[NSP] Re: small coals, and the peacock following the hen
Hi Matt, Could be, though I won't use facebook for the sake of my personal information ( 35years computing experience) , it may be just summer hols and many families are away regards Dave On 8/15/2012 6:17 PM, Matt Seattle wrote: And where has everybody gone? There's little activity on the NPS bulletin board and Dartmouth was asleep till Derek's post. Is it all happening on fyecebeuk now? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: March 2012 TOTM: "Adam a Bell" selected by Julia Say
John is quite right to postulate that the fingering WD would have used would not be that of today --- I don't think the old GHB used two roof tiles and a bit of string for a reed in his time ! There is far too much evidence pointing to the the idea of an 8ve and two or three extras up top -- Which, IMHO, brings us back round to reeds,staples and the possibilities of tuning the reed-staple pair to the chanter -- and yes I meant it to be that way round --- sadly this technique seems to be a victim of modern day haste -- this plus the technique known as "shading". If one asks a player of baroque oboe how many different ways of playing most of the notes on the top hand and your answer will probably be a smile ! Sometimes with shading and fingering one can lift a note or lower it significantly enough to accord or dischord with drones or another instrument -- On 3/1/2012 1:06 AM, John Dally wrote: From the playing the tunes on my various sorts of pipes, it seems clear that Dixon did play an instrument with a flattened 7th. But in my experience the flat 7th is sharper on Highland pipes than on SSP or most BP. I don't think his fingering was anything like modern Highland piping fingering though. And, personally, I like Dixon's tunes on the NSP and SSP best. That's not a judgement or historical argument, just a matter of personal taste. On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 3:52 PM, Gibbons, John <[1]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk> wrote: There is also the question of what did Dixon intend by his blank key signature? Did it mean 'this tune is in Gmix/Cmajor or Adorian'? Or did it mean, as with Highland pipe music, 'I am not bothering to say what the actual key signature is, as you know already'? John From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of Matt Seattle [[4]theborderpi...@googlemail.com] Sent: 29 February 2012 23:01 To: Dartmouth NPS Subject: [NSP] Re: March 2012 TOTM: "Adam a Bell" selected by Julia Say On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 10:33 PM, John Dally<[1][5]dir...@gmail.com> wrote: Dixon's tunes as transcribed in THE MASTER PIPER are in A mixolydian and the NSpiper has to take into account that there is more involved than simply transposing to G major, and in the case of some of the tunes he/she might just as well play them as written in THE MASTER PIPER. It's an interesting viewpoint, John. There is the precedent of Billy Pigg's 'Skye Crofters' played in nominal A on NSP. In what key do you play 'Athol Highlanders' on NSP? I have to say, it's not a problem for me. I don't play NSP. I have enough other problems. -- References 1. mailto:[6]dir...@gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk 2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:theborderpi...@googlemail.com 5. mailto:dir...@gmail.com 6. mailto:dir...@gmail.com 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4842 - Release Date: 02/29/12
[NSP] Re: March 2012 TOTM: "Adam a Bell" selected by Julia Say
Reading in F and playing in G is also very worthwhile -- all the renaissance and boaroque dance music --- Dave On 2/29/2012 1:39 PM, Gibbons, John wrote: Reading in A and playing in G is also a skill worth learning! It opens up an awful lot of the Scottish repertoire. John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Matt Seattle Sent: 29 February 2012 10:24 To: Dartmouth NPS Subject: [NSP] Re: March 2012 TOTM: "Adam a Bell" selected by Julia Say If anyone wants the dots of the Dixon version, they're in 'The Master Piper', available from NPS. If they need to transcribe it into G before playing it that will be a useful exercise. See the credit for the photo of the Edinburgh pub sign 'Jingling Geordie' which appears with the tune following Adam A Bell in the latest edition. A surprise to me, and a nice touch. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4840 - Release Date: 02/28/12
[NSP] Re: TOTM selection process: new proposal
Hi John, That sounds like a great proposal, brilliant learning possibilities and history background too Super Dave S On 12/14/2011 9:40 AM, John Dally wrote: How would the group feel if we changed the present tune/topic/theme selection process? There must be better ways to make the choice so that more pipers will want to participate and, equally important, there will be more useful discussion about the selection. Pete Stewart has been very helpful in the selection process so far, and I hope we will continue to work in tandem with the LBPS. Perhaps the authorities and masters among us would make the selection, telling us why they selected it and some of the background to the selection. Each month a new person would make his/her selection. I found Richard Evans comments on my Overseas entries extremely helpful. Likewise, perhaps the "Expert of the Month" would offer helpful and encouraging comments on the performances. What do you think? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1873 / Virus Database: 2108/4678 - Release Date: 12/13/11
[NSP] Re: ebay Northumbrian bagpipe (not)
Hi all, It has the look of a dudy/hummel from the other side of Poland, but for certain I wouldn't mind the bellows to help with our fire, it looks like a dual action type. We ought to ask Pavel Cip (sorry for any spelling errors in his name) Dave On 12/7/2011 11:35 AM, Gibbons, John wrote: A puzzle - are there any ethnoorganologists out there who can identify the thing? John From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of John Dally [dir...@gmail.com] Sent: 06 December 2011 22:29 To: NSP group Subject: [NSP] ebay Northumbrian bagpipe (not) Some sort of euro-pipe, very expensive for what it is, but not what the seller claims it is: ebay item #170741342181. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1873 / Virus Database: 2102/4660 - Release Date: 12/06/11
[NSP] Re: Kathryn Tickell
Thanks for the link -- time in 1h12'ish to 1h33 on the one I played Dave S On 11/18/2011 11:44 AM, Di Jevons wrote: A fiddler friend of mine has sent me a BBC iplayer link to a Radio Scotland programme Travelling Folk featuring Chris Stout from Fiddlers Bid. Also on the same programme is Kathryn Tickell. Kathryn is on from about 8 minutes for about half an hour. Here is the link for anyone who's interested [1]http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0175jnm#segments -- References 1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0175jnm#segments To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1869 / Virus Database: 2092/4622 - Release Date: 11/17/11
[NSP] Re: Alice Burn & Emily Hoile
I agree, and the playing great, I hope it continues to reach new heights and directions for NSP. As was said, it is a chamber instrument --- Dave S On 9/16/2011 2:47 PM, Richard Shuttleworth wrote: On 16 Sep 2011, at 13:18, Richard Shuttleworth wrote: Why did I get Rachmaninov? Richard (Puzzled in Quebec) Because that is the first item on in the programme. For Alice and Emily go to 1.09 (hours and minutes). Good luck Francis Ah, I was thinking minutes and seconds not hours and minutes (not used to classical radio programmes lasting more than an hour). Thank you Francis. Lovely playing, I feel old :-)) Richard To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3900 - Release Date: 09/16/11
[NSP] pastoral
Hi, does anyone have a pastoral set for sale, if so reply PM thanks Dave S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Playing with a man-ometer . . .
Hi Francis, well spotted, and well proportioned what ! Dave On 8/10/2011 1:23 PM, Francis Wood wrote: You really have to see this. A great demonstration of playing pressure, from full glory to Pipers' Droop. Especially the ending: http://youtu.be/fPedwnc5e_s Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] orchestrated
Hi, Does anyone know of any pieces set for brass band and NSP ? I have had a request to play with the local band and the request was for Amazing Grace and/or Highland Cathedral to which I have said I won't play either of these GHB tunes. I thought about Windy Gyle ( with permission to be asked for) but has it been orchestrated by anyone? Thanks Dave S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: TOTM/shameless plug
Hi all, After Dave Shaw piqued my curiosity I got round to playing with WSOTW and thought I would offer this - the ending is a bit of a fiddle, but whatever X:11 T:NPS Collection T:Whin Shields on the Wall C:John L. Dunk Q:1/4=100 M:2/4 L:1/16 K:G |d2 |:B2G2 G2B2 |A2D2 D2D2 |G2G2 GABc |d3B d2g2 |e2c2 c2e2 |d2G2 G2AB |c2E2 E2FG :| ABcd e2fg |decB ABGF |G3E G2B2 |e2B2 B2e2 |d3A d2e2 |a2e2 e2f2 |g3e g2f2 |e2d2 c2B2 |A2d2 d2fd :| A2d2 e2fg |a3g gfed |B2G2 GABG |A2D2 D2EF |G2G2 GABc |d6 g2 | e2c2 c2de |1 d2G2 G2AB |c2B2 A2G2 :|2 dedB GAGE |c2F Fd2G-||G3E G4 |] ciao Dave S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: TOTM/Drones
Hi -- I have posted the Mad Moll on Northumbrianpipers forum so all interested can have a look at an early version of the tune. Quite possibly it is a droneless undefined key tune -- I have no idea and am not qualified to hazard a quess Dave On 8/1/2011 7:37 PM, Matt Seattle wrote: On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:12 PM, John Dally<[1]dir...@gmail.com> wrote: Being a drone musician Peacock might have had an insight into the tonality of the tune. The first impulse is to think he just wanted to fit it on the keyless chanter. It's in Em (the relative minor of G). Ending on an A, the tune is usually said to be in Am which, which, as Barry points out, misses the point altogether. It's in 'A neutral', a gapped scale, neither major nor minor (although Peacock's version has a fleeting c, absent from other versions), it just happens to start on the 5th of the scale (e). I can't agree that it's in E anything. It fits perfectly because unlike most Highland pipe tunes the high a is absent, so no clipping required. -- References 1. mailto:dir...@gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3800 - Release Date: 07/31/11
[NSP] Re: TOTM/shameless plug
Hi Anthony, Would it be a possibility for you to play the 1697/8 Playford Mad Moll on your primitive set? If you could get a drone pair to G & C (assuming it's G setup) Mad moll is in Am and has no Fnats in it. I have attached a scan for you -- I know the NSP site will strip it off --- if anyone wants a copy let me know and I will check with Barry/Tim to get it on site somewhere best Dave S On 7/29/2011 11:16 AM, Anthony Robb wrote: > Hello all > I've been reluctant to vote on this since our house is fighting back > whilst we put in a new kitchen, downstairs loo and new wee studio. > There is building dust everywhere and my pipes, mics and other gear are > packed away for the duration. > Even though I can't contribute musically I would go for Peacock. > Perhaps most will be familiar with the snippet: > > Aal the neet ower and ower > And aal the neet ower agyen > Aal the net ower and ower > The peacock followed the hen > > The cock's a dainty dish > The hen's aal hollow within > There's nee deceit in a puddin' > An' pie's a dainty thing > > I also think of (but no idea why or where it comes from) > > Won't ye come cuddle me cuddy > Now won't ye come cuddle me reet > Won't you come cuddle me cuddy > Just as ye did yesterday neet > > That's about all I can offer on TOTM but I also thought some might be > interested to know that I have put my chanter where my mouth is so to > speak and had a very happy > off-the-cuff couple of days putting down 16 tracks (4 of them double > tracked) on my keyless pipes (The Primitives as maker Bill Hedworth > called them). I did it primarily as a teaching resource (even though > there are a few finger-busting favourites) but I've been persuaded to > go for a proper production of it. > Interested parties can go here to see what Stewart Hardy makes of it: > [1]www.robbpipes.com > Thanks for any interest > Anthony > > > > -- > > References > > 1. http://www.robbpipes.com/ > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > - > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3793 - Release Date: 07/28/11 > > --
[NSP] utube vidoe
Hi all, Some piping to listen to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhSjIanP9EA&feature=player_detailpage ciao Dave S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: on keilder side
Thanks John, for the correction -- I had assumed and was wrong - sorry Kevin ! Dave S On 7/16/2011 12:00 AM, Gibbons, John wrote: Kevin, Tom Anderson, who wrote it, explained in an interview in 1970, printed in his book ''Ringing Strings'' ''I was coming out of Eshaness in late January 1969,the time was after 11pm and as I looked back at the top of the hill leading out of the district I saw so few lights compared to what I had remembered when I was young. As I watched, the lights started going out one by one. That, coupled with the recent death of my late wife, made me think of the old word 'Slockit' meaning, a light that has gone out, and I think that was what inspired the tune.'' John From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of Dave S [david...@pt.lu] Sent: 15 July 2011 22:27 To: Kevin Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: on keilder side Hi, It's probably a lighthouse on a promontary called "Da Slockit" in the Shetland Islands -- super tune on NSP. Tom Anderson wrote some superb melodies for violin --- and the Kielder is a village and a river Dave S On 7/15/2011 10:43 PM, Kevin wrote: Hello to All, i have just had a question from my Swedish friend who is asking the meaning of a tune: "On one of Kathryn Tickells earliest recordings "on kielder side" theres a happy tune called "da slockit light" do you know the tune? which i can only guess means the turned of light?. What does it really mean? And what is on kielder side? Is it a river perhaps. Thanks. Mikael. " can anyone enlighten him on the title of the tune? kevin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3766 - Release Date: 07/15/11 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3766 - Release Date: 07/15/11
[NSP] Re: on keilder side
Hi, It's probably a lighthouse on a promontary called "Da Slockit" in the Shetland Islands -- super tune on NSP. Tom Anderson wrote some superb melodies for violin --- and the Kielder is a village and a river Dave S On 7/15/2011 10:43 PM, Kevin wrote: Hello to All, i have just had a question from my Swedish friend who is asking the meaning of a tune: "On one of Kathryn Tickells earliest recordings "on kielder side" theres a happy tune called "da slockit light" do you know the tune? which i can only guess means the turned of light?. What does it really mean? And what is on kielder side? Is it a river perhaps. Thanks. Mikael. " can anyone enlighten him on the title of the tune? kevin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3766 - Release Date: 07/15/11
[NSP] Re: Mr Dunk - Inspector of Public Nuisances
from the last couple of mail it's a critiques slam dunk Dave H . . . Dunk and disorderly. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3764 - Release Date: 07/14/11
[NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe
Hi Francis, yes interesting indeed - the midi sounds like a minor plagiarize from a Purcell air in Dmin -- or bits of downfall of the djinn -- perhaps O'Carolan varied a tune based on Purcell or was it vice-versa -- I looked in Anderson vol 1 for Morpeth rant but could not find it -- does anyone have vol 2 or later with it in ? sods to the music moguls - keep music live Dave On 7/15/2011 3:57 PM, Francis Wood wrote: On 15 Jul 2011, at 14:48, Dave S wrote: The Arethusa is from a musical farce called "Lock and Key" and in the British Minstrelsy the melody is assigned to Shield. Hi Dave, That's interesting! More here: http://www.contemplator.com/sea/arethusa.html Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3764 - Release Date: 07/14/11
[NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe
Hi, The Arethusa is from a musical farce called "Lock and Key" and in the British Minstrelsy the melody is assigned to Shield Dave S On 7/15/2011 2:21 PM, Anthony Robb wrote: Hello Matt Lovely! --- On Fri, 15/7/11, Matt Seattle wrote: From: Matt Seattle Subject: [NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe To: "NSP group" Date: Friday, 15 July, 2011, 12:42 Impressive, Francis. Now you've even uncovered where Shield has been Haydn for all these years. On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Francis Wood <[1][1]oatenp...@googlemail.com> wrote: On 15 Jul 2011, at 10:41, Francis Wood wrote: > Finally, there is an odd, tenuous and completely inconsequential connection between Shield and Morpeth. . . . .and another odd, inconsequential and irrelevant fact in the present discussion. Shield is buried under the same stone as Salomon who 'brought Haydn to England' as the inscription states: [2][2]http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi= 95553 [3][3]http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi= 89571 Shield knew Haydn well and was one of his closest English friends. francis To get on or off this list see list information at [4][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[5]oatenp...@googlemail.com 2. [6]http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=955 53 3. [7]http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=895 71 4. [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=oatenp...@googlemail.com 2. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi= 3. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi= 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=oatenp...@googlemail.com 6. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=95553 7. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=89571 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3764 - Release Date: 07/14/11
[NSP] Re: Rants again
Etymology+Origin of rant (verb) 1598, from Du. randten "talk foolishly, rave," of unknown origin (cf. Ger. rantzen "to frolic, spring about"). The noun is first attested 1649, from the verb. Ranters "antinomian sect which arose in England c.1645" is attested from 1651; applied 1823 to early Methodists. A 1700 slang dictionary has rantipole "a rude wild Boy or Girl." On 7/11/2011 8:32 PM, Tim Rolls wrote: rant. Old Eng. 17th-cent. dance of the jig variety. It originated in Scotland an d N. England. Four examples occur in Playford's The Dancing Master (1657 and 166 5 revisions). The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Music | 1996 Any advance on Playford? Smith's New Rant (What happened to the old one?) A Scots Rant A rendition of The Italian Rant [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPL2FXqVc9M Tim On 11 Jul 2011, at 14:06, Gibbons, John wrote: 'Rant', as in 'Morpeth Rant', appeared in Vickers' MS in 1770, predating the Primitive Methodists. But 'Ranters' were another religious sect during the Civil War, so an old name was reapplied to the Primitive Methodists. The use of 'rant' for various dance tunes, in various rhythms, occurs through much of the 18th century, eg The Cameronian's Rant is a reel, The Collier's Rant a song in 6/8. The restricted use of the term to 4/4 tunes like The Morpeth Rant is much more s pecific, and local to Northumberland. It is perhaps significant that Scots Measures went out of fashion about the time rants came in. Both have 8 bars of 4/4. The main difference between the forms is that in the fo rmer, the cadences have a crotchet then two tied (syncopated) crotchets, while rants have a strong 3rd beat, and there is no tie. It would be interesting to know (though we never will) what Morpeth Rant looked like in Vickers before the page got lost. He retained syncopation in similar positions in some hornpipes. John -Original Message- From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[3]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Beha lf Of Tim Rolls Sent: 11 July 2011 13:46 To: NSP group Subject: [NSP] Re: Rants again Unencumbered as I am by knowledge, experience or understanding of dance steps, I too have asked this question. I am led to believe that the emphasis should be o n the third beat of the bar as this mirrors a larger/more emphatic step in the d ance. I had a look at Moody to see if there's any guidance linguistically. No definite help, we have: Rantan, Rantaan. Used in the phrase "on the rantan", indulging one's self in dis orderly and wild conduct as a form of high spirited enjoyment: a milder form of "on the rampaadge"(sic), "on the spree", e.g. He's gyen on the rantan, i.e. his frolic can be sympathetically excused. Ranter 1. A term applied in contemptuous disparagement to the more zealous members of t he Methodist Church - particularly of the Primitive Methodist body - who were gi ven to ardent impromptu prayers, lusty singing of hymns and loud ejaculations of Pious praise during their religious services. Thus: "Aa've left the Chorch (Ang lican) an' aa've joined the Ranters.Note, the Primitive Methodist Church origina ted in 1807-1810 and the term Ranter was first used in 1814. 2. By transference, applied to hymns sung in the Primitive Methodist and United Methodist Churches, or in the Salvation Army. These hymns, nowadays sadly out of favour, were characterised by rollicking tunes, half line refrains (sung by alt ernate parts) and rather crude sentiment; but they were enjoyable to sing and we re rendered both lustily and fervently: e.g. "Ay, that's a gud aad Rantor that h ymn" So can anyone fill in the gap between the hymns and the dance? Or any of the rol licking tunes? I'll put this on the NSP forum as a question too. cheers Tim On 11 Jul 2011, at 13:05, Gibbons, John wrote: Why has this rant thread gone so quiet all last week? What makes a tune sound like a rant, rather than a reel or hornpipe? If I take a (4 in a bar) hornpipe without triplets, speed it up a bit, but not a s much as a reel, smooth out the dotting a bit, and emphasise the odd beats at the expense of the even ones, will I get a rant? How essential are those 3-crotchet cadences? Are there any essential stylistic features that this attempt at a description mi sses? John To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - [5]www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1388 / Virus Database: 1516/3756 - Release Date: 07/10/11 -- References Visible links 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPL2FXqVc9M 2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. http://www.avg.com/ Hidden links: 6. http://www.realdictionary.com/?q=cry
[NSP] Re: Was Mr. Fenwick right?
Hello Barry, That seems like a very fair and well thought out description of the state of the art it's clear to me, but then the mind can be like a parachute Dave S On 6/22/2011 11:56 PM, barr...@nspipes.co.uk wrote: In the instruction book published by the Northumbrian Smallpipes Society in 1896, Mr Fenwick wrote, 'The note G is sounded by lifting the fourth finger off the bottom hole. To produce A, replace the fourth finger on the hole, and raise the third finger. The other notes are produced by closing and opening one hole at a time as given in the scale.' It seems to me that there are some deficiencies in this description. If we follow the instruction in the first sentence, we are left with a G sounding. This will go on until we decide to play another note. In order to play that other note we have to move two fingers in a coordinated fashion. I would suggest a better description as A note of G is sounded by lifting the fourth finger off the bottom hole for the length of time appropriate to the note and then replacing it. Other notes are played in the same fashion either by lifting a finger or thumb to open a tone-hole for the required duration and then replacing the finger or thumb or by depressing a key for the appropriate length of time and then releasing it. The major difference is that every note has a length as well as a pitch, the player is aware of the length of the note when he starts to play it, and the note isn't complete until it has been stopped. Mr Fenwick's description seems to me to owe a lot to the style of playing appropriate to open ended pipes such as GHB. Once the pipes are started, a stream of sound emanates from the chanter and the player is engaged in directing this to various pitches. It is a bit like operating a garden hose with no access to the tap. You can direct where the water goes but you cannot stop it. Conversely, with a closed end chanter NSP can produce distinct notes, and I think this is the way the instrument is best approached. Once we know how to play a G quaver, we can decide to play a G quaver without worrying about where the note will end. Our training will kick in and the fourth finger will descend at the appropriate time. we should imagine the whole of the note in our head before playing it. We can decide to follow that G with an A and to do that we lift the third finger at the appropriate time. and the fourth finger has already closed the G hole. Initially the gaps between the notes will be large, but with practise they *will* come down to an appropriate length. This description is my own but it owes much to detailed listening to recordings of Chris Ormston, to practice methods described by Inky-Adrian and discussions with other pipers who shall for now remain nameless. I feel that there are parallels with the methods used by Sports psychologists and coaches who encourage those they are teaching to break down the actions they require into well defined segments, and to have a clear vision of the outcome they wish to achieve before they start the action - we should 'think' the note before we play it. Does this make any sort of sense? Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3719 - Release Date: 06/22/11
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
nah Tim, propa poms Dave On 6/21/2011 3:54 PM, Tim Rolls wrote: Popapoms would be the Australian version then? Tim On 21 Jun 2011, at 14:44, Dave S wrote: Colin, that would be popapoms then, er, hope there are no cheerleaders affronted Dave On 6/21/2011 3:31 PM, cwhill wrote: So popadoms then :) Colin Hill On 21/06/2011 12:18, Gibbons, John wrote: When I was in a choir, a composer of a piece we'd commissioned explained legato, poco staccato and staccato respectively as pah, pom, and pop. For NSP, pah is a no-no, as notes need definite ends. So the spectrum we work between is somewhere between pom and pop. Occasional ventures into staccatissimo, as in Meggy's Foot, need a pip instead. But generally the notes should come out like peas, not lentils. John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu Sent: 21 June 2011 09:45 To: barr...@nspipes.co.uk Cc: rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Deaf/dead Oops, outlook tells me I've already sent a reply. I wonder what it said... Barry, et al. May I point you to the Dolmetsch dictionary http://www.dolmetsch.com/defss4.htm Thanks, this is very interesting but unfortunately reminds me that dictionaries are not infallible. (I have been working as a professional translator since 1974). And indeed that musicians and lexicographers cannot always agree on the precise meaning of the terminology they use. For example, here: http://www.winterkonzerte.de/fachbegriffe.html I found: "spiccato: Deutlich, abgesetzt, mit gestoßenen Noten (Bogentechnik bei Streichinstrumenten). staccato: Gestoßen, kurz, abgehackt. Gegensatz:-> legato" The terminology here is very vague, and doesn't explain the fundamental difference between staccato and spiccato, i.e. that staccato stays on the string and spiccato bounces. This is further confused by the fact that French-speakers tend to call any bouncing stroke "sautillé" even though this term more strictly applies to the rapid bouncing of the wood of the bow unassisted, as it were, and is related to tremolo. "sautillé" works well on fast semiquavers, spiccato can be used on relatively slow notes. It is performed with the upper arm and the bow reaches and leaves the string like an aircraft landing and immediatly taking off again or like a stone skimmed across water. Back to Dolmetsch: it does give "staccare (Italian) to detach, to separate each note" as the basic meaning. Then things get complicated. For example, I can assure you that détaché means what I described in my previous posting, as also found here: http://www.violinonline.com/bowstrokes.htm "Détaché indicates smooth, separate bow strokes should be used for each note (it does not mean detached or disconnected). Notes are of equal value, and are produced with an even, seamless stroke with no variation in pressure." Not because I necessarily trust this source (for example, it makes martelé and staccato sound like the same thing) but having been trained in Luxembourg (where the system and terminology are very much based on the French model) and Liège - and sometimes by French-speaking teachers - this is what I have learnt that the expressions mean. Back to Dolmetsch again: it implies that staccato is the same thing as gestoßen (German), détaché (French), piqué (French). Gestoßen certainly means détaché but piqué doesn't; it means something more like staccatissimo. So I wouldn't rely too much on dictionaries (for example, what is the relevance of the reference to Monteverdi's use of pizzicato in this context?) Personally, staccato is a word I use for musical effects and never for a piping style. I think it merely confuses matters. Quite rightly. But it does have a technical meaning for string players. Sorry if I sound like a know-all, but the above is merely a distillation of what I have gathered over several decades to be the consensus among practising string players as opposed to lexicographers and musicologists and is offered FWIW. Best, Chris (wer übt, hat's nötig) Birch To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3717 - Release Date: 06/21/11 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3717 - Release Date: 06/21/11 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3717 - Release Date: 06/21/11 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3717 - Release Date: 06/21/11
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Colin, that would be popapoms then, er, hope there are no cheerleaders affronted Dave On 6/21/2011 3:31 PM, cwhill wrote: So popadoms then :) Colin Hill On 21/06/2011 12:18, Gibbons, John wrote: When I was in a choir, a composer of a piece we'd commissioned explained legato, poco staccato and staccato respectively as pah, pom, and pop. For NSP, pah is a no-no, as notes need definite ends. So the spectrum we work between is somewhere between pom and pop. Occasional ventures into staccatissimo, as in Meggy's Foot, need a pip instead. But generally the notes should come out like peas, not lentils. John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu Sent: 21 June 2011 09:45 To: barr...@nspipes.co.uk Cc: rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Deaf/dead Oops, outlook tells me I've already sent a reply. I wonder what it said... Barry, et al. May I point you to the Dolmetsch dictionary http://www.dolmetsch.com/defss4.htm Thanks, this is very interesting but unfortunately reminds me that dictionaries are not infallible. (I have been working as a professional translator since 1974). And indeed that musicians and lexicographers cannot always agree on the precise meaning of the terminology they use. For example, here: http://www.winterkonzerte.de/fachbegriffe.html I found: "spiccato: Deutlich, abgesetzt, mit gestoßenen Noten (Bogentechnik bei Streichinstrumenten). staccato: Gestoßen, kurz, abgehackt. Gegensatz:-> legato" The terminology here is very vague, and doesn't explain the fundamental difference between staccato and spiccato, i.e. that staccato stays on the string and spiccato bounces. This is further confused by the fact that French-speakers tend to call any bouncing stroke "sautillé" even though this term more strictly applies to the rapid bouncing of the wood of the bow unassisted, as it were, and is related to tremolo. "sautillé" works well on fast semiquavers, spiccato can be used on relatively slow notes. It is performed with the upper arm and the bow reaches and leaves the string like an aircraft landing and immediatly taking off again or like a stone skimmed across water. Back to Dolmetsch: it does give "staccare (Italian) to detach, to separate each note" as the basic meaning. Then things get complicated. For example, I can assure you that détaché means what I described in my previous posting, as also found here: http://www.violinonline.com/bowstrokes.htm "Détaché indicates smooth, separate bow strokes should be used for each note (it does not mean detached or disconnected). Notes are of equal value, and are produced with an even, seamless stroke with no variation in pressure." Not because I necessarily trust this source (for example, it makes martelé and staccato sound like the same thing) but having been trained in Luxembourg (where the system and terminology are very much based on the French model) and Liège - and sometimes by French-speaking teachers - this is what I have learnt that the expressions mean. Back to Dolmetsch again: it implies that staccato is the same thing as gestoßen (German), détaché (French), piqué (French). Gestoßen certainly means détaché but piqué doesn't; it means something more like staccatissimo. So I wouldn't rely too much on dictionaries (for example, what is the relevance of the reference to Monteverdi's use of pizzicato in this context?) Personally, staccato is a word I use for musical effects and never for a piping style. I think it merely confuses matters. Quite rightly. But it does have a technical meaning for string players. Sorry if I sound like a know-all, but the above is merely a distillation of what I have gathered over several decades to be the consensus among practising string players as opposed to lexicographers and musicologists and is offered FWIW. Best, Chris (wer übt, hat's nötig) Birch To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3717 - Release Date: 06/21/11 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3717 - Release Date: 06/21/11 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3717 - Release Date: 06/21/11
[NSP] Re: Tune books with arrangements for other instruments
Hi Ian -- I think there are some books by Derek Hobbs on the NSP site cheers Dave S On 6/18/2011 6:59 PM, Ian Lawther wrote: I know there have been some books published in the past that include tune arrangements for Northumbrian pipes and other instruments though as someone who is normally a solo player I haven't taken much notice..until now. I need to encourage an 11 year old flautist and 12 year old cellist to practice during the school summer holiday (which starts next week here in the US) and thought trying some group playing might be better than getting each to do solo practice. Are there any books that would cover such instruments and if so anyone know sources? Beyond NSP there are other instruments I play that could join in with them so general British folk music arranged for assorted instruments would also be good. Thanks, Ian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3711 - Release Date: 06/18/11
[NSP] typo
oops --- creating having problems with seing at the moment Dave To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] UP open/closed fingering
Hello, Here is a link to Liam O'Flynn discussing the topic of styles. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQU84O8xZlE&feature=related and for those who follow LBPS and Paul Roberts winning piece this will be doubly of interest I enjoy listening to this musician cresting stories on his pipes -- fabulous Dave S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Love it -- copulating skeletons eh bien 'enri c'est formidable Thanks for that Barry cheers Dave S On 6/17/2011 10:44 PM, barr...@nspipes.co.uk wrote: Quoting Francis Wood : Ah. harpsichord duets. The sound of skeletons copulating on a corrugated tin roof. (Boult? Arnorld? cant remember!) oops should have been "can't" (Henri l'apostrophe) That's enuff B. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3709 - Release Date: 06/17/11
[NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions
OK OK I see I just got Visa'd ciao On 6/17/2011 10:17 AM, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: Bugger! Dartmouth doesn't like rich text. Here's a "proper" e-mail: __ From: BIRCH Christopher (DGT) Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 10:15 AM To: 'Dave S'; Inky- Adrian Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject:RE: [NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions Please define "can" ;-) >This CAN of worms just lost it's lid > > >> Anthony, CAN you play the NSPs? >> -- Plus ça reste la même chose ….. Csírz To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3707 - Release Date: 06/16/11
[NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions
Hi Inky-Adrian, This now brings us full circle -- doesn't it Please define "Play" and "Play the NSPs" This can of worms just lost it's lid Viva la Vida Dave S On 6/17/2011 2:22 AM, Inky- Adrian wrote: Anthony, can you play the NSPs? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Trad.nsp vs Dartmouth
Hi Inky, -- glad you keep one eye open and nope I can't play proper - I don't have the wrapper of the tradition anywhere near - so I don't even bother with any form of competition, I just like great instruments. Dave S On 6/16/2011 8:08 PM, Inky- Adrian wrote: The annual smallpipe Bitch and Bite comps. will be in July. There will be 6 classes: absolute sloppyness and running-your-notes-in, just damn right easy-playing, almost there, nearly normal, can't play like that-it's too hard and tight as a cats arsehole. Tommy Breckons would be proud of me! -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3707 - Release Date: 06/16/11
[NSP] Re: divorce
Thanks Francis, --- Original Message Subject: Re: [NSP] divorce Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:16:16 +0200 From: Dave S [1] To: Francis Wood [2] Hi Francis, I concur with all of your points, it's not bad at all that there are now 3 places to pick up info, the sad thing is that there is no co-ordination or contact between the 3 at this time -- useful info will only get to a limited audience when it comes out into the open from any one of the groups. That is the worst of this difference of opinion, and from memory I can't think of many reforms forced through by a minority in a democratic way but Inky is right to question the perhaps limiting behaviour on "The Nsp is" definition Julia - can you give us a bit insight into this area -- can't society ask for the opening of a separate class of "allied to NSP" to allow development -- this would allow shuttle drone blocks (certainly much easier to travel with and it does not damage so easily) and sordellinos ( basically an NSP with regulators), but it came from somewhere else - so ? and what of the phagotum - that would certainly create interest. Maybe someone will have ingenuity to build a "boehm keyed" NSP -- but will it be accepted? - narrow bore piccolo what next, LOL. Variety is the spice to life - but yes we need tradition but the core tradition may well benefit from a wider supporting role from acceptable close to or offshoots of the original type pipes. What was the original tradition based on anyway ? I am not qualified to even hazard a quess sso - suffice to say - the 17 key is way away from the original isn't it -- a keyless chanter -- or are there a variety of traditions ie no key - 4 key - 5,7,11,13,15,17 18, etc etc and then we have not yet begun on the drone possibilites. I think the Lowland and Border society comes closer to harmonizing it's members by saying "drones in a common stock" As for oil -- I certainly go for "neck oil" of most varieties, except flat beer cheers me dears Dave S On 6/16/2011 10:22 AM, Francis Wood wrote: > Hello Dave and others, > > I see things a little differently. > > Two things have happened here, the first being a move to have opinions, inform ation and other resources made permanently available in the form of a forum. Thi s is currently happening in the NPS Forum and the Traditional NSP Forum establi shed by Inky-Adrian. The advantage of the forum medium is clear - it provides a growing archive where threads are easily followed and remain related to their or iginal header. This is not so with the archived posts of this, or any other lis t. > > The second development is that there are now two separate forums. It might be argued that it's a pity that the party is going on in two different houses. My o wn view is that diversity is a good thing. Each forum can learn and develop from the other. It's also a good demonstration that the often-confused NSP and NPS a re not in fact the same thing, and that each can exist detached from the other. > > I'll continue to follow and enjoy this list, though I treat it very much as a newspaper, occasionally keeping cuttings but treating the rest as daily ephemera . As a repository of useful fact and opinion, it doesn't really work. > > By the way, does anyone have any good ideas about the right kind of oil to use ? > > Francis > > > On 16 Jun 2011, at 08:38, Dave S wrote: > >> Hi, >> It seems as though Inky has his wish. The tradition is now firmly no longer o ut in the open. >> This list served the purpose of introducing the beginner(shy fence-sitter to brash young expert) to light conversation/disagreement/proposition on all subjec ts around the wonderful instrument known as the NSP. It has done this well for a good number of years, but I believe the polarisation Inky wrongly thought was n ecessary to save his ideal methodology (rightly or wrongly) of the ONLY way to p lay NSP has wrought more damage than can now be imagined. >> I would liken it to attempting to harmonize the accents used by people in an y single country of the world. >> I find it rather saddening that this has occurred - I will continue to listen and reply to try and keep this list going -- will the rest of you out there do the same ?? >> >> Inky has a good heart but perhaps a too impulsive temperament has taken over in this case -- why not teach your method to the masses by force of persuation, Inky, and not by force of typing. >> Of course there are multiple sides in the recent situation but I hope our lov e the instrument, it's possibilities and it's beatiful music will eventually pre vail over the hot tempered reactions. >> >> ciao >> >> Dave S >> >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see l
[NSP] test
Just checking my send connection Dave S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] abc visualizer
Hi all, For ABC fans I came across this FREE player from Myriad -- it will load midis abc and other types of music files -- and give the notation from the abc or midi -- and play them back - can handle multiple staves http://www.myriad-online.com/en/products/melodyplayer.htm It will handle fairly large abc's -- excellent for practise as it has a metronome Try it out -- enjoy Dave S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] article by J.D.
Hi John, I agree wholeheartedly -- I can't think of a more wondrous thing than pipes played with emotion and "soul" -- if they are in tune that is --- Dave S On 5/23/2011 6:52 PM, John Dally wrote: Melodeon.net is a remarkably interesting and helpful resource if you're a box player. One of the things they do is have a "tune of the month" where members vote on a tune out of a list of four and then everyone is invited to post their rendition of it on [1]youtube.com. The moderators also select a theme, like "Irish tunes" or "wedding tunes" or something like that. I have found this to be a real boost to my learning to play the melodeon, learning tunes, connecting with folks around the world, getting good advice. The remarkable thing is that I haven't come across a negative comment or any comment that wasn't made with the best intentions. Of course, people do have their favorite instruments and styles, etc., and some have their bugaboos, but overall it's a very encouraging internet community. Perhaps, we could doing something like this here on the NSP newsgroup. If even only a few people think this is a good idea and want to participate I think it would be a good way to keep the conversation going and help each other out. It also gives something for people to work towards, like a competition without the stress and judgement. Perhaps one of the reasons the melodeon group is so friendly is that they don't have competition built into their culture the way pipers do. (For a diatribe on the subject see my editorial at [2]www.theotherpipers.org). Anyway, if this seems like an interesting idea to enough people perhaps we could name a "tune of the month" for June by this coming weekend. cheers, John Dally -- References 1. http://youtube.com/ 2. http://www.theotherpipers.org/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1375 / Virus Database: 1509/3653 - Release Date: 05/22/11
[NSP] Re: whatever
Hi Adrian, Seems to me to be a very small Bassoon, double reed --- lots of keys, you know the one that developed from the Dulcian (one or two keys only), that is used in all styles of music. The Dulcian lost favour and now is little known outside renaissance circles. I would think that the same happened to the NS and was lucky enough to have some avid followers who prolonged it lifespan by adding keys, but this is pure conjecture. Why strangle development ? Hotteterre and Boismortier had a lot more to do with NS than most people know. Hotteterre (late 1600) added the first stacatto smallpipe to a bagpipe, Boismortier made his living from wriring music playable on smallpipes -- Alice, I find, has a refreshing view of the instruments possibilities, which in turn may well extend the lifespan of the instrument which is no bad thing. It keeps makers and teachers and in business and live music live. If Alice were to choose a second instrument I would recommend Bassoon, where agile thumbs are a necessary part of playing. Anyway the list has been quiet Thumbs up Dave S On 5/22/2011 3:25 AM, inky-adrian wrote: Hello all, to play so many notes with the thumb? What sort of instrument is this. First it was holes, fingered, then a Top A key? Then more key's,7. Then more key's,17. Whatever! We now have some-one playing 60-odd key's in 78 note's? Correct me if I'm wrong. This is very strange. The correct playing method will die and people, like you Anthony , will make money. I'm not influenced by money. I do promote the correct way of playing the Northumberland Small-pipes, as does Mr Ormston; for free! I hope the Northumberland small-pipes would die, as Tom Breckon's agreed with me, it should. your's Fingerless Adrian -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1375 / Virus Database: 1509/3651 - Release Date: 05/21/11
[NSP] Re: Clough v Reid - keys sequence
Hi Philip, This is another idea -- the bottom keys ( D - Eb I think) allow choice of finger - regards Dave S On 5/5/2011 11:10 AM, Philip Gruar wrote: > a.d.s wrote >> Clough played in A maj and C maj. The arrangement of the Clough >> arrangement of key's was C low at the left side and B at the right >> side >> and that would allow player's to play in B and play the Beeswing, >> Underhand and whatever. > > Thanks for the replies on and off-list so far. > As expected, there are differing opinions. > > Adrian - are you saying that a B left, C right arrangement will make > it significantly harder to play Beeswing, Underhand etc? Is the > classic CB style essential/desirable for the traditional virtuoso > repertoire? > > If I start making chanters with BC instead of the traditional CB, am I > sending non-standard instruments out into the piping world which will > hamper their future owners for years to come? Or will they join > Colin's chanters with ABC, low G's etc. as part of the rich tapestry, > which players will get used to? > > Should pipe-makers adopt a new standard with a left-side low B, but > try to make it still just as easy to hit in arpeggios down from G/D as > a right-side low B? > Maybe this should only be done where there is also a right-side C# > paired with D, but not where the C# is on the left? > > Philip > > > - Original Message - From: "a.d.s" > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 1:36 AM > Subject: [NSP] Clough v Reid > > >> Hello all, > I don't know of any player's since Clough that >> played in C except me and those that followed my example. Top C was >> added to my chanter by Colin, which was in F, which allowed me to play >> from low C to top C. This was a first as far as I know; bottom G >> didn't >> exist then. >> Adrian >> >> -- >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > - > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3615 - Release Date: 05/04/11 > > --
[NSP] Re: Free Book on Northumbrian Smallpipes
Thanks John, Dave Singleton On 4/30/2011 11:22 AM, John Liestman wrote: I have decided to "set my book free", so you can now download The Northumbrian Smallpipes Tutor from my website at [1]www.liestman.com for free. I am no longer offering the book in a printed and bound version for sale, although there are a few copies in England to be bought if you desire. Enjoy! -- John Liestman -- References 1. http://www.liestman.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3604 - Release Date: 04/29/11
[NSP] Re: Still looking for an F set!
I would recommend Uwe Seitz who lives near HeilBrunn in Germany, his set are A440 F so one can play at concert pitch with a consort/ensemble/ etc and push a bit for F+ Dave Singleton On 3/23/2011 3:35 PM, John Dally wrote: You want us to recommend a maker? ha, ha, ha. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 4:02 AM, Gordon Brown wrote: My wife Alison has a Burleigh D set is still looking for an F set so that she can play along with other pipers - not that there are many in East Anglia! If anyone has a set for sale or knows of one that may be available, please let me know. The alternative is that we look for a new set, although I'm bracing myself for the long wait. On that basis, does anyone have any recommendations for a nice traditional/conventional F set? As I've had a good year price is not the main consideration, quality and reliability are. Cheers Gordon -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3524 - Release Date: 03/23/11
[NSP] Re: Tuning/pitch
Hi Dave Thanks for the info -- my thought was based on looking at my copy flageolet (french) by Charlie Wells -- plays over 2 octaves chromatic with six holes, two on the back and four in front with large spooning inside round each tone hole, he said that's the way he gets the hole equi-distant and two octaves in tune -- always glad of snippits from the makers -- Dave S On 2/11/2011 11:32 AM, Dave Shaw wrote: #snip In an Irish chanter bore if you enlarge the bore round a tone hole, the first octave sharpens and the second octave flattens. Getting the right balance in the octaves is one of the great pleasures of making Irish chanters. snip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Tuning/pitch
I was under the impression that if cavities get carved inside a bore (not just pin-pricks of drill points) with the cavity around the sound hole area, it will reduce the pitch of that particular note to a slight extent in the bottom octave (and more so in the second octave, which is out of scope for NSP), so it may save a chanter fill and re-drill operation by "spooning" in the bore around the hole (let's say a bottom E that is too high). Dave S On 2/10/2011 11:38 AM, Julia Say wrote: On 9 Feb 2011, Philip Gruar wrote: Well, quite. One can both hear and feel the drill reaching the bore. Nevertheless it was something I was warned about, and was checked up on. Now I'm wondering about the acoustic effect of all those "dimples" that do occur in various makes of pipes (historical and otherwise) on what I believe is supposed to be a smooth shiny bore. (Not to mention all the "agricultural" standard bores that are about - this a phrase which makers fettlers sometimes use!) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Esoteric tuning relationships
Absolutely Francis, music is a sociable activity, I also think the idea is take your pipes out of the box and be able to muck in with any other type of instrument. I may be considered different but I like the idea of just saying - yep it's a Bb transposing, so treat it like a clarinet. I therefore set up for A=440( as close as is possible) and like the way it sounds. As for re-reeded pipes that get modded at the top end -- that would be a staple conicity variation, thus not just the old reed that was in it, it has to be the original makers staple -- Dave S On 2/9/2011 7:17 PM, Francis Wood wrote: Playing music is primarily a sociable activity and there seems to be little point in encouraging an NSP 'sharp-F ghetto' where players can only play comfortably with their own kind. For that reason, I think that anyone considering buying and learning pipes should consider whether they intend to play primarily with other instruments or just with with pipes . If pipe-makers are offering to provide pipes set up in these alternative pitches, they should make themselves known. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Bewicks "German Spa"
Hi Ian, Check out "Shotley Sword-makers" - it may have be a link to the spa and the German sword makers who emigrated in the time of King William Tschüss Dave s On 2/1/2011 5:09 AM, Ian Lawther wrote: I've just noticed a tune called "German Spa" in Bewick and wondered if it is, by definition, a Bad tune! Ian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3414 - Release Date: 01/31/11
[NSP] Re: Intonation
Hi, Years ago John Leistman wrote an article about balancing drone reeds, if you can find this article it will explain in great detail the why and wherefore of tuning drones --- and why each set is different. in short it's to do with the pressure each player uses and how and if they tune their drone reeds to the pressure they like to use to have their chanter "ring true" Dave S On 1/11/2011 1:40 PM, Colin and Cheryl McNaught wrote: Following on from these sage comments, does anyone have ideas about what causes some drones to be significantly more pressure sensitive than others. By this I mean their pitch varies more for a given change in bag pressure. Once they are adjusted for pitch and pressure there doesn't seem to be anything else to tweak without spoiling the pitch/pressure set-ups. I have a set that is very stable and another that has a couple of drones that aren't and would like to improve them. I always try to play other pipe sets when at NSP get-togethers and it's been my experience that every set I have played has some quirky notes. I'm sure there's a reed dependency in this too. Making small (often unconscious) adjustments in bag pressure seems to be a part of playing this instrument well (just as embouchure adjustments on, e.g. oboe, flute). Consequently, a set of drones that is more stable can result in a 'sweeter' end result than one that isn't. Colin (McNaught) On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 7:05 PM,<[1]gibbonssoi...@aol.com> wrote: As many notes on an NSP chanter can be bent about a quarter tone without putting the drones far out - at least on a good reed day - I guess one difference between a good piper and a fairly good one is the former will squeeze notes into tune unconsciously and accurately, the latter consciously and only fairly accurately. I often think of singing the note, so I have an idea of the pitch in my head, to aim for. Listening to the chord with the drones - if these are in tune - also helps with some notes. It is the notes that harmonise with the drones which are most exposed if out of tune, so recognising a just 3rd or whatever tells you you've got there. The singing trick doesn't work so well if you are still thinking equal-tempered, mind. So chords are better. Long notes are good practice for this - I wonder if this is one reason Tom Clough liked playing hymn tunes? 'Oh God our Help in Ages Past' (aka St Anne, or 'The Goldfish') is a good one for this, dead slow. I sometimes use this to see if the drones are 'really' in tune. When I started playing NSP after playing the flute for years, my embouchure would bend to try to bring notes in - ineffective of itself, but I found I was doing something useful as well, as the notes came more into tune (I pinched a non-existent thumbhole to get the top octave on the whistle, as well). That first set I had needed a bit of variable squeezing to bring some notes close to where they should be. Intonation is a mystery on most instruments, and the hardest part to get right. A related issue is tone colour - finger vibrato alters the harmonics of a note substantially, changing the colour a lot; pressure vibrato much less so. Taking a lower finger off the chanter may vary the pitch up or down, so you can use finger vibrato to improve the intonation as well as the colour. Or worsen the intonation, if you use the wrong finger. Knowing which lower finger moves which notes in which direction is something one ought to learn. I tend to use the same finger whatever, if it works. John -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:gibbonssoi...@aol.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3372 - Release Date: 01/10/11
[NSP] Re: Doubleday
Hello inky-adrian, This is interesting and thought provoking, but I would like to have your insight on where, and how, the precision can be found and appreciated. At my level of fumbling I need all the help I can get to begin to feel the phrases the composer unconsciously put together to make the pipes express his wishes. Thanks (we have winter here as well!) Dave S On 12/6/2010 2:14 AM, inky-adrian wrote: Hello all this instrument does not lack ability, it lacks players who can't play in the correct method; not many can do that. Expression is emphasised in precision. I'm not here to delineate. There is no more expression in those who can play the detached method with feeling. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Pipes with continuo?
Hi Richard, [1]http://books.google.lu/books?id=VoQXAQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq= %22essays+in+musicology%22&source=bl&ots=ITEFvN0Hii&sig=iIvdnoOEE_CRl_u bQ_wRLOiSuyQ&hl=en&ei=cRD4TOSQMY2dOrX-kbkI&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=resul t&resnum=1&ved=0CBEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false The link is on google books and is about hornpipes, but may help towards a part answer to your question, have a look at the book "essays in musicology ---page 150" regards Dave Singleton On 11/25/2010 6:50 PM, Richard York wrote: I was listening recently to a trio playing 17th/18th Cent. divisions on La Folia on the radio, and was struck afresh by how similar are some of the things appearing in the nsp variations. (And yet different.)[Special aside for "Round the Horn" listeners :) ] Divisions on viols or recorders were normally played with at least a bass, and/or a harpsichord or whatever, and our variations/divisions must come out of the same culture in the first place, whether it's later a parallel or a parent-child type development to get to where Peacock's sets arrived. So, given that pipes are generally thought of as a solo instrument, (correct me if not!) do we know at what stage of development the divorce from the continuo or ground bass instrument actually happened? Assuming it did. Do the smallpipes with their variations repertoire first appear having already made the musical separation, or was there any practice of playing them over a ground? (Please note, this *is* on topic!) Best wishes, Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - [3]www.avg.com Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3276 - Release Date: 11/24/10 08:34:0 0 -- References 1. http://books.google.lu/books?id=VoQXAQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22essays+in+musicology%22&source=bl&ots=ITEFvN0Hii&sig=iIvdnoOEE_CRl_ubQ_wRLOiSuyQ&hl=en&ei=cRD4TOSQMY2dOrX-kbkI&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. http://www.avg.com/
[NSP] Re: BBC Radio bagpipes programme
bill, i programmed it on satellite at 15:30 european time -bbc r7 ciao dave On 11/23/2010 2:18 PM, Bill wrote: Bill . . . are you looking at the correct schedule? This is on BBC Radio 7, not Radio Scotland Francis, My first message quotes the url for BBC Radio7 schedules for today. The bagpipes prog you quote isn't on the online schedule. So then I looked online again at Radio Scotland's Tom Morton prog which is on in the afternoon after 2 but the bagpipes thing you mention isn't on it. Now reading my (hard copy) Radio Times -yes your prog is listed so the online BBC schedule is at variance with the Radio Times! Bill This is what the BBC site states: Next on: Today, 14:30 on BBC Radio 7 Synopsis Tom Morton investigates Pipes and Politics - from Northern Ireland to Galicia via Scotland and Northumbria. From January 2004. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - [2]www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3271 - Release Date: 11/23/10 07:34:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - [3]www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3272 - Release Date: 11/22/10 08:35:0 0 -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 2. http://www.avg.com/ 3. http://www.avg.com/
[NSP] Re: BBC Radio bagpipes programme
Francis, many thanks for the tip -- I don't often get to see the radio times !! Dave Singleton On 11/23/2010 9:57 AM, Francis Wood wrote: BBC Radio 7 is broadcasting 'The Secret History of Bagpipes' at 14.30 today Described as 'Tom Morton investigates Pipes and Politics', this item may be of interest to NSP players. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - [2]www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3272 - Release Date: 11/22/10 08:35:0 0 -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 2. http://www.avg.com/
[NSP] Re: Where hast though been all the night?
Original Message Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: Where hast though been all the night? Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 18:33:22 +0100 From: Dave S [1] To: Matt Seattle [2] Hey Matt, carry on for me -- it's well worth the bandwidth, plus we get to see some new works in progress ciao Dave S On 11/4/2010 5:56 PM, Matt Seattle wrote: Before you read on - is anyone besides John Gibbons, Julia Say and myself interested in this? Seriously, please say so, I'd like to know, because if not, we can carry on the discussion privately. If anyone thinks the three of us are crazy, I would like to point out that I have been crazy for longer than them. I have refrained from reading Julia's and John's versions till I made mine public. I was very taken with this tune at the time of the second Bewick edition (1998) and used to play it a lot. I am pleased that (two) others also enjoy it. I note that it received zero attention until Richard York's hurdy-gurdy query, which is a sobering thought regarding the benefits of publication. You may need to add line breaks, I have just pasted my text as is. X:1 T:Where Hast Thou Been All The Night? C:R Reavely ms (strs 1-3) C:M Seattle (strs 5-8) Aug 1998 M:6/8 R:Air K:G e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B>cd|dgB c2e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B>cd|dgf d2:|] [|:e|dgf dgB|dgB c2e|dgf dgB|dgf d2e| dgf dgB|dgB c2e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B>cd|dgf d2:|] [|:e|dB/c/d/B/ gB/c/d/B/|dB/c/d/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|dB/c/d/B/ gB/c/d/B/|dgf d2e| dB/c/d/B/ gB/c/d/B/|dB/c/d/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B>cd|dgf d2:|] [|:e|dGe/f/ gGB/c/|dGA/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|dGe/f/ gGB/c/|dgf d2e| dGe/f/ gGB/c/|dGA/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B>cd|dgf d2:|] [|:e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B/A/B/c/d/G/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ c/B/c/d/e/G/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|] [|:e|d/G/g/G/f/G/ d/e/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/B/ c/B/c/d/e/G/|d/G/g/G/f/G/ d/e/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/c/ d2e| d/G/g/G/f/G/ d/e/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/B/ c/B/c/d/e/G/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|] [|:e|d/B/G/B/d/B/ g/B/G/B/d/B/|d/B/G/B/d/B/ cG/c/e/c/|d/B/G/B/d/B/ g/B/G/B/d/B/|dgf d2e| d/B/G/B/d/B/ g/B/G/B/d/B/|d/B/G/B/d/B/ cG/c/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|] [|:e/|d/G/A/B/c/d/ g/f/d/c/B/c/|d/G/A/B/c/d/ =f/e/c/d/e/c/|d/G/A/B/c/d/ g/f/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/c/ d2e| d/G/A/B/c/d/ g/f/d/c/B/c/|d/G/A/B/c/d/ =f/e/c/d/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|] -- To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - [4]www.avg.com Version: 9.0.864 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3236 - Release Date: 11/03/10 20:34:0 0 -- References 1. mailto:david...@pt.lu 2. mailto:theborderpi...@googlemail.com 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. http://www.avg.com/
[NSP] Re: small pipes simulator
Hi Julia, Could you send me a zip fiile with all the bits ? this is right up my street, I used to work in 6502 & 65c12 code. I may be able to set up and emulation for it. ciao Dave Julia Say wrote: On 20 Apr 2010, neil smith wrote: I don't know whether any readers know (or care) Yes to both. Forster Charlton devised a computer program for simulating the sound of the nsp and sold it to the BBC. It still exists, in the NPS archives. Unfortunately the equipment on which it would work is long obsolete. If anyone has access to a working BBC micro, and the time, inclination, and programming skills... Forster would occasionally emerge from the kitchen where he'd be concocting some kind of dubious stew I've heard about those, from both Dave McQuade, and Harry before he left us. Some things one is mercifully spared. bash a button on his keyboard, thus setting off a perfect rendition of some infernally difficult tune of his such as Harry's Rant. Infernally interesting, surely, rather like some of yours, which also have finger traps for the unwary in places! Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2823 - Release Date: 04/20/10 14:45:00
[NSP] Re: morpeth museum site
Hi Tim, it should be without, but then yesterday was once today, tomorrow will turn into today -- in time Dave tim rolls BT wrote: Hi Dave, Would that be today's world, rather than todays' world? Tim member, Apostrophe's preservation league. - Original Message ----- From: "Dave S" To: "Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site" Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:22 AM Subject: [NSP] morpeth museum site Hello all, Can some kind person pass on a more meaningful, corrected text for the Chantry to Ann -- or is this the level that passes for English in todays' world. extracted home page text follows:- * Housed in Morpeth's medieval Chantry buildings since 1987, the Bagpipe Museum his home to a unique collection , the foundation of which is the bagpipe collection of William Alfred Cocks (1892 - 1971), a clockmaker from Ryton, near Newcastle.** The pipes collection belongs to the Society of Antiquaries of Newcastle upon Tyne, and the Museum is supported by Castle Morpeth Borough Council.* To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2820 - Release Date: 04/19/10 08:31:00
[NSP] Re: Smallpipes Simulator
Hi Anthony, Don't miss the idea that one can clearly hear the beat note between mis-tuned drones with the Saymulator. This does actually give a target, and knowing that pressure controls all, in the real world, may well help beginners to start to use their ears. ciao Dave Anthony Robb wrote: Hellos apiece This is an intriguing idea but I can't help wondering whether simulator might be too strong a claim? In 35 years of piping tuition, not only in the UK but also Germany, NZ and USA, I've clocked up over 5000 tutee-hrs of experience and the first (also main and universal) stumbling block with our instrument is keeping the bag well-filled and maintaining a steady pressure. A smallpipes simulator that does not have this as part of its make up is a bit like having a flight simulator that only does the taxiing bit. There may be plans to provide under-arm pressure sensitive pads to simulate this main difficulty but until they are available perhaps a more accurate description would be in order? Cheers Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2820 - Release Date: 04/19/10 08:31:00
[NSP] morpeth museum site
Hello all, Can some kind person pass on a more meaningful, corrected text for the Chantry to Ann -- or is this the level that passes for English in todays' world. extracted home page text follows:- * Housed in Morpeth's medieval Chantry buildings since 1987, the Bagpipe Museum his home to a unique collection , the foundation of which is the bagpipe collection of William Alfred Cocks (1892 - 1971), a clockmaker from Ryton, near Newcastle.** The pipes collection belongs to the Society of Antiquaries of Newcastle upon Tyne, and the Museum is supported by Castle Morpeth Borough Council.* To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Open competition tunes
Hi Julia, don't worry too much -- I only just remembered that I asked 15 years ago !!! I would like to get some ideas of the set tunes e.g the set tune for the open class NSP soc 1993 was Scott Skinner's compliments to Dr McDonald - so if it's a no go ok but if there are any memories out there it would be mighty appreciated Dave Julia Say wrote: On 5 Apr 2010, Dave S wrote: Does anyone have a list of the open tunes and the year they were used for competition (where) going back 50 years ? Dave: Do you mean the "set" tunes - ones which were compulsory for every competitor? Goodness knows what I said 15 years ago - I'm having trouble with 15 minutes ago! Not all competitions had set tunes, and even for those that did, I think there's unlikely to be a continuous record. I doubt if there's even a record of whether they had set tunes or not at different venues. Finding the info for the NPS comps would entail reading through the last 50 years of minutes and seeing how many years the discussions include a record of set tunes. Free choice comps would be down to individuals who've jotted this info down pooling their resources to get some sort of record, which is a tall order. But if anyone wants to take it on.. Julia No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.800 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2792 - Release Date: 04/05/10 08:32:00 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Open competition tunes
Hi, Does anyone have a list of the open tunes and the year they were used for competition (where) going back 50 years ? I asked Julia maybe 15 years ago but she didn't have time to follow up on it. She mentioned that she had some in abc so if they exist I would most appreciate it Dave Singleton To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] [Re: Holy/Holey Halfpenny]
X-Mozilla-Keys: Message-ID: <172-4b79822c.6020...@pt.lu> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:19:40 +0100 From: Dave S User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Seattle Subject: Re: [NSP] Holy/Holey Halfpenny References: <215-97e9609c1002150545n248a3047s88ddf5b872d1...@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <215-97e9609c1002150545n248a3047s88ddf5b872d1...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Matt mirriam-websters online Main Entry: *hol·ey* Pronunciation: \ËhÅ-lÄ\ Function: /adjective/ Date: 13th century *:* having holes Matt Seattle wrote: >I'm currently putting what I hope are the finishing touches to the new >edition of Bewick's Pipe Tunes. I've reverted to Robert's "Holy >Halfpenny" title , corroborated by another early local source, rather >than the later "Holey", and written "The significance of either >interpretation is unclear". Is it? Does anyone actually KNOW, rather >than have an interesting theory? > >Cheers > >Matt > >-- > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2687 - Release Date: 02/14/10 > 08:35:00 > > --
[NSP] Re: Pitch and kipper boxes
Sorry missed me B didn I Dave S wrote: Hi, arry mentioned "between the nut and the bridge" OK but if the nut gets tight does the pitch go up or down? ciao Dave To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2679 - Release Date: 02/10/10 08:40:00
[NSP] Pitch and kipper boxes
Hi, arry mentioned "between the nut and the bridge" OK but if the nut gets tight does the pitch go up or down? ciao Dave To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Mr. Bewick, Rats and Inverted Bags
Mr Bewick must have just visited Barrow-in -Fairness, where the wind blows hard enough to turn dogs inside out, so they look like surgical gloves ( according to Mr Mike Harding) Francis Wood wrote: Mr Bewick, the ingenious wood-engraver, has put on record a fact regarding rats nearly as mystical as any of the above. He alleges that ' the skins of such of them as have been devoured in their holes [for they are cannibals to a sad extent] have frequently been found curiously turned inside out, every part of them being completely inverted, even to the ends of the toes.' (from 'The Book of Days, A Miscellany of Popular Antiquities in Connection with the Calendar, Edited by R. Chambers, Parts 10,12. Philadelphia. jJ.B. Lippencott & Co.') See . . . it's so easy that even rats can do it! I have no idea why the rats practised this skill. Perhaps a consequence of their unfortunate fascination with piping, as the sad events in Hamelin will demonstrate. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2649 - Release Date: 01/27/10 14:08:00
[NSP] Re: bag shape
Hi Richard, Other slight annoyances occuring when messing with bags/neck is "resonance" or a change in the resistance to airflow. Some bag/neck shapes give rise to top A and top B sounding flat at which point the unsuspecting will start chopping or scraping reeds - BEWARE Dave Singleton Richard York wrote: I'd welcome comments/advice on nsp bag shape, please. There's the conventional shape, and now I learn there's the tear-drop shape. I've been playing other (non Scottish) bagpipes for quite a long time, with various shaped bags, from medieval/renaissance large tear drop, held more in front of the body, to nsp-like but bigger on Jon Swayne D border pipes, and have got used to & comfortable with them. I'm still finding my way on nsp's... I suspect this is a life-long state... but find that after some 10 or so minutes of playing I'm getting a restricted left hand movement, as my arm's getting pressure from the bulge of the bag against my forearm where it restricts the blood flow or something; this is a problem I don't get with my other sets. I've tried varying my arm position/bag position/drone angle/position of jaw/general earth energy and leyline alignment etc, but haven't yet cracked the problem. It seems logical to expect that the tear-drop shape, with most of the bag further back under the arm, is going to leave my forearm more relaxed and less pressured. But until you've tried anything you don't know, and I'd like to hear from anyone who has, please, either positive or negative experience of this shape. With thanks, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.730 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2646 - Release Date: 01/26/10 08:46:00
[NSP] Re: the Guardian today....
Hi Anita, not being a Grauniad reader I have to guess the BAE is BEE Arable Entrepreneurs or some such biz Dave Singleton Anita Evans wrote: We're in trouble - according to a letter in the Guardian newspaper, BAE is 'racing to capture the domestic UK drones market' Anita No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.730 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2646 - Release Date: 01/26/10 08:46:00 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Not Piping
Hi Anthony, Windz 7 does not yet have sufficient drivers or debugging to be fully stable, and it will take a while for the third parties to write the low level drivers, when and if they get access to the system hooks. I suggest you boot from a win xp non-install (boot sys cd) cd or linux non-install cd and load the software you need via usb into a memory diskyou can delete it all by switching off. Or maybe get all portable software on USB to do your work. Lots of luck with ver 7 or just have patience cheers Dave Anthony Robb wrote: Both ide and sata harddrives are compatable. Therefore you may have a problem without a second internal harddrive. Adrian Thanks for that Adrian. I've also been told that fire-wire cards other than Texas instrument ones can be a problem. I think I might put the laptop idea on hold for a month or two!! Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.730 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2634 - Release Date: 01/20/10 10:12:00
[NSP] Re: What to call youself
Hi Ernie, Seasons greetings; how about Smallpiper -- Mystery / Mysterious smallpiper ciao Dave S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: musette
Hello Colin, You are spot on :-) but it was the "wedding night" finale --- where things were a little in tune, a little frenetic, then syncope then built to a crescendo and finally resolved into gentle snores -- great fun and well played I thought! Dave S rosspi...@aol.com wrote: Hi Phlip, The recital was fine and I think the tuning that Francis was complaing about was due to the last pieces being played in the tonic minor where the tuning can go off unless mean tuning has been attempted on the chanter. The final groans were possibly meant to be a humorous indication of the piper collapsing after drinking too much at the wedding. Colin R -Original Message- From: Philip Gruar To: Francis Wood CC: Dartmouth NPS Sent: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:53 Subject: [NSP] Re: musette Hi Francis The musette seems fairly out of tune. By 5.45 the pitch is rapidly losing >altitude, finally crashing at 6.30. I didn't listen that far! As I said, all those Hotteterre pieces tend to sound the same, and yes, "hard driven" is just the phrase for it - which is another reason I didn't stick it out all the way to 5.45, let alone 6.30. A more delicate touch on musette and harpsichord, plus a bass viol to balance the bass line and it would have been so much better. I listened to a couple of clips of the Loibner recording and have to say I prefer the Palladians for sheer verve and fun. Loibner and co. sound very refined which although probably what the original players might have aimed for, does lose a lot of the rustic joie-de-vivre. Without that, one might as well have a "straight" baroque rendering of the original Vivaldi - or even a non-straight rendering, as so brilliantly done by Red Priest. Philip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.102/2556 - Release Date: 12/10/09 08:36:00
[NSP] Re: Message to Chris Birch and Dave S
Yup -- that's the one beat me to it -- I was still looking for Jul's Thanks Dave S Dru Brooke-Taylor wrote: Is the tune on these links it? http://lb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feierwon or http://lb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:De_Feierwon.png It's completely unfamiliar to me. Dru On 25 Nov 2009, at 14:28, neil smith wrote: Does either of you (or indeed anyone else) have the dots to De Feierwon? I know it was published years ago in Jul Christophory(?)'s book Mir schwatze Letzeburgesch but I've long since lost it. It occurs to me it would make a grand tune for a piping ensemble. Cheers, Neil __ Add other email accounts to Hotmail in 3 easy steps. [1]Find out how. -- References 1. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/186394593/direct/01/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.82/2525 - Release Date: 11/25/09 08:31:00
[NSP] Overlooked
Hi Anthony, I think John encapsulated it very well --- and further, we are all overlooking/forgetting the vocal score all the dance band musicians, not forgetting yourself, use; the vocal score being an ear roasting by one of the guys saying " we don't play THAT.. we play it like this ." or am I mistaken in thinking that all the top musicians play(ed) with like minded/musicked people never corrected vocally a tune that did not run to their ideas. mFG Dave S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: schei greiss
Hi Anthony, This gives a perfect example, the letters you know but not in the order that I set them. You attempted a joke that some may find amusing, probably because your imagination could not crack the code. Perhaps this will soften your hardline stance on written things, you would have to be in Luxembourg for a couple of years to get to grips with its' language, but if you had a set of written crib cards it would be possible for you to start on the language from the comfort of your home. Now, to address your standpoint on dots, we need audio clues to help us try to imitate the sounds and eventually they stick in the audio soundbank. I do so agree, but not to the extent that you propose. Modern (new research) concert instrumentalists, starting as children now learn their instrument by ear for the first few years, when they have learnt the instrument and some of its' possibilities, they are introduced to the dots and in so doing create a happy medium and a happy player. In recent mails Tom Clough was reported to have said that Thomas Todd forbade him playing the melodyof the Barrington, he had first to learn the exercises (Julia; are there any random exercises kicking about?) -- some of us need the dots to see the exercises as we can't get to learn from an expert, there are not enough to go round. You know from your experience that it takes a lot of time to imprint a melody into the audiobank(brain). The older you get the longer it can take, some are lucky in that they already have enough to go on and merely refresh old memories, I envy their good fortune. We need the dots as memory helpers, us mortals wot don't concert or barn dance etc. We know we are mortals, so don't knock what you don't have the background to comprehend, you had it all around you all your life, us out here ain't got it and probably won't get it. I will try to be like the Philharmonic, they know their instrument, they have practiced, and they use their music for clues and memory assists, but they all play the conductors interpretation of the piece, emotion, speed, warts and all. I am still trying to learn about my pipes but for me it is a slow, fascinating process I hope will never end. I love them --- and without NSP dots I would be playing Boismortier, Corrette, Lullay, Rameau, Zweitackters, alouette, Himmelsmaerch, Mozart, etc etc Tra 4 now ( confirmed dots supporter) Dave S ( Anthony Robb wrote: Dave I did have one but the wheels fell off. Anthony --- On *Mon, 2/11/09, Dave S //* wrote: From: Dave S Subject: [NSP] schei greiss To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Monday, 2 November, 2009, 7:23 PM Wunnerbar eppes vun déi schéi sprooch vun hei ze léiesen kriit's d'och schéi greiss vun Useldéng Dave S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html <http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html> No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.45/2476 - Release Date: 11/02/09 07:51:00
[NSP] schei greiss
Wunnerbar eppes vun déi schéi sprooch vun hei ze léiesen kriit's d'och schéi greiss vun Useldéng Dave S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: The Power of Positive Thinking
Hi Francis, isn't that todays' paradox -- a working party -- starts ok but swiftly declines in effectiveness until as the percentage get higher things degenerate into rest, monotone and finally a theoretical silence -- with the odd ( generally very odd ) blowout good one --- Dave Francis Wood wrote: Changing the course of language is a slow and uncertain path. Before anyone suggests that a working party be set up to make recommendations, let me say immediately that I do not think this would be a good idea. With apologies, Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.422 / Virus Database: 270.14.23/2447 - Release Date: 10/20/09 03:55:00
[NSP] Re: musical form
Responsorial ? rosspi...@aol.com wrote: Has anyone got the name of the musical form of the question and answer type that is the basis for sea shanties and our local song 'Dolly Ah' and more interestingly the two pipe tunes 'Lang Stayed Away' and 'Highland Laddie'(first two parts) in Peacock's Tunes. This is also the same as the 'waulking songs' from the Hebrides which can lead to great extensions of originality in the A and C parts of the A B C D form. Sounds as though it is an old pre industrial revolution form maybe linked to dance in some way. Colin R To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.112/2393 - Release Date: 09/24/09 18:00:00
[NSP] Re: Piping
Thanks Tony, Nice -- but watch out for the young ladies left wrist -- it's a prime candidate for RSI maybe a new fatter bag ??? regards Dave Anthony Robb wrote: Here's a bit choyt for the bairns. [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOg93tdh0Ms Anthony -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOg93tdh0Ms To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.82/2351 - Release Date: 09/07/09 06:40:00
[NSP] [Re: Tune title spelling]
X-Mozilla-Keys: Message-ID: <163-4a8b0cfc.1040...@pt.lu> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:20:12 +0200 From: Dave S User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (Windows/20090605) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: julia@nspipes.co.uk, nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: [NSP] Tune title spelling References: <211-4a8b18e6.9698.28fc...@julia.say.nspipes.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <211-4a8b18e6.9698.28fc...@julia.say.nspipes.co.uk> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="010300060808050307080104" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --010300060808050307080104 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Julia, here's one --- Tune Req: Ganglat Fran Mockfjard <http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid309&messages> Gärdebylåten appears in this book on the same page as another popular Swedish Tune Äppelbolåten (/Appelbolaten/). I also have Nick Barber's "English Choice" *.* Julia Say wrote: > Can anyone tell me where the letters with dots over and suchlike > should go in the tune title "APPELBOLATEN" (it's Swedish). > > I have it handwritten, twice and differently, from various sources, > and I don't trust either rendition. > > Thanks > Julia > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/18/09 > 06:03:00 > > --010300060808050307080104 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Julia, here's one --- http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid309&messages" class="l" onmousedown="return clk(this.href,'','','res','5','')">Tune Req: Ganglat Fran Mockfjard Gärdebylåten appears in this book on the same page as another popular Swedish Tune Äppelbolåten (Appelbolaten). I also have Nick Barber's "English Choice" . Julia Say wrote: Can anyone tell me where the letters with dots over and suchlike should go in the tune title "APPELBOLATEN" (it's Swedish). I have it handwritten, twice and differently, from various sources, and I don't trust either rendition. Thanks Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html";>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com";>www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/18/09 06:03:00 --010300060808050307080104-- --
[NSP] Re: Tune title spelling
Hi Julia, here's one --- [1]Tune Req: Ganglat Fran Mockfjard Gaerdebylaaten appears in this book on the same page as another popular Swedish Tune Aeppelbolaaten (Appelbolaten). I also have Nick Barber's "English Choice" . Julia Say wrote: Can anyone tell me where the letters with dots over and suchlike should go in the tune title "APPELBOLATEN" (it's Swedish). I have it handwritten, twice and differently, from various sources, and I don't trust either rendition. Thanks Julia To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - [3]www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/18/09 06:03 :00 -- References 1. http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=11309&messages=18 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. http://www.avg.com/
[NSP] Re: Whos list is this? Re: Northumbria Pipe Course
Hi Wayne, How are you doing ? Still playing lute ? and decrypting early music -- Thanks for the work and good wishes for everything -- Dave wayne cripps wrote: Hi Folks - Thanks to Richard for reminding people that this list, the "dartmouth" list, is not affiliated with the Northumbrian Pipers' Society in any way. It is intended for discussions of Northumbrian smallpipes, and not other bagpipes. In the twelve years that it has been running I have never seen an advertisement for either a course or an instrument that I have found objectionable. Richard is one of the few people posting to this list whom I have actually met. I have never been to Newcastle, and the pipers that I have met personally are not part of this mail list. So it is sometimes frustrating dealing with list members who may be excellent musicians but are poor "net citizens" who are carrying "in" jokes and arguments to this list. By the way, although this mail list is hosted on Dartmouth College networks and equipment, it is not in any way affiliated with the College. Wayne Begin forwarded message: From: "Richard Shuttleworth" Date: August 13, 2009 4:51:59 PM EDT To: , , "colin" Cc: Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available Dear Colin Hill, The NSP dartmouth list has nothing to do with the Northumbrian Pipers' Society other than the fact that many Society members post to this list. It is run out of Dartmouth College by a very patient and long-suffering chap called Wayne. Anyone can join the list and post any piping relevant topic that they feel would be of interest to other list members. Richard Colin (Hill) wrote: Can someone please enlighten me on something as I am obviously too old and doddering to understand. Is this particular list an "open" list for matters pertaining to piping in general or only as it concerns the Society? For the life of me, I can't see the problem with self-advertising provided that it is to do with piping. Presumably, If I had heard of a piping course and then written a post "hey pipers, there's a course being held at...". That would be piping news surely and quite acceptable? Please explain the difference to me between a course held by the Society and one held by an individual as far as this (open) list is concerned (if it is open). Many people on this list are not members of the Society (hence the opening of the "dirty laundry" alternative list). Please inform us as to whether this list is to discuss piping in all it's aspects or only those aspects that the Society have a hand in. I think we need this clarification. If it is, indeed, NOT an open list but one being run for and on behalf of the Society, I think that needs pointing out notwithstanding the fact that the Society "runs" it and benefits from it (by spreading the word that it exists). If it IS a Society bases list only, maybe a change of name should be considered. Again, if it's an open list, maybe we shouldn't have details of the Society's contributions either (to make it fair). You can't have it both ways. An open list or a NPS list? That would, I think, help many of us to understand what is acceptable and what is not. If it IS a specific NPS list, maybe it should be restricted to members. Maybe a truly open list (such as the English Bagpipes list on Yahoo) should be started as an alternative to those who wish to discuss ALL aspects of piping and where the news of a course on piping would be accepted as news regardless of who was running it? Colin Hill (Life Member of NPS since around 1972/3) - Original Message - From: To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 4:53 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available No problem as you are doing it as a group activity and there is no conflict with the NPS who I am sure welcomes it. CR -Original Message- From: Neil Tavernor To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:09 Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available And if (nsp dartmouth) is only for material sanctioned by the NPS, why did we need (NPS discussion). And can I advertise the Manchester group Pipers' day (3rd October) run and risk taken by individuals (no financial support from the NPS) on the (NPS discusion) list. Well I'm going to anyway. Neil - Original Message - From: "Francis Wood" To: "Dartmouth NPS" Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:56 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places available Oh, for goodness' sake! Francis On 12 Aug 2009, at 12:41, rosspi...@aol.com wrote: I wonder if this advert for a privately run course is allowed on this > list. This is a course that is not run by the NPS but for the benefit of > the person who is running it who although taking the risk and time to > organise it is also taking any profit that may arise. CR -Original Message- From: suzefisher @
[NSP] list stuff
yup well said, both Colin and Philip It does seem that the tension, verve and perspicacity have dwindled somewhat, what we need is someone to put a bit of dino in the - list again ds Philip Gruar wrote: Well said "colin" (Hill, of course) I have been reading this list (both lists) over the past month with a growing sense of detatchment and loss of interest. I wonder if I can really be bothered to open any new message, and very likely read yet more griping and point-scoring, or whether just to hit the delete button, and send NPS and NSP alike to join all the other spam. We have had the endless "what is proper piping?" debate yet again (have the Taliban got an internet discussion list about true Islam, I wonder? If so it must be very similar), continuing point-scoring about the presidency, about the society "rules" or lack of them, pipe-makers and pipe-making books and what the society has/hasn't/should/shouldn't have done about them, and now this latest extraordinary outburst. The suggested distinction between NPS discussion and NSP (Dartmouth) list isn't really being observed, often because the subject matter applies to both. Personally, I don't bother to look closely at the acronym to see what list a posting is meant for, I still read them all - and I'm sure most of us who have subscribed to both do the same. I used to follow the discussions with interest, and often contribute to them, but the level of debate recently (with a few honourable exceptions) has sunk so low I'm tempted to unsubscribe from both lists. Letting my Society subsciption lapse sometimes seems like a good idea too. Please can we have a Summer recess, or a moratorium or something, and all come back refreshed and nicer people, ready to discuss piping and its music tolerantly and positively? Can we also drop the (failed?) experiment of the NPS discussion list. Some of us ordinary members really don't care any more about the Society's internal battles. Just fight it out among yourselves and let us know the result by old-fashioned snail-mail newsletter when all the blood has been cleaned up. Philip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Transposing etc
Hi John, How's about C# .net and Dflat (Dr Dobb's Callisthenics & Orthodontics) the former for the pro's and the latter for the con's ... Of course the pro's KNOW exactly what we must do, how we should do it and all the other arguements are mere piffle and squeak --- ciao Dave gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: Is there any software available which will input interminable arguments about the Pipers' Society rulebook, and output intelligent discussion about the instrument and its music? John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.39/2275 - Release Date: 08/01/09 09:38:00
[NSP] Re: Peacock
Hi Ross, Thanks very much for the thought !! very useful Dave Singleton Ross Anderson wrote: I've scanned Peacock and put it online at http://www.piob.info. I worked from Francis Wood's copy, for the loan of which I'm very grateful. I'm sure Google Books would have got round to it eventually and I hope that the Society will eventually reprint it in the traditional size so it'll fit conveniently in my pipe case. But here at least is a version to be going on with. Enjoy! Ross Anderson To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.93/2206 - Release Date: 06/27/09 17:55:00
[NSP] Re: re notes v. ear
Richard Evans wrote: Philip Gruar wrote: I'm sure everybody with a so-called "classical" music training here (and jazz or whatever) - i.e. anyone for whom the purely mechanical act of reading written music is completely second nature, does the reading without consciously thinking about doing it. This is the basis of my problem of course- no formal musical training whatsoever! Too late now methinks. Cheers Richard Hi -- one or two cents worth, No one has so far mention the fact that classical musicians usually have an ally waving a stick and hands giving them the colour, speeds and breathing life into the piece they are playing -- namely his interpretation of what the COMPOSER wished to convey from the dots, with all its' written dynamics - sadly unavailable on most bagpipes - so stop trying to put down one side or the other, we have, do and will continue to have two separate methodologies-- they both have a valid raison d'etre both supply a much needed service and occasionally one or the other crosses over and makes a splash Vive la difference vive la musique Dave S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Peacock’s Tunes Facsimile
I,m sure it's online somewhere Francis, but my question is who actually learnt these tunes from the tradition --- ie from someone who learnt them from someone whose knew someone who learnt from Peacock ? do we have anyone -- if so could they please set up a master class Dave S (Tongue In Cheek) Francis Wood wrote: I too have a copy of the Peacocks Tunes Facsimile, 'falling apart but treasured as Matt has said, after nearly 30 years of use. Second-hand copies of this are hard to find and although the later NPS edition in standard format is extremely useful, the facsimile has its own particular interest. Perhaps the NPS might consider re-issuing this Old Testament of piping one day. Francis -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.61/2167 - Release Date: 06/10/09 05:52:00
[NSP] Re: this list is safer now
Is it really this dead after the what me mail ? or has a lurgy got settled Dave S Wayne Cripps wrote: I should also add that the NSP mail list can no longer transmit computer viruses. Wayne To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.37/2130 - Release Date: 05/23/09 07:00:00
[NSP] Re: Alternative/extra NPS discussion list
That's a bugger, now us out here won't get to see them over there doin it to the rest over wherever TIC Dave Julia Say wrote: On 29 May 2009, Francis Wood wrote: Some further clarification would be useful. As I read the message, the list is to discuss NPS matters, i.e. issues pertaining specifically to the Society (NPS) rather than Northumbrian piping items (NSP). The new discussion list has been set up specifically to discuss society (NPS) matters, and reduce the annoyance to those who do not wish to be involved. General matters of piping interest may well also occur in the course of discussion, but we are not trying to supplant this long established dartmouth list. Rather it is an addition. It is open to all NPS members whether they are on this list or not, so if you have friends who might be interested, feel free to pass on the instructions. Info on how to subscribe will appear in the next society newsletter as well. The new discussion list is a stopgap measure, pending Tim, I and others getting our heads round other faster forms of communication with members, and the establishment of a bulletin board type scenario where members can pick & choose which threads they read. Hope this helps JUlia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.44/2140 - Release Date: 05/28/09 18:09:00
[NSP] Re: Style/dots
Hi Anthony, let me quote a passage showing that perhaps todays tradition started from the dots and yes I agree "Keep your ears open" ciao Dave A LETTER TO HIS GRACE THE DUKE OF NORTHUMBERLAND ON THE ANCIENT NORTHUMBRIAN MUSIC, ITS COLLECTION AND PRESERVATION. BY THOMAS DOUBLEDAY. *' Nor rough nor barren are the windings ways Of hoar Antiquity, but strewn with flow'rs." Thomas Warton. LONDON : NEWCASTLE-ON-TYNE : ANDREW REID, 40, PILGRIM-STREET. 1862. Such are the relative positions of the old, natural, and the modem, mathematical music. It seems clear that this posi- tion can never be altered. To expect a simple expressive melody to be appreciated, or even listened to, amidst the harmonious din of contending orchestras and oratorios, that count performers by himdreds, would be to expect a miracle. The Ancient Music, then, must remain in those "harbours of refuge" amongst the mountains of Northumberland, Scotland, Ireland, Beam, Corsica, Sicily, the Tyrol, Calabria, and Spain, to which it has been driven ; until amidst the muta- tions of society it may, probably, at length, finally disappear and be lost to the world, unless noted down, collected, and put on record. Such a fate I have long anticipated for the Ancient Music of Northumberland, which, being less in volume, much sim- pler, and only an offshoot of the music of Caledonia, may be expected soonest to perish. When, therefore, I learned, as I did some months since, that this subject had attracted the attention of the learned Society of Antiquaries of the town of Newcastle and its vicinity, my gratification was as great and sincere as it was unexpected. I had, in years gone past, sometimes dreamed of venturing upon the undertaking of collecting it single-handed. It was but a dream. A brief con- sideration was amply enough to convince me that to atchieve success in such a quest an expenditure of time and money must be involved far beyond that which any individual in a private station could, for such an object, be expected to incur. When, therefore, I became acquainted with the fact that the Society ol Antiquaries had taken the first step, by the appointment of a sub-committee, for the purpose of taking such measures for the collection and preservation of those interesting musical rehcs as might seem to be most efficient, To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: F.a.o. Francis & others
I sincerely hope this is not meant to have the xenophobic overtones that can be read between the lines --- there are many avid fans of NSP who have no chance of getting to listen to the present interpretation of the tradition -- they only have cd ,mp3, etc surely this is not tradition. Jack Armstrong appeared to have tuned out and away from the tradition, and revealed a surprisingly modish way of playing, but unfortuneatly, unless the dead pipers can supply us with more of this it is lost to the tradition --- the dots allow the tradition to be recovered when insular players die off without training a disciple - flame on Dave Singleton Anthony Robb wrote: Hello Francis I am well aware of Colin's abrasive nature and have disagreed with him over details of the repertoire and other issues, but he is a rare beast in that he understands that we are dealing with a fundamentally oral tradition here. A tradition that needs to be learnt through 90% listening and 10% playing. If the dots are used they need to be informed by true insight into the nuances displayed within the spectrum of traditional players. It seems that this approach is not fully appreciated by all in authority in our Society and that worries quite a few of us. As aye Anthony --- On Tue, 26/5/09, Francis Wood wrote: From: Francis Wood Subject: Re: [NSP] F.a.o. Francis & others To: "Anthony Robb" Cc: "Dartmouth NPS" Date: Tuesday, 26 May, 2009, 7:54 PM On 26 May 2009, at 16:53, Anthony Robb wrote: > Mmmma| rather harsh Francis. Hello Anthony, I'm not sure I've really tried 'harsh' . . . 'Robust' might do quite well. I'd add 'fair'. We'll probably not agree on that one. Francis P. S. I'll leave it to anyone else to respond point by point to Anthony's mail if they have a mind to do so. I'd advise adherence to known facts, awareness that the issue is not only painful but complex, some regard for the integrity of those people who have already posted thoughtfully and carefully on this subject and above all, due consideration for the welfare of the person this is really all about. May I also reiterate my confidence in the NPS Committee and their decision. I base this on my knowledge of the people serving on the Committee and my admiration of their integrity and administrative abilities. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00
[NSP] Re: What oil to use?
Francis -- how about neck oil for the many and gunpowder lapsong for the few Dave Francis Wood wrote: Can anybody suggest a suitable oil to pour on these troubled waters? Ideally, it should be capable of spreading evenly and fairly as well as making the tone of everything seem much brighter. Should lubricate roughened areas. Capable of curing squeaks as well as growls, howls and other distressing noises. Must be totally non-imflammable. Non-oxidising would be nice too. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.39/2134 - Release Date: 05/25/09 18:14:00
[NSP] no warranty
oops guarranttee or so To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Wheels, use of re-inventing, one
Placing myself as a not so good player ( I just don't practise often enough), I like to listen to most of the varieties that we now have. Some of these sources will dry up, others will fluff and die, a couple may dig in and be around for a long while. Thus we have the spice of "life" but there are maybe some unpalatable 'erbs in amongst them. Personally I reckon that the "tradition" is now in a reasonable state of health, it's into meditation, but it will not be able to cure its' own future. Nor should it try to do so IMHO. With this instrument, as many believe and have said perhaps vehemently, perhaps contentedly, there are certain constraints to be considered. In considering them, be magnanimous, win people over, don't alienate them, thus one can gauranttee the survival of this superb little dinosaur. How about a T shirt -- "Play a Dinosaur -- make history" Dave Singleton PS keys were on wind instruments around Henry VIII's time and before -- only basic, but the technique was known, To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: malcom's final solution
Barry, There used to be a site run by Gerit Raith having plans for a cornemuse in F (alto kortholt) but I can't seem to track it down -- if you are interested in this windcap instrument I may be a ble to dig out the plans from an archive I have somewhere -- let me know if you would like me to search for them -- Ciao Dave S Barry Say wrote: I am writing a reply to Malcolm's message, but in the meantime, I have a related question which I hope that readers of this list can help with. The Northumbrian Smallpipes are unusual in that they have a very small bore compared to other instruments. Also, the tone holes are often the same size as the bore. Is anyone aware of any other wind instruments contemporary or historical which have a bore comparable with the smallpipes or tone holes about the size of the bore? Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.8/1985 - Release Date: 03/05/09 07:54:00
[NSP] Re: malcom's final solution
Hi all, AFAIK modifying the cone of the staple (and to a lesser extent the angle of the reed blades) WILL change the position of the notes on the top half more than the bottom half of the chanter, so go figure - new staple conicity -- new hole positions --- DON'T EVER FORGET THE VALUE OF A GOOD REED --- coupled with a good ear !! have fun Dave S Gibbons, John wrote: The survey may not tell Malcolm as much as he hopes. As well as 'where are the holes?' we also need to know 'is the note sharp or flat?'. It's not just size that matters - internal shape does too, as if a hole is significantly undercut, it will affect the pitch. And the bore of the chanter, the nature of the plug in the end. And have the pipes been altered by anyone since the maker sold them? And customers, if there's a maker currently producing pipes with difficult or out of tune hole spacings, need to know who it is. John -Original Message- From: nsp-request+j.gibbons=ic.ac...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:nsp-request+j.gibbons=ic.ac...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of rosspi...@aol.com Sent: 06 March 2009 10:42 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] malcom's final solution I have published in my Technical Advisors report in the forthcoming Newsletter a list of hole positions with diameters as the result of my own research into the tuning of chanters that is the result of forty years pipemaking and which is about 90% right. I think that Malcom should name the makers he is accusing of changing the hole positions, and if he thinks he can come up with a Unversal Theory of chanter making then he should think of helping Stephen Hawkin with his problem with arriving at a final theory. Learning to spell might be a start. CR -Original Message- From: malcolm.sargea...@ntlworld.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 9:59 Subject: [NSP] Re: Obit for JIm Bryan Dear pipers; As a learner not just to pipe making but all things pipes I have come accross a phenomenon perculier to Northumbrian Smallpipes in particular. After asking around all and sundry to the point of being a "pest" about tone hole positions I have arrived, after six years of research to this conclusion. There are pipe makers that even after "donkeys years" of making pipes change the tone hole positions to suit the reed being used at the time for whatever reason. I have "umpteen" different tone hole positions from makers and developers like Clough to Reid and many recent makers and all of them are different regardless of pitch and bore. Prevelent makers changing these positions as much as three times in a two year period. As a result I am asking everyone willing to take part in my survey to measure your Northumbrian Smallpipes tone hole positions and send them to me so that the results can be published here when completed. It is not my intention to embarrass anyone and the maker can be kept confidential if you wish, although I would rather know the maker too but rather to aid the development of our instrument if possible for future generations in attempting to consolidate the tone hole positions. As far as I know, this kind of thing has not been done for a very long time and since then, there has been thousands of pipes made worldwide. This of course will give more data to work with and a better average to arrive at any sensible sort of conclusion. Anyone willing to help not just me but yourselves in the long run will be required to measure the following; Give length and bore if possible, pitch, maker, aproximate year made, material (timber if known) and the tone holes ,measured from the very top of the chanter to the centre of the hole. Lastly but equaly important is the size of each tone hole as some may be as much as 1/2" elongated. Measurements to be as careful as possible and in metric. (if you do not have metric or can not use it then of course imperial) Thank you Malcolm Sargeant. -- Julia.Say wrote : Hi, list Apparently there was an obit. for Jim Bryan in Weds. Daily Telegraph. It hasn't appeared on their website - although others from the same day have. Does anyone read this paper, and could supply a copy for the NPS scrapbook? Thanks JUlia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- This message was sent on behalf of malcolm.sargea...@ntlworld.com at openSubscriber.com http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu/11606352.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.8/1985 - Release Date: 03/05/09 07:54:00
[NSP] Images of reverse or not
I have the idea that if one looks at the buttons on coats and waistcoats ( if present) one can solve the problem of whether the image is true or not. Ladies have buttons on the left and Gents on the right. good spotting Dave Singleton To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Reel of t
Hi all, the song whose last line was "the reel of tullochgorum" was writ by non-other than the Rev John Skinner way back in "the good ol'days - 1721-1807. There may just be a tie in to smallpipes because the first line is Come gie's a sang Montgomery cried - ie the Montgomery set --- have fun Dave Singleton To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html