[ozmidwifery] vbac didn't happen
Hi everyone, My friend had a baby boy last night by c.s. I have spoken with her this morning. After being seen by a wonderful midwife from this list, she rang and cancelled the caeser booking for yesterday morning and went into what sounds good labour after a sweep. . She couldn't talk much about details , but sounded happy with her baby boy called Riley, who was 8lb1 and 54 cms. He has breastfed beautifully, thank goodness. By the gist of the short story , was examined and told to push and wasn't fully. AH. Then told to breathe through etc etc, re examined hours later 6cm. I'm so over women being put through this crap. God I wish people would learn to trust womens bodies and stop fiddling. Why can't they wait until pushy signs happen!! Of course I have n't said anything to her just venting here about this.She sounded tired and a bit spaced out, having regular peth and will talk more when she is out of hospital. She is pleased that she laboured and had no analgesia throughout. It's just a damn pity that she needed the section in the end. I'm off to work a late shift, wish me luck, Cath
Re: [ozmidwifery] vbac didn't happen
Me too! Sick and tired of it all, I wish that people would take time to think... 'does she have any other signs of second stage?' Melissa - Original Message - From: cath nolan To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 10:26 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] vbac didn't happen Hi everyone, My friend had a baby boy last night by c.s. I have spoken with her this morning. After being seen by a wonderful midwife from this list, she rang and cancelled the caeser booking for yesterday morning and went into what sounds good labour after a sweep. . She couldn't talk much about details , but sounded happy with her baby boy called Riley, who was 8lb1 and 54 cms. He has breastfed beautifully, thank goodness. By the gist of the short story , was examined and told to push and wasn't fully. AH. Then told to breathe through etc etc, re examined hours later 6cm. I'm so over women being put through this crap. God I wish people would learn to trust womens bodies and stop fiddling. Why can't they wait until pushy signs happen!! Of course I have n't said anything to her just venting here about this.She sounded tired and a bit spaced out, having regular peth and will talk more when she is out of hospital. She is pleased that she laboured and had no analgesia throughout. It's just a damn pity that she needed the section in the end. I'm off to work a late shift, wish me luck, Cath
Re: [ozmidwifery] vbac didn't happen
I'm sorry to hear that, Cath. Next baby she is in a really big pickle now : ( Some nurturing in order for you and for her I think. With love and strength, J - Original Message - From: cath nolan To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 12:26 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] vbac didn't happen Hi everyone, My friend had a baby boy last night by c.s. I have spoken with her this morning. After being seen by a wonderful midwife from this list, she rang and cancelled the caeser booking for yesterday morning and went into what sounds good labour after a sweep. . She couldn't talk much about details , but sounded happy with her baby boy called Riley, who was 8lb1 and 54 cms. He has breastfed beautifully, thank goodness. By the gist of the short story , was examined and told to push and wasn't fully. AH. Then told to breathe through etc etc, re examined hours later 6cm. I'm so over women being put through this crap. God I wish people would learn to trust womens bodies and stop fiddling. Why can't they wait until pushy signs happen!! Of course I have n't said anything to her just venting here about this.She sounded tired and a bit spaced out, having regular peth and will talk more when she is out of hospital. She is pleased that she laboured and had no analgesia throughout. It's just a damn pity that she needed the section in the end. I'm off to work a late shift, wish me luck, Cath
Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after more than one c-sec in the perinatal data?
Brenda, It was Janet that wrote the original message. I jumped in when I read that fairly shocking statement for an ob from your colleague :) Sorry for my sarcasm but someone like you will understand! You're incredibly lucky to have 2 good ob's to work with. Maybe I better rein in my sarcasm. I notice that with women all the time (I'm not a midwife, just have an extreme interest in the birthing scene) - they keep going to the same old butchers. You can't seem to get it in their heads that pregnancy/birth does not have to be that way. Good on you for promoting the pro natural obs. I know it's one step at a time but it gets so frustrating seeing what women accept for themselves and their babies :( It's depressing. Keep up the good work! Regards Jayne - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 4:43 AM Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after more than one c-sec in the perinatal data? Hi Jayne, Sorry, I thought I was emailing Janet !! You must have wondered who on earth I was ! Did I answer the question you asked ? I work with the support of 2 great OBs on the Mornington Peninsula, neither of them are knife happy. They are both very pro natural (otherwise obviously as the 'homebirth midwife' I wouldn't be collaborating with them). The other 2 OBs in our area are terrified of birth section anything that moves, I have always refused to work with their clients in my private practice. In the Birth Centre where I also work obviously I have to care for the women who choose to attend the 'fear mongerers' I am respectful fair in my care for them. But I can't understand why they choose them as their OBs, even when I tell them what their caesar induction rates are, they still go to them because they are so nice charming, clearly their philosophy of birth isn't relevent !!! If women attend them then request me as birth support/doula or midwife I agree only if they will change their OB to one of the 2 who provide women-centred, evidence based care. That way I know they will have given themselves the best chance of having a normal birth. Most agree to change when I explain the rationale behind my request. Sorry about the email mix up, and the spelling, night duty it's 0430, the brain is on auto pilot ! Regards Brenda. jesse/jayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I received the message below of yours Brenda. AS 1 OB colleague states: if we could just prevent the first CS happening she wouldn't be faced with this awful dilemma now ie to VBAC or not. An ob really said that?! My, my must have been one of those more unusual obs! Jayne - Original Message - From: brendamanning To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after more than one c-sec in the perinatal data? Hi Janet, On the Victorian perinatal data collection unit form which should be filled out returned by all midwives to the above unit for every birth (home or otherwise) there is a section which asks: No 41:was the last birth a CS ? No 42: Total no of previous CS? Is this what you mean ? I have recently been midwife at VBAC after 3CS and a VBAC following 2 CS. So they are happening. Just need more of them. AS 1 OB colleague states: if we could just prevent the first CS happening she wouldn't be faced with this awful dilemma now ie to VBAC or not. With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 1:30 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after more than one c-sec in the perinatal data? Hi all, is there some way in which the perinatal data for each state records vb after multiple c-secs in the hospy system? I wonder if it's too statistically insignificant or is there a part of the data I haven't noticed. I know they're different in each state as well. How about hospy's own data? Are people recording how many c-secs women have before a vb? We really need MIPPs to be recording HBACs so we can contrast that with the truly appalling national average. I've only seen blanket VBAC figures, not how many surgeries prior. Anyone know? J For home birth information go to: Joyous Birth Australian home birth network and forums. http://www.joyousbirth.info/ Or email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after more than one c-sec in the perinatal data?
I received the message below of yours
Brenda.
"AS 1 OB colleague states:
"if we could just prevent the first CS
happeningshe wouldn't be faced with this awful dilemma now ie to VBAC or
not."
An ob really said that?! My, my must have been one of those more
unusual obs!
Jayne
- Original Message -
From:
brendamanning
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 3:12
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after
more than one c-sec in the perinatal data?
Hi Janet,
On the Victorian perinatal data
collection unitform whichshould befilled out returned
by all midwives tothe above unitfor every birth (home or
otherwise) there is a section which asks:
No41:"was the last birth a CS
?
No 42: Total no of previous
CS?
Is this what you mean ?
I have recently been midwife at VBAC
after 3CS and a VBAC following 2 CS.
So they are happening. Just need more of
them.
AS 1 OB colleague states:
"if we could just prevent the first
CS happeningshe wouldn't be faced with this awful dilemma now ie to VBAC
or not.
With kind regardsBrenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au
- Original Message -
From:
Janet
Fraser
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 1:30
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after more
than one c-sec in the perinatal data?
Hi all,
is there some way in which the
perinatal data for each state records vb after multiple c-secs in the hospy
system? I wonder if it's too statistically insignificant or is there a part
of the data I haven't noticed. I know they're different in each state as
well. How about hospy's own data? Are people recording how many c-secs women
have before a vb? We really need MIPPs to be recording HBACs so we can
contrast that with the truly appalling national average. I've only seen
blanketVBAC figures, not how many surgeries prior. Anyone
know?
J
For home birth information go
to:Joyous Birth Australian home birth network and forums.http://www.joyousbirth.info/Or
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after more than one c-sec in the perinatal data?
Pretty simple for QLD as a women is not offered a Vbac if she has had more than 1 C/S even if she has had a successful vaginal birth between the c/s's. Don't know about the private system but they appear do more c/s and less vbac than the public system so probably less than no chance with them. On 9/16/06, Janet Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, is there some way in which the perinatal data for each state records vb after multiple c-secs in the hospy system? I wonder if it's too statistically insignificant or is there a part of the data I haven't noticed. I know they're different in each state as well. How about hospy's own data? Are people recording how many c-secs women have before a vb? We really need MIPPs to be recording HBACs so we can contrast that with the truly appalling national average. I've only seen blanketVBAC figures, not how many surgeries prior. Anyone know? J For home birth information go to:Joyous Birth Australian home birth network and forums.http://www.joyousbirth.info/Or email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nzMy Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_PhotographersNew Photo site@Mike - http://mikelinz.dotphoto.comLindsay - Http://likeminz.dotphoto.com Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as it gets. Unknown
RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after more than one c-sec in the perinatal data?
Same as the WA form. Contact the state Health statistics dept. they have all the data. MM From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of brendamanning Sent: Saturday, 16 September 2006 1:12 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after more than one c-sec in the perinatal data? Hi Janet, On the Victorian perinatal data collection unitform whichshould befilled out returned by all midwives tothe above unitfor every birth (home or otherwise) there is a section which asks: No41:was the last birth a CS ? No 42: Total no of previous CS? Is this what you mean ? I have recently been midwife at VBAC after 3CS and a VBAC following 2 CS. So they are happening. Just need more of them. AS 1 OB colleague states: if we could just prevent the first CS happeningshe wouldn't be faced with this awful dilemma now ie to VBAC or not. With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 1:30 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after more than one c-sec in the perinatal data? Hi all, is there some way in which the perinatal data for each state records vb after multiple c-secs in the hospy system? I wonder if it's too statistically insignificant or is there a part of the data I haven't noticed. I know they're different in each state as well. How about hospy's own data? Are people recording how many c-secs women have before a vb? We really need MIPPs to be recording HBACs so we can contrast that with the truly appalling national average. I've only seen blanketVBAC figures, not how many surgeries prior. Anyone know? J For home birth information go to: Joyous Birth Australian home birth network and forums. http://www.joyousbirth.info/ Or email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[ozmidwifery] VBAC
Hi everybody, For those of you who were at that wonderful homebirth conference in Geelong last month, you may recall Ina May warning us about women in the US whose uterus had been sutured in one single layer instead of two following caesareans and the problems this poses for future VBACs. When I went onto PN ward, I told the staff about this they laughed at me and were adamant that it would never happen here in Australia. Our doctors are too well trained. Guess what? I've gone through the notes this week of caesars done last week this. Two of the women had their uteruses sutured in a single layer. Can't happen here? Just wanted to make you aware it certainly does and is. Regards, Gail -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC
Gail I've heard of it being sold to women as a great thing because it means they'll be out of OT faster and in recovery with their babies. And yes, in Australia. Of course once you go back to your surgeon and ask if you're allowed (snort!) to attempt (more snorting!) a VBAC, you're not and hey presto instant justification for the surgeon's more convenient path - ERC. I believe in Europe however that single layer is common and yet their VBAC rates are generally higher and UR not thought to be the big scary thing it is here where misinformation is rife. All food for thought, hey?! J - Original Message - From: Gail McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 10:07 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Hi everybody, For those of you who were at that wonderful homebirth conference in Geelong last month, you may recall Ina May warning us about women in the US whose uterus had been sutured in one single layer instead of two following caesareans and the problems this poses for future VBACs. When I went onto PN ward, I told the staff about this they laughed at me and were adamant that it would never happen here in Australia. Our doctors are too well trained. Guess what? I've gone through the notes this week of caesars done last week this. Two of the women had their uteruses sutured in a single layer. Can't happen here? Just wanted to make you aware it certainly does and is. Regards, Gail -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC
I think perhaps this is another one that needs to be informed consent, the mother should be made aware of this before hand and should have the right to ask for it to be done properly. Instead of finding out next birth when its too late!!! Amanda - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Gail I've heard of it being sold to women as a great thing because it means they'll be out of OT faster and in recovery with their babies. And yes, in Australia. Of course once you go back to your surgeon and ask if you're allowed (snort!) to attempt (more snorting!) a VBAC, you're not and hey presto instant justification for the surgeon's more convenient path - ERC. I believe in Europe however that single layer is common and yet their VBAC rates are generally higher and UR not thought to be the big scary thing it is here where misinformation is rife. All food for thought, hey?! J - Original Message - From: Gail McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 10:07 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Hi everybody, For those of you who were at that wonderful homebirth conference in Geelong last month, you may recall Ina May warning us about women in the US whose uterus had been sutured in one single layer instead of two following caesareans and the problems this poses for future VBACs. When I went onto PN ward, I told the staff about this they laughed at me and were adamant that it would never happen here in Australia. Our doctors are too well trained. Guess what? I've gone through the notes this week of caesars done last week this. Two of the women had their uteruses sutured in a single layer. Can't happen here? Just wanted to make you aware it certainly does and is. Regards, Gail -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/404 - Release Date: 7/31/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/404 - Release Date: 7/31/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC
I too have been checking notes since hearing Ina May's talk - our obs appear to still be using 2 layer closure, but best keep an eye on this. Have you asked the surgeons who are doing the single layer why Gail? I remember Ina May saying that there was also an increase in placenta accreta and percreta in subsequent pregnancies following single layer closure. Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Gail McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 8:07 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Hi everybody, For those of you who were at that wonderful homebirth conference in Geelong last month, you may recall Ina May warning us about women in the US whose uterus had been sutured in one single layer instead of two following caesareans and the problems this poses for future VBACs. When I went onto PN ward, I told the staff about this they laughed at me and were adamant that it would never happen here in Australia. Our doctors are too well trained. Guess what? I've gone through the notes this week of caesars done last week this. Two of the women had their uteruses sutured in a single layer. Can't happen here? Just wanted to make you aware it certainly does and is. Regards, Gail -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/404 - Release Date: 31/07/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] vbac
i was looking after a woman the other night who had requested a vbac. the original c section was for faliure to progress after induction late in the afternoon (the ob at the time was her cousin). the ob looking after this woman this time however was happy for her to let nature take its course this time and as long as their were no problems with the baby or her it did. iam pleased to report that she had the baby NVD. she had a very concise birth plan which she was willing to change if necessary on things such as epidural and monitoring. She also had in attendance with her an independent midwife who assisted her to get through her labour in all it was a very satisfying time for both her and the stafff involved.
[ozmidwifery] VBAC in Perth
Hello everyone I am enquiring on behalf of a friend who is 33 wks pregnant with No 3. Previous 2 pregnancies ended in C-sec. She is seeking out any VBAC friendly doctors in Perth who can provide accurate information without all the emotive BS. She is still feeling very traumatized by first two births and it would be so wonderful for her to have a healing experience of birth this time aroundThis is her email to my sister Would you know where would be the best place to look if I am looking for medical journals to do my own research on C-sections etc etc? Tadzik said the Library at Sir Charles Gairdner. I do not want to ask doctors because they only repeat what they hear from each other. I want some truthful information - as accurate and up-to date as possible. Would Amy know anyone I can speak to? Even interstate? This Woman has been told that she has to have another C-sec or she faces a high chance of requiring a hysterectomy following vaginal birth. A statement which we all know is more emotive and threatening than factual She has also asked if I know of any midwives or doulas who might be able to provide information/support. Any ideasdirections please?? We are in Perth, Thanks, Amy
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Perth
BIRTHRITES!!! http://www.birthrites.org Perth-based c-sec info from a consumers' perspective. One member just had a VBA3C in a hospy with the support of a private MW. I have a HUGE c-sec resource list and the latest study on VBA2C showed no complications in birthing women but a heap in the women who had ERC. No surprises really! There's a MASSIVE amount of info on the net, start with the articles on my site where there's also a link to Birthrites. To get real info this woman needs to talk to midwives NOT surgeons for whom surgery is always seen as a good option. http://www.joyousbirth.info/ I'm happy to share my internet resource list so I'll send it to you off-list. It's been on here before : ) J - Original Message - From: adamnamy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 5:44 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Perth Hello everyone I am enquiring on behalf of a friend who is 33 wks pregnant with No 3. Previous 2 pregnancies ended in C-sec. She is seeking out any VBAC friendly doctors in Perth who can provide accurate information without all the emotive BS. She is still feeling very traumatized by first two births and it would be so wonderful for her to have a healing experience of birth this time around This is her email to my sister Would you know where would be the best place to look if I am looking for medical journals to do my own research on C-sections etc etc? Tadzik said the Library at Sir Charles Gairdner. I do not want to ask doctors because they only repeat what they hear from each other. I want some truthful information - as accurate and up-to date as possible. Would Amy know anyone I can speak to? Even interstate? This Woman has been told that she has to have another C-sec or she faces a high chance of requiring a hysterectomy following vaginal birth. A statement which we all know is more emotive and threatening than factual She has also asked if I know of any midwives or doulas who might be able to provide information/support. Any ideas directions please?? We are in Perth, Thanks, Amy
RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Perth
Thank you Nicole and Janet, I appreciate your quick responses and I am sure she will too! I am so pleased to be offering her some useful resources. . Janet, those two word documents are an amazing source of info for womenthanks for sharing that with us all. Amy
[ozmidwifery] vbac/FYI
Reducing post-cesarean vaginal births has no effect on mortality Source:Annals of Family Medicine 2006; 4: 228-34 Looking at the effect of introducing more restrictive guidelines on vaginal birth after cesarean section on mortality rates. Although rates of vaginal birth after cesarean delivery (VBAC) decreased significantly after the adoption of more restrictive guidelines by the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists in 1999, there was no effect on neonatal and maternal mortality rates, suggest US study results. For the study, John Zweifler and colleagues from the University of California in San Francisco studied the records of 386,232 women who had previously given birth by cesarean delivery and subsequently had a singleton birth between 1996 and 2002. Although attempted VBAC deliveries fell significantly after the guideline revision, from 24.0 percent beforehand to just 13.5 percent afterwards, neonatal mortality rates per 1000 live births were no different for attempted VBAC deliveries from those for repeat cesarean among neonates weighing at least 1500 g during either of the two study periods. Neonatal mortality rates for attempted VBAC among neonates weighing less than 1500 g were higher than those for repeat cesarean deliveries, however, in both study periods. Maternal death rates per 100,000 live births were similar in the two study periods for attempted VBAC. We recommend that a balanced presentation of risks and the encouraging outcomes found in this analysis be included in discussions with pregnant patients who have had a previous cesarean section, the team concludes. Posted: 2 June 2006 Current Medicine Group 2006
RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC
Title: Message external wound infections are different to the internal wound are they not? External should not impact on vbac success. -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC
Hi all. Im after some help for a woman who had a CS for first babe 18 mths ago for ??? (Failure to progress at 6cm in chart), she subsequently had a wound infection at around days 7-12 readmitted, IV abs then oral abs to clear it up. This woman is now 20 weeks and has been told by hospital Dr that best option would be for repeat CS due to wound infection. Anyone know any research that is specific for VBAC post CS with would infection?? feel free to email me off list thanks nicole [EMAIL PROTECTED] The things that increase risk are usually complications that occur as a result of CS, such as intrauterine infections following CS, haematoma formation in the uterine incision, extension of the uterine incision at CS,
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC
You are right Mary. To be a problem there usually has to be endometritis, or a uterine incision infection or haematoma formation in the uterine wound. I cared for a woman recently though who had extensive adhesions from her previous caesarean on thebowel, bladder and peritoneum along the scar lineand this caused pain that did not feel 'contraction-like' - she knew what contractions felt like.Itstarted when she started labouring, and then her labour would stop. It would startagain and stop, and because the pain was unusual, it frightened her. She had another caesarean and the adhesionsfound at second CS were extensive and thought likely to be the cause of the peculiar pain she experienced. Regards, Lynne - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 12:02 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Wouldnt the wound infection be superficial? I understand that the risk is following a uterine / deep incision infection. We would all like to hear experienced midwives opinion, so please, keep the discussion on the list. MM
RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld?
That's a great term! Thanks, Nicole. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Isis CapleSent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 2:25 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Empowered Birth After Caesarean J From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dianeSent: Wednesday, 17 May 2006 2:20 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Im glad you asked Nicole, thay way more of us will know!! : ) Di - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 1:55 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Forgive my ignorance, but what is an EBAC? Thanks,Nicole. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Philippa ScottSent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 12:57 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Hi, I am in Townsville where we (Birth Buddies) have had a few clients have VBACS and EBACs. The Townsville Hospital (public) is the best bet up here. I have had a VBAC there to and am always pleased to help those planning VBACs. I can be contacted if you like on 47734075 or 0407648349. Cheers Philippa ScottBirth Buddies - DoulaAssisting women and their families in the preparation towards childbirth and labour.President of Friends of the Birth Centre Townsville From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Lynne StaffSent: Wednesday, 17 May 2006 8:57 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Hi Penny - she would be very welcome at Selangor, but Nambour is a little far from Cairns! Regards, Lynne - Original Message - From: penny burrows To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:54 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Hi everyone I have some childbirth education clients that are planning a move to Qld - somewhere between Airlie Beach and Cairns. The mum had a previous caesarean as her baby was breech (arghhh!!) and she really wants to land somewhere where she will be supportend to birth vaginally this time. She is 27 weeks pregnant and planning to move next week so we are in a rush to find a destination!! Anyone have any clues as to supportive obstetricians, doctors, midwives up that way? She doesn't want to birth at home so is looking for support in a hospital/ birth centreenvironment. Thanks in anticipation, Penny Burrows - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:34 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Stop me!. Now Im on the thread I cant seem to stop. MM Update of: Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2000;(2):CD001056. Periconceptional supplementation with folate and/or multivitamins for preventing neural tube defects.Lumley J, Watson L, Watson M, Bower C.Centre for the Study of Mothers' and Children's Health, La Trobe University, 251 Faraday St, Carlton, Vic, Australia, 3053. [EMAIL PROTECTED]BACKGROUND: Neural tube defects arise during the development of the brain and spinal cord. OBJECTIVES: The objective of this review was to assess the effects of increased consumption of folate or multivitamins on the prevalence of neural tube defects periconceptionally (that is before pregnancy and in the first two months of pregnancy). SEARCH STRATEGY: We searched the Cochrane Pregnancy and Childbirth Group trials register. Date of last search: April 2001. SELECTION CRITERIA: Randomised and quasi-randomised trials comparing periconceptional supplementation by multivitamins with placebo, folate
RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld?- Answer for Nicole
Hi, Nicole, VBAC stands for Vaginal Birth After Caesarian. Not many hospitals will accommodate a woman wanting to give birth vaginally after a caesarian, quoting it too dangerous and that it could lead to uterine rupture, but the research literature supports VBAC and found it to be no more dangerous than normal birth. Go to any of the childbirth websites to find out more. Hope this helps. Gail From: Nicole Carver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 13:55:36 +1000 Forgive my ignorance, but what is an EBAC? Thanks, Nicole. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Philippa Scott Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 12:57 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Hi, I am in Townsville where we (Birth Buddies) have had a few clients have VBAC'S and EBAC's. The Townsville Hospital (public) is the best bet up here. I have had a VBAC there to and am always pleased to help those planning VBAC 's. I can be contacted if you like on 47734075 or 0407648349. Cheers Philippa Scott Birth Buddies - Doula Assisting women and their families in the preparation towards childbirth and labour. President of Friends of the Birth Centre Townsville -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lynne Staff Sent: Wednesday, 17 May 2006 8:57 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Hi Penny - she would be very welcome at Selangor, but Nambour is a little far from Cairns! Regards, Lynne - Original Message - From: penny burrows To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:54 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Hi everyone I have some childbirth education clients that are planning a move to Qld - somewhere between Airlie Beach and Cairns. The mum had a previous caesarean as her baby was breech (arghhh!!) and she really wants to land somewhere where she will be supportend to birth vaginally this time. She is 27 weeks pregnant and planning to move next week so we are in a rush to find a destination!! Anyone have any clues as to supportive obstetricians, doctors, midwives up that way? She doesn't want to birth at home so is looking for support in a hospital/ birth centre environment. Thanks in anticipation, Penny Burrows - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:34 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Stop me!. Now I'm on the thread I cant seem to stop. MM Update of: a.. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2000;(2):CD001056. Periconceptional supplementation with folate and/or multivitamins for preventing neural tube defects. Lumley J, Watson L, Watson M, Bower C. Centre for the Study of Mothers' and Children's Health, La Trobe University, 251 Faraday St, Carlton, Vic, Australia, 3053. [EMAIL PROTECTED] BACKGROUND: Neural tube defects arise during the development of the brain and spinal cord. OBJECTIVES: The objective of this review was to assess the effects of increased consumption of folate or multivitamins on the prevalence of neural tube defects periconceptionally (that is before pregnancy and in the first two months of pregnancy). SEARCH STRATEGY: We searched the Cochrane Pregnancy and Childbirth Group trials register. Date of last search: April 2001. SELECTION CRITERIA: Randomised and quasi-randomised trials comparing periconceptional supplementation by multivitamins with placebo, folate with placebo, or multivitamins with folate; different dosages of multivitamins or folate; prepregnancy dietary advice and counselling in primary care settings to increase the consumption of folate-rich foods, or folate-fortified foods, with standard care; increased intensity of information provision with standard public health dissemination. DATA COLLECTION AND ANALYSIS: Two reviewers assessed trial quality and extracted data. MAIN RESULTS: Four trials of supplementation involving 6425 women were included. The trials all addressed the question of supplementation and they were of variable quality. Periconceptional folate supplementation reduced the incidence of neural tube defects (relative risk 0.28, 95% confidence interval 0.13 to 0.58). Folate supplementation did not significantly increase miscarriage, ectopic pregnancy or stillbirth, although there was a possible increase in multiple gestation. Multivitamins alone were not associated with prevention of neural tube defects and did not produce additional preventive effects when given with folate. One dissemination trial, a community randomised trial, was identified
RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld?- Answer for Nicole
i think she was asking about EBAC - empowered birth after caesarean ie vaginal or caesarean but with the woman empowered to choose and direct and plan the experience in order to suit her Gail McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Nicole,VBAC stands for Vaginal Birth After Caesarian. Not many hospitals will accommodate a woman wanting to give birth vaginally after a caesarian, quoting it too dangerous and that it could lead to uterine rupture, but the research literature supports VBAC and found it to be no more dangerous than normal birth. Go to any of the childbirth websites to find out more. Hope this helps.GailFrom: "Nicole Carver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auTo: <OZMIDWIFERY@ACEGRAPHICS.COM.AU>Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld?Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 13:55:36 +1000Forgive my ignorance, but what is an EBAC?Thanks,Nicole. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Philippa Scott Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 12:57 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Hi, I am in Townsville where we (Birth Buddies) have had a few clients haveVBAC'S and EBAC's. The Townsville Hospital (public) is the best bet up here.I have had a VBAC there to and am always pleased to help those planning VBAC's. I can be contacted if you like on 47734075 or 0407648349. Cheers Philippa Scott Birth Buddies - Doula Assisting women and their families in the preparation towards childbirthand labour. President of Friends of the Birth Centre Townsville-- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lynne Staff Sent: Wednesday, 17 May 2006 8:57 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Hi Penny - she would be very welcome at Selangor, but Nambour is a littlefar from Cairns! Regards, Lynne - Original Message - From: penny burrows To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:54 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Hi everyone I have some childbirth education clients that are planning a move toQld - somewhere between Airlie Beach and Cairns. The mum had a previouscaesarean as her baby was breech (arghhh!!) and she really wants to landsomewhere where she will be supportend to birth vaginally this time. She is27 weeks pregnant and planning to move next week so we are in a rush to finda destination!! Anyone have any clues as to supportive obstetricians, doctors, midwivesup that way? She doesn't want to birth at home so is looking for support ina hospital/ birth centre environment. Thanks in anticipation, Penny Burrows - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:34 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Stop me!. Now I'm on the thread I cant seem to stop. MM Update of: a.. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2000;(2):CD001056. Periconceptional supplementation with folate and/or multivitamins forpreventing neural tube defects. Lumley J, Watson L, Watson M, Bower C. Centre for the Study of Mothers' and Children's Health, La TrobeUniversity, 251 Faraday St, Carlton, Vic, Australia, 3053.[EMAIL PROTECTED] BACKGROUND: Neural tube defects arise during the development of thebrain and spinal cord. OBJECTIVES: The objective of this review was toassess the effects of increased consumption of folate or multivitamins onthe prevalence of neural tube defects periconceptionally (that is beforepregnancy and in the first two months of pregnancy). SEARCH STRATEGY: Wesearched the Cochrane Pregnancy and Childbirth Group trials register. Dateof last search: April 2001. SELECTION CRITERIA: Randomised andquasi-randomised trials comparing periconceptional supplementation bymultivitamins with placebo, folate with placebo, or multivitamins withfolate; different dosages of multivitamins or folate; prepregnancy dietaryadvice and counselling in primary care settings to increase the consumptionof folate-rich foods, or folate-fortified foods, with standard care;increased intensity of information provision with standard public healthdissemination. DATA COLLECTION AND ANALYSIS: Two reviewers assessed trialquality and extracted data. MAIN RESULTS: Four trials of supplementationinvolving 6425 women were included. The trials all addressed the question ofsupplementation and they were of variable quality. Periconceptional folatesupplementation reduced the incidence of neural tube defects (relative risk0.28, 95% confidence interval 0.13 to 0.58). Folate supplementation did notsignificantly increase miscarriage, ectopic pregnancy or stillbirth,although there was a possible increase in multiple gestation. Multivitaminsalone were not associated with prevention of neural tube defects and did notproduce additional preventive effects when given with folate. Onedissemination trial, a community randomised trial, was identified involvingsix communi
[ozmidwifery] VBAC
Hi everyone, collective knowledge sought! Does anyone have any information that would enlighten a woman who has had 2 vaginal births, then twins by C/S and now wants a VBAC. Is she at increased risk because of the twin C/S? Thanks, MM
RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC
Title: Message VBAC success rate for someone who had birthed by cs for previous twin birth 79% Effect of prior vaginal delivery or prior vaginal birth after caesarean delivery on obstetric outcomes in women undergoing trial of labor. Obstet Gynecol. 2004 Aug;104(2):273-7 Hendler I, Bujold E. OBJECTIVE: We sought to study the effects of prior vaginal delivery or prior vaginal birth after cesarean delivery (VBAC) on the success of a trial of labor after a cesarean delivery. METHODS: An observational study of patients who underwent a trial of labor after a single low-transverse cesarean delivery. Patients with a previous cesarean delivery and no vaginal birth were compared with patients with a single vaginal delivery before or after the previous cesarean delivery. The rates of successful VBAC, uterine rupture, and scar dehiscence were analyzed. Multivariable regression was performed to adjust for confounding variables. RESULTS: Of 2,204 patients, 1,685 (76.4%) had a previous cesarean delivery and no vaginal delivery, 198 (9.0%) had a vaginal delivery before the cesarean delivery, and 321 (14.6%) had a prior VBAC. The rate of successful trial of labor was 70.1%, 81.8%, and 93.1%, respectively (P .001). A prior VBAC was associated with fewer third- and fourth-degree lacerations (8.5% versus 2.5% versus 3.7%, P .001) and fewer operative vaginal deliveries (14.7% versus 5.6% versus 1.9%, P .001) but not with uterine rupture (1.5% versus 0.5% versus 0.3%, P =.12). Patients with a prior VBAC had, in addition, a higher rate of uterine scar dehiscence (21.8%) compared with patients with a previous cesarean delivery and no vaginal delivery (5.3%; P =.001). CONCLUSION: A prior vaginal delivery and, particularly, a prior VBAC are associated with a higher rate of successful trial of labor compared with patients with no prior vaginal delivery. In addition, prior VBAC is associated with an increased rate of uterine scar dehiscence. the emphasis on that last sentence is dehiscence...not rupture. there are a few more studies that show women with a previous vagianl birth then a cs are more likely to havea successful vbac. Why would a twin cs be different to a singleton??? -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary MurphySent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 7:21 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Hi everyone, collective knowledge sought! Does anyone have any information that would enlighten a woman who has had 2 vaginal births, then twins by C/S and now wants a VBAC. Is she at increased risk because of the twin C/S? Thanks, MM --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC
Absolutely not Mary. The things that increase risk are usually complications that occur as a result of CS, such as intrauterine infections following CS, haematoma formation in the uterine incision, extension of the uterine incision at CS,and not the fact that she has had a CS for a twin pregnancy. She is no more likely to have a CS than anyother multigravida. I wish her all the best for a wonderful birth. Regards, Lynne - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 7:51 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Hi everyone, collective knowledge sought! Does anyone have any information that would enlighten a woman who has had 2 vaginal births, then twins by C/S and now wants a VBAC. Is she at increased risk because of the twin C/S? Thanks, MM
[ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld?
Hi everyone I have some childbirth education clients that are planning a move to Qld - somewhere between Airlie Beach and Cairns. The mum had a previous caesarean as her baby was breech (arghhh!!) and she really wants to land somewhere where she will be supportend to birth vaginally this time. She is 27 weeks pregnant and planning to move next week so we are in a rush to find a destination!! Anyone have any clues as to supportive obstetricians, doctors, midwives up that way? She doesn't want to birth at home so is looking for support in a hospital/ birth centreenvironment. Thanks in anticipation, Penny Burrows - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:34 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Stop me!. Now Im on the thread I cant seem to stop. MM Update of: Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2000;(2):CD001056. Periconceptional supplementation with folate and/or multivitamins for preventing neural tube defects.Lumley J, Watson L, Watson M, Bower C.Centre for the Study of Mothers' and Children's Health, La Trobe University, 251 Faraday St, Carlton, Vic, Australia, 3053. [EMAIL PROTECTED]BACKGROUND: Neural tube defects arise during the development of the brain and spinal cord. OBJECTIVES: The objective of this review was to assess the effects of increased consumption of folate or multivitamins on the prevalence of neural tube defects periconceptionally (that is before pregnancy and in the first two months of pregnancy). SEARCH STRATEGY: We searched the Cochrane Pregnancy and Childbirth Group trials register. Date of last search: April 2001. SELECTION CRITERIA: Randomised and quasi-randomised trials comparing periconceptional supplementation by multivitamins with placebo, folate with placebo, or multivitamins with folate; different dosages of multivitamins or folate; prepregnancy dietary advice and counselling in primary care settings to increase the consumption of folate-rich foods, or folate-fortified foods, with standard care; increased intensity of information provision with standard public health dissemination. DATA COLLECTION AND ANALYSIS: Two reviewers assessed trial quality and extracted data. MAIN RESULTS: Four trials of supplementation involving 6425 women were included. The trials all addressed the question of supplementation and they were of variable quality. Periconceptional folate supplementation reduced the incidence of neural tube defects (relative risk 0.28, 95% confidence interval 0.13 to 0.58). Folate supplementation did not significantly increase miscarriage, ectopic pregnancy or stillbirth, although there was a possible increase in multiple gestation. Multivitamins alone were not associated with prevention of neural tube defects and did not produce additional preventive effects when given with folate. One dissemination trial, a community randomised trial, was identified involving six communities, matched in pairs, and where 1206 women of child-bearing age were interviewed following the dissemination intervention. This showed that the provision of printed material increased the awareness of the folate/neural tube defects association by 4%, (odds ratio 1.37, 95% confidence interval 1.33 to 1.42). REVIEWER'S CONCLUSIONS: Periconceptional folate supplementation has a strong protective effect against neural tube defects. Information about folate should be made more widely available throughout the health and education systems. Women whose fetuses or babies have neural tube defects should be advised of the risk of recurrence in a subsequent pregnancy and offered continuing folate supplementation. The benefits and risks of fortifying basic food stuffs, such as flour, with added folate remain unresolved.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld?
The place everyone will suggest is Selangor which is private. QLD leads Australia's c-sec rate so VBAC is really hard to get up there without travelling. I wish her luck and home birth vibes since that's her safest bet. She may find a doula near where she is but an entirehospital which actively and trulysupports and promotes VBAC is not in existence. At most she may find occasionalsupportive practitioners and those can be located through contacting the many consumer birth groups in Brisbane. There's a prog at RBWH (Pegasus? Phoenix? Some mythical beast...) which takes VBACs and women are largely seen by MWs but at 27 weeks she will probably have trouble getting in. There's a waiting list. MC would be able to help too especially Cas McCullough who had a VBA2C at Selangor. She may have more details of evidence based CPs who support women to birth after surgery. It's a really hard path to try in any hospital let alone in QLD. J - Original Message - From: penny burrows To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:54 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Hi everyone I have some childbirth education clients that are planning a move to Qld - somewhere between Airlie Beach and Cairns. The mum had a previous caesarean as her baby was breech (arghhh!!) and she really wants to land somewhere where she will be supportend to birth vaginally this time. She is 27 weeks pregnant and planning to move next week so we are in a rush to find a destination!! Anyone have any clues as to supportive obstetricians, doctors, midwives up that way? She doesn't want to birth at home so is looking for support in a hospital/ birth centreenvironment. Thanks in anticipation, Penny Burrows - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:34 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Stop me!. Now Im on the thread I cant seem to stop. MM Update of: Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2000;(2):CD001056. Periconceptional supplementation with folate and/or multivitamins for preventing neural tube defects.Lumley J, Watson L, Watson M, Bower C.Centre for the Study of Mothers' and Children's Health, La Trobe University, 251 Faraday St, Carlton, Vic, Australia, 3053. [EMAIL PROTECTED]BACKGROUND: Neural tube defects arise during the development of the brain and spinal cord. OBJECTIVES: The objective of this review was to assess the effects of increased consumption of folate or multivitamins on the prevalence of neural tube defects periconceptionally (that is before pregnancy and in the first two months of pregnancy). SEARCH STRATEGY: We searched the Cochrane Pregnancy and Childbirth Group trials register. Date of last search: April 2001. SELECTION CRITERIA: Randomised and quasi-randomised trials comparing periconceptional supplementation by multivitamins with placebo, folate with placebo, or multivitamins with folate; different dosages of multivitamins or folate; prepregnancy dietary advice and counselling in primary care settings to increase the consumption of folate-rich foods, or folate-fortified foods, with standard care; increased intensity of information provision with standard public health dissemination. DATA COLLECTION AND ANALYSIS: Two reviewers assessed trial quality and extracted data. MAIN RESULTS: Four trials of supplementation involving 6425 women were included. The trials all addressed the question of supplementation and they were of variable quality. Periconceptional folate supplementation reduced the incidence of neural tube defects (relative risk 0.28, 95% confidence interval 0.13 to 0.58). Folate supplementation did not significantly increase miscarriage, ectopic pregnancy or stillbirth, although there was a possible increase in multiple gestation. Multivitamins alone were not associated with prevention of neural tube defects and did not produce additional preventive effects when given with folate. One dissemination trial, a community randomised trial, was identified involving six communities, matched in pairs, and where 1206 women of child-bearing age were interviewed following the dissemination intervention. This showed that the provision of printed material increased the awareness of the folate/neural tube defects association by 4%, (odds ratio 1.37, 95% confidence interval 1.33 to 1.42). REVIEWER'S CONCLUSIONS: Periconceptional folate supplementation has a strong protective effect against neural tube defects. Information about folate should be made more widely available throughout the health and education systems. Women whose fetuses or babies have neural tube defects should be advised of the risk
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld?
Hi Penny - she would be very welcome at Selangor, but Nambour is a little far from Cairns! Regards, Lynne - Original Message - From: penny burrows To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:54 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Hi everyone I have some childbirth education clients that are planning a move to Qld - somewhere between Airlie Beach and Cairns. The mum had a previous caesarean as her baby was breech (arghhh!!) and she really wants to land somewhere where she will be supportend to birth vaginally this time. She is 27 weeks pregnant and planning to move next week so we are in a rush to find a destination!! Anyone have any clues as to supportive obstetricians, doctors, midwives up that way? She doesn't want to birth at home so is looking for support in a hospital/ birth centreenvironment. Thanks in anticipation, Penny Burrows - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:34 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Stop me!. Now Im on the thread I cant seem to stop. MM Update of: Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2000;(2):CD001056. Periconceptional supplementation with folate and/or multivitamins for preventing neural tube defects.Lumley J, Watson L, Watson M, Bower C.Centre for the Study of Mothers' and Children's Health, La Trobe University, 251 Faraday St, Carlton, Vic, Australia, 3053. [EMAIL PROTECTED]BACKGROUND: Neural tube defects arise during the development of the brain and spinal cord. OBJECTIVES: The objective of this review was to assess the effects of increased consumption of folate or multivitamins on the prevalence of neural tube defects periconceptionally (that is before pregnancy and in the first two months of pregnancy). SEARCH STRATEGY: We searched the Cochrane Pregnancy and Childbirth Group trials register. Date of last search: April 2001. SELECTION CRITERIA: Randomised and quasi-randomised trials comparing periconceptional supplementation by multivitamins with placebo, folate with placebo, or multivitamins with folate; different dosages of multivitamins or folate; prepregnancy dietary advice and counselling in primary care settings to increase the consumption of folate-rich foods, or folate-fortified foods, with standard care; increased intensity of information provision with standard public health dissemination. DATA COLLECTION AND ANALYSIS: Two reviewers assessed trial quality and extracted data. MAIN RESULTS: Four trials of supplementation involving 6425 women were included. The trials all addressed the question of supplementation and they were of variable quality. Periconceptional folate supplementation reduced the incidence of neural tube defects (relative risk 0.28, 95% confidence interval 0.13 to 0.58). Folate supplementation did not significantly increase miscarriage, ectopic pregnancy or stillbirth, although there was a possible increase in multiple gestation. Multivitamins alone were not associated with prevention of neural tube defects and did not produce additional preventive effects when given with folate. One dissemination trial, a community randomised trial, was identified involving six communities, matched in pairs, and where 1206 women of child-bearing age were interviewed following the dissemination intervention. This showed that the provision of printed material increased the awareness of the folate/neural tube defects association by 4%, (odds ratio 1.37, 95% confidence interval 1.33 to 1.42). REVIEWER'S CONCLUSIONS: Periconceptional folate supplementation has a strong protective effect against neural tube defects. Information about folate should be made more widely available throughout the health and education systems. Women whose fetuses or babies have neural tube defects should be advised of the risk of recurrence in a subsequent pregnancy and offered continuing folate supplementation. The benefits and risks of fortifying basic food stuffs, such as flour, with added folate remain unresolved.
RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld?
Hi, I am in Townsville where we (Birth Buddies) have had a few clients have VBACS and EBACs. The Townsville Hospital (public) is the best bet up here. I have had a VBAC there to and am always pleased to help those planning VBACs. I can be contacted if you like on 47734075 or 0407648349. Cheers Philippa Scott Birth Buddies - Doula Assisting women and their families in the preparation towards childbirth and labour. President of Friends of the Birth Centre Townsville From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Lynne Staff Sent: Wednesday, 17 May 2006 8:57 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Hi Penny - she would be very welcome at Selangor, but Nambour is a little far from Cairns! Regards, Lynne - Original Message - From: penny burrows To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:54 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Hi everyone I have some childbirth education clients that are planning a move to Qld - somewhere between Airlie Beach and Cairns. The mum had a previous caesarean as her baby was breech (arghhh!!) and she really wants to land somewhere where she will be supportend to birth vaginally this time. She is 27 weeks pregnant and planning to move next week so we are in a rush to find a destination!! Anyone have any clues as to supportive obstetricians, doctors, midwives up that way? She doesn't want to birth at home so is looking for support in a hospital/ birth centreenvironment. Thanks in anticipation, Penny Burrows - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:34 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Stop me!. Now Im on the thread I cant seem to stop. MM Update of: Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2000;(2):CD001056. Periconceptional supplementation with folate and/or multivitamins for preventing neural tube defects. Lumley J, Watson L, Watson M, Bower C. Centre for the Study of Mothers' and Children's Health, La Trobe University, 251 Faraday St, Carlton, Vic, Australia, 3053. [EMAIL PROTECTED] BACKGROUND: Neural tube defects arise during the development of the brain and spinal cord. OBJECTIVES: The objective of this review was to assess the effects of increased consumption of folate or multivitamins on the prevalence of neural tube defects periconceptionally (that is before pregnancy and in the first two months of pregnancy). SEARCH STRATEGY: We searched the Cochrane Pregnancy and Childbirth Group trials register. Date of last search: April 2001. SELECTION CRITERIA: Randomised and quasi-randomised trials comparing periconceptional supplementation by multivitamins with placebo, folate with placebo, or multivitamins with folate; different dosages of multivitamins or folate; prepregnancy dietary advice and counselling in primary care settings to increase the consumption of folate-rich foods, or folate-fortified foods, with standard care; increased intensity of information provision with standard public health dissemination. DATA COLLECTION AND ANALYSIS: Two reviewers assessed trial quality and extracted data. MAIN RESULTS: Four trials of supplementation involving 6425 women were included. The trials all addressed the question of supplementation and they were of variable quality. Periconceptional folate supplementation reduced the incidence of neural tube defects (relative risk 0.28, 95% confidence interval 0.13 to 0.58). Folate supplementation did not significantly increase miscarriage, ectopic pregnancy or stillbirth, although there was a possible increase in multiple gestation. Multivitamins alone were not associated with prevention of neural tube defects and did not produce additional preventive effects when given with folate. One dissemination trial, a community randomised trial, was identified involving six communities, matched in pairs, and where 1206 women of child-bearing age were interviewed following the dissemination intervention. This showed that the provision of printed material increased the awareness of the folate/neural tube defects association by 4%, (odds ratio 1.37, 95% confidence interval 1.33 to 1.42). REVIEWER'S CONCLUSIONS: Periconceptional folate supplementation has a strong protective effect against neural tube defects. Information about folate should be made more widely available throughout the health and education systems. Women whose fetuses or babies have neural tube defects should be advised of the risk of recurrence in a subsequent pregnancy and offered continuing folate supplementation. The benefits and risks of fortifying basic food stuffs, such as flour, with added folate remain unresolved.
RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld?
Forgive my ignorance, but what is an EBAC? Thanks,Nicole. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Philippa ScottSent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 12:57 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Hi, I am in Townsville where we (Birth Buddies) have had a few clients have VBACS and EBACs. The Townsville Hospital (public) is the best bet up here. I have had a VBAC there to and am always pleased to help those planning VBACs. I can be contacted if you like on 47734075 or 0407648349. Cheers Philippa ScottBirth Buddies - DoulaAssisting women and their families in the preparation towards childbirth and labour.President of Friends of the Birth Centre Townsville From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Lynne StaffSent: Wednesday, 17 May 2006 8:57 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Hi Penny - she would be very welcome at Selangor, but Nambour is a little far from Cairns! Regards, Lynne - Original Message - From: penny burrows To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:54 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Hi everyone I have some childbirth education clients that are planning a move to Qld - somewhere between Airlie Beach and Cairns. The mum had a previous caesarean as her baby was breech (arghhh!!) and she really wants to land somewhere where she will be supportend to birth vaginally this time. She is 27 weeks pregnant and planning to move next week so we are in a rush to find a destination!! Anyone have any clues as to supportive obstetricians, doctors, midwives up that way? She doesn't want to birth at home so is looking for support in a hospital/ birth centreenvironment. Thanks in anticipation, Penny Burrows - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:34 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Stop me!. Now Im on the thread I cant seem to stop. MM Update of: Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2000;(2):CD001056. Periconceptional supplementation with folate and/or multivitamins for preventing neural tube defects.Lumley J, Watson L, Watson M, Bower C.Centre for the Study of Mothers' and Children's Health, La Trobe University, 251 Faraday St, Carlton, Vic, Australia, 3053. [EMAIL PROTECTED]BACKGROUND: Neural tube defects arise during the development of the brain and spinal cord. OBJECTIVES: The objective of this review was to assess the effects of increased consumption of folate or multivitamins on the prevalence of neural tube defects periconceptionally (that is before pregnancy and in the first two months of pregnancy). SEARCH STRATEGY: We searched the Cochrane Pregnancy and Childbirth Group trials register. Date of last search: April 2001. SELECTION CRITERIA: Randomised and quasi-randomised trials comparing periconceptional supplementation by multivitamins with placebo, folate with placebo, or multivitamins with folate; different dosages of multivitamins or folate; prepregnancy dietary advice and counselling in primary care settings to increase the consumption of folate-rich foods, or folate-fortified foods, with standard care; increased intensity of information provision with standard public health dissemination. DATA COLLECTION AND ANALYSIS: Two reviewers assessed trial quality and extracted data. MAIN RESULTS: Four trials of supplementation involving 6425 women were included. The trials all addressed the question of supplementation and they were of variable quality. Periconceptional folate supplementation reduced the incidence of neural tube defects (relative risk 0.28, 95% confidence interval 0.13 to 0.58). Folate supplementation did not significantly increase miscarriage, ectopic pregnancy or stillbirth, although there was a possible increase in multiple gestation. Multivitamins alone were not associated with prevention of neural tube defects and did not produce additional preventive effects when given with folate. One dissemination trial, a community randomised trial, was identified involving six communities, matched in pairs, and where 1206 women of child-bearing age were interviewed following the dissemination
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld?
Im glad you asked Nicole, thay way more of us will know!! : ) Di - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 1:55 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Forgive my ignorance, but what is an EBAC? Thanks,Nicole. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Philippa ScottSent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 12:57 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Hi, I am in Townsville where we (Birth Buddies) have had a few clients have VBACS and EBACs. The Townsville Hospital (public) is the best bet up here. I have had a VBAC there to and am always pleased to help those planning VBACs. I can be contacted if you like on 47734075 or 0407648349. Cheers Philippa ScottBirth Buddies - DoulaAssisting women and their families in the preparation towards childbirth and labour.President of Friends of the Birth Centre Townsville From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Lynne StaffSent: Wednesday, 17 May 2006 8:57 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Hi Penny - she would be very welcome at Selangor, but Nambour is a little far from Cairns! Regards, Lynne - Original Message - From: penny burrows To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:54 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld? Hi everyone I have some childbirth education clients that are planning a move to Qld - somewhere between Airlie Beach and Cairns. The mum had a previous caesarean as her baby was breech (arghhh!!) and she really wants to land somewhere where she will be supportend to birth vaginally this time. She is 27 weeks pregnant and planning to move next week so we are in a rush to find a destination!! Anyone have any clues as to supportive obstetricians, doctors, midwives up that way? She doesn't want to birth at home so is looking for support in a hospital/ birth centreenvironment. Thanks in anticipation, Penny Burrows - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:34 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Stop me!. Now Im on the thread I cant seem to stop. MM Update of: Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2000;(2):CD001056. Periconceptional supplementation with folate and/or multivitamins for preventing neural tube defects.Lumley J, Watson L, Watson M, Bower C.Centre for the Study of Mothers' and Children's Health, La Trobe University, 251 Faraday St, Carlton, Vic, Australia, 3053. [EMAIL PROTECTED]BACKGROUND: Neural tube defects arise during the development of the brain and spinal cord. OBJECTIVES: The objective of this review was to assess the effects of increased consumption of folate or multivitamins on the prevalence of neural tube defects periconceptionally (that is before pregnancy and in the first two months of pregnancy). SEARCH STRATEGY: We searched the Cochrane Pregnancy and Childbirth Group trials register. Date of last search: April 2001. SELECTION CRITERIA: Randomised and quasi-randomised trials comparing periconceptional supplementation by multivitamins with placebo, folate with placebo, or multivitamins with folate; different dosages of multivitamins or folate; prepregnancy dietary advice and counselling in primary care settings to increase the consumption of folate-rich foods, or folate-fortified foods, with standard care; increased intensity of information provision with standard public health dissemination. DATA COLLECTION AND ANALYSIS: Two reviewers assessed trial quality and extracted data. MAIN RESULTS: Four trials of supplementation involving 6425 women were included. The trials all addressed the question of supplementation and they were of variable quality. Periconceptional folate supplementation reduced the incidence of neural tube defects (relative risk 0.28, 95% confidence interval 0.13 to 0.58). Folate supplementation did
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in Qld?
Our Mareeba women who require a VBAC have to go to Cairns Base Hospital and a reasonable number of them achieve the vaginal birth. Would not be tempted to go private though. Cheers Judy [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16/05/2006 8:54:41 pm Hi everyone I have some childbirth education clients that are planning a move to Qld - somewhere between Airlie Beach and Cairns. The mum had a previous caesarean as her baby was breech (arghhh!!) and she really wants to land somewhere where she will be supportend to birth vaginally this time. She is 27 weeks pregnant and planning to move next week so we are in a rush to find a destination!! Anyone have any clues as to supportive obstetricians, doctors, midwives up that way? She doesn't want to birth at home so is looking for support in a hospital/ birth centreenvironment. Thanks in anticipation, Penny Burrows * This email, including any attachments sent with it, is confidential and for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). This confidentiality is not waived or lost, if you receive it and you are not the intended recipient(s), or if it is transmitted/ received in error. Any unauthorised use, alteration, disclosure, distribution or review of this email is strictly prohibited. The information contained in this email, including any attachment sent with it, may be subject to a statutory duty of confidentiality if it relates to health service matters. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or if you have received this email in error, you are asked to immediately notify the sender by telephone collect on Australia +61 1800 198 175 or by return email. You should also delete this email, and any copies, from your computer system network and destroy any hard copies produced. If not an intended recipient of this email, you must not copy, distribute or take any action(s) that relies on it; any form of disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this email is also prohibited. Although Queensland Health takes all reasonable steps to ensure this email does not contain malicious software, Queensland Health does not accept responsibility for the consequences if any person's computer inadvertently suffers any disruption to services, loss of information, harm or is infected with a virus, other malicious computer programme or code that may occur as a consequence of receiving this email. Unless stated otherwise, this email represents only the views of the sender and not the views of the Queensland Government.
[ozmidwifery] VBAC after 'tummy tuck'
Title: VBAC after 'tummy tuck' Dear Wise Women In have a tragic message from a woman wanting a VBA2C also has had a tummy tuck. So sad as she is one of the many who had a total number done on her. But she recognises that so thats positive. Any ideas re the tummy tuck. Knowing nothing I would think the tummy tuck bit would not interact with the c/s scar? Please advise! Many Thanks Justine
RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after 'tummy tuck'
Title: VBAC after 'tummy tuck' Hoi Justine, Can you explain me what a tummy tuck is? I am afraid my English is not that expert J Lieve Lieve Huybrechts vroedvrouw 0477740853 -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Justine Caines Verzonden: maandag 20 maart 2006 13:11 Aan: OzMid List Onderwerp: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after 'tummy tuck' Dear Wise Women In have a tragic message from a woman wanting a VBA2C also has had a tummy tuck. So sad as she is one of the many who had a total number done on her. But she recognises that so thats positive. Any ideas re the tummy tuck. Knowing nothing I would think the tummy tuck bit would not interact with the c/s scar? Please advise! Many Thanks Justine
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR?
Well said Brenda On 1/24/06, brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not on anyones side I am not intending to be inflammatory. But I am a realist inform my homebirthing clients that should they make controversial choices ( I am a big supporter of BAC VBreech) they need to be: not intending to allocate blame if the outcome is unfavourable. It means NOT SUING the OB/MW if the outcome is poor because the client has chosen to take responsibility for her own decision-making. This doesn't make the client a victim. She made informed choices, her caregiver agreed to work with them the outcome is then the clients responsibility (barring out out negligence). When we make important decisions we are accepting the responsibility of educating ourselves about the benefits risks of a procedure then accepting the outcome as this is the consequence of our actions. It's unreasonable to blame-shift if you make a decision while fully informed then don't like the outcome. I'm not absolving health professionals of their role which is to provide a safe practice arena within their sphere of expertise. We are all accountable for our own practice. But the ever increasing litigiousness of our society is a large part of why womens choices are so reduced. I believe that compromise is the solution globally. Unfortunately there are alot of professionals consumers who won't/don't/can't discuss 'give a little to get alot'. Collaborative practice is where everyone ( health prof clients) work together for the benefit of the client. That's what we are aiming for. With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Mike Lindsay Kennedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 10:49 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR? I like the point you make. People should be able to do it their way. And I see and hear midwives annoyance at manipulative behaviour by doctors. But I can also see it from a medical point of view. If it goes wrong the patients become victims and they and their lawyers come running looking for someone to blame. rgds mike On 1/23/06, brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jo, I would absolutely agree with your first statement, heard it many times, got in saved/rescued your baby, just in the nick of time ! I am such a hero! With the second part: whilst very supportive of BAC I think labouring with a uterus which has already dehisced is subsequently heavily scarred is really pushing the boundaries of safety. However: as long as the mother is well informed ( being well informed means knowing the down side as well as the up side) about the risks not intending to allocate blame if the outcome is unfavourable ie a second UR ( hysterectomy etc, plus or minus a fetal death) then she can do what ever she chooses. I have seen in OT the uterus of a woman booked for a repeat EL LUSCS, not in labour, 38/40 with a dehisced area easily 5 cms in the old scar no apparent ill effects for mother or baby. Normal obs, normal CTG, normal fetal mvmts. Absolutely no sign before OT that there was anything amiss. Amazing. She had been offered BAC chose LUSCS...what if ? With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Dean Jo To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:15 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR? not trying to be controversial (honest!) just wanting to think outside norm...how many times have I heard the story of an ob saying to a woman when giving her the repeat cs (for a 'failed vbac attempt not linked to a rupture) oh the scar was so thin it could have ripped open at any second...lucky I saved you from it. (well I am TRYING not sound too facetious) I suppose like anything we must look at rationale for the first event. IF a rupture did occur you could conclude that the repair to the uterus would be quite extensive IF she managed to not lose the uterus- hence the risks for future rupture would increase. But a dehiscence has not been proven to be a serious concern according to the investigation I have done in the last almost 9 years. There is speculation that a scar can slightly part with no harmful effects. Just asking questionsdon't they just HATE informed consumers! ;o) love Jo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:40 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: *SUSPECTED SPAM* Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR? You made all my points, Jo. : ) J - Original Message - From: Dean Jo To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:46 PM
RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after dehsicence or UR?
Title: Message I would have to look for the research (we all know how 'fair' research can be!) but the stated contra-indicators for vbac is previous rupture. Now it doesn't actually state if the chances of another rupture are higher than a normal scaror whether it is a case of "dam!Not going tolet that happen again!" attitude. You could argueI suppose that even a dehiscence that required repair would be considered the same as a repeat cs?? Perhaps no vbac after one rupture/dehiscence would be based on fear and/or presumption. Similar to the situation where a woman loses a baby during labour there is the assumption that she will want a cs next time.??? jo -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet FraserSent: Monday, January 23, 2006 3:37 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after dehsicence or UR? Hi all, does anyone know of research on VB after UR? I was asked this: So if you've had a scar come apart to the point where the baby was on its way out via the DIY sunroof, and the ob says he would have had to cut me open to stitch it up even if I had pushed the baby out, would that make VBA2C too risky? Thanks in advance, J Joyous Birth Home Birth Forum - a world first!http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/ Attending births is like growing roses. You have to marvel at the ones that just open up and bloom at the first kiss of the sun but you wouldn't dream of pulling open the petals of the tightly closed buds and forcing them to blossom to your time line. ~Gloria Lemay~ --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date: 1/20/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date: 1/20/2006
[ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR?
Title: Message not trying to be controversial (honest!) just wanting to think outside norm...how many times have I heard the story of an ob saying to a woman when giving her the repeat cs (for a 'failed vbac attempt not linked to a rupture) "oh the scar was so thin it could have ripped open at any second...lucky I saved you from it". (well I am TRYING not sound too facetious) I suppose like anything we must look at rationale for the first event. IF a rupture did occur you could conclude that the repair to the uterus would be quite extensive IF she managed to not lose the uterus-hence the risks for future rupture would increase. But a dehiscence has not been proven to be a serious concern according to the investigation I have done in the last almost 9 years. There is speculation that ascar can slightly part with no harmful effects. Just asking questionsdon't they just HATE informed consumers! ;o) love Jo -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet FraserSent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:40 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: *SUSPECTED SPAM* Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR? You made all my points, Jo. : ) J - Original Message - From: Dean Jo To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:46 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after dehsicence or UR? I would have to look for the research (we all know how 'fair' research can be!) but the stated contra-indicators for vbac is previous rupture. Now it doesn't actually state if the chances of another rupture are higher than a normal scaror whether it is a case of "dam!Not going tolet that happen again!" attitude. You could argueI suppose that even a dehiscence that required repair would be considered the same as a repeat cs?? Perhaps no vbac after one rupture/dehiscence would be based on fear and/or presumption. Similar to the situation where a woman loses a baby during labour there is the assumption that she will want a cs next time.??? jo -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet FraserSent: Monday, January 23, 2006 3:37 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after dehsicence or UR? Hi all, does anyone know of research on VB after UR? I was asked this: So if you've had a scar come apart to the point where the baby was on its way out via the DIY sunroof, and the ob says he would have had to cut me open to stitch it up even if I had pushed the baby out, would that make VBA2C too risky? Thanks in advance, J Joyous Birth Home Birth Forum - a world first!http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/ Attending births is like growing roses. You have to marvel at the ones that just open up and bloom at the first kiss of the sun but you wouldn't dream of pulling open the petals of the tightly closed buds and forcing them to blossom to your time line. ~Gloria Lemay~ --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date: 1/20/2006 --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date: 1/20/2006 --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date: 1/20/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date: 1/20/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR?
Title: Message
Jo,
I would absolutely agree with
your first statement, heard it many times, "got in saved/rescued your
baby, just in the nick of time" !
I am such a hero!
With the second part: whilst
very supportive of BACI think labouring with a
uterus which has already dehisced is subsequently heavily scarred is
really pushing the boundaries of safety.
However: as long as the
motheris well informed ( being well informed means knowing the down side as well
as the up side)about the risks
notintending to allocate blame if the outcomeis
unfavourableiea second UR ( hysterectomy etc, plus or minus
afetal death) then she can do what ever she chooses.
I have seen in OTthe
uterus of a woman booked for arepeat EL LUSCS, not in labour, 38/40 with
adehisced areaeasily 5 cms in the old scar no apparent ill
effects for mother or baby. Normal obs, normal CTG, normal fetal mvmts.
Absolutely no sign before OT that there was anything amiss.
Amazing.
She had been offered BAC
chose LUSCS...what if ?
With kind regardsBrenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au
- Original Message -
From:
Dean
Jo
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:15
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC
afterdehsicence or UR?
not
trying to be controversial (honest!) just wanting to think outside norm...how
many times have I heard the story of an ob saying to a woman when giving her
the repeat cs (for a 'failed vbac attempt not linked to a rupture) "oh the
scar was so thin it could have ripped open at any second...lucky I saved you
from it". (well I am TRYING not sound too facetious)
I
suppose like anything we must look at rationale for the first event. IF
a rupture did occur you could conclude that the repair to the uterus would be
quite extensive IF she managed to not lose the uterus-hence the risks
for future rupture would increase. But a dehiscence has not been proven
to be a serious concern according to the investigation I have done in the last
almost 9 years. There is speculation that ascar can slightly
part with no harmful effects.
Just
asking questionsdon't they just HATE informed consumers!
;o)
love
Jo
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet
FraserSent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:40 PMTo:
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: *SUSPECTED SPAM*
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR?
You made all my points,
Jo.
: )
J
- Original Message -
From:
Dean Jo
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:46
PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after
dehsicence or UR?
I would have to look for the research (we all know how 'fair'
research can be!) but the stated contra-indicators for vbac is previous
rupture. Now it doesn't actually state if the chances of another
rupture are higher than a normal scaror whether it is a case of
"dam!Not going tolet that happen again!" attitude. You
could argueI suppose that even a dehiscence that required repair
would be considered the same as a repeat cs?? Perhaps no vbac
after one rupture/dehiscence would be based on fear and/or
presumption. Similar to the situation where a woman loses a baby
during labour there is the assumption that she will want a cs next
time.???
jo
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet
FraserSent: Monday, January 23, 2006 3:37 PMTo:
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC
after dehsicence or UR?
Hi all,
does anyone know of
research on VB after UR? I was asked this:
So if you've had a scar come apart
to the point where the baby was on its way out via the DIY sunroof, and
the ob says he would have had to cut me open to stitch it up even if I
had pushed the baby out, would that make VBA2C too risky?
Thanks in
advance,
J
Joyous Birth Home
Birth Forum - a world first!http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/
Attending births is
like growing roses. You have to marvel at the ones that just open up and
bloom at the first kiss of the sun but you wouldn't dream of pulling
open the petals of the tightly closed buds and forcing them to blossom
to your time line.
~Gloria
Lemay~
--No virus found in this incoming
message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus
Database: 267.14.21/2
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR?
I like the point you make. People should be able to do it their way. And I see and hear midwives annoyance at manipulative behaviour by doctors. But I can also see it from a medical point of view. If it goes wrong the patients become victims and they and their lawyers come running looking for someone to blame. rgds mike On 1/23/06, brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jo, I would absolutely agree with your first statement, heard it many times, got in saved/rescued your baby, just in the nick of time ! I am such a hero! With the second part: whilst very supportive of BAC I think labouring with a uterus which has already dehisced is subsequently heavily scarred is really pushing the boundaries of safety. However: as long as the mother is well informed ( being well informed means knowing the down side as well as the up side) about the risks not intending to allocate blame if the outcome is unfavourable ie a second UR ( hysterectomy etc, plus or minus a fetal death) then she can do what ever she chooses. I have seen in OT the uterus of a woman booked for a repeat EL LUSCS, not in labour, 38/40 with a dehisced area easily 5 cms in the old scar no apparent ill effects for mother or baby. Normal obs, normal CTG, normal fetal mvmts. Absolutely no sign before OT that there was anything amiss. Amazing. She had been offered BAC chose LUSCS...what if ? With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Dean Jo To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:15 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR? not trying to be controversial (honest!) just wanting to think outside norm...how many times have I heard the story of an ob saying to a woman when giving her the repeat cs (for a 'failed vbac attempt not linked to a rupture) oh the scar was so thin it could have ripped open at any second...lucky I saved you from it. (well I am TRYING not sound too facetious) I suppose like anything we must look at rationale for the first event. IF a rupture did occur you could conclude that the repair to the uterus would be quite extensive IF she managed to not lose the uterus- hence the risks for future rupture would increase. But a dehiscence has not been proven to be a serious concern according to the investigation I have done in the last almost 9 years. There is speculation that a scar can slightly part with no harmful effects. Just asking questionsdon't they just HATE informed consumers! ;o) love Jo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:40 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: *SUSPECTED SPAM* Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR? You made all my points, Jo. : ) J - Original Message - From: Dean Jo To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:46 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after dehsicence or UR? I would have to look for the research (we all know how 'fair' research can be!) but the stated contra-indicators for vbac is previous rupture. Now it doesn't actually state if the chances of another rupture are higher than a normal scar or whether it is a case of dam! Not going to let that happen again! attitude. You could argue I suppose that even a dehiscence that required repair would be considered the same as a repeat cs?? Perhaps no vbac after one rupture/dehiscence would be based on fear and/or presumption. Similar to the situation where a woman loses a baby during labour there is the assumption that she will want a cs next time.??? jo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 3:37 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after dehsicence or UR? Hi all, does anyone know of research on VB after UR? I was asked this: So if you've had a scar come apart to the point where the baby was on its way out via the DIY sunroof, and the ob says he would have had to cut me open to stitch it up even if I had pushed the baby out, would that make VBA2C too risky? Thanks in advance, J Joyous Birth Home Birth Forum - a world first! http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/ Attending births is like growing roses. You have to marvel at the ones that just open up and bloom at the first kiss of the sun but you wouldn't dream of pulling open the petals of the tightly closed buds and forcing them to blossom to your time line. ~Gloria Lemay~ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date: 1/20/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date: 1/20/2006
RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR?
Yes totally agree with the right of refusal also must encompass the need to take accountability. I think the situation that is currently being discussed would be one of very personal nature. It is hard to advocate the right to choice for some as they may or may not be willing to acknowledge the negative potential outcomes. If they do then great, but if they want to ignore the bad what it's then it is an issue. There is vbac and then there is vbac with increased risks. In the situation of previous rupture and the chance to labour/birth again was so important to the woman it would be one of those situations that the more precautionary interventions would be more justifiable. My first point that I made was really to remind people to continue questioning and addressing the 'norms' and evaluate them all the time. I live in fear of fiction becoming fact which is so prevalent in obstetrics breech= cs because the term breech trial said so For the record, I would not try a vbac after a rupture personally. Love Jo -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.22/238 - Release Date: 1/23/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC afterdehsicence or UR?
I don’t think anyone took anything you said as inflammatory Brenda. What you have stated is true and fair. I think that the issue of suing has more to do with our societies inability to deal with grief productively perhaps? There is always a need to 'blame' and it is far easier to be angry at someone else rather than yourself. An open and honest relationship is what is needed hence the 10 minute appointments and the different care provider each time is simply not a sufficient system...for SO many reasons. Love Jo -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.22/238 - Release Date: 1/23/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after dehsicence or UR?
YES ! With kind regardsBrenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 4:07 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC after dehsicence or UR? Hi all, does anyone know of research on VB after UR? I was asked this: So if you've had a scar come apart to the point where the baby was on its way out via the DIY sunroof, and the ob says he would have had to cut me open to stitch it up even if I had pushed the baby out, would that make VBA2C too risky? Thanks in advance, J Joyous Birth Home Birth Forum - a world first!http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/ Attending births is like growing roses. You have to marvel at the ones that just open up and bloom at the first kiss of the sun but you wouldn't dream of pulling open the petals of the tightly closed buds and forcing them to blossom to your time line. ~Gloria Lemay~
[ozmidwifery] Vbac booklet
Oh, And payments can be sent to: CARES SA PO Box 1013 Nairne SA 5252 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/123 - Release Date: 10/6/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet
Jo would love a copy of the CD please let me know costs nicole u [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet
Me too. Kim. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Many thanks! ---Original Message--- From: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Date: 4/10/2005 10:02:02 a.m. To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet Dear Jo, A CD would be valuable and ever reusable resource count me in [EMAIL PROTECTED] Many Thanks Debbie Dear Jo, I'm with Judy here a CD would be very handy. Regards Anne Clarke - Original Message - From: "Judy Chapman" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet Jo, I would prefer a CD and run off copies at work. That way we can catch all women who need it rather than just the ones who can afford it. Cheers Judy --- Dean Jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi to everyone who has requested a copy of the booklet. I am waiting on Carolyn to come back from a well deserved holiday so we can confirm the cost for the booklet.Hard copies will be pricey due to the size of the booklet and postage, so I am investigating th option of burning it onto a CD which people can the use to run their own copies off.Would this be a more suitable option for people or would yu prefer hard copies? I have taken you names and such and will send an email out with all the confirmed details. Thanks for your support! Cheers Jo CARES SA -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/116 - Release Date: 9/30/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Movies: Check out the Latest Trailers, Premiere Photos and full Actor Database. http://au.movies.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet
Hi Jo, A copy of the vbac booklet on cd would be great. Thanks kathy - Original Message - From: Dean Jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 11:31 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet Hi to everyone who has requested a copy of the booklet. I am waiting on Carolyn to come back from a well deserved holiday so we can confirm the cost for the booklet. Hard copies will be pricey due to the size of the booklet and postage, so I am investigating th option of burning it onto a CD which people can the use to run their own copies off. Would this be a more suitable option for people or would yu prefer hard copies? I have taken you names and such and will send an email out with all the confirmed details. Thanks for your support! Cheers Jo CARES SA -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/116 - Release Date: 9/30/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet
Dear Jo, I'm with Judy here a CD would be very handy. Regards Anne Clarke - Original Message - From: Judy Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet Jo, I would prefer a CD and run off copies at work. That way we can catch all women who need it rather than just the ones who can afford it. Cheers Judy --- Dean Jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi to everyone who has requested a copy of the booklet. I am waiting on Carolyn to come back from a well deserved holiday so we can confirm the cost for the booklet. Hard copies will be pricey due to the size of the booklet and postage, so I am investigating th option of burning it onto a CD which people can the use to run their own copies off. Would this be a more suitable option for people or would yu prefer hard copies? I have taken you names and such and will send an email out with all the confirmed details. Thanks for your support! Cheers Jo CARES SA -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/116 - Release Date: 9/30/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Movies: Check out the Latest Trailers, Premiere Photos and full Actor Database. http://au.movies.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet
Me too if thats ok, Pauline - Original Message - From: Alan Rooney [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 10:51 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet Burning it on to a CD is a great idea. I would be interested in a copy Alan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean Jo Sent: Sunday, 2 October 2005 22:31 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet Hi to everyone who has requested a copy of the booklet. I am waiting on Carolyn to come back from a well deserved holiday so we can confirm the cost for the booklet. Hard copies will be pricey due to the size of the booklet and postage, so I am investigating th option of burning it onto a CD which people can the use to run their own copies off. Would this be a more suitable option for people or would yu prefer hard copies? I have taken you names and such and will send an email out with all the confirmed details. Thanks for your support! Cheers Jo CARES SA -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/116 - Release Date: 9/30/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet
Dear Jo, A CD would be valuable and ever reusable resource count me in [EMAIL PROTECTED] Many Thanks Debbie Dear Jo, I'm with Judy here a CD would be very handy. Regards Anne Clarke - Original Message - From: Judy Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet Jo, I would prefer a CD and run off copies at work. That way we can catch all women who need it rather than just the ones who can afford it. Cheers Judy --- Dean Jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi to everyone who has requested a copy of the booklet. I am waiting on Carolyn to come back from a well deserved holiday so we can confirm the cost for the booklet. Hard copies will be pricey due to the size of the booklet and postage, so I am investigating th option of burning it onto a CD which people can the use to run their own copies off. Would this be a more suitable option for people or would yu prefer hard copies? I have taken you names and such and will send an email out with all the confirmed details. Thanks for your support! Cheers Jo CARES SA -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/116 - Release Date: 9/30/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Movies: Check out the Latest Trailers, Premiere Photos and full Actor Database. http://au.movies.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet
It sounds like a sensible option. Saves paper and postage. Go for it! Put me in the list too please. Cheers, Mary Murphy so I am investigating th option of burning it onto a CD which people can the use to run their own copies off. Would this be a more suitable option for people or would yu prefer hard copies? I have taken you names and such and will send an email out with all the confirmed details. Thanks for your support! -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet
Can you count me in for one of those booklets too? Cheers, Tanya Fleming. - Original Message - From: Dean Jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 5:31 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet Hi to everyone who has requested a copy of the booklet. I am waiting on Carolyn to come back from a well deserved holiday so we can confirm the cost for the booklet. Hard copies will be pricey due to the size of the booklet and postage, so I am investigating th option of burning it onto a CD which people can the use to run their own copies off. Would this be a more suitable option for people or would yu prefer hard copies? I have taken you names and such and will send an email out with all the confirmed details. Thanks for your support! Cheers Jo CARES SA -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/116 - Release Date: 9/30/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet
Burning it on to a CD is a great idea. I would be interested in a copy Alan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean Jo Sent: Sunday, 2 October 2005 22:31 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet Hi to everyone who has requested a copy of the booklet. I am waiting on Carolyn to come back from a well deserved holiday so we can confirm the cost for the booklet. Hard copies will be pricey due to the size of the booklet and postage, so I am investigating th option of burning it onto a CD which people can the use to run their own copies off. Would this be a more suitable option for people or would yu prefer hard copies? I have taken you names and such and will send an email out with all the confirmed details. Thanks for your support! Cheers Jo CARES SA -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/116 - Release Date: 9/30/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet
Jo, I would prefer a CD and run off copies at work. That way we can catch all women who need it rather than just the ones who can afford it. Cheers Judy --- Dean Jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi to everyone who has requested a copy of the booklet. I am waiting on Carolyn to come back from a well deserved holiday so we can confirm the cost for the booklet. Hard copies will be pricey due to the size of the booklet and postage, so I am investigating th option of burning it onto a CD which people can the use to run their own copies off. Would this be a more suitable option for people or would yu prefer hard copies? I have taken you names and such and will send an email out with all the confirmed details. Thanks for your support! Cheers Jo CARES SA -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/116 - Release Date: 9/30/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Movies: Check out the Latest Trailers, Premiere Photos and full Actor Database. http://au.movies.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet
Hoi Jo, Would it be much trouble to send a CD to Belgium? Let me know how I can pay you. Lieve Huybrechts Lebonstraat 106 2440 Geel Belgium Greetings Lieve Lieve Huybrechts vroedvrouw 0477/740853 -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Dean Jo Verzonden: zondag 2 oktober 2005 14:31 Aan: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Onderwerp: [ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet Hi to everyone who has requested a copy of the booklet. I am waiting on Carolyn to come back from a well deserved holiday so we can confirm the cost for the booklet. Hard copies will be pricey due to the size of the booklet and postage, so I am investigating th option of burning it onto a CD which people can the use to run their own copies off. Would this be a more suitable option for people or would yu prefer hard copies? I have taken you names and such and will send an email out with all the confirmed details. Thanks for your support! Cheers Jo CARES SA -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/116 - Release Date: 9/30/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/116 - Release Date: 30/09/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/116 - Release Date: 30/09/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] VBAC Breech Twins
Okay women, here's your miracle for the day! This is from a doula friend in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. She has given permission to share it far and wide so feel free to repost. GloriaHello Everyone,I would like to report that my VBAC, Breech, with twins client gave birth totally naturally and without intervention at the Rockyview hospital last week. It was an awesome thing to witness. A woman saying No Thank You to fear mongering and letting her body guide the way. Baby A was breech so the 2nd stage was slow and the doctors can be quite intense with their comments. Here are some for the records .Delivering these babies naturally is just the same as throwing them off a cliff andYouve had a C-section before, and your uterus is now slowing down with contractions, these are signs that your uterus is about to explode, and that will kill you and your babiesThe babies are healthy and happy and the mom is so excited to have conquered her fears. Having had a C-section previously, she said that concentrating on the short term pain for long term gain got her through it. She couldnt bare the thought of another incision and now 3 babies to take care of. When the babies were delivered the room had 15 people in it. There was actually applause when the first baby emerged bum first. I think that after the staff realized that the Mom was going all the way with the requests they got excited (doc included). The hospital took advantage of the happening and invited various interns and students to the birth so that they could get an education on breech, twin deliveries. I guess not that many women ever get a chance to follow through with it, so no one gets the education. I was totally alarmed to that the hospital was so helpful. One of the nurses mentioned that the hospital had an incident 6 months ago where they tried to withdraw care because the woman wouldnt listen to them and things went bad so some policies have supposedly changed and they care for people no matter what their birth requests. I was impressed with the people on staff that day, but the pessimist in me knows the battle isnt over but things are changing! Thank you to Gloria and Patty who I called heading into the birth when some of the fear was rubbing off on me the Doula!Charis Curtis, W.T.Prema Sai Wholistic Living2713 14th St SWCalgary, AB T2T 3V2[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.premasai.ca
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Breech Twins
Thankyou so much for sharing this Gloria. This is the most brilliant thing I've heard for ages. It shows how motherscan change the culture from within, if we're strong enough. What an incredibly brave woman. I would love to read the birth story if there is one. This is the kind of thing I want to tell all the pregnant twins mums I meet. At an AMBA morning tea the other day I was the only one of 5 to have had a vaginal birth. This has absolutely made my day! Woke up in a very grouchy mood, perhaps I'll have a better day now. Would love to hear more of this sort of thing. It just doesn't occur to most people to question anything we're told by doctors midwives in hospital. We should be encouraged to ask ourselves, ok, if I just say no what will happen. We have a right to be in a hospital if we choose to without being held to ransom. I struggled to get my vaginal birth, and struggled with the fear passed on to me and to my husband. Had my babies been breech I'd have had no hope. I'd love to meet this woman and thank her on behalf of all mothers. Yvette mother of 5 including 1 month old twins Ps still working on full birth story, will post link when it's done. - Original Message - From: Gloria Lemay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:30 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Breech Twins Okay women, here's your miracle for the day! This is from a doula friend in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. She has given permission to share it far and wide so feel free to repost. GloriaHello Everyone,I would like to report that my VBAC, Breech, with twins client gave birth totally naturally and without intervention at the Rockyview hospital last week. It was an awesome thing to witness. A woman saying No Thank You to fear mongering and letting her body guide the way. Baby A was breech so the 2nd stage was slow and the doctors can be quite intense with their comments. Here are some for the records .Delivering these babies naturally is just the same as throwing them off a cliff andYouve had a C-section before, and your uterus is now slowing down with contractions, these are signs that your uterus is about to explode, and that will kill you and your babiesThe babies are healthy and happy and the mom is so excited to have conquered her fears. Having had a C-section previously, she said that concentrating on the short term pain for long term gain got her through it. She couldnt bare the thought of another incision and now 3 babies to take care of. When the babies were delivered the room had 15 people in it. There was actually applause when the first baby emerged bum first. I think that after the staff realized that the Mom was going all the way with the requests they got excited (doc included). The hospital took advantage of the happening and invited various interns and students to the birth so that they could get an education on breech, twin deliveries. I guess not that many women ever get a chance to follow through with it, so no one gets the education. I was totally alarmed to that the hospital was so helpful. One of the nurses mentioned that the hospital had an incident 6 months ago where they tried to withdraw care because the woman wouldnt listen to them and things went bad so some policies have supposedly changed and they care for people no matter what their birth requests. I was impressed with the people on staff that day, but the pessimist in me knows the battle isnt over but things are changing! Thank you to Gloria and Patty who I called heading into the birth when some of the fear was rubbing off on me the Doula!Charis Curtis, W.T.Prema Sai Wholistic Living2713 14th St SWCalgary, AB T2T 3V2[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.premasai.ca
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC and todays thought
Hi Meaghan, I just wanted to congratulate u on being someone who has the courage to stand in the face of so much objection. I am a homebirth midwife and It is a struggle for these women all the time and hence why a lot of them come to us. I am also the mother of a baby born at home after 2 caesars so tell the mum Congrats from Me Dierdre B. - Original Message - From: Meaghan Moon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 12:56 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC and todays thought Great thought, Mary. I just helped a mum through birth with a VBAC. She is 4'11'', very increased BMI (225lbs). First baby 6lb 5oz, cesarean for FTP as babe posterior with head deflexed. She was rehospitalized postpartum for infection at the incision site which I felt was likely superficial due to her size. I consulted as required by our hospital admitting privileges, and she was advised not to attempt TOL. Another physician actually laughed at her when she to her of her plan to birth vaginally with the physician asking who is the brave soul that is going to let you do that? She spent many visits in my ofice in tears. Even my midwifery colleagues were doubtful about the wisdom of letting her try. I lost my temper with them over it in the week before her birth, accusing them of being fatphobic. She went into labour spontaneously, walking into the clinic at 7 cms asking if she was really in labour. Went on to birth a 7lb 1oz baby 5 hours later with only about 40 mins of pushing. No problems, great recovery. I am going to pass on this quote to her, although we have discussed the concept already. Meaghan (in Canada) At 02:49 AM 2/15/05, you wrote: Thought for the Day: Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again. James R. Cook -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC and todays thought
Great thought, Mary. I just helped a mum through birth with a VBAC. She is 4'11'', very increased BMI (225lbs). First baby 6lb 5oz, cesarean for FTP as babe posterior with head deflexed. She was rehospitalized postpartum for infection at the incision site which I felt was likely superficial due to her size. I consulted as required by our hospital admitting privileges, and she was advised not to attempt TOL. Another physician actually laughed at her when she to her of her plan to birth vaginally with the physician asking who is the brave soul that is going to let you do that? She spent many visits in my ofice in tears. Even my midwifery colleagues were doubtful about the wisdom of letting her try. I lost my temper with them over it in the week before her birth, accusing them of being fatphobic. She went into labour spontaneously, walking into the clinic at 7 cms asking if she was really in labour. Went on to birth a 7lb 1oz baby 5 hours later with only about 40 mins of pushing. No problems, great recovery. I am going to pass on this quote to her, although we have discussed the concept already. Meaghan (in Canada) At 02:49 AM 2/15/05, you wrote: Thought for the Day: Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again. James R. Cook -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] vbac after 2 C/S
"Vaginal Birth following 2 caesarean sections" V.K.Garg, E.N. Ekuma-Nkama. International journal of Gynaecology and Obstetrics (Jan.2005) 88, 53-54. "205 women with 2 previous sections, delivered vaginally between 1997 2002 . 66 Vaginally (32.2%), 71 had elective C/S (34.6%), 68 had emergency C/SInduction or augmentation of labour was not offered due to increased incidence of uterine rupture. . The commplication rate was higher in the C/S group than in the VBAC2 group(19.5% v 7.4%) mean blood loss was higher in the C/S group than the vaginal group. There was no scar dehiscence or hysterectomy in either group...Thus, VBAC2 is reasonable and is sucessful with minimal complications if patient selection and labour management is judicious." This study was done in Saudi Arabia. Interesting that this study was published at least 1 month before Dr Malloy (?) was so dismissive of the safety of VBAC2 in the Australian media. Just shows he doesn't read his research. Cheers, MM
[ozmidwifery] VBAC in SMH Friday 17/12
Dear all, For your info I found out late this evening that there will be an article in tomorrow's Sydney Morning Herald by Julie Roebottom, about an article published today in the New England Journal of Medicine. I've not seen the article as yet, but Julie's summary of it is that it is an American study of 35,000 women (not a randomised trial but a retrospective study) which concludes that it is safer for women who have had prior CS to have a planned CS for subsequent births rather than a VBAC. In interviews with Andrew Childs (RANZCOG President) and other obs she has mainly received comment that this justifies the approach being taken in Australia and explains the rising rates of CS. In an interview with Julie tonight, I emphasized 2 key points: - CS is more dangerous than vaginal birth - re UK and other evidence of increased maternal deaths and infant deaths (Julie says this study also found higher rates of maternal death and hysterectomy in the repeat CS women) and we have to keep questioning the wisdom of performing CS for so many women's first births - What type of care did the VBAC women receive? - fragmented care from strangers, induction of labour, augmentation of labour, use of epidural anesethesia, lack of full information and support to understand the reasons surrounding a prior CS, and labels used about women (e.g. trial of scar, incompetent cervix, failure to progress) are all factors which impact negatively on women's confidence and success in VBAC. Depending on which page this article appears on, it is possible it will be picked up tomorrow by talk back radio, at least in Sydney. I'd encourage anyone who is able to keep an ear out for such programs and take the opportunity to ring in with a midwifery perspective on VBAC if at all possible. best wishes, Barb Vernon Executive Officer Australian College of Midwives. [EMAIL PROTECTED] P.S Please send any replies to this message to my WORK email address not this one. Thanks B -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC in SMH Friday 17/12
Hello all, I was sent this the other day by email from a lovely woman I'll be birthing with in the new year. Not sure how recent it is, but thought it relevant to the current conversation. Will contact her and find out where she sourced it from, and how long ago. Tania BY JONATHAN BOR Baltimore Sun Women who attempt normal deliveries after previous Caesarean sections run a very low risk of uterine tears and other complications, doctors leading a nationwide study said Tuesday. The risk is slightly higher than it is among women who have repeat Caesareans -- but not enough to justify denying women the option of vaginal deliveries or scaring them away from trying, researchers said. Mark Landon, an obstetrician with Ohio State University Medical Center and the study's principal investigator, said exaggerated claims about the dangers had led to a steep decline in the number of vaginal births after Caesareans, also known as VBACs. Last year, 10 percent of pregnant women who had prior Caesareans attempted to deliver vaginally -- down from 30 percent in 1996. Some doctors have refused to assist women in VBACs, and some hospitals, particularly in rural areas, have adopted policies forbidding them. I think the risk has been inflated by some, and it may in fact be concealed in the counseling process in an effort to steer certain women to having repeat operations, Landon said. The message is that this option should remain there for women. The decline in VBACs has been partly responsible for a continued rise in the Cesarean section rate in the United States, which last year rose to its highest level ever. Despite staunch efforts in the 1990s to lower the C-section rate, more than 27 percent of the 4 million babies born in the United States last year were born surgically. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] vbac
Could anyonepoint me in the right direction forany info I could pass on to a client. She had an emerg c/s 10 months ago for fetal distress and op position when fully dilated, and is passionate about having a vbac this time. However, she has been scared by many a friend and doctor, that as this only happened 10 months ago and she is now 12 weeks pregnant, she shouldn't be attempting a vbac, due to risk of uterine rupture.She had her first baby in a private hospital and has now come to me - I work at the WCH in Adealide in a caseload model. I have given her the Cares brochure, but english is her second language, and she seemed reluctant to ring or join them in any way. I know Ihave plenty of opportunity to discuss these issues with her, but also want to give her lots of stuff to read. I am also not sure myself if the risk of uterine rupture in her case is real as I remember reading somewhere it is ideal to wait 2 years before getting pregnant again after a c/s. Thanks, Kathy
Re: [ozmidwifery] vbac
Hi Kathy, I could post you the "Choices for Childbirth" vbac kit, - a photocopied pack outlining the vbac issue. Very good for couples looking for accurate evidence-based info. If you'd like me to send it just email me your postal address. Katrina - Original Message - From: simsarch To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 4:43 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] vbac Could anyonepoint me in the right direction forany info I could pass on to a client. She had an emerg c/s 10 months ago for fetal distress and op position when fully dilated, and is passionate about having a vbac this time. However, she has been scared by many a friend and doctor, that as this only happened 10 months ago and she is now 12 weeks pregnant, she shouldn't be attempting a vbac, due to risk of uterine rupture.She had her first baby in a private hospital and has now come to me - I work at the WCH in Adealide in a caseload model. I have given her the Cares brochure, but english is her second language, and she seemed reluctant to ring or join them in any way. I know Ihave plenty of opportunity to discuss these issues with her, but also want to give her lots of stuff to read. I am also not sure myself if the risk of uterine rupture in her case is real as I remember reading somewhere it is ideal to wait 2 years before getting pregnant again after a c/s. Thanks, Kathy
Re: [ozmidwifery] vbac
I'm a student midwife, member of Cares SA, who has VBACed. Can't remember the years thing. BUT, I would encourage her to contact Cares. Jo is away, so Carolyn would be the go. They are really good at group stuff, one-on-one if that's what's needed. Their library is fantastic and empowered me to fight for my VBAC. I'll email Carolyn with the timing question - she's not a midwife, but is a font of knowledge when it comes to VBAC. Also, either way and wherever she is birthing, I'd strongly encourage her to considera student midwife - both for the VBAC and language issues. CARES has two student midwives, and I'm sure we both need more women! Will get back to you. Kate - Original Message - From: simsarch To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 4:13 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] vbac Could anyonepoint me in the right direction forany info I could pass on to a client. She had an emerg c/s 10 months ago for fetal distress and op position when fully dilated, and is passionate about having a vbac this time. However, she has been scared by many a friend and doctor, that as this only happened 10 months ago and she is now 12 weeks pregnant, she shouldn't be attempting a vbac, due to risk of uterine rupture.She had her first baby in a private hospital and has now come to me - I work at the WCH in Adealide in a caseload model. I have given her the Cares brochure, but english is her second language, and she seemed reluctant to ring or join them in any way. I know Ihave plenty of opportunity to discuss these issues with her, but also want to give her lots of stuff to read. I am also not sure myself if the risk of uterine rupture in her case is real as I remember reading somewhere it is ideal to wait 2 years before getting pregnant again after a c/s. Thanks, Kathy
[ozmidwifery] VBAC contact for Qld.
Can anyone who has contacts re VBAC in the Toowoomba area of Queensland please get in touch off list as I have a client who has had X2 c/s in the past. She lives in Goondiwindi which is 250+ km away from the hospital. Many thanks Take care, Judy ___ Confidentiality Notice The information contained in this email message is intended for thenamed addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute, take any action reliant on, or disclose any details of the information in this email to any other person or organisation. If you received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately. __ Name; Judy Giesaitis RN CM MSc WHN CAFH Position: Health Consultant, Senior Research Associate in the field ofChildDevelopment and Human Relations. Dept:Health Management Company: Australian Health Management Address:Locked Bag 3 WOLLONGONG NSW 2500 Phone: 1800.653.316 Fax: 02.4227.1678 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] attachment: Notebook.jpg
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC contact for Qld.
Liz Wilkes is in Toowomba has a team of people. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Philippa ScottBirth Buddies - Original Message - From: Judy Giesaitis To: Ozmidwifery List (E-mail) Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:27 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC contact for Qld. Can anyone who has contacts re VBAC in the Toowoomba area of Queensland please get in touch off list as I have a client who has had X2 c/s in the past. She lives in Goondiwindi which is 250+ km away from the hospital. Many thanks Take care, Judy ___ Confidentiality Notice The information contained in this email message is intended for thenamed addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute, take any action reliant on, or disclose any details of the information in this email to any other person or organisation. If you received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately. __ Name; Judy Giesaitis RN CM MSc WHN CAFH Position: Health Consultant, Senior Research Associate in the field ofChildDevelopment and Human Relations. Dept:Health Management Company: Australian Health Management Address:Locked Bag 3 WOLLONGONG NSW 2500 Phone: 1800.653.316 Fax: 02.4227.1678 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC question again
Encourage her to find a new OB! If she chooses to stay with him, then she is choosing his opinions and they are obviously contradictory to what she wants. He sounds ignorant of the reality of vbacs. I am sure in Melbourne, there would be some supportive obs. Ob's like that make me so mad, but women continue to stay in their care, thinking they will have the birth they want, even though the ob has made it clear that they are not supportive. I did it too. I stayed with my ob that was a wanka and kept telling me I was going to have a c-sec??!! Sorry it has taken me a while to answer this Kirsten. I can't find those links anywhere, but here are some more. http://www.vbac.com/index.html http://www.vbac.org.uk/ http://www.ican-online.org/ You should be able to get heaps of info from those sites. A great site to get membership to is www.birthlove.com you really learn from the women and their stories. It is a great resource. It is great that you will be going through her pregnancy with her, will you be supporting at the birth and postnatally? Love Abby We attended her first obstetrician's appointment today, and he was going over some results from a pelvis scan she had done. He said that one of the upper (?) measurements was a little low/narrow, but it was no real cause for concern, because the results would need to be all quite abnormal to suggest complications with descent. However! Ahh the however! He went on to say that with anaesthetics being so safe these days, and the heightened risk associated with ruputre of the scar (trial of scar?) he would recommend that she go straight for the cs. At this point he thought it opportune to mention the deaths of 2 babies born this year at a local hospital during VBACs!! I kid you not!! He gives her a 60% chance of a successful (!!?) birth if VBAC, saying that a woman who had undergone the original cs due to breech position would have a higher chance of success than she would, as her complication was related to descent. All sounded very logical. And that is the scary thing to me!! So many women (me included I think, before I had started my course) would just say 'oh, yes, of course, you know best'. That just limits them so much. At the end of the day, he may be quite right, but at least give her the opportunity or means to investigate the options. Don't suggest her baby will die if she doesn't get a cs! Sorry - getting angry!! :) As soon as we were out of there I asked her how she felt about what he had told her, and she was quite concerned that he didn't offer her any support or guidance re the VBAC at all, and was quite distressed that he brought up the deaths of the 2 little babies earlier this year. I offered to get on here and get her some information, for which she was grateful. Just links to good sites would be great - Abby, I think you posted some when I asked my first VBAC question a couple of months ago. Anything at all would be very much appreciated. Many, many thanks, Kirsten -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC question again
Hi Lynne, - i live in melbourne. Thanks! K -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC question again
Hi Kirsten, I'm a 3rd year BMid @ VU. You probably already know about The Guide to Effective Care in Pregnancy Childbirth (Enkin et al), but they have a fantastic chapter called Labor and birth after previous cesarean section that's available free online at http://www.maternitywise.org/guide/ Here are a few consumer booklets about C/S: http://www.maternitywise.org/mw/topics/cesarean/booklet.html http://www.birthrites.org/BookletIndex.html Also, there is some great support information groups: * EBAC - Empowered Birth After Caesarean We are a group of mothers living in Melbourne, Victoria who have birthed our children via caesarean section. Some of us have gone on to have VBACs, others planned positive caesarean sections. We meet approximately every second month in our homes to discuss with others our stories and to share information andencouragement about choices for future births. Dates for 2004 are: * August 18th * September 11th - National Day of Caesarean Awareness * November 17th Please call Sarah 9557 2789 / 0418 331 824 or Rachel 9459 7374 / 0407 357 963 for further information and for the venues. Sarah - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rachel - [EMAIL PROTECTED] And Choices For Childbirth runs an info night on VBAC click here for more info a calender http://www.maternitycoalition.org.au/choices/choices.html All the best to you the woman, Jen P.S. Do you know that there's an email forum for BMid students? http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/BMidStudentCollective/ Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC question again
Kirsten, where do you live? - Original Message - From: Kirsten Wohlt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 3:16 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC question again Hi all, I know there has been a lot of discussion here in recent weeks about VBACs, so I'm sorry to ask again. I had a big problem with my email and have lost some folders where I keep articles of interest. I just wondered if I could be pointed to some positive resources for women considering VBAC. I am following a woman as part of my BMid course, who is 14 weeks pregnant with baby 2. Baby 1 was born via emergency cs after a failed induction - the baby was just not descending after 19 hours of relatively active (?) labour. She really wants to have this baby as naturally as possible. We attended her first obstetrician's appointment today, and he was going over some results from a pelvis scan she had done. He said that one of the upper (?) measurements was a little low/narrow, but it was no real cause for concern, because the results would need to be all quite abnormal to suggest complications with descent. However! Ahh the however! He went on to say that with anaesthetics being so safe these days, and the heightened risk associated with ruputre of the scar (trial of scar?) he would recommend that she go straight for the cs. At this point he thought it opportune to mention the deaths of 2 babies born this year at a local hospital during VBACs!! I kid you not!! He gives her a 60% chance of a successful (!!?) birth if VBAC, saying that a woman who had undergone the original cs due to breech position would have a higher chance of success than she would, as her complication was related to descent. All sounded very logical. And that is the scary thing to me!! So many women (me included I think, before I had started my course) would just say 'oh, yes, of course, you know best'. That just limits them so much. At the end of the day, he may be quite right, but at least give her the opportunity or means to investigate the options. Don't suggest her baby will die if she doesn't get a cs! Sorry - getting angry!! :) As soon as we were out of there I asked her how she felt about what he had told her, and she was quite concerned that he didn't offer her any support or guidance re the VBAC at all, and was quite distressed that he brought up the deaths of the 2 little babies earlier this year. I offered to get on here and get her some information, for which she was grateful. Just links to good sites would be great - Abby, I think you posted some when I asked my first VBAC question a couple of months ago. Anything at all would be very much appreciated. Many, many thanks, Kirsten -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] VBAC question again
Hi all, I know there has been a lot of discussion here in recent weeks about VBACs, so I'm sorry to ask again. I had a big problem with my email and have lost some folders where I keep articles of interest. I just wondered if I could be pointed to some positive resources for women considering VBAC. I am following a woman as part of my BMid course, who is 14 weeks pregnant with baby 2. Baby 1 was born via emergency cs after a failed induction - the baby was just not descending after 19 hours of relatively active (?) labour. She really wants to have this baby as naturally as possible. We attended her first obstetrician's appointment today, and he was going over some results from a pelvis scan she had done. He said that one of the upper (?) measurements was a little low/narrow, but it was no real cause for concern, because the results would need to be all quite abnormal to suggest complications with descent. However! Ahh the however! He went on to say that with anaesthetics being so safe these days, and the heightened risk associated with ruputre of the scar (trial of scar?) he would recommend that she go straight for the cs. At this point he thought it opportune to mention the deaths of 2 babies born this year at a local hospital during VBACs!! I kid you not!! He gives her a 60% chance of a successful (!!?) birth if VBAC, saying that a woman who had undergone the original cs due to breech position would have a higher chance of success than she would, as her complication was related to descent. All sounded very logical. And that is the scary thing to me!! So many women (me included I think, before I had started my course) would just say 'oh, yes, of course, you know best'. That just limits them so much. At the end of the day, he may be quite right, but at least give her the opportunity or means to investigate the options. Don't suggest her baby will die if she doesn't get a cs! Sorry - getting angry!! :) As soon as we were out of there I asked her how she felt about what he had told her, and she was quite concerned that he didn't offer her any support or guidance re the VBAC at all, and was quite distressed that he brought up the deaths of the 2 little babies earlier this year. I offered to get on here and get her some information, for which she was grateful. Just links to good sites would be great - Abby, I think you posted some when I asked my first VBAC question a couple of months ago. Anything at all would be very much appreciated. Many, many thanks, Kirsten -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education
Thanks Lynne for all that passion that you infused us with on the tour about VBAC. Had a woman come in (at night naturally) last week, very informed and positive, as was the doc - progressed slowly but successfully and over two shifts did a wonderful job. Then two nights ago had the most quick but gorgeous birth of a little cutie with her fist under the chin - it just gives me so much satisfaction when the doc wanders in - child is born, no 'stitchable' tears, deliriously happy parents and midwife is happy too. Cheryl From: Lynne Staff [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 07:57:57 +1000 Hi Abby - I will email you the information in the next couple of days - outline is at work and I am not! I am thrilled at the number of midwives who have been in contact with me about setting up VBAC infoservices and programs for women all around the country since the Keeping Birth Normal tour in April/May with Andrea, Maggie and Vicki. The intererest and support has overwhelmed me - thankyou to all who have contacted me, and approached me for information and the outline. If you are still waiting, it is on the way! Warm regards,Lynne - Original Message - From: Abby and Toby To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education I would be happy to share our program - we have been supporting VBAC since opening the maternity unit in 1998 and have an overall average of 80% of women planning VBAC, doing it. A passion of mine!Regards, Lynne Hi Lynne, I would love to have a copy of your program. I am planning on starting a vbac support group in the Blue Mountains. My email address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Love Abby _ SEEK: Now with over 50,000 dream jobs! Click here: http://ninemsn.seek.com.au?hotmail -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC and Acyclovire help
Thanks Jen, she has been in contact with Sunshine and has an appt, it's looking really positive! Katrina - Original Message - From: Jen Semple [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC and Acyclovire help Also, someone on Ozmid mentioned this source awhile ago I have found it useful: Australian Herpes Management Forum via their website http://www.herpes.on.net and view the section Management of Genital Herpes Simplex Infection in Pregnancy --- Tim and Katrina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I'm writing to ask opinions and for any possible contacts for a friend due with second baby in October. She had c/s with first babe due herpes and having a lesion at the time of her birth. My friend lives in Kyneton Vic and is booked into her local hospital for an elective c/s but has the desire for a vbac if she can find a supportive ob (she's doesn't want a homebirth). Her local hosp does not accept vbacs. She has had mixed reactions when talking to hosp staff about taking Acyclovire during the last month of pregnancy. I understand that some ob's will prescribe it and some will not. Seems like the likelihood of having no lesions at the time of birth is low without Acyclovire. Does anyone know how she can access a supportive caregiver within the public system? She is willing to travel to Melb if she has to. Many thanks, Katrina Matthews Birth Attendant Breastfeeding Counsellor Mumma to Ethan (1998, c/s) and Clairie (2000, vbac) Partner to Luurvly Tim Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] VBAC contact in the ACT
I have a client in the ACT who has a h/o previous uterine surgery and anemergency c/s and would like to contact anyone in the ACT who has a similar history. Does anyone know of anyone who would be happy to chat to her?? please feel free to contact me off list [EMAIL PROTECTED] many thanks. Take care, Judy ___ Confidentiality Notice The information contained in this email message is intended for thenamed addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute, take any action reliant on, or disclose any details of the information in this email to any other person or organisation. If you received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately. __ Name; Judy Giesaitis RN CM MSc WHN CAFH Position: Health Consultant, Senior Research Associate in the field of Child Development and Human Relations. Dept:CareLink Company: Australian Health Management Group Address:Locked Bag 3 WOLLONGONG NSW 2500 Phone: 1800.653.316 Fax: 02.4227.1678 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] attachment: Notebook.jpg
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC and Acyclovire help
Hi Katrina, She should give the wonderful clinical midwife consultants (CMC)at Sunshine hospital a ring. I know Sunshine has lots of VBACs. Ring 8345 1333 ask to speak to the CMCs. Best of luck, Jen --- Tim and Katrina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I'm writing to ask opinions and for any possible contacts for a friend due with second baby in October. She had c/s with first babe due herpes and having a lesion at the time of her birth. My friend lives in Kyneton Vic and is booked into her local hospital for an elective c/s but has the desire for a vbac if she can find a supportive ob (she's doesn't want a homebirth). Her local hosp does not accept vbacs. She has had mixed reactions when talking to hosp staff about taking Acyclovire during the last month of pregnancy. I understand that some ob's will prescribe it and some will not. Seems like the likelihood of having no lesions at the time of birth is low without Acyclovire. Does anyone know how she can access a supportive caregiver within the public system? She is willing to travel to Melb if she has to. Many thanks, Katrina Matthews Birth Attendant Breastfeeding Counsellor Mumma to Ethan (1998, c/s) and Clairie (2000, vbac) Partner to Luurvly Tim Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC and Acyclovire help
Also, someone on Ozmid mentioned this source awhile ago I have found it useful: Australian Herpes Management Forum via their website http://www.herpes.on.net and view the section Management of Genital Herpes Simplex Infection in Pregnancy --- Tim and Katrina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I'm writing to ask opinions and for any possible contacts for a friend due with second baby in October. She had c/s with first babe due herpes and having a lesion at the time of her birth. My friend lives in Kyneton Vic and is booked into her local hospital for an elective c/s but has the desire for a vbac if she can find a supportive ob (she's doesn't want a homebirth). Her local hosp does not accept vbacs. She has had mixed reactions when talking to hosp staff about taking Acyclovire during the last month of pregnancy. I understand that some ob's will prescribe it and some will not. Seems like the likelihood of having no lesions at the time of birth is low without Acyclovire. Does anyone know how she can access a supportive caregiver within the public system? She is willing to travel to Melb if she has to. Many thanks, Katrina Matthews Birth Attendant Breastfeeding Counsellor Mumma to Ethan (1998, c/s) and Clairie (2000, vbac) Partner to Luurvly Tim Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] VBAC and Acyclovire help
Hi All, I'm writing to ask opinions and for any possible contacts for a friend due with second baby in October. She had c/s with first babe due herpes and having a lesion at the time of her birth. My friend lives in Kyneton Vic and is booked into her local hospital for an elective c/s but has the desire for a vbac if she can find a supportive ob (she's doesn't want a homebirth). Her local hosp does not accept vbacs. She has had mixed reactions when talking to hosp staff about taking Acyclovire during the last month of pregnancy. I understand that some ob's will prescribe it and some will not. Seems like the likelihood of having no lesions at the time of birth is low without Acyclovire. Does anyone know how she can access a supportive caregiver within the public system? She is willing to travel to Melb if she has to. Many thanks, Katrina Matthews Birth Attendant Breastfeeding Counsellor Mumma to Ethan (1998, c/s) and Clairie (2000, vbac) Partner to Luurvly Tim -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC and Acyclovire help
A section is only required with a primary lesion. She should now be treated as normal even if she had a lesion she could birth vaginally but take acyclovire during labout. The WCH Adelaide has a good protocol which is evidence based not fear based. Belinda - Original Message - From: Tim and Katrina [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmid [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 2:07 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC and Acyclovire help Hi All, I'm writing to ask opinions and for any possible contacts for a friend due with second baby in October. She had c/s with first babe due herpes and having a lesion at the time of her birth. My friend lives in Kyneton Vic and is booked into her local hospital for an elective c/s but has the desire for a vbac if she can find a supportive ob (she's doesn't want a homebirth). Her local hosp does not accept vbacs. She has had mixed reactions when talking to hosp staff about taking Acyclovire during the last month of pregnancy. I understand that some ob's will prescribe it and some will not. Seems like the likelihood of having no lesions at the time of birth is low without Acyclovire. Does anyone know how she can access a supportive caregiver within the public system? She is willing to travel to Melb if she has to. Many thanks, Katrina Matthews Birth Attendant Breastfeeding Counsellor Mumma to Ethan (1998, c/s) and Clairie (2000, vbac) Partner to Luurvly Tim -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education
Hi Abby - I will email you the information in the next couple of days - outline is at work and I am not! I am thrilled at the number of midwives who have been in contact with me about setting up VBAC infoservices and programs for women all around the countrysince the Keeping Birth Normal tour in April/May with Andrea, Maggie and Vicki. The intererestand support has overwhelmed me- thankyou to all who have contacted me, and approached me for information and the outline. If you are stillwaiting, it is on the way! Warm regards,Lynne - Original Message - From: Abby and Toby To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education I would be happy to share our program - we have been supporting VBAC since opening the maternity unit in 1998 and have an overall average of 80% of women planning VBAC, doing it. A passion of mine!Regards, Lynne Hi Lynne, I would love to have a copy of your program. I am planning on starting a vbac support group in the Blue Mountains. My email address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Love Abby
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education
Lynne, canyou email me off line? cheers Jo Bainbridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Lynne Staff To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education Hi Abby - I will email you the information in the next couple of days - outline is at work and I am not! I am thrilled at the number of midwives who have been in contact with me about setting up VBAC infoservices and programs for women all around the countrysince the Keeping Birth Normal tour in April/May with Andrea, Maggie and Vicki. The intererestand support has overwhelmed me- thankyou to all who have contacted me, and approached me for information and the outline. If you are stillwaiting, it is on the way! Warm regards,Lynne - Original Message - From: Abby and Toby To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education I would be happy to share our program - we have been supporting VBAC since opening the maternity unit in 1998 and have an overall average of 80% of women planning VBAC, doing it. A passion of mine!Regards, Lynne Hi Lynne, I would love to have a copy of your program. I am planning on starting a vbac support group in the Blue Mountains. My email address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Love Abby
RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC 'mangement'
Dear Jo, As you maybe aware our unit does continous fetal monitoring during labour especially if induction of labour. However, we do have a telemitry fetal monitor unit which i strongly suggest the women ask for so that if they are continued monitored so that they can still be upright during the labour. regards kathy -- Original Message -- From: Dean Jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC 'mangement' Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:10:48 +0930 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi everyone, on the topic of VBAC I would like to ask those who are offering VBAC models of care to contact me with their VBAC 'management' as I am writing a feed back for the SA state perinatal protocols for VBAC management (I hate the word management as you may have guessed!!). The policies are based on the multicentred study of vbac from 2000 which we all know, and the things they re suggesting to be state wide policies include the heavy use of continuous monitoring due to rupture detection. My argument is that they are referring to studies that have only looked at vbac acre and outcomes from the medical model and have ignored the care and outcomes of birthing centre or midwifery led models. These policies will impact everywhere in SA. To have some stats, outcomes and so forth from alternatives from the labour ward 'care' (that concept of care which includes induction/augmentation etc makes me shudder also) would be handy. I would need it ASAP though. Hope someone has the time to respond. cheers Jo -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC classes information
I suggest getting hold of the VBAC Source book and teaching kit by Nicette Jukelevics and Ruth Ancheta by ICEA publications. i got hold of it from ACE graphics. it is a great resource with virtually all the information you need to run vbac classes including handouts etc.. also try Bronni Handfield's thrown in the deep end, it has good ideas as well. regards kathy -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education
I would be happy to share our program - we have been supporting VBAC since opening the maternity unit in 1998 and have an overall average of 80% of women planning VBAC, doing it. A passion of mine!Regards, Lynne Hi Lynne, I would love to have a copy of your program. I am planning on starting a vbac support group in the Blue Mountains. My email address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Love Abby
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education
- Original Message - From: Kathy McCarthy-Bushby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 7:56 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education Sue, you could get a hold of the VBAC source book and teaching kit by Nicette Jukelevics and Ruth Ancheta that can be obtained from ACE graphics. It has lots of information about VBAC versus C/S. Another good book is Bronni Hanfield's Thrown in the deep end i think it's called from memory. One teaching tool for c/s i use is the sequence cards of the procedure for a c/s including pictures, so that after i have talked about c/s, the group then have to put the cards in order of how a c/s would be done, the cards provide useful information as well. I feel it is important to talk about VBAC when I discuss C/S at antenatal classes, so that women who have a c/s know a little bit about their options next time. Otherwise, I suggest look into the National Association of Childbirth Education (NACE), or look at www.birthrites.org and www.cares-sa.org i hope this helps kathy - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: midwifery list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 12:40 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education Dear list The recent posts on VBAC have been useful as we are looking into offering Childbirth classes specifically for women who have had a C/S, in addition to the ones presently being offered. Does anyone have some previous class formats that may have worked well that they would be happy to share? Thanks Sue -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education
Hi Sue I would be happy to share our program - we have been supporting VBAC since opening the maternity unit in 1998 and have an overall average of 80% of women planning VBAC, doing it. A passion of mine! Regards, Lynne - Original Message - From: Philippa Scott To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education Sue, I believe that Selengor Private Hospital in Nambour QLD run a course that they are happy for others to share the curriculum. I believe Lynne Staff would have the info you need. Philippa - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: midwifery list Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 12:10 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education Dear list The recent posts on VBAC have been useful as we are looking into offering Childbirth classes specifically for women who have had a C/S, in addition to the ones presently being offered. Does anyone have some previous class formats that may have worked well that they would be happy to share? Thanks Sue
[ozmidwifery] VBAC 'mangement'
Hi everyone, on the topic of VBAC I would like to ask those who are offering VBAC models of care to contact me with their VBAC 'management' as I am writing a feed back for the SA state perinatal protocols for VBAC management (I hate the word management as you may have guessed!!). The policies are based on the multicentred study of vbac from 2000 which we all know, and the things they re suggesting to be state wide policies include the heavy use of continuous monitoring due to rupture detection. My argument is that they are referring to studies that have only looked at vbac acre and outcomes from the medical model and have ignored the care and outcomes of birthing centre or midwifery led models. These policies will impact everywhere in SA. To have some stats, outcomes and so forth from alternatives from the labour ward 'care' (that concept of care which includes induction/augmentation etc makes me shudder also) would be handy. I would need it ASAP though. Hope someone has the time to respond. cheers Jo
RE: [ozmidwifery] VBAC 'mangement'
Jo, Did you manage to get a copy of the article Trial of labor uterine rupture risk exaggerated British Medical Journal 2004; 329: 19-25 that was posted on Ozmid a few days ago? The article was based on a systematic review of uterine rupture and VBAC. Leanne. From: Dean Jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC 'mangement' Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:10:48 +0930 Hi everyone, on the topic of VBAC I would like to ask those who are offering VBAC models of care to contact me with their VBAC 'management' as I am writing a feed back for the SA state perinatal protocols for VBAC management (I hate the word management as you may have guessed!!). The policies are based on the multicentred study of vbac from 2000 which we all know, and the things they re suggesting to be state wide policies include the heavy use of continuous monitoring due to rupture detection. My argument is that they are referring to studies that have only looked at vbac acre and outcomes from the medical model and have ignored the care and outcomes of birthing centre or midwifery led models. These policies will impact everywhere in SA. To have some stats, outcomes and so forth from alternatives from the labour ward 'care' (that concept of care which includes induction/augmentation etc makes me shudder also) would be handy. I would need it ASAP though. Hope someone has the time to respond. cheers Jo Leanne Wynne Midwife in charge of Women's Business Mildura Aboriginal Health Service Mob 0418 371862 _ ½ Price FOXTEL Digital Installation On-Line Limited Offer: http://ad.au.doubleclick.net/clk;9412514;9681905;p?http://www.foxtel.tv -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] VBAC education
Dear list The recent posts on VBAC have been useful as we are looking into offering Childbirth classes specifically for women who have had a C/S, in addition to the ones presently being offered. Does anyone have some previous class formats that may have worked well that they would be happy to share? Thanks Sue
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education
Have you checked out the VBAC Resource Kit? If you inquire through Birthrites - Healing After Caesarean www.birthrites.org who use this kit for VBAC education with Peel PRMS Group it should be really helpful. Kind regards, Lois Wattis - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: midwifery list Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 10:40 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education Dear list The recent posts on VBAC have been useful as we are looking into offering Childbirth classes specifically for women who have had a C/S, in addition to the ones presently being offered. Does anyone have some previous class formats that may have worked well that they would be happy to share? Thanks Sue
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education
Sue, I believe that Selengor Private Hospital in Nambour QLD run a course that they are happy for others to share the curriculum. I believe Lynne Staff would have the info you need. Philippa - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: midwifery list Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 12:10 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education Dear list The recent posts on VBAC have been useful as we are looking into offering Childbirth classes specifically for women who have had a C/S, in addition to the ones presently being offered. Does anyone have some previous class formats that may have worked well that they would be happy to share? Thanks Sue
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education
Kathy from Tassie has a brilliant vbac information/program also. I am sure she is on this list. cheers Jo - Original Message - From: Philippa Scott To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education Sue, I believe that Selengor Private Hospital in Nambour QLD run a course that they are happy for others to share the curriculum. I believe Lynne Staff would have the info you need. Philippa - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: midwifery list Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 12:10 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education Dear list The recent posts on VBAC have been useful as we are looking into offering Childbirth classes specifically for women who have had a C/S, in addition to the ones presently being offered. Does anyone have some previous class formats that may have worked well that they would be happy to share? Thanks Sue
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Support Groups
Hi Abby, I'm a midwifery student in Melbourne went to an info night type thing on C/S Awareness day last year. One of the women who convenes EBAC - Empowered Birth After Caesarean (a local Melbourne group) spoke that night. Her name is Sarah here are her details: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (03) 9557 2789 / 0418 331 824 I got her details off of the "local contacts" area on the Birthrites website. There's more info about that group others there if those contact details don't work or if you want more info. Best of luck, JenAbby and Toby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi,Does anyone here run support groups for women planning vbacs? I would loveto hear from you if you do.[EMAIL PROTECTED]ThanksLove Abby--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe. Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Support Groups
Hi there, Philippa here from Birth Buddies in Townsville. We are running a 6-7wk course called healing birth that is open to all women but caters very well to women preparing a VBAC. Regards Philippa - Original Message - From: Abby and Toby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 11:18 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Support Groups Hi, Does anyone here run support groups for women planning vbacs? I would love to hear from you if you do. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] VBAC Support Groups
Hi, Does anyone here run support groups for women planning vbacs? I would love to hear from you if you do. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Support Groups
Hi Abby - here in WA we have Birthrites - Healing After Caesarean www.birthrites.org Also Peel PRMS Group (Pregnancy Resources and Midwifery Support Group) in the Peel Region (south of Perth) provide VBAC education sessions and a support group called Bumps and Babies www.birthjourney.com select PRMS webpage. The Community Midwifery Program in WA supports women wanting VBAC, and provides 1-2-1 midwifery care, with births planned in hospital, and continuing care at home by known midwife after the birth. Cheers, LoisWattis, IPM. - Original Message - From: Abby and Toby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 9:48 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Support Groups Hi, Does anyone here run support groups for women planning vbacs? I would love to hear from you if you do. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Support Groups
I do Abby, I am co-founder and co-ordinator of CARES SA (Caesarean Awareness Recovery Education Support SA). We deal with women who have had a cs and not thought it was the best thing sliced bread ad also those who want to have a vbac (we also deal with all in between!) you can contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] from Jo - Original Message - From: Abby and Toby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 11:18 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Support Groups Hi, Does anyone here run support groups for women planning vbacs? I would love to hear from you if you do. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Support Groups
Thanks so much for that info Lois. Love Abby - Original Message - From: Lois Wattis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 12:38 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Support Groups Hi Abby - here in WA we have Birthrites - Healing After Caesarean www.birthrites.org Also Peel PRMS Group (Pregnancy Resources and Midwifery Support Group) in the Peel Region (south of Perth) provide VBAC education sessions and a support group called Bumps and Babies www.birthjourney.com select PRMS webpage. The Community Midwifery Program in WA supports women wanting VBAC, and provides 1-2-1 midwifery care, with births planned in hospital, and continuing care at home by known midwife after the birth. Cheers, LoisWattis, IPM. - Original Message - From: Abby and Toby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 9:48 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC Support Groups Hi, Does anyone here run support groups for women planning vbacs? I would love to hear from you if you do. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Love Abby -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC multi-centred study
WOW! it is amazing how high the numbers arer of ruptures that occur NOT during labour?? Kathy, I found you VBAC stuff you sent the other day and alsofound the reply I had dedicatedly written and negated to post!!! I am so sorry! I would love to talk to you about this off list if you want to. cheers Jo - Original Message - From: Kathy McCarthy-Bushby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC multi-centred study Dear Jo, You can get this research article in the Australia NZ J Obstetric Gynaecol 2000:40; 1; 87-91. In regard to the uterine rupture rates there is a table in this article that states - designated trial of labour - 26 - other lower segment scar - 4 in labour; 7 not in labour - classical or other scar - 3 in labour; 5 not in labour - not scarred - 13 in labour; 4 not in labour - all patients - 46 in labour; 16 not in labour I hope this helps you in some way. cheers kathy - Original Message - From: Dean Jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 8:57 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC multi-centred study Is there anyone in ozmid land who has the full study: Vaginal birth after Caesarean section: an Australian multicentre study. VBAC Study Group. Appleton B, Targett C, Rasmussen M, Readman E, Sale F, Permezel M. I am tring to determine exactly what ruptures the researchers refer to... the abstract reads: Retrospective analysis of medical records and individual case review was undertaken at 11 major obstetric hospitals for a 5 year period from July 1992 to June 1997 to investigate rates of vaginal birth after Caesarean section (VBAC), the occurrences of uterine rupture, and the outcomes for mother and infant following rupture. Total deliveries were 234,015, of which 21,452 or 9.2% were associated with one or more previous Caesarean sections. Within this scar group, 5419 patients or 25.3% were delivered vaginally. There were 62 cases of significant uterine rupture with no maternal deaths. I will never claim to be an expert at critiquing research, so hope that someone can offer some suggestion. My question is this...it says that there were 62 ruptures but they dont say exactly which groups these ruptures occurred in- was it just the women with previous cs history? Was it just the whole numbers, ie including those without cs history? As it reads it doesnt really say specifically. It also reads: In women attempting vaginal delivery after a previous lower segment Caesarean section, the uterine rupture rate was estimated at 0.3%, with 0.05% experiencing a perinatal death and 0.05% requiring a hysterectomy. What are the current figures relating to women having cs requiring hystorectomy?? Can anyone chat to me about this soon as i am writing a report on a document that will have HUGE impact on vbac acre here isn SA...and possibly not for the good! cheers Jo Bainbridge -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC multi-centred study
Jo, it would be great to catch up with you offline about our vbac passion.but right now i have got to get ready for night duty. glad to have been able to help. cheers kathy - Original Message - From: Dean Jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 7:59 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC multi-centred study WOW! it is amazing how high the numbers arer of ruptures that occur NOT during labour?? Kathy, I found you VBAC stuff you sent the other day and alsofound the reply I had dedicatedly written and negated to post!!! I am so sorry! I would love to talk to you about this off list if you want to. cheers Jo - Original Message - From: Kathy McCarthy-Bushby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC multi-centred study Dear Jo, You can get this research article in the Australia NZ J Obstetric Gynaecol 2000:40; 1; 87-91. In regard to the uterine rupture rates there is a table in this article that states - designated trial of labour - 26 - other lower segment scar - 4 in labour; 7 not in labour - classical or other scar - 3 in labour; 5 not in labour - not scarred - 13 in labour; 4 not in labour - all patients - 46 in labour; 16 not in labour I hope this helps you in some way. cheers kathy - Original Message - From: Dean Jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 8:57 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC multi-centred study Is there anyone in ozmid land who has the full study: Vaginal birth after Caesarean section: an Australian multicentre study. VBAC Study Group. Appleton B, Targett C, Rasmussen M, Readman E, Sale F, Permezel M. I am tring to determine exactly what ruptures the researchers refer to... the abstract reads: Retrospective analysis of medical records and individual case review was undertaken at 11 major obstetric hospitals for a 5 year period from July 1992 to June 1997 to investigate rates of vaginal birth after Caesarean section (VBAC), the occurrences of uterine rupture, and the outcomes for mother and infant following rupture. Total deliveries were 234,015, of which 21,452 or 9.2% were associated with one or more previous Caesarean sections. Within this scar group, 5419 patients or 25.3% were delivered vaginally. There were 62 cases of significant uterine rupture with no maternal deaths. I will never claim to be an expert at critiquing research, so hope that someone can offer some suggestion. My question is this...it says that there were 62 ruptures but they dont say exactly which groups these ruptures occurred in- was it just the women with previous cs history? Was it just the whole numbers, ie including those without cs history? As it reads it doesnt really say specifically. It also reads: In women attempting vaginal delivery after a previous lower segment Caesarean section, the uterine rupture rate was estimated at 0.3%, with 0.05% experiencing a perinatal death and 0.05% requiring a hysterectomy. What are the current figures relating to women having cs requiring hystorectomy?? Can anyone chat to me about this soon as i am writing a report on a document that will have HUGE impact on vbac acre here isn SA...and possibly not for the good! cheers Jo Bainbridge -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] VBAC multi-centred study
Is there anyone in ozmid land who has the full study: Vaginal birth after Caesarean section: an Australian multicentre study. VBAC Study Group.Appleton B, Targett C, Rasmussen M, Readman E, Sale F, Permezel M. I am tring to determine exactly what ruptures the researchers refer to... the abstract reads: Retrospective analysis of medical records and individual case review was undertaken at 11 major obstetric hospitals for a 5 year period from July 1992 to June 1997 to investigate rates of vaginal birth after Caesarean section (VBAC), the occurrences of uterine rupture, and the outcomes for mother and infant following rupture. Total deliveries were 234,015, of which 21,452 or 9.2% were associated with one or more previous Caesarean sections. Within this scar group, 5419 patients or 25.3% were delivered vaginally. There were 62 cases of significant uterine rupture with no maternal deaths. I willnever claim to be an expert at critiquing research, so hope that someone can offer some suggestion. My question is this...it says that there were 62 ruptures but they dont say exactly which groups these ruptures occurred in- was it just thewomen with previous cs history? Was it just the whole numbers, ie including those without cs history? As it reads it doesnt really say specifically. It also reads: In women attempting vaginal delivery after a previous lower segment Caesarean section, the uterine rupture rate was estimated at 0.3%, with 0.05% experiencing a perinatal death and 0.05% requiring a hysterectomy. What are the current figures relating to women having cs requiring hystorectomy?? Can anyone chat to me about this soon as i am writing a report on a document that will have HUGE impact on vbac acre here isn SA...and possibly not for the good! cheers Jo Bainbridge
