Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/22/2013 2:51 PM, francis wrote: ~$ python2.7 -m idlelib /usr/bin/python2.7: No module named idlelib.__main__; 'idlelib' is a package and cannot be directly executed Same with python3... C:\Programs>python33\python.exe -m idlelib brings up IDLE on Windows. 2.7 and 3.2 do not work as abov

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Thu, Mar 21, 2013, at 05:37 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > Le Wed, 20 Mar 2013 18:48:15 -0400, "Kurt B. Kaiser" > a écrit : > > > > IDLE has a single keystroke round trip - it's an IDE, not just an > > editor like Sublime Text or Notepad. In the 21st century, people > > expect some sort of IDE.

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 2:48 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > Le Thu, 21 Mar 2013 21:38:41 +0100, > Georg Brandl a écrit : > > > Am 21.03.2013 19:13, schrieb Antoine Pitrou: > > > On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:57:54 -0700 > > > Raymond Hettinger wrote: > > >> > > >> On Mar 20, 2013, at 12:38 PM, Barry Wars

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

You can use idle from the command line almost as easily as the CP interpreter: 'python -m idlelib' instead of just 'python' (I just tried it to verify). Unlike bare 'python', IDLE includes a grep. Right click on any 'hit' and it opens the file at the specified line. Unlike bare 'python', you

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

Am 22.03.2013 10:48, schrieb Antoine Pitrou: > Le Thu, 21 Mar 2013 21:38:41 +0100, > Georg Brandl a écrit : > >> Am 21.03.2013 19:13, schrieb Antoine Pitrou: >> > On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:57:54 -0700 >> > Raymond Hettinger wrote: >> >> >> >> On Mar 20, 2013, at 12:38 PM, Barry Warsaw >> >> wrote

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

Le Thu, 21 Mar 2013 21:38:41 +0100, Georg Brandl a écrit : > Am 21.03.2013 19:13, schrieb Antoine Pitrou: > > On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:57:54 -0700 > > Raymond Hettinger wrote: > >> > >> On Mar 20, 2013, at 12:38 PM, Barry Warsaw > >> wrote: > >> > >> > Right. Ultimately, I think IDLE should be

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 11:21 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > We can refactor IDLE to make aspects of it easier to test with the > buildbots, especially now that we have unittest.mock in the standard > library to mock out some of the UI interaction in the test suite. (I'm > happy to help coach the IDLE

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/21/2013 7:17 PM, Thomas Wouters wrote: although I do think we should move 'idlelib' out of the standard library :) Currently, 'python -m idlelib' start idle from the command line. If idlelib/ were moved out of /Lib, idle.py should be added so 'python -m idle' would work. I may suggest t

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/21/2013 11:21 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 5:26 AM, Daniel Holth wrote: I showed IDLE to my 6-year-old on the Raspberry Pi and I'm convinced it is cool. Gave up on trying to (slowly) install bpython. We were multiplying large numbers and counting to 325,000 in no time. I

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/21/2013 5:19 PM, Mark Janssen wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:32 PM, Terry Reedy mailto:tjre...@udel.edu>> wrote: I might be jumping in late here, but... Not at all. Thank you for the enlightening post. The *only* thing I find "ugly" about it is that it doesn't have a white-on-black

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

I expressed this opinion at the sprints (right before I left) in the group discussion with Guido and Nick, but I'm not sure if it's been represented in this thread yet (I'm jetlagged and talk about Windows command prompts depresses me) -- so I'll just rehash it: distributing IDLE in the binary pack

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 2:31 PM, Oleg Broytman wrote: > On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 02:19:33PM -0700, Mark Janssen < > dreamingforw...@gmail.com> wrote: > > The *only* thing I find "ugly" about it is that it doesn't have a > > white-on-black color scheme. Look at any hacker console and you won't > f

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 02:19:33PM -0700, Mark Janssen wrote: > The *only* thing I find "ugly" about it is that it doesn't have a > white-on-black color scheme. Look at any hacker console and you won't find > a white screen. Call me a bad hacker or not hacker at all -- I hate black backgroun

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:32 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 3/20/2013 12:41 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote: > > Personally, I think that IDLE reflects badly on Python in more ways than >> one. It's badly maintained, quirky and ugly. >> > > Ugly is subjective: by what standard and compared to what? > I mi

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

Am 21.03.2013 19:13, schrieb Antoine Pitrou: > On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:57:54 -0700 > Raymond Hettinger wrote: >> >> On Mar 20, 2013, at 12:38 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: >> >> > Right. Ultimately, I think IDLE should be a separate project entirely, >> > but I >> > guess there's push back against t

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:57:54 -0700 Raymond Hettinger wrote: > > On Mar 20, 2013, at 12:38 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > > Right. Ultimately, I think IDLE should be a separate project entirely, but > > I > > guess there's push back against that too. > > The most important feature of IDLE is tha

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

Am 21.03.2013 16:23, schrieb Nick Coghlan: > On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 6:22 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: >> On Mar 21, 2013, at 05:25 AM, Eli Bendersky wrote: >> >>>1. Whether IDLE should be developed separately from the core Python >>>repository (while still being shipped). >>> >>>I really want to const

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 6:22 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Mar 21, 2013, at 05:25 AM, Eli Bendersky wrote: > >>1. Whether IDLE should be developed separately from the core Python >>repository (while still being shipped). >> >>I really want to constructively focus on (1). > > In fact, solving (1) sh

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 5:26 AM, Daniel Holth wrote: > I showed IDLE to my 6-year-old on the Raspberry Pi and I'm convinced > it is cool. Gave up on trying to (slowly) install bpython. We were > multiplying large numbers and counting to 325,000 in no time. It might > not be for *me* but I'm not go

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Mar 21, 2013, at 05:25 AM, Eli Bendersky wrote: >1. Whether IDLE should be developed separately from the core Python >repository (while still being shipped). > >I really want to constructively focus on (1). In fact, solving (1) should help move along the discussions about separating the stdlib

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 12:18 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Paul Moore writes: > > > I have no figures one way or the other on that. You may well be > > right. Are we aiming at "all Windows users" here? > > We need to be careful about this. ISTM that IDLE is aiming at the > subset of users

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

Paul Moore writes: > I have no figures one way or the other on that. You may well be > right. Are we aiming at "all Windows users" here? We need to be careful about this. ISTM that IDLE is aiming at the subset of users on any platform who for some reason need/want a simple development environ

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/20/2013 12:41 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote: Interesting writeup about PyCon 2013 young coder education:http://therealkatie.net/blog/2013/mar/19/pycon-2013-young-coders/ Quote: "We used IDLE because it's already on Raspian's desktop. Personally, I like IDLE as a teaching tool. It's included in t

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

I showed IDLE to my 6-year-old on the Raspberry Pi and I'm convinced it is cool. Gave up on trying to (slowly) install bpython. We were multiplying large numbers and counting to 325,000 in no time. It might not be for *me* but I'm not going to teach my daughter a large IDE any time soon. __

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 11:42 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 3/20/2013 11:54 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote: > >> On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:32 PM, Terry Reedy > > > Ugly is subjective: by what standard and compared to what? >> >> Compared to other existing Python IDEs and shells which are layered on >

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

> > On Mar 20, 2013, at 12:38 PM, Barry Warsaw > > wrote: > > > >> Right. Ultimately, I think IDLE should be a separate project > entirely, but I > >> guess there's push back against that too. > > > > The most important feature of IDLE is that it ships

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/21/2013 5:20 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Le Thu, 21 Mar 2013 02:42:33 -0400, Terry Reedy a écrit : On 3/20/2013 11:54 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:32 PM, Terry Reedy Ugly is subjective: by what standard and compared to what? Compared to other existing Python I

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/21/2013 5:41 AM, Paul Moore wrote: On 21 March 2013 06:54, Devin Jeanpierre wrote: On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 2:42 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: I think being frozen in the late 1990s is better than being frozen in the early 1980s, like Command Prompt is. In fact, I think we should 'deprecate' the

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 21 March 2013 10:32, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 3/21/2013 5:27 AM, Paul Moore wrote: > >> Can I suggest that debates about the capability of Windows command >> line programming are off-topic here? > > > I respectfully disagree, unless you say that the whole thread is off topic. > If it is okay for

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/21/2013 5:27 AM, Paul Moore wrote: Can I suggest that debates about the capability of Windows command line programming are off-topic here? I respectfully disagree, unless you say that the whole thread is off topic. If it is okay for people to say that IDLE, including the IDLE interactiv

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 20 March 2013 23:53, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > I also note that in the last few weeks, I've seen at least two instances > that I recall of a beginner on the tu...@python.org mailing list being > utterly confused by Python's Unicode handling because the Windows command > prompt is unable to print

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 21 March 2013 06:54, Devin Jeanpierre wrote: > On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 2:42 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: >> I think being frozen in the late 1990s is better than being frozen in the >> early 1980s, like Command Prompt is. In fact, I think we should 'deprecate' >> the Command Prompt interpreter as th

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

Le Wed, 20 Mar 2013 18:48:15 -0400, "Kurt B. Kaiser" a écrit : > > IDLE has a single keystroke round trip - it's an IDE, not just an > editor like Sublime Text or Notepad. In the 21st century, people > expect some sort of IDE. Or, they should! I don't think I've used an IDE in years (not serio

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 21 March 2013 00:38, Neil Hodgson wrote: > Terry Reedy: > >> Broken (and quirky): it has an absurdly limited output buffer (under a >> thousand lines) > >The limit is actually lines. > >> Quirky: Windows uses cntl-C to copy selected text to the clipboard and >> (where appropriate) cn

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

Le Thu, 21 Mar 2013 02:42:33 -0400, Terry Reedy a écrit : > On 3/20/2013 11:54 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:32 PM, Terry Reedy > > Ugly is subjective: by what standard and compared to what? > > > > Compared to other existing Python IDEs and shells which are layered

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/21/2013 12:32 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: Well, spending a lot of time backporting new features is not my idea of fun. OTOH, I have no objection. I intentionally did not say in the PEP that it should be mandatory. Along those lines, I've thought that IDLE should refrain from using the new

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 03/20/2013 11:34 PM, Georg Brandl wrote: I don't really understand what Antoine's "quiescently torpid" means, "quiescent" = "peaceful, quiet, still" "torpid" = "lethargic, not moving" "antoine" = "thesaurus owner" //arry/ ___ Python-Dev mailing l

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/21/2013 12:36 AM, Glenn Linderman wrote: On 3/20/2013 5:15 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: Broken (and quirky): it has an absurdly limited output buffer (under a thousand lines) People keep claiming that Windows CMD has a limited output buffer. It is configurable, at least to lines, which is

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 2:42 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: > I think being frozen in the late 1990s is better than being frozen in the > early 1980s, like Command Prompt is. In fact, I think we should 'deprecate' > the Command Prompt interpreter as the standard interactive interpreter and > finish polish

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/20/2013 11:54 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:32 PM, Terry Reedy Ugly is subjective: by what standard and compared to what? Compared to other existing Python IDEs and shells which are layered on top of modern GUI toolkits that are actively developed to keep with mo

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

Am 21.03.2013 00:47, schrieb Barry Warsaw: > On Mar 20, 2013, at 11:11 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > >>On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 15:05:40 -0700 >>Nick Coghlan wrote: >>> >>> Yes, the status quo of Idle is not something we should allow to >>> continue indefinitely, but decisions about its future developm

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/20/2013 8:38 PM, Neil Hodgson wrote: Terry Reedy: Broken (and quirky): it has an absurdly limited output buffer (under a thousand lines) The limit is actually lines. I clicked Start / All programs / Python 3.3 / Python (command line) >>> help(str) (several times) and scrolled bac

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/20/2013 5:15 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: Broken (and quirky): it has an absurdly limited output buffer (under a thousand lines) People keep claiming that Windows CMD has a limited output buffer. It is configurable, at least to lines, which is where I have mine set. That is far too much t

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013, at 09:17 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 3/20/2013 6:48 PM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: > > Well, one can hardly use Command Prompt captures, unless one were to > flip black and white within the window (but not its frame). And yet many books do - it's really ugly. When I see a book

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:32 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 3/20/2013 12:41 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote: > > Personally, I think that IDLE reflects badly on Python in more ways than >> one. It's badly maintained, quirky and ugly. >> > > Ugly is subjective: by what standard and compared to what? > > Com

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 7:57 PM, Raymond Hettinger < raymond.hettin...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mar 20, 2013, at 12:38 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > Right. Ultimately, I think IDLE should be a separate project entirely, > but I > guess there's push back against that too. > > > The most important

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/20/2013 12:41 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote: Personally, I think that IDLE reflects badly on Python in more ways than one. It's badly maintained, quirky and ugly. Ugly is subjective: by what standard and compared to what? I suggested in my previous response why I think 'badly maintained' is u

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 7:57 PM, Raymond Hettinger < raymond.hettin...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Mar 20, 2013, at 12:38 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > Right. Ultimately, I think IDLE should be a separate project entirely, > but I > guess there's push back against that too. > > > The most important f

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 21/03/13 11:15, Terry Reedy wrote: getting back to CP versus IDLE... From IDLE: print('\x80') € print('\xc8') È Impressed? You should be. Open Start menu / Python33 / Python (command line) and both of those result (modulo the specific character) in UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' cod

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Mar 20, 2013, at 12:38 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > Right. Ultimately, I think IDLE should be a separate project entirely, but I > guess there's push back against that too. The most important feature of IDLE is that it ships with the standard library. Everyone who clicks on the Windows MSI on

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

Eli Bendersky gmail.com> writes: > Oh, and another thing. If a Windows user wants a good Python shell, > IDLE should be his last choice. There's Spyder, there's IPython, > there's probably a bunch of others I'm not aware of.This is for IDLE > as a shell. The same can be said for IDLE as an editor

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

Terry Reedy: > Broken (and quirky): it has an absurdly limited output buffer (under a > thousand lines) The limit is actually lines. > Quirky: Windows uses cntl-C to copy selected text to the clipboard and (where > appropriate) cntl-V to insert clipboard text at the cursor pretty much

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/20/2013 6:48 PM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: It seems to me that we are seeing increasing use of IDLE for beginner training. I've seen several recent Python books that use IDLE as their programming environment, and which include IDLE screen captures in the text. Well, one can hardly use Command

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/20/2013 3:59 PM, Brian Curtin wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Xavier Morel wrote: That would be a blow to educators, but also Windows users: while the CLI works very nicely in unices, that's not the case with the win32 console which is as best as I can describe it a complete turd,

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/20/2013 2:22 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 11:09 AM, R. David Murray mailto:rdmur...@bitdance.com>> wrote: On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 09:41:53 -0700, Eli Bendersky mailto:eli...@gmail.com>> wrote: Personally, I think that IDLE reflects badly on Python in more ways than one.

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Mar 20, 2013, at 11:11 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 15:05:40 -0700 >Nick Coghlan wrote: >> >> Yes, the status quo of Idle is not something we should allow to >> continue indefinitely, but decisions about its future development >> should be made by active maintainers that are

[Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

I apologize for that formatting mess - the Barracuda rejected my original email for some reason (squirrelmail directly from shore.net) and I had to resend it from rejects - it got re-wrapped on transmission. -- KBK ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev

[Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

[Barry] > On Mar 20, 2013, at 11:22 AM, Eli Bendersky wrote: >>IDLE would be a great first foray into this "separate project" world, because it is many ways a separate project. > I really think that's true. A separate project, occasionally sync'd back > into > the stdlib by a core dev seems like t

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 15:05:40 -0700 Nick Coghlan wrote: > > Yes, the status quo of Idle is not something we should allow to > continue indefinitely, but decisions about its future development > should be made by active maintainers that are already trusted to make > changes to it (such as Terry and

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Mar 20, 2013, at 12:40 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > >>I didn't hear any at the sprint here. > > JFDI! :) Please don't rush this. We have Roger Serwy being given commit privileges specifically to work on Idle, Terry's PEP proposing to mak

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Xavier Morel wrote: > > On 2013-03-20, at 21:14 , Eli Bendersky wrote: > > >>> Agreed that the "sync into stdlib" think should not happen, or should > at > > > best be a temporary measure until we can remove idle from the source > tarball (maybe at the 3.

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Xavier Morel wrote: > On 2013-03-20, at 20:38 , Barry Warsaw wrote: > > > On Mar 20, 2013, at 12:31 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > > >> Agreed that the "sync into stdlib" think should not happen, or should at > >> best be a temporary measure until we can remove id

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 2013-03-20, at 21:14 , Eli Bendersky wrote: >>> Agreed that the "sync into stdlib" think should not happen, or should at > best be a temporary measure until we can remove idle from the source tarball (maybe at the 3.4 release, otherwise at 3.5). >>> >>> Right. Ultimately, I think

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 2013-03-20, at 20:59 , Brian Curtin wrote: > On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Xavier Morel wrote: >> That would be a blow to educators, but also Windows users: while the CLI >> works very nicely in unices, that's not the case with the win32 console >> which is as best as I can describe it a co

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Mar 20, 2013, at 12:40 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > >>I didn't hear any at the sprint here. > > JFDI! :) > > -Barry +1 why are we still talking show me the patches ___ Python-Dev mailing list Py

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

>> Agreed that the "sync into stdlib" think should not happen, or should at > >> best be a temporary measure until we can remove idle from the source > >> tarball (maybe at the 3.4 release, otherwise at 3.5). > > > > Right. Ultimately, I think IDLE should be a separate project entirely, > but I

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Xavier Morel wrote: > That would be a blow to educators, but also Windows users: while the CLI > works very nicely in unices, that's not the case with the win32 console > which is as best as I can describe it a complete turd, making IDLE a > very nice proposition t

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Xavier Morel wrote: > On 2013-03-20, at 20:38 , Barry Warsaw wrote: > > > On Mar 20, 2013, at 12:31 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > > >> Agreed that the "sync into stdlib" think should not happen, or should at > >> best be a temporary measure until we can remove i

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Mar 20, 2013, at 12:40 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: >I didn't hear any at the sprint here. JFDI! :) -Barry signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 2013-03-20, at 20:38 , Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Mar 20, 2013, at 12:31 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > >> Agreed that the "sync into stdlib" think should not happen, or should at >> best be a temporary measure until we can remove idle from the source >> tarball (maybe at the 3.4 release, otherwi

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote: > 2013/3/20 Barry Warsaw : > > On Mar 20, 2013, at 11:22 AM, Eli Bendersky wrote: > > > >>IDLE would be a great first foray into this "separate project" world, > >>because it is many ways a separate project. > > > > I really think that's t

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Mar 20, 2013, at 12:31 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > >Agreed that the "sync into stdlib" think should not happen, or should at > >best be a temporary measure until we can remove idle from the source > >tarball (maybe at the 3.4 release,

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Mar 20, 2013, at 12:31 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: >Agreed that the "sync into stdlib" think should not happen, or should at >best be a temporary measure until we can remove idle from the source >tarball (maybe at the 3.4 release, otherwise at 3.5). Right. Ultimately, I think IDLE should be a

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote: > 2013/3/20 Barry Warsaw : > > On Mar 20, 2013, at 11:22 AM, Eli Bendersky wrote: > > > >>IDLE would be a great first foray into this "separate project" world, > >>because it is many ways a separate project. > > > > I really think that's t

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

2013/3/20 Barry Warsaw : > On Mar 20, 2013, at 11:22 AM, Eli Bendersky wrote: > >>IDLE would be a great first foray into this "separate project" world, >>because it is many ways a separate project. > > I really think that's true. A separate project, occasionally sync'd back into > the stdlib by a

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Eli Bendersky wrote: > > > > On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 11:09 AM, R. David Murray > wrote: > >> On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 09:41:53 -0700, Eli Bendersky >> wrote: >> > Personally, I think that IDLE reflects badly on Python in more ways than >> > one. It's badly maintaine

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Mar 20, 2013, at 11:22 AM, Eli Bendersky wrote: >IDLE would be a great first foray into this "separate project" world, >because it is many ways a separate project. I really think that's true. A separate project, occasionally sync'd back into the stdlib by a core dev seems like the right way t

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 11:09 AM, R. David Murray wrote: > On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 09:41:53 -0700, Eli Bendersky > wrote: > > Personally, I think that IDLE reflects badly on Python in more ways than > > one. It's badly maintained, quirky and ugly. It serves a very narrow set > of > > uses, and does i

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 09:41:53 -0700, Eli Bendersky wrote: > Personally, I think that IDLE reflects badly on Python in more ways than > one. It's badly maintained, quirky and ugly. It serves a very narrow set of > uses, and does it badly. > > Being part of Python *distributions* and being part of c

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 9:41 AM, Eli Bendersky wrote: > Interesting writeup about PyCon 2013 young coder > education:http://therealkatie.net/blog/2013/mar/19/pycon-2013-young-coders/ > > Quote: > > "We used IDLE because it's already on Raspian's desktop. Personally, I like > IDLE as a teaching too

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Todd Rovito wrote: > On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote: > > Interesting writeup about PyCon 2013 young coder > > education: > http://therealkatie.net/blog/2013/mar/19/pycon-2013-young-coders/ > > > > Quote: > > > > "We used IDLE because it's

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote: > Interesting writeup about PyCon 2013 young coder > education:http://therealkatie.net/blog/2013/mar/19/pycon-2013-young-coders/ > > Quote: > > "We used IDLE because it's already on Raspian's desktop. Personally, I like > IDLE as a teaching to

[Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

Interesting writeup about PyCon 2013 young coder education: http://therealkatie.net/blog/2013/mar/19/pycon-2013-young-coders/ Quote: "We used IDLE because it's already on Raspian's desktop. Personally, I like IDLE as a teaching tool. It's included in the standard library, it does tab completion a