Re: pluralization idea that keeps bugging me

). -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418

Re: pluralization idea that keeps bugging me

of complexity as Filter::Simple, except with much finer control and more correctness. I'm not the best person to answer this though. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpGuOUMaC21l.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: pluralization idea that keeps bugging me

interpolations as things stand? E.g., is there a way to add meaning to backslashed characters in a string that would normally lack meaning? You can subclass the grammar and change everything. Theoretically that's a yes =) -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org

Re: PERL arrays

by this far using some online tutorial. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpIQKKbvB8dY.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: Should a dirhandle be a filehandle-like iterator?

with it and make it bloat. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpNgghKAUJR3.pgp Description: PGP signature

Interrogating closures

the closed over variables would be cool. This keeps things concise and lightweight, but does add the ability to inspect (via a well defined api) what a closure is encapsulating, etc. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpiHn7ODKbF4.pgp Description

Closures, compile time, pad protos

a new sequence. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgplPyMaquTyx.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: Closures, compile time, pad protos

; sub foo { say ++$x; } BEGIN { foo(); moose(); foo(); } foo(); moose(); foo(); *foam oozes out of ears* -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418

Re: Closures, compile time, pad protos

On Wed, Nov 22, 2006 at 18:55:15 +0100, Juerd wrote: Yuval Kogman skribis 2006-11-22 16:01 (+0200): my $x ::= 3; sub foo { say ++$x }; Why would you be allowed to ++ this $x? It's bound to an rvalue! Perhaps my $x ::= BEGIN { Scalar.new( :value(3) ) } What we

Re: return Types: what are the enforcement details?

is a warning or an error. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpZuk0rgo5oy.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: Curious corner cases concerning closure cloning

is like a declaration putting the closure in some global, and doesn't actually happen at runtime. Otoh for 1,2 - $x { state $y = $x; END { say $y } } Might work -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418

Re: request addition of immutable Blob type

What about str? Or is it called buf now? -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpaF4yq94mUW.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: weak roles

make you do. Of course, we could use the Email::Abstract interface as a base- class to all email related modules, but you know that this wouldn't work for the Perl community... Base classes, as opposed to roles, don't work well at *all* for these types of scenarios. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL

Re: weak roles

is invoking the methods must explicitly say which behavior it prefers. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpZ2Gw5Yibt7.pgp Description: PGP signature

Type annotation on expressions

is shiny but everybody wants the colon: foo( ( $x :: Moose ) ); If we do find something (please ignore the fact that :: is probably not going to be the syntax), are these two the same? my $x = ( $y :: Moose ); my Moose $x = $y; -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http

Re: Type annotation on expressions

On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 11:12:11 +0100, Daniel Hulme wrote: I may be in a little world of my own here, but isn't this what 'as' is supposed to do? foo($x as Moose); as is a method invocation not a type annotation... It's related, but not the same (last I heard) -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL

Re: weak roles

, but again, hard to encourage on a wide scale. Oh, and hello everyone. Long time no see :-) Welcome back =) -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpdqdaI70kz3.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: Type annotation on expressions

Actually this particular example is just like coercion, and it's a bad one sorry. It's much more relevant for: fun( $x.foo :: Bar ); in order to annotate the return type for a call's context even if the 'fun' function's signature accepts Any. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: weak roles

On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 11:35:30 +, Luke Palmer wrote: On 8/8/06, Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I personally prefer delegates for almost any design dillema, but most CPAN modules aren't that way. Well, what way are they? Usually not polymorphic at all. We have the capabilities

Re: weak roles

role so errors will be caught quickly. It is also annotation-agnostic. Hmm... Are the 'adapts' things actual class bodies? Like an inner class? -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpt3fkl5vE9I.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: Type annotation on expressions

it is going to fail only if we consider the return type http://colabti.de/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6?date=2006-08-08,Tuesel=359#l545 for more discussion. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpbTNX1bN0Zz.pgp Description: PGP signature

weak roles

. they're more classes to write 3. they're harder to use Consequentially we have fairly few delegate based APIs for these problems (Email:Abstract is the only one I know). -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpsRApD6diiG.pgp Description: PGP

underscores in the core lib

my @deep = $meta.compute_all_attributes; # deep, also from superclasses Than my @attrs = $meta.attrs; my @deep = $meta.compattrs; -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpVoL9QodN0W.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!) -- Explained

to use Data::Compare, or to overload either == or eq, neither of which is a perfect fit. I have to catch my flight, so I'll explain more later. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgp4zdMSoN13m.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: optimizing with === immutable comparitor

allow that, but it has nothing to do with the language it might not even be faster. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgp2roLoyDefj.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!) -- Explained

into =:= (a trivial case) and stops. ( 1, 2.0, 3 ) === ( 1,2,3 ) True or false? false More imprtantly, how do I tell perl what I mean? The best I can think of is: [] (@a »==« @b) Vs [] (@a »eq« @b) Neither - it's on the natural types. If the types are different it's != -- Yuval

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!)

comparison. There is no need to try to generate some kind of unique numerical .id for arbitrarily complex objects. That creates a mess - sometimes objects compare themselves based on their value, and sometimes based on their containing slot. These are very different semantics. -- Yuval Kogman

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!) -- Explained

feel to it 4. =:= is rarely useful IMHO, so you can just type variable($x) =:= variable($y) Ciao -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpU0Qe5CPlhQ.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: Run time dispatch on ~~

that will actually run the ~~ for me, in some way, and i'd like 100% compatibility. Also, sometimes i am matching on behalf of my caller, this is very common in dispatch algorithms, or things like tree visitors: my @list = $tree.filter_children( $match ); # very generic and useful -- Yuval

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!) -- Explained

On Thu, Jul 13, 2006 at 12:50:19 -0700, Larry Wall wrote: On Thu, Jul 13, 2006 at 09:32:08PM +0300, Yuval Kogman wrote: : [1] My preferred ergonomics: : : 1. eqv goes away : 2. what was eqv is renamed to === : 3. === becomes =:=, which has a constant feel to it : 4

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!) -- Explained

=== ~$y } -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgp3B4GnByYFK.pgp Description: PGP signature

===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!)

, and it could cache checksums and it could do whatever - please don't bring this up as a performance issue, it is one of correctness and ergonomics that must be resolved first. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpI98L8HHVih.pgp Description: PGP

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!)

without introducing new complexity to the objects being compared as strings/numbers. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpefrROP9pJ6.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!)

be true, the fourth should be false, the fifth should be false, and the sixth should be false. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpNFsdSOd2Lf.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!)

, and it doesn't even work for my $x := $array[3]; $x =:= $array[3]; but i'll pretend you didn't say that ;-) -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpPMmzta8SWk.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!)

ref gets it as an argument it's a match! That's why ~~ isn't a comparison operator, but a smart match operator - it DWIMs *very* deeply. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpyx4u1552HO.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: ===, =:=, ~~, eq and == revisited (blame ajs!)

memory, here. Some implementations of Perl 6 might not know what memory looks like (on a sufficiently abstract VM). Slot -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpvVdjsJ0Et9.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: S?? OS interaction, POSIX and S29

wrapper around a more partitioned set of APIs, that provides a more toolchain like approach, and keeps the docs together. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpa4KWeuv2pQ.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: Classy logging for Classes

. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpOth0jMRVt0.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: easier duck typing in .can

On Sun, Jun 18, 2006 at 18:08:00 +1200, Sam Vilain wrote: Why would you not use .does or .isa there? Are you wanting this to go through all of the Class/Role's methods and check that the $object.can() them? Because if you don't control $object's class you can't change it. -- Yuval Kogman

easier duck typing in .can

compile time verification } without affecting our hard earned renewed purity of .isa and .does (due to roles in Perl 6). Comments? -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpuJ14rwywVH.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: A shorter long dot

; $foo.bar; $ba.:bar; $x. :bar; Frankly I don't think there's *that* much of a difference - each has pros and cons. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpWe4XRnb3kg.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: Fw: ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Re: A shorter long dot

that message (with full headers) to [EMAIL PROTECTED] who will then apply the LART. As I figure I'm about to get one, I'll (also) forward mine. Just got one... By LARTing you mean forcibly unsubscribing? because the message was sent to me directly too... -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http

Re: A shorter long dot

On Sat, Apr 29, 2006 at 19:03:28 -0700, chromatic wrote: Two invisible things look completely different to you? If dots looked like this: then they would be invisible. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgplPt8CiApME.pgp Description: PGP

Re: The whatever context

? If just grep that means that grep simply doesn't use want. If it's any function, then it means that all are constants are list or whatever, and all we really have are coercers. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpOSjPzPmwDK.pgp Description: PGP

The whatever context

to think (== good for when you are evaluating a fucntion ref and you don't know what it is, but you want the natural value to be returned). b. writing eval bots and interactive shells: (whatever eval $expr).perl; ;-) -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org

Re: replacement of $

On Sun, Apr 02, 2006 at 02:04:07 +0300, Larry Wall wrote: ^^^-- (actually that was IDT in the headers) Hi, I'm in Israel and Japan at the same time! Nice one though ;-) plugIf you guys would have participated in the keysigning parties.../plug -- Yuval

'temp $x;' with no assignment

} # $x is 5 again and otherwise pretty much DWIMs, except from a historical perspective. -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpqVi7l1FtDo.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: 'temp $x;' with no assignment

On Mon, Mar 27, 2006 at 14:35:52 -0600, Jonathan Scott Duff wrote: On Mon, Mar 27, 2006 at 05:26:48PM +0200, Yuval Kogman wrote: How did $x become 10?!?!? :-) GHC has this lovely error: my brain just exploded I think Perl 6 should have a similar runtime warning about how it's usiong my short

Re: 'temp $x;' with no assignment

On Mon, Mar 27, 2006 at 14:54:05 -0600, Jonathan Scott Duff wrote: Make me believe your 90/10 numbers. http://cpansearch.bulknews.net/ is broken right now... =( -- Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nothingmuch.woobling.org 0xEBD27418 pgpCMeQfldQFY.pgp Description: PGP signature

where will we die to?

entries have a catch block. The other thing is to be able to trace an exception: if we have 'die foo but traced' then the exception should print cought at rethrowed as it's doing that. This second thing is much harder for me to pretend to implement -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: where will we die to?

On Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 08:14:03 -0800, Larry Wall wrote: On Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 02:27:07PM +0200, Yuval Kogman wrote: How else would you implement it that doesn't impact performance? One of the main reasons for having exceptions is that they're exceptional, and should be pessimized

RFC - weird stuff I had to do (for fun or profit)

modules can be revisited and maybe better designed. Please reply to this thread with your tales of glory (or failures, and the reason they failed). -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: /me climbs a brick wall with his fingers: neeyah

Re: RFC - weird stuff I had to do (for fun or profit)

have been happier if I could have a nice hook interface with which i could trap both module includes, and all IO operations and insert my own magic into the mess to aid me in my *DEVELOPMENT* process (not production related at all =) -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker

Perl 6 design wiki?

documentation of a language, if you will. Pugs has example code, some quick start guides, and a few other nice things in it's repository, which are not pugs specific in any way. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master

Re: Separate compilation and compile-time things

in the compiler's runtime this is slightly consistent ;-) -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: /me supports the ASCII Ribbon Campaign: neeyah!!! pgpmGMthxUDLd.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: Separate compilation and compile-time things

-- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: /me tips over a cow: neeyah!! pgpvcXIoJdS3m.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: A proposition for streamlining Perl 6 development

On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 12:37:05 -0800, chromatic wrote: On Tuesday 07 February 2006 23:55, Yuval Kogman wrote: Does this imply that we should think up this process? Go ahead. We'll start at the Israel hackathon, with a little preamble. The last time someone tried to set forth

Re: A proposition for streamlining Perl 6 development

trying to answer these questions. Thanks -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: /methinks long and hard, and runs away: neeyah!!! pgpHSuE6cygmL.pgp Description: PGP signature

A proposition for streamlining Perl 6 development

have a layered approach we can concentrate on providing something that is more balanced ... Phew. Ciao! -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: /me spreads pj3Ar using 0wnage: neeyah!!! pgpkySSgvyN4A.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: A proposition for streamlining Perl 6 development

6's design, which I think is also important. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: /me does not drink tibetian laxative tea: neeyah! pgpQnTRA3i2ZH.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: A proposition for streamlining Perl 6 development

On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 08:59:35 +0800, Audrey Tang wrote: On 2/8/06, Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If Audrey is willing, I think a correct new direction for pugs is to try and separate the parts even more - the prelude is a mess right now, many of it's part are duplicated across

Re: A proposition for streamlining Perl 6 development

macros get (the definition of the AST). Etc etc etc. These things are also important to implementation, and amount to a huge chunk of code. If we can layer this code, chunk it up, componentize it and make it clean we we can implement it more easily. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418

Re: A proposition for streamlining Perl 6 development

runtime, not just syntax/features. What I'm suggesting is a start in this clarification - trying to componentize the existing syntax/feature spec that we do have, so tha the design of the runtime can be simplified and more concrete/attainable. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl

Universal Roles, and deriving these roles for any class

of attribute grammars - i'd like to be able to automatically derive node roles inside AGs by just specifying a generic universal behavior, and behavior for the leaves. Err, comments please =) -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master

Re: Macros?

, so there's not much to say. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: /me climbs a brick wall with his fingers: neeyah! pgpjt66A0JBma.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: Macros?

On Sun, Jan 29, 2006 at 20:29:43 +, Herbert Snorrason wrote: On 29/01/06, Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Basically the plan is that when an internal AST language is decided upon, the macros will be able to get either the source code text, or an AST. Two things. First, if the AST

Re: facades, use_ok, and lexical export

as a function could simply import $module into the non lexical scope because it's a runtime thing, unless it's made into a macro/some other compile time construct, that is more declarative in nature, and makes the whole process more opaque. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker

Re: Perl grammar for Perl5 - Perl6

for this it won't be very extensible, but this is important because perl is reallly hard to parse. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: /me supports the ASCII Ribbon Campaign: neeyah!!! pgpnA5re5zZw2.pgp Description: PGP

Re: Capabilities in Perl6?

stuff. This is a very good start towards a model where a crippled runtime is mixed with a fully priviliged one, with grey areas in the middle. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: : neeyah

Re: Classification syntax [Was: Renaming grep]

general since it allows classification to include duplicates. Grep is simply: sub grep (filter, [EMAIL PROTECTED]) { classify - $x, f { f($x) if filter($x); } [EMAIL PROTECTED]; } -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: Role Method Conflicts and Disambiguation

to be around. As long as it's not too late ;-) -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: : neeyah! pgpABuzitn7pL.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: Role Method Conflicts and Disambiguation

On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 14:19:46 -0400, Stevan Little wrote: Yuval, On Oct 28, 2005, at 10:59 AM, Yuval Kogman wrote: On Thu, Oct 27, 2005 at 22:19:16 -0400, Stevan Little wrote: Now, at this point we have a method conflict in suspension since (according to A/S-12) method conflicts do

Re: Role Method Conflicts and Disambiguation

, and if not it warrants familiarity. I don't think we can let the user use library code without being aware of the library code internals at all. Abstraction that works like this is usually either crippled or useless. 90% of the time you don't want to know, but there are exceptions. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL

Re: Role Method Conflicts and Disambiguation

that... In that case roles are broken... They will need instance data (that doesn't conflict when it's private) to support the methods they give their consumers. Is there any good reason to not allow roles to introduce member data into a class? -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl

Making Wrong Code Type Wrong

by overzealous typing. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: /me has realultimatepower.net: neeyah pgp0aSpBeHuHF.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: Making Wrong Code Type Wrong

On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 21:04:02 +0200, Juerd wrote: Yuval Kogman skribis 2005-10-18 20:38 (+0200): the function encode has the type Unsafe - Safe I read the article before. What occurred to me then did so again now. What exactly do Unsafe and Safe mean? Safe for *what*? That was just

Re: Should roles and classes be merged?

parametrized, but i don't really mind parametrizing roles that are really classes to make anonymous classes. This way it is clear that there can never be uninstantiatable classes around. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: /me kicks %s on the nose: neeyah

Book RFC - Migrating to Perl 6

we think it will be structured, and how we think it should be written. Please post feedback and criticism on the list, #perl6 or the wiki page. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: : neeyah

Re: Closed Classes Polemic (was Re: What the heck is a submethod (good for))

of doing it, but if perl 6 gets compiled portably to many different bytecodes (which it seems like it will) someone somewhere will write a backend which allows people to encrypt, and people will use it. I think this is something we need to accept, even if it isn't something we like. -- () Yuval

Re: What the heck is a submethod (good for)

a lot in many places. This has even more implications with closed classes to which you don't have source level access, and if this can happen it will happen - i'm pretty sure that some commercial database vendors would release closed source DBDs, for example. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL

Re: Sane (less insane) pair semantics

On Sun, Oct 09, 2005 at 20:22:59 +0200, Ingo Blechschmidt wrote: Opinions? Yes! -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: *shu*rik*en*sh*u*rik*en*s*hur*i*ke*n*: neeyah pgpPtAVtx26AP.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: Exceptuations

On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 02:31:12 -0400, Austin Hastings wrote: Yuval Kogman wrote: On Thu, Oct 06, 2005 at 14:27:30 -0600, Luke Palmer wrote: On 10/6/05, Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: when i can't open a file and $! tells me why i couldn't open, i can

Re: Exceptuations

On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 05:23:55 +0100, Piers Cawley wrote: Peter Haworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 19:24:47 +0200, Yuval Kogman wrote: On Wed, Oct 05, 2005 at 16:57:51 +0100, Peter Haworth wrote: On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:17:05 +0200, TSa wrote: Piers Cawley wrote

Re: Type annotations

as a copy to enter this container if it's type doesn't match. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: /me sushi-spin-kicks : neeyah pgpT5DKCUCMHu.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: Exceptuations

no reason why we would want to implement this any other way but using continuations. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: *shu*rik*en*sh*u*rik*en*s*hur*i*ke*n*: neeyah pgpRP3mAuY8ah.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: Type annotations

everywhere for a given version of Perl. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: /me does a karate-chop-flip: neeyah!! pgpdHU54ECTW7.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: Exceptuations

it's interface by calling code it doesn't know with a certain parameter, accepting a certain parameter back. That way encapsulation is not broken, but errors that happen deep inside a call chain can be dealt with by code that can interact with the user. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: Exceptuations

to fail (or delegate a fail), until the failure crosses into a 'use fatal' scope. That way both the catching code and the throwing code are reusable and orthogonal when they are unrelated, but the possibility of coupling handling code with throwing code is still there. -- () Yuval Kogman

Re: Exceptuations

... } when MyApp::Timeout { ask_user_to_continue_or_abort(); } ... } -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: /me dodges cabbages like macalypse log N: neeyah! pgpQfW4BcQBM2.pgp

Re: Type annotations

])); dynamic(notcode, static({ $_+1 }, [1,2,3,4,5])); This is only with full inferencing, either lexically enabled as a a pragma (in the scope that invokes), or if enabled globally. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: /me does a karate-chop-flip: neeyah

Re: Exceptuations

On Thu, Oct 06, 2005 at 14:27:30 -0600, Luke Palmer wrote: On 10/6/05, Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: when i can't open a file and $! tells me why i couldn't open, i can resume with an alternative handle that is supposed to be the same when I can't

Re: my $key is sensitive;

' as a taint-oriented-role, that installs an event handler for the tainting container and any value, marking a runtime specific flag that means sensitive. That way the implementation of the role is simple. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: uhm, no, I think

Re: Exceptuations

handler knows *EVERYTHING* because it knows what exception it caught: CATCH { when some_kind_of_error { $!.continue($appropriate_value_for_some_kind_of_error) } } -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker

Re: Exceptuations, fatality, resumption, locality, and the with keyword; was Re: use fatal err fail

the current environment. Yes, I see, but instead of doing it that way you can do it more safely with more characters by introspecting the exception object and using well documented attributes instead. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: /me groks

Re: Exceptuations

); } else { die $!; } } } Pluginish::App-run; -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: /methinks long and hard, and runs away

Re: Exceptuations

one, due to an error, the code may choose to deal with the error by giving you a big stick. Then you can go back and beat the minotaur into submission, and resume with trying to get results. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: /me whallops greyface

Re: Exceptuations

of thought. I intentionally did not use the computer related definitions from e.g. wikipedia, because they are more subject to cultural inertia, and we are trying to discover the roots of these borrowed terms. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker /\ kung foo master: /me

Re: use fatal err fail

. The reason exceptions tend to pop upwards more is that they are handled in a way that if the immediate caller doesn't know how to handle it either, it keeps going up the call stack till a calling scope does know what to do, and can explcititly take control. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: Exceptuations, fatality, resumption, locality, and the with keyword; was Re: use fatal err fail

is that records in a static language are static, and hashes are dynamic. There is no way to tell the user at compile time that a variable doesn't exist because we don't know if there's such a hash key. This means that 'use strict' cannot work in a 'with'ed block. -- () Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED

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