from:"Paul Speed"

Re: [osg-users] transparent object sorting and back face culling

2009-08-18 Thread Paul Speed

As long as your shape is convex then you should always be able to draw
the inside first... even with the camera inside.

-Paul

Andrew Thompson wrote:
Hi Paul,

Cheers for your response, ok I missed that first time around, so it is possible, that's good, just not 100% sure on how you implemented it.

One special case is in my system the transparent box is sort of a zone that the
camera may move inside or outside. I need it to render properly in both cases.
Also the box may be irregular (Imaging a polygon for top and bottom with 3-N
points and a fixed height. Top/bottom polygons are the same shape).

So to clarify, should I:

1. Create each face (inner and outer) as well as top/bottom as individual
Geodes, with one Geometry per Geode, one Quad per Geometry

2. Create a stateset on each geode, and set render bin details as follows:

Code:

// Where lower values are the inner faces, higher are outer
ss->setRenderBinDetails(1, "DepthSortedBin");
ss->setRenderBinDetails(2, "DepthSortedBin");
...
ss->setRenderBinDetails(10, "DepthSortedBin");
ss->setRenderBinDetails(11, "DepthSortedBin");

3. Then depending on whether the camera is inside or outside, swap the order of
the inner/outer faces

4. Do the above in the Update pass

Does this sound about right?

Thank you!
Andrew

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Re: [osg-users] transparent object sorting and back face culling

2009-08-17 Thread Paul Speed

See my other post in this thread as I've done exactly this before. 
Split the cube into the inside faces and the outside faces, each as 
their own drawable and then use the render bin number to have the inside 
always drawn first.


It might be that if you always add the inside child before the outside 
child then it will always get drawn first (or the other way around 
depending on how the depth sorting sorts) but it's safer to use bin numbers.


-Paul

Andrew Burnett-Thompson wrote:

Hi Jason,

Ok I've updated my code to work with each side as a geode, however this 
is still not giving me the results I want. Think a transparent cube, the 
sides have bounding spheres but at certain camera locations and 
orientations, the wrong sides are rendered in the wrong order.


For my transparent cube object, is it possible to specify the render 
order in some sort of call back? So in the update pass, get the camera 
eye and sort the drawables myself?


Thanks,
Andrew

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Jason Daly > wrote:


Andrew Thompson wrote:

If I create individual QUAD's will this work better? Or perhaps
does it have to be individual Geodes to get the sorting working
right?
 



It's per-geode, I believe

--"J"


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Re: [osg-users] transparent object sorting and back face culling

2009-08-14 Thread Paul Speed

P.S.: I don't pretend to understand any of this.  Render bins and render 
bin details are one of the more confusing parts of OSG... I generally 
just keep monkeying with them until something sticks.


I will point out that in my understanding, the render bin number and the 
render bin details are not tightly related like one might think.  It's 
not like there's a fixed array of bins somewhere.  As I recall, bin 
number controls rendering order locally to that part of the scene graph. 
 Render bin details define how to sort/render things within that local 
bin.  So if child 1 is render bin 1 it will be rendered before child 2 
at render bin 2.  The parent node might be render bin 25 and it's 
irrelevant.  I think.


Though as soon as I pretend I understand that I've had it bite me.  So I 
could be somewhat wrong somewhere.


-Paul

Paul Speed wrote:
Even within the transparent bin you can enforce specific ordering with 
the bin number.  Lower numbers get rendered before higher numbers.


I'd have to dig to find any of my own example code but I hoped perhaps 
the hint would be enough in short time.


We did this all the time to render double-side transparent geometry. 
Draw the inner faces in a lower bin number than the outer faces.  Even 
with different bin numbers you can still depth sort them.


We had semi-transparent glass boxes with text on the sides.  I think we 
ultimately had three different bin numbers we used for that associated 
with the inner, outer, and text geometries.


-Paul

Jason Daly wrote:

Rabbi Robinson wrote:

Hi,

Is there anyway that I can enforce drawing the objects inside first 
before drawing the outside membrane?
  


Sure, just use setRenderBinDetails() to set a render bin for the 
membrane that has a higher number than the render bin used by the 
interior objects.  For the other parameter, you can set either 
"DefaultBin" for a state-sorted bin, or "DepthSortedBin" for a 
depth-sorted bin.


interiorStateSet->setRenderBinDetails(0, "DefaultBin");
membraneStateSet->setRenderBinDetails(10, "DepthSortedBin");


However, this is equivalent to this code:

interiorStateSet->setRenderingHint(StateSet::OPAQUE_BIN);
membraneStateSet->setRenderingHint(StateSet::TRANSPARENT_BIN);


Which is probably close to what you're already doing.  The problem is 
that the transparent geometry still has to obey the depth (z-buffer) 
test, even if it's drawn last.  You can try disabling the depth test, 
but this is likely to cause other problems (if you ever have anything 
move in front of the membrane, for example):


depth = new Depth();
depth->setFunction(Depth::ALWAYS);
membraneStateSet->setAttributeAndModes(depth, StateAttribute::ON);


This is the main reason why the alpha to coverage method is sometimes 
used, even though it's a bit expensive in draw time.


--"J"

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Re: [osg-users] transparent object sorting and back face culling

2009-08-14 Thread Paul Speed

Even within the transparent bin you can enforce specific ordering with 
the bin number.  Lower numbers get rendered before higher numbers.


I'd have to dig to find any of my own example code but I hoped perhaps 
the hint would be enough in short time.


We did this all the time to render double-side transparent geometry. 
Draw the inner faces in a lower bin number than the outer faces.  Even 
with different bin numbers you can still depth sort them.


We had semi-transparent glass boxes with text on the sides.  I think we 
ultimately had three different bin numbers we used for that associated 
with the inner, outer, and text geometries.


-Paul

Jason Daly wrote:

Rabbi Robinson wrote:

Hi,

Is there anyway that I can enforce drawing the objects inside first 
before drawing the outside membrane?
  


Sure, just use setRenderBinDetails() to set a render bin for the 
membrane that has a higher number than the render bin used by the 
interior objects.  For the other parameter, you can set either 
"DefaultBin" for a state-sorted bin, or "DepthSortedBin" for a 
depth-sorted bin.


interiorStateSet->setRenderBinDetails(0, "DefaultBin");
membraneStateSet->setRenderBinDetails(10, "DepthSortedBin");


However, this is equivalent to this code:

interiorStateSet->setRenderingHint(StateSet::OPAQUE_BIN);
membraneStateSet->setRenderingHint(StateSet::TRANSPARENT_BIN);


Which is probably close to what you're already doing.  The problem is 
that the transparent geometry still has to obey the depth (z-buffer) 
test, even if it's drawn last.  You can try disabling the depth test, 
but this is likely to cause other problems (if you ever have anything 
move in front of the membrane, for example):


depth = new Depth();
depth->setFunction(Depth::ALWAYS);
membraneStateSet->setAttributeAndModes(depth, StateAttribute::ON);


This is the main reason why the alpha to coverage method is sometimes 
used, even though it's a bit expensive in draw time.


--"J"

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Re: [osg-users] OSG and shaders

2009-08-05 Thread Paul Speed

And it deserves saying, if you can get your hands on an OpenGL Orange
Book you'll be that many more steps ahead. I thought it was really good
at explaining things in depth while also being easily navigated to drill
in on target areas.

I had complex shaders up and running in a few days with that book... I
have had some embedded-style coding experience before, though.

-Paul

Maxime BOUCHER wrote:

Well,

I'm doing an internship too.

At the beginning I didn't know osg at all, neither shaders.
There are still an extraordinary amount of things I ignore about OSG (my
advice: when you try to do or understand something, take a look at how it's
done in OpenGL).
Shaders aren't as hard to use as OSG, I discovered about one month ago and I
can now write some modests but nice effects.

The essential is to read code and tutorials.
Don't try to go fast, it's the best way to misunderstand what you manipulate
and to write bad code, failing your internship. You have 6 months, you can
waste it OR spend 2 months to understand osg and shaders and then writting good
code, masterizing your internship.

Thus, first read a few osg tutorials (to understand how textures are mapped for
example, it seems you don't), I think the 4 or 5 firsts should be enough.
After, try to understand what is a shader (I guess you don't really).
Then try to understand the shader tutorials from typhoonlabs, or this
(http://www.siteduzero.com/tutoriel-3-8879-communiquer-avec-l-application-attributs-et-uniforms.html?bcsi-ac-20A76BC15DBD50F6=194870AE0303lbVE9ryZWUuZzrBgMzY7DS6IPWi9BwMAAMDCRwEQDgAAINVbBwA=),
it's in french.
I advice to look at osgshader example ONLY to understand (or copy the code) how
to load and activate a shader, it's 5 lines.

Don't take me for moralistic, I did these errors.

Good luck and take your time, it's the best way to success.

Cheers,
Maxime

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Re: [osg-users] frame rate faster than monitor vsync?

2009-07-11 Thread Paul Speed

I have to be pedantic here... the eye can most _certainly_ detect 
movement beyond 60 hz.  But there is no point in displaying faster than 
that if your display can't render faster than 60 hz.


There are good reasons to do so, though.  For example, to test rendering 
speed to get good benchmarking for seeing how much CPU your rendering 
code is wasting.  Alternately, there are certain situations where one 
may be driving sensing equipment that wants higher refresh.  Of course, 
then the display is expecting that refresh or whatever is receiving the 
output... so we still come back to driving your display at what your 
display expects.  Or benchmarking.


-Paul


Philip Taylor wrote:

Wyatt,

Out of very idle curiosity, why would you render at 2KHz when the eye can't
really detect movement beyond 60Hz?
Would it just be for rendering individual frames for a movie?

PhilT

-Original Message-
From: osg-users-boun...@lists.openscenegraph.org
[mailto:osg-users-boun...@lists.openscenegraph.org]on Behalf Of Wyatt
Earp
Sent: 11 July 2009 19:08
To: OpenSceneGraph Users
Subject: Re: [osg-users] frame rate faster than monitor vsync?


I have renderered in excess of 2 KHz on ocassion.

Wyatt

On 7/11/09, Ulrich Hertlein  wrote:

Hi Bob,

On 10/7/09 9:05 PM, Bob Youmans wrote:

Hi, does anyone know if it’s possible to run faster than the 60Hz vsync
or 100Hz osg limit, if computational performance is the ultimate goal
even at the expense of “tearing.” Can I get 600 fps by turning off vsync
(or something else, it didn’t work on my box)? Is the graphics card
driver/model involved? How can you tell which ones will work without
actually buying it?

If you turn off vsync then OSG will render as fast as possible, without

any

artificial
limitation.  There's no 100 Hz OSG limit that I'm aware of except maybe in
the DB pager.

Sure you can get 600 fps if you're willing to accept tearing (or render
offscreen), even
my GeForce 8600M GT laptop gives me over 1000 fps for moderately complex
models.  And yes,
the graphics card is obviously involved (the faster the better) and so is
the driver.

If you're not seeing more than vsync fps then the reason is most likely

due

to setup, e.g.
a driver settings forcing vsync on or __GL_SYNC_TO_VBLANK being set on
Linux.

Cheers,
/ulrich
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Re: [osg-users] Transparency on geode and shared stateSet

2009-06-09 Thread Paul Speed

You could implement the full fixed function pipeline (the parts you 
need) in a custom shader with the addition of manually controlling 
transparency based on a uniform.  Actually, a fragment shader may be all 
you need... which is probably a lot easier than a fixed function pixel 
shader.

I've been tempted to do this before myself as fading in/out a model for 
LOD or otherwise is a real pain.

-Paul

Vincent Bourdier wrote:

Hi Robert,

I am aware of the mess this is to implement... but I need it, and I 
cannot create my scene graph appropriately because it it generated by 
some exporter (osgExp) so I have to work with graphs I cannot control.

I just was asking if there is an other solution I didn't tried, but I 
see there are no miracles, I need to dig into the issue more longer to 
make the better code I can.

Thanks for help.

Regards,
   Vincent.

2009/6/9 Robert Osfield >

Hi Vincent,

On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:17 AM, Vincent
Bourdiermailto:vincent.bourd...@gmail.com>> wrote:
 > Can't it be interesting for OSG to have a setTransparency()
method on a node
 > ? using material or something else, but working in each case...

The OSG's state handling is done with StateSet, you can multiple
parent paths to allow you to decorate the subgraphs with different
state.

Trying to embed low state management like transparency in nodes would
be an utter mess to implement and to maintain for developers and end
users.  Just create your scene graph appropriately and you will be
able to do what you require without any modifications to the scene
graph.

Robert.
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Re: [osg-users] [RFC] osgViewer: solution for omitted key release events

2009-06-04 Thread Paul Speed

From my perspective, if I were writing a game control scheme, I'd want 
all downs and all ups with raw key codes. 'a' down, left-shift down, 'a' 
up, left-shift up.


Just because application X is using the keys to type human words doesn't 
mean that application Y has any relationship between shift and 'a'.  (In 
this case, maybe 'a' is move left and shift is run... for a really 
really common example.)  Inserting extra events is at best unhelpful, at 
worst confusing.  What application X needs is a way to get from "shift + 
'a' key" to "A".  I'm not sure including the virtual character codes 
right in the event is the best way... though it may be the only way in 
OSG's API.


-Paul

Melchior FRANZ wrote:

Hi,

* Robert Osfield -- Thursday 04 June 2009:

I don't think calling it bug clarifies anything, [...]


I didn't call it a "bug" to clarify anything, but because the current
behaviour is without any doubt broken. Maybe I should have used the
MS euphemism "issue" instead.  :-)

Your examples use the comparatively trivial 'a' and 'A' case. Here clients
can make the assumption that both are on the same physcial key (although
even that is problematic). So, for an  aaaAAA  sequence you can assume
that with the first 'a' physical key 38 was pressed, and with the third
'A' the same key was released.

But take '3' and '#' instead, and a sequence  333###. Here the client
has no way to realize that this was one and the same physical key 12.
It can *not* assume that the '#' is the successor of the '3' on the
same key. Because the two symbols are only on one key on US-keyboards.
On a German keyboard it's '3' and '§'. And clients know nothing about
the layout.

So there's not a question *if* release events have to be made up, but
*where*. This can be done in OSG, or in client software (given the
necessary, but currently missing information: the keycode). But it looks
like we already agree on that one.  :-)




One also will need to decide if press 'a' and hold down then press
shift, then press release shift to do aAa should you get the events:


True. The problem is that OSG events don't actually represent physical
keys, but symbols. (The keycode information is thrown away, after all). So 
IMHO we have to think in terms of keySym sequences. And for me aaAAAaa is

a-press ... a-release, A-press...A-release, a-press...a-release. The
shift modifier changes symbol 'a' to 'A', and it's IMHO hard to argue
that 'a' is still considered pressed during all of aaaAAA. That would
mean that for the client there's 'a' and 'A' pressed at the same time
for a while. That's especially bad if both keys are meant to have
antagonistic effects, which is rather common, I guess.




The proper solution probably lies in have raw keyboard events, and the
modified virtual events handled in some coherent fashion exactly what
I can't say yet.


Agreed. Maybe it's also time for others to add their wisdom, now that
we are already a bit tired and annoyed. (Aren't we?  ;-)

m.
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Re: [osg-users] Referencing loaded models

2009-05-23 Thread Paul Speed

Then something else is wrong.  The nodePath of your hits should be 
accurate to the specific node that was picked.


This is pretty routine stuff as anyone using a scene graph is likely to 
have nodes scattered in at least dozens of places around their scene graphs.


-Paul

Paul Griffiths wrote:

Kim C Bale wrote:

Could you not check the name of parent node to identify the instance of the 
child?

I might be wrong I haven't used the picking functionality for a while.

K.



Tried that but it always gives the parent node of the first instance.

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Re: [osg-users] Taking it easy for a couple of days

2009-05-14 Thread Paul Speed




Robert Osfield wrote:

On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 4:48 AM, Paul Speed  wrote:

If you ever need a quick "breather" to clear your head... drink pineapple
juice.  Something in it cuts through the crud but it doesn't last long.


I have a pinapple, but not any pinapple juice juice...

Will apple or orange juice do?


Since you asked... no, pretty much has to be pineapple.  Some acid 
specific to pineapple juice cuts through mucous.  I've made myself sick 
on the stuff before drinking so much of it trying to find moments of 
clear-headedness.  I never drink it otherwise but we always have some 
cans around just in case.


...if teleportation tech was reality then I'd forward you some. :)




...sometimes it's just enough to keep one sane, though. :)


That does make the assumption that one's well state in a sane one :-)


That is very true.  I guess it's all relative.
-Paul

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Re: [osg-users] Taking it easy for a couple of days

2009-05-13 Thread Paul Speed

If you ever need a quick "breather" to clear your head... drink 
pineapple juice.  Something in it cuts through the crud but it doesn't 
last long.


...sometimes it's just enough to keep one sane, though. :)

-Paul

Robert Osfield wrote:

HI All,

Thanks to all that have posted for the good will.

It's only a head cold, I might feel pretty grotty, but it's nothing
that a few days of taking it easy won't cure, even with and
underwhelming male immune system ;-)

Cheers,
Robert.
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Re: [osg-users] Change cursor with object under mouse

2009-05-13 Thread Paul Speed

Admittedly, I don't know exactly how you are setting up your window in 
Java... but why not use Java to set the cursor?


That's what we did.
-Paul

Romain Charbit wrote:

Hi,

Thanks for the answer,  that's what I was afraid of. But in fact, the graphic 
context of the app that I'am working on is made by Java, so I need this 
GraphicsWindowEmbedded. I'am gonna do it in another way :D

Thank you!

Cheers,
Romain


Romain Charbit

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Re: [osg-users] [forum] All Forum Users, PLEASE READ IT!

2009-05-08 Thread Paul Speed

If you read carefully and around the typos, Robert was threatening to 
unsubscribe people who comply by being rude.  ie: "Sure, I'll give you a 
last name, how about 'Joe RobertSucks'" or whatever.


I think he was specifically thinking of the "Real Name" poster 
recently... who, by the way, hadn't intended that to look like it did on 
the mailing list.


-Paul

o...@celticblues.com wrote:



Ridiculous Indeed! Agreed!  How can anyone say I was being un-civil?





Quoting Paul Melis :


Robert Osfield wrote:

Hi Ed,

You don't seem to have the threads on this topic.  The names are key
to tracking who's saying what over time.  If you can't do this then
you can properly hold a conservation.   If you are in crowded room and
you wish to address someone you don't just shout out to everybody, you
specifically address who you want to talk to, you need a name to do.
Also when someones says something in this crowded room and you don't
know who said it how are you to reply?  How are you to remember what
they've said previously or what you've said to them previously.  Once
you loose names you loose a fundamental part of how communication
works, it breaks down.

This is what are trying to do is stopping communication breaking down,
prevent it from becoming too difficult to us to use.

And please don't go adopting a name that takes the mikey.  If you
can't be civil then it only take me a minute to unsubscribe you.


WTF? Are you now threatening to unsubscribe people because they choose
to go by a first name and e-mail address only, while otherwise being
civil in their communications??

This is getting ridiculous...

Paul
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Re: [osg-users] [forum] All Forum Users, PLEASE READ IT!

2009-05-08 Thread Paul Speed

But how hard is it to make up a last name and keep it consistently as 
your OSG persona... so that we can easily distinguish you from 
potentially countless other "Ed"s?


It seems like a relatively minor thing to me and it does make a big 
difference in remembering who people are.


-Paul

o...@celticblues.com wrote:

Not trying to be argumentative here, but...

I am not being dishonest about who I am... Ed.  But that is all I wish 
to reveal for very good reasons.  I think it is possible to communicate 
with others without them knowing your full name, or any part of your 
name.  The communication is in the conversation, not in the name you tag 
on at the end.  As for free support requiring users to jump through this 
hoop... Ok, your project your choice.  But, how about a little more 
slack on this, considering you have a pretty large user base, all of 
whom seem to be more than willing to help test new features, deploy OSG 
into their systems, labs, etc, thereby propagating it throughout the 
community.  I think it is a two-way street.  Just my $0.02.


Definitely Ed

Quoting Robert Osfield :


Hi ??

The key is that you adopt a consistent online personal that others can
relate it.  Not adopting some form of human name is crap for everybody
else who interacts with you.

At personal level I find it obnoxious that people are not always
honest about who they are, but that's me.  I do realize that some may
wish to remain anonymous and sometimes there might even be actual
valid reasons for it, it doesn't make like this type of deceit, but it
does mean that I have to accept end users choice to remain anonymous.
 While accepting anonymity doesn't mean a free pass to come up with
any combination of random key combinations for an online identity.

Remember you are trying to communicate with real human beings, if you
want them to help you then you have to make the effort to communicate
in a form that is something that others can relate to.  If you want
free support then this is the hurdle you need to jump for mailing
lists users and forum users - it really isn't much of hurdle, if you
want anonymity then all you need to do is come up with an name for
your alter ego and stick with this.

Robert.


On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 4:12 PM,   wrote:

Does this apply to the mailing list or just the forum?  I would like to
object to this if it applies to the mailing list.  I don't specify my 
full

name for a very good reason.  The type of work I am doing is
proprietary/sensitive and don't want any questions I ask, even though 
I try

to ask generic enough questions, to reveal what I am doing, or how I am
doing it, and it be traceable to the company and my customer.  It 
would not
be a good thing for anyone on my side.  If someone wants to try to 
track me
down through my email, well, I can only do so much, with out 
considerable

more effort, but I do what I can.

Ed (or maybe, Matthew, Mark, Luke, Thomas, John, Freddy, or)



Quoting Art Tevs :


Hello dear forum users,

in order to establish a nice etiquette in our community, we have 
 decided
to suspend user accounts which do not correspond to forum's   rules. 
The main
reason is that a lot of forum users don't have valid  real names 
specified.
The problem in that is, that your posts are  also visible by the 
mailing

list members and that more or less blind  kind of conversation isn't
appropriate for our community. Please  take a look into this  
thread, written
by Robert Osfield: 
 http://forum.openscenegraph.org/viewtopic.php?t=2498 to

see what I  mean!!!

So, user accounts who's real names are either not full (by full we
 understand First and Last name) or are of some cryptic nature (e.g. 
 XMen,
3D Master, etc) will be put into moderation queue by me in the  next 
hours.
Messages posted by moderated/suspended accounts are not visible and 
 also
not forwarded to the mailing list, until they get approved by 
 moderatos.
Hence you still able to post, however until you do not  correct  
your profile
to match the forum rules 
 (http://forum.openscenegraph.org/rules.php) your

messages will not  be visible by other members of our community.
Hence if you like to join us, you are asked to follow the netiquette
 established in many years of mailing list era.

So again:
- you have to specify a valid real name in your profile. Valid real 
 name
is of type "First Last" name, for example "John McCourkey",  "Alice 
Smith",

etc...
 - Names with more than 2 words are allowed, e.g. "Hans Peter Maier".
 - If it is not appropriate to have such names in your culture or  you
want to preserve some kind of anonymity, then please use a  
 pseudonym (which
match the both previous points!!!), however use it  persistently  in 
all your

communications within our community.
 - you can disable "Always show my realname" in your profile  settings,
then your name wouldn't be visible on the forum and will  also not be
indexed by Google etc when indexing the forum page!  However it will 
still
b

Re: [osg-users] Support becoming less and less personal

2009-05-08 Thread Paul Speed




Julia Guo wrote:


Paul Speed: 
We could probably short-circuit a lot just be splitting into two groups and calling one "experts" and the other "beginners"... and no one would have to bother joining the second one. ;)


g I hope not. I would have given up on OSG if noobs like me were assigned to a 
ghetto forum.


:)  Yeah, I was being facetious.  The logical progression on breaking 
the list into multiple lists is that everyone would join the list that 
Robert is watching and probably ignore the others.  And if Robert is 
watching all of the lists then it defeats the purpose...


Hmmm... unless we named the other list "Don't join this list"... in my 
experience we'd get lots of subscribers.


-Paul

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Re: [osg-users] Support becoming less and less personal

2009-05-06 Thread Paul Speed




Martin Beckett wrote:

rosme wrote:

If so, how to organize things better to be prepared for a much larger user 
community?


One option is to split general up into more sub-topics (Beginners, c++, OpenGL, 
Geometry, Files etc) then people can direct their interest/expertise to 
answering those questions.

Of course it doesn't guarantee people will post in the appropriate forum (and 
not cross post) but it's a possibility.

Martin


The problem I see with this is that it doesn't really work unless Robert 
and the other experts are ignoring certain groups.  Otherwise, reading 
e-mail in five lists all the time is slightly more painful than reading 
from one but basically no different.


And if that's the case, it only takes a little while before people sort 
out the expert lists from the non-expert and start posting every 
question there instead.  The people who don't figure that out aren't 
going to notice which list they should be posting to anyway and will 
just pick a random one.  We've all seen it happen.  "Oh, I thought since 
I was using OpenGL in C++ that I should post to the C++ group..."  Or "I 
didn't post to the beginner group because I wanted experts to answer it."


We could probably short-circuit a lot just be splitting into two groups 
and calling one "experts" and the other "beginners"... and no one would 
have to bother joining the second one. ;)


The forums and mailing lists that have lots of users and low noise are 
heavily moderated.


-Paul

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Re: [osg-users] Support becoming less and less personal

2009-05-06 Thread Paul Speed

Art Tevs wrote:

mgb_osg wrote:

Except you can't edit it or create an account on it.
And the wiki link takes you to the front page of the site

Guys, please, don't go offtopic :) Yes, there is a wiki page, however a lot of
new users, which are active on the ML or forum, doesn't read the wikis well as
Gordon wrote already.

What we need is a solution for that problem. I wouldn't like to cutoff forum,
and I think also no of the ~300 users of the forum would also like to make so.
Yes, signal to noise ratio on forums is more then on pure ML only. However, as
some of you has already stated out, this is more or less a social problem then
the engineering one. However, in order to make it better, we require some
strict rules/filters etc for a proper etiquette.

So, what forum moderators could do is to
1. filter out users, with non-appropriate real names - what do we meen by non appropriate names? Is only a first name already appropriate? How about users who would like to keep some kind of anonymization, by using only the first name. Are names with two letters ok, as used by our asian friends, i.e. Li, Xi, ... ? There was already a thread about that, but at the end there was no real, concrete answer to this!

2. Force to use some kind of template, when posting a reply or new topic. This
is already in use and is sometimes used by the users. Template is set as
default message, when posting something. So any user, who see this, should
understand what is this good for.

3. Should user's reply always include a quote of the previous message? I do not
really like such things, because they unnecessary pollute the threads. Yeah,
there is even a pollution from some of the email clients there, which do quote
the message in very strange manner. Which makes the reading very hard. So this
is not only a problem of forum users.

4. Should users be forced to have a signature, which describes him/her somehow
or just have some appropriate name in the signature. What about users which are
using ML only and do not have signatures? Do we also exclude them from the
community?

And please guys, do also think about that not only forum users are responsible
for bad etiquette in our community. What to do with such ML users? I agree with
and understand Robert, however, Robert, you should also understand, that some
of the things just cannot be solved in a programmer way. There are people who
just not able to follow very simple rules and we shouldn't close our community
also to them, I think ;)

One thing keeps coming up... technology will not solve this problem.

On other mailing lists/forums this has been dealt with by aggressive
moderation. In those cases, my first four or five posts always went
into the moderation queue until a moderator let them through. After the
moderators see enough posts from someone to figure out they aren't a
chuckle-head then they get unmoderated access.

It can be expensive in terms of human expense but it definitely keeps
the noise down. Perhaps some group of volunteers who care about
Robert's sanity and keeping the mailing list and forum linked can
volunteer as noob monitors.

I suppose an alternative is to let the readers be selective by marking
clearly in the subject if the message is from the forum. If a thread
gets a lot of posts then it will become more interesting to those who
might otherwise ignore a "[forum]" message.

Noob content moderation is still the only truly effective way
if the other issues can be worked out.

-Paul

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Re: [osg-users] Support becoming less and less personal

2009-05-06 Thread Paul Speed




Art Tevs wrote:


3. I still do not understand whats wrong with having only the first name in the profile. I 
understand that we need to be able to track message sent by the users before, but this is done by 
the forum's software automatically. You can get the history of message. If I have a discussion with 
somebody, I do not care, if his name is "John Clooney" or "John Montgomery". 
Yeah, even google-mail client, do remove the last part of the name, so that only first name is 
visible ;)


I think that is because you are the only Art on the list. :)

When I see a message from a "-Paul", I like to be able to glance up and 
know whether it's Melis or Martz... without having to click a link or 
remember which potentially cryptic e-mail address belongs to them.




I think this is also the reason, why almost half of the forum users, do put only their first names in their profile. I mean people still want to stay somehow "anonymized" and I think this are their rights. 


Fine to be anonymous as long as it is a consistent pseudonym that the 
rest of us can treat as a real name.  Someone on the mailing lists used 
to post for years that way (don't remember who but it was related to 
their job or something).


-Paul (Speed, !Martz, !Melis)

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Re: [osg-users] Multiple Shaders Performance Question

2009-04-28 Thread Paul Speed

To be pedantic... mostly because I've been on the wrong side of this 
argument before and been proven wrong...  Only back then I could only 
dream of doing the type graphics we can do now at even 60 hz.  Those 
arguments were related to film speeds. :)


There is no reason to send frames to your display faster than its 
refresh but that doesn't mean that 120 hz display won't look better than 
a 60 hz display.  Drive your display as fast as it will refresh and no 
faster.


Ignoring for a second that some stereo displays will want to be driven 
at 120 hz... even assuming it's purely for aesthetic reasons the eye 
will notice a difference in smoothness of movement between 120 hz and 60 
hz.  Though it all depends on how much movement.


As a thought experiment (unless you have access to 120 hz display and if 
so I'm envious), imagine moving something on screen one pixel per frame 
and something right next to it moving two pixels every two frames.  The 
second simulates 60 hz movement compared to 120 hz movement.  Increase 
the rate of movement until you notice the 60 hz object jerking... though 
I suspect the first object will look smoother right away.


...just saying. :)

And in some industries, it is not a human eye that is using the display...

-Paul

Philip Taylor wrote:

Paul,

Running at 120Hz is rather extreme since the human eye can't really
appreciate a frame rate higher than 60Hz - OK monitors are normally rated at
approx 75Hz to be flicker free, but 60Hz is "the norm". With this in mind,
you might be able to hide this missed frame by simply reducing your frame
rate.

PhilT

-Original Message-
From: osg-users-boun...@lists.openscenegraph.org
[mailto:osg-users-boun...@lists.openscenegraph.org]on Behalf Of Robert
Osfield
Sent: 28 April 2009 09:29
To: OpenSceneGraph Users
Subject: Re: [osg-users] Multiple Shaders Performance Question


Hi Paul,

Different drivers manage compilation and linking in different ways on
different drivers so it's hard to give any hard rules.

In general making sure your scene graph is pre-compile before
rendering helps avoid most problems with compiles occur during
rendering.

Robert.

On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 2:46 AM,   wrote:

I have multiple shaders. I attach one shader to the root of the scene

graph. I then load in objects and attach one of another set of shaders to
the root of the object and attach it to the main scene graph. When I say
"attach a shader", I'm loading a fragment and vertex shader from a file and
attaching them to a new Program object each time. I then attach the Program
object to the object's state set.

Is there any performance advantage to doing it this way or creating one

Program object for each shader and attach these same Program object to my
objects. Or should I be creating a set of StateSet's and attaching the
appropriate StateSet to my object based on the Shader I want to use.

To complicate things, I have multiple cameras used to render to multiple

Frame Buffer Objects.

What I'm seeing is a (single) missed frame when an object with a "new"

shader appears in the Field of View (running at 120Hz)?

Could OSG be attempting to "recompile" my shader? Is driver downloading

the shader each time to the video card.

Paul P.



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Re: [osg-users] Object oriented coding

2009-04-02 Thread Paul Speed

Note that the e-mail address was only viewable by forum members.  I'm 
not a member and couldn't see it.


May be small consolation, I guess.

-Paul

Tomas Lundberg wrote:
Thank you. I will check it out. 


Can you please edit the replies and remove my name and email? I have chosen the 
settings not to publish name and email, but they still appear just before 
quoted text it seems.

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Re: [osg-users] [forum] 200 users mark reached :)

2009-03-25 Thread Paul Speed

I never said it would be easy to fix. :)

Some forums I've used do thread messages... but even in that case I
think it would be hard to implement this properly. You'd have to
somehow synch up the forum-posted messages with their mailing list
counterparts.

It just means that any thread with forum posts in it takes on a very
different structure... and sometimes this is confusing without going
back through the whole thread or its recent posts.

-Paul

Art Tevs wrote:

Hi Paul,

hmm, ok I see the issue. However I have no clue how I should correct this or
better to say, there is almost no way to correct this, because the way how
forum posts and mails are handled is different.

Look, whenever a user is reply to a topic it means, he is replying to the main
post, so to the very first post in this thread. This is how forum is acting. If
a user now uses an email and replies to an email, he is replying to the current
one, which can be one of the whole thread. For the forum this can also be
achieved in that way, if user do reply on a post by quoting the previous one
(i.e. press Quote, instead of Reply Button).

The default behaviour of a forum user is to press reply and not to quote the previous message.
Hence how should I get know if user now want to answer the previous post, the very first post or
just one of the posts of the complete thread. Hence, I am not sure if I could come up with a
solution for this. The one thing which I could try to implement is to reply on the previous post if
user hits "Quote" and to reply on the very first post if user hits "Reply".
However this is very hard to solve, because mail client are generating message ids in a random way
from the forum side of view. I do not really see a way of solving that at now.

Cheers,
art

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Re: [osg-users] [forum] 200 users mark reached :)

2009-03-24 Thread Paul Speed


From the header for the message to which I'm responding: (from you)
Message-ID: <1237932668.m2f.9...@forum.openscenegraph.org>
References: <1237905007.m2f.9...@forum.openscenegraph.org>
In-Reply-To: <1237905007.m2f.9...@forum.openscenegraph.org>

The message to which yours is a response: (from me)
Message-ID: <49c95673.8020...@progeeks.com>
References: <1237905007.m2f.9...@forum.openscenegraph.org>
<1237931059.m2f.9...@forum.openscenegraph.org>
In-Reply-To: <1237931059.m2f.9...@forum.openscenegraph.org>

The "root" message for the thread: (from you)
Message-ID: <1237905007.m2f.9...@forum.openscenegraph.org>

So, they all go in the right thread, but beyond that the threading for 
messages is totally lost.  Your response to my message looks like it is 
a response to your own message.


The thread so far (to me) looks like:
Art
  -Robert
  -Art
-Paul
-Robert
  -Art
-Paul
  -Art

...and no matter how deep the sub-threads go, a forum post will always 
drop back out to the root of the thread.


-Paul

Art Tevs wrote:

Hi Paul,



...now, if only messages from the forum would thread properly... ;) ;) ;)




Do you have the same issue with In-Reply-To Header in the mails sent from the forum? Hmm, I took a look into the message sent for this thread and it seems that the header is there, so threading should be possible. 
Even more with Google-Mail all the forum email are always threaded properly for me.


I would like to solve this issue, however I have then first to find a mail 
client, which do not thread well. Which one do you use? Version?
I will install this also on my machine and maybe I would be able to find out 
what happening there.

Cheers,
art

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Re: [osg-users] [forum] 200 users mark reached :)

2009-03-24 Thread Paul Speed




Art Tevs wrote:


However, guys, I do not open again a hot discussion about advantages of any of 
this systems. With this forum we have matched the needs of both worlds, so the 
one who like to use ML subscribe there, the one who prefers Forums instead, 
will use it.

Good evening to all of you guys and best regards :)
Art



...now, if only messages from the forum would thread properly... ;) ;) ;)

-Paul

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Re: [osg-users] [forum] 200 users mark reached :)

2009-03-24 Thread Paul Speed




Art Tevs wrote:


This also matches with my expectation, that all new users will probably start 
to use the forum.



To be pedantic, that's a somewhat bold claim. :)

I, for one, will always join a mailing list if available for something 
I'm actually using.  The only times I've ever registered to a forum are 
when a) a mailing list doesn't exist, and/or b) I was only fooling 
around with the technology for a few days but needed to post a question.


And universally, the forums of which I'm a member I have _never_ kept up 
with all of the posts... maybe not even a significant percentage.  I 
keep up with all of the posts of _every_ mailing list to which I'm a member.


Not trying to beat a dead horse... just pointing out that the usage 
profile is entirely different.  The mailing list is more likely to get 
dedicated users.  The forum is more likely to get the cursory users. 
There will be some amount overlap, perhaps favoring the forums for those 
accustomed to hitting reload a lot.  :)


-Paul

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Re: [osg-users] Multithreadingcrash due toosgDb::Registry::instance()

2009-03-20 Thread Paul Speed

I remember the first time I heard about the double-checked locking 
problem five years ago or more and then wasting an afternoon trying to 
understand what the heck was going on.  I was never the same again.


I sometimes long for those halcyon days when the universe was a simpler 
place. :)


-Paul

J.P. Delport wrote:

Hi all,

for those interested in instruction order issues, these videos might be 
interesting (search google video):


* Herb Sutter - Machine Architecture: Things Your Programming Language 
Never Told You


* IA Memory Ordering

There is quite a bit of work going into the next C++ standard to address 
some of these issues. Sutter & others have written a lot about it in the 
last few months, a search should send you down the rabbit hole.


cheers
jp

I-Nixon, Anthony D wrote:

Thanks for the pointer Paul.  The points you raise do apply to C++ as
well, and it seems the consensus is that it is not possible to implement
the double-checked locking pattern in portable C++ safely.

See Scott Meyer's and Andrei Alexandrescu's paper here
http://www.aristeia.com/Papers/DDJ_Jul_Aug_2004_revised.pdf 
If Scott Meyer's says it can't be done, I tend to believe him :-)



From Scott's paper:


"In many cases, initializing a singleton resource during single-threaded
program startup
(e.g., prior to executing main) is the simplest way to offer fast,
thread-safe
singleton access."

So the best thing to do is to advertise in large bold letters somewhere
in the doco (and FAQ) that if you are going to use multithreading, all
instances need to be accessed before threading starts.

Anthony


-Original Message-
From: Paul Speed [mailto:psp...@progeeks.com] Sent: Friday, 20 March 
2009 2:21 AM

To: OpenSceneGraph Users
Subject: Re: [osg-users] Multithreadingcrash due 
toosgDb::Registry::instance()


Just a note for those of us who have been bitten by double check 
locking issues in Java, this technique is highly dependent on the 
threading and data architecture in use.  There are subtle issues 
between when a thread commits its local state and the possibility for 
the compiler to reorder statements.  This was less of an issue on 
single-core boxes but comes up in multi-core where the local thread 
state may not be committed.  I can't be sure but there may have also 
been some subtle statement reordering issues with respect to the 
compiler not knowing that your guard release _must_ be run after the 
instance_ = new Singleton has _fully_ executed.


I don't know if these problems crop up in C++ but it certainly seems 
like they could depending on the threading implementation and 
compiler optimization strategy.


Worst case for a singleton pattern is that you might get a race 
condition where two instances are created.  There are other 
double-checked locking situations that are much more insidious.


-Paul

Paul Melis wrote:

Robert Osfield wrote:
2009/3/17 Schmidt, Richard <mailto:richard.schm...@eads.com>>


http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/PDF/DC-Locking.pdf
<http://www.cs.wustl.edu/%7Eschmidt/PDF/DC-Locking.pdf>


Could you explain what the above document is all about...
I just read it an it describes a pattern where you use a mutex to 
guard access to the singleton's _instance value, but in such a way 
that the mutex is only needed when _instance == NULL, i.e.


class Singleton
{
public:
   static Singleton *instance (void)
   {
// First check
if (instance_ == 0)
   {
  // Ensure serialization (guard constructor 

acquires lock_).

 Guard guard (lock_);
 // Double check.
 if (instance_ == 0)
  instance_ = new Singleton;
   }
return instance_;
// guard destructor releases lock_.
   }
private:
   static Mutex lock_;
   static Singleton *instance_;
};

This should give you thread-safe access to Singleton->instance() at 
all times combined with correct initialization.


Quite neat actually,
Paul
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Re: [osg-users] Multithreading crash due toosgDb::Registry::instance()

2009-03-19 Thread Paul Speed

Just a note for those of us who have been bitten by double check locking 
issues in Java, this technique is highly dependent on the threading and 
data architecture in use.  There are subtle issues between when a thread 
commits its local state and the possibility for the compiler to reorder 
statements.  This was less of an issue on single-core boxes but comes up 
in multi-core where the local thread state may not be committed.  I 
can't be sure but there may have also been some subtle statement 
reordering issues with respect to the compiler not knowing that your 
guard release _must_ be run after the instance_ = new Singleton has 
_fully_ executed.


I don't know if these problems crop up in C++ but it certainly seems 
like they could depending on the threading implementation and compiler 
optimization strategy.


Worst case for a singleton pattern is that you might get a race 
condition where two instances are created.  There are other 
double-checked locking situations that are much more insidious.


-Paul

Paul Melis wrote:

Robert Osfield wrote:
2009/3/17 Schmidt, Richard >


http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/PDF/DC-Locking.pdf



Could you explain what the above document is all about...
I just read it an it describes a pattern where you use a mutex to guard 
access to the singleton's _instance value, but in such a way that the 
mutex is only needed when _instance == NULL, i.e.


class Singleton
{
public:
   static Singleton *instance (void)
   {
// First check
if (instance_ == 0)
   {
  // Ensure serialization (guard constructor acquires lock_).
 Guard guard (lock_);
 // Double check.
 if (instance_ == 0)
  instance_ = new Singleton;
   }
return instance_;
// guard destructor releases lock_.
   }
private:
   static Mutex lock_;
   static Singleton *instance_;
};

This should give you thread-safe access to Singleton->instance() at all 
times combined with correct initialization.


Quite neat actually,
Paul
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Re: [osg-users] Forum users rare uses signatures, which is a pain tracking who's who

2009-03-18 Thread Paul Speed

And I am using threading by subject and so they all end up in the same 
thread... but they are out of context within that thread since 
Thunderbird doesn't know which specific post to drop them off of.


A little annoying but at least it's a clear indicator that it is a forum 
post... and therefore likely to be only one or two lines without any 
inline reference to the previous post... and along the lines of "Yeah, 
me too." or "fifth post!!!"... :)  I kid because I care. ;)


-Paul

Paul Melis wrote:

Hi,

Art Tevs wrote:
hmm, yes it seems there are no In-Reply-To header tag, when a message 
is sent through the forum. But I has never recieved any threading 
issue with the message, since my mail client is able to thread them by 
the subject. You are first who raised this issue ;), maybe your mail 
client has to be setted up properly,   
Actually, I use thunderbird and have specifically disabled 
threading-by-subject, as it simply does not work well enough and I have 
too many other mailboxes besides OSG where threading-by-subject would 
lead to incorrect results. I'm not going to enable it globally (and 
there doesn't seem to be a way in thunderbird to enable 
thread-by-subject for a single mailbox).  It happens quite frequently 
that a new thread is started with a subject that matches an older 
thread. With threading-by-subject the new messages will end up in the 
existing (unrelated) thread and therefore in the wrong place. Using the 
in-reply-to headers is the only reliable way to thread, although a few 
heuristics could probably help here.


Paul
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Re: [osg-users] openscenegraph.org stats

2009-02-27 Thread Paul Speed




Jean-Sébastien Guay wrote:

Hi Paul,

Just thought it was funny because just earlier today I was going 
through another box and found my well turned, hand-printed, Glide 
manual.  Was a fun trip thumbing through that.


Heh, I had one of those too! :-)

And what's more, I actually have two "nostalgia machines" which I plug 
in once in a while. The first has a Cirrus Logic CL-GD5428 card (1MB, 
yessir), and the other has a Voodoo2 12MB. I'll probably keep those till 
I die, just because that was the time when it all started for me, even 
though every time we move my s/o asks why I waste space with those old 
computers...


J-S


I'm actually embarrassed to admit all of the old hardware I have 
"shelved" in my closet here at the house.  Old 486 motherboards (66 mhz 
up to a DX4x100).  Probably the saddest one is the old VFX-1 VR helmet. 
 Pretty cool for consumer electronics.  Hard to imagine now the 
frankenstein like setups to get something like that running: 3dfx 
chained to a diamond video card chained to the VR card.


The fun part is when I finally decide something really is dead and I 
disassemble it down to the last screw to show my 5 year old son how 
things work.  We stripped a hard-drive down to the platters and magnets 
the other night.


It is part of his heritage after all. ;)
-Paul

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Re: [osg-users] openscenegraph.org stats

2009-02-27 Thread Paul Speed




Jean-Sébastien Guay wrote:

Hi Old Man Martz,

;-)

Sorry I keep taking us down memory lane, but I think it's important to 
look

at parallels with historical events.


Oh no, I find this really interesting. I got onto the "3D scene" from a 
gaming/demoscene background, on the PC in the early 90s. So I'm aware of 
what transpired in the first days of "commodity/gaming 3D accelerators" 
around 1995-1998 (3dfx Voodoo 1,2,3; Riva 128,TNT,TNT2; Matrox 
Mystique,Mystique 220; Rendition Verité v1000,v2x00; etc.) but I know 
only a little concerning what happened in the professional/large-scale 
3D arena (SGIs, etc.).


So as much as I'm considered an old geezer for some topics and I like 
croning about those things, I'm always interested when some other old 
geezer recounts ye olde days from another perspective.


Crone on, brotha! :-)

J-S


Memories...

I had a fire in my home office in October.  I was able to put it out 
without too much damage but the entire upper floor of my house was 
covered with soot.  Consequently, I've been going through old boxes of 
stuff the cleaning crew brought back and walking down memory lane _a lot_.


Just thought it was funny because just earlier today I was going through 
another box and found my well turned, hand-printed, Glide manual.  Was a 
fun trip thumbing through that.  Fun to see the old 3dfx stuff come up 
again.


-Paul

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Re: [osg-users] openscenegraph.org stats

2009-02-27 Thread Paul Speed




Jean-Sébastien Guay wrote:

Hi Paul,

I don't quite understand how open standards work, and how they're 
different from me just saying "here's a document that defines 
something, I hereby declare it standard". Where do you draw the line? 
I would have thought the term standard carried more weight and 
couldn't be just used by anyone.


And another thing I don't understand about open standards: if any 
consortium or group can start a standard, how can anyone say that a 
given open standard is *the* standard for something? Like Robert said 
that OpenGL is *the* standard for graphics...


Hypothetical situation: As I see it, if Microsoft decided to make a 
standards committee for Direct3D and other companies joined, it would be 
just as much a standard for graphics as OpenGL is. None of the two would 
be able to say they're *the* standard for graphics unless some 
independent body decided that it was one or the other...


Yes, if MS did that they would have a competing open standard.  Though 
none of us would probably care much since the earth would have shifted 
off of its axis and hurtled into the sun. ;)


As it is, they are their own declared standard.  De facto.  Like Windows 
is a standard.  Even their ISO standards are so encumbered as to really 
skirt the line.




If that's the case, then the fact that there are many competing 
standards is just because of the nature of open standards. And the fact 
that in graphics, OpenGL is the only standard is just because no one 
else has bothered making their API standard (Direct3D in this case).


Yes.



Or is there something I'm missing here too?


What if there were a world with no hypothetical questions? :)
-Paul

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Re: [osg-users] openscenegraph.org stats

2009-02-27 Thread Paul Speed




Jean-Sébastien Guay wrote:

Hi Robert,


I don't expect to win your over, but I sure want to correct things as
see as off target so that others in the community don't get the wrong
impression about stuff like OpenGL, etc.


I'm still not convinced that OpenGL itself can be considered a 
"standard", but that's mostly semantics. opengl.org has "industry 
standard" in the page title, but that term is mostly marketing and 
doesn't mean much. MS could say Windows is the "industry standard" OS 
because it's widely used. It doesn't make it an actual standard.


But anyways, if it's a standard then more power to them! They should put 
"The standard for high performance graphics" instead of "industry 
standard" IMHO, but that's still just semantics.


I hate it when I start arguing semantics and it appears that I'm going 
against something I'm actually quite fond of and use everyday. Sorry for 
going off the mark (once again).


J-S


I guess the rest of us spectators are just confused about what OpenGL 
would have to do to become a standard using your metrics.  Where is the 
bar set and why are they not reaching it?


-Paul

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Re: [osg-users] OFT: Interesting commentary of the future of OpenGL

2009-02-25 Thread Paul Speed

I was originally attracted to OSG because it was "to the metal". There
are many scene graphs and "engines" that abstract away the rendering
engine. They either suffer from a least-common-denominator effect or
they are so high level to have abstracted all of the really juicy bits.
In the latter case, you tend to become beholden on them to implement
new features.

In OSG, when a new extension comes out, it's pretty straight-forward to
figure out how it fits in.

I'll admit that the last time I did any D3D programming was a while
back. (Maybe DX8 was still new timeframe.) Still, the mindset of D3D
programming was very different from OpenGL. I don't expect that this
has changed much with DX9/10.

For me, if I were to build my own engine versus licensing quake, unreal,
source, whatever... and if I cared about cross API support (why would
I?) then I'd abstract at the engine level and build my own scene graph.
Anything that isn't already "to the metal" isn't customizable enough.
Things like OSG really are very extensible but tied to an API.
Abstracting above the scene graph is not as beneficial. More likely,
I'd decide to be cross-platform and build to OpenGL. Or I'd decide to
be windows specific and build to D3D. (Xbox arguments aside for the
moment.)

There has to be a reason more of these cross-api scene graphs don't
exist... but a google search for api-specific ones yields plenty.

-Paul

Sukender wrote:

Hi Robert,

Reading your post, I'm thinking that if we forsee a failure in having an API agnostic OSG, then we may then change our
mind and keep having a "close-to OpenGL" scenegraph, as for OSG 2. A good "OpenGL only" would be
better than a bad "everything allowed". I hope we'll succeed in this "API agnostic OSG", but we
should not be obstinated if we see it is not possible with our goals of having a good toolkit.
In the case of the failure, maybe we could consider having an intermediate
solution by supporting, for example, OpenGL-ES or OpenCL only (in addition to
OpenGL).

Causes of the failure could be, as you mentioned:
- Noticeable loss of performance
- Noticeable loss of features
- Unconvenient API

And about the forecast: "Better sooner than later"... If we see it when
planning or when in a prototyping phase, that would be - of course - much better.
Thoughts?

Sukender
PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/

Le Wed, 25 Feb 2009 21:33:27 +0100, Robert Osfield a
écrit:

Hi Cory,

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Cory Riddell wrote:

I don't understand how anybody can think being OS agnostic is
good, but renderer agnosticism is bad (ideologically). I do understand
however, that development resources are scarce and the programmers get
to work on whatever they want to work on.

Being rendering agnostic is not ideal in terms of providing a thin
layer ontop of the underlying functionaliy, being rendering agnostic
requires you to abstract the interface from the implementation and in
doing so you loose the direct mapping which can help with both
performance and exposing underlying features in a flexible and
convenient way. The OSG has so far embraced the approach of this
very close mapping between OpenGL and equivalent OSG structures right
down to modes being direct pass through from osg::StateSet to OpenGL.

By going rendering agnostic we loose this convenience and if we aren't
careful performance with it. It's really hard to get a good
rendering agnostic API that doesn't loose performance and drop
features to ensure a common denominator between APIs. Being rendering
agnostic is not free from cost, so it should be at all surprising that
one might be very wary of going rendering API agnostic.

Once you do embrace being rendering API agonostic you carry the
overheads of this design approach for all time going forward, and
unless you really do need multiple rendering API's at the backend that
are going to be properly maintained they the costs of going agnostic
are far higher than that of sticking with the thin layer that the OSG
has right now. For us to make the move we have to ensure that we
both have a design that will work well, and we have the resources to
implement it and maintain it going forward. We also have to make sure
that we can carry the existing community with us on this journey.

Robert.
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Re: [osg-users] osg Image and PNG writer

2009-02-23 Thread Paul Speed




Vincent Bourdier wrote:
[snip]

data[n+3] = 1.0;


This isn't your problem with the image not saving but I think it will 
hit you eventually.  data is a char array and you are setting a float. 
I think you really want to be setting 0xff or 255.


-Paul

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Re: [osg-users] OpenSceneGraph Blog goes live!

2009-02-15 Thread Paul Speed




Robert Osfield wrote:

On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Sukender  wrote:

Hi Ulrich and Paul, hi all

IMHO, the blog should be more a "public billboard". Something with:
- far less information than the mailing list (or forum)
- info about OSG milestones
- a bit of "OSG advertisment"
- a *little bit* of "advertisment" from major or original works based on OSG
- [add your ideas here]

...my 2 cents...


Take these 2 cents and a little compound interest - Sukender
encapsulates a lot of what I'd expect a blog to cover.  Also think of
it as a development diary, it's a broadcast model where complete 2 way
communication isn't the priority.  The volume of traffic is several
orders of magnitude less as well.  I don't see it as a substitute for
mailing list/forum, rather just a compliment.

Robert.


Thanks for the additional info.  I guess some of us were just wondering 
if the info would also be posted to the mailing list or if we would be 
missing something by not checking the blog.


-Paul

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Re: [osg-users] OpenSceneGraph Blog goes live!

2009-02-13 Thread Paul Speed




Ulrich Hertlein wrote:

On 14/2/09 1:13 AM, Robert Osfield wrote:

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 2:00 PM,  wrote:
Very nice :) However, the blog says "...will be a place for 
OpenSceneGraph

developers/contributors to post news". But who have write access?


Just me and Jose L. right now.  It does look I can add others to 
enable them to log in.
Good candidates for others who would be appropriate to get a log into 
be able to post
would be project leads of various 3rd party NodeKits, or major 
contributors.  If you'd

like to be able to post to the blog please just raise you hand.


Forgive my scepticism but isn't this a bit like the mailinglist-vs-forum 
discussion?


(IMHO the cross-posting from/to the forum has solved that problem 
admirably, satisfying both camps.)


Will the blog be another place to visit/watch for information on OSG?  
Yes I know RSS makes it almost trivial to check but still: what 
information will be posted on the blog and what on the mailing list?


I don't mean to throw a spanner in the works, I believe blogs are good 
media for one-to-many communication but rather not so much for discussions.


Cheers,
/ulrich


I had the same question... so I'm glad someone asked.  Despite my best 
intentions, I never end up checking forums/blogs/rss regularly where as 
mailing list traffic comes to me and can't be missed.


One of these days, I'll setup my RSS traffic to e-mail me...
-Paul

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Re: [osg-users] OSG build - xulrunner -nooby question

2009-02-12 Thread Paul Speed




Alasdair Campbell wrote:

On Thu, 2009-02-12 at 18:16 +0100, Paul Melis wrote:

Hi,

Alasdair Campbell wrote:

Hi all, I am new to this list but was inspired to join the mailing list
following your landmark release of 2.8.0 Congratulations to all
  

Welcome! A point of nettique though: please don't start a new subject by
replying to existing post, but simply make a new post to the list. In
this case you replied to a thread on memory leak detection on windows,
to which you post has nothing to add.


Hi Paul, thank you for replying, but I have no idea what you are talking
about with respect to nettique (sic). As sure as I am living, I did not
reply to any post, and simply started a new thread. There is absolutely
no reference to any other post in my email, well not that I can see?? Am
I crazy, or what? Can anyone on this list support Paul's view, and if so
explain what I did to offend.


How did you "start a new thread"?  What e-mail client are you using?

The message you submitted had as reference the following message IDs in 
its header:

<20090211143545.0360f.403984.r...@web09-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
<4992ed99.8000...@cm-labs.com>
<4992f614.3030...@codeware.com>
<4992fad9.4000...@cm-labs.com>
<10cf64e606897b4999da59c84ed149682a2...@oxfadc001.aristechnologies.com>
<7ffb8e9b0902120431j1341290eq20fec810c936b...@mail.gmail.com>
<006c01c98d13$4f486790$edd936...@com>

<10cf64e606897b4999da59c84ed149682a2...@oxfadc001.aristechnologies.com>

Which happen to be the message IDs from all of the messages in the 
"memory leak" thread.


So, it looks to all of us who use threaded e-mail clients that you 
simply had the last message in that thread selected and hit the "Reply" 
button.  Thus it looks like you are continuing that thread instead of 
starting a new one.


Unless your mail client is doing something very strange.
-Paul

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Re: [osg-users] LWO loading problem

2009-02-06 Thread Paul Speed




Robert Osfield wrote:

On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 7:47 PM, Paul Speed  wrote:

I wonder if there is a VS warning that would have found this...   ;)


No .. but it was my attempt at fixing a gcc warning that introduced this bug...

Basically every change you make to the code is prone to error, and no
matter how thorough you try to be, compiler errors never give know
when the algorithm is wrong, just the syntax.  The vast majority of
programming errors are algorithm related like this one, it's one only
code reviews and code testing that actually catch the vast majority of
errors.

This particular bug is a good example of the double edge sword of
attempting warning fixes.

Robert.


Totally.  I was just seeing if I could here a scream in the key of 
Scottish brogue from all the way across the Atlantic.  ;)


-Paul

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Re: [osg-users] LWO loading problem

2009-02-06 Thread Paul Speed




Robert Osfield wrote:

On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 9:35 PM, Csaba Halász  wrote:

On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 10:16 PM, Csaba Halász  wrote:

Rev 9397 is the first non-working revision. Looks like a lot of
int-long changes, which seems to agree with your 64 bit theory. Except
it is broken on 32 bit too.

LOL, it is one for Sukender's list :)

   for(int i=0; i<4; ++i)
   {
   *dest_ptr = *src_ptr;
   }

Can you spot the error? :)


No pointer increments!!

God what I dumbo I can be sometimes...

Robert,


I wonder if there is a VS warning that would have found this... ducks for cover>  ;)


-Paul

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Re: [osg-users] [osgPhysics] Project osgPhysics started!

2009-01-14 Thread Paul Speed

My experience is admittedly limited here, but I think some of us are
coming from the position that your physics "graph" is an entirely
different thing than the render "graph". The two are often completely
orthogonal.

In one case you may have physics body represented by something simple
like a ball... where as for various implementation reasons your scene
graph may need to be a whole pile of objects. Conversely, sometimes a
whole mess of physics parts/bodies/bones/whatever may decompose into a
single mesh and a custom shader to move the points around.

While there may be parts similar between a physics "node" and a scene
graph "node", I'm not sure they are similar enough to justify being
related in a class hierarchy.

...and maybe you are already taking all of that into consideration and
I've misunderstood the conversation so far. It just sounds like you are
trying to have the physics engine directly "act" on scene graph nodes
versus transferring values transform information from the physics nodes
to the scene graph nodes. I think you will pay dearly for the
"convenience". :)

-Paul

Sukender wrote:

Hi David,

Well, what we intend to do is simply provide a "plug" so that you can do what you want.
Morover, the osgPhysics' aim is to drive nodes in the graph by the way of physics. We don't plan to
make physic objects to be "cullable", or things like that. Changeing the renderer (like
raytracing) would not affect things handled by osgPhysics.
I hope this is a bit clearer! :)

About Adrian, I also discussed a few points with him, and I may contribute to
PAL too. And yes, he's in Australia... Wang Rui (osgPhysics, osgNV) is in
China, and I'm in France... well it may be difficult to be all online for a
chat, but we still can work :)

Sukender
PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/

I guess I understand why people do it, but I would rather that OSG kept the
limited scope of being a scene graph, that is with the features just of doing
3d rendering. I think a more limited scope makes it more useful as a drop in
component of a game engine.

physics and audio, while they are necessary in a game or simulation engine,
they are not rendered, and I don't think they belong in a scene graph. In
delta3d, we have, and are more and more trying to separate things such as
drawing, physics, and audio from simulated objects (actors) so that actors can
be composed of these features via componentization and messaging. We would
eventually even like delta3d to have the ability to use different renderers.

As technologies like raytracing become more prevalent, the scene graph may have
change a fair bit, but that shouldn't affect the audio and physics systems.

Originally we had wanted to work with Robert more closely to make delta3d have
game engine features, and osg have the rendering features, but things didn't
evolve that way.

Either way, this is not a discussion for the osgPhysics list. I'm making
dtPhysics, which appears to have nearly exactly the same goals as you have
except that we intend to integrate with delta3d its component system.

I email back and forth with Adrian Boeing a fair bit, and I have commit access
to PAL, as I said before, so we would discuss the features and direction of
PAL, as we see it. Perhaps PAL needs a mailing list, or maybe we need to do
something more like a telecon to discuss things. I don't know where in the
world you are. I'm on the east coast of the US. Adrian is, I think, in
Australia. So, I'm not sure how practical that is.

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Re: [osg-users] Forum with Mailing list connection (Christmas Gift ; ) )

2008-12-22 Thread Paul Speed

This one always confuses me.  Are there really still e-mail clients out 
there that don't thread messages?


There is value to a forum, I suppose but when people argue that they 
prefer having messages threaded, it always makes me scratch my head. :)


-Paul

John Montgomery wrote:

Yes, Thanks for this Art.
I prefer to browse by threaded topic.


8)
John Montgomery, Glassel, Scotland.

--
Read this topic online here:
http://osgforum.tevs.eu/viewtopic.php?p=3804#3804





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Re: [osg-users] 4m 36 seconds!

2008-12-05 Thread Paul Speed


It is an ex-box.  It was a box, now it isn't.

-Paul (And yes, even I groaned and rolled my eyes.)

Chris Denham wrote:

Hmm, I sorry to have to tell you Robert. This looks like top of the
range model, but I'm afraid it won't perfrom any better than an
Ex-Box.
Chris.


Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 14:38:04 +
From: "Robert Osfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [osg-users] 4m 36 seconds!
To: "OpenSceneGraph Users" 
Message-ID:
   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi All,

I've taken a picture of my latest computer jut to make you all jealous :-)

Robert.
-- next part --
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: NewComputer.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 191797 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: 


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Re: [osg-users] 4m 36 seconds!

2008-12-05 Thread Paul Speed




Robert Osfield wrote:

Hi Paul,

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:14 PM, Paul Martz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

What is your -j parameter to make?


make -j 8

I haven't played with other settings yet.


I'd like to try the same thing on my
older dual quad core Xeon / 10GB Mac Pro and see how the build time compares
with your newer system. I typically use -j16 (assuming the build will be
disk bound), which results in 100% CPU utilization. It's been a while since
I timed a clean OSG build though -- under 10 minutes comes to mind.


I am almost certainly disk bound as I just have a standard 500Mb
7200rpm disk.  I could go for RAID, but this would just suck more
energy for little useful (to me) difference in performance.


For testing it's probably better that you don't, but RAID0 made a HUGE 
difference for me for paging/building/etc..  Not to mention DVD->PC 
installs went so fast that I barely had time to read the install splash 
screens that go by.


But that's with hardware RAID on the motherboard and not the NV 
software-based RAID (which I was never able to get working on Linux anyway).


Other than technically doubling my failure probability, I couldn't live 
without it.  I guess it is less "green", though.


Maybe I make up for it with fanless water cooling.
-Paul



When the SSD's come down in price and smooth out their performance
envelopes I'll purchase one.

Another aspect of the the new quad core system consumes only about 60%
of the energy of my old quad system that was slower - the motherboard,
CPU and memory of the new system are all better in the energy
efficiency.   Just need the graphics card manufactures to sort out
their energy consumption issues now.

Robert.
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Re: [osg-users] 《OSG编程入门指南》

2008-12-04 Thread Paul Speed


For the curious (I was) these charts are interesting:
http://www2.ignatius.edu/faculty/turner/worldlang.htm

The power of google... the "I wonder how different the numbers really 
are..." questions can be answered with no effort. :)


-Paul

Ümit Uzun wrote:

Hi Rui.

You are right :) I would learn most spoken Language all over the World 
which is Chinese! But at the mean time I think that, it's so easier 
writing this book in my own language Turkish than learning Chinese :)


However thanks so much for your advice ;)

Regards.

2008/12/2 Wang Rui <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >

Hi Ümit,
 
Why not start to learn Chinese. I believe there are many "Getting

Started with Chinese" books. :-D
Best Wishes
Wang Rui
2008/12/2 Ümit Uzun <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >

Hi FlySky,

I tried to look website but unfortunately I don't understand any
word :) I think there is only Chinese edition.
And I believe that, Chinese edition can be read by much more
people than English all over the world :) But we can't ;(

Regards.




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--
Ümit Uzun




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Re: [osg-users] Animation

2008-11-10 Thread Paul Speed




Robert Osfield wrote:

H Paul,

On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 5:54 PM, Paul Speed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From the peanut gallery (since I'm watching this with great interest)...

If this new node kit is only going to handle skeleton-based animation then
maybe osgAnimation is not the best name.


That is nothing better that criticism

Ohh yeah there *is*, it called CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM.


Yikes!



So oh of great wisdom you need to come forward with a better name.

FYI, AnimTK which has become osgAnimation is not just about skeleton
based animation, it just one of introductory features.


Yeah, I was being too subtle.  The previous poster seemed to be arguing 
for only including bones/skeleton/skinning support... with everything 
else falling into different node kits.  So you either end up with 
osgAnimation not really being about general animation (osgBones?) and a 
handful of other "animation" related nodekits, or you (the collective 
you*) solidify the description of osgAnimation to more clearly align 
with what you (the specific you) feel it should contain.  (Which for the 
record, I agree with your take on it... ie: not just bones)


Never meant to step in the bear-trap, though.
-Paul

(*) - I might have said "we" but did not want to presume to include 
myself based on one errant and poorly received comment. :)


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Re: [osg-users] Animation

2008-11-10 Thread Paul Speed


From the peanut gallery (since I'm watching this with great interest)...

If this new node kit is only going to handle skeleton-based animation 
then maybe osgAnimation is not the best name.

-Paul

Jan Ciger wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Eric,

Erik den Dekker wrote:

Jan, I followed your comments to Cedric and above with interest. You made
several important remarks to ensure that osgAnimation will properly support
character animation / skeletal animation. 


However, I wonder if you are not putting too much emphasis on just this
aspect while there may be more ways to do and use animation. It is my
understanding that animation means that a certain aspect of a scene is under
control so it can be changed over time. This aspect is usually orientation,
position or scale, but may also be color, a float weight, a bool, a string,
etc... maybe some custom type. IMHO osg should take a generic approach
towards animation, albeit probably not too generic :).


I think that basic position/orientation/scale style animation is
supported by OSG already. No need to reinvent the wheel there.



Perhaps 3D studio max
(or similar - I just happen to have some experience with this app) can be
taken as an example how to approach animation. It uses animation controllers
and key frame animation to implement animation and in my experience this is
quite flexible. I wonder how far osgAnimation should go in replicating
similar functionality.


That's fine, however I would be extremely wary of an all-encompassing
animation framework that tries to do everything and does nothing well. I
think that it is better to take the "Unix-like" approach - a set of
small tools that do one thing, but do it really well. That means, that
if you need only translation/rotation/scaling you use a simple
keyframing support that is in OSG already, if you need skeleton you use
osgAnimation or osgCal, if you need morphing, you use a (yet not
existing) morphing library.

The only thing these things have in common is a that they vary over
time. That is already well supported in OSG - both the real time and
simulation time.

There is nothing else really common in the code and shoehorning all this
into one is not a good thing from the maintainability and usability
point of view. The Max example is a red herring - unless you plan to
develop an animation package, it has little relation to OSG.  In Max it
makes sense to have all under a "single roof", because the animator
usually uses several of the tools at once and Max authors cannot predict
whether he or she is going to make characters or animate flying boxes.
However, the underlying code is very different under the hood for each
tool.

That said, there is nothing that prevents Cedric (or someone else) to
implement e.g. support for morph targets in the skeletal animation lib
or making osgAnimation a collection of tools to support different types
of animation instead of just a skeleton-based one. However, I think that
this is as far as it should go - if you need something special, you are
better off developing a special tool for it, than trying to "bend" the
existing codebase to do things it was not intended for.



This said, I must admit that I have only quickly glanced over osgAnimation
in its current state, and I believe it already supports much of what I
mentioned.


I am not sure what you mean - right now all it does is a simple software
skinning of models animated via skeletons. There isn't really a notion
of a controller or anything.

Regards,

Jan


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Re: [osg-users] Segfault in VTP, but looks like OSG: SOLVED

2008-11-10 Thread Paul Speed




Ben Discoe wrote:

Thanks Robert, for include/osg/Config.  Starting with OSG 2.6, the VTP can now 
check OSG_USE_FLOAT_MATRIX to detect whether OSG was built with float matrices 
or not.  That makes it easy to handle both cases, so the user doesn't need it 
built one way or the other.

It is not so surprising that the VTP prefers float matrices:

1. It is pointless to use the extra RAM (and memory bandwidth, and CPU time) 
for double matrices, when they aren't needed.

2. The rest of VTP's stack uses single matrices, so having OSG use doubles does 
not even gain theoretical precision improvement.  It would have to be all 
doubles, top to bottom.

3. OpenGL itself is single-precision, so at best doubles would affect 
temporary, intermediate computations.


As Robert states, the double matrix accumulation means that precision 
errors are eliminated on their way to the openGL model/view matrices. 
So if you are close to something, you get really good precision.  If you 
are far away, you don't but it also doesn't matter.




4. In many years, i have never encountered any rare situation that would be 
improved with double matrices.  I'm certain they exist (among the many unusual 
uses of OSG) but since they are less common, it would make far more sense for 
single matrices to be the default.


Anecdotally, in one of our apps we could not draw city blocks on a 
float-based whole earth database because the buildings tended to stack 
on top of each other.  Resolution was something awful (I remember it 
being as high as 100 meters).  Double matrices fix that problem 
completely without anything else special.


-Paul



The VTP uses double-precision for GIS data, and single-precision for the 3d 
scenegraph.  A design which requires the scenegraph to be double-precision is 
arguably.. an odd choice.

-Ben


-Original Message-
From: Robert Osfield
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 2:29 AM

Hi Pascal,

I wonder if you could add something to the VTP build system to detect
problems with Matrixd being used for Matrix.  The other thing one
might be able to do is adapt VTP so that it can handle Matrxf and
Matrixd versions of Matrix.  With OSG 2.6 onward there now is an
include/osg/Config which includes details of the which version of
Matrix is used, perhaps this might be of some help.

As a general note, I've always been surprised by VTP using float
Matrices, as GIS related app I would have expect double Matrices as it
solves many of the precision problems associated with real world data.

Robert.

On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 9:40 AM, Pascal Rheinert
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi,
I got exactly the same error when trying to start VTP
And I solved it now:
The reason is (as expected) a discrepency between what
OSG does by default and what VTP expects concerning
the Matrix


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Re: [osg-users] Change color of a imported node

2008-10-03 Thread Paul Speed

I'm by no means an expert in this area but you should dump your loaded 
.3ds file as a .osg file and look and see what is causing it to be 
colored.  As I recall, the 3DS is loaded with materials for anything 
that is colored... so setting vertex colors isn't going to help you.

-Paul

Vincent Bourdier wrote:

Up !

I anyone have a solution or and idea, I take it, otherwise I have to 
draw my geometry mysefl in OSG and it will be more complicated and less 
beautiful.

Thanks a lot.

Regards,
   Vincent.

2008/10/3 Vincent Bourdier <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>

Hi Gordon

I make this :

if(geode.valid()){
geode->setDataVariance(osg::Object::DYNAMIC);
osg::ref_ptr geom =
geode->getDrawable(0)->asGeometry();
if(geom.valid()){
geom->dirtyDisplayList();
geom->setUseDisplayList(false);

osg::ref_ptr colors = new

osg::Vec4Array();
colors->push_back(planeList[i].color);
geom->setColorArray(colors.get());

geom->setColorBinding(osg::Geometry::BIND_OVERALL);   
}

}

But nothing changes... the color still not update !

2008/10/3 Tomlinson, Gordon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>

Display list are most likely on by default try this

drawable->setUseDisplayList( false );  or if your only doing

once dirty() the drawable

( http://www.vis-sim.com/osg/osg_faq_1.htm#f24 )

/Gordon/

__
/Gordon Tomlinson/

/Product Manager 3D
//Email / : gtomlinson @ overwatch.textron.com

__
//(C)//:/ (+1) 571-265-2612*
*(W)//:/ //(+1) 703-437-7651//

"Self defence is not a function of learning tricks
but is a function of how quickly and intensely one
can arouse one's instinct for survival"
- */Master Tambo Tetsura/*

*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
] *On Behalf
Of *Vincent Bourdier
*Sent:* Friday, October 03, 2008 7:37 AM
*To:* osg
*Subject:* [osg-users] Change color of a imported node

Hi all,

I'm currently looking at a way to allow me changing the color of
a geode, from a model 3D done under 3dsmax. This geode ha no
texture, and is composed by 18 primtiveset. No color array seems
to be in the datas, but it appear in the color applicated in 3dsmax.

I make this :

osg::ref_ptr geode =
dynamic_cast(node->asGroup()->getChild(0));
if(geode.valid()){
geode->setDataVariance(osg::Object::DYNAMIC);
osg::ref_ptr geom =
geode->getDrawable(0)->asGeometry();
if(geom.valid()){
osg::ref_ptr colors = new
osg::Vec4Array();
colors->push_back(planeList[i].color);
geom->setColorArray(colors.get());

geom->setColorBinding(osg::Geometry::BIND_OVERALL);   

}

}

Every thing is fine on the execution, but the geode still appear
with the loaded color.

Any Idea of How to change the color ?
Thanks.

Regards,

   Vincent.

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Re: [osg-users] Extracting embedded Textures

2008-09-23 Thread Paul Speed


I almost hate to draw attention to this but just in case it ever matters...

For various reasons, I ended up writing some IVE readers in Java. 
Mostly because I had some .ive files that no version of OSG I had 
available would load correctly.  And partly because this is the sort of 
thing that feeds an odd manic part of my brain.


At any rate, the stuff is implemented to allow code configurable 
profiles because I was pretty sure I was going to have to hack a 
non-standard version.  The result of which is something that is almost 
like documentation... in code:

http://meta-jb.cvs.sourceforge.net/meta-jb/sandbox/src/java/org/progeeks/osg/io/StandardIveConfiguration.java?revision=1.11&view=markup

Each supported object type has an individual object profile with field 
types added (with an optional version designator).


I never finished it so there are some objects that aren't defined yet 
but I got it to the point that it could load all of my own IVE files and 
I was able to determine more about what was wrong with my bad ones. 
There have also been some changes in the IVE format that are harder to 
configure this way (byte ordering changes, etc.)... one day I may even 
get back to it.


Not sure it's at all useful, but it does centrally describe (in a way) 
the IVE format... with a little translation.  Other than that, it's 
probably only useful to me. :)


-Paul

Evans, Frank wrote:

Thanks once again for the incredibly fast response. Up to now I've been
using the OsgDotNet wrappers, so writing a Custom Visitor class means
maintaining and updating the wrappers as well. At least, if I understand
the solution correctly. I will of course make every effort to leverage
the native loader.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert
Osfield
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:53 PM
To: OpenSceneGraph Users
Subject: Re: [osg-users] Extracting embedded Textures


On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 5:45 PM, Evans, Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Thanks Robert, grinding through the learning curve now. Getting to the
vertices was easy (getVertexArray). Was looking for something similar
for image/textures.


It's straight forward, just look at the NodeVisitor examples I
mentioned.


Is there any documentation on the IVE format? A spec file?


No there is no spec file, it is not meant to be read in a non native
way like an interchanges format such Collada.

Given you have a perfectly serviceable loader it'd be madness to try
and read it by hand, please just use my suggestion.

Robert.
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Re: [osg-users] Returning ref_ptr<> vs. ref_ptr<>::get()

2008-09-10 Thread Paul Speed




Cliff Taylor wrote:


If I remember correctly, Java purposely doesn't give you access to the
base addresses its references point to.  At least, I can't think of an
easy way to access them.  This is all in the name of safe garbage
collection and "data hiding", which ref_ptr<>::get() feels like it's
breaking, at least to me.  Shouldn't we let ref_ptr<> do it's job and
not mess with its internal structures, for the same reason we
shouldn't call ref() and unref() on osg::Referenced family objects?



One thing to remember is that garbage collection (as in Java) is 
different than managed pointers.  The first is a full solution, the 
second is a nice helper.  For example, Java handles circular references, 
doesn't require "buy in" by all containing classes, etc..  ref_ptr 
doesn't have this luxury so it is frequently necessary to work around it.


In light of that, it would be impossible to get rid of get().
-Paul (a different Paul. ;))



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Re: [osg-users] One shader, multiple textures?

2008-08-01 Thread Paul Speed

I am by no means a shader expert, but this is not an OSG problem.  It is 
a shader problem.  OSG doesn't do much special on top of what OpenGL 
gives you for shaders.


I'd recommend the orange book on the OpenGL shading language.  It will 
help you reconstruct the parts of the built-in shader pipeline that you 
need for your custom shader.


-Paul

Jeremy Trammell wrote:
I hope this isn't a ridiculously obvious question, but I have yet to 
find a clear set of solid documentation for OSG, so pardon my naiveness!


I'm working on a little game that allows the user to assemble a 3D map 
out of blocks.  As part of the user interface, I wrote a shader that 
would smoothly fade out levels above and below the level the user is 
currently editing.  This allows the user to see where geometry is in the 
other levels, but without seriously obstructing their view of the level 
they are currently working on.  Great.


My problem is that I also want the user to be able to place "objects" in 
the map.  Naturally these objects should also be "faded out" by my 
shader.  The problem is this:  My shader, since it completely replaces 
the default rendering pipeline, ignores all the textures in the loaded 
objects.  Yikes!


So I guess what I'm looking for is a way to get OSG to "render the 
objects as it normally would", and then pass those gl_FragColor, 
gl_Position, ...etc. values to my custom shader to modify as it sees fit 
before finally drawing the modified data on screen.  Is this possible?  
If not, how do I go about accomplishing this task?



--
/Fortiter/ in re, /suaviter/ in modo.





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Re: [osg-users] Transparency on a drawable

2008-07-15 Thread Paul Speed




Vincent Bourdier wrote:

Hi

Yes, no solutions seems to work on my problem.
Because all the propositions concern nodes, I permit to remember that I 
am looking at a way to set alpha level on a osg::Geometry ...


On node I already have a method using material : set alpha channel, and 
it works good...  But on my geometry nothing look to work good...


This is all my geometry creator code :

osg::ref_ptr builtGeometry(){

double alpha = 0.1;
osg::Vec4 grey(0.4,0.4,0.4,1.0);
osg::Vec4 yellow(1.0,1.0,0.0,1.0);


What happens if you put alpha for the fourth value in your color?
-Paul



osg::Geometry* g = new osg::Geometry;
osg::Vec3Array* vertices= new osg::Vec3Array();
osg::Vec3Array* normals= new osg::Vec3Array();
osg::Vec4Array* colors= new osg::Vec4Array();

normals->push_back(osg::Vec3(0,0,1));
colors->push_back(grey);

//
//QUAD
vertices->push_back(osg::Vec3( _width/2.0, _height + _dist,
_offset));
vertices->push_back(osg::Vec3(-_width/2.0, _height + _dist,
_offset));
vertices->push_back(osg::Vec3(-_width/2.0, 0.0   + _dist,
_offset));
vertices->push_back(osg::Vec3( _width/2.0, 0.0   + _dist,
_offset));

if(!_empty)
g->addPrimitiveSet(new
osg::DrawArrays(osg::PrimitiveSet::QUADS,0,4));
else
g->addPrimitiveSet(new
osg::DrawArrays(osg::PrimitiveSet::LINE_LOOP,0,4));


//-
//LINE

vertices->push_back(osg::Vec3(0.0, 1.0, _offset));
vertices->push_back(osg::Vec3(0.0, _dist, _offset));
colors->push_back(grey);
g->addPrimitiveSet(new
osg::DrawArrays(osg::PrimitiveSet::LINES,4,2));


//
//LINE_LOOP

vertices->push_back(osg::Vec3( _width/2.0, _height + _dist,
_offset/2.0));
vertices->push_back(osg::Vec3(-_width/2.0, _height + _dist,
_offset/2.0));
vertices->push_back(osg::Vec3(-_width/2.0, 0.0   + _dist,
_offset/2.0));
vertices->push_back(osg::Vec3( _width/2.0, 0.0   + _dist,
_offset/2.0));

colors->push_back(yellow);
g->addPrimitiveSet(new
osg::DrawArrays(osg::PrimitiveSet::LINE_LOOP,6,4));

g->setNormalArray(normals);
g->setVertexArray(vertices);
g->setColorArray(colors);

g->setNormalBinding(osg::Geometry::BIND_OVERALL);
g->setColorBinding(osg::Geometry::BIND_PER_PRIMITIVE_SET);
g->setDataVariance(osg::Object::DYNAMIC);


//TRANSPARENCY

osg::StateSet* state = g->getOrCreateStateSet();
   
state->setMode(GL_BLEND,osg::StateAttribute::ON|osg::StateAttribute::OVERRIDE);
osg::Material* mat = new osg::Material;   
mat->setAlpha(osg::Material::FRONT_AND_BACK, alpha);

state->setAttributeAndModes(mat,osg::StateAttribute::ON |
osg::StateAttribute::OVERRIDE);

osg::BlendFunc* bf = new
osg::BlendFunc(osg::BlendFunc::SRC_ALPHA,
osg::BlendFunc::ONE_MINUS_SRC_ALPHA );
state->setAttributeAndModes(bf);

state->setRenderingHint(osg::StateSet::TRANSPARENT_BIN);
state->setMode(GL_LIGHTING, osg::StateAttribute::OFF);

g->setStateSet(state);

return g;
}


Thanks for your help.

Regards,

Vincent.

2008/7/15 dimi christop <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>:


Hi Vincent,
I see you still havent found a solution. So here I send you a
complete example of transpareny.
Its a modification of the Viewer example from the Qucik start guide.
It loads up a cow and overrides the alpha to 0.1.
Hope you can start from there.

Dimi

// Viewer Example, A minimal OSG viewer
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
 
int

main( int, char ** )
{
// Create a Viewer.
osgViewer::Viewer viewer;
 
// Load a model and add it to the Viewer.

osg::ref_ptr nde = osgDB::readNodeFile( "cow.osg" );
 
// Create StateSet and Material

osg::StateSet* state2 = nde->getOrCreateStateSet();
osg::ref_ptr mat2 = new osg::Material;
   
// Set alpha to 0.1

mat2->setAlpha(osg::Material::FRONT_AND_BACK, 0.1);
state2->setAttributeAndModes( mat2.get() ,
osg::StateAttribute::ON | osg::StateAttribute::OVERRIDE);
   
 // Turn on blending

osg::BlendFunc* bf = new
osg::BlendFunc(osg::BlendFunc::SRC_ALPHA,
osg::BlendFunc::ONE_MINUS_SRC_ALPHA );
state2->setAttributeAndModes(bf);
 
viewer.setSceneData(nde.get());
 
if (!viewer.getSceneData())

{
osg::notify( osg::FATAL ) << "Unable to load data file.
Exiting." << std::endl;

Re: [osg-users] 回复： Re: multi translucent g eometry

2008-07-14 Thread Paul Speed

I'm no expert in this area but have had to do some pretty weird things
in the past to get transparency working right for some odd scenes...

One thing you might try is to disable z-buffer writes (not tests) for
the flares.  Depending on your blending, this can add other types of
artifacts but I think in your case they will be very subtle... versus
the z-fighting you are seeing.  (You will obviously want them to be
drawn last just like normal transparency.)

Just an idea...
-Paul

Rick Pingry wrote:
> That reminds me of an issue I have not resloved yet.  Our space ships 
> have thruster engines and I use an image map with transparency and point 
> it back at the camera to make a pretty glow around it.  (First off, is 
> this the best way to do it?  I have thought that perhaps a shader would 
> work better, but I have not had a chance to learn about how to write 
> shaders yet.  So much to learn, so little time).
>  
> Anyway, In some ships there are banks of engines, and it is pretty easy 
> to get the problem where these transparent images intersect with each 
> other, and you get depth sorting issues that way.  I did work out a way 
> to make these "engine flare images" point, rather than right at the 
> camera, all along parallel lines with the camera's line of sight, and 
> that helped tremendously, but you can still get in positions where the 
> images happen to line up along the same depth, and you see some funky 
> tearing and the like due to depth fighting.  Is there a way to handle 
> this better? Should I try to apply other bins to the different engines?  
> What are the rules wrt that?   It sounds like I need to read up on the 
> glDepth and osg::Depth.  Any other recommendations?  I was running into 
> problems rendering planet halos too.  Should the halo be in front of the 
> planet or behind it?  probably the same kind of thing going on. 
>  
> Regards,
> -- Rick
> 
> 2008/7/13 小 杨 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >:
> 
> Thanks! I'll try it!
> 
> */Peter Wraae Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >/* 写道：
> 
> Hi ?? (can't see your name),
>  
> Are you sure zbuffer isn't falling for your 2nd geometry object?
> Also
> having equal depths is probably not a good idea? You need to
> render your
> objects from back to front order.
>  
> When you have transparent objects you should set the stateset 
> stateset->setRenderBinDetails(10,"DepthSortedBin");
> this will render the objects from back to front order...
> but note they will not sort the polygons for the individual
> geometry.
>  
> 
> 
>  
> 2008/7/13 小 杨 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >:
> 
> multi  translucent geometry   with equal depth but  alpha
> value is not equal.
>  
> when i render these geometry ,i can not see all geometry! Why ?
>  
> Can everyone give me some advice!
>  
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 雅虎邮箱，您的终生邮箱！ 
> 
> ___
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> 
> 
> http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Regards,
> Peter Wraae Marino
> 
> www.osghelp.com  - OpenSceneGraph
> support site ___
> 
> osg-users mailing list
> osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org
> 
> 
> http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
> 
> 
> 
> 雅虎邮箱，您的终生邮箱！ 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
>  >> Rick
> Check us out at http://fringe-online.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [osg-users] OSG thread profiling results are in!!

2008-07-03 Thread Paul Speed

You are sending in code again. ;)
-Paul

James Killian wrote:

"
We are using some particle effects pretty heavily, and we noticed (using 
filemon) that the smoke image file is being read over and over again, 
many times (perhaps once per frame).  Is this possible?  We are going to 
look into that next.  Maybe we can cache the single image (state set)?

"

I found a way to cache the images.  The Registry in osgDB has the 
ability to set options.  It appears that _options is NULL by default, 
the options have a CACHE_IMAGES flag to use along with others.  This 
works against any code that uses readImage(filename).  There are others 
to explore too:

Does anyone have any experience with using these options?  is there any 
others that should or should not be used? 

James Killian

- Original Message -
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
*To:* OpenSceneGraph Users 
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 02, 2008 2:11 PM
*Subject:* Re: [osg-users] OSG thread profiling results are in!!

Hi Robert,

I got the stats handler working on our scene and displaying.  I am

not sure I understand what the different numbers mean and how I
might work with them.  I can see the optimization effort is a big
deal.  I know it is beyond the scope of this group.  Are there any
resources out there to look at? 

I have finished the work you had already mentioned, like using png

rather than bmp everywhere.  We are also working on making sure our
images are as small as possible.  We are also going to work on using
LOD.  Since we are in space and most ships are far away, we are sure
we can make a big jump there.  I used osgUtil::Optimizer and that
game me a few more frames.

What are some other suggestions?

We are using some particle effects pretty heavily, and we noticed

(using filemon) that the smoke image file is being read over and
over again, many times (perhaps once per frame).  Is this possible? 
We are going to look into that next.  Maybe we can cache the single

image (state set)?

Thanks

-- Rick

On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Robert Osfield
<[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:

On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 4:35 PM, James Killian
<[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
wrote:
 > The thread profiler does provide detailed information of
every threaded
 > activity at any given time.  I just wish there was some way
to present the
 > information given that would be more meaningful to the group.
 >
 > What would be great is to have a big balanced scene that can
put OSG Viewer
 > to the test in a way where it puts equal intense stress on
update, culling,
 > and draw dispatch.  What I'd hope to see is the draw dispatch
be on a
 > separate thread, where that thread showed mostly I/O
activity, and the cpu
 > activity on other threads.

The osgViewer::StatsHandler will display update, event, cull, draw
dispatch on all systems and draw GPU stats.  The GPU stats
require an
OpenGL extension that I've only seen Nvidia implement so far, so you
won't see this stats printed out on all systems.

Also record a camera path/game sequence that you can use for
benchmarking so that every run the app does the same thing, then
you'll be able to study the effects that changes you make have on
final performance.  You'll also be able to study the above stats to
where the problems occur in your scene.

As a small note, the OSG in CullDrawThreadPerContext,
DrawThreadPerContext and CullThreadPerCameraDrawThreadPerContext run
graphics in a separate thread.

Robert.
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-- 
 >> Rick

Check us out at http://fringe-online.com/

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Re: [osg-users] GL_LINE and GL_POINT question

2008-07-01 Thread Paul Speed

Yes... and in general when looking for something OpenGL-ish in OSG one 
need only glance through the header names.  I've never used them but the 
state attributes: Point and LineWidth look to be what you are looking for:


http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/browser/OpenSceneGraph/trunk/include/osg/Point
http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/browser/OpenSceneGraph/trunk/include/osg/LineWidth

Just an educated guess.
-Paul


Hugo Gomes wrote:

Aren't they wrapped by osg ? ...
Can't i specify that info in a stateset ?

On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 1:36 AM, Willy P <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote:


http://www.opengl.org/sdk/docs/man/xhtml/glLineWidth.xml


On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Hugo Gomes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
 > Hello,
 >
 > how do i set the GL_POINT_SIZE and equivalent GL_LINE_SIZE ?
 >
 >
 > Thanks in advance
 >
 > ___
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 > osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org

 >
http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
 >
 >
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Re: [osg-users] Build from svn in Cygwin still tries to build osgviewerWX but no WX

2008-06-09 Thread Paul Speed

For what it's worth... the whole messages are coming through for me but 
they are just not visible.  If I view the message source then I can see 
the contents... including the encoded attachment.  I'm not sure why 
Thunderbird is getting confused by them.


It's weird because other posters seem to come through with an empty 
attachment for their e-mails with no attachments.


The only thing I can find different about your messages upon quick 
glance is that the Content-Type: boundary designator is very high in the 
header.  And it contains a line break... which in my limited experience 
seems a little odd.  As does the ":thesoftwaresource.com" part but that 
should be ok, I think.


It's clear that a strict interpretation of:
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Next part of message
(VA.181d.0185f8c3:thesoftwaresource.com)"

Would not find the real separators:
--Next part of message (VA.181d.0185f8c3:thesoftwaresource.com)

But I'm reaching at straws.
-Paul

Brian Keener wrote:

 wrote:

Hi Brian,

Hmmm, must have been the attachment since you saw everything on this one.  
Attachment was only 47kb - you wouldn't think that would be a stopper unless it was 
just the fact it had an attachment.
Weird, I remember bigger attachments being sent to osg-users (screen 
captures, etc.)... Not sure what's going on.


Sorry I can't be more help...



Thanks for the help.  Should be another blank one there now where I just tried posting 
the same file as a zip but that was refused too.  

I'll wait and see what Robert says - I guess I could put the whole CmakeCache.txt  
in-line in a message.


Thanks again

bk



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Re: [osg-users] Too much support!!!!!

2008-05-23 Thread Paul Speed

And I would add that none of these "reply with this" suggestions are 
things that Robert should be doing.


Every question he answers means one less question he answers somewhere 
else.  Especially if his wrists start acting up again.


Personally, (and very respectfully) I'd rather he stick to answering the 
questions that only he can answer. :)  Anything else can wait for one of 
the other many knowledgeable list members to jump in... like when Robert 
is on vacation and 80% of the questions still manage to get resolved 
eventually.


-Paul

Gordon Tomlinson wrote:

I would also add a link to
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html on new subscribers 


Perhaps we can put template together that includes 10-20 look here for that
answer, wiki's,vis-sim faqs, OSG faqs, OGL forums , how to ask, producer ,
QT, VPRN,  etc

Then if we reply consistently with the template perhaps it will start to
sink in ;)


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jan Ciger
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 1:11 PM
To: OpenSceneGraph Users
Subject: Re: [osg-users] Too much support!

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Paul Melis wrote:
...
You obviously don't mind responding to any kind of question concerning 
OSG, be it a bug report, more-or-less OpenGL related questions, 
feature requests, changes since the last release, design issues 
concerning certain parts of OSG, etc. What do you consider to be most 
important for you to respond to? Or does it all fall under the heading of

'support'?

Paul



I would also recommend a polite but firm RTFM sometimes. Especially the
recurrent questions about VRML, VRPN or how to load this or that - these
were answered many times before. I would even go so far as send a link to
the FAQ, Wiki and list archives to every new subscriber on subscription to
the list and also have them at the bottom of every mail,  in addition to the
info that is there already.

Regards,

Jan
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Re: [osg-users] Operating Systems + Applications -> Application Systems

2008-05-17 Thread Paul Speed


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFAJDbV9Vfs
http://www.nvidia.com/object/freebsd_1.0-6113.html

:)
-Paul (caveat, I am also not a BSD user. :P)

Jan Ciger wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Jeremy Moles wrote:

ÿI was under the impression he was saying you cannot include a
proprietary driver "initiator" with a distro, which I why I mentioned
the thing about not being able to "bundle" a proprietary driver wrapper.
I am, of course, aware of and in total agreement with what you're
saying, which is why I asked for a bit more infomation...


I think that is what he meant by: "it
is only possible if it is the user's *OWN PERSONAL* choice
outside the GNU framework to do so."

I.e. the driver has to come on the system by user's own actions, be it
through DKMS or installer or manual installation.

Jan
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Re: [osg-users] why arent the ".h" postfix used in openscenegraph?

2008-04-08 Thread Paul Speed



Robert Osfield wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 2:31 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
> 
> Allright.. I didn't know that was the standard, allways used and
> seen ".h" used. :)
> 
> 
> The problems with standards is that  their are jut so many to choose 
> from...  .h is most common for C++ simply from C heritage, but in the 
> early days of C++ loads of others sprung up in the absence of any clear 
> definition so .H, .hxx, .hpp and many other variants all turn up in the 
> wild, there a many of these convoluted variations none of which really 
> make any sense once you take a step back.  When Standard C++ finally 
> made it out it didn't use any of these convoluted attempts at something 
> different from C's .h, rather it just dropped the extension entirely.
> 
> Compilers just open files that are specified via #include without making 
> any assumptions, so you can use absolutely anything you want, you could 
> use .CPlusPlusHeaderFile  if you wished and it'll still compile.  Back 
> in the late nineties I made the choice about extensionless header for 
> the OSG as it aligns itself with what the Standard C++ headers 
> convention, rather than going for one of the many  
> .yetanotherabitaryc++headerextensions that were proliferating at the time. 
> 
> Back then I wouldn't have thought that it'd take more than a decade for 
> IDE's to automatically realise that an extension C++ header file is a 
> C++ header file for all the sophistication of modern software some 
> really dumb arse things aren't possible...
> 

Indeed... though the real problem for me is the occasional command line 
grep... it gets really convoluted to create a find + grep command that 
will accurately search only C and headers.

The directory structure helps a lot there, though.
-Paul
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Re: [osg-users] Windows / NVidia / multi monitor / muti threading (/FBO) problems

2008-04-03 Thread Paul Speed

Thanks for the link.  Maybe I'll actually get unlazy and try to fix it. :)

Just thought I'd check since I see crashes from very oddly-associated 
applications whenever my box starts doing its wild timer ride.  Plus, I 
half hoped that a solution was commonly known and someone would provide 
a link. :)  15 minutes of googling 4 months ago didn't turn up anything 
promising and it's easily worked around in this situation.  

Thanks again.
-Paul

(Funny that Thunderbird's spell check still considers "googling" a 
spelling error. ;))

Wojciech Lewandowski wrote:
> Hi Paul,
> 
> There is well known timing issue with AMD CPUs. Have you seen this document:
> http://developer.amd.com/assets/TSC_Dual-Core_Utility.pdf
> 
> Btw I have these AMD timing patches installed. But also tried to run without
> them. They don't affect the issues I descried earlier. Frankly, I do not
> really care about timing precision. My concern is the fact that application
> crashes or freezes and I cannot use FBO with multi monitor and multi
> threaded modes. All the CPUs these days are multicore so this is a big
> issue. Sure I can force SingleThreading but it would mean loosing power of
> aditional cores.
> 
> Cheers,
> Wojtek
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Paul Speed
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 6:54 PM
> To: OpenSceneGraph Users
> Subject: Re: [osg-users] Windows / NVidia / multi monitor / muti threading
> (/FBO) problems
> 
> 
> One thing... have you tried with a fresh reboot or had the machine been
> running for a while?
> 
> The reason I ask is because I see odd timing behavior on my Athlon 64 X2
> (also running XP).  The clearest example of the oddity is querying the
> high resolution timers.  Occasionally the value jumps around... but only
> after the machine has been running a while.  This really messes with
> some of the timing/profiling stuff in one of our applications and
> sometimes causes some odd system stability when running timing sensitive
> applications (music recorders, etc.)
> 
> The working theory (and I have not been able to prove it) is that each
> core has its own time but that they get out of sync.  So if a thread
> switches cores the high res timers go crazy.
> 
> It's not just my apps that show this either.  CPU monitors, etc. all
> exhibit this problem.  The monitoring application that came with my
> motherboard even shows the CPU speed jumping around on occasion.
> 
> But only after running for a while.  Note: I haven't tried bios
> refreshes or anything like that.  I have no idea if there is a fix for
> this issue but thought it might be something to check before condemning
> nVidia, etc..
> 
> I like AMD a lot but my dual core intel does not have this problem.
> -Paul
> 
> Wojciech Lewandowski wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Few threads touched the same subject recently so I decided to share
>> my observations and maybe provoke some discussion on the problem. Maybe
>> together we can get it fixed. I said "got it fixed" because I am afraid
>> that it might be difficult without driver changes.
>>
>> Problems are related to OSG on Windows XP & Vista with fairly recent
>> NVidia boards (6x00-9x00) / dual view / multi threading modes. I don't
>> want to discuss single monitor (or horizontal span) issues in this post.
>>
>> In my testing I went through following GeForce driver versions: 94.24,
>> 97.94, 162.65, 169.21, 163.75, 169.28, 169.44, 169.61, 174.74.
>> Tests done in DUAL VIEW /  MULTITHREADING modes. Athlon62  X2 (DUAL
>> CORE). OSG latest SVN  from last 2 weeks (2.3.x).
>>
>> OBSERVED ISSUES:
>>
>> All pre 169.xx drivers:
>> - Statistics does not show GPU stats. Draw timings are growing till the
>> moment when framerate hz start to drop. This issue is present with
>> number of examples. Use osgviewer dumptruck.osg to reproduce it.
>>
>> 169.xx and 174.74 drivers:
>> - GPU stats seem ok. But osgviewer dumptruck.osg shows complete garbage.
>> Things get better when osgviewer is started  with --SingleThreaded
>> option and Threading modes are later changed with Threading handler.
>>
>> All driver versions:
>> - FBO use problems. Number of examples using RTT cameras (prerender,
>> shadow, simulation) show erratic behaviour. Usually one screen is
>> incorrect, sometimes apllication freezes. Output console prints FBO
>> error messages. FBO apply fails on one screen. Whats interesting both
>> screens are correctly drawn for the first frame, error appears in
>> consecutive frames.
>>
>> - FBO p

Re: [osg-users] Windows / NVidia / multi monitor / muti threading (/FBO) problems

2008-04-02 Thread Paul Speed

One thing... have you tried with a fresh reboot or had the machine been 
running for a while?

The reason I ask is because I see odd timing behavior on my Athlon 64 X2 
(also running XP).  The clearest example of the oddity is querying the 
high resolution timers.  Occasionally the value jumps around... but only 
after the machine has been running a while.  This really messes with 
some of the timing/profiling stuff in one of our applications and 
sometimes causes some odd system stability when running timing sensitive 
applications (music recorders, etc.)

The working theory (and I have not been able to prove it) is that each 
core has its own time but that they get out of sync.  So if a thread 
switches cores the high res timers go crazy.

It's not just my apps that show this either.  CPU monitors, etc. all 
exhibit this problem.  The monitoring application that came with my 
motherboard even shows the CPU speed jumping around on occasion.

But only after running for a while.  Note: I haven't tried bios 
refreshes or anything like that.  I have no idea if there is a fix for 
this issue but thought it might be something to check before condemning 
nVidia, etc..

I like AMD a lot but my dual core intel does not have this problem.
-Paul

Wojciech Lewandowski wrote:
> Hi All,
>  
> Few threads touched the same subject recently so I decided to share 
> my observations and maybe provoke some discussion on the problem. Maybe 
> together we can get it fixed. I said "got it fixed" because I am afraid 
> that it might be difficult without driver changes.
>  
> Problems are related to OSG on Windows XP & Vista with fairly recent 
> NVidia boards (6x00-9x00) / dual view / multi threading modes. I don't 
> want to discuss single monitor (or horizontal span) issues in this post.
>  
> In my testing I went through following GeForce driver versions: 94.24, 
> 97.94, 162.65, 169.21, 163.75, 169.28, 169.44, 169.61, 174.74.
> Tests done in DUAL VIEW /  MULTITHREADING modes. Athlon62  X2 (DUAL 
> CORE). OSG latest SVN  from last 2 weeks (2.3.x).
>  
> OBSERVED ISSUES:
>  
> All pre 169.xx drivers:
> - Statistics does not show GPU stats. Draw timings are growing till the 
> moment when framerate hz start to drop. This issue is present with 
> number of examples. Use osgviewer dumptruck.osg to reproduce it.
>  
> 169.xx and 174.74 drivers:
> - GPU stats seem ok. But osgviewer dumptruck.osg shows complete garbage. 
> Things get better when osgviewer is started  with --SingleThreaded 
> option and Threading modes are later changed with Threading handler.
>  
> All driver versions:
> - FBO use problems. Number of examples using RTT cameras (prerender, 
> shadow, simulation) show erratic behaviour. Usually one screen is 
> incorrect, sometimes apllication freezes. Output console prints FBO 
> error messages. FBO apply fails on one screen. Whats interesting both 
> screens are correctly drawn for the first frame, error appears in 
> consecutive frames.
>  
> - FBO problems are also present in SINGLE monitor mutithreaded 
> configurations. Examples usually start correctly but freeze or FBO 
> textures stop to update when Threading handler changes mode. One 
> exception: I noticed that oldest (94.24) drivers tested here are working 
> correctly in single monitor mode (no matter what threading mode is 
> selected). They are so old that they may be single threaded 
> internally. Unfortunately they do show the same erratic behaviour as the 
> other versions in multi monitor mode.
>  
> All above problems dissapear when examples are run with --SingleThreaded 
> option. Most of the problems also dissapear when run with One monitor. 
> There are exceptions but they seem to vary with driver versions.
>  
> SOLUTIONS (or rather lack of them):
>  
> Driver Release Notes, number of posts on the WEB, posts on the OSG forum 
> suggest that many OpenGL problems might be related to 
> multithreaded usage. There is a number of CPU fixes available on the 
> net. Some from microsoft, some from AMD or Intel. NVidia recommends 
> registry tweaks or turning off the Threaded optimization. I tried all 
> them without success.
>  
> Only one method did change the situation. When I disabled second core on 
> the CPU, allmost all above problems vanished. In other words I could use 
> MULTIMONITOR and MULTITHREADED OSG on one core CPU. In my opinion this 
> is the strongest argument for the claim that there are NVidia driver 
> isuses with mutithreaded OpenGL. The only case where FBO was still 
> freezing on single core machine was when Threading mode was changed to 
> CullThreadPerCameraDrawThreadPerContext. 
>  
> Unfortunatelly, disabling all the cores except one is no solution at 
> all. I guess its better to run --SingleThreaded. I am curious what are 
> the others' observations ? Maybe someone found some real solutions ? 
> Maybe some workarounds could be made in OSG ?
>  
> DISCLAIMERS:
>  
> - I made all my testing on NVidia boards and have no idea h

Re: [osg-users] OpenSceneGraph-2.3.7 dev release tagged.

2008-04-01 Thread Paul Speed

I can pledge thousands of dollars in monopoly money!!!

I knew it was a joke almost immediately but I still tasted a little of 
my own vomit in the back of my throat.  So there is that.

-Paul

P.S.: For an interesting WTF, I've noticed that some of the computer 
stores around here are now advertising "With XP!" for their PC's that 
aren't pre-loaded with Vista.  And that's not an April Fools joke.  Kind 
of funny when being loaded with the older version of Windows is a big 
feature. ;)

Robert Osfield wrote:
> One more thing...
> 
> In the light of the recent efforts from Microsoft to support standards
> and for opening their source code. I've been thinking of making this
> one the last release before tagging in 2.4 next week or so. Then I
> will be starting to move OpenSceneGraph from exclusive OpenGL support
> to support also DirectX natively. Yes I know ... But that's not all,
> here is the list of features that 3.0 will bring :
>   - fully written in C#, .NET Framework 3.5 compliant
>   - full support of Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) to enable
> seemless graphical UI experience inside your 3D applications
>   - MSDN class documentation for all hidden features available in
> compressed XHTML
>   - new osgDB plugins that will support OOXML import/export that will
> replace OpenSceneGraph old ascii and binary formats
>   - native Excel support to define complex Viewer configurations
>   - native Word support to replace osgText
>   - support for All Microsoft optical mouse buttons
> 
> This will however not be possible without full commitment of the
> community and funding ! Make your voices heard now if you want to join
> the new era in open source computer graphics software soon to be
> industry.
> 
> 2008/4/1, Robert Osfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> Hi All,
>>
>>  I have now tagged the OpenSceneGraph-2.3.7 developer release, details
>>  can be found at:
>>
>>
>> http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Downloads/DeveloperReleases
>>
>> * OpenSceneGraph-2.3.7, released on 1st April 2008. Changes
>>  include : new OpenFlight writer support and libcurl based http reader
>>  have been introduced, OpenThreads sources have now been moved directly
>>  into the OpenSceneGraph SVN removing the old use of svn:externals, and
>>  various bug and build fixes.
>>
>> source package : OpenSceneGraph-2.3.7.zip
>> svn tag: svn co
>>  
>> http://www.openscenegraph.org/svn/osg/OpenSceneGraph/tags/OpenSceneGraph-2.3.7
>>  OpenSceneGraph
>>
>>  That's all folks :-)
>>
>>  Robert.
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> 
> Robert. the other :-)
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Re: [osg-users] skydome

2008-03-27 Thread Paul Speed

For what it's worth... east coast US here and I'd define it similarly to 
your definition.

As in: "We've seen the bug in the lab but not out in the wild."  Or: 
"We've used this tool a lot internally but it is not used out in the wild."

  Maybe it's our closer proximity. ;)
-Paul

Robert Osfield wrote:
> Hi Don,
> 
> It must be that "out there in the wild" doesn't travel well across the
> Atlantic.  In the UK "out there in the wild" just means available and
> ready for use, it doesn't have any negative connations.
> 
> Robert.
> 
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Don Burns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Robert wrote:
>>
>>> More heavy duty skydome have a look at the osgEmphermis NodeKit that's
>>> out there in the wild.
>>>
>>> Robert.
>>>
>> Its not out there "in the wild"!  Its well documented and supported on
>> andesengineering.com: the platform and server that took good care of
>> openscenegraph for many years.
>>
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Re: [osg-users] Should RELEASE event have a button mask?

2008-03-25 Thread Paul Speed



Robert Osfield wrote:
> Hi Paul and Paul :)
> 
> On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 10:11 PM, Paul Speed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I can't be sure because my memory is fuzzy... but as I recall, osgGA
>>  events only tell you the current state of the buttons.  This is true for
>>  down or up and is evident when you are pressing more than one button at
>>  a time.
>>
>>  At least, I'm pretty sure our application had to track button state
>>  separately so that we could detect which button was pressed or released
>>  for a given event.
> 
> Yes this is correct, the getButtonMask returns the current state of
> the mouse, while getButton() returns the actual button related to the
> event.
> 
> Robert.

Yeah, one Paul posted before checking the code and the other (me) 
responded without fully engaging brain to see that he'd already found 
his answer. ;)

Such is the nature of iterative projects, "If only I'd had that method 
back when I did X, Y, Z..."

-Paul (not a pseudonym) :)
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Re: [osg-users] Should RELEASE event have a button mask?

2008-03-24 Thread Paul Speed

I can't be sure because my memory is fuzzy... but as I recall, osgGA 
events only tell you the current state of the buttons.  This is true for 
down or up and is evident when you are pressing more than one button at 
a time.

At least, I'm pretty sure our application had to track button state 
separately so that we could detect which button was pressed or released 
for a given event.

-Paul

Paul Martz wrote:
> ...or I could just use "getButton()". (Note to self: read code before 
> posting.)
>-Paul
>  
> 
> 
> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of
> *Paul Martz
> *Sent:* Monday, March 24, 2008 3:49 PM
> *To:* 'OpenSceneGraph Users'
> *Subject:* [osg-users] Should RELEASE event have a button mask?
> 
> Hi Robert -- I've encountered an issue with osgGA mouse RELEASE
> events and need some background info to determine whether this is a
> bug that requires a fix or not.
>  
> When I receive a PUSH or DRAG mouse event, the button mask tells me
> which button is depressed. However, when I get a RELEASE event, I
> get no information about which button was released.
>  
> Perhaps this is a feature -- when the button is released, obviously
> no button is down, therefore the mask is zero... Is this the design
> intent? If so, I think this is a mistake. The fact that nothing
> is depressed can obviously be inferred from the fact that the event
> is a RELEASE, so there's no need to zero the mask (thereby deleting
> the information about _which_ button was released).
>  
> Or maybe this is a platform issue (I'm on Windows)?
>  
> Thanks for any info...
>  
> Paul Martz
> *Skew Matrix Software LLC*
> http://www.skew-matrix.com 
> 303 859 9466
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [osg-users] OSG KML I/O

2008-01-21 Thread Paul Speed

He's probably referring to the Google Earth mark-up language:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyhole_Markup_Language
http://code.google.com/apis/kml/documentation/

(Why K for "Keyhole"?  Well, because that is the product that google 
bought to make Google earth.)

I suppose it could be useful to have an OSG application read these 
directly but I've always sort of seen it as an interchange format for 
dealing with Google Earth, ie: you had something else and turned it into 
KML.  Seems to me that the "something else" is what you'd want to bring 
into OSG.  Of course, I know of at least a few places that are actually 
developing geospatial content in KML.  So it happens.And is 
probably off-topic anyway.

-Paul

Robert Osfield wrote:
> On Jan 21, 2008 6:53 PM, Mike Weiblen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> What the current state of KML content i/o for OSG?  (Plugins,
>> converters, etc?)
> 
> What do you mean by KML content i/o for OSG?
> 
> Kernel Mailing List is the only acronym I can think of for KML...
> 
> Robert.
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Re: [osg-users] Restoring Mouse Pointer

2007-12-11 Thread Paul Speed

maruti borker wrote:
> 
> Yes , even i wanted to have quake-type controls ... can u please copy 
> paste some example code so  that i can have an idea.
> 

Ok, our code is part of a Java peer since we actually grab the mouse 
values from Java.  So I'll cut and paste the relevant stuff but don't be 
surprised if it it a little disjointed... oh, and ignore my funky 
bracing style...  (and errorf() and warnf() are our own calls into a 
logging API on the Java side.)

In the header, we include:
   #define DIRECTINPUT_VERSION 0x0800
   #include 

And add a field to the class:
   LPDIRECTINPUTDEVICE8 g_pMouse;

In the class implementation we have an initialize method that acquires 
access to the mouse device:

 HRESULT hr;
 LPDIRECTINPUT8   g_pDI= NULL;
 g_pMouse = NULL;

 // Create a DInput object
 hr = DirectInput8Create( GetModuleHandle(NULL), DIRECTINPUT_VERSION,
  IID_IDirectInput8, (VOID**)&g_pDI, NULL );
 if( FAILED(hr) )
 {
 errorf( "Failed to initialize DirectInput: %i", hr );
 return( -1 );
 }

 // Obtain an interface to the system mouse device.
 hr = g_pDI->CreateDevice( GUID_SysMouse, &g_pMouse, NULL );
 if( FAILED(hr) )
 {
 errorf( "Failed to create mouse device: %i", hr );
 return( -1 );
 }

 // Set the data format to "mouse format" - a predefined data format
 //
 // A data format specifies which controls on a device we
 // are interested in, and how they should be reported.
 //
 // This tells DirectInput that we will be passing a
 // DIMOUSESTATE2 structure to IDirectInputDevice::GetDeviceState.
 hr = g_pMouse->SetDataFormat( &c_dfDIMouse2 );
 if( FAILED(hr) )
 {
 errorf( "Failed to set data format: %i", hr );
 return( -1 );
 }

 // By default we'll set the device to be in non-exclusive
 // mode until acquired.  Which actually is still pretty
 // much what we want other than the fact that regular events
 // still work.
 DWORD dwCoopFlags = DISCL_NONEXCLUSIVE | DISCL_FOREGROUND;

 HWND hWnd = GetForegroundWindow();

 // Set the cooperativity level to let DirectInput know how
 // this device should interact with the system and with other
 // DirectInput applications.
 hr = g_pMouse->SetCooperativeLevel( hWnd, dwCoopFlags );
 if( FAILED(hr) )
 {
 errorf( "Failed to set mouse cooperation mode: %i", hr );
 return( -1 );
 }

 // Acquire the non-exclusive device
 hr = g_pMouse->Acquire();
 if( FAILED(hr) )
 {
 errorf( "Mouse acquisition failed:%i", hr );
 return( -1 );
 }

 return( (int)0 );

Then to read the mouse state we have a method for reading the device 
values that looks like:

 HRESULT   hr;
 DIMOUSESTATE2 dims2;  // DirectInput mouse state structure

 // Get the input's device state, and put the state in dims
 ZeroMemory( &dims2, sizeof(dims2) );
 hr = g_pMouse->GetDeviceState( sizeof(DIMOUSESTATE2), &dims2 );
 if( FAILED(hr) )
 {
 // We may have lost acquisition of the device because another
 // app went to the foreground.  Since we don't busy-wait for
 // it to come back we can't rely on the return code to tell us...
 // so we'll keep trying to reacquire for every error.
 if( hr == DIERR_INPUTLOST )
 warnf( "Mouse access lost." );

 // Try to reacquire it once
 hr = g_pMouse->Acquire();
 if( FAILED(hr) )
 {
 // Just return an empty state
 return( createMouseState( 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 ) );
 }
 else
 {
 warnf( "Mouse access reacquired." );
 }
 }

 return createMouseState( dims2.lX, dims2.lY, dims2.lZ,
  dims2.rgbButtons[0],
  dims2.rgbButtons[1],
  dims2.rgbButtons[2] );

The create mouse state method call above is creating our own Java holder 
for the data.  I left it in because it takes all of the data members 
that are interesting.

We have another method for acquiring exclusive and non-exclusive access 
to the mouse:

void MousePeer::setAcquire(bool flag)
{
 // Unacquire the mouse if we've grabbed it previously
 if( g_pMouse )
 {
 g_pMouse->Unacquire();
 }

 if( flag )
 {
 // Acquire exclusively

 // Right now we always do exclusive foreground mode
 // when we acquire.  This means that our app should have
 // full access to mouse deltas as long as they are the
 // foreground app
 DWORD dwCoopFlags = DISCL_EXCLUSIVE | DISCL_FOREGROUND;

 HRESULT hr;
 HWND hWnd = GetForegroundWindow();

 // Set the cooperativity level to let DirectInput know how
 //

Re: [osg-users] Restoring Mouse Pointer

2007-12-10 Thread Paul Speed

If this is on Windows then I think the only good way is to grab the 
mouse directly using DirectInput.  This is what we've done to do 
Quake-style controls.

I can probably include some cut-pasted examples of how we've done it if 
you like.  As I recall, we just query how far the mouse has been rolled 
every frame... and screen boundary doesn't stop the rolling.

-Paul

maruti borker wrote:
> When should i actually use requestWarpPointer ?? at every frame ?
> 
> On Dec 11, 2007 2:27 AM, maruti borker <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
> 
> 
> Ok , suppose i am calculating the amount of steering from the center
> of the screen ... even then when the mouse reaches one corner of a
> window it wont be able to move any further , thus from that point
> the diffrence will always be zero wont it be ?
> 
> 
> On Dec 10, 2007 2:54 PM, Robert Osfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
> 
> HI Maruti,
> 
> When I've used mouse for steering I've always implemented a scheme
> where the delta of the mouse form the center of the screen sets the
> speed of rotation, for an example of this see the DriveManipulator.
> This way you never get limited by mouse movement beyond limiting the
> maximum speed of rotation.
> 
> Robert.
> 
> On Dec 9, 2007 7:46 PM, maruti borker <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
>  >
>  > I am trying to develop a normal walkthrough program in OSG .
> I am trying use
>  > wasd for movement and mouse for rotation .
>  >
>  > W-front A-left D-right S-back .
>  >
>  > The wads part is done , but when it comes to mouse movement i
> am facing a
>  > small problem .
>  >
>  > What i am trying to do is , i am calculating the change in x
> co-ordinate and
>  > y co-ordinate of the mouse while it is moving . And i am
> rotating according
>  > to value of dx and dy .I was able to do it quite sucessfully
> .. but then i
>  > faced a problem . The problem as that i couldnt rotate more
> when the pointer
>  > is at a corner . coz near the corner he cant move further and
> dx=0 or dy=0 .
>  > Thus i wasnt able to move anything :( .
>  >
>  > so i thought of restoring the mouse pointer every frame to
> the center of the
>  > window. For that i used requestWarpPointer() of
> osgViewer::GraphicsWindow .
>  > But now the program is behaving weirdly ... can u please
> check it out ..
>  > thanx in advance
>  >
>  > --
>  > Maruti Borker
>  > IIIT Hyderabad
>  > Website:- http://students.iiit.ac.in/~maruti
> 
>  > Blog:- http://marutiborker.wordpress.com
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> --
> Maruti Borker
> IIIT Hyderabad
> Website:- http://students.iiit.ac.in/~maruti
> 
> Blog:- http://marutiborker.wordpress.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> --
> Maruti Borker
> IIIT Hyderabad
> Website:- http://students.iiit.ac.in/~maruti 
> 
> Blog:- http://marutiborker.wordpress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [osg-users] DynamicLibrary::failed loading

2007-12-01 Thread Paul Speed

I don't know if it matters in this case or not but on WinXP I had a 
problem with spaces in paths.  If I put OSG into a directly with a space 
in it and then added that directory to my path: I would be able to run 
osgviewer.exe but it would fail to find any of the DLLs.  Moving it to a 
directory without a space fixed it.

At the time, I couldn't find anything to make it work... but I didn't 
try very hard either (since I had a work-around).  It seemed like DLL 
resolution was done differently than exe path resolution.

I could have been out of my mind, too.
-Paul

Mike Weiblen wrote:
> Interesting, thanks for the data.  This is exactly the kind of situation
> I had intended my installer would solve, this is good feedback.
> 
> fyi, the osgDB library explicitly does the loading of the osgdb_*.dll
> plugins, which is why there aren't problems finding and the plugins are
> found in their magic directory, etc.  At issue is how the dependencies
> pulled in by the Windows runtime linker are found and loaded.
> 
> (some backstory: this pathing garbage is all due to the licensing of the
> MS redist libraries.  Other dependency libraries don't limit how they're
> put in the filesystem, so they can be located whereever's convenient.
> The MS runtime redist requires their subdirectory structure and naming
> be preserved. :-P)
> 
> I'd really like to understand the root cause here, so the installer will
> Just Work.  A couple more questiions:
> - this isn't Vista, is it?
> - exactly what's the machine config? (which OS, SP, etc?  32/64 bit?
> Is/was VS ever installed, which version?)
> - are you installing as admin or not?  
> - are you running as admin or not?
> - where is OSG being installed?  on a UNC share?  
> 
> The official MS-sanctioned sure-fire solution is to run the redist
> installer to put the runtime libs in the public shared assembly
> directory:
> C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio
> 8\SDK\v2.0\BootStrapper\Packages\vcredist_x86\vcredist_x86.exe
> That will require admin permission, but should bypass the whole private
> assembly pathing issue.  If that doesn't work, there're bigger issues
> afoot.
> 
> cheers
> -- mew
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
>> Of Will Sistar
>> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 4:55 PM
>> To: OpenSceneGraph Users
>> Subject: Re: [osg-users] DynamicLibrary::failed loading
>>
>> Well, here is what I have done so far.  
>> I used Depends and found that it couldn't find the two 
>> microsoft dir, so I added that to my path as you mentioned.
>> (still didn't work)
>> Uninstalled OSG and then reinstalled making sure to add the 
>> environment variables to the registry. (I believe I did 
>> before)  Ran osgShell without any modifications and found 
>> that it does in fact add %OSG_PATH% to the front of the 
>> system path with the same directories listed as Mike 
>> previously mentioned. 
>> Tried "osgviewer cow.osg" again and it still didn't work.
>>
>> What is interesting is that when I manually load it doesn't 
>> prepend the "osgPlugins-2.2.0" to the filename and it finds 
>> and uses it with no problems.  If I type in "osgviewer -l 
>> osgPlugins-2.2.0/osgdb_osg.dll cow.osg" it finds the file but 
>> still says it fails to load.  If it were a dependency problem 
>> wouldn't it have a problem loading the dll regardless of how 
>> it found it?  I am not saying it isn't a PATH issue but it 
>> always seems to find the file, it just fails when it is 
>> anywhere other than the \bin dir.  I tried putting it in the 
>> \system32 directory and try to manually load it and it finds 
>> it there but fails to load.  
>>
>> It works on one of my home pc just not my work one.
>>
>> Mike, this is where I started with setting up my env 
>> variables.  I think I may have entered one of them wrong 
>> before which is why I removed everything and started over.  I 
>> then checked them against what you had in your email and they 
>> matched. 
>> http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Support/Gettin
>> gStartedstep 4. and
>> http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Support/Platfo
>> rmSpecifics/VisualStudio 
>> > ormSpecifics/VisualStudio> Environment Variables
>>
>>
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Re: [osg-users] Tutorials

2007-10-02 Thread Paul Speed



Paul Speed wrote:
> 
> Robert Osfield wrote:
>> On 8/27/07, Jean-Sébastien Guay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>> P.S.
>>>> It seems to me to not have received the original Robert message, It is
>>>> not the first ime I got a reply to a message I' ve never received.
>>>> has it  occured to anyone else?
>>> Yes, me. No idea why, nor how to fix it, but I've seen it happen about
>>> 3 times in the last week...
>> Mailman on the new dreamhost server doesn't seem to be as reliable as
>> it should be. I am no mail, mailman or web admin expert so I can't say
>> why exact these problems exist.  Is it a dreamhost problem on
>> delivery?  Is is peoples on mail servers rejecting mail?
>>
>> Just a point of reference, the last time we moved mailing list servers
>> there was quite a bit of fallout w.r.t the mail server being
>> blacklisted so people wouldn't receive mail from it.  The blacklisting
>> can be a local issue or one centrally managed.
>>
>> I suspect this is an issue with false positives where spam filters and
>> blacklisting is used as much  as anything else.
>>
>> Robert.
> 
> For what it's worth, I too have missed several e-mails from the list... 
> some from you specifically.  I know about them because I see the responses.
> 
> I only mention it because a) I have basically no spam filtering at all, 
> and b) I receive many other messages (from you specifically) just fine.
> 
> Just adding evidence (or removing possible red herrings) for anyone 
> trying to debug this issue.
> 
> -Paul

Interesting that I'm just now seeing this.  I didn't realize how many 
messages I was actually missing until they started coming in over the 
last four days... several hundred and still coming it looks like.

Kind of fun to relive a little history I guess though I did initially 
freak when the list traffic spiked. :)  One of the oddest mailing list 
quirks I've seen in a while.

No action required, just commiserating.
-Paul
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Re: [osg-users] osg::Image::scaleImage in a windowless app

2007-09-05 Thread Paul Speed



Jean-Sébastien Guay wrote:
> Hello Paul,
> 
> Thanks for your suggestion... My point of view:
> 
>> Though, if you don't know Java that
>> well I suppose you might break even with trying to figure out how to get
>> OSG+OpenGL to do this for you versus learning the Java needed.
> 
> I have done some Java but not in a while. Other than this scaleImage()  
> thing, it took me all of a few hours to get my program working  
> perfectly using C++/OSG, and I suspect once I know how to create a  
> pbuffer, it will all be working in 15 minutes or less. So I don't  
> really see the point in spending a day or more refreshing my knowledge  
> of Java for this one project.
> 
>> [insert every other language with a built-in imaging API here]
> 
> OSG has a built-in imaging API... And it's my language of choice these  
> days. ;-)
> 
> Granted, it's limited, but it does what I need. If I need more, I'll  
> go write a perl script using ImageMagick which in retrospect would  
> probably have been quicker and more customizable anyways... Oh well.
> 
> All this to say I agree with the point you make, but now I suspect I'm  
> about 15 minutes away from my goal if I can just get a windowless  
> OpenGL context! :-)

Cool.  Good luck.  Like I said, I hated to be "one of those guys". :)  I 
just routinely run into "I need to read this JPG, scale it and save it 
as PNG" sort of things.  I don't know perl well but I do know Java very 
well and sometimes I just fire up beanshell(*) and don't even bother to 
compile anything.  It was just too hard to walk on by.

-Paul

(*) - BeanShell is a Java-based scripting environment.

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Re: [osg-users] osg::Image::scaleImage in a windowless app

2007-09-05 Thread Paul Speed



Jean-Sébastien Guay wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am currently working on a (hopefully) simple app which reads images,  
> does some tiling, conversions and resizing and then writes out the  
> resulting image(s). This app does not have (nor should it have) a  
> window. But it does need to use osg::Image::scaleImage(...) which  
> requires an OpenGL context because it uses gluScaleImage(...).
> 
> Reading the mailing list archives, I found this:
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.graphics.openscenegraph.user/16290
> In this thread, Robert suggests creating a pbuffer and destroying it  
> afterwards. I would appreciate some pointers on how to do this, as I  
> have no idea where to start. I'm currently working on Windows, but it  
> would obviously be nice if I could keep this platform-independent if  
> possible.
> 
> I know the OSG is meant to be a 3D visualization API, but it seemed to  
> have all I needed to do what I wanted to do, and I know it pretty  
> well, so why not use it?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> J-S

I hate to be "one of those guys" but I will say that I've routinely 
written similar applications in Java.  Usually just one-offs because 
they are so easy.  Depending on the types of images your are reading and 
writing it can be quite trivial.  Though, if you don't know Java that 
well I suppose you might break even with trying to figure out how to get 
OSG+OpenGL to do this for you versus learning the Java needed.

[insert every other language with a built-in imaging API here]
-Paul
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Re: [osg-users] Polygon sorting

2007-09-05 Thread Paul Speed



Zach Deedler wrote:
> Hi Michele,
> 
> I had a similar problem with intersecting polygons.
> 
> I fixed it by editing the model.  First, I broke up the polygon so that no
> polygon intersected.  This makes it so the depth sort will work for each
> polygon (ie. You don't have to depth sort pixels!).  Then, I strategically
> placed group nodes above polygons, so that the groups never overlap.  What
> this does, in affect, is really start sorting by polygon.

Just thought that I'd point out (to be pedantic) that making sure that 
the polygons don't intersect isn't enough to be sure that they sort 
properly.  It will help a lot but there could still be degenerate cases 
that don't sort right using the centroid of the triangle.

As an extreme example, imagine a triangle with the tip right about at 
your forehead and the base extending off in the distance.  Now, place a 
triangle just the other side of that one but near the top of your field 
of view.  It will sort in front even though it is behind.

These cases can come up even in closed convex figures... though in those 
cases one of them will at least be back-facing... and there are other 
ways to sort that out.

> 
> I'm not sure if this is viable for you?  Are you dynamically intersecting
> objects?  In any case, adding more groups should improve the depth tests.
> 
> If you can't modify the model, you could try to write a node visitor that
> inserts a group node above each polygon.  I'm not sure how difficult that
> would be, though.
> 
> I think it would be great to add the option of polygon depth sorting to OSG,
> but I don't know what affect that would have on performance?

It would be interesting but definitely slower, I would think. 
Especially since spatial decomposition and/or bin ordering can be so 
effective.

I think all of this is why real transparency is a hard problem.  With 
limitations, you can make one or another method work well for a 
particular type of geometry but I don't think there is a good general 
solution.  At least not at this level.

-Paul

> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michele
> Bosi
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 6:05 PM
> To: osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org
> Subject: [osg-users] Polygon sorting
> 
> Hello,
> I need to sort the polygons of my meshes in order to obtain decent
> transparencies for complex autointerstecting objects like 3d
> isosurfaces.
> I figured out that a very raw way to do so would be to subclass
> Viewer, reimplement frame(), and from there getting the viewMatrix and
> sorting my poligons based on their distance from the viewer (having
> disabled display list support for the node). The actual sorting would
> be done on the list of indices (osg::DrawElementsUInt) since I use
> indexed triangles.
> 
> Since to get correct results I also have to take into account the
> transformation applied to my Geometry I was wondering if there was a
> more "clever" way to do all this mess, maybe there are already
> mechanisms that inform my Geometry that is going to be drawn so that I
> can react sorting my polygons appropriately at the correct moment and
> accounting for the currently active transformations, something similar
> to the VTK/pipeline system.
> Any idea?
> Regards,
> Mike
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Re: [osg-users] Tutorials

2007-08-27 Thread Paul Speed



Robert Osfield wrote:
> On 8/27/07, Jean-Sébastien Guay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> P.S.
>>> It seems to me to not have received the original Robert message, It is
>>> not the first ime I got a reply to a message I' ve never received.
>>> has it  occured to anyone else?
>> Yes, me. No idea why, nor how to fix it, but I've seen it happen about
>> 3 times in the last week...
> 
> Mailman on the new dreamhost server doesn't seem to be as reliable as
> it should be. I am no mail, mailman or web admin expert so I can't say
> why exact these problems exist.  Is it a dreamhost problem on
> delivery?  Is is peoples on mail servers rejecting mail?
> 
> Just a point of reference, the last time we moved mailing list servers
> there was quite a bit of fallout w.r.t the mail server being
> blacklisted so people wouldn't receive mail from it.  The blacklisting
> can be a local issue or one centrally managed.
> 
> I suspect this is an issue with false positives where spam filters and
> blacklisting is used as much  as anything else.
> 
> Robert.

For what it's worth, I too have missed several e-mails from the list... 
some from you specifically.  I know about them because I see the responses.

I only mention it because a) I have basically no spam filtering at all, 
and b) I receive many other messages (from you specifically) just fine.

Just adding evidence (or removing possible red herrings) for anyone 
trying to debug this issue.

-Paul
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