Shepard Smith does a 'This Day In History' on FOX News most every day.
Today was the 125th anniversary of the coin operated Phonograph.
A photo of a group of people surrounding a Class M listening through hearing
tubes from a gallery manifold was shown.
While not accurate to date and type of
I have two copies of an 1899 The Talking Machine catalogue that I assume to be
reprints.
There is a copy on eBay from Al Gerichten's collection.
How does one know an original from a copy?
The eBay number is 370972229899 The current bid seems way too high.
Who reprinted these?
It was a nice
Seasons Greetings:
For only $1,000 you can own an Edison Phonograph No.6 now on eBay! How some
sellers can offer things without knowing a thing about them is beyond me. This
Amberola 30 has the very rare 'oil spout funnel' horn. It would be funny but
this seller really thinks the thing is
Greetings Ron:
That particular seller takes machines apart and sells the parts separately. I
am personally against parting out a working machine so I would not purchase it.
That being said, the motor has a few issues. In addition to those stated in
the listing, the belt idler tension
Oops, the subject date should have been 1910 but my antique fingers hiccupped.
On all of the fine reprints from Allen I believe somewhere there is a
'reprinted by...' so we know it was a quality reprint from him.
The difference from the 1910 Form 1865 original and the reprint is the wood
Greetings John:
From everything I see, the reproducer screams 'Someone's Kitchen Table
Experiment'. I have seen similar experiments to 'improve' an Edison
reproducer and have a couple in my collection. In the mind of this guy who
made your example, the weight was able to move so the force
Hi again John:
Yes, you are correct, the dome will be very stiff and not be pliant at all.
This means all of the flexure has to be on the metal between the dome and the
outside diameter. Auto makers use curves to stiffen the bodies in the same
manner as this dome diaphragm.
I tend not to
The highest Amberola 30 I recorded is just below 344000. The highest Amberola
50 I have recorded is just over 43000. The highest Amberola 75 in my data mine
is just over 21000. So, Steve Medved's reproducer number is in the ballpark
for production figures...
Regards to all,
Al
-Original Message-
From: bruce78rpm bruce78...@comcast.net
To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:05 pm
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Amberola 75 serial numbers
Do you have the same information on the Amberola V ? Mine is serial number 845
.
Greetings
I would have to agree with Steve Medved. Very likely 100 or less were made of
each model, the 60 and the 80. Steve has seen more of them than I have. If I
had research priveledges with the Site the 60 and 80 would be something to look
into. I don't believe they had their own manuals but
While the term 'potmetal' was used for many low melting point alloys the modern
name for the potmetal we are familiar with is 'die cast zinc.' Zinc is
actually a wonderful metal to cast with a melting point of 419.53 °C or 787.15
°F. This is low enough so that a mold can easily be made of
Thanks Steve, it is always fun to attend the Medved University on line
Reproducers 101 course...
Kindest regards,
Al
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Hi Tom:
I own 5 Model R Reproducers and have never seen a press fit. They all have had
the three screws. I guess we will have to wait for Steve Medved to chime in
with his findings.
As for the low volume, the reproducer should be taken apart and serviced.
Sometimes the diaphragm will
Hello Chuck:
Yes, this is an ICS Language Edison machine. The speed control on the Standard
was removed with the end of the Model A *except* for the ICS machines which
played at 90 RPM so the records would play for a longer time at the expense of
sound quality. You had to dial the speed
1. What year was the reproducer in the photo made?
Steve, is that a trick question? I think that O was put together from parts in
2013.
2. What is unusual about the reproducer in the photo?
The serial number is from the R and S Reproducers. The weight has the large O
which was later.
Beware the current listing of a branded case Gem by a California seller. The
machine first appeared in a listing showing the serial number to be over 105000
which meant it was a later Gem A. It has a Model C Reproducer in the late
larger diameter carriage that would be too large for the
This one should win some sort of prize for the most effort put into a
crapophone...
111077669570
is the eBay item number and it has already been pulled.
The Orthophonic sound box and arm driving the old PA speaker bell must be a
wonder.
Too bad there were no attached audio tracks.
Al
I sent this off to the seller and got the same answer as you, Peter:
Dear peachland250,
A friendly note, the machine you are breaking up is one of only 1,200 Amberola
III machines made. The few remaining examples have historically been worth more
than the parts since collectors value the
It is with great sadness that I note the death of a fine and rare example of an
Amberola III. The III wasn't even sick. It played until the bitter end. It's
death came at the hands of someone on eBay who decided to part it out. The
cabinet, rear inspection door, motor, Diamond A
OK, was it something I said?
There has been only 1 posting since last Friday to my email address from
Phono-L.
My own posting has not shown up either.
Have I been excommunicated? Is it because I only own a Victor II and a VTLA
with the rest being just Edison machines? Oops, I forgot I
If this is a duplicate posting to some, sorry about that. It did not come
through on my phono-l messages even though it was sent last night. I assume
the server did not pass it on. Here is what I posted:
~~
Welcome Chuck, I am
Many great comments were made while I was away this weekend.
As they say, one picture is worth a thousand words. Your motor is a sewing
machine motor. I had assumed that the Ferrygraph used an induction motor. The
sewing machine motor is common and can be found on eBay with some frequency.
Induction motors that lack torque can usually be traced to an open field coil
or an open armature loop. A shorted turn will eat torque but the motor will
let you know by getting hot. How about a photo of the motor? Most good motor
shops can fix anything from fractional horsepower to 100 HP.
Hi Steve:
The Edison Standard line ended just above serial number 82. At the end of
production the Standard E with either the Diamond B or N was stamped Model G...
BUT this was only a very few machines and that is why they are so rare. The
Standard E 4 minute only machine with the
Thanks Jeff:
The Standard Model F was configured with the small diameter horizontal
carriage. Edison didn't mess around with it and the 10 panel black #10 Cygnet,
the Model S Reproducer, 2/4 minute gears were the normal form in which the F
left the factory. The first Fs had the D x'ed out
What Triumph cabinet does it have? If it is a banner Triumph Model A then I
would definitely NOT drill holes into one of these cabinets. The later raised
panel with a thicker wood is better suited from a material strength viewpoint.
What reproducer does it have? A Model O in a horizontal
Thank you Steve, to me this is definitely NOT boring. It helps those of us
interested in telling the Edison story in a more complete way to see trends and
get a better picture of the closing days to the outside horn Edison cylinder
machines. Please keep up the great work.
Al
Hi Brad, Al here:
Yes that bar is for an Edison 'N' reproducer and the little L shaped piece is
the retainer for the spring that surrounds the stylus bar link on some Model Ns
and Model Ls. Steve will have the info on which ones by serial.
Merry Christmas to all,
Al
Thanks Steve:
For some reason I thought you were away and attempted a quick answer to Brad.
I knew you would have a veritable encyclopedia on the stylus and spring
variants.
BTW - the phono-l server seems to be way slow this evening. Must be a governor
problem.
Merry Christmas to you,
Al
Hi Steve:
My notes show Home Model B #217170 and earlier having the full black banner
varnish transfer. The first Home with the simple Edison script I have a note
on is #217743. After that all are script. One must ignore machines that are
anomalies due to cabinet swaps and refinishing with
Hello Michael:
You will find the red banner range of the Model A 'long case' Home to be from
the introduction of the 'New Cabinet' style to H52234 which is the highest I
have confirmed. By H52251 the black banner has been used and the red is
history.
I have seen a seller on eBay with a
Greetings Steve:
I just returned from my Asia cruise and spotted your question. The Gem went
through a number of mechanical variations as well as esthetic ones from the
caseless version through the last of the keywound Model As. The carriages are
not interchangeable and the feedscrews with
They are more scarce since they were made in smaller numbers than the #10
Cygnet. This should translate to higher prices with one caveat. The #11 was
really for the Triumph D2. You could put it on an E, F, or G Triumph if you
didn't have the original Music Master Wood Cygnet Horn. When
The #11 sold for $268.88 and was repainted on the inside via spray can. It had
some minor damage but was still presentable.
The low price is no surprise. Our national economy has not gotten on a
recovery track yet. Right now on eBay there is a nice Triumph Model E with O
Reproducer and
Greetings Edward:
I do all my own restorations. When it comes to anything electronic, the first
thing you need to know is the model number and serial number. From that you
can get to step 2, finding a schematic diagram. I would recommend Peter Wall
in San Francisco but he is a long way
I enquired with the Edison Site about 2 years ago and got turned down flat.
Oddly, I am not a paper collector in the true since of the word so I am a zero
threat. Nor have I ever sold anything (ask my wife). My idea is that a
photocopy on 100% cotton rag bond paper is worth more than an
I humbly say thank you to those who sent me a compliment.
This week on eBay there were several reasons why I wrote my Master Thesis on
Edison machines then worked with George Frow to do the book.
Item 1 was a rare 200 thread per inch feedscrew and record mandrel from an M
electric that
Hi Steve:
My notes differ from the numbers you had. I have Standard S#51888 as having
clips but by S#52180 shipped without them but having the set screw.
I have often said that Edison machines were assembled but not on a perfectly
inline assembly line. Early parts at the bottom of a parts
Hi Steve:
The highest number Model N Reproducer in a Gem E that I know of is 67830. It
is a domed one with the large N on the fishtail weight.
Hope that helps...
Al
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Hi Guys!
I just got back from one week in Boston and a 5 week cruise to Europe so am
answering this posting late.
Yes, that is Leah Burt's copy and I do hope she is OK. She was a great help.
I had trouble selling the book at $20 which was a small loss on each copy. I
cannot imagine anyone
When it comes to records I am a total idiot. I had a new collector ask me
about this Blue Amberol:
blue amberol 11801 Ele Pame Sta Xena by G.N. Helmis
Can anyone shed light on this one? Is it rare? He wants to know if it is
valuable? Common or not?
Thanks for any help,
Al
Dear Ron:
Thank you for the kind words. When I started collecting there was only the
Read - Welch book, From Tinfoil to Stereo. Now we have a wealth of information
from many fine authors and researchers. The collector society groups have
regularly turned out some very respectable research
The 'odorless' turpentine is a petroleum derivative. When I am making my
secret recipe belt dressing to keep a new leather belt from slipping and
protect it for the next 100 years, I use real turpentine as the carrier
solvent. The odor actually smells like 'old phonograph' so my wife puts a
Has anybody bought the $6,666.66 Edison Standard B in China yet? Listing #
140750878007 . What is really funny is the way the YouTube video shows the guy
attempting to get the machine to play. I suspect the people who put listings
like this are really hoping for one of the suckers born every
Hi John:
When it comes to Diamond Disc machines there are many factors that sometimes
come together for a result that doesn't make sense. The A-200 Queen Anne's
introduction in 1912 was somewhat hurried and it was supposed to have a wood
grained horn to match the cabinet finish. The some of
Greetings Doctor:
I am not sure that 'correct' is a word to apply to minor variations on Edison
machines. The machines were assembled from parts and shipped as fast as they
could. Variations from suppliers and from their own factory mechanisms were to
be expected.
The B-60 was a 1913-14
One quick and easy way to tell if the Amberola had a grille cloth or not is to
see if the horn is wood grained. The Amberola IA, IB, III, IV, V, IV, VIII,
and X series of Diamond Amberolas had wood grained horns so they did not need
to have grille cloth to disguise the internal horn. When the
I have been in contact with the radio tube guy with the 'reddish' Gem B. He
was not aware of what it was and has emailed me that he will pull the listing.
I also told him that the machine could not possibly work well with the
halfnut and bar missing from the rear of the carriage. It would
Greetings Allen:
Sorry, this is yet another case of my fingers being faster than my ancient
brain.
No, Class M topworks in the 9000 range is what I meant to say.
The Amet topworks is identical to Class M topworks in the 9000s range that I
have seen.
The highest Class M topworks with the
OK, so now FeeBay has an Amet motor machine and I would like to get full sized
shots of the machine; but, the only way I can view things is with their stupid
magnifier box. Does anyone on this list know how to get full sized shots
without the zoom box cropping? This is just one more annoying
Thanks everyone, I have tried three different browsers. The full screen image
still does not come through. A larger image does appear on Firefox but it is
still only one quarter size. I'd like the full screen jpg ! ! !
I will give George Glastis a call this evening and let him talk me
Thank you, I knew one of the experts on this list would recognize the motor.
Regards,
Al
-Original Message-
From: Home ander...@tampabay.rr.com
To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Thu, Mar 15, 2012 8:07 pm
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Electric Phono Motor on eBay -
There is an interesting early electric phonograph motor on eBay.
I believe it might be from a lamp phonograph but which one?
It is 380419455433 and seems to be going cheap.
Any Ideas?
Thanks,
Al
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Greetings Ron:
I don't have my notes in front of me so this is coming out of my senile old
memory stored in the few gray cells I have left.
Edison went to the pin lift in the Model B later machines, the Model C, and the
first of the Model D. Then the later D machines, the E, and the F went
The seller is highly suspect in all of this. I sent him/her an email about the
belt tension pulley and have not heard back. What I find most enlightening is
that he/she states they went to ACE Hardware which has replacement belts for $7
(but didn't buy one) and leaves it to the buyer of this
When George and I did the 1976 Edison cylinder phonograph book the printer
missed some text. I don't think it appeared when George did the expanded
Companion book.
The Model A Standard used a pin crank engagement. The motor was held *up
against* the bedplate with screws through rubber
I have a photocopy of the repair manual for the electric motors up to 1918.
It indicates there were some 7 electric motors in the Business Phonograph from
the bipolar open frame one to the date of the manual. I can only imagine what
Edison had to say about the reproducers and recorders or
Did anyone on this list win the Edison Business Phonograph manuals that closed
on eBay this week?
If so, would you consider photocopying them for $100 plus copy fees?
If anyone has originals for sale that too would be of interest to me.
I can see how the information in these would be helpful
290665921104
This was the eBay number. Somebody got a treasure trove of Ediphone repair
manuals.
Al
-Original Message-
From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com
To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org
Sent: Sat, Feb 11, 2012 4:45 pm
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Ediphone Repair Manuals
Hi again Scott:
Initially ICS did advertise their Standard As and Bs as Double Service for
Every Phonograph, Amusement and Instruction. While the records continued to
be black wax 2 minute records this made sense. A few turns of the governor
speed knob and you could play both records.
I have a lot of data on Edison's that I didn't have when George and I did the
first cylinder phonographs book. Now I have a ton of data showing things that
happened affecting production nuances. The Edison Standards ended production
with a serial just above 82. Virtually all of the last
Nice machine Scott, what is the serial number? I would bet it is up above
79. Am I correct?
That is a clean original horn also. That was a great machine to start your
collection.
Regards,
Al
-Original Message-
From: Scott Colgrove scott.colgr...@gmail.com
To: phono-l
Hi Steve:
Yes, toward the very end of the Standard machines Edison made ICS Model Ds that
were missing the 4 minute gears and had the speed control knob on top the
bedplate. Some had the D X'd out with a C stamped in but most were just left
with the D letter in the Model box on the patent
Greetings Scott:
The last 1000 bedplates were the long cast ones so no top grille would be
needed. It is the long casting that makes a B-VIII... a B-VIII ! ! !
The Fireside motor was not changed, nor the cabinet, or horn. If you find a
B-VIII with the removable top grille then it is
Greetings Steve:
Only about 1000 B-VIII machines were sold. They did continue the serial
numbers of the VIII. I surmise that they were introduced in October of 1914
and of course the factory fire in December 1914 stopped production of that
model. Serials typical of the B-VIII range from
Greetings Everyone:
I have had a somewhat negative interaction with eBay seller eschalpin who is
selling a Gem 2 - 4 minute conversion gearing. He claims the unit is complete.
I asked how you change the gearing speeds and he told me not to send him
anymore emails. I believe the 'complete'
Greetings everyone:
I work on pipe organs and get the best leather there is () from a pipe
organ specialty company *but* Tandy or a local leather supply would also have
good leather. The leather made for purse straps that has a low stretch factor
should be fine. Ask the leather
I would like to publically thank Mike Tucker for enlightening me. I have only
had to work with the feedscrews on my very early machines and never looked
closely at the later feedscrews. Mike suggested I get a USB microscope for my
computer. It arrived last week and I began to look over
Neoprene, which is the generic brand name for chloroprene, has a life of 15
years according to NASA specs. But, those specs are for non-flexing O rings
under compression and not exposed to air. I suspect a neoprene belt would do a
great job and not have the problem a leather belt with a
Rich, give me a few days since virtually all of my machines are in storage. I
will attempt to look at those two machines to see what I find.
Al
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Please post the Edison Models. There is a big difference between an Amberola
30 and an Eclipse. Specialist collectors will often buy a complete collection
to get one item them trade off the machines they are not interested in.
Thanks,
Al
___
I just got off the phone with Dwayne of Wyatt's Musical Americana. He is out
of the Triumph halfnuts. His source was the late Elmer Jones, a first rate
machinist and all around great guy. Elmer made the halfnuts with the 45º
buttress threads. I am going to make a few other calls to known
This is well known to car restorers and has been used on iron or steel for
years.
Sodium hydroxide will also work. Sodium hydroxide is Drano but without the
aluminum flakes that would mess up the process. Sodium hydroxide is
commonly called lye and eye protection is advised. It works a bit
We must also note that Edison provided the dealers with a DD record of a
single pitch and a pitch pipe or tuning fork. The fork or pitch pipe were
made to sound then the record was played at the same time. When the sound quit
beating and both pitches were identical the speed was 80 rpm.
You can plate nickel over brass directly since brass is a mixture of copper and
tin.
Does that help?
Al
Hmmm, Thought you could plate nickel right over copper. Drat.
Ron L
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The pot metal we see is today called a die cast zinc part. In Edison's day
a zinc alloy was used for the 'pot metal' but there was no set formula or
even the knowledge of how a small amount of lead or sulfur could cause later
swelling. The process is called 'intergranular crystal growth' or
I sure hope that Lee Kirk is still with us. I have one of his mandrel bearing
tools and it works great. I have also made a small 'fly cutter' with centering
jig that does the same thing. Lee was making new Orthophonic diaphragms as I
recall. He is is a kind person and a true friend to
In a message dated 7/4/2011 8:56:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
rich-m...@octoxol.com writes:
Something tells me you will find both depending on vintage.
That would not surprise me. I have learned *never* to say Edison never
did that.
Unfortunately the optical comparator I use belongs to the
From tinfoil phonographs to light bulbs, Edison made things that were
practical and worked.
If one does not realize the difficulty of Edison's inventions then one has
not attempted to duplicate them. Has anyone ever played with a reproduction
Bell telephone? Mine required shouting so loud
G'day Mike:
Very interesting but the M feedscrew I had to duplicate was examined under an
optical comparator and there was no doubt the thread of the original 1892 part
was a 45º buttress thread. The depth of the thread is only 0.007 so the lathe
setup is crucial. I will have to check the
For those of us who went to the museum before it was dumbed down, the place was
magical. The last time I was there they had an M electric out in the open with
no glass around it and sitting in a dark corner. Parts had been picked off of
it. I desperately need a brush door plate for an M and
Thanks George, I knew this list would have an expert on the E.M.Ginn Expert
and I am glad it was you. I bid on the sound head but was hoping to get it
only to study it and learn from it. I theorize that the diaphragm has a
great range of compliance and acts almost like a piston pumping
Does anyone have an idea of what an E. M. Ginn Expert reproducer is worth?
There is one on eBay, 110705835694. I have seen these on machines but
never one by itself.
Thanks for all replies,
Al
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My copy arrived yesterday. It is a very nice presentation.
Thank you John ! ! !
Al
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How much would a nice working Eclipse sell in this market?
Hello Al,
I am probably NOT the person to address this. My 2 cents worth follows:
There is no doubt this phonograph market is way down. The most I have seen
an Eclipse go for was $32,000. Even the conglomeration machines made
Hi Bill,
The coin trip hole in front of the straightedge is the big clue that it was an
Eclipse.
The Alva had a curved down edge bedplate (shared with the Idelia) and 3
electric posts not 2 of the Eclipse.
The Alva's 3 posts were for AC, DC, and Common. The Alva had the Aluminum
'box' Edison
What worries me is that the buyer has a low rating and may not know what he or
she has won.
I contacted the seller and told the seller what the item was after the sale was
over. I did tell him he could have doubled his final bid if he had not called
the item an Edison Record Player! He has
This is the works from an Edison Eclipse coin op. The motor is the
*correct*bipolar motor and not one of the Econowatt Business Phonograph swap
ins that are the norm. All you need to do with this one is drop it into the
correct cabinet with coin drop box and trip. The extra hole in front of
The Model D Gems are not uncommon but one in perfect shape is scarce at
best. The 2 and 4 minute Gem D is a good machine but the K Reproducer has
issues of its own and must be in great shape for best sound reproduction. The
very rare Gem Model E has the larger diaphragm N Reproducer which
You can always get money, the Federal Government is printing 4 billion new
dollars a day. So, if you see a phonograph that grabs you, BUY IT. To
complete my collection I have paid way too much on a couple of machines and
have
never been offered them again.
Firebottles great photography of
Jim, thank you for the compliment.
My Masters Thesis on the Edison Models was finished when George Frow came out
with the first 'guide.'
I contacted George about putting the two together and the rest is ancient
history. BUT, you did read my mind.
My original intent was to arm collectors with
Steve, you are correct. For those on the list who have not followed past posts
by Steve or myself:
The contact area of the 'ball stylus' on the record groove surface is greater
than the 'doorknob' shape of the C stylus. The weight spread over a larger
area of the wax by the ball is more
Greetings Dave:
I actually don't know the Pittsburgh Phonograph Pirate's name. Whenever I have
tried gently to enlighten him he responds with nasty responses telling me I
don't know what I am talking about. Luckily he has never had anything I need
for my collection.
When I started
A short answer to a recent list comment:
Many Class M restorations miss a few points.
The governors should have a shunt resistance across it so the current
modulation by the governor brush is reduced.
And that is just the starting point to getting things adjusted correctly.
Al
I noted with a chuckle that the seller states the triple spring motor is
strong. Should anyone tell him the Opera was only a 2 spring machine?
IMHO - As for the Opera being a low number, it really doesn't matter with
the later Edison machines. They had few variations and a decent survival
Warning, a Frick's Freak Edison Model C Reproducer is on eBay now. Karl Frick
would 'modify' your original reproducer to play both 2 and 4 minute cylinders
with a 'dual speed stylus'. He would remove your original 2 minute or 4 minute
stylus out of your C or H reproducer and replace it with
Hello again Gabriel:
Your serial number puts the machine just a few hundred below the
introduction of the Triumph. The motor number is correct for that machine.
All good
news since the Speed Control Knob was standardized by this time so there
should be no problem locating the correct
Greetings Gabriel:
It is difficult to address your problems without examining the phonograph.
What is the serial number of the Triton springmotor? What is the serial
number of the machine? There were different threads used early on. When the
speed control knob gained the pointer and the
Greetings Harvey:
The solid brass mandrels were on the early M and E electric machines. They
were press fit onto the steel mandrel shaft. Even in those days solid brass
of that diameter was expensive so few are found to be solid after 1896. As
the M topworks was adapted for the Springmotor
Are you asking about the solid brass mandrel, the hollow unplated brass
mandrel, the plated thick wall brass mandrel, or the thin drawn brass nickel
plated mandrel?
Regards to all,
Al
-Original Message-
From: harvey kravitz harveykrav...@yahoo.com
To: Antique Phonograph List
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