[PEN-L:9748] Re: FW: April 30 In U.S. College History
Very fine remember, Roger, and will read your entire text for my class which begins in one hour. There is no question that April 30 was a watershed. Paul * Paul Zarembka, supporting the RESEARCH IN POLITICAL ECONOMY Web site at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/PZarembka, and using OS/2 Warp. * On Wed, 30 Apr 1997, Bove, Roger E. wrote: -- Bulletin Board: Message Board Message Subject: April 30 In U.S. College History Posted By: MCKIERNAN, STEVE Message Number: 23-1 Let us never forget what April 30 means in the history of higher education. During these times when history is forgotten or seems to have little impact, if known, on today's youth, let us not forget that on April 30, 1970, President Nixon announced to the American public that the Cambodian invasion was in process. This announcement led to an increase in massive protest on college campuses which led directly to student deaths on May 4 at Kent State and several days later at Jackson State. We must never forget those six students who died on American soil. We must never forget what led to their deaths, and we must always remember that these deaths were the result of strong divisions in a society , divisions that are still strong today, but for different reasons. No, I am not lost in a time warp, but we often overlook important dates in higher education. Yes, it is nice to remember the good times, which is most times, but college students should know that what happened at Tiananmen Square in 1989 did indeed happen on American soil only nineteen years earlier. As an administrator, I always remember this date along with May 4 in my memories of life in higher education. All college students should know these six student names not because of the tragedy, but because of the lessens learned from this tragedy. In this era when civility and community is a goal within most university environments, let us make sure that people like Sandy Scheuer (one of the slain students at Kent State) are not our own students due to lack of communication or divisions within our midst. Remember, the divisions at that time were obvious. They are more subtle today, and, this is more dangerous. What happened at Kent State and Jackson State were the result of poor communication between administration/students/elected officials/public safety/police and the public at large. Though this event seems lost in time, it should be remembered by all universities for the lessons learned. The lesson learned is division can lead to violence where communication is lost. Maybe someday universities will pay tribute to the six students who died twenty-seven years ago in remembrance of their lost potential, lost hopes, lost dreams and lost opportunities to be positive change agents in society. In my own small way, I wanted to remember them on April 30 because what happened on this day led to their deaths in the days that followed. We must always remember how precious all student lives are, especially in linkage with this important date in the history of higher education, and, in fact, the history of this nation. Remember, these students may have been fathers and mothers. And, their children would be college students today. And with each student we have the potential to witness positive change agents for the betterment of the society and the world at large. I hope millions of boomers are remembering these six deaths in 1970, and that this tragedy has been shared with their sons and daughters, the college students of today.
[PEN-L:9764] Re: globalization question
Anthony asked me: What exactly do you mean by investment goods? Capital goods, like self-reproducing machinery? Or more "knowledge-intensive" goods, such as medical equipment? I don't have the most recent data but a beakdown of US exports by type of goods shows that US exports (a small % of GDP) embody more of the high-tech. Aircraft and software being two examples from the Pac NW. The demand for these products is very high and growing in Asia and I think US capital has found a way to beat the insufficient demand. No wonder the US economy looks rosy just as we hear of the all bad news from the labor front. As a reply, I am forwarding a post which appeared on both the marxism-international and marxism-science lists; it was written by Louis Godena: Re: Autonomy, dependency Third World technology: In 1974, Henry Nau argued that increased global interdependence made it possible for the West to employ their superior scientific and technical expertise to impose "a more subtle and total form of imperialism than was possible in any previous period of history." Later, as a senior staff member for international economic affairs on Reagan's National Security Council, he helped make this largely academic scheme a reality. Between 1982 and 1990, for example, the US surplus in RD-intensive goods rose from $40 billion to nearly $65 billion; during the same period its deficit in non-RD-intensive goods grew from $8 billion to nearly $45 billion. Fully 50% of the increase was due to sales of RD-intensive goods to the Third World - exports that rose from $25 billion to nearly $50 billion over that same period. Fees and royalties paid by other industrialized nations for the use of American know-how increased over 500% (!) from 1974 - 1990. Overall, the latest report from the American Association for the Advancement of Science concludes, more than 40% of an average multinational company's returns on RD comes from foreign sales (*Science and Exports: the West and the Third World* Washington, DC, 1996: AAAS Publications) . The significance of the transfers of knowledge that take place through such transactions, however, is much broader than their commercial value. Included in the broad category of "RD-intensive goods" is equipment that can be employed to produce new goods that can subsequently compete in the same markets as American-made goods. Such exports of course are of strategic importance; they embody the capacity to compete, in the modern world a source of political power. Those who own such technology are in a much stronger position than those who do not. Evidence of this is underlined by the contrasting degrees of enthusiasm displayed by multinationals in exporting new products and in exporting new production processes. A recent survey of twenty-five major companies bears this out. In cases where new technology was developed as a product, in 72% of cases it was transferred abroad through a foreign subsidiary, 24% by unaffiliated licensing, and only 4% by direct exports. In contrast, when the technology took the form of new production processes, foreign subsidiaries were used in only 17% of all cases, unaffiliated licensing was never used. In the remaining 83% of cases the innovation was transferred through the export of finished products; the process itself remained protected at home (Travis, Johns, and Stoudenmire, *Foreign Trade and US Research and Development* Baltimore, 1997: Johns Hopkins University Press for the National Science Foundation).
[PEN-L:9763] Rethinking Marxism conference
I just heard a description of the "Rethinking Marxism" conference that occurred in Amherst late last year. The reporter (Olga Celle de Bowman, a sociologist from Peru) said that there was a tremendous amount of (verbal) conflict between the audience and the speakers at the plenaries, something I hadn't heard about before. She said that the activists in the audience were objecting to the lack of answers to the key "what is to be done?" question and the lack of any kind of orientation toward people outside of academe. Was anyone on pen-l at the conference and has a different perspective on the conflict? in pen-l solidarity, Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Econ. Dept., Loyola Marymount Univ. 7900 Loyola Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90045-8410 USA 310/338-2948 (daytime, during workweek); FAX: 310/338-1950 "It takes a busload of faith to get by." -- Lou Reed.
[PEN-L:9762] IB Systems (was Globaloney)
I had a job doing something like this in high school. It was in a small but growing shop that made instruments for keeping vials at a certain temperature. I put together an integrated business system (based on a standard format) that calculated parts, labor time, and sale dates, tracked each work from scratch to UPS, calculated the labor bill, calculated inventory and reordering (with a program for doing adjustments after a manual check), kept track of backlogs, and even balanced the checkbooks. The sales person entered an order, it would appear on a list of orders; an assembler would be given a sheet that printed out automatically, including a bill of materials and expected labor time; he/she would check off that the machine was complete and give the machine and a form to the packager, the packager would ship it off and check off a box; I would put the form into the computer (once I'd finished programming the system) with about 10 keystrokes, and it would calculate everything from the profit rate to the purchase orders for parts suppliers to the UPS bill. What amazes me is this: The system that I put together probably cut the non-production workforce (people with the fairly mundane jobs of keeping track of inventory and filling out and keeping track of purchase orders and payments on bills) by a factor of three or four (no layoffs necessary since it was a growing company though I'm sure I would have been a hatchet boy in another situation). This seems the natural effect of any IB system. And yet it's the non-production workforce in manufacturing that's been growing and the production workforce that's been shrinking. Any thoughts? Is it that most businesses simply haven't implemented IB systems (I have this impression, or at least the impression that they're not as fully implemented as they could be)? Or is there a really exploding ratio of non-production work that's simply been tamed by the computer revolution? Curious, Tavis On Wed, 30 Apr 1997, D Shniad wrote: SAP it is, Louis. In promoting its worldwide application, I hope you qualified your argument a bit. (Please send me anything you have on it, BTW.) Sid Shniad This sounds like SAP, a client-server database application from a German company that ties together inventory, purchasing, general ledger, payroll, personnel, etc. My plan for socialism is to install SAP globally. That was a piece of the software that I posted a while back in my debate with Robin Hahnel. Louis Proyect On Tue, 29 Apr 1997, D Shniad wrote: I would like to see some support for this categorical statement that seems widely accepted here on Pen. I heard a management presentation from executives at BC Tel that described a $43 million system they're putting in place that will integrate all activity within the company on a single data base. This means that service reps will type in a customer's specs, which will generate ordering data for materials, schedule workers' time to do the related work, link up with accounting, etc.
[PEN-L:9760] U.N.Chief say the U.S. should reconsider Cuban emb (fwd)
UN chief says US should reconsider Cuba embargo 07:37 p.m Apr 29, 1997 Eastern UNITED NATIONS, April 29 (Reuter) - U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan on Tuesday said he hoped the United States would reconsider its 30-year-old embargo against Cuba soon. ``Let me say that the sanctions have been enforced for over 30 years and Cuba is still managing somehow,'' he said in response to a question. ``I would really hope the time will come in the not-too-distant future when that embargo will be reconsidered.'' Answering queries during a global forum organised by the CNN cable news network, Annan hesitated at first, apparently realising the controversy his answer might provoke. ``I thought you were a friend,'' he teased the questioner, adding: ``I know you didn't expect this answer but I think it is the way I feel.'' He said he thought Cuba's natural market was the United States and there were situations in which more positive change could be brought about by opening a door than by closing one. ``I think we've seen it in the former Soviet Union. We've seen it in the Russian Federation,'' he said. ``And in fact we need to look at all these examples and say 'What is the best approach in fostering change, in encouraging democratic practices and ensuring that people have the human rights that they need.''' Annan said the world needed to take a broad view of security and understand that when people have a meaningful economic and social life they are often able to influence their own governments. The U.N. General Assembly for the past five years has adopted a resolution by an overwhelming majority calling for the end of the U.S. economic embargo against Cuba. Only the United States, Israel and Uzbekistan voted against the resolution last November, while 25 other nations abstained.
[PEN-L:9761] tenure
what experience do people in places like the UK have with the absense of tenure for professors? is it as bad as some people in the US fear? is there a lot of violation of academic freedom? in pen-l solidarity, Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Econ. Dept., Loyola Marymount Univ. 7900 Loyola Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90045-8410 USA 310/338-2948 (daytime, during workweek); FAX: 310/338-1950 "It takes a busload of faith to get by." -- Lou Reed.
[PEN-L:9759] Re: Globaloney
SAP it is, Louis. In promoting its worldwide application, I hope you qualified your argument a bit. (Please send me anything you have on it, BTW.) Sid Shniad This sounds like SAP, a client-server database application from a German company that ties together inventory, purchasing, general ledger, payroll, personnel, etc. My plan for socialism is to install SAP globally. That was a piece of the software that I posted a while back in my debate with Robin Hahnel. Louis Proyect On Tue, 29 Apr 1997, D Shniad wrote: I would like to see some support for this categorical statement that seems widely accepted here on Pen. I heard a management presentation from executives at BC Tel that described a $43 million system they're putting in place that will integrate all activity within the company on a single data base. This means that service reps will type in a customer's specs, which will generate ordering data for materials, schedule workers' time to do the related work, link up with accounting, etc.
[PEN-L:9758] Re: Globaloney
The growth in the speculative power of finance capital, the magnitude of which dwarfs that of productive capital, has increased enormously over the past 20+ years and undermined the mechanisms that were put in place over the postwar period to prevent a recurrence of the disaster of the speculative '20s followed by the deflationary '30s. For an excellent article on this, see "In Defence of Capital Controls," by James Crotty and Gerald Epstein in the 1996 issue of the Socialist Register. I have no methodology to suggest for such a comparison, but I would love to see a comparison between the relative magnitude of speculative activity in the 1920s compared to its magnitude today. Sid Shniad D Shniad wrote: You're right, Doug. This task was left to the finance capitalist, whose ability to engage in manic speculation has been greatly aided by the Pentium. Just how has the speculation of the finance capitalist dethroned the industrial capitalist? How is it different now from, say, 1929, when the collapse of a speculative structure ushered in a massive debt deflation and a decade of depression? Doug -- Doug Henwood Left Business Observer 250 W 85 St New York NY 10024-3217 USA +1-212-874-4020 voice +1-212-874-3137 fax email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://www.panix.com/~dhenwood/LBO_home.html
[PEN-L:9757] Letter to Nike: Circulate/Sign
From: Mike Rhodes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: New Nike sign-on letter Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Labor Alerts/Labor News a service of Campaign for Labor Rights Global Exchange has drafted the following sign-on letter to Nike CEO Philip Knight. They are asking for both individuals and groups to sign on. They are especially interested in getting signatures from groups and prominent individuals in the religious, human rights, women, investor, social justice, academic and sports communities. Please print, sign and return the letter to: Global Exchange 2017 Mission Street, #303 San Francisco, CA 94110 Questions? Contact Global Exchange: 415-255-7296 or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nike campaign resources: Campaign for Labor Rights has a frequently updated Nike action packet available in hard copy ($3 to $5 donation requested) and free via email. To receive a copy, contact us at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or (541) 344-5410. The resources section of the action packet has two pages of listings, including the Nike Campaign Document Library: articles about Nike which we can forward to you via email. May, 1997 Philip Knight CEO, Nike Corporation One Bowerman Drive Beaverton, OR 97005 Dear Mr. Knight, We, the undersigned, are deeply concerned about ongoing problems in factories in Indonesia and Vietnam that produce Nike shoes. These problems include inadequate pay, forced overtime, and abusive treatment of workers. The massive recent strikes involving 10,000 workers in Indonesia and 1,300 in Vietnam give new urgency to the need to find a solution. We understand that Nike has taken some actions to address these problems, including creating a Labor Relations Department, hiring the accounting firm Ernst and Young to monitor the factories, hiring former Ambassador Andrew Young to review implementation of Nike's Code of Conduct, joining Business for Social Responsibility and participating in the Presidential task force on sweatshops. However, none of these moves has been adequate to address the root of the problem, which is that Nike is not paying its overseas workers a living wage. The wage in Vietnam of $1.60 a day is not enough for three decent meals a day, let alone housing, transportation, clothing and health care. In Indonesia, the government itself says that the minimum wage, which is now $2.50 a day in Jakarta, covers only 90 percent of the basic subsistence needs of one person. Nike, with its tremendous financial resources, should and must do better. We call on Nike to take two steps: 1. Pay workers enough for them to live decent, dignified lives. In Vietnam that means at least $3 a day, and in Indonesia at least $4 a day. 2. Institute independent monitoring by respected groups that can communicate well with both the company and the workers. For Indonesia, we urge you to immediately hire the Indonesian Sports Shoe Monitoring Network, and for Vietnam, Vietnam Labor Watch. We urge you to take these actions quickly to avoid further trauma to the workers who make your products and further erosion of Nike's good name. If you pay your workers a living wage, and use these respected groups as monitors, we are certain that the company and the workers will all benefit, and that consumers will start feeling better again about buying your products. Sincerely, _ name signed _ name printed _ organization (if applicable) _ street address _ city state/province zip/postal code
[PEN-L:9756] Barbara Ehrenreich on War
I guess I have gotten used to how bad the Nation magazine has become, but every once in a while I run into something so rancid that I have to pause and catch my breath. This was the case with a review by DSA leader Barbara Ehrenreich of 3 books on war. This review was accompanied by a review by Susan Faludi of Ehrenreichs new book on war titled "Blood Rites". All this prose is dedicated to the proposition that large-scale killing has been around as long as homo sapiens has been around and that it has nothing much to do with economic motives. Looking for an explanation why George Bush made war on Iraq? It wasnt over oil, "democratic socialist" Ehrenreich would argue. It was instead related to the fact that we were once "preyed upon by animals that were initially far more skillful hunters than ourselves. In particular, the sacralization of war is not the project of a self-confident predator...but that of a creature which has learned only recently, in the last thousand or so generations, not to cower at every sound in the night." In a rather silly exercise in cultural criticism, Ehrenreich speculates that the popularity of those nature shows depicting one animal attacking and eating another are proof of the predatory disposition we brutish human beings share. I myself have a different interpretation for what its worth. I believe that PBS sponsors all this stuff because of the rampant oil company sponsorship that transmits coded Social Darwinist ideology. Just as the Leopard is meant to eat the antelope, so is Shell Oil meant to kill Nigerians who stand in the way of progress. One of the books that Ehrenreich reviews is "War Before Civilization: The Myth of the Peaceful Savage" by Lawrence Keeley. Keeley argues that material scarcity does not explain warfare among Stone Age people. It is instead something in our "shared psychology" that attracts us to war. Keeley finds brutish behavior everywhere and at all times, including among the American Indian. If the number of casualties produced by wars among the Plains Indians was proportional to the population of European nations during the World Wars, then the casualty rates would have been more like 2 billion rather than the tens of millions that obtained. Ehrenreich swoons over Keeleys book that was published in 1996 to what seems like "insufficient acclaim". I suspect that Keeleys book functions ideologically like some of the recent scholarship that attempts to show that Incas, Aztecs and Spaniards were all equally bad. They all had kingdoms. They all had slaves. They all despoiled the environment. Ad nauseum. It is always a specious practice to project into precapitalist societies the sort of dynamic that occurs under capitalism. For one thing, it is almost impossible to understand these societies without violating some sort of Heisenberg law of anthropology. The historiography of the North American and Latin American Indian societies is mediated by the interaction of the invading society with the invaded. The "view" is rarely impartial. Capitalism began to influence and overturn precapitalist class relations hundreds of years ago, so a laboratory presentation of what Aztec society looked like prior to the Conquistadores is impossible. Furthermore, it is regrettable that Ehrenreich herself is seduced by this methodology since she doesnt even question Keeleys claims about the Plains Indian wars. When did these wars occur? Obviously long after the railroads and buffalo hunters had become a fact of North American life. The reason all this stuff seems so poisonous is that it makes a political statement that war can not be eliminated through the introduction of socialism or political action. For Ehrenreich, opposing war is a psychological project rather than a political project: "Any anti-war movement that targets only the human agents of war -- a warrior elite or, on our own time, the chieftains of the military-industrial complex risks mimicking those it seeks to overcome ... So it is a giant step from hating the warriors to hating the war, and an even greater step to deciding that the enemy is the abstract institution of war, which maintains its grip on us even in the interludes we know as peace." Really? The abstract institution of war maintains its grip on "us"? Who exactly is this "us"? Is it the average working person who struggles to make ends meet? Do they sit at home at night like great cats fantasizing about biting the throats out of Rwandans or Zaireans in order to feast on their innards? The NY Times has been reporting more and more concern among Clinton administration officials about Kabilas drive toward the overthrow of Mobutu, our erstwhile puppet. It is not out of the question that Clinton and his European allies would put together an expeditionary force to protect "democracy" in Africa. Who would be responsible for this war? The ruling class or the poor foot soldiers who get drummed into action? Louis Proyect
[PEN-L:9755] re: Environmental Economics
I wanted to add some thoughts on the legal issues involved to this discussion on externalities and how they are or are not taken into consideration. In order to bring a case, one must have "standing." Standing is a constitutional requirement, and it is also a difficult status to define. One has standing as a plaintiff if one has suffered an injury. The problem is that often that injury must be specific to the plaintiff. As a result, an injury that is widely suffered may mean that no one has standing. One famous Supreme Court decision stated: It is not enough to enjoy seeing the birds fly. Furthermore, one must be a person (or a corporation or association, which are treated as persons). Thus, trees, animals, and the earth itself, no matter how injured, do not have standing. One of my law school professors talked about this in terms of whether the law can see an injury. The way the law sees injury and the way we may think of harm and injury are not the same things. If the law sees no injury, then there is no legally cognizable claim. The constitution requires that there be a case or controversy as opposed to the desire for a decision as to a theoretical issue. If the law doesn't "see" the injury, it is merely theoretical, and the plaintiff is out of court. ellen Ellen J. Dannin California Western School of Law 225 Cedar Street San Diego, CA 92101 Phone: 619-525-1449 Fax:619-696-
[PEN-L:9754] Ellen (forwarded message)
I received the following phone number and made a quick call to let Chrysler know that I think they SHOULD have retained their sponsorship of the April 30 "Ellen" episode. Simple -- you just push a couple of buttons (1 for their Media/PR line; 2 for their "Ellen" line, and then 2 (but double check me here) to disagree with their decision to pull sponsorship. You don't have to talk to a human, you just basically vote with your phone. It's EASY and FAST and FREE. So let's do our part cuz the Fundies are calling in too! Thanks! Here's the number: 1 (800) 992-1997 Blair Sandler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PEN-L:9753] Re: ALERT! Hse. Committee to Vote on Internet Priva
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 08:18:54 -0700 (PDT) Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: "Harry M. Cleaver" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To:Multiple recipients of list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L:9745] ALERT! Hse. Committee to Vote on Internet Privacy Bill Soon (fwd) -- Forwarded message -- Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:39:26 -0400 From: Bob Palacios [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ALERT! Hse. Committee to Vote on Internet Privacy Bill Soon Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:37:55 -0400 Resent-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == ___ _ _ _ _ / _ \| | | | _ \_ _| | THE HOUSE PREPARES TO ENSURE ENCRYPTION | |_| | | | _| | |_) || | | |AND PRIVACY ON THE INTERNET; SAFE | _ | |___| |___| _ | | |_| BILL (HR 695) ABOUT TO BE VOTED ON! |_| |_|_|_|_| \_\|_| (_) April 28, 1997 Do not forward this alert after June 1, 1997. This alert brought to you by: Americans for Tax ReformCenter for Democracy and Technology Eagle Forum EF-Florida Electronic Frontier Foundation Electronic Privacy Information Ctr. Voters Telecommunications Watch Wired Magazine _ . . . In the interests of establishing guilt by association, can you tell me why the Eagle Forum and Americans for Tax Reform, both G.O.P. fronts for illegal campaign finance among other things, support this bill? And please don't tell me it's to safeguard freedom. Curious, MBS === Max B. SawickyEconomic Policy Institute [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1660 L Street, NW 202-775-8810 (voice) Ste. 1200 202-775-0819 (fax)Washington, DC 20036 Opinions above do not necessarily reflect the views of anyone associated with the Economic Policy Institute. ===
[PEN-L:9752] re: Environmental Economics
Robin is right: mainstream economics is environmentalist in theory, but not in practice. It also assumes that the possibility of "external costs" is simply given technologically (which profit-maximizing capitalists then realize in practice); this ignores E.K. Hunt's theory, in which capitalists actively seek out the creation of new technologies favoring the externalization of costs. (This fits with the standard economist's obsession with statics and ignorance of dynamics.) Further, economists often succumb to the popular confusion of the minimization of private costs with "efficiency," even though it contradicts their own most sophisticated theory. On top of that, they propose "market-based" anti-pollution plans which seem dubious to me (though it should be noted that I'm no environmental economist). The whole idea of market-based solutions of this sort seems to assume that new pollution problems won't be created every day by the dynamics of capitalism. There are also the economists who suggest that the pollution problems of places like Mexico can be solved later, _after_ those countries have achieved development (usually development of the free-market kind). One of these types spoke at an URPE plenary at the ASSA meetings awhile back. He seemed to think of environmental cleanliness was a luxury good that only rich countries like the US could buy. There seemed to be no consciousness that environmental destruction might actually prevent economic development. (Peter Dorman would know more about what this fellow said: he organized the session.) Most fundamentally, they lack a global perspective on pollution: the depredations of the rest of nature by humanity are represented theoretically as merely a collection of externalities that are treated as the exception rather than the rule. (People like Hayek and Milton Friedman thus minimize externalities as mere "neighborhood effects." Most textbooks I've seen follow this line, though not necessarily the terminology.) Rather than stating the issue in terms of long-term harmony or conflict between humanity and the rest of nature, the emphasis is on pollution hurting other people, a problem internal to humanity. (Thus, many followers of Coase see the problem of externalities as basically solvable through negotiations, though it seems impossible for either Mother Nature or future generations of humans to participate in such negotiations.) in pen-l solidarity, Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Econ. Dept., Loyola Marymount Univ. 7900 Loyola Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90045-8410 USA 310/338-2948 (daytime, during workweek); FAX: 310/338-1950 "Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti." (Go your own way and let people talk.) -- K. Marx, paraphrasing Dante A.
[PEN-L:9750] Re: M-I: Re the Rust belt
Unemployment rates do not tell the story about deindustrialization. I'm using an extraction from the CPS data set that shows that as much as a quarter of the increase in wage variance at the state level in the 1980s can be explained by deindustrialization. Preliminary evidence from the NLSY suggests that this increased variance is largely caused by increasingly divergent permanent wage paths (i.e., wage-experience profiles). There is also research (I think by Ann Huff Stevens) showing that workers who involuntarily lose their jobs from plant closings take something like a ten percent permanent wage cut. I imagine deindustrialized cities would be great places for a service sector boom, because you have all these skilled people willing to work for much lower wages. Pittsburgh may look rosy, but have any of y'all spent time in Detroit lately? Cheers, Tavis On Wed, 30 Apr 1997, Louis Proyect wrote: Gary McLennan: A leading right wing economist Terry McCrann has argued that the layoffs were necessary and that anyway, like in USA, the sacked workers would get jobs in the service industries. He claims that unemployment in the former American steel towns is now 3-4%. He writes "The old industrial jobs that were destroyed have been replaced with better, more sustainable and more meaningful jobs in service industries. This was possible only because of the enormous flexibility of the American economy" Is he correct in this? What has happened over the American rust belt? A comment on this plus data would be greatly appreciated. Louis P.: This seems like a question that Doug can supply the most meaningful answer to, but I will say something based on impressions from the mass media. A city like Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania is offered up as an example of one that has made the transition from the rust belt--it was a major producer of steel--to service industries. There is no question that Pittsburgh has seen a steady increase in jobs in the financial services, etc. The problem is that a 35 year old steelworker with 15 years experience in a foundry is not likely to get a job programming financial applications, nor a job answering area code 800 phone calls to tell people their current balance. Those jobs will go to recent high-school graduates. I suspect that the tens of thousands of steelworkers who lost their jobs in the 70s and 80s are working at Walmart, Sears, etc. for $8 to $10 an hour. If Doug can't come up with some statistics on this, I might take a trip over to the library and do some digging myself since the question has a bearing on American politics as well as Australian politics. This has to do with Clinton's claim that the American economy is healthy. While the stock-market is booming, I sense that there is much misery in the "rust belt" no matter the unemployment rate.
[PEN-L:9751] Re: Globalization
There is a one-volume anthology of writing on globalization that is not bad, published last year by Sierra Books. Jerry Mander is a co-editor. It includes a decent bibliography. Also Mander co-edited a special issue of The Nation last summer on this. Unfortunately, both the book and the magazine would be rather one-sided, doesn't include or really acknowledge the points pushed by Doug and others. Thad At 02:48 PM 4/29/97 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pen-lers, I have had some enquiries by a member of the general public about a number of issues relating to corporations, the environment and globalization. Specifically, he asked "if you knew of a single useful source of information on the negative effects of globalization (a scientific paper or even a thorough magazine article would be fine.)" I promised to post his request on the list and ask for a suggested reading list that would be accessible to the intelligent lay person. Suggestions? Paul Phillips, Economics, University of Manitoba. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thad Williamson National Center for Economic and Security Alternatives (Washington)/ Union Theological Seminary (New York) 212-531-1935 http://www.northcarolina.com/thad
[PEN-L:9749] re: civil society
In his book WHEN CORPORATIONS RULE THE WORLD, (Kumarian Press 1995) David Korten has a whole chapter entitled "An Awakened Civil Society". Korten seems to see civil society as "the people" opposed to "corporate colonialism". Civil society or the people give power to instititutions such as corporations and the state only as duly constituted by and accountable to the sovereign people, as operating according to an appropriate code of morals and ethics, and producing desirable consequences for the whole. (p. 294) Desmond Tutu claims that this book is a must read " not by a wild-eyed idealistic left-winger, but by a sober scion of the establishment with impeccable credentials." I don't know he seems like a wild-eyed idealist to me, and sometimes I doubt his sobriety as well. He is drunk on a Lawrence Welk bubbly environmentalism that for the most part ignores class conflict, gender and race. He seems to embrace an idealistic spiritualism lacking in clarity but no doubt appealing to many. I just wonder too how solid his research is. He seems to contradict himself at times as well. For example, he slams modern corporate culture for producing standard products all the same--ignoring the fact that this mass production has put many useful products within the reach of the average consumer. In a later chapter he suggests the state should mandate standard soft drink (and beer) bottles that would be re-usable etc. Of course much of what Korten has to say is important and well-worth emphasizing: the fact that the emphasis on growth threatens the environment and the livelihood of future generations, that it does not result in the elimination of poverty nor just income distribution, that corporate dominance threatens democratic control of social institutions, etc. etc. but the book's positive thrust seems to me idealistic, even dangerous, playing on the heartstrings of the small is beautiful, local control, sustainable development, aint community great, groups but avoiding many touchy issues. I am sure many Bosnian ethnic cleansers are high on community and local control. Where does race, gender, class, come into all this new global consciousness and networking? Cheers, Ken Hanly
[PEN-L:9747] FW: April 30 In U.S. College History
-- Bulletin Board: Message Board Message Subject: April 30 In U.S. College History Posted By: MCKIERNAN, STEVE Message Number: 23-1 Let us never forget what April 30 means in the history of higher education. During these times when history is forgotten or seems to have little impact, if known, on today's youth, let us not forget that on April 30, 1970, President Nixon announced to the American public that the Cambodian invasion was in process. This announcement led to an increase in massive protest on college campuses which led directly to student deaths on May 4 at Kent State and several days later at Jackson State. We must never forget those six students who died on American soil. We must never forget what led to their deaths, and we must always remember that these deaths were the result of strong divisions in a society , divisions that are still strong today, but for different reasons. No, I am not lost in a time warp, but we often overlook important dates in higher education. Yes, it is nice to remember the good times, which is most times, but college students should know that what happened at Tiananmen Square in 1989 did indeed happen on American soil only nineteen years earlier. As an administrator, I always remember this date along with May 4 in my memories of life in higher education. All college students should know these six student names not because of the tragedy, but because of the lessens learned from this tragedy. In this era when civility and community is a goal within most university environments, let us make sure that people like Sandy Scheuer (one of the slain students at Kent State) are not our own students due to lack of communication or divisions within our midst. Remember, the divisions at that time were obvious. They are more subtle today, and, this is more dangerous. What happened at Kent State and Jackson State were the result of poor communication between administration/students/elected officials/public safety/police and the public at large. Though this event seems lost in time, it should be remembered by all universities for the lessons learned. The lesson learned is division can lead to violence where communication is lost. Maybe someday universities will pay tribute to the six students who died twenty-seven years ago in remembrance of their lost potential, lost hopes, lost dreams and lost opportunities to be positive change agents in society. In my own small way, I wanted to remember them on April 30 because what happened on this day led to their deaths in the days that followed. We must always remember how precious all student lives are, especially in linkage with this important date in the history of higher education, and, in fact, the history of this nation. Remember, these students may have been fathers and mothers. And, their children would be college students today. And with each student we have the potential to witness positive change agents for the betterment of the society and the world at large. I hope millions of boomers are remembering these six deaths in 1970, and that this tragedy has been shared with their sons and daughters, the college students of today.
[PEN-L:9745] ALERT! Hse. Committee to Vote on Internet Privacy Bill Soon (fwd)
-- Forwarded message -- Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:39:26 -0400 From: Bob Palacios [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ALERT! Hse. Committee to Vote on Internet Privacy Bill Soon Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:37:55 -0400 Resent-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == ___ _ _ _ _ / _ \| | | | _ \_ _| | THE HOUSE PREPARES TO ENSURE ENCRYPTION | |_| | | | _| | |_) || | | |AND PRIVACY ON THE INTERNET; SAFE | _ | |___| |___| _ | | |_| BILL (HR 695) ABOUT TO BE VOTED ON! |_| |_|_|_|_| \_\|_| (_) April 28, 1997 Do not forward this alert after June 1, 1997. This alert brought to you by: Americans for Tax ReformCenter for Democracy and Technology Eagle Forum EF-Florida Electronic Frontier Foundation Electronic Privacy Information Ctr. Voters Telecommunications Watch Wired Magazine _ Table of Contents What's Happening Right Now What You Can Do To Help Privacy And Security On The Internet Background On SAFE (HR 695) Why Is This Issue Important To Internet Users? About This Alert / Participating Organizations _ WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE TO VOTE ON "SAFE" PRO-INTERNET PRIVACY BILL The House Judiciary Committee is set to vote on a bill designed to protect privacy and promote electronic commerce on the Internet as early as the second week of May. The SAFE bill will also be considered by a Judiciary subcommittee this week and is expected to pass without difficulty. The House Judiciary committee vote on HR695 will mark a critical stage in the effort to pass real reform of US encryption policy in a way that protects privacy, promotes electronic commerce, and recognizes the realities of the global Internet. Although no bill is perfect, Internet advocates including CDT, EFF, EPIC, VTW and others, including the Internet Privacy Coalition, have expressed support for the bill. Supporters agree that the SAFE bill holds great promise for enhancing privacy and security on the Internet and have offered their strong support and suggestions to improve it in a detailed letter at http://www.privacy.org/ipc/safe_letter.html Please take a moment to read the attached alert, and make a phone call to urge the committee to pass the bill. ___ WHAT YOU CAN DO TO HELP PRIVACY AND SECURITY ON THE INTERNET 1. Check out the information on the SAFE bill below. 2. Call the Representative on the Judiciary committee from your state. Note that there may be more than one person from your state on the committee. The list is enclosed below the telephone script. SAMPLE SCRIPT You: dial Capitol switchboard +1.202.224.3121 May I speak to the office of Rep. (INSERT NAME FROM LIST BELOW) Them: Hello, Rep. Mojo's office! You: May I speak with the staffer who deals with Internet or telecom issues? Them: One minute.. SAYYou: Hello! HR695 will be voted on by the Judiciary committee in a THIS- couple of weeks. I'm calling to urge Rep. Mojo to pass the bill because it's important to security and privacy on the Internet. Them: Thanks, goodbye! You: Goodbye! click If you have concerns about specific improvements to the bill, bringing them up when you're on the phone with the staffer is a good opportunity for raising issues. Judiciary Committee Members (from committee Web page) MR. HYDE (ILLINOIS), CHAIRMAN Mr. Sensenbrenner (Wisconsin)Mr. Conyers (Michigan) Mr. McCollum (Florida) Mr. Frank (Massachusetts) Mr. Gekas (Pennsylvania) Mr. Schumer (New York) Mr. Coble (North Carolina) Mr. Berman (California) Mr. Smith (Texas)Mr. Boucher (Virginia) Mr. Schiff (New Mexico) Mr. Nadler (New York) Mr. Gallegly (California)Mr. Scott (Virginia) Mr. Canady (Florida) Mr. Watt (North Carolina) Mr. Inglis (South Carolina) Ms. Lofgren (California) Mr. Goodlatte (Virginia) Ms. Jackson Lee (Texas) Mr. Buyer (Indiana) Ms. Waters (California) Mr. Bono (California)Mr. Meehan (Massachusetts) Mr. Bryant (Tennessee) Mr. Delahunt (Massachusetts) Mr. Chabot (Ohio)Mr. Wexler (Florida) Mr. Barr
[PEN-L:9746] Re: M-I: Re the Rust belt
Louis Proyect wrote: This seems like a question that Doug can supply the most meaningful answer to, but I will say something based on impressions from the mass media. A city like Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania is offered up as an example of one that has made the transition from the rust belt--it was a major producer of steel--to service industries. There is no question that Pittsburgh has seen a steady increase in jobs in the financial services, etc. The problem is that a 35 year old steelworker with 15 years experience in a foundry is not likely to get a job programming financial applications, nor a job answering area code 800 phone calls to tell people their current balance. Those jobs will go to recent high-school graduates. I suspect that the tens of thousands of steelworkers who lost their jobs in the 70s and 80s are working at Walmart, Sears, etc. for $8 to $10 an hour. If Doug can't come up with some statistics on this, I might take a trip over to the library and do some digging myself since the question has a bearing on American politics as well as Australian politics. This has to do with Clinton's claim that the American economy is healthy. While the stock-market is booming, I sense that there is much misery in the "rust belt" no matter the unemployment rate. Unemployment in the U.S. Midwest is indeed very low by recent historical standards; as a region its jobless rate is among the lowest, if not the lowest, in the country. There are several reasons for this - one, out-migration; two, absorption of the displaced manufacturing workers by service industries; three, a manufacturing recovery. Most displaced workers do find employment, though typically at worse-paying, less-secure service jobs. Lou, if you want to look into this, the Bureau of Labor Statistics has an extensive program that follows displaced workers; they report periodically on it in the Monthly Labor Review. Doug -- Doug Henwood Left Business Observer 250 W 85 St New York NY 10024-3217 USA +1-212-874-4020 voice +1-212-874-3137 fax email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://www.panix.com/~dhenwood/LBO_home.html
[PEN-L:9744] U.S. Plans Referendum In Puerto Rico
On Saturday, April 19, a group of U.S. congressmen convened a public hearing at the San Juan Fine Arts Theater on the national fate of Puerto Rico. At issue is a bill filed by Representative Don Young, an Alaskan Republican, calling for a 1998 referendum which will pose the options of "statehood" "commonwealth status" or independence to the people of Puerto Rico. Under its current commonwealth status Puerto Rico's 3.7 million residents are U.S. citizens, but do not pay federal taxes and cannot vote in general presidential elections. The island is described as "belonging to" but "not part of" the United States. The Spanish-speaking island was colonized by Spain in the 15th century and ceded to the United States in 1898 after the Spanish-American War. The island has been turned into a military base for the Americans and it has suffered the most brutal devastation on all fronts. The U.S. economic, political, cultural and military domination of Puerto Rico has turned the issue of the island's national status into what the U.S. official circles and their agents in Puerto Rico call a "contentious issue." This is to say that there are various forces within Puerto Rico who want to preserve Puerto Rico's neo-colonial status because they benefit from it. "I eagerly await the plebiscite that is sanctioned by this legislation," Democratic Representative Patrick Kennedy of Rhode Island told the meeting. "If we want to talk about equality for all Puerto Ricans, we should give them a voice." All but those who favor U.S. statehood say the bill is slanted to favor Puerto Rico being turned into the 51st American state. They say the it does not truthfully represent the realities of statehood for Puerto Rico. Amongst other things, it would result in the loss of Spanish as its official language. The defenders of national self-determination in Puerto Rico, whether they support commonwealth status or independence or even statehood, argue that a referendum on the nation's fate must be held within conditions of complete neutrality. Several referendums have already been held, each in conditions of outright persecution, intimidation, harassment and arrests of sovereigntists. Conditions of neutrality would require, amongst other things, the release of Puerto Rican political prisoners detained in U.S. prisons for the "crime" of fighting for the island's independence. Shawgi Tell University at Buffalo Graduate School of Education [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PEN-L:9743] Record Increase In Foreign Corporate Control (Canada)
The foreign ownership of operating revenue in Canada rose by 1.3 percentage points to 29.8 percent in 1995. This is the second highest one-year increase since the Corporation and Labor Unions Returns Act started being issued. Statistics Canada says the increase was caused by "a strong revenue growth in the foreign-controlled sector, weakness in the domestically controlled sector and foreign takeovers." The report shows that revenue growth for foreign controlled firms was three times that of Canadian-controlled firms. The growth in small and medium Canadian firms' revenues remained weak, being attributed to the fact that the vast majority of Canadian companies operate predominantly in the Canadian market. The much touted economic recovery, with its feature of joblessness, does not include these companies which do not operate in the global economy. The statistics show that export-related industries accounted for the strong increase in foreign revenues. In 1995, the wood and paper industry spearheaded the rise in foreign control while in the early 1990s, the upward movement of foreign revenue share was attributed to the increasing dominance of foreign-controlled firms in the transportation equipment, electronics and chemical sectors. Shawgi Tell University at Buffalo Graduate School of Education [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PEN-L:9742] Re: M-I: Re the Rust belt
Gary McLennan: A leading right wing economist Terry McCrann has argued that the layoffs were necessary and that anyway, like in USA, the sacked workers would get jobs in the service industries. He claims that unemployment in the former American steel towns is now 3-4%. He writes "The old industrial jobs that were destroyed have been replaced with better, more sustainable and more meaningful jobs in service industries. This was possible only because of the enormous flexibility of the American economy" Is he correct in this? What has happened over the American rust belt? A comment on this plus data would be greatly appreciated. The right winger is, to a large extent, right. During the sixties, when unemployment was low workers often intentionally screwed up, as an act of rebellion. Capitalism is brutal. It needs depressions and unemployment to become efficient. The idea that the new jobs are meaningful is ridiculous. I recall going back home in the mid 70s and early 80s. Many older steel workers were long term unemployed. The most common pattern that I saw was that their wives took menial jobs to support them, although a few did go back to school to retrain. Michael Perelman Tel. 916-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PEN-L:9741] Re: Environmental Economics?
Mike Albert has a nice piece in the current issue of Magazine that criticizes the Mother Jones piece. The mainstream line on externalities has long been: "Serious economists have always known that external effects produce inefficiencies -- and have never claimed otherwise." But then, the infuriating thing is that mainstream economists who offer policy advice implicitly assume these external effects are minimal in both quantity and pervasiveness by ignoring them in their actual policy prescriptions. AND the self-styled "serious" mainstream theoreticians are totally silent voicing no criticisms of the presumed misuse of their theoretical models. See E,K. Hunt and Ralph D'Arge on this subject in the 1970s. They coined the phrase "invisible foot" and talked of externalities as the "Achilles Heel" of Neoclassical economics. Michael Albert and I follow their lead on this subject in "Quiet Revolution in Welfare Economics" (Princeton, 1990). Michael Jacobs uses the phrase "invisble elbow" in his excellent book "Green Economics" (Pluto, 1992).
[PEN-L:9740] RE: Barbara Ehrenreich and DSA?
Yes, Barbara is one of the half dozen or so national co-chairs of DSA. I guess I'll have to read the reviews. Are they posted on the net somewhere? (I realize that I should subscribe to the Nation but not yet.) Dave Richardson -- From: Louis Proyect[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 1997 3:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject:[PEN-L:9717] Barbara Ehrenreich and DSA? In the latest Nation magazine Barbara Ehrenreich reviews 3 books on the subject of war while Susan Faludi reviews Ehrenreich's new book on the very same subject called "Blood Rites". I found all of it completely hostile to traditional socialist thinking on the subject. Is Ehrenreich still with DSA? I want to respond to this stuff on the net but don't want to smear DSA's pretty good name. Louis Proyect
[PEN-L:9739] FW: BLS Daily Report
BLS DAILY REPORT, TUESDAY, APRIL 29, 1997 RELEASED TODAY: The Employment Cost Index for March 1997 was 132.0, an increase of 2.9 percent from March 1996. The ECI measures changes in compensation costs, which include wages, salaries, and employer costs for employee benefits. On a seasonally adjusted basis, compensation costs for civilian workers increased 0.6 percent during the December 1996-March 1997 period. Three-month increases in compensation costs have ranged from 0.6 to 0.9 percent for the last four years Boosted by gains in farm income, five Plains states registered the largest increases in per capita personal income in 1996, reports the Commerce Department's Bureau of Economic Analysis. These five states -- North Dakota, South Dakota, Iowa, Nebraska, and Minnesota -- saw large gains in farm income due mainly to high corn production. Nationally, BEA says that per capita personal income grew by 4.5 percent -- from $23,196 in 1995 to $24,231 in 1996. This 4.5 percent gain was slightly more than twice the 2.2 percent rise in prices paid by consumers, as measured by the price index for personal consumption expenditures (Daily Labor Report, page D-1). __Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott (R-Miss.) ruled out a proposal to reduce the Social Security cost-of-living adjustment as part of a balanced budget deal with the White House, charging that President Clinton had failed to provide sufficient public support for the controversial approach Despite Lott's comments and Democratic sniping, negotiators on both sides said a deal remains in reach. Even without the legislative changes to the COLA originally advocated by Lott, the government would pick up additional revenue from a COLA reduction if, as expected, BLS economists proceed with their effort to correct their inflation formula on technical grounds. Experts predict a technical correction by the BLS could result in a downward revision in COLAs of as much as four-tenths of a percentage point -- the same reduction Republicans were advocating through legislation (Washington Post, page A4). __Lott all but ruled out reducing cost-of-living adjustments for Social Security recipients to help balance the budget. His remarks complicated prospects for a bipartisan deal to eliminate the federal deficit even as the two sides prepared for a big push to reach agreement this week. Mr. Lott said President Clinton had waited too long to signal a willingness to take the political heat that changing the cost-of-living formula would generate (New York Times, page A16). __Lott, frustrated that President Clinton won't publicly embrace a reduction of the government's inflation index, said the issue is dead for the current budget balancing talks It's unclear, however, whether Sen. Lott's declaration will turn out to be real, or simply the latest effort to pressure Mr. Clinton on the issue "I'll be candid, I think we've lost it," said Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-NY) who has been an outspoken advocate of adopting the full 1.1 percentage point correction in the CPI (Wall Street Journal, page A24). DUE OUT TOMORROW: State and Metropolitan Area Employment and Unemployment: March 1997
[PEN-L:9738] Re: M-I: Re the Rust belt
Gary McLennan: A leading right wing economist Terry McCrann has argued that the layoffs were necessary and that anyway, like in USA, the sacked workers would get jobs in the service industries. He claims that unemployment in the former American steel towns is now 3-4%. He writes "The old industrial jobs that were destroyed have been replaced with better, more sustainable and more meaningful jobs in service industries. This was possible only because of the enormous flexibility of the American economy" Is he correct in this? What has happened over the American rust belt? A comment on this plus data would be greatly appreciated. Louis P.: This seems like a question that Doug can supply the most meaningful answer to, but I will say something based on impressions from the mass media. A city like Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania is offered up as an example of one that has made the transition from the rust belt--it was a major producer of steel--to service industries. There is no question that Pittsburgh has seen a steady increase in jobs in the financial services, etc. The problem is that a 35 year old steelworker with 15 years experience in a foundry is not likely to get a job programming financial applications, nor a job answering area code 800 phone calls to tell people their current balance. Those jobs will go to recent high-school graduates. I suspect that the tens of thousands of steelworkers who lost their jobs in the 70s and 80s are working at Walmart, Sears, etc. for $8 to $10 an hour. If Doug can't come up with some statistics on this, I might take a trip over to the library and do some digging myself since the question has a bearing on American politics as well as Australian politics. This has to do with Clinton's claim that the American economy is healthy. While the stock-market is booming, I sense that there is much misery in the "rust belt" no matter the unemployment rate.
[PEN-L:9737] Re: bonded labor
Doug, if you're interested, I could provide you with some cites for 19 century background material. maggie coleman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PEN-L:9736] Re: Walras vs. Sraffa
At 04:35 PM 4/22/97 -0700, Gil wrote: Coincidentally, Ajit's post evoked a childhood memory of my own. My parents took me to see a debate in which one participant made an argument for which his opponent apparently had no effective response. Rather than expose this fact by attempting to answer the argument directly, that opponent told some elaborate story involving circuses, elephants on hind legs, tigers jumping through hoops, and the like, seemingly intended (but not realized) as a metaphor about the first debater's argument. This stratagem failed miserably. Your parents took you to see a debate? Some parents, I must say! My parents told me that if you detect a participant losing his sense of humar in a debate, you know he/she is too much on his/her backfoot. _ Gil: I suppose the relevance of one or the other of our childhood memories will presently become clear. Until then, I'll just note that Ajit ignores most of my direct responses to his original claims (e.g., concerning the significance of reswitching phenomena to the critique of the Walrasian model), and so far as I can see his new points just offer additional illustrations of my original position--that the differences he asserts between the Walrasian and Sraffian systems are more apparent than real, having much more to do with the different political economic concerns of their respective exponents than with any necessary difference in the analytical systems themselves. Also, as a preview of what's to come, I'll reiterate my observation that mere omission shouldn't count as a point in favor of a theory. If it did, then the claim that "stuff happens" is the most powerful political economic model going. _ Ajit: The reason I ignored most of your so-called specific comments was that I wanted to draw your, as well as others, attention to some basic methodological and epistemological differences between the two theories, so that your fundamental claim that Sraffian theory is just a special case of the GE theory has simply no legs to walk on. You seem to have completely, and I think delebrately, miss my point. If this long responce, which I'm writing, does not take care of any of your "specific" claims, I'll go back to it and make sure that I respond to them. ___ Gil: Ajit continues: I have one simple question to ask Gil, and then I might have more ;). Question: Arrow-Debreu commodities have many properties attached to them. One of them is time. So let's say we start off with the commodites for time zero. These commodities, by definition cannot be the products of commodities, ie. they could not have been produced by commodities. I disagree. Ajit's claim holds only if one insists that in the Arrow-Debreu framework "time zero" *must* be interpreted literally as "the beginning of time", or, if you'd prefer, "the beginning of market time." But in no case that I know of is "time zero" interpreted in this way--rather it is taken to represent "the current period" or "the initial period" of an economic interaction under study. Of course, one can assume this without having to pretend that current endowments fall like manna from heaven. _ Ajit: Your disagreement cannot nullify the logical validity of my point. I never said that time zero is GENERALLY taken to be before the beginning of production. My point was that logically you could set up a general equilibrium market before any production has taken place. Because, the theory takes ENDOWMENTS as GIVEN. This was not my original point, as a matter of fact. John Geanakoplos, who is respected enough in this area to have written the entry 'Arrow-Debreu model of GE' in the New Palgrave, makes this point. So let me quote Geanakoplos: "The Arrow-Debreu model of general equilibrium is relentlessly neoclassical; in fact it has become the paradigm of the neoclassical approach. This stems in part from its individualistic hypothesis, and its celebrated conclusions about the potential efficacy of unencumbered markets. (...). But still more telling is the fact that the assumption of a finite number of commodities (and hence of dates) forces upon the model the interpretation of the economic process as a one-way activity of converting given primary resources into final consumption goods. If there is universal agreement about when the world will end, there can be no question about the reproduction of capital stock. In equilibrium it will be run down to zero. Similarly when the world has definite beginning, so that the first market transction takes place after the ownership of all resources and techniques, and the preferences of all individuals have been determined, one cannot study the evolution of the social norms of consumption in terms of the historical development of the relations of production. ONE CERTAINLY CANNOT SPEAK ABOUT THE PRODUCTION OF ALL COMMODITIES BY COMMODITIES (SRAFFA, 1960) (SINCE AT DATE ZERO THERE MUST BE COMMODITIES WHICH HAVE
