Re: Iranian Calendar (P.S.)
On Wed, 2004-05-19 at 10:25, C Bobroff wrote: Is there any way to type a hyphen that will resist break-up during wrapping? Use the Insert | Symbol menu in MS Word for lots of other things also, copyright symbols, non-breaking spaces, longer dashes, ... roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar (P.S.)
On Wed, 2004-05-19 at 14:05, Hooman Mehr wrote: The fact that Iranian authorities in this regard act as if they are directly appointed by God is another story... Don't get hot, please. roozbeh PS: Where is this admin hat? I left it just here last time! :'-( roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Tue, 2004-05-18 at 04:47, hameed afssari wrote: Microsoft Lunar Hijri calendar is based on Calculation of Saudi Arabian Authority and not Kuwait ... I can't confirm that. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_calendar where it specifically mentions that: Microsoft uses the Kuwaiti algorithm to convert Gregorian dates to the Islamic ones. It is based on statistical analysis of historical data from Kuwait. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Iranian Calendar
Hello, I am slow these days to answer, sorry for that; I'm getting over the exams now. I read the mailings for the last few days about the calendar. It's nice to see new and knowledgeable friends like Hooman Mehr and Ordak D. Coward taking part here. There were things new for me and mixed up a bit. Let me brief out what I understand out of the mess about the solar calendar. Please correct me wherever I'm wrong. The calendar Hejrie Shamsi comes in types: - The early solar calendar (Hejrie Shamsie Borji), an observational solar calendar with tropical years. The months are synchronized observationally with the duration sun stays in each of the 12 zodiacal constellations, which vary between 29 to 32 days for each month with an accumulation of 365 or sometimes 366 days a year. - The old Jalali calendar, a true solar calendar with twelve 30-day months followed by 5 or 6 additional days at the end to fill a complete solar year. It starts with 'Norooze Jalali' [*]. - The modern Jalali calendar in use in Iran (Iranian calendar), reworked on the old Jalali calendar and uses the same leap structure; consists of six 31-day plus six 30-day months followed by a month of 29 days or 30 during a leap year. It starts with 'Norooze Jalali'. - The afghan Jalali calendar. It has the same month lengths as the Iranian calendar but the leap years are synchronized with the concurrent Gregorian years. Afghans celebrate Norooze Jalali but the first day of the year might start with an offset of 1 day from the Iranian calendar. [*] Norooze Jalali: The first day of a Jalali year. It is defined by the 'Tahvil' moment, the exact tick that the center of sun passes the point of vernal equinox in the northern hemisphere of the earth. If Tahvil happens before noon of the meridian of Tehran, then Norooz is the same day otherwise Norooz is the next day. There are different methods to estimate the precise moment of VE. The effort is to find the one that is as much as possible close to the real occurrence of the phenomenon. Omid ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Iranian Calendar
On Mon, 17 May 2004, Hooman Mehr wrote: Hi Omid and Connie, MSDN way of specifying Hijri calendar is like saying the length of any month in Gregorian calendar is 30 days plus or minus two days -- true but not very useful. [...] Hi Hooman, The Hijri calendar introduced in MSDN does not give you a totally accurate date, since as you know there are many many elements and dependancies around finding a correct Hijri date. It also does not work based on a specific region. It simply lets you adjust it manually by 2 days. It means it has always a probability of 1 or 2 days of error and seems that they prefer this descripency in return of the other advantages it gives: to cover every variant and every region, and the ability to fix the calendar in case that the observations change the authoritative estimated version of the calendar at any time. It is possible to implement the Hijri calendar the way ODC suggested, using online tables of Hijri adjustments for the past years but it still limits the divices to be online and yet it's impossible again to find assured correct dates in the future. With the current conditions in mind I think it is not out of sence to choose this particular calendar for the OS to be ordinarily useable rather than tailoring it for complex calendarical conversions. Omid ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar (P.S.)
Hi Connie, OK, white flag up! I'll write some crime stories. But don't expect anything this week, I am very busy. Hooman On May 20, 2004, at 2:16 AM, C Bobroff wrote: Dear Hooman, I may move these stories to my pending weblog which hopefully will open in the next several days. Why should you move to your weblog? I can't think of a better place for the story of Persian computing than PersianComputing. One more thing, the reason that I may seem talented for story telling is that I am an INFP (http://www.personalitypage.com/INFP.html), so be-warned. Glad to know just what we're up against here! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar (P.S.)
On Thu, 20 May 2004, Hooman Mehr wrote: I'll write some crime stories. But don't expect anything this week, I am very busy. OK! But if we are to properly judge your confession of past crimes, be sure to not leave out any details and please start from the beginning. You know, the glaciers were receding, the dinosaurs suddenly vanished, then...? Just deliver in small morsels as time permits! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar (P.S.)
Hi Ordak, What you say makes perfect sense. I just didn't want to go into detail of everything in this regard. Suffice it so say, in such cases people come to agreement on establishing such authorities as part of their civil society. I vaguely hinted this in my post. Such an authority develops out of the needs of daily social life and as a normal (say democratic) civil authority and not a dictated sacred authority which could abuse its power by taking calendar hostage. Note that it gets very tricky for a religion to define and establish something. There is endless potential for abuse. People tend to put a sacred halo around it, and you know what happens next... So, the calendar authority is needed but religion is not in the right entity to establish it. When a religion needs to rely on a calendar, it needs to establish it in a way that the algorithm is very simple and accessible for ordinary people and ensure that it leaves the origin of the authority (or decision) with people so that they can delegate their right as they see fit. The fact that Iranian authorities in this regard act as if they are directly appointed by God is another story... Hooman On May 19, 2004, at 3:04 AM, Ordak D. Coward wrote: Dear Hooman, I am not trying to be annoyingly responsive, it is just a bad habit! What you said is fine, but I have to add that a calendar authority -- be it a person, a group, or just an algorithm -- is necessary in resolving conflicts in observation of the date and time. For example, if a contract between A and B requires A delivering a product to B at a certain date, then the two entities would need to choose an authority to resolve their confict in case of B's claim that A did not deliver on time. -- ODC On Tue, 18 May 2004 20:48:09 +0430, Hooman Mehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 18, 2004, at 2:48 AM, C Bobroff wrote: On Mon, 17 May 2004, Hooman Mehr wrote: P.S.: Although Hijri calendar (and definition of the prayer times) look very strange and primitive, there is a very good philosophical reason behind it which makes sense once you know it. Do you know the reason or want to know it? Please continue. We are listening. You have a very nice narrative style! -Connie Hi Connie, Thank you for the nice complement. On a second thought, I got reluctant to discuss this matter on the list. It would be way off topic. Moreover, I am afraid that whatever I say could be interpreted as political statement or religious evangelism and start flamewars. Just to keep my word while trying to do minimal damage to the list, I'll write a paragraph: In original Islam, the definitions of calendar and prayer times are based on observation of simple natural phenomenon by ordinary human beings and assuring the individuals that their observation is valid and sufficient. The calendar authority is people, it comes from individual people with their personal observation, interpretation and judgment. Everybody can verify claims made by others. People usually voluntarily delegate this observation to a trustworthy group in a civil society. On the other hand, they may collaborate to ease the observation and get reassurance and support of others, while still keeping the final decision to themselves. This concept is closely related to some modern day concepts like human rights, diversity, democracy and freedom of information. To put it better in perspective, contrast this with the role of the religious calendars in ancient South American civilizations. Hooman Mehr ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar (P.S.)
Dear Connie, Thank you very much for your interest and support. I will try to start talking about such things soon. I may move these stories to my pending weblog which hopefully will open in the next several days. When I start the weblog I will announce it here. Although my limited time may prevent me from posting often. One more thing, the reason that I may seem talented for story telling is that I am an INFP (http://www.personalitypage.com/INFP.html), so be-warned. Hooman On May 19, 2004, at 10:24 AM, C Bobroff wrote: On Tue, 18 May 2004, Hooman Mehr wrote: On a second thought, I got reluctant to discuss this matter on the list. It would be way off topic. Moreover, I am afraid that whatever I say could be interpreted as political statement or religious evangelism and start flamewars. Looks like Fortune smiled upon you and you managed to post without getting flamed. So, with this newly acquired confidence and since you have some talent in story-telling, are you going to please tell us about your past crimes soon? Nimrooz, etc? I mean, from the beginning and please don't skimp on the details. I think I'm not the only one who would love to hear it! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar (P.S.)
On Wed, 19 May 2004, Behnam wrote: The Unicode character is U-2011, Non-Breaking Hyphen. If you don't have it on your keyboard, you may be able to use this information to type it with other tools or utilities. As Ordak D. Coward reports, Ctrl-Shift-Hyphen instead of hyphen does the trick in Word. (I checked.) I never thought of using Help. What a novel idea! U+2011 should definitely be part of the custom Perso-Arabic transliteration keyboards. (Hint to Peter) Or you can drop the Al- altogether. If I remember correctly, his street name in Iran was Biruni short and simple! Yes, you have to keep the audience in mind and pick from Abu Rayhan, Biruni, al-Biruni. Worse with (al-)Ghaz(z)ali. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar (P.S.)
Dear Hooman, I may move these stories to my pending weblog which hopefully will open in the next several days. Why should you move to your weblog? I can't think of a better place for the story of Persian computing than PersianComputing. One more thing, the reason that I may seem talented for story telling is that I am an INFP (http://www.personalitypage.com/INFP.html), so be-warned. Glad to know just what we're up against here! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar (P.S.)
I don't see its use in Perso-Arabic script. B. On 19-May-04, at 5:38 PM, C Bobroff wrote: U+2011 should definitely be part of the custom Perso-Arabic transliteration keyboards. (Hint to Peter) ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar (P.S.)
On Wed, 19 May 2004, Behnam wrote: I don't see its use in Perso-Arabic script. I meant both Latin input and output here. The punishment for misunderstanding the question is that you have to answer some Mac questions! (New form of flaming, hope you like it!) I'm getting 1 or 2 Mac users per week asking for info on how to type Persian and I just am not sure what the state of the technology is so can you please give the definitive guide? (And anyone else who can please contribute, also, so there is one place with the basic info.) See my next post. Thanks in advance! -Connie On 19-May-04, at 5:38 PM, C Bobroff wrote: U+2011 should definitely be part of the custom Perso-Arabic transliteration keyboards. (Hint to Peter) ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Tue, 18 May 2004, Ordak D. Coward wrote: - Birashk's book. He had published a book on his work, if memory serves me, it was called 'taarikh-tatbighi-ye Iran'. Looks like the English version of this book is on sale if you're interested: http://www.mazdapublishers.com/Comparative-Calendar.htm -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
Hi Ordak, Lemme welcome you to our list. Comments below. On Tue, 18 May 2004, Ordak D. Coward wrote: - As the lunar calendar in Iran is observation based, there is no way to have an exact conversion for a date in future to/from lunar calendar. However, it is possible to do so for past dates. What I suggest is that the implementation SHALL convert dates precisely for past dates, and do a best guess conversion for future dates. Hence, the conversion algorithm (or a related resource) needs to be updated at most 12 times a year, and in case of Iran, only at the beginning of Ramadhan and Shawwal. This update could as well be propagated through a network protocol like NTP (Network Time Protocol). Also, the conversion shall try to conform to the official published Iranian calendar for future dates in the same year. For future years, it should calculate the lunar calendar using astronomical methods. That has been our (FarsiWeb's) idea too. BTW, the protocol better be XML-RPC over HTTP. - Mordad vs. Amordad. I have seen both in calendars, but I guess I do not count, as I have been out of Iran for a long time now! Anyway, I have only seen Amordad in day planners marketed at the higher end. So, in my opinion, Mordad or Amordad are both fine. Although I prefer to see Mordad myself. But, I think this should be a user option. And does not need to be implemented at the convesion level Omid is working on. I still vote for Mordad. Using Amordad is like writing Ordi-Behesht instead of Ordibehesh. The fact is that, languages change over time. It's like using Shaksepearean English. - b.z vs. asr. I do not know the flexibility of the API, but it would be nice if we can have three designators, sobh, asr and shab. sobh is for 6:00 am to 11:59pm. asr for 12:00 am to 5:59pm, and shab for 6:00pm to 5:59am. The time ranges are not exact, but they are close to what you hear if you want to set appointments in Iran. Exactly. In fact I have proposed this one: 00:00-00:59: Nimeh-shab 01:00-06:59: Bamdad 07:00-11:59: Sobh 12:00-12:59: Zohr 13:00-18:59: Asr 19:00-23:59: Shab - Jalali vs Iranian. I strongly prefer Jalali, as it refers to a spcific method of keeping dates regardless of the country it is used in. For example, if were still under Qajar rule or Pahlavi rule, then we would have either used Hijri-Qamari calendar or Shahanshai, still both would have been considered Iranian calendar. So, in a country which has recently changed its official calendar a few times, we better stick to a name that will be in place regardless of the government. I am under the impression that the current calendar is use is techincally Birashk's calendar. Birashk perfected the old Jalali Calendar (which had 33/128 year periods vs 33/128/2820 year periods of Birashk). I'm still against Jalali, because as Roozbeh mentioned, the Jalali calendar has been different in number of months. To be exact, we should call it Birashk, but since it's highly unprobable that the Iranian calendar changes again, I say lets stick with Iranian Calendar. About Shahanshahi era, a good converter can assume years 2500-2600 are in this era (Hint Hamed). - Birashk's book. He had published a book on his work, if memory serves me, it was called 'taarikh-tatbighi-ye Iran'. He had a few examples of different date conversions, using a rather large table for lookups. That table could be used as a test vector for the date conversion utility. I once did my own derivations to derive his table, and except one entry, my code and his table conformed. I never figured the source of the discrepancy. I just ordered the book. Will let people know when I get my hands to it. -- ODC PS. I hope no one gets offended by my chouce of pseudonym. Looks like we have found a great man. Would you mind introducing yourself and telling us more about your background? Later, --behdad behdad.org ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Tue, 18 May 2004 02:58:05 -0400, Behdad Esfahbod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 18 May 2004, Ordak D. Coward wrote: - Jalali vs Iranian. I strongly prefer Jalali, as it refers to a spcific method of keeping dates regardless of the country it is used in. For example, if were still under Qajar rule or Pahlavi rule, then we would have either used Hijri-Qamari calendar or Shahanshai, still both would have been considered Iranian calendar. So, in a country which has recently changed its official calendar a few times, we better stick to a name that will be in place regardless of the government. I am under the impression that the current calendar is use is techincally Birashk's calendar. Birashk perfected the old Jalali Calendar (which had 33/128 year periods vs 33/128/2820 year periods of Birashk). I'm still against Jalali, because as Roozbeh mentioned, the Jalali calendar has been different in number of months. To be exact, we should call it Birashk, but since it's highly unprobable that the Iranian calendar changes again, I say lets stick with Iranian Calendar. I could not find Roozbeh's post your are refering to. However, the main difference is the the name of the months and the number of days in each month, at least from what I understood from Iranica. I went back and read most of the Iranica's entry on calendars. It seems to me that the correct name of the current calendar in Iran is Hijri Shamsi, and NOT Jalali calendar, so I take back the suggestion of Jalali. As the first day of year in H.S. calendar is Norooz-e-Jalali, then a common misconception is that H.S and Jalali are the same. Norooz-e-Jalali refers to the method of detrmining the first day of the year -- the day sun enters Aries. Iranica also mentions a 128 year period for calculating leap years, which I think is the same method Omid is using is his implementation. I guess the 33 year period is attributed to Khayyam. And, 2820 year period to Birashk. Now, I have no idea which calendar the Iranian government uses. I also found the link: http://www.angelfire.com/dc2/calendrics/ which I find interesting and amusing to read. Essentially the author argues that the 33 year period of leap years is more precise than the 2820 year period. About Shahanshahi era, a good converter can assume years 2500-2600 are in this era (Hint Hamed). It is essential that te converter should let the user know about this assumption. -- ODC ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar (P.S.)
On Tue, 18 May 2004, Hooman Mehr wrote: On a second thought, I got reluctant to discuss this matter on the list. It would be way off topic. Moreover, I am afraid that whatever I say could be interpreted as political statement or religious evangelism and start flamewars. Looks like Fortune smiled upon you and you managed to post without getting flamed. So, with this newly acquired confidence and since you have some talent in story-telling, are you going to please tell us about your past crimes soon? Nimrooz, etc? I mean, from the beginning and please don't skimp on the details. I think I'm not the only one who would love to hear it! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar (P.S.)
Actually, all this off-topic mix of calendars and philosophy has reminded me that when I was writing something (in English) a few months ago on Al-Biruni, whenever his name came up at the end of the line in Word, it would wrap and so the Al- would be on one line and the Biruni would go down to the next. This seemed not very respectful to break up a great man's name like that! Is there any way to type a hyphen that will resist break-up during wrapping? -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
Hi Omid and Connie, MSDN way of specifying Hijri calendar is like saying the length of any month in Gregorian calendar is 30 days plus or minus two days -- true but not very useful. Alright my example is grossly exaggerated, but I mean to highlight my point. The official Iranian Islamic Calendar is computed by a body called Showraa-ye Aalie-e Taghvim (quoting Roozbeh's spelling). It comes up with an initial estimate (or best guess) of the *adjusted* calendar which is usually only re-adjusted for Ramadan. This pre-adjusted calendar is not the same as the basic table in MSDN, nor the mostly observational Hijri calendar meant by MSDN and common in Saudi Arabia. You can verify my assertion by looking at the published calendars for the past few years and see that it does not match perfectly. To be honest, the last time I checked was more than 10 years ago and I no longer have the specifics, so I'll be glad to see it verified again to see if there is any changes in how that mysterious chamber calculates it. On the other hand, you can come up with good research work in academia around the world in this regard (like the link Omid mentions), but none of them will be the official Iranian Islamic Calendar even if it matches the past history of the printed calendars perfectly. This is the same funny (or sad) issue already raised for 2820-year Birashk calendar. As a result, I am against treating this calendar to be the same as Hijri calendar with MSDN definition or any none official academic definition, even if the difference would be one day in 50 years. Algorithmic calculation of a pre-adjusted Hijri calendar is potentially way more complicated than Birashk calendar and is always less precise, so there is more potential for variation among the different bodies calculating it. It is affected by exact geographic coordinates (not just time-zone), height of the location, neighboring ground texture (being water, mountains, etc.), relative position of sun and earth or in common terms season (seasons in the Hijri calendar rotate, so that the same month is sometimes in mid-summer and sometimes in mid-winter) and atmospheric visibility, which is a momentary condition and impossible to calculate, only possible to statistically estimate. And I am not even beginning to talk about the human observer as another key factor... If we want to strictly adhere to its true (religious) definition, even the best guess will be meaningless without actual observation. In Saudi this is the case with their religious Hijri calendar, they may adjust each month based on official[see endnote] observation. Note: Observation along with some rules (to cover bad weather) define this calendar not calculation. This is not the case in Iran where the best guess of the mentioned official body (regardless of the algorithm they are using) is considered good enough except for Ramadan where again we have the definition based on official observation. Please note that a good calendar software service in an operating system or application should be able to tell you precisely what was the date say 100,000 days ago at a specific location (within the range of validity of the calendar, of course) or what date it estimates to be at a specific location 100,000 days in the future. Naturally, the more confident the future estimate the better, but some calendar systems simply don't permit this by their very definition. I don't know the approach taken by the contractors for the calendar project in FarsiLinux, can someone comment on this? Hooman Mehr [Endnote: Official observer and official observation address the issue of the observer which affects the resulting calendar.] P.S.: Although Hijri calendar (and definition of the prayer times) look very strange and primitive, there is a very good philosophical reason behind it which makes sense once you know it. Do you know the reason or want to know it? On May 17, 2004, at 12:52 AM, Omid K. Rad wrote: On Sun, 16 May 2004, C Bobroff wrote: > > On Sun, 16 May 2004, Hooman Mehr wrote: > > > The lunar Hijri calendar used in Iran is also an official calendar and > > is calculated independent from other Hijri calendars used in other > > islamic countries. It is an important calendar, since it determines > > half of the holidays on our calendar. We also know that it has > > slightly different month lengths than other Hijri calendars. > > Are there any online or downloadable calendars or converters > for the lunar Hijri system used in Iran? I'm only hearing > about this different month lenghts business today... > > -Connie I don't think there is any difference in month lenghts either. This Java applet base on the Calendarical Calculations book is the best online application I've seen for converting dates: http://emr.cs.iit.edu/home/reingold/calendar-book/second-edition/CIIT.html Omid ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Mon, 2004-05-17 at 01:41, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: You are self-conflicting yourself. I define consensus as 100% vote of the talking community, and again I say we have reached a consensus here. Take a poll, then. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Sun, 2004-05-16 at 00:33, C Bobroff wrote: Can you please be sure to mention in the documentation somewhere also about the Shaahanshaahi calendar and how to convert We don't know that. Exact questions are: when exactly did the calendar become official? And when did it cease to be the official calendar? Can you help in that? roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Iranian Calendar
On Sun, 2004-05-16 at 18:15, Omid K. Rad wrote: In Iran we use the Iranian subtype of the Persian calendar, and in Afghanistan the Jalali subtype is used. I don't get you. Afghanistan clearly doesn't use a Jalali subtype. Their current leap year algorithm is synced with the Gregorian system, so it's far from being a Jalali calendar. Fortunately in .NET it is possible to define subtypes for a calendar system provided that they use the same algorithm but differ in day names, month names, date patterns and so on. This is the whole point: the algorithm is different for Iran and Afghanistan. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Sun, 2004-05-16 at 18:56, Hooman Mehr wrote: I think we should avoid solar / lunar designations in the English name to make it more meaningful and less confusing for none-Iranians. I don't agree. One can't reduce confusion by being less specific. People who work on calendars already know that the lunar Islamic calendar is uses different rules in different countries. The Iranian Hejri-e Ghamari calendar is exactly a certain localization of the calendar others have. It's the new name that will create the confusion. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Mon, 2004-05-17 at 11:55, Hooman Mehr wrote: It comes upwith an initial estimate (or best guess) of the *adjusted* calendarwhich is usually only re-adjusted for Ramadan. ... and Shawwal. This pre-adjustedcalendar is not the same as the basic table in MSDN, nor the mostlyobservational Hijri calendar meant by MSDN and common in Saudi Arabia. The Microsoft Hijri base calendar is acutally based on the Kuwaiti one. I guess I saw it on the Wikipedia, but I can find the reference if it proves to be important. Please note that a good calendar software service in an operatingsystem or application should be able to tell you precisely what wasthe date say 100,000 days ago at a specific location (within the rangeof validity of the calendar, of course) or what date it estimates tobe at a specific location 100,000 days in the future. I don't agree. An operating system rarely allows any date calculation for 270 years into the past or the future. Even for Gregorian. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
Roozbeh Pournader wrote: On Mon, 2004-05-17 at 15:39, Ali A Khanban wrote: Shaahanshaahi calendar was introduced in 1355 and abolished in 1357. When exactly? I know that not all of 1357 was known as 2537. In Early 1357 it was abolished. Does it really matter? It is only a historical interest. The important thing is how to convert it. Because, in those two years, many date references were converted to Shaahanshaahi calendar. So, we have some dates like Shahrivar-e 2500 or Mordaad-e 2512 and so on. Of course, it is possible to find the exact date, for example by looking at the archive of Ettela'at or Kayhan newspapers, and see when the date in their title changes. Unfortunately, I don't have access to them at the moment, maybe later. Best -ali- roozbeh -- || Ali Asghar Khanban || ||Research Associate in Department of Computing ||| Imperial College London, London SW7 2BZ, U.K. || Tel: +44 (020) 7594 8241 Fax: +1 (509) 694 0599 ||| [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~khanban ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
Hi, Thank you for the refinements and clarifications. Maybe I've used to the old Mac OS calendar API which used to correctly support dates way before Gregorian calendar existed (even before Christian era). On the other hand, even if you reduce my suggested number to 2000 days, you'll find differences and it won't be unreasonable to expect an OS to support it. On May 17, 2004, at 8:05 PM, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: On Mon, 2004-05-17 at 11:55, Hooman Mehr wrote: It comes upwith an initial estimate (or best guess) of the *adjusted* calendarwhich is usually only re-adjusted for Ramadan. ... and Shawwal. This pre-adjustedcalendar is not the same as the basic table in MSDN, nor the mostlyobservational Hijri calendar meant by MSDN and common in Saudi Arabia. The Microsoft Hijri base calendar is acutally based on the Kuwaiti one. I guess I saw it on the Wikipedia, but I can find the reference if it proves to be important. Please note that a good calendar software service in an operatingsystem or application should be able to tell you precisely what wasthe date say 100,000 days ago at a specific location (within the rangeof validity of the calendar, of course) or what date it estimates tobe at a specific location 100,000 days in the future. I don't agree. An operating system rarely allows any date calculation for 270 years into the past or the future. Even for Gregorian. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Mon, 17 May 2004, Hooman Mehr wrote: P.S.: Although Hijri calendar (and definition of the prayer times) look very strange and primitive, there is a very good philosophical reason behind it which makes sense once you know it. Do you know the reason or want to know it? Yeah, the reason is to synchronize sleeping time of all people, so people like me do not wake up 4PM when all offices close! --behdad behdad.org ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Mon, 17 May 2004, Ali A Khanban wrote: Shaahanshaahi calendar was introduced in 1355 and abolished in 1357. It was simply a map: Add 1180 to Iranian calendar. But is that the official name? I might have just made that up. Abbreviations?? -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
Microsoft Lunar Hijri calendar is based on Calculation of Saudi Arabian Authority and not Kuwait as Saudi Arabia is the only country that relies heavily on LUnar Hijri calendar instead of gregorian in all Arab and Islamic world. In fact SA authority usually request built in customization for practical and Civic( planning holidays,...) for this calendar. From: Roozbeh Pournader [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Hooman Mehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: "'PersianComputing'" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Iranian Calendar Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 20:05:33 +0430 On Mon, 2004-05-17 at 11:55, Hooman Mehr wrote: It comes upwith an initial estimate (or best guess) of the *adjusted* calendarwhich is usually only re-adjusted for Ramadan. ... and Shawwal. This pre-adjustedcalendar is not the same as the basic table in MSDN, nor the mostlyobservational Hijri calendar meant by MSDN and common in Saudi Arabia. The Microsoft Hijri base calendar is acutally based on the Kuwaiti one. I guess I saw it on the Wikipedia, but I can find the reference if it proves to be important. Please note that a good calendar software service in an operatingsystem or application should be able to tell you precisely what wasthe date say 100,000 days ago at a specific location (within the rangeof validity of the calendar, of course) or what date it estimates tobe at a specific location 100,000 days in the future. I don't agree. An operating system rarely allows any date calculation for 270 years into the past or the future. Even for Gregorian. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Mon, 17 May 2004, Ali A Khanban wrote: Of course, it is possible to find the exact date, for example by looking at the archive of Ettela'at or Kayhan newspapers, and see when the date in their title changes. Unfortunately, I don't have access to them at the moment, maybe later. ok, the info is online at Encyclopaedia Iranica: http://www.iranica.com/articlenavigation/index.html search under calendars--Islamic period page 672 (you can't seem to go there directly as they have a pdf file for each page) Here's the relevant part: On 24 Esfand 1354 Sh. / 14 March 1975 the Majles approved a new era based on the supposed year of accession of the first Achaemenid king, Cyrus the Great (559 B.C.); thus, 21 March 1976 became the first day (Nowruz) of the year 2535 in the Shaahanshaahi era. The month names of the Persian solar Hejri calendar were retained wihout change. Official documents and publications were dated according to the new calendar. This caused much confusion and created widespread discontent, particularly among the clergy. Eventually, on 5 Shahrivar 1357 Sh./27 August 1978, the government, in the face of the coming revolution, reverted to the solar Hejri calendar. This calendar is reckoned from 1 Farvardin, 119 days before 1 Moharram of the Arabian lunar year in which the hejra took place. The Julian date corresonding to the first day of the solar Hejri era is 19 March 622. Taqizadeh gives 17 March 622 (1937-39, p. 916), which was apparently the date arrived at by the Persian commission for calendar reform in 1304 Sh./1925. Wow, 3 whole years it lasted! However, must have been a productive 3 years as I do come across publications with the Shahanshahi date now and then. I still think it's worth mention in your documentation. Looks like it was abbreviated with Shin. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Iranian Calendar
On Sun, 15 May 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: So we've reached a consensus on using Iranian Calendar for the term referring to the solar calendar in action in Tehran, right? So we forget about Jalali name, and call it Iranian Calendar, quite like Chinese, Japanese, and other countries. Iranian Calendar is okay IMHO, but I like the Persian Calendar better for the name of the calendar system, since it covers more countries. In Iran we use the Iranian subtype of the Persian calendar, and in Afghanistan the Jalali subtype is used. I don't know about Tajikistan. Fortunately in .NET it is possible to define subtypes for a calendar system provided that they use the same algorithm but differ in day names, month names, date patterns and so on. Omid ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
Hi Behdad, I have a question (targeting you and everybody else working on Persian locale projects such as .Net) The lunar Hijri calendar used in Iran is also an official calendar and is calculated independent from other Hijri calendars used in other islamic countries. It is an important calendar, since it determines half of the holidays on our calendar. We also know that it has slightly different month lengths than other Hijri calendars. Are you going to identify and support that calendar as well? Then what would you call it in English? The answer to this question may affect Iranian Calendar term as well. If you ask me, we can keep Iranian Calendar and call the Hijri calendar Iranian Secondary Calendar or Iranian Religious Calendar or something like that. I think we should avoid solar / lunar designations in the English name to make it more meaningful and less confusing for none-Iranians. With the same logic one may suggest using Iranian Primary Calendar instead of Iranian Calendar to emphasize the fact that more than one official regional calendar exists in Iran. My final verdict? I need to sleep on it for a while. Hooman Mehr On May 15, 2004, at 2:36 PM, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Hi, Just trying to close an item in the long open agenda of the list. So we've reached a consensus on using Iranian Calendar for the term referring to the solar calendar in action in Tehran, right? So we forget about Jalali name, and call it Iranian Calendar, quite like Chinese, Japanese, and other countries. As for the rules, we at FarsiWeb have found enough evidence that the 2820-year periodic calendar of Birashk. We will later release the codes for that and replace our different ports. Please send your comments. Hamed, you are supposed to work on this, right? Thanks, --behdad behdad.org ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Iranian Calendar
On Sun, 16 May 2004, Omid K. Rad wrote: On Sun, 15 May 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: So we've reached a consensus on using Iranian Calendar for the term referring to the solar calendar in action in Tehran, right? So we forget about Jalali name, and call it Iranian Calendar, quite like Chinese, Japanese, and other countries. Iranian Calendar is okay IMHO, but I like the Persian Calendar better for the name of the calendar system, since it covers more countries. In Iran we use the Iranian subtype of the Persian calendar, and in Afghanistan the Jalali subtype is used. I don't know about Tajikistan. Fortunately in .NET it is possible to define subtypes for a calendar system provided that they use the same algorithm but differ in day names, month names, date patterns and so on. But the Iranian and Afghan Calendars do not use the same algorithm. The Afghan algorithm is more or less the Gregorian one... Just keep in mind, the whole complexity of the Persian Calendars is the leap-year calculation. When Iran and Afghanistan have two completely different leap-year calculation algorithms, I see absolutely no point in merging them and then sub-typing... Omid --behdad behdad.org ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
Hi Hooman, Thanks for the question. I go with Iranian Islamic Calendar. I think Primary/Secondary and Solar/Lunar are both very bad names. And Islamic makes sense since that's what this calendar is called in English, so ours is the *Iranian* Islamic Calendar. And then Iranian Calendar and Iranian Islamic Calendar should be clear enough that which one's primary and which secondary. behdad On Sun, 16 May 2004, Hooman Mehr wrote: Hi Behdad, I have a question (targeting you and everybody else working on Persian locale projects such as .Net) The lunar Hijri calendar used in Iran is also an official calendar and is calculated independent from other Hijri calendars used in other islamic countries. It is an important calendar, since it determines half of the holidays on our calendar. We also know that it has slightly different month lengths than other Hijri calendars. Are you going to identify and support that calendar as well? Then what would you call it in English? The answer to this question may affect Iranian Calendar term as well. If you ask me, we can keep Iranian Calendar and call the Hijri calendar Iranian Secondary Calendar or Iranian Religious Calendar or something like that. I think we should avoid solar / lunar designations in the English name to make it more meaningful and less confusing for none-Iranians. With the same logic one may suggest using Iranian Primary Calendar instead of Iranian Calendar to emphasize the fact that more than one official regional calendar exists in Iran. My final verdict? I need to sleep on it for a while. Hooman Mehr On May 15, 2004, at 2:36 PM, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Hi, Just trying to close an item in the long open agenda of the list. So we've reached a consensus on using Iranian Calendar for the term referring to the solar calendar in action in Tehran, right? So we forget about Jalali name, and call it Iranian Calendar, quite like Chinese, Japanese, and other countries. As for the rules, we at FarsiWeb have found enough evidence that the 2820-year periodic calendar of Birashk. We will later release the codes for that and replace our different ports. Please send your comments. Hamed, you are supposed to work on this, right? Thanks, --behdad behdad.org ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing --behdad behdad.org ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Sun, 16 May 2004, Hooman Mehr wrote: The lunar Hijri calendar used in Iran is also an official calendar and is calculated independent from other Hijri calendars used in other islamic countries. It is an important calendar, since it determines half of the holidays on our calendar. We also know that it has slightly different month lengths than other Hijri calendars. Are there any online or downloadable calendars or converters for the lunar Hijri system used in Iran? I'm only hearing about this different month lenghts business today... -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Iranian Calendar
Title: Message On Sun, 16 May 2004, C Bobroff wrote: On Sun, 16 May 2004, Hooman Mehr wrote: The lunar Hijri calendar used in Iran is also an official calendar and is calculated independent from other Hijri calendars used in other islamic countries. It is an important calendar, since it determines half of the holidays on our calendar. We also know that it has slightly different month lengths than other Hijri calendars. Are there any online or downloadable calendars or converters for the lunar Hijri system used in Iran? I'm only hearing about this different month lenghts business today... -ConnieI don't think there is any difference in month lenghts either. This Java applet base on the Calendarical Calculations book is the best online application I've seen for converting dates:http://emr.cs.iit.edu/home/reingold/calendar-book/second-edition/CIIT.html Omid ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Iranian Calendar
On Sun, 16 May 2004, Omid K. Rad wrote: Iranian Calendar is okay IMHO, but I like the Persian Calendar better for the name of the calendar system, since it covers more countries. In Iran we use the Iranian subtype of the Persian calendar, and in Afghanistan the Jalali subtype is used. I don't know about Tajikistan. Omid, I still vote for Iranian Calendar because within that huge geographic expanse, there are various non-Persian speaking groups. Iranian is a little more broader term with a geographic sense as well. It is also used by linguists, for example to describe dialects spoken outside the borders of modern Iran to differentiate between the related Indian subset of Indo-Iranian. Iranian is also not perfect, but as you say, you can subset your .NET categories. I'm perhaps reacting to more of the fallout from this Farsi vs. Persian mess. One hears even more improvements/abuses of Persian in the English language, as in, for example: Daddy, look over there. There's some Persians speaking Farsi! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Iranian Calendar
On Sun, 16 May 2004, C Bobroff wrote: On Sun, 16 May 2004, Omid K. Rad wrote: Iranian Calendar is okay IMHO, but I like the Persian Calendar better for the name of the calendar system, since it covers more countries. In Iran we use the Iranian subtype of the Persian calendar, and in Afghanistan the Jalali subtype is used. I don't know about Tajikistan. Omid, I still vote for Iranian Calendar because within that huge geographic expanse, there are various non-Persian speaking groups. Iranian is a little more broader term with a geographic sense as well. It is also used by linguists, for example to describe dialects spoken outside the borders of modern Iran to differentiate between the related Indian subset of Indo-Iranian. Iranian is also not perfect, but as you say, you can subset your .NET categories. Would you please tell me why Iranian is not perfect? I'm perhaps reacting to more of the fallout from this Farsi vs. Persian mess. One hears even more improvements/abuses of Persian in the English language, as in, for example: Daddy, look over there. There's some Persians speaking Farsi! : -Connie --behdad behdad.org ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Sat, 15 May 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: On Sat, 2004-05-15 at 14:36, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Just trying to close an item in the long open agenda of the list. So we've reached a consensus on using Iranian Calendar for the term referring to the solar calendar in action in Tehran, right? I don't know. I know that we can't reach consensus on other things, and I also know that consensus doesn't matter that much here. As people define consensus, it is like at least 75% of the talking part of the community. Here, most of the community don't talk at all, and I'm sure that if you take a poll, from those who vote some will still insist on Jalali, or Solar Islamic, or Hejri-e Khorshidi, or Persian. They will mention personal preference if you ask the reason. ;) You are self-conflicting yourself. I define consensus as 100% vote of the talking community, and again I say we have reached a consensus here. What we should look for, is clear and reasonable objection. There hasn't been any such objection for Iranian calendar. As for the rules, we at FarsiWeb have found enough evidence that the 2820-year periodic calendar of Birashk. I didn't get you. Would you please reword? Oops, I close the sentence in the middle. I just meant that 2820-Birashk is the best system to implement. --behdad behdad.org ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Sat, 15 May 2004, Hamed Malek wrote: On Sat, 2004-05-15 at 14:36, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Hi, Just trying to close an item in the long open agenda of the list. So we've reached a consensus on using Iranian Calendar for the term referring to the solar calendar in action in Tehran, right? So we forget about Jalali name, and call it Iranian Calendar, quite like Chinese, Japanese, and other countries. As for the rules, we at FarsiWeb have found enough evidence that the 2820-year periodic calendar of Birashk. We will later release the codes for that and replace our different ports. Please send your comments. Hamed, you are supposed to work on this, right? Yes. And I think except the original code, we can prepare GUI for it in some desktop environments like GNOME. Sure, the following ports are expected. I have put in parantheses the status of the old Jalali code in every platform: * C (released on farsiweb.info) * PalmOS (released on farsiweb.info) * PocketPC (released on farsiweb.info) * Win32 (released on farsiweb.info) * PHP (released on farsiweb.info and iranphp.net) * Perl (in CPAN) * Java (I did, never released due to license problems) * ICU (Roozbeh should have something) * JavaScript (never released for no reason, but accessible from my weblog source) * .NET (someone sent us, never released due to license problems) * GNOME (someone sent us, never released for no reason) * TeX (released in FarsiTeX) * LaTeX (Roozbeh should have) * libical (not done) People, any other requests? Hamed I will appreciate if you go on and do the ports too :-). --behdad behdad.org ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Sat, 15 May 2004, C Bobroff wrote: Can you please be sure to mention in the documentation somewhere also about the Shaahanshaahi calendar and how to convert and what's its official name was and abbreviations, if any? That will be nice if that system also makes its way into online conversion tools. It's a real problem in places like Academic libraries when someone is, for example told to catalog a book and there is something like 2536 which appears to be a date, yet there is often no abbreviation or calendar designation and the poor cataloger has to run around looking for an expert and waste a lot of time. Well, Hamed, you take care of this too, right? :). BTW, the rule is simply that 2535 maps to 1355 IIRC, or was it 1350? So a simple shift is enough. -Connie --behdad behdad.org ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Iranian Calendar
Well, this calendar is used in Iran, is computed with Iranian rules. Afghan calendar is completely different. Something no body said is the Tajik people. I've heard they use the same calendar, is it right? On Sun, 16 May 2004, C Bobroff wrote: On Sun, 16 May 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Would you please tell me why Iranian is not perfect? Because it's hard to please everyone at all times. Maybe some Baluchi tribesman won't appreciate being lumped with Iranian. Maybe someone from Afghanistan, not having heard this discussion and how hard it is to find a name will say, Oh, so those guys at Sharif think we are now a subset of Iran, eh? (I think that's why Omid was going with Persian!) And then there are the people who will also use this .Net data who know nothing about the region at all and all these names are a big blur... There is Iranian in the modern sense and then there is the broader, historic Iranian and someone who thinks the naming decision was made carelessly and without taking cultural sensitivites in mind, will find some way to make a fuss. Whatever you choose, better put a lengthy footnote and disclaimer. That said, I truly do think Iranian is best. Daddy, look over there. There's some Persians speaking Farsi! : I thought you'd like that! -Connie --behdad behdad.org ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Iranian Calendar
On Sun, 16 May 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Something no body said is the Tajik people. I've heard they use the same calendar, is it right? Hang on a few days. I'll ask. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Iranian Calendar
On Sun, 16 May 2004, Omid K. Rad wrote: http://emr.cs.iit.edu/home/reingold/calendar-book/second-edition/CIIT.ht ml Thanks. I took a look. Perhaps the Islamic calendars should provide the time as well as the date and also say which time zone/region the calendar is referring to. I guess this Calendar topic is quite complex! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
Hi Behdad, Very good. Agreed to Iranian Calendar and Iranian Islamic Calendar. Hooman On May 17, 2004, at 12:01 AM, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Hi Hooman, Thanks for the question. I go with Iranian Islamic Calendar. I think Primary/Secondary and Solar/Lunar are both very bad names. And Islamic makes sense since that's what this calendar is called in English, so ours is the *Iranian* Islamic Calendar. And then Iranian Calendar and Iranian Islamic Calendar should be clear enough that which one's primary and which secondary. behdad On Sun, 16 May 2004, Hooman Mehr wrote: Hi Behdad, I have a question (targeting you and everybody else working on Persian locale projects such as .Net) The lunar Hijri calendar used in Iran is also an official calendar and is calculated independent from other Hijri calendars used in other islamic countries. It is an important calendar, since it determines half of the holidays on our calendar. We also know that it has slightly different month lengths than other Hijri calendars. Are you going to identify and support that calendar as well? Then what would you call it in English? The answer to this question may affect Iranian Calendar term as well. If you ask me, we can keep Iranian Calendar and call the Hijri calendar Iranian Secondary Calendar or Iranian Religious Calendar or something like that. I think we should avoid solar / lunar designations in the English name to make it more meaningful and less confusing for none-Iranians. With the same logic one may suggest using Iranian Primary Calendar instead of Iranian Calendar to emphasize the fact that more than one official regional calendar exists in Iran. My final verdict? I need to sleep on it for a while. Hooman Mehr On May 15, 2004, at 2:36 PM, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Hi, Just trying to close an item in the long open agenda of the list. So we've reached a consensus on using Iranian Calendar for the term referring to the solar calendar in action in Tehran, right? So we forget about Jalali name, and call it Iranian Calendar, quite like Chinese, Japanese, and other countries. As for the rules, we at FarsiWeb have found enough evidence that the 2820-year periodic calendar of Birashk. We will later release the codes for that and replace our different ports. Please send your comments. Hamed, you are supposed to work on this, right? Thanks, --behdad behdad.org ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing --behdad behdad.org ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Sat, 15 May 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: So we've reached a consensus on using Iranian Calendar for the term referring to the solar calendar in action in Tehran, right? Iranian Calendar does sound like the best choice. Can you please be sure to mention in the documentation somewhere also about the Shaahanshaahi calendar and how to convert and what's its official name was and abbreviations, if any? That will be nice if that system also makes its way into online conversion tools. It's a real problem in places like Academic libraries when someone is, for example told to catalog a book and there is something like 2536 which appears to be a date, yet there is often no abbreviation or calendar designation and the poor cataloger has to run around looking for an expert and waste a lot of time. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
