Re: [PEDA] save copy as is worthless
- Original Message - From: "Jeff Adolphs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum (E-mail)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 10:01 PM Subject: [PEDA] save copy as is worthless > Hello! Does Protel99SE crash about daily for you? It does for me, I'm using > the Database format and running on a Compaq IPAQ ( crap compared to the Dell > I had before) with Windows 2000. > > I was doing save a copy as thinking I was creating backups. Wrong! At the > end of the day yesterday Protel99SE did its daily crash and destroyed all > the backup files and opened up with a file from 9:43 AM. I guess I'm > supposed to export files to another directory?? I guess saving frequently > and doing a save a copy as to another file name is worthless! Since we began to use Protel98 (a while ago now), we have had instances where the automatic backup was saving rubbish in both the main file and the backups. After a short time, and in the background, the automatic backups were all bad as the scheme rewrote the same file names. You would keep working on the file and tomorrow would find all versions, main and backup, were unreadable (and caused GPF's on loading). With both 98 and 99, we now file - saveall and close the database every hour or so, and copy the database manually to another subdirectory (over a net to another drive using explorer), then reopen the database and continue. If it refuses to open, we are only an hour or so out for the work. Never save the file(s), as it suggests after a GPF or resource fault, even if prompted to by the Protel app. Regards, Saddle (In the land of Oz) "Why does the router in 98 succeed where the router in 99 fails?" * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] save copy as is worthless
Jeff Adolphs wrote: > Hello! Does Protel99SE crash about daily for you? It does for me, I'm using > the Database format and running on a Compaq IPAQ ( crap compared to the Dell > I had before) with Windows 2000. I'm running it under Windows 95 (not recommended by Protel, but it works). I do occasionally have crashes, but haven't had one in months. > > I was doing save a copy as thinking I was creating backups. Wrong! At the > end of the day yesterday Protel99SE did its daily crash and destroyed all > the backup files and opened up with a file from 9:43 AM. I guess I'm > supposed to export files to another directory?? I guess saving frequently > and doing a save a copy as to another file name is worthless! There are more hidden backups than you know about. First, look in the directory where the .DDB file is, then also check in \programfiles\DesignExplorer99SE\Backup If you don't regularly clean that directory, there may be hundreds of backups there. > I'm going to do the same &$%@# thing I did yesterday because I didn't know > how to backup with Protel99SE You can copy the entire .DDB file to another directory, or to the same directory with a different file name. Beware that that may break some links to libraries or related documents. But, that's a lot better than a total loss. Saving anything inside the same .DDB is a poor choice. If the DDB becomes corrupted, then you lose everything in it. > ( and yes I have read the entire manual). That takes a special skill! It is just WAY too dry for me - but I have read most of it at one time or another, trying to figure out how to do something particular. Jon * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] save copy as is worthless
> I assume you mean that they >specialize< in producing Linux boxes. Otherwise I'd have to wonder how they reacted to your desire for a dual-proc Win2k machine. Yeah, Linux boxes are their specialty. But they also build Win boxes too. Their most common customer IT systems are Win 9X/NT/2K workstations connected to Linux servers using Samba (the Linux geek's name for Windows Networking Neighborhood and NT networking). That's what us folks at Bagotronix use, and it's great. And we don't have to pay Mr. Gates $$$ for an NT server license. When asked about why Linux is so hard, they say "Linux is user friendly, it's just that it's choosy about who it's friends are". ;-) Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: "Andrew J Jenkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] save copy as is worthless > On 11:50 AM 8/7/2001 -0400, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: > > >If you get a new PC, you should consider Dell or a local computer box > >builder. I now buy PCs from a local shop that builds Linux servers. > > I assume you mean that they >specialize< in producing Linux boxes. Otherwise I'd have to wonder how they reacted to your desire for a dual-proc Win2k machine. > > I'm whole-hearted in a agreement with your advise. Having used and spec'd some 3 dozen customs for the last 10+ years, I'm all in favor of picking the berries that go in my cereal, if you know what I mean... > > regards, > > aj > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] save copy as is worthless
Re: [PEDA] save copy as is worthless
On 11:50 AM 8/7/2001 -0400, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: >If you get a new PC, you should consider Dell or a local computer box >builder. I now buy PCs from a local shop that builds Linux servers. I assume you mean that they >specialize< in producing Linux boxes. Otherwise I'd have to wonder how they reacted to your desire for a dual-proc Win2k machine. I'm whole-hearted in a agreement with your advise. Having used and spec'd some 3 dozen customs for the last 10+ years, I'm all in favor of picking the berries that go in my cereal, if you know what I mean... regards, aj * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] save copy as is worthless
Jeff: 99SE does not crash daily for me, but it still does crash once in a while. I have noticed that if you try to place a BIG part that sometimes Protel will lock up into a loop, still doing timed backups, but not doing anything intelligent with the keystrokes and mouse activity you are giving it. This tends to happen when more than 1/2 the area of the part extends past the sheet boundaries AND some of the part's pins are trying to connect to nets already placed on the schematic. The good thing about W2K is that at least you can kill the Protel session without it crashing your other tasks. If it were W9X, forget it - you're screwed. The best advice I can give you: get rid of that Compaq! No one likes to admit they bought a piece of crap. But don't feel bad, I bought a Compaq 3 years ago, too. There, I said it. That Compaq was the worst PC I have ever seen. And it wasn't the bargain basement model, either - it was just made that way. Leave it to Compaq to take a great CPU (Intel PII-266) and piss it away by combining it with a slow hard disk, trailing edge video, unreliable DVD, and ancient chipset (no support for ECP on the parallel port). But of course the feature list sounded SO GOOD!. I have only ever retired 3 PCs in my life so far - that Compaq was one of them (I couldn't stand it any longer!). The others were old 286s that had served me well. My experience is not anecdotal - I have friends that also have a Compaq. They hate it too. It is no surprise to me that Compaq is losing market share. I'm surprised they have lasted this long, making the junk they do. But, when you have a huge advertisting budget, and retail outlets, I guess you can steamroll the market... If you get a new PC, you should consider Dell or a local computer box builder. I now buy PCs from a local shop that builds Linux servers. They also sell support contracts on the servers they build. This forces them to use the best parts - they don't want to have to go on-site and fix stuff. I have been very pleased with the 3 PCs (1 W98, 1 W2K, 1 Linux) I have bought from them. I know a local IT manager that buys Dell and says they are really good. I myself have a Dell (circa 1996) and it has been a really good machine, still in service 24/7. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: "Jeff Adolphs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum (E-mail)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 8:01 AM Subject: [PEDA] save copy as is worthless > Hello! Does Protel99SE crash about daily for you? It does for me, I'm using > the Database format and running on a Compaq IPAQ ( crap compared to the Dell > I had before) with Windows 2000. > > I was doing save a copy as thinking I was creating backups. Wrong! At the > end of the day yesterday Protel99SE did its daily crash and destroyed all > the backup files and opened up with a file from 9:43 AM. I guess I'm > supposed to export files to another directory?? I guess saving frequently > and doing a save a copy as to another file name is worthless! > > I'm going to do the same &$%@# thing I did yesterday because I didn't know > how to backup with Protel99SE ( and yes I have read the entire manual). > > I hope your day goes much better than mine! > > Jeff Adolphs > Lake Shore Cryotronics, Inc. > Westerville, Ohio, USA > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] save copy as is worthless
i've deleted some of this thread without reading it so i apologize if i repeat something, but when i first started using protel i turned my nose up at the database format, but then encountered some prob- lem reading the libraries (i am sorry that i cannot be more specific, but i'm sure the experts know what i'm referring to). the fix was to go back to the database format. good luck, miker > -Original Message- > From: Bob Jones [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 8:32 AM > To: Protel EDA Forum > Subject: Re: [PEDA] save copy as is worthless > > I have Protel running on a Compaq Presario. It ran much better when I > stopped using the Database format and switched to the Windows File System. > I > also added more memory. It still is no where near the speed of a Dell > machine that I've seen it run on. > > > - Original Message - > From: "Jeff Adolphs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Protel EDA Forum (E-mail)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 8:01 AM > Subject: [PEDA] save copy as is worthless > > > > Hello! Does Protel99SE crash about daily for you? It does for me, I'm > using > > the Database format and running on a Compaq IPAQ ( crap compared to the > Dell > > I had before) with Windows 2000. > > > > I was doing save a copy as thinking I was creating backups. Wrong! At > the > > end of the day yesterday Protel99SE did its daily crash and destroyed > all > > the backup files and opened up with a file from 9:43 AM. I guess I'm > > supposed to export files to another directory?? I guess saving > frequently > > and doing a save a copy as to another file name is worthless! > > > > I'm going to do the same &$%@# thing I did yesterday because I didn't > know > > how to backup with Protel99SE ( and yes I have read the entire manual). > > > > I hope your day goes much better than mine! > > > > Jeff Adolphs > > Lake Shore Cryotronics, Inc. > > Westerville, Ohio, USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] save copy as is worthless
I have Protel running on a Compaq Presario. It ran much better when I stopped using the Database format and switched to the Windows File System. I also added more memory. It still is no where near the speed of a Dell machine that I've seen it run on. - Original Message - From: "Jeff Adolphs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum (E-mail)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 8:01 AM Subject: [PEDA] save copy as is worthless > Hello! Does Protel99SE crash about daily for you? It does for me, I'm using > the Database format and running on a Compaq IPAQ ( crap compared to the Dell > I had before) with Windows 2000. > > I was doing save a copy as thinking I was creating backups. Wrong! At the > end of the day yesterday Protel99SE did its daily crash and destroyed all > the backup files and opened up with a file from 9:43 AM. I guess I'm > supposed to export files to another directory?? I guess saving frequently > and doing a save a copy as to another file name is worthless! > > I'm going to do the same &$%@# thing I did yesterday because I didn't know > how to backup with Protel99SE ( and yes I have read the entire manual). > > I hope your day goes much better than mine! > > Jeff Adolphs > Lake Shore Cryotronics, Inc. > Westerville, Ohio, USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] save copy as is worthless
On 08:01 AM 7/08/2001 -0400, Jeff Adolphs said: >Hello! Does Protel99SE crash about daily for you? No. >It does for me, I'm using >the Database format and running on a Compaq IPAQ ( crap compared to the Dell >I had before) with Windows 2000. Wouldn't it be great for someone (Protel) to get to the bottom of the wide variation in crash frequency. My Protel almost never crashes (except while running the Delphi debugger then it almost always crashes on exit). I actually can't remember the last one I had in quite some time. >I was doing save a copy as thinking I was creating backups. Wrong! At the >end of the day yesterday Protel99SE did its daily crash and destroyed all >the backup files and opened up with a file from 9:43 AM. I guess I'm >supposed to export files to another directory?? I guess saving frequently >and doing a save a copy as to another file name is worthless! I use Save-Copy As to create a new copy of a file when I want to start some mucking about that I might want to discard. My impression is that it does what I ask - saves the current file as a new one into the DDB and changes the name of the file in the editor. I am worried about your statement "and destroyed all the backup files". What about the autosave files - surely they are OK? You are using the autosave server aren't you? If you are having lots of crashes, as well as trying to sort out why, I would run with a 10 minute autosave creating maybe a rolling set of 10 copies. Also, by using Save Copy-As You may not be getting the "Backup of ..." and "Previous Backup of ..." files created as you would if you use just Save. Both the autosave and the backup copies made when you save a file are created *outside* the DDB (as normal files). Are these getting destroyed? That would be a major bug! >I'm going to do the same &$%@# thing I did yesterday because I didn't know >how to backup with Protel99SE ( and yes I have read the entire manual). Check for the backup files created outside the DDB before you go too far... >I hope your day goes much better than mine! Thanks for asking - it *wasn't* too bad...:-) Now as for why your machine is crashing. 1) The known "resources" issue is not a prob as you are on Win2k 2) Do you have an ATI graphics chip? Are the ATI-induced crashes still an issue these days? Under Win2k? 3) Is there something particular that you are doing that causes the crashes? 4) Others may ask about memory but I have seen P99SE SP6 run stably enough on P133/48 MB and Win95. Slow but wouldn't crash very often - maybe every couple of days after heavy use (probably the known resource issue). I am not a great believer in fixing crashes by adding more memory - I usually like to get a bit further into the real reasons - which are usually driver related (in my experience). 5) Have you got the latest Compaq IPaq drivers for everything? Anyone else using the IPaq with Protel? I for one really do wish Protel would shake a leg and show some signs of addressing these remaining reliability issues. Even if it was to publish more of their in-house work on what is causing the problems. I assume there is some. It would be helpful. Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] save copy as is worthless
jeff, 1. Don't use the database format if you want to get the "backed up" files out of the actual work. "saved as" files are still in the database, and if this crashes, the backups also are lost. I use the windows file system since P99 is out and I never had problems. If you export files from the database, they also are out of reach... (right-click in the Protel Explorer the respective file and choose "export". You will be prompted for a path and filename). 2. There is a "real" backup mechanism. Take a look at the down arrow at the far left of the Protel menu bar. There you find the "Auto-save settings" button under "Preferences". I personally use 10 (the maximum possible) backups in a 10 minutes interval. Quite a lot of files (after 100 minutes, every open file will have 10 images), but after finishing a project, you can manually empty the backup folder, normally located under "C:\Program Files\Design Explorer 99 SE\Backup\" (or your specific protel intallation path) mit freundlichen Grüßen Heiko Vachek elektronik 21 GmbH Flachter Str. 2 71277 Rutesheim Tel:+49 (7152) 99925-20 Fax:+49 (7152) 99925-21 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Webseite: http://www.elektronik21.de > -Original Message- > From: Jeff Adolphs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 2:01 PM > To: Protel EDA Forum (E-mail) > Subject: [PEDA] save copy as is worthless > > > Hello! Does Protel99SE crash about daily for you? It does for > me, I'm using > the Database format and running on a Compaq IPAQ ( crap > compared to the Dell > I had before) with Windows 2000. > > I was doing save a copy as thinking I was creating backups. > Wrong! At the > end of the day yesterday Protel99SE did its daily crash and > destroyed all > the backup files and opened up with a file from 9:43 AM. I guess I'm > supposed to export files to another directory?? I guess > saving frequently > and doing a save a copy as to another file name is worthless! > > I'm going to do the same &$%@# thing I did yesterday because > I didn't know > how to backup with Protel99SE ( and yes I have read the > entire manual). > > I hope your day goes much better than mine! > > Jeff Adolphs > Lake Shore Cryotronics, Inc. > Westerville, Ohio, USA > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
