> If they did *everything* that we have said they should have done, the
> software might well be twice as expensive. Each one of these
> considerations
> costs money, and, ultimately, the buck starts here....

        good, i want them to use my dollars first and make it so the wheel doesn't
cause me to have to reboot!
> Protel remains the best package in its price class. That is
> far from saying
> that it is perfect.

        two, three times as expensive. I don't care as long as it works properly!

> What *should* be done is to certify some standard systems.
> But I want to emphasize something. Many users install Protel
> and have no
> problems at all. It sounds like Mr. Hammer had some
> particularly bad luck.
> He did not tell use what operating system he was using.
> Protel recommends
> NT or W2000....

        oddly enough, mr. lomax, as i look at the binding of my "designers
handbook" provided absolutly free with my software package i see and i quote
        "Designed for windows 98 and NT" along with the "microjunk" windows logo.
now either you have a different book than i or you know something that
Protel  doesn't. if it is the latter... thank you very much for proving my

> And the ATI video card problem is particularly vexing because
> ATI cards are
> very common.
> >How can the "lurkers" sit by and read this forum and think
> for a moment that
> >these are things we wanted or thought we were getting when
> we purchased
> >their companies product? I do understand that they have a
> job to do. And I
> >recognize that they did not write the software. But they are
> the "face" of
> >the company to all of us here. The only contact many of us
> ever have with
> >anyone from Protel. Aside from the newsletters that arrive
> telling us that
> >there will now be another opportunity for us to give them
> more money for
> >something that doesn't work like expected even after I've
> made all the
> >adjustments the product demanded. This just seems like a very sketchy
> >practice to employ on an iffy product.
> Perhaps I'm reading this incorrectly. It seems to me that Mr.
> Hammer thinks
> that this Forum is "Protel." This is a user forum, sponsored
> by a user
> company (Techserv), and Protel itself very rarely posts anything here.

        I am fully aware of who runs what. thank you. and while they don;t post to
the forum they do in fact send direct emails to respond to some posts. they
have    done it on prior posts of mine. they are out there. and to their
credit... the couple of times they have contacted me by direct email they
made    what seemed to be an honest effort to help resolve the issue. but the
fact remains that they deal with 1000's of issues and they get paid to do
so.it   is their job. our jobs is as PCB designers and we too have to deal
with the same issues. only difference... we paid in order to deal the
aforementioned  1000's of issues! The product doesn't work the way one would
expect. the way they market it. Bottom line. can you spit out designs with
it? yes. do you
        know when you start that you aren't going to have to figure out why protel
doesn't want to print today? nope! mr. lomax, even you have to see that this
        is not what most of us wanted to deal with!

> >Now I am not running out and replacing my design software.
> At least not yet.
> >But let's be real. Buggy is bad place to start from when
> doing design. And I
> >have found that is the best I can hope for with Protel. If
> all goes good...
> >I won't encounter an "issue" that is not common knowledge.
> And won't have to
> >stop working to figure out what Protel is doing. Or god
> forbid, why? I've
> >never had the amount of problems with any of my other CAD
> packages that I've
> >had with Protel. (not to mention the ones I've read about
> here and not had
> >to deal with myself.)
> PCB CAD is a smaller field than CAD in general. And a package
> like Protel
> 99SE is one very complex piece of software. I may not like
> it, we may not
> like it, but one consequence of this is that it will have
> more bugs than a
> simpler piece of software that sells many more copies.
> >Is this normal? Is this what we had hoped for when we made
> the leap from
> >whatever design package to Protel? I'd have to say not! If i
> had it to do
> >over again...
> If I had to do it all over again, I'd have bought two copies
> of Protel when
> they were cheaper. I'd have made myself a couple of thousand
> dollars extra....
> Bottom line, the software *with its bugs* is more productive
> than anything
> else in the field. You can get better CAD software, i.e.,
> software that can
> do things that Protel cannot do or does not do well, but you
> will pay a
> *lot* more. Cadence Allegro comes to mind. And you will *still* be
> complaining about problems.

        I see, they were going for "not the worst PCB software ever" when they went
to market with this package. And even i, a rookie, can recognize that they
reached that very loafty goal. They at least were able to be out PCAD 8.5.
Sleep well tonite fellas!
> >I would certainly look a little harder at some of the other
> >packages. There has to be a stable package somewhere in the
> world that will
> >work properly and still allow the user to use a piece of cutting edge
> >technology like a wheel mouse. (in case you couldn't tell,
> the mouse thing
> >really bothers me!)
> My optical mouse, with a wheel, was free from Computer Gate because I
> bought more than, what, $250 worth of stuff from them in
> putting my system
> together. I think they sell it for a few bucks. Protel PCB
> ignores the
> wheel, but it works, for example, with Eudora, which I am
> using right now.
> I've got Protel open to a PCB on the other monitor. I just
> opened a text
> file in Protel and the wheel scrolled it just fine.
> Finding out exactly what is wrong here could be a pain.
> Presumably Mr.
> Hammer has uninstalled the wheel mouse he had. If it were me,
> I'd verify
> that it still did not work upon reinstallation, then I'd
> uninstall it again
> and buy another optical mouse with wheel for less than $20. I
> think I got a
> Logitech at Best Buy, but it's still sitting in the box, when
> I was putting
> my computer together I couldn't find it, so I installed the
> free one from
> Computer Gate. It has no manufacturer name on it, but it is
> identical in
> form to the AGILER iTek RF USB Wireless Mouse Part#:JMSA67UX on
> www.computergate.com, except it is a PS/2 mouse. It's called
> "Optical Mouse
> 6624LX," and it also has a number AGM6620LX on it.
> Remember, I'm running W2000; if you are using W98, your
> mileage may vary....
> The problem is *not* that wheel mice don't work with Protel!

        no it doesn't work properly! as soon as the wheel is turned the keyboard
freaks out and i have to reboot. (press Esc and the windows start button
menu    would pop-up.)

> Abdulrahman Lomax
> Easthampton, Massachusetts USA

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