Malcolm, et al --
...and then Malcolm said...
%
...
%
% Opera 7.23 on windows and reading this as a newsgroup, the reply goes to
% the group, as I would expect.
Aha! I think I see the cause of some of the confusion.
Many people might expect a mailing list to behave as a newsgroup, but it
On Thu, 27 Nov 2003, David T-G wrote:
Many people might expect a mailing list to behave as a newsgroup,
but it isn't and so it won't.
Having read this thread, must say I wonder where is this
world is going when people who consider themselves
coders are confused about
Just to add an authoritative answer here. Mucking up the reply-to header
is simply wrong. I don't really care what arguments you come up with, it
makes no technical sense. The list has been configured this way for years
and years and believe me, it is the safest and most flexible
configuration.
On Wednesday 26 November 2003 04:55, Glenn E. Sieb wrote:
From: Eugene Lee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
If you would stop using M$ Outlook and switch to a better
mail client that supports mailing lists, your problem would be solved.
Amusing--I've used Eudora.. I've used Mozilla.. I've used
What's the problem with the Reply All button?
Which of the following words you just don't
understand: *some mail clients (eg yahoo) do not have
a Reply All button?
__
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
--
PHP
On Wednesday 26 November 2003 04:56, Chris W. Parker wrote:
Eugene Lee mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 12:47 PM said:
If you would stop using M$ Outlook and switch to a better mail client
that supports mailing lists, your problem would be solved.
The problem
To start out, I'd just like to make an observation. I've noticed
that some people in this thread have said how this argument has come up
many times, and they would even prefer that people look in the archives
to see what the results were of previous discussion. I find the fact
that the
Okay, I thought I won't be posting again for this thread
but...
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 23:30:37 -0800 (PST)
Panos Konstantinidis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What's the problem with the Reply All button?
Which of the following words you just don't
understand: *some mail clients (eg yahoo)
On Wednesday 26 November 2003 15:30, Panos Konstantinidis wrote:
What's the problem with the Reply All button?
Which of the following words you just don't
understand: *some mail clients (eg yahoo) do not have
a Reply All button?
Not sure if you're using the same Yahoo as I do, but my one
Edwin,
I read the articles you pointed out. I'm sorry, but I still have
not seen any argument that makes me think that the reply-to-the author
option is better. In another posting I've put forth some of my reasons.
And, what is your opinion regarding Reply All?
Reply all is very
Which of the following words you just don't
understand: The
Reply All button is just BESIDE (on the right
side) of the
Reply button!
There is not such a button.
__
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
--
PHP General
Breaking the list to cater for broken mail clients
is a ludicrous suggestion.
Do you think lame arguments like the following
aren't?
(from http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html)
Some administrators justify Reply-To munging by
saying, All responses should go directly to the list
Okay, I've seen my name so here we go again... ;)
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:59:27 +0900
Dave G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Edwin,
Hi Dave,
I read the articles you pointed out. I'm sorry, but I
still have
not seen any argument that makes me think that the
reply-to-the author option
[quote]
Breaking the list to cater for broken mail clients is a ludicrous
suggestion.
[/quote]
I don't know who is talking about broken anything, but I'm
certainly not. I don't think this list is broken, or that my email
software is broken, or that anyone else's is, or that other lists
On Wednesday 26 November 2003 17:26, Dave G wrote:
[quote]
Breaking the list to cater for broken mail clients is a ludicrous
suggestion.
[/quote]
[snip]
I tend towards the side that follows the natural expectation
model because I don't think it comes at the expense of any options.
: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 8:39 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [PHP] Add Reply-To to this list(s)
To start out, I'd just like to make an observation. I've noticed
that some people in this thread have said how this argument has come up
many times, and they would even prefer that people
]
Subject: Re: [PHP] Add Reply-To to this list(s)
Simply put, there are mail clients available which are
mailing-list aware. To
reply to the list you hit the reply-to-list button , to reply
to the sender
you hit the reply button, to reply to everybody and their dogs hit the
reply-to-all
-
From: Nigel Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 26 November 2003 12:04
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [PHP] Add Reply-To to this list(s)
You have missed in my opinion the most important thing, many do NOT want to
throw money down the drain because their Client Doesn't support mailing
lists ok
on 26/11/03 7:18 am, Rasmus Lerdorf at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just to add an authoritative answer here.
I am now thoroughly confused!
I clicked Reply-All to Rasmus Lerdorf's message. Result:
To: Rasmus Lerdorf and Nigel Jones
Cc: PHP General Mailing List.
I clicked Reply-All on a Jason Wong
John W. Holmes wrote:
Adam i Agnieszka Gasiorowski FNORD wrote:
Thomas Svenson wrote:
If you would stop using M$ Outlook and switch to a better mail client
that supports mailing lists, your problem would be solved.
I wouldn't mind that at all. What clients do you recommend for
John W. Holmes wrote:
Try the Opera's 7 M2 (build-in revolutionary
email and news client).
Is this an advertisement or does it actually have the features everyone
is looking for?
Oh, it does automatically sort all complying
mailing lists, BTW, no need to create filters
On Wed, Nov 26, 2003 at 04:38:50PM +0900, Dave G wrote:
:
: I find the fact that the topic has come up multiple times in itself
: indicative of what natural human expectations are.
I find that M$ Outlook does a number of things that going against
natural human expections.
: On the lists I
Roddie --
...and then Roddie Grant said...
%
% on 26/11/03 7:18 am, Rasmus Lerdorf at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
%
% Just to add an authoritative answer here.
%
% I am now thoroughly confused!
Well, that's an honest answer.
%
...
% What is supposed to happen? (This is a plea for education,
[snip]
If you would stop using M$ Outlook and switch to a better
mail client that supports mailing lists, your problem would
be solved.[/snip]
As has been said several times, not all can do this.
True. But maybe instead of *switching* they can just use
*another* mail client for mailing
Wouldn't it be possible to stop this troll ? Or go on, but in private
between people who are interested by this matter...
Thanks
Jay Blanchard wrote:
[snip]
If you would stop using M$ Outlook and switch to a better
mail client that supports mailing lists, your problem would
be solved.[/snip]
I agree!
-Original Message-
From: Sophie Mattoug [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 26 November 2003 14:39
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [PHP] Add Reply-To to this list(s)
Wouldn't it be possible to stop this troll ? Or go on, but in private
between people who are interested
Dave, et al --
...and then Dave G said...
%
% Edwin,
% I read the articles you pointed out. I'm sorry, but I still have
% not seen any argument that makes me think that the reply-to-the author
% option is better. In another posting I've put forth some of my reasons.
Perhaps you've simply
Nigel, et al --
...and then Nigel Jones said...
%
% You have missed in my opinion the most important thing, many do NOT want to
% throw money down the drain because their Client Doesn't support mailing
% lists ok.
What money down the drain? Most of the mail clients presented as
alternatives
Panos --
...and then Panos Konstantinidis said...
%
%
% What's the problem with the Reply All button?
%
% Which of the following words you just don't
% understand: *some mail clients (eg yahoo) do not have
% a Reply All button?
Which of the following words do you not understand?
GET A
Dave, et al --
...and then Dave G said...
%
% To start out, I'd just like to make an observation. I've noticed
...
% that the topic has come up multiple times in itself indicative of what
% natural human expectations are. On the lists I belong to where responses
I very much disagree; I
On Wednesday 26 November 2003 10:04, Nigel Jones wrote:
IMHO we'd be better off having a PHP Forum on php.net and scrub the Mailing
List altogether. That would just about suit everyone. You get to subscribe
to Topics you want to, you can subscribe to whole forums if you want to,
less Privacy
Nigel --
...and then Nigel Jones said...
%
% I totally agree.
With what?
%
% The cost for Outlook is heaps do you think we what to flush $200(or however
% much it is in your country) down the drain???
While doing my best to not ridicule your [company's] choice of on what to
spend some
you don't need special privs to use another mail program.
Actually, given the fact that the other products you're talking about are
POP or IMAP clients, and most Exchange-based companies allow only MAPI
clients (specifically Outlook and the Outlook Web Access client), that could
easily be
--- Panos Konstantinidis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Which of the following words you just don't
understand: The Reply All button is just BESIDE
(on the right side) of the Reply button!
There is not such a button.
They tricked you and changed this recently. When you click the Reply
button,
Dave T-G said:
Perhaps you've simply missed the point. By not mandating a certain
R-T
header the list software does not force reply-to-author but instead
simply allows whatever reply you want.
And Jason Wong said:
Simply put, there are mail clients available which are mailing-list
aware. To
Dave, et al --
...and then Dave G said...
%
%
% Dave T-G said:
...
% simply allows whatever reply you want.
%
% And Jason Wong said:
% Simply put, there are mail clients available which are mailing-list
% aware. To
...
%
% I was wrong, wrong, so very wrong. I see the light now, and I am
I don't know from any other mail programs -- mutt does everything I need
and then some -- but I have heard good things about Evolution, Sylpheed,
and TheBAT! at various times.
If you're in a *nix environment, add KMail.
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe,
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Dave G wrote:
Just to add an authoritative answer here. Mucking up the reply-to
header is simply wrong. I don't really care what arguments you come up
with...
This seems to describe the tone of the debate. The idea of an
authority on a matter that is incapable of
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Nigel Jones wrote:
You have missed in my opinion the most important thing, many do NOT want to
throw money down the drain because their Client Doesn't support mailing
lists ok.
IMHO we'd be better off having a PHP Forum on php.net and scrub the Mailing
List altogether.
* Thus wrote Nigel Jones ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
IMHO we'd be better off having a PHP Forum on php.net and scrub the Mailing
List altogether. That would just about suit everyone. You get to subscribe
to Topics you want to, you can subscribe to whole forums if you want to,
less Privacy Issues.
On Wednesday, November 26, 2003, at 09:04 PM, Nigel Jones wrote:
IMHO we'd be better off having a PHP Forum on php.net and scrub the
Mailing
List altogether. That would just about suit everyone. You get to
subscribe
to Topics you want to, you can subscribe to whole forums if you want
to,
less
On Tue, 14 May 2002 22:23:24 +0900, - Edwin - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 19:10:12 -0500
John W. Holmes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Adam i Agnieszka Gasiorowski FNORD wrote:
Thomas Svenson wrote:
If you would stop using M$ Outlook and switch to a
better mail clientthat
I'm on XP. I would change over to Linux in a heartbeat if Adobe
products were available on that OS, but alas, they are not, and the GIMP
is, by their own description, not a Photoshop killer.
I'm considering the Opera M2 mailer, but it looks kind of immature.
--
Cheers!
Dave G
[EMAIL
--- Rasmus Lerdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A web browser is for buying toilet paper online. An email client is for
communicating.
If we had a quote of the week, I think this would be it. :-)
Chris
=
Chris Shiflett - http://shiflett.org/
PHP Security Handbook
Coming mid-2004
HTTP
Thomas --
...and then Thomas Svenson said...
%
% Hi,
Hi!
%
% It would be nice if the moderator of this, and the other PHP-lists could fix
% so the listserver automatically add a Reply-To header to all the mails.
No it wouldn't. It would be a Bad Thing. This was just beaten to death
And mly opinion is it's _really_ _very_ useful (I just sent my message
to someone instead of the list! Gr Annoying!)
Sophie Mattoug wrote:
It's the way we do on [EMAIL PROTECTED], and everything is fine !
David T-G wrote:
Thomas --
...and then Thomas Svenson said...
% % Hi,
Hi!
% %
On Nov 25, 2003, at 11:57 AM, Thomas Svenson wrote:
Hi,
It would be nice if the moderator of this, and the other PHP-lists
could fix
so the listserver automatically add a Reply-To header to all the mails.
When I hit Reply my message would then automatically reply to the list
and
not the
--- Thomas Svenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It would be nice if the moderator of this, and the other PHP-lists
could fix so the listserver automatically add a Reply-To header to
all the mails.
When I hit Reply my message would then automatically reply to the
list and not the author. Less
David T-G wrote:
%
% When I hit Reply my message would then automatically reply to the list and
% not the author. Less hassle for me when replying and less risk of forgetting
% it.
Much better for you to Do It Right, perhaps including changing to a real
mail program. See the archives for the
Sophie -
...and then Sophie Mattoug said...
%
% And mly opinion is it's _really_ _very_ useful (I just sent my message
% to someone instead of the list! Gr Annoying!)
Since it was apparently intended for the list, I'll reply to all what I
sent to you:
Just because it's done badly
Thomas Svenson said:
Hi,
It would be nice if the moderator of this, and the other PHP-lists could fix
so the listserver automatically add a Reply-To header to all the mails.
When I hit Reply my message would then automatically reply to the list and
not the author. Less hassle for me when
Hi,
Much better to just switch to a mail client that understands the
list headers
in the mail, and supports reply to list. KMail (KDE) and
Squirrelmail (web)
are two that spring to mind.
The only problem with that is not everyone has an option to switch clients.
However, I think
Dan, et al --
...and then Dan Joseph said...
%
% Hi,
Hiya!
%
% Much better to just switch to a mail client that understands the
...
%
% The only problem with that is not everyone has an option to switch clients.
Yes, but that subset is very, very small. There is almost always a
This is, I suppose, a completely off topic thread. However, I just
read the web page
http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
and I was completely unconvinced. In all the years that I have belonged
to and run mailing lists, I have never experienced any difficulties.
Period. Never. It has
On Tuesday 25 November 2003 09:51 am, Dave G wrote:
snip
Telling people that they need to use proper email software and go
about things in the way they don't expect
which they are you refering to? i expect my reply button to reply to the
person who sent the initial message... not everyone
Dave, et al --
...and then Dave G said...
%
% This is, I suppose, a completely off topic thread. However, I just
It sure is. And this has come up many times before. It's all in the
archives.
The only reason I bother to answer when the problem rears its head again
is to fight, tooth and
On Tue, 2003-11-25 at 11:57, Thomas Svenson wrote:
Hi,
It would be nice if the moderator of this, and the other PHP-lists could fix
so the listserver automatically add a Reply-To header to all the mails.
When I hit Reply my message would then automatically reply to the list and
not the
On Tue, Nov 25, 2003 at 04:57:41PM -, Thomas Svenson wrote:
:
: It would be nice if the moderator of this, and the other PHP-lists
: could fix so the listserver automatically add a Reply-To header to all
: the mails.
:
: When I hit Reply my message would then automatically reply to the list
Eugene Lee mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 12:47 PM said:
If you would stop using M$ Outlook and switch to a better mail client
that supports mailing lists, your problem would be solved.
The problem with your theory is that some of us are in corporate
environments
From: Eugene Lee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
If you would stop using M$ Outlook and switch to a better
mail client that supports mailing lists, your problem would be solved.
Amusing--I've used Eudora.. I've used Mozilla.. I've used Netscape.. I don't see that
behaviour in any of those. So,
I had the same problem here until, I installed Netscape to handle my
personal mail (this list). Works great!
Chris: Why don't you give it a try?
Chris W. Parker wrote:
The problem with your theory is that some of us are in corporate
environments where personal email is not allowed and
On Wed, Nov 26, 2003 at 02:51:58AM +0900, Dave G wrote:
:
: Telling people that they need to use proper email software and go
: about things in the way they don't expect is not a path to sensible
: human interfaces. Computers, machines, systems, should match us, not
: us to them. In any case,
[snip]
If you would stop using M$ Outlook and switch to a better mail client
that supports mailing lists, your problem would be solved.
[/snip]
As has been said several times, not all can do this.
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit:
* Thus wrote Thomas Svenson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
Hi,
It would be nice if the moderator of this, and the other PHP-lists could fix
so the listserver automatically add a Reply-To header to all the mails.
When I hit Reply my message would then automatically reply to the list and
not the
This is simply impossible. This list is propagated to places other
than the mailing list (ie. news.php.net)
So? What negative impact would a Reply-To: header have on a newsgroup? It
doesn't affect followups...
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dave G:
This is, I suppose, a completely off topic thread. However, I just
read the web page
http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
and I was completely unconvinced.
Yes, I do use OE which is completely broken. And no I don't have to. Oh
well. I still agree with
It Adds Nothing is absolutely false. Being able to automatically
respond to the list adds more naturally expected behaviour.
I remain steadfast in my opinion that automatically replying to the
list is a much more natural option.
My opinion is that this is a multi person discussion forum,
If you would stop using M$ Outlook and switch to a better mail client
that supports mailing lists, your problem would be solved.
I wouldn't mind that at all. What clients do you recommend for WindwosXP? I
want a small client (note: I have to use Outlook for business purposes, but
have the lists
Chris, et al --
...and then Chris W. Parker said...
%
% Eugene Lee mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
% on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 12:47 PM said:
%
% If you would stop using M$ Outlook and switch to a better mail client
% that supports mailing lists, your problem would be solved.
%
% The
On Tue, Nov 25, 2003 at 10:27:10PM -, Thomas Svenson wrote:
: Eugene Lee suggested:
:
: If you would stop using M$ Outlook and switch to a better mail client
: that supports mailing lists, your problem would be solved.
:
: I wouldn't mind that at all. What clients do you recommend for
:
Have you tried other popular mail clients like those from Eudora or even
Netscape/Mozilla?
Neither Eudora nor Mozilla support RFC2369 headers.
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Thomas Svenson wrote:
If you would stop using M$ Outlook and switch to a better mail client
that supports mailing lists, your problem would be solved.
I wouldn't mind that at all. What clients do you recommend for WindwosXP? I
want a small client (note: I have to use Outlook for business
Adam i Agnieszka Gasiorowski FNORD wrote:
Thomas Svenson wrote:
If you would stop using M$ Outlook and switch to a better mail client
that supports mailing lists, your problem would be solved.
I wouldn't mind that at all. What clients do you recommend for WindwosXP? I
want a small client (note: I
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:51:58 +0900
Dave G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is, I suppose, a completely off topic thread.
However, I just
read the web page
http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
That's great!
and I was completely unconvinced.
:(
...[snipped]...
I remain
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 22:18:01 -
Thomas Svenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...[snipped]...
I am not demanding this to be changed. These lists are
important enough for me to live with these problems. I
would be very grateful though if the moderator(s) decided
it would be a good idea to make
Hi,
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 19:10:12 -0500
John W. Holmes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Adam i Agnieszka Gasiorowski FNORD wrote:
Thomas Svenson wrote:
If you would stop using M$ Outlook and switch to a
better mail clientthat supports mailing lists, your
problem would be solved.
I wouldn't mind
I'm using the browser but not the email and news client so
I'm not sure but I just came across this: (Pls. check under
subheading Mailing lists.)
http://www.opera.com/support/tutorials/opera/m2/folders/?test=pop
And, umm... PHP in Opera looks great. ;)
Yes, but:
- the IMAP
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:55:15 -0500
Glenn E. Sieb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Eugene Lee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
If you would stop using M$ Outlook and switch to a better
mail client that supports mailing lists, your problem
would be solved.
Amusing--I've used Eudora.. I've
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:21:22 -0600
Jay Blanchard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip]
If you would stop using M$ Outlook and switch to a better
mail client that supports mailing lists, your problem would
be solved.[/snip]
As has been said several times, not all can do this.
True. But maybe
- Edwin - wrote:
What's the problem with the Reply All button?
One problem is that people, like you did now, forget to delete the non list
address. That makes me get two mail with the exact same content - one from
the list and another directly to me. That is very irritating.
/T
--
PHP
One problem is that people, like you did now, forget to
delete the non list
address. That makes me get two mail with the exact same
content - one from
the list and another directly to me. That is very irritating.
To you, irritating.
To me, preferable -- one copy, the list one, goes into
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 01:49:09 -
Thomas Svenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
- Edwin - wrote:
What's the problem with the Reply All button?
One problem is that people, like you did now, forget to
delete the non list address.
Hehe... I did NOT forget--that was deliberate.
Roger B.A. Klorese wrote:
To me, preferable -- one copy, the list one, goes into my list folder to be
filed away, and the other stays in my inbox so I see discussions I'm
participating in without having to read all of the traffic.
Preferable for me, also. I have messages sent directly to me
Hi,
True. But maybe instead of *switching* they can just use
*another* mail client for mailing lists? ;)
Unfortunately not everyone has this luxury.
-Dan Joseph
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Ok lets put it this way...
There is LESS chance that a reply should be directed to X user than to the
whole list
If I want to CC something to the writer then let me but 99%(all together) of
Mailing List Posts are directed to the actual List.
Also why do we have to change clients? We have a
Thomas --
...and then Thomas Svenson said...
%
% One problem is that people, like you did now, forget to delete the non list
% address. That makes me get two mail with the exact same content - one from
% the list and another directly to me. That is very irritating.
Sorry that I can't be of much
Glenn, et al --
...and then Glenn E. Sieb said...
%
% Amusing--I've used Eudora.. I've used Mozilla.. I've used Netscape.. I don't see
that behaviour in any of those. So, care to tell us which M$-Windows mail program
supports this?
I admit that you have me at a disadvantage; I don't use
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:27:50 -0800
Roger B.A. Klorese [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm using the browser but not the email and news client
so I'm not sure but I just came across this: (Pls. check
under subheading Mailing lists.)
88 matches
Mail list logo
