[NSP] Re: small coals, and the peacock following the hen

[Dave S]

Hi Matt,

Could be, though I won't use facebook for the sake of my  personal 
information ( 35years computing experience) , it may be just summer hols 
and many families are away 


regards

Dave

On 8/15/2012 6:17 PM, Matt Seattle wrote:

And where has everybody gone? There's little activity on the NPS
bulletin board and Dartmouth was asleep till Derek's post. Is it all
happening on fyecebeuk now? --


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[NSP] Re: March 2012 TOTM: "Adam a Bell" selected by Julia Say

[Dave S]

John is quite right to postulate that the fingering WD would have used 
would not be that of today ---  I don't think the old GHB used two roof 
tiles and a bit of string for a reed in his time !
There is far too much evidence pointing  to the the idea of an 8ve and 
two or three extras up top --


Which, IMHO, brings us back round to reeds,staples and the possibilities 
of tuning the reed-staple pair to the chanter -- and yes I meant it to 
be that way round --- sadly this technique seems to be a victim of 
modern day haste -- this plus the technique known as "shading". If one 
asks a player of baroque oboe how many different ways of playing most of 
the notes on the top hand and your answer will probably be a smile !
Sometimes with shading and fingering one can lift a note or lower it 
significantly enough to accord or dischord with drones or another 
instrument --

On 3/1/2012 1:06 AM, John Dally wrote:

 From the playing the tunes on my various sorts of pipes, it seems clear
that Dixon did play an instrument with a flattened 7th.  But in my
experience the flat 7th is sharper on Highland pipes than on SSP or
most BP.  I don't think his fingering was anything like modern Highland
piping fingering though.  And, personally, I like Dixon's tunes on the
NSP and SSP best.  That's not a judgement or historical argument, just
a matter of personal taste.

On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 3:52 PM, Gibbons, John
<[1]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk>  wrote:

  There is also the question of what did Dixon intend by his blank key
  signature?
  Did it mean 'this tune is in Gmix/Cmajor or Adorian'?
  Or did it mean, as with Highland pipe music,
  'I am not bothering to say what the actual key signature is, as you
  know already'?
  John
  
  From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on
  behalf of Matt Seattle [[4]theborderpi...@googlemail.com]
  Sent: 29 February 2012 23:01
  To: Dartmouth NPS
  Subject: [NSP] Re: March 2012 TOTM: "Adam a Bell" selected by Julia
  Say
On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 10:33 PM, John
Dally<[1][5]dir...@gmail.com>  wrote:
Dixon's tunes as transcribed in THE MASTER PIPER are in A
  mixolydian
and the NSpiper has to take into account that there is more
  involved
than simply transposing to G major, and in the case of some of the
tunes he/she might just as well play them as written in THE MASTER
PIPER.
It's an interesting viewpoint, John. There is the precedent of
  Billy
Pigg's 'Skye Crofters' played in nominal A on NSP. In what key do
  you
play 'Athol Highlanders' on NSP?
I have to say, it's not a problem for me. I don't play NSP. I have
enough other problems.
--
  References
1. mailto:[6]dir...@gmail.com
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

References

1. mailto:j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk
2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
4. mailto:theborderpi...@googlemail.com
5. mailto:dir...@gmail.com
6. mailto:dir...@gmail.com
7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html



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[NSP] Re: March 2012 TOTM: "Adam a Bell" selected by Julia Say

[Dave S]

Reading in F and playing in G is also very worthwhile -- all the 
renaissance and boaroque dance music ---


Dave

On 2/29/2012 1:39 PM, Gibbons, John wrote:

Reading in A and playing in G is also a skill worth learning!
It opens up an awful lot of the Scottish repertoire.

John

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Matt Seattle
Sent: 29 February 2012 10:24
To: Dartmouth NPS
Subject: [NSP] Re: March 2012 TOTM: "Adam a Bell" selected by Julia Say

If anyone wants the dots of the Dixon version, they're in 'The Master
Piper', available from NPS. If they need to transcribe it into G before
playing it that will be a useful exercise.
See the credit for the photo of the Edinburgh pub sign 'Jingling
Geordie' which appears with the tune following Adam A Bell in the
latest edition. A surprise to me, and a nice touch. --


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[NSP] Re: TOTM selection process: new proposal

[Dave S]

Hi John,

That sounds like a great proposal, brilliant learning possibilities and 
history background too


Super

Dave S

On 12/14/2011 9:40 AM, John Dally wrote:

How would the group feel if we changed the present tune/topic/theme
selection process?  There must be better ways to make the choice so
that more pipers will want to participate and, equally important,
there will be more useful discussion about the selection.  Pete
Stewart has been very helpful in the selection process so far, and I
hope we will continue to work in tandem with the LBPS.

Perhaps the authorities and masters among us would make the selection,
telling us why they selected it and some of the background to the
selection.  Each month a new person would make his/her selection.

I found Richard Evans comments on my Overseas entries extremely
helpful.  Likewise, perhaps the "Expert of the Month" would offer
helpful and encouraging comments on the performances.

What do you think?



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[NSP] Re: ebay Northumbrian bagpipe (not)

[Dave S]

Hi all,
It has the look of a dudy/hummel from the other side of Poland, but for 
certain I wouldn't mind the bellows to help with our fire, it looks like 
a dual action type. We ought to ask Pavel Cip (sorry for any spelling 
errors in his name)


Dave

On 12/7/2011 11:35 AM, Gibbons, John wrote:

A puzzle - are there any ethnoorganologists out there who can identify the 
thing?

John

From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of John 
Dally [dir...@gmail.com]
Sent: 06 December 2011 22:29
To: NSP group
Subject: [NSP] ebay Northumbrian bagpipe (not)

Some sort of euro-pipe, very expensive for what it is, but not what
the seller claims it is: ebay item #170741342181.



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[NSP] Re: Kathryn Tickell

[Dave S]

Thanks for the link -- time in 1h12'ish to 1h33 on the one I played

Dave S

On 11/18/2011 11:44 AM, Di Jevons wrote:

A fiddler friend of mine has sent me a BBC iplayer link to a Radio
Scotland programme Travelling Folk featuring Chris Stout from Fiddlers
Bid.



Also on the same programme is Kathryn Tickell.  Kathryn is on from
about 8 minutes for about half an hour.



Here is the link for anyone who's interested



[1]http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0175jnm#segments

--

References

1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0175jnm#segments


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[NSP] Re: Alice Burn & Emily Hoile

[Dave S]

I agree, and the playing great, I hope it continues to reach new heights 
and directions for NSP. As was said, it is a chamber instrument ---


Dave S

On 9/16/2011 2:47 PM, Richard Shuttleworth wrote:






On 16 Sep 2011, at 13:18, Richard Shuttleworth wrote:


Why did I get Rachmaninov?

Richard
(Puzzled in Quebec)



Because that is the first item on in the programme.

For Alice and Emily go to 1.09 (hours and minutes).

Good luck

Francis


Ah, I was thinking minutes and seconds not hours and minutes (not used 
to classical radio programmes lasting more than an hour).  Thank you 
Francis. Lovely playing, I feel old :-))


Richard


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[NSP] pastoral

[Dave S]

Hi,
does anyone have a pastoral set for sale, if so reply PM

thanks

Dave S



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[NSP] Re: Playing with a man-ometer . . .

[Dave S]

Hi Francis,

well spotted, and well proportioned what !

Dave

On 8/10/2011 1:23 PM, Francis Wood wrote:

You really have to see this. A great demonstration of playing pressure, from 
full glory to Pipers' Droop. Especially the ending:

http://youtu.be/fPedwnc5e_s

Francis








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[NSP] orchestrated

[Dave S]

Hi,
Does anyone know of any pieces set for brass band and NSP ? I have had a 
request to play with the local band and the request was for Amazing 
Grace and/or Highland Cathedral to which I have said  I won't play 
either of these GHB tunes.
I thought about Windy Gyle ( with permission to be asked for) but has it 
been orchestrated by anyone?


Thanks

Dave S



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[NSP] Re: TOTM/shameless plug

[Dave S]

Hi all,
After Dave Shaw piqued my curiosity I got round to playing with WSOTW 
and thought I would offer this - the ending is a bit of a fiddle, but 
whatever

X:11
T:NPS Collection
T:Whin Shields on the Wall
C:John L. Dunk
Q:1/4=100
M:2/4
L:1/16
K:G
|d2 |:B2G2 G2B2 |A2D2 D2D2 |G2G2 GABc |d3B d2g2 |e2c2 c2e2 |d2G2 G2AB 
|c2E2 E2FG :|
ABcd e2fg |decB ABGF |G3E G2B2 |e2B2 B2e2 |d3A d2e2 |a2e2 e2f2 |g3e g2f2 
|e2d2 c2B2 |A2d2 d2fd :|
A2d2 e2fg |a3g gfed |B2G2 GABG |A2D2 D2EF |G2G2 GABc |d6 g2 | e2c2 c2de 
|1 d2G2 G2AB |c2B2 A2G2 :|2 dedB GAGE |c2F Fd2G-||G3E G4 |]


ciao

Dave S



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[NSP] Re: TOTM/Drones

[Dave S]

Hi -- I have posted the Mad Moll on Northumbrianpipers forum so all 
interested can have a look at an early version of the tune.
Quite possibly it is a droneless undefined key tune -- I have no idea 
and am not qualified to hazard a quess


Dave

On 8/1/2011 7:37 PM, Matt Seattle wrote:

  On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:12 PM, John
  Dally<[1]dir...@gmail.com>  wrote:

Being a drone musician Peacock might have had an insight into the
tonality of the tune.  The first impulse is to think he just
  wanted to
fit it on the keyless chanter.  It's in Em (the relative minor of
G).  Ending on an A, the tune is usually said to be in Am which,
  which,
as Barry points out, misses the point altogether.

It's in 'A neutral', a gapped scale, neither major nor minor (although
Peacock's version has a fleeting c, absent from other versions), it
just happens to start on the 5th of the scale (e). I can't agree that
it's in E anything. It fits perfectly because unlike most Highland pipe
tunes the high a is absent, so no clipping required.

--

References

1. mailto:dir...@gmail.com


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[NSP] Re: TOTM/shameless plug

[Dave S]

Hi Anthony,

Would it be a possibility for you to play the 1697/8 Playford Mad Moll
on your primitive set? If you could get a drone pair to G & C (assuming
it's G setup) Mad moll is in Am and has no Fnats in it.
I have attached a scan for you -- I know the NSP site will strip it off
--- if anyone wants a copy let me know and I will check with Barry/Tim
to get it on site somewhere

best
Dave S



On 7/29/2011 11:16 AM, Anthony Robb wrote:
> Hello all
> I've been reluctant to vote on this since our house is fighting back
> whilst we put in a new kitchen, downstairs loo and new wee studio.
> There is building dust everywhere and my pipes, mics and other gear are
> packed away for the duration.
> Even though I can't contribute musically I would go for Peacock.
> Perhaps most will be familiar with the snippet:
>
> Aal the neet ower and ower
> And aal the neet ower agyen
> Aal the net ower and ower
> The peacock followed the hen
>
> The cock's a dainty dish
> The hen's aal hollow within
> There's nee deceit in a puddin'
> An' pie's a dainty thing
>
> I also think of (but no idea why or where it comes from)
>
> Won't ye come cuddle me cuddy
> Now won't ye come cuddle me reet
> Won't you come cuddle me cuddy
> Just as ye did yesterday neet
>
> That's about all I can offer on TOTM but I also thought some might be
> interested to know that I have put my chanter where my mouth is so to
> speak and had a very happy
> off-the-cuff couple of days putting down 16 tracks (4 of them double
> tracked) on my keyless pipes (The Primitives as maker Bill Hedworth
> called them). I did it primarily as a teaching resource (even though
> there are a few finger-busting favourites) but I've been persuaded to
> go for a proper production of it.
> Interested parties can go here to see what Stewart Hardy makes of it:
> [1]www.robbpipes.com
> Thanks for any interest
> Anthony
>
>
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1. http://www.robbpipes.com/
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
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> Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3793 - Release Date: 07/28/11
>
>

--

[NSP] utube vidoe

[Dave S]

Hi all,

Some piping to listen to

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhSjIanP9EA&feature=player_detailpage

ciao

Dave S



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[NSP] Re: on keilder side

[Dave S]

Thanks John, for the correction -- I had assumed and was wrong - sorry 
Kevin !


Dave S

On 7/16/2011 12:00 AM, Gibbons, John wrote:

Kevin,

Tom Anderson, who wrote it, explained in an interview in 1970, printed in his 
book ''Ringing Strings''

''I was coming out of Eshaness in late January 1969,the time was after 11pm and 
as I looked back at the top of the hill leading out of the district I saw so 
few lights compared to what I had remembered when I was young. As I watched, 
the lights started going out one by one. That, coupled with the recent death of 
my late wife, made me think of the old word 'Slockit' meaning, a light that has 
gone out, and I think that was what inspired the tune.''

John

From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of Dave S 
[david...@pt.lu]
Sent: 15 July 2011 22:27
To: Kevin
Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [NSP] Re: on keilder side

Hi,

It's probably a lighthouse on a promontary called "Da Slockit" in the
Shetland Islands -- super tune on NSP.
Tom Anderson wrote some superb melodies for violin --- and the Kielder
is a village and a river

Dave S

On 7/15/2011 10:43 PM, Kevin wrote:

Hello to All,
i have just had a question from my Swedish friend who is asking the meaning of 
a tune:
"On one of Kathryn Tickells earliest recordings "on kielder side" theres a happy tune 
called  "da slockit light" do you know the tune?
which i can only guess means the turned of light?.
What does it really mean? And what is on kielder side? Is it a river perhaps. 
Thanks. Mikael. "

can anyone enlighten him on the title of the tune?
kevin



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[NSP] Re: on keilder side

[Dave S]

Hi,

It's probably a lighthouse on a promontary called "Da Slockit" in the 
Shetland Islands -- super tune on NSP.
Tom Anderson wrote some superb melodies for violin --- and the Kielder 
is a village and a river


Dave S

On 7/15/2011 10:43 PM, Kevin wrote:

Hello to All,
i have just had a question from my Swedish friend who is asking the meaning of 
a tune:
"On one of Kathryn Tickells earliest recordings "on kielder side" theres a happy tune 
called  "da slockit light" do you know the tune?
which i can only guess means the turned of light?.
What does it really mean? And what is on kielder side? Is it a river perhaps. 
Thanks. Mikael. "

can anyone enlighten him on the title of the tune?
kevin



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[NSP] Re: Mr Dunk - Inspector of Public Nuisances

[Dave S]

from the last couple of mail it's a critiques slam dunk

Dave

H . . . Dunk and disorderly.

Francis





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[NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe

[Dave S]

Hi Francis,
yes interesting indeed - the midi sounds like a minor plagiarize from a 
Purcell air in Dmin -- or bits of downfall of the djinn -- perhaps 
O'Carolan varied a tune based on Purcell or was it vice-versa -- I  
looked in Anderson vol 1 for Morpeth rant but could not find it -- does 
anyone have vol 2 or later with it in ?


sods to the music moguls - keep music live

Dave




On 7/15/2011 3:57 PM, Francis Wood wrote:

On 15 Jul 2011, at 14:48, Dave S wrote:


The Arethusa is from a musical farce called "Lock and Key" and in the British 
Minstrelsy the melody is assigned to Shield.

Hi Dave,

That's interesting!

More here:

http://www.contemplator.com/sea/arethusa.html

Francis




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[NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe

[Dave S]

Hi,

The Arethusa is from a musical farce called "Lock and Key" and in the 
British Minstrelsy the melody is assigned to Shield


Dave S

On 7/15/2011 2:21 PM, Anthony Robb wrote:

Hello Matt
Lovely!
--- On Fri, 15/7/11, Matt Seattle
wrote:

  From: Matt Seattle
  Subject: [NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe
  To: "NSP group"
  Date: Friday, 15 July, 2011, 12:42

   Impressive, Francis. Now you've even uncovered where Shield has been
   Haydn for all these years.
   On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Francis Wood
   <[1][1]oatenp...@googlemail.com>  wrote:
   On 15 Jul 2011, at 10:41, Francis Wood wrote:
 >  Finally, there is an odd, tenuous and completely inconsequential
 connection between Shield and Morpeth.
  . . . .and another odd, inconsequential and irrelevant fact in
the
 present discussion. Shield is buried under the same stone as
Salomon
 who 'brought Haydn to England' as the inscription states:

[2][2]http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=
 95553

[3][3]http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=
 89571
 Shield knew Haydn well and was one of his closest English friends.
 francis
   To get on or off this list see list information at
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   --
References
   1. mailto:[5]oatenp...@googlemail.com
   2.
[6]http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=955
53
   3.
[7]http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=895
71
   4. [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

References

1. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=oatenp...@googlemail.com
2. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=
3. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=
4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
5. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=oatenp...@googlemail.com
6. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=95553
7. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=10244&PIpi=89571
8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html



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[NSP] Re: Rants again

[Dave S]

Etymology+Origin of rant (verb)

   1598, from Du. randten "talk foolishly, rave," of unknown origin (cf.
   Ger. rantzen "to frolic, spring about"). The noun is first attested
   1649, from the verb. Ranters "antinomian sect which arose in England
   c.1645" is attested from 1651; applied 1823 to early Methodists. A 1700
   slang dictionary has rantipole "a rude wild Boy or Girl."


   On 7/11/2011 8:32 PM, Tim Rolls wrote:

rant. Old Eng. 17th-cent. dance of the jig variety. It originated in Scotland an
d N. England. Four examples occur in Playford's The Dancing Master (1657 and 166
5 revisions).
The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Music | 1996

Any advance on Playford?

Smith's New Rant (What happened to the old one?)
A Scots Rant

A rendition of The Italian Rant
[1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPL2FXqVc9M

Tim
On 11 Jul 2011, at 14:06, Gibbons, John wrote:


'Rant', as in 'Morpeth Rant', appeared in Vickers' MS in 1770,
predating the Primitive Methodists.

But 'Ranters' were another religious sect during the Civil War,
so an old name was reapplied to the Primitive Methodists.

The use of 'rant' for various dance tunes, in various rhythms,
occurs through much of the 18th century, eg The Cameronian's Rant is a reel,
The Collier's Rant a song in 6/8.

The restricted use of the term to 4/4 tunes like The Morpeth Rant is much more s
pecific,
and local to Northumberland.
It is perhaps significant that Scots Measures went out of fashion about the time
 rants came in.
Both have 8 bars of 4/4. The main difference between the forms is that in the fo
rmer,
the cadences have a crotchet then two tied (syncopated) crotchets,
while rants have a strong 3rd beat, and there is no tie.
It would be interesting to know (though we never will)
what Morpeth Rant looked like in Vickers before the page got lost.
He retained syncopation in similar positions in some hornpipes.

John



-Original Message-
From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[3]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Beha
lf Of Tim Rolls
Sent: 11 July 2011 13:46
To: NSP group
Subject: [NSP] Re: Rants again

Unencumbered as I am by knowledge, experience or understanding of dance steps, I
 too have asked this question. I am led to believe that the emphasis should be o
n the third beat of the bar as this mirrors a larger/more emphatic step in the d
ance.

I had a look at Moody to see if there's any guidance linguistically. No definite
 help, we have:

Rantan, Rantaan. Used in the phrase "on the rantan", indulging one's self in dis
orderly and wild conduct as a form of high spirited enjoyment: a milder form of
"on the rampaadge"(sic), "on the spree", e.g. He's gyen on the rantan,  i.e. his
 frolic can be sympathetically excused.

Ranter
1. A term applied in contemptuous disparagement to the more zealous members of t
he Methodist Church - particularly of the Primitive Methodist body - who were gi
ven to ardent impromptu prayers, lusty singing of hymns and loud ejaculations of
 Pious praise during their religious services. Thus: "Aa've left the Chorch (Ang
lican) an' aa've joined the Ranters.Note, the Primitive Methodist Church origina
ted in 1807-1810 and the term Ranter was first used in 1814.
2. By transference, applied to hymns sung in the Primitive Methodist and United
Methodist Churches, or in the Salvation Army. These hymns, nowadays sadly out of
 favour, were characterised by rollicking tunes, half line refrains (sung by alt
ernate parts) and rather crude sentiment; but they were enjoyable to sing and we
re rendered both lustily and fervently: e.g. "Ay, that's a gud aad Rantor that h
ymn"

So can anyone fill in the gap between the hymns and the dance? Or any of the rol
licking tunes?

I'll put this on the NSP forum as a question too.

cheers
Tim

On 11 Jul 2011, at 13:05, Gibbons, John wrote:


Why has this rant thread gone so quiet all last week?

What makes a tune sound like a rant, rather than a reel or hornpipe?
If I take a (4 in a bar) hornpipe without triplets, speed it up a bit, but not a
s much as a reel,
smooth out the dotting a bit, and emphasise the odd beats at the expense of the
even ones,
will I get a rant? How essential are those 3-crotchet cadences?

Are there any essential stylistic features that this attempt at a description mi
sses?



John




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[NSP] Re: Was Mr. Fenwick right?

[Dave S]

Hello Barry,

That seems like a very fair and well thought out description of the 
state of the art


it's clear to me, but then the mind can be like a parachute

Dave S

On 6/22/2011 11:56 PM, barr...@nspipes.co.uk wrote:


In the instruction book published by the Northumbrian Smallpipes 
Society in 1896,

Mr Fenwick wrote,

'The note G is sounded by lifting the fourth finger off the bottom 
hole. To produce A, replace the fourth finger on the hole, and raise 
the third finger. The other notes are produced by closing and opening 
one hole at a time as given in the scale.'


It seems to me that there are some deficiencies in this description. 
If we follow the instruction in the first sentence, we are left with a 
G sounding. This will go on until we decide to play another note. In 
order to play that other note we have to move two fingers in a 
coordinated fashion.


I would suggest a better description as

A note of G is sounded by lifting the fourth finger off the bottom 
hole for the length of time appropriate to the note and then replacing 
it. Other notes are played in the same fashion either by lifting a 
finger or thumb to open a tone-hole for the required duration and then 
replacing the finger or thumb or by depressing a key for the 
appropriate length of time and then releasing it.


The major difference is that every note has a length as well as a 
pitch, the player is aware of the length of the note when he starts to 
play it, and the note isn't complete until it has been stopped.


Mr Fenwick's description seems to me to owe a lot to the style of 
playing appropriate to open ended pipes such as GHB.  Once the pipes 
are started, a stream of sound emanates from the chanter and the 
player is engaged in directing this to various pitches. It is a bit 
like operating a garden hose with no access to the tap. You can direct 
where the water goes but you cannot stop it.


Conversely, with a closed end chanter NSP can produce distinct notes, 
and I think this is the way the instrument is best approached. Once we 
know how to play a G quaver, we can decide to play a G quaver without 
worrying about where the note will end. Our training will kick in and 
the fourth finger will descend at the appropriate time. we should 
imagine the whole of the note in our head before playing it.


We can decide to follow that G with an A  and to do that we lift the 
third finger at the appropriate time. and the fourth finger has 
already closed the G hole. Initially the gaps between the notes will 
be large, but with practise they *will* come down to an appropriate 
length.


This description is my own but it owes much to detailed listening to 
recordings of Chris Ormston, to practice methods described by 
Inky-Adrian and discussions with other pipers who shall for now remain 
nameless. I feel that there are parallels with the methods used by 
Sports psychologists and coaches who encourage those they are teaching 
to break down the actions they require into well defined segments, and 
to have a clear vision of the outcome they wish to achieve before they 
start the action - we should 'think' the note before we play it.


Does this make any sort of sense?

Barry



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[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead

[Dave S]

nah Tim, propa poms

Dave

On 6/21/2011 3:54 PM, Tim Rolls wrote:

Popapoms would be the Australian version then?

Tim
On 21 Jun 2011, at 14:44, Dave S wrote:


Colin, that would be popapoms then, er, hope there are no cheerleaders affronted

Dave

On 6/21/2011 3:31 PM, cwhill wrote:

So popadoms then :)

Colin Hill


On 21/06/2011 12:18, Gibbons, John wrote:


When I was in a choir, a composer of a piece we'd commissioned explained
legato, poco staccato and staccato respectively as pah, pom, and pop.

For NSP, pah is a no-no, as notes need definite ends.
So the spectrum we work between is somewhere between pom and pop.
Occasional ventures into staccatissimo, as in Meggy's Foot, need a pip instead.

But generally the notes should come out like peas, not lentils.

John

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu
Sent: 21 June 2011 09:45
To: barr...@nspipes.co.uk
Cc: rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [NSP] Re: Deaf/dead

Oops, outlook tells me I've already sent a reply. I wonder what it said...

Barry, et al.


May I point you to the Dolmetsch dictionary

http://www.dolmetsch.com/defss4.htm


Thanks, this is very interesting but unfortunately reminds me that dictionaries 
are not infallible. (I have been working as a professional translator since 
1974).

And indeed that musicians and lexicographers cannot always agree on the precise 
meaning of the terminology they use.

For example, here: http://www.winterkonzerte.de/fachbegriffe.html

I found: "spiccato: Deutlich, abgesetzt, mit gestoßenen Noten (Bogentechnik bei 
Streichinstrumenten).
staccato: Gestoßen, kurz, abgehackt. Gegensatz:->   legato"

The terminology here is very vague, and doesn't explain the fundamental difference between staccato 
and spiccato, i.e. that staccato stays on the string and spiccato bounces. This is further confused 
by the fact that French-speakers tend to call any bouncing stroke "sautillé" even though 
this term more strictly applies to the rapid bouncing of the wood of the bow unassisted, as it 
were, and is related to tremolo. "sautillé" works well on fast semiquavers, spiccato can 
be used on relatively slow notes. It is performed with the upper arm and the bow reaches and leaves 
the string like an aircraft landing and immediatly taking off again or like a stone skimmed across 
water.

Back to Dolmetsch: it does give "staccare (Italian) to detach, to separate each note" as 
the basic meaning. Then things get complicated. For example, I can assure you that détaché means 
what I described in my previous posting, as also found here: 
http://www.violinonline.com/bowstrokes.htm "Détaché indicates smooth, separate bow strokes 
should be used for each note (it does not mean detached or disconnected). Notes are of equal value, 
and are produced with an even, seamless stroke with no variation in pressure."

Not because I necessarily trust this source (for example, it makes martelé and 
staccato sound like the same thing) but having been trained in Luxembourg 
(where the system and terminology are very much based on the French model) and 
Liège - and sometimes by French-speaking teachers - this is what I have learnt 
that the expressions mean.

Back to Dolmetsch again: it implies that staccato is the same thing as gestoßen 
(German), détaché (French), piqué (French).

Gestoßen certainly means détaché but piqué doesn't; it means something more 
like staccatissimo.

So I wouldn't rely too much on dictionaries (for example, what is the relevance 
of the reference to Monteverdi's use of pizzicato in this context?)



Personally, staccato is a word I use for musical effects and
never for
a piping style. I think it merely confuses matters.

Quite rightly. But it does have a technical meaning for string players.

Sorry if I sound like a know-all, but the above is merely a distillation of 
what I have gathered over several decades to be the consensus among practising 
string players as opposed to lexicographers and musicologists and is offered 
FWIW.

Best,

Chris (wer übt, hat's nötig) Birch



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[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead

[Dave S]

Colin, that would be popapoms then, er, hope there are no cheerleaders 
affronted


Dave

On 6/21/2011 3:31 PM, cwhill wrote:

So popadoms then :)

Colin Hill


On 21/06/2011 12:18, Gibbons, John wrote:



When I was in a choir, a composer of a piece we'd commissioned explained
legato, poco staccato and staccato respectively as pah, pom, and pop.

For NSP, pah is a no-no, as notes need definite ends.
So the spectrum we work between is somewhere between pom and pop.
Occasional ventures into staccatissimo, as in Meggy's Foot, need a 
pip instead.


But generally the notes should come out like peas, not lentils.

John

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On 
Behalf Of christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu

Sent: 21 June 2011 09:45
To: barr...@nspipes.co.uk
Cc: rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [NSP] Re: Deaf/dead

Oops, outlook tells me I've already sent a reply. I wonder what it 
said...


Barry, et al.


May I point you to the Dolmetsch dictionary

http://www.dolmetsch.com/defss4.htm

Thanks, this is very interesting but unfortunately reminds me that 
dictionaries are not infallible. (I have been working as a 
professional translator since 1974).


And indeed that musicians and lexicographers cannot always agree on 
the precise meaning of the terminology they use.


For example, here: http://www.winterkonzerte.de/fachbegriffe.html

I found: "spiccato: Deutlich, abgesetzt, mit gestoßenen Noten 
(Bogentechnik bei Streichinstrumenten).

staccato: Gestoßen, kurz, abgehackt. Gegensatz:->  legato"

The terminology here is very vague, and doesn't explain the 
fundamental difference between staccato and spiccato, i.e. that 
staccato stays on the string and spiccato bounces. This is further 
confused by the fact that French-speakers tend to call any bouncing 
stroke "sautillé" even though this term more strictly applies to the 
rapid bouncing of the wood of the bow unassisted, as it were, and is 
related to tremolo. "sautillé" works well on fast semiquavers, 
spiccato can be used on relatively slow notes. It is performed with 
the upper arm and the bow reaches and leaves the string like an 
aircraft landing and immediatly taking off again or like a stone 
skimmed across water.


Back to Dolmetsch: it does give "staccare (Italian) to detach, to 
separate each note" as the basic meaning. Then things get 
complicated. For example, I can assure you that détaché means what I 
described in my previous posting, as also found here: 
http://www.violinonline.com/bowstrokes.htm "Détaché indicates smooth, 
separate bow strokes should be used for each note (it does not mean 
detached or disconnected). Notes are of equal value, and are produced 
with an even, seamless stroke with no variation in pressure."


Not because I necessarily trust this source (for example, it makes 
martelé and staccato sound like the same thing) but having been 
trained in Luxembourg (where the system and terminology are very much 
based on the French model) and Liège - and sometimes by 
French-speaking teachers - this is what I have learnt that the 
expressions mean.


Back to Dolmetsch again: it implies that staccato is the same thing 
as gestoßen (German), détaché (French), piqué (French).


Gestoßen certainly means détaché but piqué doesn't; it means 
something more like staccatissimo.


So I wouldn't rely too much on dictionaries (for example, what is the 
relevance of the reference to Monteverdi's use of pizzicato in this 
context?)




Personally, staccato is a word I use for musical effects and
never for
a piping style. I think it merely confuses matters.


Quite rightly. But it does have a technical meaning for string players.

Sorry if I sound like a know-all, but the above is merely a 
distillation of what I have gathered over several decades to be the 
consensus among practising string players as opposed to 
lexicographers and musicologists and is offered FWIW.


Best,

Chris (wer übt, hat's nötig) Birch



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[NSP] Re: Tune books with arrangements for other instruments

[Dave S]

Hi Ian -- I think there are some books by Derek Hobbs on the NSP site

cheers

Dave S

On 6/18/2011 6:59 PM, Ian Lawther wrote:
I know there have been some books published in the past that include 
tune arrangements for Northumbrian pipes and other instruments though 
as someone who is normally a solo player I haven't taken much 
notice..until now.


I need to encourage an 11 year old flautist and 12 year old cellist to 
practice during the school summer holiday (which starts next week here 
in the US) and thought trying some group playing might be better than 
getting each to do solo practice. Are there any books that would cover 
such instruments and if so anyone know sources? Beyond NSP there are 
other instruments I play that could join in with them so general 
British folk music arranged for assorted instruments would also be good.


Thanks,

Ian



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[NSP] typo

[Dave S]

oops  --- creating  having problems with seing at the moment

Dave



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[NSP] UP open/closed fingering

[Dave S]

Hello,

Here is a link to Liam O'Flynn discussing the topic of styles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQU84O8xZlE&feature=related

and for those who follow LBPS and Paul Roberts winning piece this will 
be doubly of interest


I enjoy listening to this musician cresting stories on his pipes -- fabulous

Dave S



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[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead

[Dave S]

Love it --  copulating skeletons   eh bien 'enri c'est formidable

Thanks for that Barry

cheers

Dave S

On 6/17/2011 10:44 PM, barr...@nspipes.co.uk wrote:

Quoting Francis Wood :

Ah. harpsichord duets. The sound of skeletons copulating on a 
corrugated tin roof.


(Boult? Arnorld? cant remember!)

oops should have been "can't" (Henri l'apostrophe)

That's enuff
B.



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[NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions

[Dave S]

OK OK I see I just got Visa'd

ciao

On 6/17/2011 10:17 AM, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote:

Bugger! Dartmouth doesn't like rich text. Here's a "proper" e-mail:

__
From:   BIRCH Christopher (DGT)
Sent:   Friday, June 17, 2011 10:15 AM
To: 'Dave S'; Inky- Adrian
Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject:RE: [NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions

Please define "can" ;-)


>This CAN of worms just lost it's lid
>
>

>>  Anthony, CAN you play the NSPs?
>>  --

Plus ça reste la même chose …..
Csírz



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[NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions

[Dave S]

Hi Inky-Adrian,

This now brings us full circle -- doesn't it

Please define "Play" and "Play the NSPs"

This can of worms just lost it's lid

Viva la Vida

Dave S

On 6/17/2011 2:22 AM, Inky- Adrian wrote:

Anthony, can you play the NSPs?
--



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[NSP] Re: Trad.nsp vs Dartmouth

[Dave S]

Hi Inky,
-- glad you keep one eye open and nope I can't play proper - I don't 
have the wrapper of the tradition anywhere near - so I don't even bother 
with any form of competition, I just like great instruments.


Dave S

On 6/16/2011 8:08 PM, Inky- Adrian wrote:

The annual smallpipe Bitch and Bite comps. will be in July. There will
be 6 classes: absolute sloppyness and running-your-notes-in, just damn
right easy-playing, almost there, nearly normal, can't play like
that-it's too hard and tight as a cats arsehole.
Tommy Breckons would be proud of me!
--


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[NSP] Re: divorce

[Dave S]

   Thanks Francis, ---
    Original Message 

   Subject: Re: [NSP] divorce
  Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:16:16 +0200
  From: Dave S [1]
To: Francis Wood [2]

Hi Francis,
I concur with all of your points, it's not bad at all that there are now
3 places to pick up info, the sad thing is that there is no
co-ordination or contact between the 3 at this time -- useful info will
only get to a limited audience when it comes out into the open from any
one of the groups.
That is the worst of this difference of opinion, and from memory I can't
think of many reforms forced through by a minority in a democratic way
but Inky is right to question the perhaps limiting behaviour on  "The
Nsp is" definition

Julia - can you give us a bit insight into this area --

can't society ask for the opening of a separate class of "allied to NSP"
to allow development -- this would allow shuttle drone blocks (certainly
much easier to travel with and it does not damage so easily) and
sordellinos ( basically an NSP with regulators), but it came from
somewhere else - so ? and what of the phagotum - that would certainly
create interest.
Maybe someone will have ingenuity to build a "boehm keyed" NSP -- but
will it be accepted? - narrow bore piccolo what next, LOL.
 Variety is the spice to life - but yes we need tradition but the core
tradition may well benefit from a wider supporting role from acceptable
close to or offshoots of the original type pipes. What was the original
tradition based on anyway ? I am not qualified to even hazard a quess
sso - suffice to say - the 17 key is way away from the original
isn't it -- a keyless chanter -- or are there a variety of traditions ie
no key - 4 key - 5,7,11,13,15,17 18, etc etc and then we have not yet
begun on the drone possibilites.
I think the Lowland and Border society comes closer to harmonizing it's
members by saying "drones in a common stock"

As for oil -- I certainly go for "neck oil" of most varieties, except
flat beer

cheers me dears

Dave S



On 6/16/2011 10:22 AM, Francis Wood wrote:
> Hello Dave and others,
>
> I see things a little differently.
>
> Two things have happened here, the first being a move to have opinions, inform
ation and other resources made permanently available in the form of a forum. Thi
s is currently happening  in the NPS Forum and the Traditional NSP Forum establi
shed by Inky-Adrian. The advantage of the forum medium is clear - it provides a
growing archive where threads are easily followed and remain related to their or
iginal header. This is not so with the archived posts of this, or any  other lis
t.
>
> The second development is that there are now two separate forums. It might be
argued that it's a pity that the party is going on in two different houses. My o
wn view is that diversity is a good thing. Each forum can learn and develop from
 the other. It's also a good demonstration that the often-confused NSP and NPS a
re not in fact the same thing, and that each can exist detached from the other.
>
> I'll continue to follow and enjoy this list, though I treat it very much as a
newspaper, occasionally keeping cuttings but treating the rest as daily ephemera
.  As a repository of useful fact and opinion, it doesn't really work.
>
> By the way, does anyone have any good ideas about the right kind of oil to use
?
>
> Francis
>
>
> On 16 Jun 2011, at 08:38, Dave S wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> It seems as though Inky has his wish. The tradition is now firmly no longer o
ut in the open.
>> This list served the purpose of introducing the beginner(shy fence-sitter to
brash young expert) to light conversation/disagreement/proposition on all subjec
ts around the wonderful instrument known as the NSP. It has done this well for a
 good number of years, but I believe the polarisation Inky wrongly thought was n
ecessary to save his ideal methodology (rightly or wrongly) of the ONLY way to p
lay NSP has wrought more damage than can now be imagined.
>> I would liken it to attempting to harmonize the  accents used by people in an
y single country of the world.
>> I find it rather saddening that this has occurred - I will continue to listen
 and reply to try and keep this list going -- will the rest of you out there do
the same ??
>>
>> Inky has a good heart but perhaps a too impulsive temperament has taken over
in this case -- why not teach your method to the masses by force of persuation,
Inky, and not by force of typing.
>> Of course there are multiple sides in the recent situation but I hope our lov
e the instrument, it's possibilities and it's beatiful music will eventually pre
vail over the hot tempered reactions.
>>
>> ciao
>>
>> Dave S
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To get on or off this list see l

[NSP] test

[Dave S]

Just checking my send connection

Dave S



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[NSP] abc visualizer

[Dave S]

Hi all,

For ABC fans I came across this FREE player from Myriad -- it will load 
midis abc and other types of music files -- and give the notation from 
the abc or midi -- and play them back - can handle multiple staves

http://www.myriad-online.com/en/products/melodyplayer.htm
It will handle fairly large abc's -- excellent for practise as it has a 
metronome

Try it out --

enjoy

Dave S



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[NSP] article by J.D.

[Dave S]

Hi John,

I agree wholeheartedly -- I can't think of a more wondrous thing than 
pipes played with emotion and "soul" -- if they are in tune that is ---


Dave S

On 5/23/2011 6:52 PM, John Dally wrote:

Melodeon.net is a remarkably interesting and helpful resource if you're
a box player.  One of the things they do is have a "tune of the month"
where members vote on a tune out of a list of four and then everyone is
invited to post their rendition of it on [1]youtube.com.  The
moderators also select a theme, like "Irish tunes" or "wedding tunes"
or something like that.  I have found this to be a real boost to my
learning to play the melodeon, learning tunes, connecting with folks
around the world, getting good advice.  The remarkable thing is that I
haven't come across a negative comment or any comment that wasn't made
with the best intentions.  Of course, people do have their favorite
instruments and styles, etc., and some have their bugaboos, but overall
it's a very encouraging internet community.



Perhaps, we could doing something like this here on the NSP newsgroup.
If even only a few people think this is a good idea and want to
participate I think it would be a good way to keep the conversation
going and help each other out.  It also gives something for people to
work towards, like a competition without the stress and judgement.
Perhaps one of the reasons the melodeon group is so friendly is that
they don't have competition built into their culture the way pipers
do.  (For a diatribe on the subject see my editorial at
[2]www.theotherpipers.org).



Anyway, if this seems like an interesting idea to enough people perhaps
we could name a "tune of the month" for June by this coming weekend.



cheers,



John Dally

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References

1. http://youtube.com/
2. http://www.theotherpipers.org/


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[NSP] Re: whatever

[Dave S]

Hi Adrian,

Seems to me to be a very small Bassoon, double reed --- lots of keys,
you know the one that developed from the Dulcian (one or two keys only),
that is used in all styles of music. The Dulcian lost favour and now is
little known outside renaissance circles. I would think that the same
happened to the NS and was  lucky enough to have some avid followers who
prolonged it lifespan by adding keys, but this is pure conjecture.
Why strangle development ? Hotteterre and Boismortier had a lot more to
do with NS than most people know. Hotteterre (late 1600) added the first
stacatto smallpipe to a bagpipe, Boismortier made his living from
wriring music playable on smallpipes --

Alice, I find, has a refreshing view of the instruments possibilities,
which in turn may well extend the lifespan of the instrument which is no
bad thing.  It keeps makers and teachers and in business and live music
live.

If Alice were to choose a second instrument I would recommend Bassoon,
where agile thumbs are a necessary part of playing.

Anyway the list has been quiet

Thumbs up

Dave S



On 5/22/2011 3:25 AM, inky-adrian wrote:

 Hello all,
 to play so many notes with the thumb? What sort of instrument is this.
 First it was holes, fingered, then a Top A key? Then more key's,7. Then
 more key's,17. Whatever!
 We now have some-one playing 60-odd key's in 78 note's? Correct me if
 I'm wrong.
 This is very strange.
 The correct playing method will die and people, like you Anthony , will
 make money.
 I'm not influenced by money.
 I do promote the correct way of playing the Northumberland Small-pipes,
 as does Mr Ormston; for free!
 I hope the Northumberland small-pipes would die, as Tom Breckon's
 agreed with me, it should.
 your's
 Fingerless
 Adrian


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[NSP] Re: Clough v Reid - keys sequence

[Dave S]

Hi Philip,

This is another idea -- the bottom keys ( D - Eb I think) allow choice
of finger -

regards

Dave S

On 5/5/2011 11:10 AM, Philip Gruar wrote:
> a.d.s wrote
>>   Clough played in A maj and C maj. The arrangement of the Clough
>>   arrangement of key's was C low at the left side and B at the right
>> side
>>   and that would allow player's to play in B and play the Beeswing,
>>   Underhand and whatever.
>
> Thanks for the replies on and off-list so far.
> As expected, there are differing opinions.
>
> Adrian - are you saying that a B left, C right arrangement will make
> it significantly harder to play Beeswing, Underhand etc? Is the
> classic CB style essential/desirable for the traditional virtuoso
> repertoire?
>
> If I start making chanters with BC instead of the traditional CB, am I
> sending non-standard instruments out into the piping world which will
> hamper their future owners for years to come? Or will they join
> Colin's chanters with ABC, low G's etc. as part of the rich tapestry,
> which players will get used to?
>
> Should pipe-makers adopt a new standard with a left-side low B, but
> try to make it still just as easy to hit in arpeggios down from G/D as
> a right-side low B?
> Maybe this should only be done where there is also a right-side C#
> paired with D, but not where the C# is on the left?
>
> Philip
>
>
> - Original Message - From: "a.d.s" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 1:36 AM
> Subject: [NSP] Clough v Reid
>
>
>>   Hello all,
> I don't know of any player's since Clough that
>>   played in C except me and those that followed my example. Top C was
>>   added to my chanter by Colin, which was in F, which allowed me to play
>>   from low C to top C. This was a first as far as I know; bottom G
>> didn't
>>   exist then.
>>   Adrian
>>
>>   --
>>
>>
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>
>
>
>
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[NSP] Re: Free Book on Northumbrian Smallpipes

[Dave S]

Thanks John,

Dave Singleton

On 4/30/2011 11:22 AM, John Liestman wrote:

I have decided to "set my book free", so you can now download The
Northumbrian Smallpipes Tutor from my website at [1]www.liestman.com
for free. I am no longer offering the book in a printed and bound
version for sale, although there are a few copies in England to be
bought if you desire. Enjoy!
--
John Liestman

--

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[NSP] Re: Still looking for an F set!

[Dave S]

I would recommend Uwe Seitz who lives near HeilBrunn in Germany, his set 
are A440 F so one can play at concert pitch with a consort/ensemble/ etc 
and push a bit for F+


Dave Singleton

On 3/23/2011 3:35 PM, John Dally wrote:

You want us to recommend a maker?  ha, ha, ha.

On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 4:02 AM, Gordon Brown  wrote:

   My wife Alison has a Burleigh D set is still looking for an F set so
   that she can play along with other pipers - not that there are many in
   East Anglia! If anyone has a set for sale or knows of one that may be
   available, please let me know.


   The alternative is that we look for a new set, although I'm bracing
   myself for the long wait. On that basis, does anyone have any
   recommendations for a nice traditional/conventional F set? As I've had
   a good year price is not the main consideration, quality and
   reliability are.


   Cheers

   Gordon

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[NSP] Re: Tuning/pitch

[Dave S]

Hi Dave

Thanks for the info -- my thought was based on looking at my copy 
flageolet (french) by Charlie  Wells -- plays over 2 octaves chromatic 
with six holes, two on the back and four in front with large spooning 
inside round each tone hole, he said that's the way he gets the hole 
equi-distant and two octaves in tune --


always glad of snippits from the makers --

Dave S

On 2/11/2011 11:32 AM, Dave Shaw wrote:

#snip
In an Irish chanter bore if you enlarge the bore round a tone hole, 
the first octave sharpens and the second octave flattens.
Getting the right balance in the octaves is one of the great pleasures 
of making Irish chanters.

  snip



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[NSP] Re: Tuning/pitch

[Dave S]

I was under the impression that if cavities get carved inside a bore 
(not just pin-pricks of drill points) with the cavity around the sound 
hole area, it will reduce the pitch of that particular note to a slight 
extent in the bottom octave (and more so in the second octave, which is 
out of scope for NSP), so it may save a chanter fill and re-drill 
operation by "spooning" in the bore around the hole (let's say a bottom 
E that is too high).


Dave S

On 2/10/2011 11:38 AM, Julia Say wrote:

On 9 Feb 2011, Philip Gruar wrote:

Well, quite. One can both hear and feel the drill reaching the bore. 
Nevertheless
it was something I was warned about, and was checked up on.

Now I'm wondering about the acoustic effect of all those "dimples" that do 
occur in
various makes of pipes (historical and otherwise) on what I believe is supposed 
to
be a smooth shiny bore.
(Not to mention all the "agricultural" standard bores that are about - this a
phrase which makers  fettlers sometimes use!)






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[NSP] Re: Esoteric tuning relationships

[Dave S]

Absolutely Francis, music is a sociable activity, I also think the idea 
is take your pipes out of the box and be able to muck in with any other 
type of instrument. I may be considered different but I like the idea of 
just saying - yep it's a Bb transposing, so treat it like a clarinet. I 
therefore set up for A=440( as close as is possible) and like the way it 
sounds.
As for re-reeded pipes that get modded at the top end -- that would be a 
staple conicity variation, thus not just the old reed that was in it, it 
has to be the original makers staple --


Dave S

On 2/9/2011 7:17 PM, Francis Wood wrote:

  Playing music is primarily a sociable activity and there seems to be little 
point in encouraging an NSP 'sharp-F ghetto' where players can only play 
comfortably with their own kind. For that reason, I think that anyone 
considering buying and learning pipes should consider whether they intend to 
play primarily with other instruments or just with with pipes . If pipe-makers 
are offering to provide pipes set up in these alternative pitches, they should 
make themselves known.




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[NSP] Re: Bewicks "German Spa"

[Dave S]

Hi Ian,

Check out "Shotley Sword-makers" - it may have be a link to the spa 
and the German sword makers who emigrated in the time of King William


Tschüss

Dave s

On 2/1/2011 5:09 AM, Ian Lawther wrote:
I've just noticed a tune called "German Spa" in Bewick and wondered if 
it is, by definition, a Bad tune!


Ian



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[NSP] Re: Intonation

[Dave S]

Hi,

Years ago John Leistman wrote an article  about balancing drone reeds, 
if you can find this article it will explain in great detail the why and 
wherefore of tuning drones --- and why each set is different.


in short it's to do with the pressure each player uses and how and if 
they tune their drone reeds to the pressure they like to use to have 
their chanter "ring true"


Dave S

On 1/11/2011 1:40 PM, Colin and Cheryl McNaught wrote:

Following on from these sage comments, does anyone have ideas about
what causes some drones to be significantly more pressure sensitive
than others.  By this I mean their pitch varies more for a given change
in bag pressure.  Once they are adjusted for pitch and pressure there
doesn't seem to be anything else to tweak without spoiling the
pitch/pressure set-ups.  I have a set that is very stable and another
that has a couple of drones that aren't and would like to improve them.

I always try to play other pipe sets when at NSP get-togethers and it's
been my experience that every set I have played has some quirky notes.
 I'm sure there's a reed dependency in this too.  Making small (often
unconscious) adjustments in bag pressure seems to be a part of playing
this instrument well (just as embouchure adjustments on, e.g. oboe,
flute).  Consequently, a set of drones that is more stable can result
in a 'sweeter' end result than one that isn't.

Colin (McNaught)
On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 7:05 PM,<[1]gibbonssoi...@aol.com>  wrote:

As many notes on an NSP chanter can be bent about a quarter tone
without putting the drones far out - at least on a good reed day -
  I
guess one difference between a good piper and a fairly good one is
  the
former will squeeze notes into tune unconsciously and accurately,
  the
latter consciously and only fairly accurately.
I often think of singing the note, so I have an idea of the
  pitch
in my head, to aim for. Listening to the chord with the drones -
  if
these are in tune - also helps with some notes. It is the notes
  that
harmonise with the drones which are most exposed if out of tune,
  so
recognising a just 3rd or whatever tells you you've got there. The
singing trick doesn't work so well if you are still thinking
equal-tempered, mind. So chords are better.
Long notes are good practice for this - I wonder if this is
  one
reason Tom Clough liked playing hymn tunes? 'Oh God our Help in
  Ages
Past' (aka St Anne, or 'The Goldfish') is a good one for this,
  dead
slow.
I sometimes use this to see if the drones are 'really' in tune.
When I started playing NSP after playing the flute for years,
  my
embouchure would bend to try to bring notes in - ineffective of
  itself,
but I found I was doing something useful as well, as the notes
  came
more into tune (I pinched a non-existent thumbhole to get the top
octave on the whistle, as well). That first set I had needed a bit
of variable squeezing to bring some notes close to where they
  should
be.
Intonation is a mystery on most instruments, and the hardest
  part
to get right. A related issue is tone colour - finger vibrato
  alters
the harmonics of a note substantially, changing the colour a lot;
pressure vibrato much less so. Taking a lower finger off the
  chanter
may vary the pitch up or down, so you can use finger vibrato to
  improve
the intonation as well as the colour. Or worsen the intonation, if
  you
use the wrong finger.
Knowing which lower finger moves which notes in which direction is
something one ought to learn. I tend to use the same finger
  whatever,
if it works.
John
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[NSP] Re: Doubleday

[Dave S]

Hello inky-adrian,

This is interesting and thought provoking, but I would like to have your 
insight on where, and how, the precision can be found and appreciated. 
At my level of fumbling I need all the help I can get to begin to feel 
the phrases the composer unconsciously put together to make the pipes 
express his wishes.


Thanks (we have winter here as well!)

Dave S




On 12/6/2010 2:14 AM, inky-adrian wrote:

Hello all
this instrument does not lack ability, it lacks players who can't play 
in the correct method; not many can do that. Expression is emphasised 
in precision. I'm not here to delineate. There is no more expression 
in those who can play the detached method with feeling. 




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[NSP] Re: Pipes with continuo?

[Dave S]

   Hi Richard,
   [1]http://books.google.lu/books?id=VoQXAQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=
   %22essays+in+musicology%22&source=bl&ots=ITEFvN0Hii&sig=iIvdnoOEE_CRl_u
   bQ_wRLOiSuyQ&hl=en&ei=cRD4TOSQMY2dOrX-kbkI&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=resul
   t&resnum=1&ved=0CBEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
   The link is on google books and is about hornpipes, but may help
   towards a part answer to your question, have a look at the book "essays
   in musicology ---page 150"
   regards
   Dave Singleton
   On 11/25/2010 6:50 PM, Richard York wrote:

   I was listening recently to a trio playing 17th/18th Cent. divisions on
   La Folia on the radio, and was struck afresh by how similar are some of
   the things appearing in the nsp variations.
   (And yet different.)[Special aside for "Round the Horn" listeners :)  ]
   Divisions on viols or recorders were normally played with at least a
   bass, and/or a harpsichord or whatever, and our variations/divisions
   must come out of the same culture in the first place, whether it's
   later a parallel or a parent-child type development to get to where
   Peacock's sets arrived.
   So, given that pipes are generally thought of as a solo instrument,
   (correct me if not!) do we know at what stage of development the
   divorce from the continuo or ground bass instrument actually happened?
   Assuming it did.
   Do the smallpipes with their variations repertoire first appear having
   already made the musical separation, or was there any practice of
   playing them over a ground?
   (Please note, this *is* on topic!)
   Best wishes,
   Richard.
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   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   3. http://www.avg.com/

[NSP] Re: BBC Radio bagpipes programme

[Dave S]

   bill, i programmed it on satellite at 15:30 european time -bbc r7
   ciao
   dave
   On 11/23/2010 2:18 PM, Bill wrote:



Bill . . . are you looking at the correct schedule? This is on BBC Radio 7,
not Radio Scotland

Francis, My first message quotes the url for BBC Radio7 schedules for today.
The  bagpipes prog you quote isn't on the online schedule.

So  then I looked online again at Radio Scotland's Tom Morton prog which is
on in the afternoon after 2 but the bagpipes thing you mention isn't on it.

 Now reading my (hard copy) Radio Times -yes your prog is listed  so the
online BBC schedule is at variance with the Radio Times!
Bill




This is what the BBC site states:


Next on:

Today, 14:30 on BBC Radio 7

Synopsis


Tom Morton investigates Pipes and Politics - from Northern Ireland to

Galicia via Scotland and Northumbria. From January 2004.



Francis





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[NSP] Re: BBC Radio bagpipes programme

[Dave S]

   Francis, many thanks for the tip -- I don't often get to see the radio
   times !!
   Dave Singleton
   On 11/23/2010 9:57 AM, Francis Wood wrote:

BBC Radio 7 is broadcasting 'The Secret History of Bagpipes' at 14.30 today

Described as 'Tom Morton investigates Pipes and Politics',  this item may be of
interest to NSP players.

Francis



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[NSP] Re: Where hast though been all the night?

[Dave S]

    Original Message 

   Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: Where hast though been all the night?
  Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 18:33:22 +0100
  From: Dave S [1]
To: Matt Seattle [2]

   Hey Matt,
   carry on for me -- it's well worth the bandwidth, plus we get to see
   some new works in progress
   ciao
   Dave S
   On 11/4/2010 5:56 PM, Matt Seattle wrote:

   Before you read on - is anyone besides John Gibbons, Julia Say and
   myself interested in this? Seriously, please say so, I'd like to know,
   because if not, we can carry on the discussion privately.

   If anyone thinks the three of us are crazy, I would like to point out
   that I have been crazy for longer than them.

   I have refrained from reading Julia's and John's versions till I made
   mine public. I was very taken with this tune at the time of the second
   Bewick edition (1998) and used to play it a lot. I am pleased that
   (two) others also enjoy it. I note that it received zero attention
   until Richard York's hurdy-gurdy query, which is a sobering thought
   regarding the benefits of publication.

   You may need to add line breaks, I have just pasted my text as is.

   X:1

   T:Where Hast Thou Been All The Night?

   C:R Reavely ms (strs 1-3)

   C:M Seattle (strs 5-8) Aug 1998

   M:6/8

   R:Air

   K:G

   e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B>cd|dgB c2e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B>cd|dgf d2:|]

   [|:e|dgf dgB|dgB c2e|dgf dgB|dgf d2e|

   dgf dgB|dgB c2e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B>cd|dgf d2:|]

   [|:e|dB/c/d/B/ gB/c/d/B/|dB/c/d/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|dB/c/d/B/ gB/c/d/B/|dgf
   d2e|

   dB/c/d/B/ gB/c/d/B/|dB/c/d/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B>cd|dgf d2:|]

   [|:e|dGe/f/ gGB/c/|dGA/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|dGe/f/ gGB/c/|dgf d2e|

   dGe/f/ gGB/c/|dGA/B/ c3/2d/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B>cd|dgf d2:|]

   [|:e|d/c/B/A/B/G/ B/A/B/c/d/G/|d/c/B/A/B/G/ c/B/c/d/e/G/|d/c/B/A/B/G/
   B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|]

   [|:e|d/G/g/G/f/G/ d/e/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/B/ c/B/c/d/e/G/|d/G/g/G/f/G/
   d/e/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/c/ d2e|

   d/G/g/G/f/G/ d/e/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/B/ c/B/c/d/e/G/|d/c/B/A/B/G/
   B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|]

   [|:e|d/B/G/B/d/B/ g/B/G/B/d/B/|d/B/G/B/d/B/ cG/c/e/c/|d/B/G/B/d/B/
   g/B/G/B/d/B/|dgf d2e|

   d/B/G/B/d/B/ g/B/G/B/d/B/|d/B/G/B/d/B/ cG/c/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/
   B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|]

   [|:e/|d/G/A/B/c/d/ g/f/d/c/B/c/|d/G/A/B/c/d/ =f/e/c/d/e/c/|d/G/A/B/c/d/
   g/f/d/c/B/c/|d/G/g/f/d/c/ d2e|

   d/G/A/B/c/d/ g/f/d/c/B/c/|d/G/A/B/c/d/ =f/e/c/d/e/c/|d/c/B/A/B/G/
   B/A/B/c/d/G/|dgf d2:|]

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[NSP] Re: small pipes simulator

[Dave S]

Hi Julia,

Could you send me a zip fiile with all the bits ?  this is right up my 
street, I used to work in 6502 & 65c12 code. I may be able to set up and 
emulation for it.


ciao

Dave

Julia Say wrote:
On 20 Apr 2010, neil smith wrote: 

  

   I don't know whether any readers know (or care)



Yes to both. 

  

 Forster Charlton devised a computer
   program for simulating the sound of the nsp and sold it to the BBC.



It still exists, in the NPS archives. Unfortunately the equipment on which it would 
work is long obsolete. If anyone has access to a working BBC micro, and the time, 
inclination, and programming skills...


  

   Forster would occasionally emerge from the
   kitchen where he'd be concocting some kind of dubious stew 



I've heard about those, from both Dave McQuade, and Harry before he left us.
Some things one is mercifully spared.

  

bash a button on his keyboard, thus setting off a perfect
   rendition of some infernally difficult tune of his such as Harry's
   Rant.



Infernally interesting, surely, rather like some of yours, which also  have finger 
traps for the unwary in places!


Julia



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[NSP] Re: morpeth museum site

[Dave S]

Hi Tim,

it should be without, but then yesterday was once today, tomorrow will 
turn into today -- in time 

Dave
tim rolls BT wrote:

Hi Dave,

Would that be today's world, rather than todays' world?

Tim
member, Apostrophe's preservation league.
- Original Message ----- From: "Dave S" 
To: "Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site" 
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:22 AM
Subject: [NSP] morpeth museum site



Hello all,

Can some kind person pass on a more meaningful, corrected text for 
the Chantry to Ann -- or is this the level that passes for English in 
todays' world.


extracted home page text follows:-
*
Housed in Morpeth's medieval Chantry buildings since 1987, the 
Bagpipe Museum his home to a unique collection , the foundation of 
which is the bagpipe collection of William Alfred Cocks (1892 - 
1971), a clockmaker from Ryton, near Newcastle.**
The pipes collection belongs to the Society of Antiquaries of 
Newcastle upon Tyne, and the Museum is supported by Castle Morpeth 
Borough Council.*




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[NSP] Re: Smallpipes Simulator

[Dave S]

Hi Anthony,
Don't miss the idea that one can clearly hear the beat note between 
mis-tuned drones with the Saymulator. This does actually give a target, 
and knowing that pressure controls all, in the real world, may well help 
beginners to start to use their ears.


ciao
Dave

Anthony Robb wrote:

   Hellos apiece
   This is an intriguing idea but I can't help wondering whether simulator
   might be too strong a claim? In 35 years of piping tuition, not only in
   the UK but also Germany, NZ and USA, I've clocked up over 5000
   tutee-hrs of experience and the first (also main and universal)
   stumbling block with our instrument is keeping the bag well-filled and
   maintaining a steady pressure.
   A smallpipes simulator that does not have this as part of its make up
   is a bit like having a flight simulator that only does the taxiing bit.
   There may be plans to provide under-arm pressure sensitive pads to
   simulate this main difficulty but until they are available perhaps a
   more accurate description would be in order?
   Cheers
   Anthony


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[NSP] morpeth museum site

[Dave S]

Hello all,

Can some kind person pass on a more meaningful, corrected text for the 
Chantry to Ann -- or is this the level that passes for English in 
todays' world.


extracted home page text follows:-
*
Housed in Morpeth's medieval Chantry buildings since 1987, the Bagpipe 
Museum his home to a unique collection , the foundation of which is the 
bagpipe collection of William Alfred Cocks (1892 - 1971), a clockmaker 
from Ryton, near Newcastle.**
The pipes collection belongs to the Society of Antiquaries of Newcastle 
upon Tyne, and the Museum is supported by Castle Morpeth Borough Council.*




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[NSP] Re: Open competition tunes

[Dave S]

Hi Julia,

don't worry too much -- I only  just remembered that I asked 15 years 
ago !!!

I would like to get some ideas of the set tunes
e.g the set tune for the open class NSP soc 1993 was Scott Skinner's 
compliments to Dr McDonald - so if it's a no go ok

but if there are any memories out there it would be mighty appreciated

Dave


Julia Say wrote:
On 5 Apr 2010, Dave S wrote: 
 
  
Does anyone have a list of the open tunes and the year they were used 
for competition (where) going back 50 years ?



Dave:

Do you mean the "set" tunes - ones which were compulsory for every competitor?
Goodness knows what I said 15 years ago - I'm having trouble with 15 minutes 
ago!

Not all competitions had set tunes, and even for those that did, I think there's 
unlikely to be a continuous record. I doubt if there's even a record of whether 
they had set tunes or not at different venues.


Finding the info for the NPS comps would entail reading through the last 50 years 
of minutes and seeing how many years the discussions include a record of set tunes.


Free choice comps would be down to individuals who've jotted this info down pooling 
their resources to get some sort of record, which is a tall order. But if anyone 
wants to take it on..


Julia


  




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[NSP] Open competition tunes

[Dave S]

Hi,

Does anyone have a list of the open tunes and the year they were used 
for competition (where) going back 50 years ?
I asked Julia maybe 15 years ago but she didn't have time to follow up 
on it.
She mentioned that she had some in abc so if they exist I would most 
appreciate it


Dave Singleton



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[NSP] [Re: Holy/Holey Halfpenny]

[Dave S]

X-Mozilla-Keys:
Message-ID: <172-4b79822c.6020...@pt.lu>
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:19:40 +0100
From: Dave S 
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Matt Seattle 
Subject: Re: [NSP] Holy/Holey Halfpenny
References: <215-97e9609c1002150545n248a3047s88ddf5b872d1...@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <215-97e9609c1002150545n248a3047s88ddf5b872d1...@mail.gmail.com>
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Hi Matt

mirriam-websters online

Main Entry: *hol·ey*
Pronunciation: \ˈhō-lē\
Function: /adjective/
Date: 13th century

*:* having holes



Matt Seattle wrote:
>I'm currently putting what I hope are the finishing touches to the new
>edition of Bewick's Pipe Tunes. I've reverted to Robert's "Holy
>Halfpenny" title , corroborated by another early local source, rather
>than the later "Holey", and written "The significance of either
>interpretation is unclear". Is it? Does anyone actually KNOW, rather
>than have an interesting theory?
>
>Cheers
>
>Matt
>
>--
>
>
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> 
>
>
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>


--

[NSP] Re: Pitch and kipper boxes

[Dave S]

Sorry missed me B didn I

Dave S wrote:

Hi,

arry mentioned "between the nut and the bridge" OK but if the nut gets 
tight does the pitch go up or down?


ciao

Dave



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[NSP] Pitch and kipper boxes

[Dave S]

Hi,

arry mentioned "between the nut and the bridge" OK but if the nut gets 
tight does the pitch go up or down?


ciao

Dave



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[NSP] Re: Mr. Bewick, Rats and Inverted Bags

[Dave S]

Mr Bewick must have just visited Barrow-in -Fairness, where the wind 
blows hard enough
to turn dogs inside out, so they look like surgical gloves ( according 
to Mr Mike Harding)


Francis Wood wrote:

Mr Bewick, the ingenious wood-engraver, has put on record a fact regarding rats 
nearly as mystical as any of the above. He alleges that ' the skins of such of 
them as have been devoured in their holes [for they are cannibals to a sad 
extent] have frequently been found curiously turned inside out, every part of 
them being completely inverted, even to the ends of the toes.'

(from 'The Book of Days, A Miscellany of Popular Antiquities in Connection with the 
 Calendar, Edited by R. Chambers, Parts 10,12. Philadelphia. jJ.B. Lippencott & 
Co.')



See . . .  it's so easy that even rats can do it! 
I have no idea why the rats practised this skill. Perhaps a consequence of their unfortunate fascination with piping, as the sad events in Hamelin will demonstrate.


Francis




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[NSP] Re: bag shape

[Dave S]

Hi Richard,
Other slight annoyances occuring when messing with bags/neck is 
"resonance" or a change in the resistance to airflow.
Some bag/neck shapes give rise to top A and top B sounding flat at which 
point the unsuspecting will start chopping or scraping reeds -  BEWARE


Dave Singleton

Richard York wrote:

I'd welcome comments/advice on nsp bag shape, please.

There's the conventional shape, and now I learn there's the tear-drop 
shape.
I've been playing other (non Scottish) bagpipes for quite a long time, 
with various shaped bags, from medieval/renaissance large tear drop, 
held more in front of the body, to nsp-like but bigger on Jon Swayne D 
border pipes, and have got used to & comfortable with them.
I'm still finding my way on nsp's... I suspect this is a life-long 
state... but find that after some 10 or so minutes of playing I'm 
getting a restricted left hand movement, as my arm's getting pressure 
from the bulge of the bag against my forearm where it restricts the 
blood flow or something; this is a problem I don't get with my other 
sets. I've tried varying my arm position/bag position/drone 
angle/position of jaw/general earth energy and leyline alignment etc, 
but  haven't yet cracked the problem.


It seems logical to expect that the tear-drop shape, with most of the 
bag further back under the arm, is going to leave my forearm more 
relaxed and less pressured.
But until you've tried anything you don't know, and I'd like to hear 
from anyone who has, please, either positive or negative experience of 
this shape.


With thanks,
Richard.



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[NSP] Re: the Guardian today....

[Dave S]

Hi Anita,
not being a Grauniad reader I have to guess the BAE is BEE Arable 
Entrepreneurs or some such biz


Dave Singleton

Anita Evans wrote:
We're in trouble - according to a letter in the Guardian newspaper, 
BAE is 'racing to capture the domestic UK drones market'


Anita



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[NSP] Re: Not Piping

[Dave S]

Hi Anthony,

Windz 7  does not yet have sufficient drivers or debugging to be fully 
stable, and it will take a while for the third parties to write the low 
level drivers, when and if they get access to the system hooks.
I suggest you boot from a win xp non-install (boot sys cd) cd or linux 
non-install cd and load the software you need via usb into a memory 
diskyou can delete it all by switching off. Or maybe  get all portable 
software on USB to do your work.


Lots of luck with ver 7 or just have patience

cheers
Dave


Anthony Robb wrote:

   Both ide and sata harddrives are compatable.
   Therefore you may have a problem without a second internal harddrive.
   Adrian
   Thanks for that Adrian.
   I've also been told that fire-wire cards other than Texas instrument
   ones can be a problem.
   I think I might put the laptop idea on hold for a month or two!!
   Anthony

   --


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[NSP] Re: What to call youself

[Dave S]

Hi Ernie,

Seasons greetings;  how about Smallpiper -- Mystery / Mysterious smallpiper

ciao

Dave S



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[NSP] Re: musette

[Dave S]

Hello Colin,
You are spot on :-) but it was the "wedding night" finale --- where 
things were a little in tune, a little frenetic, then syncope then built 
to a crescendo and finally resolved into gentle snores -- great fun and 
well played I thought!


Dave S


rosspi...@aol.com wrote:

Hi Phlip,
The recital was fine and I think the tuning that Francis was complaing 
about was due to the last pieces being played in the tonic minor where 
the tuning can go off unless mean tuning has been attempted on the 
chanter. The final groans were possibly meant to be a humorous 
indication of the piper collapsing after drinking too much at the 
wedding.

Colin R


-Original Message-
From: Philip Gruar 
To: Francis Wood 
CC: Dartmouth NPS 
Sent: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:53
Subject: [NSP] Re: musette


Hi Francis 
 
The musette seems fairly out of tune. By 5.45 the pitch is rapidly 
losing >altitude, finally crashing at 6.30. 
 
I didn't listen that far! As I said, all those Hotteterre pieces tend 
to sound the same, and yes, "hard driven" is just the phrase for it - 
which is another reason I didn't stick it out all the way to 5.45, let 
alone 6.30. 
A more delicate touch on musette and harpsichord, plus a bass viol to 
balance the bass line and it would have been so much better. 
I listened to a couple of clips of the Loibner recording and have to 
say I prefer the Palladians for sheer verve and fun. Loibner and co. 
sound very refined which although probably what the original players 
might have aimed for, does lose a lot of the rustic joie-de-vivre. 
Without that, one might as well have a "straight" baroque rendering of 
the original Vivaldi - or even a non-straight rendering, as so 
brilliantly done by Red Priest. 
Philip  
 
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[NSP] Re: Message to Chris Birch and Dave S

[Dave S]

Yup -- that's the one 

beat me to it -- I was still looking for Jul's
Thanks

Dave S

Dru Brooke-Taylor wrote:

Is the tune on these links it?

http://lb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feierwon
or
http://lb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:De_Feierwon.png

It's completely unfamiliar to me.

Dru



On 25 Nov 2009, at 14:28, neil smith wrote:



   Does either of you (or indeed anyone else) have the dots to De
   Feierwon? I know it was published years ago in Jul Christophory(?)'s
   book Mir schwatze Letzeburgesch but I've long since lost it. It 
occurs

   to me it would make a grand tune for a piping ensemble. Cheers, Neil
 __

   Add other email accounts to Hotmail in 3 easy steps. [1]Find out how.
   --

References

   1. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/186394593/direct/01/


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[NSP] Overlooked

[Dave S]

Hi Anthony,
I think John encapsulated it very well --- and further, we are all 
overlooking/forgetting the vocal score all the dance band musicians, not 
forgetting yourself, use; the vocal score being an ear roasting by one 
of the guys saying " we don't play THAT.. we play it like this ." or 
am I mistaken in thinking that all the top musicians play(ed) with like 
minded/musicked people never corrected vocally a tune that did not run 
to their ideas.

mFG
Dave S



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[NSP] Re: schei greiss

[Dave S]

Hi Anthony,

This gives a perfect example,  the letters you know  but not in the 
order that I set them.
You attempted a joke that some may find amusing, probably because your 
imagination could not crack the code. Perhaps this will soften your 
hardline stance on written things, you would have to be in Luxembourg 
for a couple of years to get to grips with its' language, but if you had 
a set of written crib cards it would be possible for you to start on the 
language from the comfort of your home.
Now, to address your standpoint on dots, we need audio clues to help us 
try to imitate the sounds and eventually they stick in the audio 
soundbank. I do so agree, but not to the extent that you propose. Modern 
(new research) concert instrumentalists, starting as children now learn 
their instrument by ear for the first few years, when they have learnt 
the instrument and some of its' possibilities, they are introduced to 
the dots and in so doing create a happy medium and a happy player.
In recent mails Tom Clough was reported to have said that Thomas Todd 
forbade him playing the melodyof the Barrington, he had first to learn 
the exercises (Julia; are there any random exercises kicking about?) -- 
some of us need the dots to see the exercises as we can't get to learn 
from an expert, there are not enough to go round. You know from your 
experience that it takes a lot of time to imprint a melody into the 
audiobank(brain). The older you get the longer it can take, some are 
lucky in that they already have enough to go on  and merely refresh old 
memories, I envy  their good fortune.
We need the dots as memory helpers, us mortals wot don't concert or barn 
dance etc.
We know we are mortals, so don't knock what you don't have the 
background to comprehend, you had it all around you all your life, us 
out here ain't got it and probably won't get it. I will try to be like 
the Philharmonic, they know their instrument, they have practiced, and 
they use their music for clues and memory assists, but they all play the 
conductors interpretation of the piece, emotion, speed, warts and all. I 
am still trying to learn about my pipes but for me it is a slow, 
fascinating process I hope will never end. I love them --- and without 
NSP dots I would be playing Boismortier, Corrette, Lullay, Rameau, 
Zweitackters, alouette, Himmelsmaerch, Mozart, etc etc



Tra 4 now ( confirmed dots supporter)

Dave S   (
Anthony Robb wrote:

Dave
I did have one but the wheels fell off.
Anthony

--- On *Mon, 2/11/09, Dave S //* wrote:


From: Dave S 
Subject: [NSP] schei greiss
To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Monday, 2 November, 2009, 7:23 PM

Wunnerbar eppes vun déi schéi sprooch vun hei ze léiesen
kriit's d'och schéi greiss vun Useldéng

Dave S



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[NSP] schei greiss

[Dave S]

Wunnerbar eppes vun déi schéi sprooch vun hei ze léiesen
kriit's d'och schéi greiss vun Useldéng

Dave S



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[NSP] Re: The Power of Positive Thinking

[Dave S]

Hi Francis, isn't that todays' paradox -- a  working party -- starts ok 
but swiftly declines in effectiveness until as the percentage get higher 
things degenerate into rest, monotone and finally a theoretical silence 
-- with the odd ( generally very odd ) blowout


good one ---

Dave

Francis Wood wrote:
Changing the course of language is a slow and uncertain path. Before 
anyone  suggests that a working party be set up to make 
recommendations, let me say immediately that I do not think this would 
be a good idea.


With apologies,

Francis



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[NSP] Re: musical form

[Dave S]

Responsorial ?

rosspi...@aol.com wrote:
Has anyone got the name of the musical form of the question and answer 
type that is the basis for sea shanties and our local song 'Dolly Ah' 
and more interestingly the two pipe tunes 'Lang Stayed Away' and 
'Highland Laddie'(first two parts) in Peacock's Tunes. This is also 
the same as the 'waulking songs' from the Hebrides which can lead to 
great extensions of originality in the A and C parts of the A B C D form.
Sounds as though it is an old pre industrial revolution form  maybe 
linked to dance in some way.

Colin R



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[NSP] Re: Piping

[Dave S]

Thanks Tony,

Nice -- but watch out for the young ladies left wrist -- it's a prime 
candidate for RSI

maybe a new fatter bag ???
regards
Dave

Anthony Robb wrote:

   Here's a bit choyt for the bairns.
   [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOg93tdh0Ms
   Anthony

   --

References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOg93tdh0Ms


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[NSP] [Re: Tune title spelling]

[Dave S]

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MIME-Version: 1.0
To: julia@nspipes.co.uk, nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: Re: [NSP] Tune title spelling
References: <211-4a8b18e6.9698.28fc...@julia.say.nspipes.co.uk>
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Hi Julia,

here's one ---


  Tune Req: Ganglat Fran Mockfjard
  <http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid309&messages>

Gärdebylåten appears in this book on the same page as another popular
Swedish Tune Äppelbolåten (/Appelbolaten/). I also have Nick Barber's
"English Choice" *.*

Julia Say wrote:
> Can anyone tell me where the letters with dots over and suchlike
> should go in the tune title "APPELBOLATEN" (it's Swedish).
>
> I have it handwritten, twice and differently, from various sources,
> and I don't trust either rendition.
>
> Thanks
> Julia
>
>
>
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> 
>
>
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Hi Julia,

here's one ---
http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid309&messages"
 class="l" onmousedown="return clk(this.href,'','','res','5','')">Tune
Req: Ganglat Fran Mockfjard
Gärdebylåten appears in this book on the same page as another popular
Swedish Tune Äppelbolåten (Appelbolaten). I also have Nick
Barber's "English Choice" .

Julia Say wrote:

  Can anyone tell me where the letters with dots over and suchlike
should go in the tune title "APPELBOLATEN" (it's Swedish).

I have it handwritten, twice and differently, from various sources,
and I don't trust either rendition.

Thanks
Julia



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--

[NSP] Re: Tune title spelling

[Dave S]

   Hi Julia,
   here's one ---

  [1]Tune Req: Ganglat Fran Mockfjard

   Gaerdebylaaten appears in this book on the same page as another popular
   Swedish Tune Aeppelbolaaten (Appelbolaten). I also have Nick Barber's
   "English Choice" .
   Julia Say wrote:

Can anyone tell me where the letters with dots over and suchlike
should go in the tune title "APPELBOLATEN" (it's Swedish).

I have it handwritten, twice and differently, from various sources,
and I don't trust either rendition.

Thanks
Julia



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References

   1. http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=11309&messages=18
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   3. http://www.avg.com/

[NSP] Re: Whos list is this? Re: Northumbria Pipe Course

[Dave S]

Hi Wayne, How are you doing ? Still playing lute ? and decrypting early 
music --


Thanks for the work and good wishes for everything --

Dave

wayne cripps wrote:


Hi Folks -

Thanks to Richard for reminding people that this list, the "dartmouth" 
list,
is not affiliated with the Northumbrian Pipers' Society in any way. It 
is intended
for discussions of Northumbrian smallpipes, and not other bagpipes. In 
the twelve

years that it has been running I have never seen an advertisement for
either a course or an instrument that I have found objectionable.

Richard is one of the few people posting to this list whom I have 
actually
met. I have never been to Newcastle, and the pipers that I have met 
personally
are not part of this mail list. So it is sometimes frustrating dealing 
with
list members who may be excellent musicians but are poor "net 
citizens" who

are carrying "in" jokes and arguments to this list.

By the way, although this mail list is hosted on Dartmouth College
networks and equipment, it is not in any way affiliated with the College.

Wayne


Begin forwarded message:


From: "Richard Shuttleworth" 
Date: August 13, 2009 4:51:59 PM EDT
To: , , "colin" 


Cc: 
Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places 
available


Dear Colin Hill,

The NSP dartmouth list has nothing to do with the Northumbrian 
Pipers' Society other than the fact that many Society members post to 
this list. It is run out of Dartmouth College by a very patient and 
long-suffering chap called Wayne. Anyone can join the list and post 
any piping relevant topic that they feel would be of interest to 
other list members.


Richard

Colin (Hill) wrote:

Can someone please enlighten me on something as I am obviously too 
old and doddering to understand.
Is this particular list an "open" list for matters pertaining to 
piping in general or only as it concerns the Society?
For the life of me, I can't see the problem with self-advertising 
provided that it is to do with piping.
Presumably, If I had heard of a piping course and then written a 
post "hey pipers, there's a course being held 
at...". That would be piping news surely and quite 
acceptable?
Please explain the difference to me between a course held by the 
Society and one held by an individual as far as this (open) list is 
concerned (if it is open).
Many people on this list are not members of the Society (hence the 
opening of the "dirty laundry" alternative list).
Please inform us as to whether this list is to discuss piping in all 
it's aspects or only those aspects that the Society have a hand in.

I think we need this clarification.
If it is, indeed, NOT an open list but one being run for and on 
behalf of the Society, I think that needs pointing out 
notwithstanding the fact that the Society "runs" it and benefits 
from it (by spreading the word that it exists).
If it IS a Society bases list only, maybe a change of name should be 
considered.
Again, if it's an open list, maybe we shouldn't have details of the 
Society's contributions either (to make it fair).

You can't have it both ways.
An open list or a NPS list?
That would, I think, help many of us to understand what is 
acceptable and what is not.

If it IS a specific NPS list, maybe it should be restricted to members.
Maybe a truly open list (such as the English Bagpipes list on Yahoo) 
should be started as an alternative to those who wish to discuss ALL 
aspects of piping and where the news of a course on piping would be 
accepted as news regardless of who was running it?


Colin Hill
(Life Member of NPS since around 1972/3)
- Original Message - From: 
To: 
Cc: 
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 4:53 PM
Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places 
available




No problem as you are doing it as a group activity and there is no
conflict with the NPS who I am sure welcomes it.
CR


-Original Message-
From: Neil Tavernor 
To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:09
Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places
available


And if (nsp dartmouth) is only for material sanctioned by the NPS, why
did we need (NPS discussion).

And can I advertise the Manchester group Pipers' day (3rd October) run
and risk taken by individuals (no financial support from the NPS) on
the (NPS discusion) list. Well I'm going to anyway.

Neil

- Original Message - From: "Francis Wood"

To: "Dartmouth NPS" 
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:56 PM
Subject: [NSP] Re: Northumbria Pipe Course 11-16 October - Places
available

Oh, for goodness' sake!

Francis

On 12 Aug 2009, at 12:41, rosspi...@aol.com wrote:



I wonder if this advert for a privately run course is allowed on this

> list. This is a course that is not run by the NPS but for the benefit
of > the person who is running it who although taking the risk and time
to > organise it is also taking any profit that may arise.

CR

-Original Message- From: suzefisher

@

[NSP] list stuff

[Dave S]

yup well said,   both Colin and Philip

It does seem that the tension, verve and perspicacity have dwindled 
somewhat, what we need is someone to put a bit of dino in the - list 
again


ds

Philip Gruar wrote:

Well said "colin" (Hill, of course)
I have been reading this list (both lists) over the past month with a 
growing sense of detatchment and loss of interest. I wonder if I can 
really be bothered to open any new message, and very likely read yet 
more griping and point-scoring, or whether just to hit the delete 
button, and send NPS and NSP alike to join all the other spam.
We have had the endless "what is proper piping?" debate yet again 
(have the Taliban got an internet discussion list about true Islam, I 
wonder? If so it must be very similar), continuing point-scoring about 
the presidency, about the society "rules" or lack of them, pipe-makers 
and pipe-making books and what the society has/hasn't/should/shouldn't 
have done about them, and now this latest extraordinary outburst.
The suggested distinction between NPS discussion and NSP (Dartmouth) 
list isn't really being observed, often because the subject matter 
applies to both. Personally, I don't bother to look closely at the 
acronym to see what list a posting is meant for, I still read them all 
- and I'm sure most of us who have subscribed to both do the same.
I used to follow the discussions with interest, and often contribute 
to them, but the level of debate recently (with a few honourable 
exceptions) has sunk so low I'm tempted to unsubscribe from both 
lists. Letting my Society subsciption lapse sometimes seems like a 
good idea too.
Please can we have a Summer recess, or a moratorium or something, and 
all come back refreshed and nicer people, ready to discuss piping and 
its music tolerantly and positively?
Can we also drop the (failed?) experiment of the NPS discussion list. 
Some of us ordinary members really don't care any more about the 
Society's internal battles. Just fight it out among yourselves and let 
us know the result by old-fashioned snail-mail newsletter when all the 
blood has been cleaned up.

Philip






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[NSP] Re: Transposing etc

[Dave S]

Hi John,
How's about C# .net and Dflat (Dr Dobb's Callisthenics & Orthodontics) 
the former for the pro's and the latter for the con's ...
Of course the pro's KNOW exactly what we must do, how we should do it 
and all the other arguements are mere piffle and squeak ---


ciao
Dave

gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote:

   Is there any software available which will input interminable arguments
   about the Pipers' Society rulebook, and output intelligent  discussion
   about the instrument and its music?



   John

   --


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[NSP] Re: Peacock

[Dave S]

Hi Ross,
Thanks very much for the thought !!

very useful

Dave Singleton

Ross Anderson wrote:
I've scanned Peacock and put it online at http://www.piob.info. 


I worked from Francis Wood's copy, for the loan of which I'm very
grateful. I'm sure Google Books would have got round to it eventually
and I hope that the Society will eventually reprint it in the
traditional size so it'll fit conveniently in my pipe case. But here
at least is a version to be going on with.

Enjoy!

Ross Anderson



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[NSP] Re: re notes v. ear

[Dave S]

Richard Evans wrote:

Philip Gruar wrote:

I'm sure everybody with a so-called "classical" music training here 
(and jazz or whatever) - i.e. anyone for whom the purely mechanical 
act of reading written music is completely second nature, does the 
reading without consciously thinking about doing it. 


This is the basis of my problem of course- no formal musical training 
whatsoever!

Too late now methinks.
Cheers
Richard



Hi -- one or two cents worth,
No one has so far mention the fact that classical musicians usually have 
an ally waving a stick and hands giving them the colour, speeds and 
breathing life into the piece they are playing -- namely his 
interpretation of what the COMPOSER wished to convey from the dots, with 
all its' written dynamics - sadly unavailable on most bagpipes -
so stop trying to put down one side or the other, we have, do and will 
continue to have two separate methodologies-- they both have a valid 
raison d'etre both supply a much needed service and occasionally one or 
the other crosses over and makes a splash



Vive la difference vive la musique

Dave S



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[NSP] Re: Peacock’s Tunes Facsimile

[Dave S]

I,m sure it's online somewhere Francis, but my question is who actually 
learnt these tunes from the tradition --- ie from someone who learnt 
them from someone whose knew someone  who learnt from Peacock ? do we 
have anyone -- if so could they please set up a master class


Dave S (Tongue In Cheek)

Francis Wood wrote:

   I too have a copy of the Peacocks Tunes Facsimile, 'falling apart but
   treasured as Matt has said, after nearly 30 years of use. Second-hand
   copies of this are hard to find and although the later NPS edition in
   standard format is extremely useful, the facsimile has its own
   particular interest. Perhaps the NPS might consider re-issuing this Old
   Testament of piping one day.

   Francis
   --


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[NSP] Re: this list is safer now

[Dave S]

Is it really this dead after the what me mail ? or has a lurgy got settled

Dave S

Wayne Cripps wrote:

I should also add that the NSP mail list can no longer
transmit computer viruses.


 Wayne



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[NSP] Re: Alternative/extra NPS discussion list

[Dave S]

That's a bugger,  now us out here won't get to see them over there doin 
it to the rest over wherever


TIC
Dave

Julia Say wrote:
On 29 May 2009, Francis Wood wrote: 

  

Some further clarification would be useful. As I read the message, the
 list is to discuss NPS matters, i.e. issues pertaining specifically
to  the Society (NPS) rather than Northumbrian piping items (NSP). 



The new discussion list has been set up specifically to discuss 
society (NPS) matters, and reduce the annoyance to those who do not 
wish to be involved.
General matters of piping interest may well also occur in the course 
of discussion, but we are not trying to supplant this long 
established dartmouth list. Rather it is an addition.


It is open to all NPS members whether they are on this list or not, 
so if you have friends who might be interested, feel free to pass on 
the instructions.
 Info on how to subscribe will appear in the next society newsletter 
as well.


The new discussion list is a stopgap measure, pending Tim, I and 
others getting our heads round other faster forms of communication 
with members, and the establishment of a bulletin board type scenario 
where members can pick & choose which threads they read.


Hope this helps
JUlia



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[NSP] Re: Style/dots

[Dave S]

Hi Anthony, let me quote a passage showing that perhaps todays tradition 
started from the dots  and yes I agree  "Keep your ears open"


ciao
Dave
A LETTER TO
HIS GRACE THE DUKE OF NORTHUMBERLAND ON THE
ANCIENT NORTHUMBRIAN MUSIC,
ITS COLLECTION AND PRESERVATION.
BY THOMAS DOUBLEDAY.


*' Nor rough nor barren are the windings ways
Of hoar Antiquity, but strewn with flow'rs."
Thomas Warton.
LONDON :
NEWCASTLE-ON-TYNE : ANDREW REID, 40, PILGRIM-STREET.
1862.

Such are the relative positions of the old, natural, and the
modem, mathematical music. It seems clear that this posi-
tion can never be altered. To expect a simple expressive
melody to be appreciated, or even listened to, amidst the
harmonious din of contending orchestras and oratorios, that
count performers by himdreds, would be to expect a miracle.
The Ancient Music, then, must remain in those "harbours of
refuge" amongst the mountains of Northumberland, Scotland,
Ireland, Beam, Corsica, Sicily, the Tyrol, Calabria, and
Spain, to which it has been driven ; until amidst the muta-
tions of society it may, probably, at length, finally disappear
and be lost to the world, unless noted down, collected, and
put on record.
Such a fate I have long anticipated for the Ancient Music
of Northumberland, which, being less in volume, much sim-
pler, and only an offshoot of the music of Caledonia, may be
expected soonest to perish. When, therefore, I learned, as
I did some months since, that this subject had attracted the
attention of the learned Society of Antiquaries of the town
of Newcastle and its vicinity, my gratification was as great
and sincere as it was unexpected. I had, in years gone past,
sometimes dreamed of venturing upon the undertaking of
collecting it single-handed. It was but a dream. A brief con-
sideration was amply enough to convince me that to atchieve
success in such a quest an expenditure of time and money
must be involved far beyond that which any individual in a
private station could, for such an object, be expected to incur.
When, therefore, I became acquainted with the fact that
the Society ol Antiquaries had taken the first step, by the
appointment of a sub-committee, for the purpose of taking
such measures for the collection and preservation of those
interesting musical rehcs as might seem to be most efficient,



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[NSP] Re: F.a.o. Francis & others

[Dave S]

I sincerely hope this is not meant to have the xenophobic overtones that 
can be read between the lines ---  there are many avid fans of NSP who 
have no chance of getting to listen to the present interpretation of the 
tradition -- they only have cd ,mp3, etc surely this is not tradition.
Jack Armstrong appeared to have tuned out and away from the tradition, 
and revealed a surprisingly modish way of playing, but unfortuneatly, 
unless the dead pipers can supply us with more of this it is lost to the 
tradition --- the dots allow the tradition to be recovered when  insular 
players die off without training a disciple -


flame on
Dave Singleton


Anthony Robb wrote:

   Hello Francis
I am well aware of Colin's abrasive nature and have
   disagreed with him over details of the repertoire and other issues, but
   he is a rare beast in that he understands that we are dealing with a
   fundamentally oral tradition here. A tradition that needs to be learnt
   through 90% listening and 10% playing. If the dots are used they need
   to be informed by true insight into the nuances displayed within the
   spectrum of  traditional players. It seems that this approach is not
   fully appreciated by all in authority in our Society and that worries
   quite a few of us.
   As aye
   Anthony


   --- On Tue, 26/5/09, Francis Wood  wrote:

 From: Francis Wood 
 Subject: Re: [NSP] F.a.o. Francis & others
 To: "Anthony Robb" 
 Cc: "Dartmouth NPS" 
 Date: Tuesday, 26 May, 2009, 7:54 PM

   On 26 May 2009, at 16:53, Anthony Robb wrote:
   >   Mmmma| rather harsh Francis.
   Hello Anthony,
   I'm not sure I've really tried 'harsh' . . .
   'Robust' might do quite well. I'd add 'fair'. We'll probably not agree
   on that one.
   Francis
   P. S.  I'll leave it to anyone else to respond point by point to
   Anthony's mail if they have a mind to do so. I'd advise adherence to
   known facts, awareness that the issue is not only painful but complex,
   some regard for the integrity of those people who have already posted
   thoughtfully and carefully on this subject and above all, due
   consideration for the welfare of the person this is really all about.
   May I also reiterate my confidence in the NPS Committee and their
   decision. I base this on my knowledge of the people serving on the
   Committee and my admiration of their integrity and administrative
   abilities.

   --


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[NSP] Re: What oil to use?

[Dave S]

Francis -- how about neck oil for the many and gunpowder lapsong for the few

Dave

Francis Wood wrote:

Can anybody suggest a suitable oil to pour on these troubled waters?
Ideally, it should be capable of spreading evenly and fairly as well 
as making the tone of everything seem much brighter. Should lubricate 
roughened areas. Capable of curing squeaks as well as growls, howls 
and other distressing noises. Must be totally non-imflammable.


Non-oxidising would be nice too.

Francis



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[NSP] no warranty

[Dave S]

oops
guarranttee or so 



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[NSP] Wheels, use of re-inventing, one

[Dave S]

Placing myself as a not so good player ( I just don't practise often 
enough), I like to listen to most of the varieties that we now have. 
Some of these sources will dry up, others will fluff and die, a couple 
may dig in and be around for a long while. Thus we have the spice of 
"life" but there are maybe some unpalatable 'erbs in amongst them.
Personally I reckon that the "tradition" is now in a reasonable state of 
health, it's into meditation, but it will not be able to cure its' own 
future. Nor should it try to do so IMHO.
With this instrument, as many believe and have said perhaps vehemently, 
perhaps contentedly, there are certain constraints to be considered.
In considering them, be magnanimous, win people over, don't alienate 
them, thus one can gauranttee the survival of this superb little dinosaur.

How about a T shirt -- "Play a Dinosaur -- make history"
Dave Singleton
PS keys were on wind instruments around Henry VIII's time and before -- 
only basic, but the technique was known,






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[NSP] Re: malcom's final solution

[Dave S]

Barry, There used to be a  site run by Gerit Raith having plans for a 
cornemuse in F (alto kortholt) but I can't seem to track it down -- if 
you are interested in this windcap instrument I may be a ble to dig out 
the plans from an archive I have somewhere -- let me know if you would 
like me to search for them --


Ciao

Dave S

Barry Say wrote:
I am writing a reply to Malcolm's message, but in the meantime, I have a 
related question which I hope that readers of this list can help with.


The Northumbrian Smallpipes are unusual  in that they have a very small bore 
compared to other instruments. Also, the tone holes are often the same size as 
the bore.


Is anyone aware of any other wind instruments contemporary or historical which 
have a bore comparable with the smallpipes or tone holes about the size of the 
bore?


Barry



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[NSP] Re: malcom's final solution

[Dave S]

Hi all,

AFAIK modifying the cone of the staple (and to a lesser extent the  
angle of the reed blades) WILL change the position of the notes on the 
top half more than the bottom half of the chanter,  so go figure  - 
new staple conicity -- new hole positions --- 


DON'T EVER FORGET THE VALUE OF A GOOD REED --- coupled with a good ear !!

have fun

Dave S

Gibbons, John wrote:

The survey may not tell Malcolm as much as he hopes.

 As well as 'where are the holes?' we also need to know 'is the note
sharp or flat?'.
It's not just size that matters - internal shape does too, as if a hole
is significantly undercut, 
it will affect the pitch. And the bore of the chanter, the nature of the

plug in the end.
And have the pipes been altered by anyone since the maker sold them?

And customers, if there's a maker currently producing pipes with
difficult or out of tune hole spacings, 
need to know who it is.


John

-Original Message-
From: nsp-request+j.gibbons=ic.ac...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:nsp-request+j.gibbons=ic.ac...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of
rosspi...@aol.com
Sent: 06 March 2009 10:42
To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [NSP] malcom's final solution

I have published in my Technical Advisors report in the forthcoming
Newsletter a list of hole positions with diameters as the result of my
own research into the tuning of chanters that is the result of forty
years pipemaking and which is about 90% right.
I think that Malcom should name the makers he is accusing of changing
the hole positions, and if he thinks he can come up with a Unversal
Theory of chanter making then he should think of helping Stephen Hawkin
with his problem with arriving at a final theory. Learning to spell
might be a start.
CR


-Original Message-
From: malcolm.sargea...@ntlworld.com
To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 9:59
Subject: [NSP] Re: Obit for JIm Bryan



Dear pipers; As a learner not just to pipe making but all things pipes I
have come accross a phenomenon perculier to Northumbrian Smallpipes in
particular.
After asking around all and sundry to the point of being a "pest" about
tone hole positions I have arrived, after six years of research to this
conclusion.
There are pipe makers that even after "donkeys years" of making pipes
change the tone hole positions to suit the reed being used at the time
for whatever reason.
I have "umpteen" different tone hole positions from makers and
developers like Clough to Reid and many recent makers and all of them
are different regardless of pitch and bore. Prevelent makers changing
these positions as much as three times in a two year period. As a result
I am asking everyone willing to take part in my survey to measure your
Northumbrian Smallpipes tone hole positions and send them to me so that
the results can be published here when completed. It is not my intention
to embarrass anyone and the maker can be kept confidential if you wish,
although I would rather know the maker too but rather to aid the
development of our instrument if possible for future generations in
attempting to consolidate the tone hole positions. As far as I know,
this kind of thing has not been done for a very long time and since
then, there has been thousands of pipes made worldwide. This of course
will give more data to work with and a better average to arrive at any
sensible sort of conclusion. Anyone willing to help not just me but
yourselves in the long run will be required to measure the following;
Give length and bore if possible, pitch, maker,  aproximate year made,
material (timber if known) and the tone holes ,measured from the very
top of the chanter to the centre of the hole. Lastly but equaly
important is the size of each tone hole as some may be as much as 1/2"
elongated. 
Measurements to

be as careful as possible and in metric. (if you do not have metric or
can not use it then of course imperial) Thank you Malcolm Sargeant.
-- Julia.Say wrote :
Hi, list

Apparently there was an obit. for Jim Bryan in Weds. Daily Telegraph.
It hasn't appeared on their website - although others from the same day
have.

Does anyone read this paper, and could supply a copy for the NPS
scrapbook?

Thanks
JUlia



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[NSP] Images of reverse or not

[Dave S]

I have the idea that if one looks at the buttons on coats and waistcoats 
( if present) one can solve the problem of whether the image is true or 
not. Ladies have buttons on the left and Gents on the right.


good spotting

Dave Singleton



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[NSP] Reel of t

[Dave S]

Hi all, the song  whose last line was "the reel of tullochgorum" was 
writ by non-other than the Rev John Skinner way back in "the good 
ol'days - 1721-1807. There may just be a tie in to smallpipes because 
the first line is Come gie's a sang Montgomery cried - ie the 
Montgomery set ---


have fun


Dave Singleton



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