Thanks for your time,

Joel L. Hammer

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 4:34 PM
> To: Protel EDA Forum
> Subject: Re: [PEDA] Is this normal???
> On 03:34 PM 23/01/2002 -0600, Joel Hammer said:
> > > The problem is *not* that wheel mice don't work with Protel!
> >
> >
> >         no it doesn't work properly! as soon as the wheel
> is turned the
> > keyboard
> >freaks out and i have to reboot. (press Esc and the windows
> start button
> >menu    would pop-up.)
> >
> Joe,
> Riddle me this - I use a wheel mouse, I use a keyboard, I use
> P99SE, I use
> the wheel mouse and keyboard in P99SE. I do not get crashes in P99SE
> (except while developing servers and trying to interpret the
> convoluted SDK).
> Your experience differs.  But as Ian Middleton (in the thread Illegal
> Operation Crash) said sometimes drivers can affect programs in odd
> ways.  Some of us now avoid ATI graphics cards and HP
> printers as we can do
> so easily and so avoid a couple of known vulnerabilities.

I got rid of my wheel mouse for one reason alone, if I can use the wheel
mouse in ACAD I will. Then when I go to Protel I will make it a point to not
use the wheel. However, if I start getting into a groove and think more
about the work I'm doing than what Protel doesn't want me to do I run into
the "issue". This is one point, Should I have to give more consideration to
the quirks of a software package than to the design I'm working on?

BTW, my system:
Novell Client server software
512M RAM
GeForce2MX video card 64M
single 21" monitor
"microjunk" three button mouse
standard issue keyboard

Logitech Optic Wheel Mouse (the pretty blue one even!)

an "old school" programmable macro keyboard (not even sure they make such an
animal any more.)

> Comments from others saying "majorities" and "minorities" are
> based on what
> I wonder.  Personal preference is my guess.
> Actually I agree with much of what you are saying - Protel, for an
> increasingly upmarket product, still suffers from some basic
> software bugs
> that we have a right to be fixed, for free.  Some of these have been
> documented for years.
> There are now sufficient reports of HP and ATI causing
> problems that I
> would have thought that Protel should have done detailed
> investigation into
> the problems - and then told the us results via their KB.
> But there is
> scant info on these problems - possibly suggesting they do
> not see it as
> their problem - an attitude that greatly annoys me.

If by my comment of "most of us..." I over stepped my bounds, my apologizes.
Let me restate with, "I do not want to deal with such things. When all is
said and done Protel definitely is quicker and better than the other options
open to me. But, that having been said the "basic bugs" that few would argue
exist are too much!" IMO. And let me put this question to all of you
designers and designer/engineers alike... how would your customers handle it
if you sent a product to market with half of the bugs that exist within

And would you dare suggest or act as tho it isn't your problem? (I have
followed this forum since the first day i got back from training. And I feel
comfortable assuming that *AT LEAST* 99% would give an emphatic "HELL NO!")

> As for a mouse and keyboard breaking Protel - there were
> comments a while
> ago about problems with particular mouse drivers.  The
> suggestion at the
> time was to try to get the latest version.
> Read the above as support for some of your comments on the
> quality of the
> Protel suite not being up to the current price we are
> charged, but less
> support for your claim (?) that the wheel doesn't work and
> you had to get
> rid of it.

If adding my wheel mouse and downloading new drivers will potentially work,
I will certainly give it a shot. There is still the fact that I and several
other people had considerable headaches because we added a software package
to a machine that had some very standard "popcorn" parts attached to it.
Sure I could look at it like "what is wrong with Logitech?" But I'll bet you
dollars to doughnuts that Logitech users groups don't exist. And why should
they, their products seem to work as they should. In most all cases. This,
IMO, is different than Protel.

This users group should certainly get the lions share of the QA money Protel
allots. I've seen where someone has gotten advise from Protel directly and
bounced it off the users before trying it to insure it will correct their
issue. This speaks volumes! Even to a newbie! I personally feel as though I
didn't get quite what i paid for as far as the software package goes. The
"buggy" nature of it, the "seams" that are visible between the different
development groups (right click pan in PCB and no pan in SCH to give one
example) and the overall instablility when under the most commonly use
operating system (at least it was at the time 99SE was being developed. and
may very well still be) really make me question my decision to eagerly throw
all of my eggs in Protels basket. And the support from the company leaves
even more to be desired than the software.

and FYI...

all you coffee lovers... my main market is OCS (Office Coffee Service) so
these "issues" may very well effect your morning coffee!!! Suddenly there is
a whole new light shed on this thread!!!! (ha ha)

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