Re: [PEDA] Protel vs. DirectCD
while nero is a quality cdrw package... i am running steinberg instant cd/dvd and instant backup on my machines. 1 = win 98se 1 = win2K neither of which have problems i can attribute to the cdrw s'ware. direct cd has caused problems that you would not believe on every system that i've seen it on. (.ddl issues, .vxd errors(?), ect) i always try to give both pc's ALL resources while writing a cd... ended up with too many coasters because of the buffer. for what it's worth. ~joel - Original Message - From: Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel vs. DirectCD Yes, this was mentioned in one of my earlier posts, though, it was met with a healthy dose of skepticism. I did recommend for everyone to un-install anything Roxio related and completely switch over to Ahead's Nero CD writer software drivers for the best system stability. You could imagine some of the replies that post got, your motherboard, something else Win2K related, get the latest Roxio drivers... I just don't think Roxio is worth the effort. Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice (514) 624-4003 Fax (514) 624-3631 - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 11:33 AM Subject: [PEDA] Protel vs. DirectCD I've just encountered a problem which essentially crashes my machine (W2K P99SE SP6) when I try to run Protel while Roxio's Easy CD Creator v 5.01_E2 is running. I think it's just a shell for DirectCD; it came bundled with my Dell, but is actually just crippleware (lowering my opinion of Dell; they promised a CDRW with supporting software, but this comes with ads to buy the full software). Has anyone else seen this? Is there anything specific I can do to alow continuing to at least view schematics in Protel while writing a CD of unrelated files? Steve Hendrix * Tracking #: 7B0CD65563C74148BADB5AA58B9D02736C31EF31 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Matched Lenghth Constraint
Danny, I have always been under the belief that if you make a part of a trace/track thin you might as well make the *entire* trace/track that width. (holding even more true in power ground runs. in which case the thin run could almost act as a fuse.?) If anyone can share logic otherwise I would really be interested in hearing it. Or am I safe in what I think to be true? - Original Message - From: Andrew Jenkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Matched Lenghth Constraint -Original Message- From: Danny Bishop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] ... I wonder what conclusion we can draw from any potential benefits of using a thick trace for a tricky trace, but thinning it down when required to get through tight spots? I suppose that might depend on how one thins the trace. Under certain conditions, I think such a thinning might very well result in an unanticipated reflective interface. That is, if one doesn't take UltraCad's analysis as canon, IMO, a safer thinking process than simply bleating a path to success ;^) aj * Tracking #: 74A48E38F8030A4DAB0A361931AAA163D71A3EB1 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Upgrade Pricing Ethics WAS: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!
easy Ivan... micro-junk may be reading this and you just laid out the ground work for them!!! it was hella funny, despite the possibility of it happening for real! ~Joel - Original Message - From: Rich Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Upgrade Pricing Ethics WAS: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer Hahahahaha I love this guy ;-) -Original Message- From: Bagotronix Tech Support [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 03 August 2002 19:32 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Upgrade Pricing Ethics WAS: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer As for market forces on software prices, I'm going to do my part. I'm done buying any new Microsoft OS's after Win2K (due to their licensing and privacy policies) and Altium (because of pricing/support/utility -per-dollar issues). So I guess I may only be one person, but I'm voting with my checkbook. In the meantime, I'll keep looking for better alternatives while using what works OK for me. Sure am glad this isn't rented software! ;-) You are not alone. As I have said before on this list, W2K and Office 2000 are the last Microsoft products I will be buying unless they scrap their new licensing policies and cut the prices. Likewise with future Protel versions; 99SE will be it. It's a shame, because in many ways W2K and Protel 99SE are excellent products. Further improvements on them would be a wonderful thing, but the new licensing and pricing is a killer. You can not only work with your checkbook, you can also evangelize others about the issues at stake. I have been warning friends and family about what is happening with software licensing, with mixed results. I get a lot of apathy. It will be that way until one day they turn on their PC and it says (names changed to protect the guilty): Your Winblows license has expired. For your convenience, we have your credit card information on file. So that we may continue to serve you, please click on 'OK' to renew your Winblows license. Your credit card will then be charged $199 for a one-year license renewal. If you click on 'cancel', you will be charged a one-time fee of $99 to cover processing costs of removing your computer information from the central license registration database. Should you decide to renew later, you will be charged an addtional $99 processing fee to add your computer information back to the central license registration database, in additon to the rate for a new license, which is currently $299. Should you desire to contest these charges, please recall in the End User's License Agreement that by using the software, you agreed to not use credit card chargeback procedures. Should you attempt to reclaim files from this computer's hard disk without first renewing your Winblows license, any .NYET-enabled files will report their being opened to the central license registration database, possibly leading to your prosecution under the Digital Millenium Copyright Act for felony charges of attempting to defeat software security measures. Thank you for using Macrohard products. OK, that was not a statement of fact, but a prediction of how it might go. In any case, it was fun to write. And it (or something like it) COULD happen. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Matt Pobursky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 5:59 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Upgrade Pricing Ethics WAS: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer * Tracking #: 4499897D6A9FF5499E903EFFE072FF71D3F4650C * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Upgrade Pricing Ethics WAS: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer!!!!
the lurkers should be having a fit over the last couple of weeks threads... glad i don't have to attend any of those meetings!!! not to mention having to try to keep a straight face and convince someone that it's in their best interest to buy into the altium way of business... ..see we will get your money no matter what. if you want you can give it to us every year, starting the year of your initial purchase. or we will kindly give you the option of allowing you to earn interest on the money you don't give us every year and you can then give us interest and principle when you choose! if you think about it... it's a win, win situation. either way we win!!! woo ha ha ha ha ! anyone want to buy a bridge. drop me an line... i'll give you a h*ll of a deal! - Original Message - From: Bagotronix Tech Support [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Upgrade Pricing Ethics WAS: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer Yes, Rene, by definition, everything decided is a decision... However, some decisions are worse than others. This morning I decided whether to eat a bagel and grapefruit juice at home, or get a McDonald's biscuit and orange juice on the way to the office. I chose the McD biscuit. That was an OK decision. But if this morning I had decided to rob a bank instead of go to work at the office, that would have been a bad decision. I can imagine the excuses that Andersen, Enron, and Worldcom executives may be giving for their actions it was an executive decision. Well, duh, they were executives and they made decisions. VERY BAD ONES! I won't be basing my beliefs on what is fair by what Microsoft (or Altium) do. If I started operating my business that way, I would be out of business quickly (Thank you for your order. Oh, did I mention that your price just went up 100%? That's because we came out with Rev C of the board and you never bought any Rev B boards, just Rev A's. If you had bought some Rev B's, you new price for Rev C's would be only 50% higher.). Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Rene Tschaggelar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer Isn't it the other way round ? Having bought the last version you're regarded as 'good' customer and get a higher discount than another one that bought something 10 years back ? Anyway, it is a decision. Microsoft decided in the case of office software that there are those who have a service agreement ($$$) and all the others are new customers that always pay the full price. There is no obligation to offer a discount, really. Rene Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: I wonder if the software can tell, during installation, which version you actually had and refuse to install if it's not the upgrade jump you paid for? IMO, I think it's a shady business practice to charge someone more for an upgrade just because they skipped a version. That's the same as forcing them to buy something they didn't want. They didn't get the use of those intermediate versions, so why should they pay for them? Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Rene Tschaggelar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Not DXP or P99SE, but have you seen the Cadence offer My distributor told me yesterday, that ATS was additional to the usual upgradeability. Meaning you can get DXP whenever you want. The price increases with the number of versions you're behind. Same as when you now upgrade a 2.8 to 99SE, which is more expensive than a 98 to a 99SE. Together with DXP you get ATS, whatever this for a year and you don't have to extend it when it expires. * Tracking #: CB2E41F6A57DBD46BF59EE97520A200D9FD607FC * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
See comments added below... - Original Message - From: Fabian Hartery [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. Joel, I will jump in to the fire on this one to say that 99SE is completely stable on my machine. On the P-CAD subject, I hate it's ridiculous library management regime that requires a pristene netlist before design work can go to the circuit board level. The number of short cuts that must be remembered to become proficent in this package is unbearable. Like Tony, I am a one man designer that has to emcompass all this own design support. That is where the DDB design does not have me running all over the place to track the proper libraries with an archived design. I am not a all-in-one, concept to design to production engineer. I am a CAD designer with a specialty in PCB Layout. I have worked with SEVERAL non-PCB CAD packages. NONE, that is right, NONE of which have been nearly as tempermental as any of the PCB layout packages. Now, that having been said... 99SE is most certainly a step (albeit a somewhat slight step) above the package I developed my skills on, P-CAD 8.5. I am not going to go into the facts in great detail. But only to say that 99SE has made my life easier in some, perhaps even many regards and left me with some completely different concerns than those I had when using 8.5. When I see reports like all was well and then cames Protel, I kindly ask to see a listing of software packages that have been installed, provided that this comment it is not taken as a request for personal intrusion. I have heard of the potential for some programs to possess memory leaks and from writing code, I know of it's existence. So... some programs never really shutdown ! I can't blame Altium for someone else's slop. As to this comment... I haven't a problem with listing the software that I originally installed on my PC. However to question the trustworthiness of my statement, this I find a bit insulting. To say the very least! Prog's as follows: (in order of installation) ~Win 98SE ~Office 2000 ~AutoCAD 2002 ~Steinberg Cubase 5 (music creation s'ware) ~Maya ~Traktor DJ (music manipulation s'ware) ~Palm Synch ~WinMX 3.22 (PNP s'ware) before this is attacked as the problem, incoming files are stored to CD not HD. ~Zone Alarm Pro ~Deep Paint ~Photoshop 7.0 ~Acrobat 5 ~WinCDR In a similar light, I once installed some Norton stuff. When I let it self configure my system for maximum performance it trashed my system into the dirt. Virus scan managers are yet another pox as they hide in sweet memory locations. Since Protel is a CPU intensive package, dingling around in the background is not appreciated by this s/w. I can make my machine easily hang if I keep ump-deen windows open and try to click at them as fast as can. I simply chose to let Protel do it's job first. I maintain my system myself. I know that anytime I allow a s'ware package to configure my system it will configure with complete bias to the package that was allow to do so. Thank you for the input nonetheless. As to keeping windows open and the ability to make a machine hang-up... I have yet to have to open 99SE on this PC (aside from confirming the install) and it was only after I had installed 99SE that I got a blue screen. Argue this all you choose. The fact remains. I could run my DJ s'ware while doing animation in Maya without any problems. That is no longer the case. And the only thing that changed was the addition of 99SE and SP6. The mouse problem stated here seems to be a Microsoft problem. Protel's creation was before that time. What came first ? The car or petrol ? I accept to get the best out of Protel I have to use compatible video cards and mice. When an ATI card gave me a headache, I used a Matrox G550 and was laughing again. Sig I really hate to see whining on this list. With no antaganism meant, if Protel is a problem, it is only logical to try a different CAD package. I have configured my work PC according to the non-standard established by Protel and have gotten the problems to a tolerable minimum. They do exist even after making my machine fit the s'ware. And whining? Perhaps Sir, if you've elected to view my inputs as whining instead of the original intent, (being only to share my what I have encountered while I have been a user of a s'ware package for which we all use and few of us understand entirely) you should look within your understanding of the purpose of this group. Not to mention taking a closer look at the content of my original writings. And had I not already invested several thousand dollars and hours into this package, then perhaps another CAD package would be the answer... But those matters, Mr. Hartery, would in fact make such a statement on your part completely illogical and quite unfounded. Being as you haven't the knowledge of my system, software,
Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Alright... I stayed outta this until my name was mentioned. So here it goes... Protel has, by far, caused more problems than ANY other software I have tryed to use in all my years as in computers! Be it freeware, shareware or a high $ graphics package. It is simply the worst. Just as a test I installed every bit of s'ware that I use on my home PC... (except 99SE) for three weeks straight, not a problem one! I finally added 99SE... and like magic... blue screens of deaths, fatal exceptions and the like were abundant. I don't care whos problem it is... I only know that I and we have to deal with them! Now while 99SE pays my bills... I would be very hard pressed to recommend it (let alone D-o X-pect P-roblems) even to people I don't like! Is it really that dificult to create a package that is not as messy as 99SE? (for the lurkers) As for DXP- when you get bad food AND bad service at a resturant... are you gonna go back and ask for the same sever and order something that is more expensive and easier to screw-up that the first meal? COME ON GUYS! Get it right and then work on the new stuff. - Original Message - From: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. Rob, Almost exactly 6 months ago, on Jan 23, you said almost the exact same thing in a reply to a post in this forum by Joel Hammer with the Subject of Is this normal ???. In that post, as in this one, you assert that the mouse problem is primarily Microsofts, and secondarily Dells. On the following day, Jan 24, I myself posted a reply to that subject, in which I outlined my experience with the mouse problem, and in which post I disagreed with your assessment of the problem and assignment of responsibility to Microsoft and Dell. While there were numerous different responses to both my post, and continued responses to the original subject thread, there was not so much as a word in response from you as to my assertations that infact the problem did not necessarily lie with Microsoft and / or Dell, but actually with Protel. I assumed that you had simply silently agreed that the problem had Protel's name on it. Apparently not. Might I respectfully submit that for each seat of Protel that i-has sold, their are probably at least one thousand, if not several thousand, computers sold by Dell, and probably at least ten times that many Windows Operating Systems (with mouse drivers) sold. You attribute the problem to the fact that Dell was shipping old obsolete mouse drivers with their new systems. Just how many of those thousands upon thousands upon thousands of systems that Dell shipped with those old obsolete mouse drivers do you think it would have taken to have a problem with the mouse driver before Dell Technical Support would have known about it and at least had their own internal bug reports listing the problem within their own Technical Support department. I doubt that it would have taken more than one or two. I am sure that Dell would not have tolerated their own Technical Support personnel ignoring the problem. I am also sure that the problem would have been resolved instantly with Microsoft's help, and that Dell would have updated the driver immediately for all future product shipments. I would respectfully maintain that Dell sells far too many computer systems and has far too much money riding on their reputation, to ignore a problem such as this where a system totally crashes when the mouse wheel is touched. It is just inconceiveable to me that Dell would continue to ship an obsolete mouse driver, if there was even the slightest hint that that mouse driver could be causing the slightest problem. When my company contacted Dell in July of last year, they had absolutely no hint of any kind of a problem with the mouse wheel mouse, or with any of their mouse driverrs, and never even suggested that the driver needed any updating. To me, that speaks volumes toward the apparent fact that there were thousands and thousands of Dell systems out there in the real world that had never had a single problem, despite the fact that they may have an old obsolete mouse driver installed. My system, or should I say our systems (the company had 3 identical Dell systems), never even once had ever had a problem with any other application, except Protel, as far as the mouse was concerned. You have never seemed to indicate that you have ever had any problems on your Dell system with the mouse and the old mouse driver, with any other application except Protel. Doesn't this seem to say something to you and others in this forum. There is still a continual stream of reports in this forum of systems being unstable and crashing on a regular basis, with no apparent known cause of apparent solution. Doesn't this seem to say something to you and others
[PEDA] Current Layer Oddity (in LIB editor and in PCB editor)
I noticed a while back that while in either the LIB editor or the PCB editor *sometimes* when using the +, - or the * to toggle between layers that the Current Layer toolbar acts odd. The colors will toggle thru all of the different layers but the text stays as TopLayer. Even if you use the drop down menu to select the name of the layer, as soon as you click in the work area the text goes right back to TopLayer. The layer tabs along the bottom of the scroll bar toggle thru the layers as well. When I notice that is going on I usually reboot and that fixes the problem about 95% of the time. While this has not caused any problems... to the best of my knowledge, I was just curious if anyone else has seen this and/or noticed any problems that it could have or has caused. And if this has been covered before, I apologize. Thanks ~ Joel Thanks for your time, Joel L. Hammer PCB Layout/Cad Specialist E2 Enterprises Inc. www.e2enterprises.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Is this normal???
Thanks for your time, Joel L. Hammer -Original Message- From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 4:34 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Is this normal??? On 03:34 PM 23/01/2002 -0600, Joel Hammer said: The problem is *not* that wheel mice don't work with Protel! no it doesn't work properly! as soon as the wheel is turned the keyboard freaks out and i have to reboot. (press Esc and the windows start button menuwould pop-up.) Joe, Riddle me this - I use a wheel mouse, I use a keyboard, I use P99SE, I use the wheel mouse and keyboard in P99SE. I do not get crashes in P99SE (except while developing servers and trying to interpret the convoluted SDK). Your experience differs. But as Ian Middleton (in the thread Illegal Operation Crash) said sometimes drivers can affect programs in odd ways. Some of us now avoid ATI graphics cards and HP printers as we can do so easily and so avoid a couple of known vulnerabilities. I got rid of my wheel mouse for one reason alone, if I can use the wheel mouse in ACAD I will. Then when I go to Protel I will make it a point to not use the wheel. However, if I start getting into a groove and think more about the work I'm doing than what Protel doesn't want me to do I run into the issue. This is one point, Should I have to give more consideration to the quirks of a software package than to the design I'm working on? BTW, my system: W98SE Novell Client server software 933Mhz 512M RAM GeForce2MX video card 64M single 21 monitor microjunk three button mouse standard issue keyboard Removed: Logitech Optic Wheel Mouse (the pretty blue one even!) an old school programmable macro keyboard (not even sure they make such an animal any more.) Comments from others saying majorities and minorities are based on what I wonder. Personal preference is my guess. Actually I agree with much of what you are saying - Protel, for an increasingly upmarket product, still suffers from some basic software bugs that we have a right to be fixed, for free. Some of these have been documented for years. There are now sufficient reports of HP and ATI causing problems that I would have thought that Protel should have done detailed investigation into the problems - and then told the us results via their KB. But there is scant info on these problems - possibly suggesting they do not see it as their problem - an attitude that greatly annoys me. If by my comment of most of us... I over stepped my bounds, my apologizes. Let me restate with, I do not want to deal with such things. When all is said and done Protel definitely is quicker and better than the other options open to me. But, that having been said the basic bugs that few would argue exist are too much! IMO. And let me put this question to all of you designers and designer/engineers alike... how would your customers handle it if you sent a product to market with half of the bugs that exist within Protel? And would you dare suggest or act as tho it isn't your problem? (I have followed this forum since the first day i got back from training. And I feel comfortable assuming that *AT LEAST* 99% would give an emphatic HELL NO!) As for a mouse and keyboard breaking Protel - there were comments a while ago about problems with particular mouse drivers. The suggestion at the time was to try to get the latest version. Read the above as support for some of your comments on the quality of the Protel suite not being up to the current price we are charged, but less support for your claim (?) that the wheel doesn't work and you had to get rid of it. If adding my wheel mouse and downloading new drivers will potentially work, I will certainly give it a shot. There is still the fact that I and several other people had considerable headaches because we added a software package to a machine that had some very standard popcorn parts attached to it. Sure I could look at it like what is wrong with Logitech? But I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that Logitech users groups don't exist. And why should they, their products seem to work as they should. In most all cases. This, IMO, is different than Protel. This users group should certainly get the lions share of the QA money Protel allots. I've seen where someone has gotten advise from Protel directly and bounced it off the users before trying it to insure it will correct their issue. This speaks volumes! Even to a newbie! I personally feel as though I didn't get quite what i paid for as far as the software package goes. The buggy nature of it, the seams that are visible between the different development groups (right click pan in PCB and no pan in SCH to give one example) and the overall instablility when under the most commonly use operating system (at least it was at the time 99SE was being developed. and may very well still be) really make me question my decision
Re: [PEDA] Is this normal???
If they did *everything* that we have said they should have done, the software might well be twice as expensive. Each one of these considerations costs money, and, ultimately, the buck starts here good, i want them to use my dollars first and make it so the wheel doesn't cause me to have to reboot! Protel remains the best package in its price class. That is far from saying that it is perfect. two, three times as expensive. I don't care as long as it works properly! What *should* be done is to certify some standard systems. But I want to emphasize something. Many users install Protel and have no problems at all. It sounds like Mr. Hammer had some particularly bad luck. He did not tell use what operating system he was using. Protel recommends NT or W2000 oddly enough, mr. lomax, as i look at the binding of my designers handbook provided absolutly free with my software package i see and i quote Designed for windows 98 and NT along with the microjunk windows logo. now either you have a different book than i or you know something that Protel doesn't. if it is the latter... thank you very much for proving my point! And the ATI video card problem is particularly vexing because ATI cards are very common. How can the lurkers sit by and read this forum and think for a moment that these are things we wanted or thought we were getting when we purchased their companies product? I do understand that they have a job to do. And I recognize that they did not write the software. But they are the face of the company to all of us here. The only contact many of us ever have with anyone from Protel. Aside from the newsletters that arrive telling us that there will now be another opportunity for us to give them more money for something that doesn't work like expected even after I've made all the adjustments the product demanded. This just seems like a very sketchy practice to employ on an iffy product. Perhaps I'm reading this incorrectly. It seems to me that Mr. Hammer thinks that this Forum is Protel. This is a user forum, sponsored by a user company (Techserv), and Protel itself very rarely posts anything here. I am fully aware of who runs what. thank you. and while they don;t post to the forum they do in fact send direct emails to respond to some posts. they havedone it on prior posts of mine. they are out there. and to their credit... the couple of times they have contacted me by direct email they madewhat seemed to be an honest effort to help resolve the issue. but the fact remains that they deal with 1000's of issues and they get paid to do so.it is their job. our jobs is as PCB designers and we too have to deal with the same issues. only difference... we paid in order to deal the aforementioned 1000's of issues! The product doesn't work the way one would expect. the way they market it. Bottom line. can you spit out designs with it? yes. do you know when you start that you aren't going to have to figure out why protel doesn't want to print today? nope! mr. lomax, even you have to see that this is not what most of us wanted to deal with! Now I am not running out and replacing my design software. At least not yet. But let's be real. Buggy is bad place to start from when doing design. And I have found that is the best I can hope for with Protel. If all goes good... I won't encounter an issue that is not common knowledge. And won't have to stop working to figure out what Protel is doing. Or god forbid, why? I've never had the amount of problems with any of my other CAD packages that I've had with Protel. (not to mention the ones I've read about here and not had to deal with myself.) PCB CAD is a smaller field than CAD in general. And a package like Protel 99SE is one very complex piece of software. I may not like it, we may not like it, but one consequence of this is that it will have more bugs than a simpler piece of software that sells many more copies. Is this normal? Is this what we had hoped for when we made the leap from whatever design package to Protel? I'd have to say not! If i had it to do over again... If I had to do it all over again, I'd have bought two copies of Protel when they were cheaper. I'd have made myself a couple of thousand dollars extra Bottom line, the software *with its bugs* is more productive than anything else in the field. You can get better CAD software, i.e., software that can do things that Protel cannot do or does not do well, but you will pay a *lot* more. Cadence Allegro comes to mind. And you will *still* be complaining about problems. I see, they were going for not the worst PCB software ever when they went to market with this package. And even i, a rookie, can recognize that they reached that very loafty goal. They at least were able to be out PCAD 8.5. Sleep well tonite fellas! I would
Re: [PEDA] Is this normal???
Okay, fine, but fix the bugs before dumping on buckets of buzzwordy features and manager bait. 3D PCB visualization? That project should be killed and the software engineers working on it should immediately be reassigned to Protel's QA dept. $8K is still a heck of a lot of money. For anything $100 I deserve zero bugs (being an idealistic realist i know it's unlikely i'll get it...doesn't mean I stop pounding on the table!) cound't have said it better myself! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] BOM question
I have a design that is 100% complete and sent to the board house. Now when i run the BOM server it leaves out a couple of components. (SW1- SW3) They are there on the .sch when i go to reports/BOM... have never seen this before. Anyone have any thoughts on this one? Thanks for your time, Joel L. Hammer PCB Layout/Cad Specialist icq #: 125950045 E2 Enterprises Inc. 1714 Scherer Parkway Saint Charles, Missouri 63303 www.e2enterprises.com The information contained in this email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual and/or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please promptly notify the sender by reply email and then delete the email and destroy any printed copy. If you have received this email in error, you must not disclose, use or alter this information in any fashion. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] BOM question
well color my face stupid I figured it out. that pesky blank part type check box. Thanks for your time, Joel L. Hammer PCB Layout/Cad Specialist icq #: 125950045 E2 Enterprises Inc. 1714 Scherer Parkway Saint Charles, Missouri 63303 636.949.9101 Ext. 26 www.e2enterprises.com The information contained in this email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual and/or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please promptly notify the sender by reply email and then delete the email and destroy any printed copy. If you have received this email in error, you must not disclose, use or alter this information in any fashion. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] Multiple grounds (with a specific shorting point)
I know that you can work around this situation and simply live with the 2 errors (per point) in DRC by picking up a track and shorting it to the ground reference point. My questions is how do you go about setting things up so that the DRC is free of errors? I do know that if you put 2 net names/power ports on a wire in the schematic editor, it will create a ERC error and will join both nets as 1 name will default to the leading alpha-numeric name. (i.e. A B will become 1 net named A) Thank you in advance for the helpful information I will undoubtedly receive. Joel L. Hammer PCB Layout/Cad Specialist E2 Enterprises Inc. 636.949.9101 Ext. 26 www.e2enterprises.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Test point tenting on side opposite TP
carl, have you clicked top or bottom test point in the pad/properties dialog box? (double click on pad in component editor) i've not had any problems in using that for a single-sided tp and not a th via. hope this helps. Joel L. Hammer PCB Layout/Cad Specialist E2 Enterprises Inc. 636.949.9101 Ext. 26 www.e2enterprises.com -Original Message- From: Schattke, Carl [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 11:36 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] Test point tenting on side opposite TP Hello, Has anyone figured out a work around so test points will only be exposed on the tested side and tented on the untested side (like under fine pitch SMT components)? Editing the Gerber's is the only way I know to do this now. :( I would prefer something that be reproducible after revisions are made. Any news about a new version coming? Sincerely, Carl Schattke, C.I.D. Intel Corporation, ACT Sr. Hardware Engineer ( PCB Design) 122 Saratoga Ave. Suite 100 Santa Clara, CA 95052 Office 408-556-3122 Fax 408-261-5869 24 Hr. Ph. 888-204-3704 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Keypad land pattern design
Reliability and low cost... wait a minute don't i work for you? i've got that quote you asked for. you know 15 .lbs of sh*t in a ziploc sandwich bag. we can do that for free and it has a half life of 33 million years. let me know if this will do. if not perhaps we can get more creative with the payment schedule. ;) sorry i cannot help for real. but i can't say these things to my customers and i'm sure all of us have felt like telling them that on numerous occasions. oh well, time to put my gloves back on and try to squeeze all of it in that little bag!!! good luck! Joel L. Hammer PCB Layout/Cad Specialist E2 Enterprises Inc. 636.949.9101 Ext. 26 www.e2enterprises.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 2:02 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] Keypad land pattern design I need to design a landing pattern for a rubber key pad switch. My customer expects high volumes (it's a consumer product). The conductive element of the switch is carbon impregnated in a donut shape (.360in OD, .260in ID). In the past, I've simply followed the recommendations of the manufacturer; however, this manufacturer is located in Taiwan and it's difficult to get the information I need because any questions must be routed through my customer. That opens the door to prolonged responses and miscommunication. As a result, I'm exploring the idea of creating my own landing pattern design. I'm a bit nervous about it. I'd appreciate any design recommendations or possible sources of information. In addition to the landing pattern I need to specify the finish of the land pattern (gold plated, carbon screen, ??). I need reliability and low cost. Thanks, Steve Allen Project Engineer Manufacturing Services, Inc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Teams, Permissions and shared .ddbs
Drew~ I've found that there is a significant issue with cache as it relates to parts by the same name. The software looks in cache first for a part name and if it finds it there, that is the part it will recognize and place. Never mind that the part may have been altered in the library since it was loaded into the .pcb (as well as cache). Since the is not currently a way flush cache, I've found that you are best off to make certain that there are not 2 components with the same name. My only thought on configuring your libs the way you are looking to, is to set up separate .ddb's as opposed to folders within a single .ddb. Joel -Original Message- From: Drew Lundsten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 10:18 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] Teams, Permissions and shared .ddbs Hi folks, I'm trying to set up a company library .ddb using the Design Team feature; the goal is to give each designer their own private folder for parts they've created or are working on, and to have a read-only library into which the individually created parts are placed when a board/footprint/schematic is released. A user has no privileges (all permissions unchecked) with respect to another user's library. The permissions stuff seems to work partially; users can't open the .ddb and read or edit another person's libraries, but they can view the contents of the released libraries (for which they have read permissions enabled). The problem I have is when users Add the company library .ddb to their PCB or Schematic libraries list, all of the libraries in the .ddb are visible, even the ones with no permissions enabled. However, when a user tries to Edit a component in someone else's library from the Browse PCB tab, they are forced to log into the .ddb and unless they log in as Admin, the edit can't be saved. So that much works as expected. Anyone know how I structure the permissions so that the uncontrolled libraries aren't visible? My main concern here is that when a user creates a new PCB and imports footprints from the company library, if some other user has a different footprint of the same name in their personal library (i.e. left over from a prior design review) there's apparently no way to guarantee the footprint import will come from the company library and not a personal (uncontrolled) library. Any thoughts/advice welcomed... Drew Drew Lundsten[EMAIL PROTECTED] direct +1.858.882.8828 Continuous Computing Corporationfax +1.858.777.3388 9380 Carroll Park Dr, San Diego 92121 cell +1.619.847.4251 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
