Feb 2012, at 08:46, Victor wrote:
In my opinion, the process here is as important as in traditional music
disciplines. So I think having a good knowledge of craft is essential for a
composer. In the traditinal world, this meant mastering counterpoint and
harmony, tonal and
On 28/02/2012 00:43, Michael Gogins wrote:
..
What I would dearly love to hear in this discussion is how Csound can
be improved to facilitate the creation of music, from people who do
use software to compose and create their music. Or how some other
software might be better, for that
On 28/02/2012 13:05, Andy Farnell wrote:
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 11:04:45AM +, Richard Dobson wrote:
So, one way and another, Computer music is so laden with
definitions and qualifications as to have lost all definition -
using it gives the listener no real information.
And yet, if I
On Tue, 28 Feb 2012, Andy Farnell wrote:
And mistake your own tinnitus for the finale.
Bwahaha! I went to that concert. :-)
--
Monty Brandenberg
--
dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website:
subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp
links
I don't think this conversation is useful. The only question I'd
ask is did this person make good music?, and I don't care at all about
his degrees or grants. One of the best mathematicians I've known
does not even have a high-school diploma. If I find such a person,
then it's interesting to
On the one hand, I completely agree with Bill, I'm only interested in
whether the music is good, and no, I don't think it's completely
subjective.
On the other hand, I do think there are many things it would be
advisable for a person who wants to write good music to know.
For someone who wants
Andy,
there's an opcode called active that does what you want 'numalloc' to do:
http://csounds.com/manual/html/active.html
On 2/28/12, Michael Gogins michael.gog...@gmail.com wrote:
On the one hand, I completely agree with Bill, I'm only interested in
whether the music is good, and no, I
On 28/02/2012 16:03, Bill Schottstaedt wrote:
I don't think this conversation is useful. The only question I'd
ask is did this person make good music?, and I don't care at all about
his degrees or grants. One of the best mathematicians I've known
does not even have a high-school diploma. If I
On 29/02/2012 11:41 AM, Richard Dobson wrote:
On 28/02/2012 16:03, Bill Schottstaedt wrote:
I don't think this conversation is useful. The only question I'd
ask is did this person make good music?, and I don't care at all about
his degrees or grants. One of the best mathematicians I've known
Hi Andy,
Some comments, and questions for clarification...
IIRC, most Music-N line of systems are multi-rate. That means we
have a fast computation rate, on which audio signals are calculated,
and a slower rate (obviously some integer factor of the audio rate),
usually called the control
Hi Richard,
On 27/02/2012 3:01 AM, Richard Dobson wrote:
On 26/02/2012 11:33, Ross Bencina wrote:
..
Perhaps I'm not being clear. My point is about being able to execute
arbitrary code at an arbitrary time based on the value of some
signal(s). The zero crossing thing was a simple example.
On 27/02/2012 21:00, Ross Bencina wrote:
..
And as I have already said. Computer musicians, must be programmers *by
definition*. Otherwise they are musicians, using computers.
But there is no single universally agreed definition of Computer
musician. It is very likely a super-category. You
On 28/02/2012 8:55 AM, Richard Dobson wrote:
On 27/02/2012 21:00, Ross Bencina wrote:
..
And as I have already said. Computer musicians, must be programmers *by
definition*. Otherwise they are musicians, using computers.
But there is no single universally agreed definition of Computer
On 27/02/2012 22:05, Michael Gogins wrote:
..
The actual blocks of audio samples will probably still be there... but
it would be nice if one didn't have to think about them.
Come to think of it, what with a-rate and k-rate variables in Csound
orchestra language, WE don't have to think about
and with the same k and a variables we can still think about each sample of the
signal, if we need to.
On 27 Feb 2012, at 22:42, Richard Dobson richarddob...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
On 27/02/2012 22:05, Michael Gogins wrote:
..
The actual blocks of audio samples will probably still be
This has become a somewhat interesting and relevant discussion, in
that we are preparing to rewrite the internals of Csound to at least
some extent.
I have been using Csound since the late 1980s, I have contributed a
number of features and opcodes to Csound, and I have influenced the
current
On 27/02/2012 22:15, Ross Bencina wrote:
..
On Feb 26, 2012, at 12:48 AM, Ross Bencina wrote:
In my view, anyone who cares about being a composer of
*computer music*
(in the context of this discussion) needs at least the following (or
equivalent) undergraduate knowledge:
1) music
On Feb 26, 2012, at 12:48 AM, Ross Bencina wrote:
In my view, anyone who cares about being a composer of *computer music* (in
the context of this dicussion) needs at least the following (or equivalent)
undergraduate knowledge:
1) music composition degree
2) computer science and/or
On 27/02/2012 1:11 AM, Brad Garton wrote:
We're fooling around with the new Max/MSP gen~ stuff in class, it
seems an interesting alternative model for low-level DSP coding.
Once they figure out how to do proper conditionals it will be really
powerful.
Why anyone would want to use a visual
On Feb 26, 2012, at 5:13 AM, Richard Dobson wrote:
One way or another, every user is limited by what those systems do not enable;
Yes!
and I would argue that of all of them, Csound offers the fewest limitations.
No!! :-)
(and the no refers doubly to 'let's not have
On Feb 26, 2012, at 9:25 AM, Ross Bencina wrote:
Why anyone would want to use a visual patcher to write low level code is
beyond me though. Managing complexity in Max is already a nightmare compared
to using text-based development methods and tools. Not to mention how quickly
you can type
On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 09:11:10AM -0500, Brad Garton wrote:
On Feb 26, 2012, at 5:13 AM, Richard Dobson wrote:
It is rather more flexible than Max/MSP, say, because you can if you want
to run a single-sample vector, whereas MSP has always been fixed to a
64-sample block size.
I don't
On Feb 26, 2012, at 9:38 AM, Andy Farnell wrote:
For a long time, there has been the equivalent trick to that which Michael
mentions for Csound, setting ksamps = 1, only in Pd/Max you set blocksize =1.
While these seem superficially similar, and both have the same outcome that
you can do
On 27/02/2012 1:22 AM, Brad Garton wrote:
I would like to agree with you, because I also value all these things
(and am pretty much a dilettante in all four). But I see an analog
with the is a DJ*really* a [computer music] composer? question
that floats around (or in an earlier generation, is
On Feb 26, 2012, at 9:48 AM, Ross Bencina wrote:
Then there is the whole schtick of composer as Auteur directing the technical
minions to do the programming for him/her.
Oh my *favorite* paradigm! Ya just gotta love the cultural model that puts
forward, too.
brad
On Feb 26, 2012, at 12:48 AM, Ross Bencina wrote:
..
1) music composition degree
2) computer science and/or software engineering degree
3) electrical engineering degree
..
Hmm, software engineering would preferably be covered by EE, but of
course there are differences in emphasis.
And I
On 26/02/2012 14:11, Brad Garton wrote:
On Feb 26, 2012, at 5:13 AM, Richard Dobson wrote:
It is rather more flexible than Max/MSP, say, because you can if
you want to run a single-sample vector, whereas MSP has always been
fixed to a 64-sample block size.
I don't think that's actually
On Feb 26, 2012, at 12:48 AM, Ross Bencina wrote:
In my view, anyone who cares about being a composer of *computer music*
(in the context of this discussion) needs at least the following (or
equivalent) undergraduate knowledge:
1) music composition degree
2) computer science and/or
On 26.02.12 16:46, Theo Verelst wrote:
Of course most all computer languages have serious limitations, too:
none allow explicit parallel programming concepts, native associative
behaviour, and even simple mathematical reasoning takes a heavy LISP
program to begin with (Like Maxima), and a lot of
On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 04:01:52PM +, Richard Dobson wrote:
For my sonification work for LHCsound, I used Perl to parse data
files and generate Csound scores, simply because it is a task Perl
is canonically optimised to do and scripts can be run up very
quickly.
Just a quick +1 for
On 26/02/2012 05:48, Ross Bencina wrote:
..
(1) An efficient way to implement a runtime compiler for block-based
audio DSP chains (these are what are in software synthesizers)...
which usually are based on
As if block-based DSP chains are the only way to make sound with a
computer.
Indeed
The only language I'm aware of that allows the design of direct
sample-massaging code in the language itself is chuck.
CLM? Or do I misunderstand something? When I put on my old
and battered composer's hat, I'd say the GUI made me do it
is not very persuasive. In linguistics, it's known
On Feb 25, 2012, at 2:23 PM, Bill Schottstaedt wrote:
The only language I'm aware of that allows the design of direct
sample-massaging code in the language itself is chuck.
CLM? Or do I misunderstand something?
Aha -- my 'weasel-wording' was aware of. Of course CLM! My
awareness ain't
Hi Andy,
On 25/02/2012 5:05 AM, Andy Farnell wrote:
The problem with plug unit generators languages for me is that they
privilege the process (network of unit generators) over the content
Some really interesting thoughts here Ross. At what level of
granularity does the trade-off of control,
On 25/02/2012 2:38 PM, Adam Puckett wrote:
What is WaveRT? I don't see it in the tarball.
WaveRT is a recent WDM-KS driver sub-model that was introduced in
Windows Vista. It is the version of WDM-KS that people seem to get
excited about as offering the lowest latency and efficiency. I can't
Yeah, no shit just hit the fan... When you least expect it...
On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 2:26 AM, robert bristow-johnson
r...@audioimagination.com wrote:
On 2/20/12 10:28 AM, douglas repetto wrote:
Hi Adam,
Welcome to the list. It's slow right now, but no doubt it'll flare up
again soon!
On 26/02/2012 6:23 AM, Bill Schottstaedt wrote:
In linguistics, it's known as
the Great Eskimo Vocabulary Hoax.
It's also known as the Sapir-Whorph Hypothesis. There are strong and
weak versions of the hypothesis. The whole thing isn't necessarily
completely a hoax.
Hi Brad,
On 24/02/2012 3:01 PM, Brad Garton wrote:
Joining this conversation a little late, but what the heck...
Me too...
On Feb 22, 2012, at 9:18 AM, Michael Gogins wrote:
I got my start in computer music in 1986 or 1987 at the woof group at
Columbia University using cmix on a Sun
My biggest concern with audio programming languages is the audio
callback. I wonder if there is a way on Windows with the classic
mmsystem.h and winmm to get low latency? Maybe call the function more
times? I'm not sure how they really work though, I'd just like a way
to render audio in realtime
Ross is correct. I know that RTcmix supports real-time audio - I was
using it that way just last week. What I meant is that before you run
a new synthesis routine in RTcmix, you have to compile its C++ source
code.
I was trying to get LuaJIT to do this (run DSP code immediately). I
created the
On Friday 24 February 2012, at 19.05.47, Andy Farnell
padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk wrote:
The problem with plug unit generators languages for me is that they
privilege the process (network of unit generators) over the content
Some really interesting thoughts here Ross. At what level of
Hi Charles,
On 24/02/2012 10:45 PM, Charles Turner wrote:
Anything else is just plugging unit generators together, which is limiting
in many situations
Has it escaped me that Audio Mulch supports this kind of interpretation?
Hi Charles,
I'm not exactly sure what you think has escaped
On 25/02/2012 4:50 AM, Adam Puckett wrote:
Is there a minimal example of a complete working program that renders
a sine wave in realtime using Kernel Streaming that will compile with
just a bare MinGW install? (I have the latest GCC 4.5 on Windows XP
Service Pack 3). Which DirectX SDK do I
What is WaveRT? I don't see it in the tarball.
On 2/24/12, Ross Bencina rossb-li...@audiomulch.com wrote:
On 25/02/2012 4:50 AM, Adam Puckett wrote:
Is there a minimal example of a complete working program that renders
a sine wave in realtime using Kernel Streaming that will compile with
Joining in late I have been using real-time Csound since 1996. I
also write much of my music in C to create scores to drive Csound, and
the rest directly in Csound. While I do not really do real-time I
know that many of our users do, and as for installation, there are
Debian and SuSE
On Thursday 23 February 2012, at 14.03.54, Emanuel Landeholm
emanuel.landeh...@gmail.com wrote:
There is a another approach you could take when summing many voices
that may be correlated in time and frequency, Indiividually pass your
voices through a simple 2:nd order all pass with semi random
For example, the strings are made from a few sawtooth waves starting at random
phases, then having pitch and amplitude randomly modulated. The random
modulation is absolutely essential for avoiding that harsh, metallic sound,
but I suspect that it also has the side effect of reducing the
On Thursday 23 February 2012, at 16.17.38, Adam Puckett
adotsdothmu...@gmail.com wrote:
Interesting. How would you make an ear ringing sound?
That's a good question...! :-D
I was just thinking of Half-Life 2, which has this feature. They're playing
the same pre-generated waveform, AFAICT. It
doesn't cause a
bassy ringing in your ears).
Tom
-Original Message-
From: music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu
[mailto:music-dsp-boun...@music.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of David Olofson
Sent: 23 February 2012 16:15
To: music-dsp@music.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [music-dsp] a little about
Thomas Young thomas.young at rebellion.co.uk wrote at Thu Feb 23
11:39:36 EST 2012
..
The frequency of the ringing is not a function of the sound that
damaged your ears (a super loud bassy sound doesn't cause a bassy
ringing in your ears)
..
There's real danger in mid-sized powerful
To: music-dsp@music.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [music-dsp] a little about myself
On Thursday 23 February 2012, at 17.10.52, David Olofson da...@olofson.net
wrote:
On Thursday 23 February 2012, at 16.17.38, Adam Puckett
adotsdothmu...@gmail.com wrote:
Interesting. How would you make an ear
On 23/02/2012 17:53, Alex Stahl wrote:
Um, this was in the mid 1970's. I was in high school, my neighbor had one of
the first Putney's (EMS VC3 analog synth) in the US. ... and more importantly,
my neighbor ended up giving me the VCS3, that I still have:).
I think you need to big up the
Joining this conversation a little late, but what the heck...
On Feb 22, 2012, at 9:18 AM, Michael Gogins wrote:
I got my start in computer music in 1986 or 1987 at the woof group at
Columbia University using cmix on a Sun workstation.
Michael was a stalwart back in those wild Ancient Days!
...@music.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of Adam Puckett
Sent: 22 February 2012 13:45
To: A discussion list for music-related DSP
Subject: Re: [music-dsp] a little about myself
It's nice to see some familiar names in Csound's defense.
Here's something I've considered since learning C: has anyone
(attempted
Speed of development is an issue, as turning ideas into sound uses
considerable human cognition, echoic memory to listen, serial and
linguistics faculties to interpret, and then geometric mathematical
and procedural acrobatics to adapt the internal model. C gives great
flexibility and control,
I have done this several times and plan to do more.
I got my start in computer music in 1986 or 1987 at the woof group at
Columbia University using cmix on a Sun workstation. cmix has never
had a runtime synthesis language; even now instrument code has to be
written in C++. Score code can be
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 09:18:11AM -0500, Michael Gogins wrote:
I am writing an article about composing in C++ with the Csound API and
CsoundAC, and I will try to get it published in the Csound Journal or
elsewhere.
Definitely looking forward to that Michael.
--
dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp
+1
Am 22.02.2012 um 15:16 schrieb Andy Farnell:
Speed of development is an issue, as turning ideas into sound uses
considerable human cognition, echoic memory to listen, serial and
linguistics faculties to interpret, and then geometric mathematical
and procedural acrobatics to adapt the
Yes, it's quite a challenge to compose music just using C/C++. Lately, I
have tried to compose entire pieces written in C++. Many of them are just
monolithic feedback systems with oscillators, filters and some low-level
feature extractors. There are no hierarchic levels of control functions,
the
For me as a composer working almost exclusively with algorithmic
composition and synthesis, the question of language is complex. It's
not just the power of the language, but also the ease of writing code,
plus the time for building, plus the time for maintaining any
necessary build system and
More recently, I set out to hack a tiny, fast, usable sound engine for games,
and ended up with ChipSound
Nice idea.
I'm using it in my WIP game Kobo II; all sounds still built from sine, saw,
triangle, square waves and noise, no filters or anything. Going to do some
(possibly recursive)
you mean like:
in pure python, without external libs etc, synthesizing every single
sample, in one file.py:
http://paste.org/45689
OR
PPEPPS: Pure Python EP: Project Solvent
$ git clone
git://labmacambira.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/labmacambira/FIGGUS
$ cd FIGGUS
$ sudo python
On Wednesday 22 February 2012, at 18.39.22, Jerry Evans je...@novadsp.com
wrote:
More recently, I set out to hack a tiny, fast, usable sound engine for
games, and ended up with ChipSound
Nice idea.
I'm using it in my WIP game Kobo II; all sounds still built from sine,
saw, triangle,
David,
How did you mix all the sounds in the song?
On 2/22/12, Jerry Evans je...@novadsp.com wrote:
On 22/02/2012 19:33, David Olofson wrote:
There is a version here, actually:
http://eel.olofson.net/download/ChipSound-20111207.tar.bz2
It was released along with a little Ludum Dare
What was the algorithm though? It sounds pretty high-end to me.
On 2/22/12, David Olofson da...@olofson.net wrote:
On Wednesday 22 February 2012, at 21.06.59, Adam Puckett
adotsdothmu...@gmail.com wrote:
David,
How did you mix all the sounds in the song?
No mixer, fx chains or anything
On Thursday 23 February 2012, at 03.16.10, Adam Puckett
adotsdothmu...@gmail.com wrote:
How are you not getting samples out of range with all those voices?
Just the usual deal: Scale amplitudes down. :-) I generally compensate
instruments so they all land at reasonable levels regardless of
Yes, I have a Focus 40 Braille display. They are made by Freedom
Scientific, who also makes a screen reading product called JAWS. I use
a combination of speech and Braille to ensure speedy code reading so I
can get an idea of the algorithms or messages.
On 2/20/12, Jerry lancebo...@qwest.net
you're not related to Miller Puckett, are you?
just curious.
and you're still welcome to the group no matter the answer.
--
r b-j r...@audioimagination.com
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
--
dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website:
No, I'm not related to Miller Puckette.
On 2/21/12, robert bristow-johnson r...@audioimagination.com wrote:
you're not related to Miller Puckett, are you?
just curious.
and you're still welcome to the group no matter the answer.
--
r b-j r...@audioimagination.com
d'origine- From: Emanuel Landeholm
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 3:54 PM
To: A discussion list for music-related DSP
Subject: Re: [music-dsp] a little about myself
But, if you don't mind me asking, what is it that you do music-dsp
wise? Mostly csound stuff?
It's just that the thought of a blind
On 21/02/2012 15:43, Didier Dambrin wrote:
True, I've never been able to install or figure out CSound, or make it
do anything.
Watching on YT, I see it can do realtime stuff? I've always thought it
was all command-line offline stuff (last time I tried in 2007).
It's been real-time for at
Well. I need to start using csound. To actually do things in the real
world instead of just solving idle mind puzzles.
On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 10:02 PM, Victor victor.lazzar...@nuim.ie wrote:
i have been running csound in realtime since about 1998, which makes it what?
about fourteen years,
It's very easy to use Csound to solve idle mind puzzles! I think many
of us, certainly myself, find ourselves becoming distracted by the
technical work involved in making computer music, as opposed to the
superficially easier but in reality far more difficult work of
composing.
Regards,
Mike
On
Hi Adam,
Welcome to the list. It's slow right now, but no doubt it'll flare up
again soon!
best,
douglas
On 2/18/12 9:55 PM, Adam Puckett wrote:
Hey list,
My name is Adam Puckett. I am a totally blind C programmer with an
associates degree in IT and an interest in DSP. I use a program
Hi Adam,
Please forgive my ignorance, but being blind, how are you able to program?
Jerry
On Feb 18, 2012, at 7:55 PM, Adam Puckett wrote:
Hey list,
My name is Adam Puckett. I am a totally blind C programmer with an
associates degree in IT and an interest in DSP. I use a program called
Adam,
I am also curious as to how you interface with a development
environment. Moreover, what are you working on? Also, wasn't there a
blind contributor around a few years ago? Your name does not ring a
bell for me, so I can only guess that you are number two (minimum)!
Also, isn't this a
Welcome Adam.
On Feb 18, 2012, at 6:55 PM, Adam Puckett wrote:
Hey list,
My name is Adam Puckett. I am a totally blind C programmer with an
associates degree in IT and an interest in DSP. I use a program called
Csound to create music, and I also play many instruments: guitar,
piano
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