Hi Pensters,
My view from down here and from having known people in
the rank file voting public of California is that
they voted for Arnie because he promised them simple,
honest good governance and a 'strong' government. The
government under Davis was seen as weak, which is why
so many people
Thanks for that interesting slice of life, Jurrian!
Mike B)
--- Jurriaan Bendien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Youssef's brother Redouane visited us tonight, and I
had a conversation with
him in the kitchen, in bad German, telling him about
the financial
accounting for war costs in Iraq was
I have to say that it is curious to me to have a country [like Iraq - JB]
whose per capita income, GDP, is about $800 ... that a county that poor
should be required to pay reparations to countries whose per capita GDP is a
factor of 10 times that for a war which all of the Iraqis who are now in
In his reply to Doug Henwood's article in the Nation, Peter Bohmer makes
points that are thought provoking. Confined to my bedroom due to a bad flu,
I will share with you some of my misery in the form of lengthy comments on
Peter's remarks. Forgive me. I won't happen again anytime soon.
Peter
[Part II]
Peter Bohmer continues:
To this end, I support protectionism and subsidies, particularly in the
global south to support this type of rural production. I think similarly
protecting small farmers and particularly those producing for the local and
the national market should be supported
I'm curious what PEN-Lers think a socialist or other variety of
progressive government should do in a mostly poor, rural, peasant
society. Promote education and industrialization? Wouldn't that
undermine the economic and social bases of existing life? Try to
restrain the forces of capitalist
On Monday, October 13, 2003 at 10:21:11 (-0400) Doug Henwood writes:
I'm curious what PEN-Lers think a socialist or other variety of
progressive government should do in a mostly poor, rural, peasant
society. Promote education and industrialization? Wouldn't that
undermine the economic and social
Doug asks:
I'm curious what PEN-Lers think a socialist or other variety of
progressive government should do in a mostly poor, rural, peasant
society. Promote education and industrialization?
Wouldn't that
undermine the economic and social bases of existing life?
as Bill says, consult the
Doug asked if we would want to see a socialist government restrain
the forces of capitalist and/or technological development. Bill said,
ask the people, not us. Correct.
I would add that we can distinguish between capitalist and technological
development.
Of course, any kind of change -- even
John Harvey
asked me to post this.
ICAPE BBS
DearColleague,ICAPE (the International Confederation of
Associations for Pluralism in Economics)now sponsors a BBS, and you're
invited! At best, I hope to see it become a place for conversation among
the various approaches to economics. At
Devine, James wrote:
Doug asks:
I'm curious what PEN-Lers think a socialist or other variety of
progressive government should do in a mostly poor, rural, peasant
society. Promote education and industrialization?
Wouldn't that
undermine the economic and social bases of existing life?
as Bill
On Monday, October 13, 2003 at 11:59:46 (-0400) Doug Henwood writes:
Devine, James wrote:
Doug asks:
I'm curious what PEN-Lers think a socialist or other variety of
progressive government should do in a mostly poor, rural, peasant
society. Promote education and industrialization?
Wouldn't
Devine, James wrote:
Doug asks:
I'm curious what PEN-Lers think a socialist or other variety of
progressive government should do in a mostly poor,
rural, peasant
society. Promote education and industrialization?
Wouldn't that
undermine the economic and social bases of existing
Focus on food, education, health, housing first. When that is dealt
with, proceed at a very deliberate pace, with ample time for review and
evaluation, with an ecologically responsible industrialization policy.
Prepare to be invaded for terrorizing the capitalists.
Joanna
Doug Henwood wrote:
Yes, I left the ask the people stuff off my post, because people in
the third world have a skewed image of what industralization and
modernity imply. What they're exposed to in the media is the magic
outcome of that process...without understanding what that process
implies. So, health, education,
From: Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED]
There is a telling moment in this documentary that makes the Iraqi
resistance understandable. Shortly after a decision has been made by the
US to crack down on looting, we see an army patrol that has captured a
perpetrator who has a bunch of stolen wood on
To Julio, thanks for your thoughtful responses. I think your point about
also putting at the center the needs of landless peasants and
farmworkers is really important and much appreciated, Peter
Julio Huato wrote:
[Part II]
Peter Bohmer continues:
To this end, I support protectionism and
I wouldn't take issue with the contempt displayed for the
California electorate, the Lib-Dems, and Schwarzenegger
personally. But. The one important progressive proposal
to emerge from the entire recall circus came from...
Schwarzenegger! He promised a program to provide
hydrogen refueling
Does anyone know anything about the number or nature of new corporate
governance courses that have been added to undergraduate or MBA programs
following the Enron/WorldCom scandals?
Thanks,
Nomi
-Original Message-
From: PEN-L list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jurriaan
Bendien
On his radio show yesterday, satirist Harry Shearer said that the British GUARDIAN
reported that the US was going to end the UN food program in Iraq in January. Is there
any truth to this?
Jim
Subject: [PEN-L] Quote du Jour: Paul Bremer on economic justice
I have to say that it is curious
- Original Message -
From: nomi prins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Does anyone know anything about the number or nature of new corporate
governance courses that have been added to undergraduate or MBA programs
following the Enron/WorldCom scandals?
Thanks,
Nomi
==
These
Peter Camejo put forward a number of progessive proposals, more
important by far than anything put forward by anyone else.
I am repeatedly surprised by the fascination many environmentalists
have with the wonderful future world of hydrogen. Let's see, we build
power plants to generate
Gene said:
Peter Camejo put forward a number of progessive proposals, more
important by far than anything put forward by anyone else.
a lot of people were saying that Camejo (and before him, Huffington) was the best
candidate, in terms of actually having principles and expressing them
The Repug. energy plan has a new nuke to be built in Idaho, I believe, to
help to make hydrogen -- so the Bushits are true environmentalists.
On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 01:23:18PM -0700, Eugene Coyle wrote:
Peter Camejo put forward a number of progessive proposals, more
important by far than
of course, putting it in Idaho would fit with the reactionary nature of much of the
electorate there. A lot of white LAPD cops retire there so they can find similar
people. It's called blue heaven.
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
The
from SLATE's news summary:
USA Today's lead says the military is looking into soldier suicides
in Iraq, since, as one military psychiatrist said, the overall
number of them has caused the Army to be concerned. There have
been at least 14 suicides among troops in Iraq in the past seven
months.
Eugene Coyle wrote:
I am repeatedly surprised by the fascination many environmentalists
have with the wonderful future world of hydrogen. Let's see, we build
power plants to generate electricity to extract hydrogren, then ship, by
pipe or other means the hydrogen to someplace else to make
I am out of town right now using remote access, so I will only give a
limited reply - yes. This was first established by the big Security
Council Resolution at the end of the war. The readiness of the French et.
el. to withdraw the embargo and turn the UN role to the U.S. was a major
and
Hydrogen is useful because it is not a carbon based
fuel. Global warming and other problems associated
with air/water/Earth pollution can be dealt with in
real substatial ways, if humans get wise and organise
ways to use fuels which don't involve burning carbon
based fuels for energy. I doubt
[was RE: [PEN-L] cooper on the Gray demise of the Lib-Dems]
Note that one of the things that right-wingers (such as Bush, Schwartzenegger) like to
do is to appear environmentalist by promising hydrogen power in the future while not
doing anything substantive to promote hydrogen. Hydrogen is one
Agreed. That's why it's called political-economy. ;D
Cheers,
Mike B)
--- Devine, James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[was RE: [PEN-L] cooper on the Gray demise of the
Lib-Dems]
Note that one of the things that right-wingers (such
as Bush, Schwartzenegger) like to do is to appear
Cuba is a model for such a process. After the revolution took power, it
prioritized rural development. To this day Havana remains neglected.
Large-scale farming enterprises were the beneficiaries of clinics, day-care
centers, schools, sports and cultural programs. It is also important to
consider
At 03:09 PM 10/13/2003 -0700, you wrote:
Agreed. That's why it's called political-economy. ;D
Cheers,
Mike B)
I don't understand why participants on this listserv can't clip text from
previous posts. Mike's one-line comment was trailed by a 3 mile long stream
of 's in front of obscure messages
Absolutely!
On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 06:16:29PM -0400, Louis Proyect wrote:
I don't understand why participants on this listserv can't clip text from
previous posts. Mike's one-line comment was trailed by a 3 mile long stream
of 's in front of obscure messages from days ago when this thread
Will clip in future.
--- Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
eyesore.
=
*
A man's maturity consists in finding once again the seriousness he had
as a child at play.
Heraclitus, Greek philosopher (500 B.C.)
great exchange!
Mike Ballard wrote:
sore.
--
card
I read an excellent book on the development of Cuba's medical care
programmes. It was written by an academic from the mid-west, who was
obviously not a socialist. And yet he was impressed and his account was
one of the most amazing accounts of what intelligence, good will, and a
humane project
The UN Oil-for-Food program was launched in 1996 in a bid to alleviate the
genocidal sanctions imposed on Iraq after the 1991 Gulf War. On 29 September
this year, the Executive Director of the UN Office of the Iraq Programme
(OIP), Benon Sevan said that the terrorist bombing of UN headquarters in
joanna bujes wrote:
I read an excellent book on the development of Cuba's medical care
programmes. It was written by an academic from the mid-west, who was
obviously not a socialist. And yet he was impressed and his account was
one of the most amazing accounts of what intelligence, good will, and
On his radio show yesterday, satirist Harry Shearer said that the
British GUARDIAN reported that the US was going to end the UN food
program in Iraq in January. Is there any truth to this?
Jim
* New York Times October 12, 2003
CULTURE OF DEPENDENCY
Another Challenge in Iraq: Giving Up
This is fucking priceless: (sorry Yoshie -- polite speech eludes me more
and more)
Economists, while acknowledging the need for protecting consumers
during the transition, say that a market economy would provide food
much more cheaply and efficiently than the current government-run
system. But the
From http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/
Joanna
Baghdad Hotel...
Baghdad Hotel was bombed today on Al-Sa adun street, which is a
mercantile area in Baghdad. Al-Sa adun area is one of the oldest areas
in Baghdad. The street is lined with pharmacies, optometrists,
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20031027s=henwood
Collapse in Cancün
by DOUG HENWOOD
[posted online on October 10, 2003]
snip
Which raises a question: What is progressive about using public
resources to support farming on cold, snowy, mountainous land? Isn't
the benefit of trade exactly to
- Original Message -
From: Yoshie Furuhashi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20031027s=henwood
Collapse in Cancün
by DOUG HENWOOD
[posted online on October 10, 2003]
snip
Which raises a question: What is progressive about using public
resources to support farming
Eubulides wrote:
Because food is a matter of national security in this cruel world?
For instance, a nation that is totally or even largely dependent upon
imported food or imported inputs (e.g., fuels, fertilizers,
pesticides, etc.) for food production and distribution is vulnerable
to foreign
Mike Ballard, I usually find your views dead-on but I think you are off
here in a couple of dimensions.
First, hydrogen is not a fuel. It is a storage medium for
energy extracted from other fuels -- whether wind or nuclear or
whatever.
Mike Ballard wrote:
Hydrogen is useful because it is
Basically the banks are arguing your love gimme such a thrill, but your
love don't pay my bills, so gimme money, that's what I want. (actually John
Lennon was sick in the plane prior to performing this song at the Live
Peace in Toronto concert in 1969).
Suppose that you are or feel dependent for
Eubulides wrote:
Because food is a matter of national security in this cruel world?
For instance, a nation that is totally or even largely dependent upon
imported food or imported inputs (e.g., fuels, fertilizers,
pesticides, etc.) for food production and distribution is vulnerable
to foreign
- Original Message -
From: Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Cancun
Eubulides wrote:
Because food is a matter of national security in this cruel world?
For instance, a nation that is totally or even
States of war
Appeasing the armed forces has become a political necessity for the
American president
George Monbiot
Tuesday October 14, 2003
The Guardian
The relationship between governments and those who seek favours from them
has changed. Not long ago, lobbyists would visit politicians and
At 11:59 AM -0400 10/13/03, Doug Henwood wrote:
Doug asks:
I'm curious what PEN-Lers think a socialist or other variety of
progressive government should do in a mostly poor, rural, peasant
society. Promote education and industrialization?
Wouldn't that
undermine the economic and social bases
Did Chalabi oppose the war? I doubt it.
Jurriaan Bendien wrote:
I have to say that it is curious to me to have a country [like Iraq - JB]
whose per capita income, GDP, is about $800 ... that a county that poor
should be required to pay reparations to countries whose per capita GDP is a
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At 11:59 AM -0400 10/13/03, Doug Henwood wrote:
Doug asks:
I'm curious what PEN-Lers think a socialist or other variety of
progressive government should do in a mostly poor, rural, peasant
society. Promote education and industrialization?
Wouldn't that
undermine the economic and social
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/13/03 8:16 PM
Planners are considering gradually replacing some groceries with cash
welfare payments or some version of food stamps that could be
redeemed at local markets. Besides giving shoppers more choices, the
change would also help Iraqi merchants and farmers, because
I discussed this in my first book, Farming for profit in a hungry world.
On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 10:42:32PM -0400, Michael Hoover wrote:
At 11:59 AM -0400 10/13/03, Doug Henwood wrote:
Doug asks:
I'm curious what PEN-Lers think a socialist or other variety of
progressive government
The discussion of Cancun is interesting but I would like to propose a
change in emphasis. Generally speaking the Cancun meeting came to a
halt because the developed capitalist countries were not willing to
engage agriculture as they had previously promised. Rather, they
demanded that third
Congress Weighs Corporate Tax Breaks
Lawmakers Look to Help Manufacturing Sector While Averting Conflict Over
Export Subsidy
By Jonathan Weisman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, October 14, 2003; Page E01
Congressional tax writers are rushing to complete legislation that would
offer tens
At 3:09 PM -0400 10/11/03, Doug Henwood wrote:
But are progressives against rich-country farm subsidies?
* New York Times Magazine October 12, 2003
THE WAY WE LIVE NOW
The (Agri)Cultural Contradictions of Obesity
By MICHAEL POLLAN
Sometimes even complicated social problems turn out to be
Title: Re: Hydrogen is not a fuel!
Eugene Coyle wrote:
...hydrogen is not a fuel.
It is a storage medium for energy extracted from other fuels --
whether wind or nuclear or whatever.
On the contrary, hydrogen is the energy source provided
by
virtually all the fuels in current use--petroleum,
Hi Eugene,
--- Eugene Coyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
First, hydrogen is not a fuel. It is a storage
medium for energy
extracted from other fuels -- whether wind or
nuclear or whatever.
Hydrogen can be burned. It is an element. It can be
extracted from water.
Did Chalabi oppose the war? I doubt it.
Jurriaan meant Gulf War II. He was of course a warhawk
for GWIII. I have no idea what his position, if any,
was on GWI--except that he stayed well away from the action.
Shane Mage
Thunderbolt steers all
things.
Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64
[speaking of the FTAA]
Bolivia's President Halts Controversial Gas Project
Strike Paralyzes Capital as Protests Spread
By Carlos Valdes
Associated Press
Tuesday, October 14, 2003; Page A16
LA PAZ, Bolivia, Oct. 13 -- Bolivia's president suspended on Monday a
controversial project to export
Arnold Schwarzenegger received 3,850,982 votes (at
http://vote2003.ss.ca.gov/Returns/gov/00.htm). Let's say that each
Green campaign worker in California should be responsible for
securing 100 votes for the Green Party gubernatorial candidate, by
getting registered Greens to vote, getting angry
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