On 2015-03-08 08:20:31 -0430 (-0430), Flavio Percoco wrote:
> I'm pretty sure this was discussed already in a TC meeting, which
> I did not attend unfortunately. In the spite of keeoing things
> open - not only the issues but also the solutions found - would
> someone from the TC (or Stefano) mind
On 18/02/15 10:07 -0500, Doug Hellmann wrote:
On Wed, Feb 18, 2015, at 05:40 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote:
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 09:29:19AM -0800, Clint Byrum wrote:
> Excerpts from Daniel P. Berrange's message of 2015-02-17 02:37:50 -0800:
> > On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 03:14:39PM +0100, Stefa
On Wed, Feb 18, 2015, at 05:40 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 09:29:19AM -0800, Clint Byrum wrote:
> > Excerpts from Daniel P. Berrange's message of 2015-02-17 02:37:50 -0800:
> > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 03:14:39PM +0100, Stefano Maffulli wrote:
> > > > > ## Cores are *
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 09:29:19AM -0800, Clint Byrum wrote:
> Excerpts from Daniel P. Berrange's message of 2015-02-17 02:37:50 -0800:
> > On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 03:14:39PM +0100, Stefano Maffulli wrote:
> > > > ## Cores are *NOT* special
> > > >
> > > > At some point, for some reason that is un
Excerpts from Ed Leafe's message of 2015-02-17 10:11:01 -0800:
> On Feb 17, 2015, at 11:29 AM, Clint Byrum wrote:
>
> > Shaming a person is a last resort, when that person may not listen to
> > reason. It's sometimes necessary to bring shame to a practice, but even
> > then, those who are partici
On Feb 17, 2015, at 11:29 AM, Clint Byrum wrote:
> Shaming a person is a last resort, when that person may not listen to
> reason. It's sometimes necessary to bring shame to a practice, but even
> then, those who are participating are now draped in shame as well and
> will have a hard time saving
Excerpts from Daniel P. Berrange's message of 2015-02-17 02:37:50 -0800:
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 03:14:39PM +0100, Stefano Maffulli wrote:
> > > ## Cores are *NOT* special
> > >
> > > At some point, for some reason that is unknown to me, this message
> > > changed and the feeling of core's being
On 17/02/15 10:44 -0500, Doug Hellmann wrote:
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015, at 05:37 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote:
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 03:14:39PM +0100, Stefano Maffulli wrote:
> > ## Cores are *NOT* special
> >
> > At some point, for some reason that is unknown to me, this message
> > changed and
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015, at 05:37 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 03:14:39PM +0100, Stefano Maffulli wrote:
> > > ## Cores are *NOT* special
> > >
> > > At some point, for some reason that is unknown to me, this message
> > > changed and the feeling of core's being some kind
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 03:14:39PM +0100, Stefano Maffulli wrote:
> > ## Cores are *NOT* special
> >
> > At some point, for some reason that is unknown to me, this message
> > changed and the feeling of core's being some kind of superheros became
> > a thing. It's gotten far enough to the point th
I was traveling for two days, and I miss a great thread like this. Go
figure! One comment in-line.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 3:55 AM, Flavio Percoco wrote:
> Greetings all,
>
> During the last two cycles, I've had the feeling that some of the
> things I love the most about this community are degra
Stefano Maffulli wrote:
>> And so far, no real indication of why IRC is worse than a private
>> phone call or a water-cooler conversation on a regular basis.
>
> Multiple people have explained why already and you're choosing to ignore
> their words: permanent private IRC channels are a bad habit
On Thu, 2015-02-12 at 16:01 +, Amrith Kumar wrote:
> How is a private IRC channel any different from a culture of private
> discussions? Having a chat over lunch, in the hallway, on the
> telephone, etc.,
I will articulate again why I think that a group of leaders of OpenStack
*should not* es
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015, Flavio Percoco wrote:
On 11/02/15 11:24 +, Chris Dent wrote:
I think it is time we recognize and act on the fact that the corporate
landlords that pay many of us to farm on this land need to provide more
resources. This will help to ensure the health of semi-artifical
op
On 2015-02-12 18:34:56 +0100 (+0100), Flavio Percoco wrote:
[...]
> we *don't* have a public voip channel
[...]
Well, technically we do if you want one.
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Infrastructure/Conferencing
But of course the logistics around all the project connecting in and
talking at onc
On 12/02/15 12:04 +, Chris Dent wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015, Flavio Percoco wrote:
The important bit, thoguh, is that email is meant for asynchronous
communication and IRC isn't. If things that require the intervention
of other folks from the community are being discussed and those folks
are
On 11/02/15 11:24 +, Chris Dent wrote:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2015, Flavio Percoco wrote:
During the last two cycles, I've had the feeling that some of the
things I love the most about this community are degrading and moving
to a state that I personally disagree with. With the hope of seeing
these
nversations that circumvent the public discussion decision making process are
bad. Why then the specific demonization of private IRC in particular?
My 2c, and thanks for surfacing this issue and keeping this conversation in the
open.
-amrith
--
Amrith Kumar, CTO Tesora (www.tesora.com)
Twitter
On 2015-02-12 17:20:37 +0100 (+0100), Alan Pevec wrote:
> Discussing CVEs in private came up few times but I'm not sure IRC
> is secure enough for that. IMHO discussion about embargoed issues
> must be kept in private Launchpad bugs but I'd like to hear from
> VMT team.
I do from time to time /msg
>> I think there's a place for
>> private conversation (eg. discussing a security issue that corresponds
>> to a CVE...
> CVE's are a special exception and I'd even argue on the need of
> private conversations there.
Discussing CVEs in private came up few times but I'm not sure IRC is
secure enou
h Kumar, CTO Tesora (www.tesora.com)
Twitter: @amrithkumar
IRC: amrith @freenode
| -Original Message-
| From: Flavio Percoco [mailto:fla...@redhat.com]
| Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 3:06 AM
| To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
| Subject: Re: [
On 2015-02-12 10:35:18 + (+), Kuvaja, Erno wrote:
[...]
> I'd like to point out that that this discussion has been pushing
> all inclusive open approach. Not ATC, not specially approved
> individuals, but everyone. Mailing list can easily facilitate
> participation of everyone who wishes to
On Thu, 2015-02-12 at 10:37 +0100, Thierry Carrez wrote:
> Right. You can't prevent occasional private discussions and pings, and
> you shouldn't. It's when you encourage and officialize them (by for
> example creating a channel for them) that things start to go bad.
Yes, that's very bad. Private
On Thu, 2015-02-12 at 10:35 +, Kuvaja, Erno wrote:
> I'm not attacking against having summits, I think the face to face
> time is incredibly valuable for all kind of things. My point was to
> bring up general flaw of the flow between all inclusive decision
> making vs. decided in summit session
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015, Flavio Percoco wrote:
The important bit, thoguh, is that email is meant for asynchronous
communication and IRC isn't. If things that require the intervention
of other folks from the community are being discussed and those folks
are not on IRC, it'd be wrong to consider the t
On 02/11/2015 06:20 PM, Clint Byrum wrote:
> Excerpts from Nikola Đipanov's message of 2015-02-11 05:26:47 -0800:
>> On 02/11/2015 02:13 PM, Sean Dague wrote:
>>>
>>> If core team members start dropping off external IRC where they are
>>> communicating across corporate boundaries, then the local tr
> -Original Message-
> From: Donald Stufft [mailto:don...@stufft.io]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2015 4:34 PM
> To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Lets keep our community open, lets
> fight for i
On 12/02/15 01:41 -0800, Nikhil Manchanda wrote:
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 1:55 AM, Flavio Percoco wrote:
[...]
## Keep discussions open
I don't believe there's anything wrong about kicking off some
discussions in private channels about specs/bugs. I don't believe
there's anything wrong in hav
Excerpts from Flavio Percoco's message of 2015-02-12 00:13:35 -0800:
> On 11/02/15 09:37 -0800, Clint Byrum wrote:
> >Excerpts from Stefano Maffulli's message of 2015-02-11 06:14:39 -0800:
> >> On Wed, 2015-02-11 at 10:55 +0100, Flavio Percoco wrote:
> >> > This email is dedicated to the openness o
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 1:55 AM, Flavio Percoco wrote:
> [...]
>
> ## Keep discussions open
>
> I don't believe there's anything wrong about kicking off some
> discussions in private channels about specs/bugs. I don't believe
> there's anything wrong in having calls to speed up some discussions.
>
Flavio Percoco wrote:
> On 11/02/15 17:19 +, Amrith Kumar wrote:
>> Personally, I think the focus on password protected IRC channels is a
>> distraction from the real issue that we need to ensure that the
>> rapidly growing community is one where public discussion and decision
>> making are sti
On 11/02/15 09:37 -0800, Clint Byrum wrote:
Excerpts from Stefano Maffulli's message of 2015-02-11 06:14:39 -0800:
On Wed, 2015-02-11 at 10:55 +0100, Flavio Percoco wrote:
> This email is dedicated to the openness of our community/project.
It's good to have a reminder every now and then. Thank
On 11/02/15 17:19 +, Amrith Kumar wrote:
[snip]
Mostly, I'm very happy to see Flavio's email which ends with this:
All the above being said, I'd like to thank everyone who fights for the
openness of our community
and encourage everyone to make that a must have thing in each sub-community
On 2015-02-11 14:06:23 -0600 (-0600), Brian Curtin wrote:
> If people feel it's a negative or uncomfortable environment, find
> out why and try to do something to improve it. Telling someone
> that there are worse options out there is the opposite of
> fostering an open community.
Fair point--I wa
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 1:43 PM, Jeremy Stanley wrote:
> Also, if there are people on this list who feel like
> discussions here sometimes get negative or uncomfortable, I'm happy
> to point you to free software community mailing lists (more than I
> can count on all my fingers and toes) whose day
On 2015-02-11 09:20:34 -0800 (-0800), Clint Byrum wrote:
[...]
> That said, I do want us to talk about uncomfortable things when
> necessary. I think this thread is not something where it will be
> entirely productive to stay 100% positive throughout. We might
> just have to use some negative langu
On 02/11/2015 04:52 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:55:18AM +0100, Flavio Percoco wrote:
>> Greetings all,
>>
>> During the last two cycles, I've had the feeling that some of the
>> things I love the most about this community are degrading and moving
>> to a state that I
to be in a public channel, but then that isn't
really a discussion either so I'm not sure it's the sort of thing we're
talking about here. And if that ping turns into a discussion of my
review comments then it does belong in public IMHO.
-Ben
>
> -amrith
>
> --
>
ot that in a private message I know not.
| -Original Message-
| From: Amrith Kumar [mailto:amr...@tesora.com]
| Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2015 12:20 PM
| To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
| Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Lets keep our community open,
Excerpts from Stefano Maffulli's message of 2015-02-11 06:14:39 -0800:
> On Wed, 2015-02-11 at 10:55 +0100, Flavio Percoco wrote:
> > This email is dedicated to the openness of our community/project.
>
> It's good to have a reminder every now and then. Thank you Flavio for
> caring enough to notic
Excerpts from Nikola Đipanov's message of 2015-02-11 05:26:47 -0800:
> On 02/11/2015 02:13 PM, Sean Dague wrote:
> >
> > If core team members start dropping off external IRC where they are
> > communicating across corporate boundaries, then the local tribal effects
> > start taking over. You get p
ve (#openstack-trove)
| -Original Message-----
| From: Stefano Maffulli [mailto:stef...@openstack.org]
| Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2015 9:15 AM
| To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org
| Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Lets keep our community open, lets
| fight for it
|
| On We
> On Feb 11, 2015, at 11:15 AM, Jeremy Stanley wrote:
>
> On 2015-02-11 11:31:13 + (+), Kuvaja, Erno wrote:
> [...]
>> If you don't belong to the group of privileged living in the area
>> and receiving free ticket somehow or company paying your
>> participation you're not included. $600
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015, at 11:15 AM, Jeremy Stanley wrote:
> On 2015-02-11 11:31:13 + (+), Kuvaja, Erno wrote:
> [...]
> > If you don't belong to the group of privileged living in the area
> > and receiving free ticket somehow or company paying your
> > participation you're not included. $6
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015, at 09:32 AM, Sean Dague wrote:
> On 02/11/2015 09:02 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 08:13:05AM -0500, Sean Dague wrote:
> >> On 02/11/2015 05:52 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote:
> ## Mailing List vs IRC Channel
>
> I get it, our mailing
On 2015-02-11 11:31:13 + (+), Kuvaja, Erno wrote:
[...]
> If you don't belong to the group of privileged living in the area
> and receiving free ticket somehow or company paying your
> participation you're not included. $600 + travel + accommodation
> is quite hefty premium to be included,
On Wed, 2015-02-11 at 09:32 -0500, Sean Dague wrote:
> Definitely true, to each his/her own. I still consider it unfortunate.
> I've also heard core developers state that they stopped reading the
> mailing list months ago. Which I also find unfortunate.
That's terrible: do you know why they don't
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015, at 09:14 AM, Stefano Maffulli wrote:
> On Wed, 2015-02-11 at 10:55 +0100, Flavio Percoco wrote:
> > This email is dedicated to the openness of our community/project.
>
> It's good to have a reminder every now and then. Thank you Flavio for
> caring enough to notice bad patt
On 02/11/2015 09:02 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 08:13:05AM -0500, Sean Dague wrote:
>> On 02/11/2015 05:52 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote:
## Mailing List vs IRC Channel
I get it, our mailing list is freaking busy, keeping up with it is
hard and time co
On Wed, 2015-02-11 at 10:55 +0100, Flavio Percoco wrote:
> This email is dedicated to the openness of our community/project.
It's good to have a reminder every now and then. Thank you Flavio for
caring enough to notice bad patterns and for raising a flag.
> ## Keep discussions open
>
> I don't
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 08:13:05AM -0500, Sean Dague wrote:
> On 02/11/2015 05:52 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote:
> >> ## Mailing List vs IRC Channel
> >>
> >> I get it, our mailing list is freaking busy, keeping up with it is
> >> hard and time consuming and that leads to lots of IRC discussions. I
On 2/11/15, 3:26 PM, "Nikola Đipanov" wrote:
>On 02/11/2015 02:13 PM, Sean Dague wrote:
>>
>> If core team members start dropping off external IRC where they are
>> communicating across corporate boundaries, then the local tribal effects
>> start taking over. You get people start talking about
On 02/11/2015 02:13 PM, Sean Dague wrote:
>
> If core team members start dropping off external IRC where they are
> communicating across corporate boundaries, then the local tribal effects
> start taking over. You get people start talking about the upstream as
> "them". The moment we get into us v
On 02/11/2015 05:52 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:55:18AM +0100, Flavio Percoco wrote:
>> Greetings all,
>>
>> During the last two cycles, I've had the feeling that some of the
>> things I love the most about this community are degrading and moving
>> to a state that I
On 02/11/2015 04:55 AM, Flavio Percoco wrote:
> Greetings all,
>
> During the last two cycles, I've had the feeling that some of the
> things I love the most about this community are degrading and moving
> to a state that I personally disagree with. With the hope of seeing
> these things improve,
On Wed, 11 Feb 2015, Chris Dent wrote:
I think it is time we recognize and act on the fact that the corporate
landlords that pay many of us to farm on this land need to provide more
resources.
In case it wasn't clear, by this I don't mean project managers and
other styles of enterprisey hoopaa
On 11/02/15 11:31 +, Kuvaja, Erno wrote:
## Mailing List vs IRC Channel
I get it, our mailing list is freaking busy, keeping up with it is hard and time
consuming and that leads to lots of IRC discussions. I don't think there's
anything wrong with that but I believe it's wrong to expect *EVE
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 12:53:24PM +0100, Nikola Đipanov wrote:
> + Inf for writing this Flavio!
Absolutely! I never even knew such things existed in this community.
> Only some observations below.
[. . .]
> > ## Mailing List vs IRC Channel
> >
> > I get it, our mailing list is freaking busy,
+ Inf for writing this Flavio!
Only some observations below.
On 02/11/2015 10:55 AM, Flavio Percoco wrote:
> Greetings all,
>
> During the last two cycles, I've had the feeling that some of the
> things I love the most about this community are degrading and moving
> to a state that I personally
> -Original Message-
> From: Flavio Percoco [mailto:fla...@redhat.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2015 9:55 AM
> To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org
> Subject: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Lets keep our community open, lets fight
> for it
>
> Greetings all,
On Wed, 11 Feb 2015, Flavio Percoco wrote:
During the last two cycles, I've had the feeling that some of the
things I love the most about this community are degrading and moving
to a state that I personally disagree with. With the hope of seeing
these things improve, I'm taking the time today to
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:55:18AM +0100, Flavio Percoco wrote:
> Greetings all,
>
> During the last two cycles, I've had the feeling that some of the
> things I love the most about this community are degrading and moving
> to a state that I personally disagree with. With the hope of seeing
> thes
Flavio Percoco wrote:
> During the last two cycles, I've had the feeling that some of the
> things I love the most about this community are degrading and moving
> to a state that I personally disagree with. With the hope of seeing
> these things improve, I'm taking the time today to share one of my
Greetings all,
During the last two cycles, I've had the feeling that some of the
things I love the most about this community are degrading and moving
to a state that I personally disagree with. With the hope of seeing
these things improve, I'm taking the time today to share one of my
concerns.
S
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