ssage-From: Viktor
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 10:04
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
Orawomen
Rachel,
I agree with you for the most part and I'm sure so will many
others.There are manypeople, however,who advocate people
skills, p
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Orawomen
I
don't like feeding an OT too much, but...
People wonder why I am completely self-taught. I wonder where they were
taught, because the time I spent in primary and secondary school was a
complete and utter waste
On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Boivin, Patrice J wrote:
People gravitate toward comfort first and foremost. Why hire someone who
knows more than you and keeps telling you management is incompetent? Think
about it. You will have to work with these new hires on a daily basis, life
is hard enough as
You all do topgrading, don't you, Alex?
April Wells
Oracle DBA
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds
-- Albert Einstein
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 8:50 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
On Thu, 9 Jan 2003,
ROTFL And it keeps getting funnier every time I read it! :D
Rich
-Original Message-
From: Farnsworth, Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:15 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Orawomen
I prefer it to be Mary showing me
Title: Message
"manual"?? Details?
-Original Message-From:
Spears, Brian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday,
January 09, 2003 9:04 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Orawomen
The
public education is so pathetic... I took the mannual prod
Subject: RE: Orawomen
The
public education is so pathetic... I took the mannual produced by US
scientists I guess commissioned by the Senate
(or
something like that) and used it to teach my daughter to read grade 3 level a
4 years old in 4 months spending only
20
minutes a day
I asked nicely once.
Please limit this to the OT list.
Jared
Boivin, Patrice J [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
01/09/2003 04:53 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:RE
of list ORACLE-LSubject:
RE: Orawomen
"manual"?? Details?
-Original Message-From:
Spears, Brian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday,
January 09, 2003 9:04 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Orawomen
The public education is so pathetic
Dennis,
I think that the article is correct that girls and teens are sensitive to
the geek stigma factor.Even in our 10-year-old Girl Scout troop, the
girls are already concerned about their images and not being too dorky.
We have many more girls vote for activities involving animals and
I think that within the population of women in IT, the number of female
Oracle DBAs is increasing. However, in general, the number of women
entering IT is decreasing. That is, the number of women who are
encouraged to become DBAs or developers or network admins or sys admins
is decreasing.
I've
I like geek girls!!
Dave
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 7:09 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Dennis,
I think that the article is correct that girls and teens are sensitive to
the geek stigma factor.Even in our 10-year-old Girl Scout troop, the
Dorky rules :)
It's sad that there isn't a requirement for the science/math activities
in the Girl Scouts. The problem is that society in general doesn't show
images of science as being cool and definitely doesn't show images of
women as scientists. Or at least, not enough images.
--- [EMAIL
Title: RE: Orawomen
Well, it's been a while since I was in college (1999) but I always felt singled out in a class. Some teachers, that were as old as the hills, truly felt that women should not be in science and did not hesitate to say so. Other teachers could not keep their eyes off my legs
Just asking .. I'm told that the number of Americans (by which I mean kids
born in the States) entering technical fields of all types is declining.
Could the decline of the number of women in IT entering IT be a part of that
trend?
For that matter, I wasn't really called on much in school (and
Cherie, Rachel - Thanks for sharing your viewpoint.
Brian - I think you are correct that kids today get very little
encouragement to study hard subjects like sciences. I find this ironic given
the fact that we have an incredibly technological society. I think this is a
cumulative product of our
I'd venture a guess that if it were a requirement there would be fewer girl
scouts. Girls join girl scouts to have fun, and I think that they would
perceive any requirement as an impediment to their fun, especially something
dorky.
I agree that it is an image thing. We need some cool female
I have found that men are fascinated, not intimidated
by techie girls. We can offer them fashion advice as
well as hardware recommendations.
Saira
--- Farnsworth, Dave
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I like geek girls!!
Dave
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
So do I.. and married one... she is a Math major (with Masters) and a CS Diploma.
:)
- Kirti
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 7:39 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
I like geek girls!!
Dave
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003
Title: RE: Orawomen
My youngest is in high school and is the only woman taking mechanic drawing. She is the best in the class. The instructor was berating the boys that a 'girl' was beating them until my daughter told the instructor to keep gender out of it! She also wanted to join the Chess
It is the science, not the scientists which attracts people. This year we will begin
building a coherent light source which will pulse every few femtoseconds. This is
fast enough that we to see chemical reactions taking place; i.e. bonds between
molecules forming or breaking. That's pretty
And the images that they DO show are of single women who's job is their life
and they are socked away 16 hours a day with no social life... just what
every girl looking to her future wants to think awaits her.
April Wells
Oracle DBA
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from
think kind of showing females and males as well practical needs and applications of
structured thinking an analysis (even for houskeeping ...sorry) could be better than
showing them off (like: ought better do smthng else than calculus).
blame the consumer oriented industry and society -
Title: RE: Orawomen
I have
encouraged and pushed science on my daughter and son. My daughter started
college this year and wants to go into the biological sciences. I
periodically have been a guest teacher at our local schools to teach some
physics and am amazed at the lack of interest
cool female scientists: Grace Hopper, Sally Ride, Ellen Ochoa, Margaret
Mead, Rachel Carmichael, Marie Curie, Mae Jemison, Maria Mitchell
where's that spotlight? ;)
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 8:34 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
I'd venture a guess
I have had the pleasure of working with 2 female DBA's at my company. I
have to say they were both the best DBA's the company has had. Both were
very technical, very detailed, and very dedicated. The fact that they were
both attractive didn't hurt either. One majored in mathamatics and had a 4
Title: RE: Orawomen
Having taught IT classes (and taken some lately) at college level... it
amazed me that, in a class of 20 undergrad students, only one was female (that
was in a Database class as well as in one on C programming). I noticed
that we were definite minority in 94 when I
Brown-nosing a bit eh? Rachel may be a fine DBA, but a scientist, I think not. I
also have a problem with social scientists A hard science bias I not only admit, but
proclaim. You forgot to mention Heddy Lamar. Few would call her dorky. Her work on
frequency-hopping communications is
My wife is a teacher...
Parents by and large don't care much about their children's education. The
public education service is primarily a daycare for working parents. It
varies of course, but when there is a snow storm and schools have to close
for the day, we don't hear my child will miss out
Now when a young woman in the computer field is considering
becoming an Oracle DBA, a quick scan of the bookshelves turns up
Rachel's name. So hear that Rachel -- you're a role model, so you
must
write more books!
Oh I pity the poor young girl who makes me her role model. Besides, my
Title: RE: Orawomen
I will agree to some extent. But I have TRIED to get my daughter on
the computers, into math and science, interested in anything technology... she
tells me that Computers are geeky (she's 8). She is my militant little
feminist and into sports and precision jump rope... I
I am by no means a scientist.
I'd add Marlene Theriault to that list and the women of this list as
well
--- STEVE OLLIG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
cool female scientists: Grace Hopper, Sally Ride, Ellen Ochoa,
Margaret
Mead, Rachel Carmichael, Marie Curie, Mae Jemison, Maria Mitchell
I prefer it to be Mary showing me her light source ever few femtoseconds.
Dave
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 9:50 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
It is the science, not the scientists which attracts people. This year we will begin
Title: RE: Orawomen
Lisa,
Nursing is no place for a woman; if you
thinkDBA'ing is stressful, you ain't seen nothingyet My wife
is an RN and, while it may nobe scientific, I attribute our difficulty in
conceiving and miscarriage to job stress working on an understaffed hospital
floor
ilardir@mantec To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
h-wva.comcc:
Sent by: Subject: RE: Orawomen
This is all so true... Sounds like my wife must teach at the same school.
It is a regular occurrence for me to photocopy lessons at my place of work
because all of the copiers at the school are broken or are out ink. One
thing that makes me really mad is that the teachers are all restricted to
Title: RE: Orawomen
Maybe
so, Dave, but I have seen physics demonstrations that had entire auditoriums of
kids (yes, high school and junior high kids, both girls and boys) in awe.
They did the regular holding-the-fire-extinguisher-while-sitting-on-a-skateboard
demonstration along
The real key to this issue is not making it a GS requirement, but in getting parents off their butts and being parents. I continually work with my kids, especially my daughters (ages 17,16,12) to be individuals and go for what they like and find interesting. Forget the pop culture and fashion
Title: RE: Orawomen
I
don't know about you, but the first time I took a logic course it was in
university... It seems to me it would be fun for high school students to
take newspaper or magazine articles (Teen magazine comes to mind) and pull them
apart to show that statement B doesn't
Ian,
The fact that more girls graduate high school than boys and that many
women earn degrees does not debunk the girls are not called upon
statement. I didn't say that happened in all classes, certainly in the
history classes and English classes I took the girls were called on as
much if not
very technical, very detailed, and very dedicated. The fact that
they were both attractive didn't hurt either. One majored in math
I'm about to start a flame war here, I just know it.
WHY does it matter to mention the attractiveness of the female DBAs?
When I talk about someone I work with,
I can relate to this. I have two sons and both have told me that based on what
my work life seems like they would never pursue an IT career. Things could
change over time, of course, as the reality of making a living sets in. My
undergraduate and graduate degrees have absolutely nothing to do
What's amazing to me is that I, with my AD in Data-freaking-Processing, was
making more than twice what my lovely wife was with her Masters in
Communicative Disorders. Just plain wrong. Another reason why she's chosen
not to work in that field anymore. A shame that her talents in the field
are
I think you would be a perfect role model.
April Wells
Oracle DBA
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds
-- Albert Einstein
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 10:50 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Now when a
I have a B.A. Psych... I agree -- psychology, economics, sociology, these
are not sciences! (throw meteorology into the mix, that is more like
astrology).
Publishing of papers, number-crunching based on correlations and peer
reviews do not a science discipline make.
: )
Regards,
Pat.
Title: RE: Orawomen
Be glad that you aren't in Texas. I DESPISE the
testing system here. I realize that to a great extent it is needed (there
are high school JRs who can't divide 6 by 3 and get an accurate answer) but they
TEACH to the TEKS (or whatever the stupid name is this year). My 8
At firms where intelligence is all that matters you can look like a pig
and you'll still be respected. Most people are not that smart and work for
companies where you are judged on looks and personality.
On Wed, 8 Jan 2003, Rachel Carmichael wrote:
very technical, very detailed, and very
I think this should be moved to the OT list.
Thanks,
Jared
Rodd Holman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
01/08/2003 09:14 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:Re: Orawomen
YES!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you!
April Wells
Oracle DBA
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds
-- Albert Einstein
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:20 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
very technical,
putting on a flame retardant suit
As long as they aint skinny, looks are good :)
Obilgatory oracle statement/question: rumor has it by some instructors
that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries
will be possible, truth or fiction?
joe
very technical, very
I have been resisting responding to this thread for a number of
reasons including my experiences may be considered outdated (my kids
are through with their degree getting days and mine are even further
back) but there are some things that seem to be coming through that
have changed my mind.
1.
I'm curious. Does everyone here think the IT profession is hard? Does
everyone think that being a DBA is harder than say, a teacher, or a sales
clerk, or something else?
I don't understand the attitude. Or maybe I'm just lucky. The IT field is
wide-open for everyobe to find a niche where they
/08/2003 09:14 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:Re: Orawomen
The real key to this issue is not making it a GS requirement, but in
getting parents off their butts and being parents. I
DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote:
Recently this list had a discussion of female Oracle DBAs. The consensus was
that the numbers were increasing, which I view as a good thing. Here is an
article with industry statistics saying that the number of women in IT is
decreasing.
I am waiting for the day when I have the time, energy and money to go
back to school just because.
I did well on those stanardized tests because I have a pretty logical
brain and a really good short term memory (it's how I managed to get my
OCP without ever seeing an 8i db or cracking the
Same from me...I just get so tired of explaining that subtle discrimination
is just as bad, if not worse than overt discrimination. If people put the
same importance on the looks of men I wonder if Steven Hawkins would be
taken seriously, or Einstein (a bad hair life).
How many references did we
Title: RE: Orawomen
April,
I could tell back when I was in 8th grade that the Teaching System in Texas was
a joke. I moved from Missouri to Texas that year andwent from
a math class where we were doing geometry, trig, and algebra to a math class
where they were teaching the Metric System
Title: Was - RE: Orawomen - Steven Hawking
Talking about Steven Hawking ... Happy 61st Birthday to Steven !!
How do I know? Long Live NPR !!
Raj
__
Rajendra Jamadagni MIS, ESPN Inc.
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com
Any opinion
Agreed.
Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:08 PM
I'm curious. Does everyone here think the IT profession is hard? Does
everyone think that being a DBA is harder
I personally love being a DBA. I have found my niche.
Ruth
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:08 PM
I'm curious. Does everyone here think the IT profession is hard? Does
everyone think that being a DBA
Don't get me wrong. I never said anything about it being harder than any other
way of making a living. They, being kids, just see the early AM calls or
calls on holidays and so on and say no way. My own father-in-law who worked
for IBM for 25+ years couldn't understand why I would get a call
Pleeese let's not bring up either Janet Reno's or John Ashcroft's posterior. The
mental image is way too disturbing.
Jim
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Same from me...I just get so tired of explaining that subtle
Well, I worked in other places where I did 5 times the amount of work I
do now. It can be brutal in different places depending on the boss.
To me its now just like playing.. hard part is getting all the right
people to agree.
Brian
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003
igan), I'd
home-school her.
-Original Message-From: Kevin Lange
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:44
AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
Orawomen
April, I could tell back when I was in 8th grade that the Teaching
Syste
by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
01/08/2003 09:14 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:Re: Orawomen
The real key to this issue is not making it a GS requirement, but in
getting parents off their butts and being
cc:
Sent by: Subject: Re: Orawomen
[EMAIL PROTECTED
Title: RE: Orawomen
I have worked in IT in private industry and government for the past 15 years. Unfortunately, I have encountered a lot (not all) of men who have great difficulty accepting women in IT. Its hard at times especially when a woman says something and it is denounced or ignored
Title: RE: Orawomen
Guess I am lucky I have two boys. I have only embraced the dork thing all my life - always studying, at the library - ya know. However, we all have a wild side. Anyway, I want my kids to just be themselves and learn sooner then me to throw off the yoke of what society
Rachel,
I agree with you for the most part and I'm sure so will many others.There are manypeople, however,who advocate people skills, personality; attractiveness comes to mind, in the sense of do you like that person, in other words, do you feel positevely when working together. They say that even
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