date:20100512

In the world of computers, we call this FUD:  the spreading of Fear,
Uncertainty and Doubt.

On Tue, 2010-05-11 at 22:33 -0700, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:
 The discussion about the new Pacenti 650B tires momentarily ventured
 into commentary on the future of 650B. I thought this was worth a
 discussion of its own.
 
 Two or three years ago we had 650B bikes at Hiawatha Cyclery from at
 least three manufacturers: Rivendell, Kogswell, and Rawland. Now
 Rivendell does 650B only on smaller sizes of certain models, Kogswell
 seems to be on an indefinite hiatus, and Rawland's new models have
 been displayed at various venues with 622 and 559 wheels (with disc
 brakes, 650B will still be an option).
 
 To the extent that 650B has gone mainstream, it is by and large in the
 27.5 wheel size for mountain bikes. It seems like new disc-specific
 rim and fat-knobby tire options are proliferating, but the 650B rim
 and tire options for road bikes have not expanded much, if at all,
 since I first read about 650B in the Rivendell Reader. There are some
 small importers/manufacturers like Jan Heine with the Gran Bois and
 now Pacenti with his Pari-Moto, but they have yet to get their tires
 into the QBP catalog or on any Treks. I was pleasantly surprised to
 see another of my mainstream distributors pick up some 650B stuff, but
 again, it was mostly of the MTB variety.
 
 I'm not sure Rivendell and a few custom framebuilders can sell enough
 650B bikes to support much expansion, or even maintain current levels
 of the 650B rim/tire selection and availability. Unless the 650B size
 gets picked up by Trek or some other major player, I think its future
 will be at best as a niche item with limited selection and spotty
 availability. I'd encourage 650B bike owners and aficionados to
 stockpile an extra set of rims and a couple sets of favorite tires,
 just in case.
 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: Pacenti Pari-Moto 650B Tires?

On Tue, 2010-05-11 at 19:06 -0700, Bruce wrote:
 Riv is still selling 650B bikes and tires, and tires are also
 available at a number of other places. it's a niche for sure, but a
 live one.


And the thing is, with the internet we no longer need mass market
merchandisers like QBP and Trek for a niche to be viable.  



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Riv TOSRV Riders

On Tue, 2010-05-11 at 15:13 -0400, John Geiger wrote:
 Great ride this weekend and great to see everyone again.

How was the weather?



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

RE: [RBW] Pacenti Pari-Moto 650B Tires?

2010-05-12 Thread Frederick, Steve

Bear in mind that last summer he was taking PRE-orders to have these tires 
made.  He made no secret that there would be a considerable delay in shipping.  
It's actually only a month or two later than his estimate which I don't think's 
bad for a from drawing board to the street product.  
 
I'm looking forward to getting mine, too!  Saluki needs a new pair of shoes...
 
Steve

-Original Message-
From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com]on Behalf Of Bruce
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 4:18 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Pacenti Pari-Moto 650B Tires?


If the pair I purchased last July (the pre-order thing) will ever show up, 
they'll go on my Riv Road 650B conversion and I'll tell you how they ride.  
Hmm, order from Bikelugs in July, they ship following the May. What other bike 
company does that remind me of? hmmm  :)



  _  

From: Liesl lchat...@smm.org
To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, May 11, 2010 12:40:33 PM
Subject: [RBW] Pacenti Pari-Moto 650B Tires?

Anyone out there tried 'em?

http://www.velo-orange.com/papati65ta.html






-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: 650B dead or alive?

2010-05-12 Thread Tim McNamara



On May 12, 2010, at 6:24 AM, Steve Palincsar wrote:

On Tue, 2010-05-11 at 22:33 -0700, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:

The discussion about the new Pacenti 650B tires momentarily ventured
into commentary on the future of 650B. I thought this was worth a
discussion of its own.

Two or three years ago we had 650B bikes at Hiawatha Cyclery from at
least three manufacturers: Rivendell, Kogswell, and Rawland. Now
Rivendell does 650B only on smaller sizes of certain models, Kogswell
seems to be on an indefinite hiatus, and Rawland's new models have
been displayed at various venues with 622 and 559 wheels (with disc
brakes, 650B will still be an option).

To the extent that 650B has gone mainstream, it is by and large in  
the

27.5 wheel size for mountain bikes. It seems like new disc-specific
rim and fat-knobby tire options are proliferating, but the 650B rim
and tire options for road bikes have not expanded much, if at all,
since I first read about 650B in the Rivendell Reader. There are some
small importers/manufacturers like Jan Heine with the Gran Bois and
now Pacenti with his Pari-Moto, but they have yet to get their tires
into the QBP catalog or on any Treks. I was pleasantly surprised to
see another of my mainstream distributors pick up some 650B stuff,  
but

again, it was mostly of the MTB variety.

I'm not sure Rivendell and a few custom framebuilders can sell enough
650B bikes to support much expansion, or even maintain current levels
of the 650B rim/tire selection and availability. Unless the 650B size
gets picked up by Trek or some other major player, I think its future
will be at best as a niche item with limited selection and spotty
availability. I'd encourage 650B bike owners and aficionados to
stockpile an extra set of rims and a couple sets of favorite tires,
just in case.



In the world of computers, we call this FUD:  the spreading of Fear,
Uncertainty and Doubt.


Malarkey.

It's a practical look at what the 650B market is today.  It's a niche  
and a darned tiny one at that.  There are way more 29ers out there,  
a tire size that has had much faster acceptance and deeper market  
penetration than the 650B resurgence sparked by Rivendell and Jan  
Heine.  Grant's and Jan's own markets are small, maybe 30,000 people  
total (and with a lot of overlap), and only a fraction of those folks  
have gone with 650B.  A few non-Grant/non-Jan have gone with 650B  
too.  Google around on the web for 650B and it's pretty clear it hit  
a peak over a year ago and has tailed off in terms of interest.


650B is a nice tire size, very useful for some applications, but has  
failed to achieve the kind of critical mass necessary to be anything  
more than a tiny niche.  Now, as someone else has pointed out, that  
may work fine for current users over the next decade or so thanks to  
the Internet making niche markets much more viable than they used to  
be.  This is a good thing.  But until Trek or Cannondale take on  
650B- which they frankly aren't going to do without a compelling  
reason- it's going to be a marginal place in the market.  With $70  
tires, making it also a niche populated only by the dedicated and  
affluent.



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: 650B dead or alive?

On Wed, 2010-05-12 at 07:42 -0500, Tim McNamara wrote:
 On May 12, 2010, at 6:24 AM, Steve Palincsar wrote:
  On Tue, 2010-05-11 at 22:33 -0700, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:
  The discussion about the new Pacenti 650B tires momentarily ventured
  into commentary on the future of 650B. I thought this was worth a
  discussion of its own.
 
  Two or three years ago we had 650B bikes at Hiawatha Cyclery from at
  least three manufacturers: Rivendell, Kogswell, and Rawland. Now
  Rivendell does 650B only on smaller sizes of certain models, Kogswell
  seems to be on an indefinite hiatus, and Rawland's new models have
  been displayed at various venues with 622 and 559 wheels (with disc
  brakes, 650B will still be an option).
 
  To the extent that 650B has gone mainstream, it is by and large in  
  the
  27.5 wheel size for mountain bikes. It seems like new disc-specific
  rim and fat-knobby tire options are proliferating, but the 650B rim
  and tire options for road bikes have not expanded much, if at all,
  since I first read about 650B in the Rivendell Reader. There are some
  small importers/manufacturers like Jan Heine with the Gran Bois and
  now Pacenti with his Pari-Moto, but they have yet to get their tires
  into the QBP catalog or on any Treks. I was pleasantly surprised to
  see another of my mainstream distributors pick up some 650B stuff,  
  but
  again, it was mostly of the MTB variety.
 
  I'm not sure Rivendell and a few custom framebuilders can sell enough
  650B bikes to support much expansion, or even maintain current levels
  of the 650B rim/tire selection and availability. Unless the 650B size
  gets picked up by Trek or some other major player, I think its future
  will be at best as a niche item with limited selection and spotty
  availability. I'd encourage 650B bike owners and aficionados to
  stockpile an extra set of rims and a couple sets of favorite tires,
  just in case.
 
  In the world of computers, we call this FUD:  the spreading of Fear,
  Uncertainty and Doubt.
 
 Malarkey.
 
 It's a practical look at what the 650B market is today.  It's a niche  
 and a darned tiny one at that.  There are way more 29ers out there,  
 a tire size that has had much faster acceptance and deeper market  
 penetration than the 650B resurgence sparked by Rivendell and Jan  
 Heine.  Grant's and Jan's own markets are small, maybe 30,000 people  
 total (and with a lot of overlap), and only a fraction of those folks  
 have gone with 650B.  A few non-Grant/non-Jan have gone with 650B  
 too.  Google around on the web for 650B and it's pretty clear it hit  
 a peak over a year ago and has tailed off in terms of interest.
 
 650B is a nice tire size, very useful for some applications, but has  
 failed to achieve the kind of critical mass necessary to be anything  
 more than a tiny niche.  Now, as someone else has pointed out,

no, as I pointed out

  that  
 may work fine for current users


  over the next decade or so

I didn't put a time limit on it

  thanks to  
 the Internet making niche markets much more viable than they used to  
 be.  This is a good thing. 


Indeed.


  But until Trek or Cannondale take on  
 650B- which they frankly aren't going to do without a compelling  
 reason- it's going to be a marginal place in the market


And that's perfectly fine.


 .  With $70  
 tires, making it also a niche populated only by the dedicated and  
 affluent.

650B tires are no more expensive than 700x23s.  Tire prices have gone up
in the past few years.  Your Pro3Race 23mm is a $60 tire these days, as
is the Hetre or the Pari Moto.  You don't have to be all that affluent
to afford $60.  It is, after all, not much more than 4 movie tickets,
less if you go to the concession stand. 

Your point: 650B is not mass market.  I agree.  Jim's point is more like
tremble in your boots, because its future is precarious and that is
precisely FUD in a nutshell, containing fear, uncertainty and doubt.

We see FUD in the bicycling business all the time.  A recent example:
now that Shimano's going to 10 spd on its MTB groups, some folks are
saying you'd better stockpile 9 spd cassettes, because 9 is now
officially obsolete.  Some folks on the forums started beating the drum
about Campagnolo 10 as soon as the first 11 speed Campy groups came out.
And all you fans of mechanical shifting had better tremble in your
booties, too, because electric shifting is here and you know what that
means.



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: 650B dead or alive?

MTB 650B appears to be stable.  I am somewhat concerned about 650B
road rim and tire availability.  Fortunately, both items store well.

I am not concerned to the point where I will buy any old 650B rim set
or tire to hoard in a storage bin.  But if I see a top quality
component on eBay, a bicycle on line outlet, or (less likely) a
bicycle shop, it makes sense to buy now rather than wait to see what
may be coming down the road.

On May 12, 12:33 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
thill@gmail.com wrote:
 The discussion about the new Pacenti 650B tires momentarily ventured
 into commentary on the future of 650B. I thought this was worth a
 discussion of its own.

 Two or three years ago we had 650B bikes at Hiawatha Cyclery from at
 least three manufacturers: Rivendell, Kogswell, and Rawland. Now
 Rivendell does 650B only on smaller sizes of certain models, Kogswell
 seems to be on an indefinite hiatus, and Rawland's new models have
 been displayed at various venues with 622 and 559 wheels (with disc
 brakes, 650B will still be an option).

 To the extent that 650B has gone mainstream, it is by and large in the
 27.5 wheel size for mountain bikes. It seems like new disc-specific
 rim and fat-knobby tire options are proliferating, but the 650B rim
 and tire options for road bikes have not expanded much, if at all,
 since I first read about 650B in the Rivendell Reader. There are some
 small importers/manufacturers like Jan Heine with the Gran Bois and
 now Pacenti with his Pari-Moto, but they have yet to get their tires
 into the QBP catalog or on any Treks. I was pleasantly surprised to
 see another of my mainstream distributors pick up some 650B stuff, but
 again, it was mostly of the MTB variety.

 I'm not sure Rivendell and a few custom framebuilders can sell enough
 650B bikes to support much expansion, or even maintain current levels
 of the 650B rim/tire selection and availability. Unless the 650B size
 gets picked up by Trek or some other major player, I think its future
 will be at best as a niche item with limited selection and spotty
 availability. I'd encourage 650B bike owners and aficionados to
 stockpile an extra set of rims and a couple sets of favorite tires,
 just in case.

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group 
 athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: Nitto Highrider front rack vs. Big Front Rack vs. Low Riders

 Ray -- yes, the Nitto Big Front Rack is rigid, and therefore OK with
 clamps.  But the Nova is not rigid, according to Tubus' web 
 site:http://www.tubus.com/en/lowrider/nova In the diagram on the right,

Not sure what you mean by rigid.  The Nova is stainless steel which is
more heavy and less strong than cro-molly (much better looking).  The
Tubus Ergo and Tara properly mounted carry as much or more up front
than any tourer will ever want.

I have the Tubus Tara mounted to mid-fork braze ons.  An excellent set
up for touring.

As I understand your real dilemma is you do not have mid-fork braze
ons.  A rack that mounts at the drop out and to the fork crown
probably is optimal under the circumstances.  I think the big Nitto
and similar racks meant to carry a lot on top and the side are less
than perfect for long road touring.  Panniers low and to the side up
front, with possibly a small handlebar bag with map holder or GPS
mount seems the more practical set up.

On May 11, 7:46 pm, Lisa ukulele.l...@mac.com wrote:
 Ray -- yes, the Nitto Big Front Rack is rigid, and therefore OK with
 clamps.  But the Nova is not rigid, according to Tubus' web 
 site:http://www.tubus.com/en/lowrider/nova In the diagram on the right,
 the Nova pannier support arm is marked adjustable with arcs to show
 where it pivots.

 I do believe there are some rigid designs of lowriders out there --
 Bruce Gordon's, for instance.

 Lisa

 On May 11, 7:03 pm, Ray Shine r.sh...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

  Lisa --- that isn't a concern because the rack is rigid and can't collapse 
  onto itself. The only thong the p- clamp does is prevent the rack from 
  falling forward or rearward.  If the bottom of the rack is attached to 
  eyelets, then the rack cannot slide down any further since it is a rigid 
  structure.

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group 
 athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Riv TOSRV Riders

2010-05-12 Thread John Geiger

The weather was good and bad. Temperatures were great both days. Just above 50 
with some sun on Sunday. No rain. However, cross and headwinds both directions. 
Saturday the winds were about 20 mph with gusts that were said to be up to 40. 
I saw a line of riders riding at about a 40 degree angle from the winds. Sunday 
the winds died down a little bit but were still brutal especially in some of 
the more exposed areas of the ride. Was still a great ride even though it 
completely wore me out.

The route detour added some new interesting hills as well as 8 extra miles to 
the trip. So, 226 miles round trip I believe.

All in all, typical interesting TOSRV weather.



On May 12, 2010, at 7:59 AM, Steve Palincsar wrote:

 On Tue, 2010-05-11 at 15:13 -0400, John Geiger wrote:
 Great ride this weekend and great to see everyone again.
 
 How was the weather?
 
 
 
 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group at 
 http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: 650B dead or alive?

2010-05-12 Thread Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery

If I was engaging in FUD, I would suggest stockpiling far more than a
couple pairs of tires. I don't think there's any reason not to get a
650B bike. I like 650B and am committed to selling 650B bikes. I'm
probably getting a 650B bike for my wife. But I think that the 650B
market is small enough that there is a better than average chance of
volatility.

In the bike business, there are very few big players. It's nice that
Velocity makes 650B rims, but Velocity isn't exactly a blue chip
corporation on which to depend for long-term stability. They are a
small outfit, and 650B rims are a small part of what they do. Even now
Velocity USA is out of stock on any given listed rim (650B or
otherwise) more often than not. Will they still be committed to 650B
in five years if the number of 650B bikes being sold shows signs of
decline? I wouldn't bet on it. That's why I think it makes sense to
squirrel away a pair of rims, just in case. If I'm wrong, you'll still
probably need the rims someday.

On May 12, 6:24 am, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:
 In the world of computers, we call this FUD:  the spreading of Fear,
 Uncertainty and Doubt.

 On Tue, 2010-05-11 at 22:33 -0700, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:





  The discussion about the new Pacenti 650B tires momentarily ventured
  into commentary on the future of 650B. I thought this was worth a
  discussion of its own.

  Two or three years ago we had 650B bikes at Hiawatha Cyclery from at
  least three manufacturers: Rivendell, Kogswell, and Rawland. Now
  Rivendell does 650B only on smaller sizes of certain models, Kogswell
  seems to be on an indefinite hiatus, and Rawland's new models have
  been displayed at various venues with 622 and 559 wheels (with disc
  brakes, 650B will still be an option).

  To the extent that 650B has gone mainstream, it is by and large in the
  27.5 wheel size for mountain bikes. It seems like new disc-specific
  rim and fat-knobby tire options are proliferating, but the 650B rim
  and tire options for road bikes have not expanded much, if at all,
  since I first read about 650B in the Rivendell Reader. There are some
  small importers/manufacturers like Jan Heine with the Gran Bois and
  now Pacenti with his Pari-Moto, but they have yet to get their tires
  into the QBP catalog or on any Treks. I was pleasantly surprised to
  see another of my mainstream distributors pick up some 650B stuff, but
  again, it was mostly of the MTB variety.

  I'm not sure Rivendell and a few custom framebuilders can sell enough
  650B bikes to support much expansion, or even maintain current levels
  of the 650B rim/tire selection and availability. Unless the 650B size
  gets picked up by Trek or some other major player, I think its future
  will be at best as a niche item with limited selection and spotty
  availability. I'd encourage 650B bike owners and aficionados to
  stockpile an extra set of rims and a couple sets of favorite tires,
  just in case.

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group 
 athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: Nitto Highrider front rack vs. Big Front Rack vs. Low Riders

2010-05-12 Thread Ray Shine

Yes, Lisa, I see what you mean. It still seems like a good design, and I 
wouldn't be overly concerned about using a clamp to attach it to a fork.  If 
all the bolts on the rack itself are tight, it becomes virtually rigid, and the 
clamp won't slide down.  It won't slide down rapidly in any event, so routine 
check and bolt snugging will certainly catch a slip.  I actually had more 
trouble with my rear rack working loose where the struts from the brake bridge 
connected to the rack.  I ended up using two zip ties to hold the rack from 
slipping back on the struts.  That held trouble-free for he next 2,000 miles.  
Go figure…





From: Lisa ukulele.l...@mac.com
To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, May 11, 2010 5:46:27 PM
Subject: [RBW] Re: Nitto Highrider front rack vs. Big Front Rack vs. Low  Riders

Ray -- yes, the Nitto Big Front Rack is rigid, and therefore OK with
clamps.  But the Nova is not rigid, according to Tubus' web site:
http://www.tubus.com/en/lowrider/nova  In the diagram on the right,
the Nova pannier support arm is marked adjustable with arcs to show
where it pivots.

I do believe there are some rigid designs of lowriders out there --
Bruce Gordon's, for instance.

Lisa

On May 11, 7:03 pm, Ray Shine r.sh...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
 Lisa --- that isn't a concern because the rack is rigid and can't collapse 
 onto itself. The only thong the p- clamp does is prevent the rack from 
 falling forward or rearward.  If the bottom of the rack is attached to 
 eyelets, then the rack cannot slide down any further since it is a rigid 
 structure.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: 650B dead or alive?

What would really help would be one or a group of the custom 650B
builders commissioning a run of quality rims much as Pacenti did with
the Pari-Motos.  Jan Heine is doing this.  It would be nice if there
were a few alternatives as well.

On May 12, 8:24 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com
wrote:
 If I was engaging in FUD, I would suggest stockpiling far more than a
 couple pairs of tires. I don't think there's any reason not to get a
 650B bike. I like 650B and am committed to selling 650B bikes. I'm
 probably getting a 650B bike for my wife. But I think that the 650B
 market is small enough that there is a better than average chance of
 volatility.

 In the bike business, there are very few big players. It's nice that
 Velocity makes 650B rims, but Velocity isn't exactly a blue chip
 corporation on which to depend for long-term stability. They are a
 small outfit, and 650B rims are a small part of what they do. Even now
 Velocity USA is out of stock on any given listed rim (650B or
 otherwise) more often than not. Will they still be committed to 650B
 in five years if the number of 650B bikes being sold shows signs of
 decline? I wouldn't bet on it. That's why I think it makes sense to
 squirrel away a pair of rims, just in case. If I'm wrong, you'll still
 probably need the rims someday.

 On May 12, 6:24 am, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:





  In the world of computers, we call this FUD:  the spreading of Fear,
  Uncertainty and Doubt.

  On Tue, 2010-05-11 at 22:33 -0700, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:

   The discussion about the new Pacenti 650B tires momentarily ventured
   into commentary on the future of 650B. I thought this was worth a
   discussion of its own.

   Two or three years ago we had 650B bikes at Hiawatha Cyclery from at
   least three manufacturers: Rivendell, Kogswell, and Rawland. Now
   Rivendell does 650B only on smaller sizes of certain models, Kogswell
   seems to be on an indefinite hiatus, and Rawland's new models have
   been displayed at various venues with 622 and 559 wheels (with disc
   brakes, 650B will still be an option).

   To the extent that 650B has gone mainstream, it is by and large in the
   27.5 wheel size for mountain bikes. It seems like new disc-specific
   rim and fat-knobby tire options are proliferating, but the 650B rim
   and tire options for road bikes have not expanded much, if at all,
   since I first read about 650B in the Rivendell Reader. There are some
   small importers/manufacturers like Jan Heine with the Gran Bois and
   now Pacenti with his Pari-Moto, but they have yet to get their tires
   into the QBP catalog or on any Treks. I was pleasantly surprised to
   see another of my mainstream distributors pick up some 650B stuff, but
   again, it was mostly of the MTB variety.

   I'm not sure Rivendell and a few custom framebuilders can sell enough
   650B bikes to support much expansion, or even maintain current levels
   of the 650B rim/tire selection and availability. Unless the 650B size
   gets picked up by Trek or some other major player, I think its future
   will be at best as a niche item with limited selection and spotty
   availability. I'd encourage 650B bike owners and aficionados to
   stockpile an extra set of rims and a couple sets of favorite tires,
   just in case.

  --
  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
  RBW Owners Bunch group.
  To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
  To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
  rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
  For more options, visit this group 
  athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group 
 athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -

 - Show quoted text -

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: 650B dead or alive?

2010-05-12 Thread rswatson

I always stockpile parts I like. 650B is no exception. I used to hoard my 
favorite 26 rims and tires, too. Grant said somewhere a while back: if you 
find something you like, buy a lifetime supply because it will soon be 
discontinued or improved

Ryan




On May 12, 2010, at 7:24 AM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com 
wrote:

 If I was engaging in FUD, I would suggest stockpiling far more than a
 couple pairs of tires. I don't think there's any reason not to get a
 650B bike. I like 650B and am committed to selling 650B bikes. I'm
 probably getting a 650B bike for my wife. But I think that the 650B
 market is small enough that there is a better than average chance of
 volatility.
 
 In the bike business, there are very few big players. It's nice that
 Velocity makes 650B rims, but Velocity isn't exactly a blue chip
 corporation on which to depend for long-term stability. They are a
 small outfit, and 650B rims are a small part of what they do. Even now
 Velocity USA is out of stock on any given listed rim (650B or
 otherwise) more often than not. Will they still be committed to 650B
 in five years if the number of 650B bikes being sold shows signs of
 decline? I wouldn't bet on it. That's why I think it makes sense to
 squirrel away a pair of rims, just in case. If I'm wrong, you'll still
 probably need the rims someday.
 
 On May 12, 6:24 am, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:
 In the world of computers, we call this FUD:  the spreading of Fear,
 Uncertainty and Doubt.
 
 On Tue, 2010-05-11 at 22:33 -0700, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 The discussion about the new Pacenti 650B tires momentarily ventured
 into commentary on the future of 650B. I thought this was worth a
 discussion of its own.
 
 Two or three years ago we had 650B bikes at Hiawatha Cyclery from at
 least three manufacturers: Rivendell, Kogswell, and Rawland. Now
 Rivendell does 650B only on smaller sizes of certain models, Kogswell
 seems to be on an indefinite hiatus, and Rawland's new models have
 been displayed at various venues with 622 and 559 wheels (with disc
 brakes, 650B will still be an option).
 
 To the extent that 650B has gone mainstream, it is by and large in the
 27.5 wheel size for mountain bikes. It seems like new disc-specific
 rim and fat-knobby tire options are proliferating, but the 650B rim
 and tire options for road bikes have not expanded much, if at all,
 since I first read about 650B in the Rivendell Reader. There are some
 small importers/manufacturers like Jan Heine with the Gran Bois and
 now Pacenti with his Pari-Moto, but they have yet to get their tires
 into the QBP catalog or on any Treks. I was pleasantly surprised to
 see another of my mainstream distributors pick up some 650B stuff, but
 again, it was mostly of the MTB variety.
 
 I'm not sure Rivendell and a few custom framebuilders can sell enough
 650B bikes to support much expansion, or even maintain current levels
 of the 650B rim/tire selection and availability. Unless the 650B size
 gets picked up by Trek or some other major player, I think its future
 will be at best as a niche item with limited selection and spotty
 availability. I'd encourage 650B bike owners and aficionados to
 stockpile an extra set of rims and a couple sets of favorite tires,
 just in case.
 
 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group 
 athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
 
 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group at 
 http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: 650B dead or alive?

2010-05-12 Thread David Faller

Then I'd better order two dozen Jack Brown greens ASAP!

On 5/12/2010 6:47 AM, rswat...@me.com wrote:

I always stockpile parts I like. 650B is no exception. I used to hoard my favorite 26 rims
and tires, too. Grant said somewhere a while back: if you find something you like, buy a
lifetime supply because it will soon be discontinued or improved

Ryan

On May 12, 2010, at 7:24 AM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclerythill@gmail.com
wrote:

If I was engaging in FUD, I would suggest stockpiling far more than a
couple pairs of tires. I don't think there's any reason not to get a
650B bike. I like 650B and am committed to selling 650B bikes. I'm
probably getting a 650B bike for my wife. But I think that the 650B
market is small enough that there is a better than average chance of
volatility.

In the bike business, there are very few big players. It's nice that
Velocity makes 650B rims, but Velocity isn't exactly a blue chip
corporation on which to depend for long-term stability. They are a
small outfit, and 650B rims are a small part of what they do. Even now
Velocity USA is out of stock on any given listed rim (650B or
otherwise) more often than not. Will they still be committed to 650B
in five years if the number of 650B bikes being sold shows signs of
decline? I wouldn't bet on it. That's why I think it makes sense to
squirrel away a pair of rims, just in case. If I'm wrong, you'll still
probably need the rims someday.

On May 12, 6:24 am, Steve Palincsarpalin...@his.com wrote:

In the world of computers, we call this FUD: the spreading of Fear,
Uncertainty and Doubt.

On Tue, 2010-05-11 at 22:33 -0700, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:

The discussion about the new Pacenti 650B tires momentarily ventured
into commentary on the future of 650B. I thought this was worth a
discussion of its own.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group
athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: Pacenti Pari-Moto 650B Tires?

2010-05-12 Thread Patrick in VT

On May 11, 9:32 pm, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote:

They are called event tires as in, you would race with them. I suppose that 
means roofing tacks should be avoided

the durability of this tire will be the deal-breaker for me.  i
understand folks wanting a tire just a bit smaller than the hetre to
make things work better on particular frames.  but a 38mm tire begs to
be ridden off-road, wherever that might take you.  so far, the hetre
is more than up to task on this front.  if the pari-moto is too
fragile for some rough stuff, my pre-order will be my last.

personally, i was hoping for a tire like this in the 33-35 range.
maybe grand bois will fill that void.





-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: 650B dead or alive?

Except JBGs are 700 size rubber

From: David Faller dfal...@charter.net
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, May 12, 2010 8:52:37 AM
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: 650B dead or alive?

Then I'd better order two dozen Jack Brown greens ASAP!

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: 650B dead or alive?

Wish I had gotten a spare original equipment wheel set for my 26 Rambouillet. 
Like the Romulus wheels now on closeout at RBW, only smaller. :(

From: rswat...@me.com rswat...@me.com
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, May 12, 2010 8:47:13 AM
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: 650B dead or alive?

I always stockpile parts I like. 650B is no exception. I used to hoard my 
favorite 26 rims and tires, too. Grant said somewhere a while back: if you 
find something you like, buy a lifetime supply because it will soon be 
discontinued or improved

Ryan

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: 650B dead or alive?

2010-05-12 Thread David Faller

I was addressing Grant's quote about how things we like tend to get 
improved out of existence, that's all...


On 5/12/2010 6:59 AM, Bruce wrote:

Except JBGs are 700 size rubber



*From:* David Faller dfal...@charter.net
*To:* rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
*Sent:* Wed, May 12, 2010 8:52:37 AM
*Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: 650B dead or alive?

Then I'd better order two dozen Jack Brown greens ASAP!


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups RBW Owners Bunch group.

To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: 650B dead or alive?

2010-05-12 Thread James Valiensi

Hey,
For rim brakes Velocity has at least two models out, Grand Bois has one, and 
VeloOrange has their version as well.

Grand Bois started getting this stuff made to support their 650B Clients in 
Japan.

I think 650B is here for a long while.

If you want more choices in the market, buy more 650B bikes and get your riding 
buddies on one too, as soon as Trek sees that they are loosing sales to 650B 
makers they have one model out, (It will be a carbon fiber frame with ugliest 
graphics/colors imaginable). 

When the mainstream are on their 650B's I'll be looking for 700D...

Cheers!

On May 12, 2010, at 6:45 AM, JoelMatthews wrote:

 What would really help would be one or a group of the custom 650B
 builders commissioning a run of quality rims much as Pacenti did with
 the Pari-Motos.  Jan Heine is doing this.  It would be nice if there
 were a few alternatives as well.
 
 On May 12, 8:24 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com
 wrote:
 If I was engaging in FUD, I would suggest stockpiling far more than a
 couple pairs of tires. I don't think there's any reason not to get a
 650B bike. I like 650B and am committed to selling 650B bikes. I'm
 probably getting a 650B bike for my wife. But I think that the 650B
 market is small enough that there is a better than average chance of
 volatility.
 
 In the bike business, there are very few big players. It's nice that
 Velocity makes 650B rims, but Velocity isn't exactly a blue chip
 corporation on which to depend for long-term stability. They are a
 small outfit, and 650B rims are a small part of what they do. Even now
 Velocity USA is out of stock on any given listed rim (650B or
 otherwise) more often than not. Will they still be committed to 650B
 in five years if the number of 650B bikes being sold shows signs of
 decline? I wouldn't bet on it. That's why I think it makes sense to
 squirrel away a pair of rims, just in case. If I'm wrong, you'll still
 probably need the rims someday.
 
 On May 12, 6:24 am, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 In the world of computers, we call this FUD:  the spreading of Fear,
 Uncertainty and Doubt.
 
 On Tue, 2010-05-11 at 22:33 -0700, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:
 
 The discussion about the new Pacenti 650B tires momentarily ventured
 into commentary on the future of 650B. I thought this was worth a
 discussion of its own.
 
 Two or three years ago we had 650B bikes at Hiawatha Cyclery from at
 least three manufacturers: Rivendell, Kogswell, and Rawland. Now
 Rivendell does 650B only on smaller sizes of certain models, Kogswell
 seems to be on an indefinite hiatus, and Rawland's new models have
 been displayed at various venues with 622 and 559 wheels (with disc
 brakes, 650B will still be an option).
 
 To the extent that 650B has gone mainstream, it is by and large in the
 27.5 wheel size for mountain bikes. It seems like new disc-specific
 rim and fat-knobby tire options are proliferating, but the 650B rim
 and tire options for road bikes have not expanded much, if at all,
 since I first read about 650B in the Rivendell Reader. There are some
 small importers/manufacturers like Jan Heine with the Gran Bois and
 now Pacenti with his Pari-Moto, but they have yet to get their tires
 into the QBP catalog or on any Treks. I was pleasantly surprised to
 see another of my mainstream distributors pick up some 650B stuff, but
 again, it was mostly of the MTB variety.
 
 I'm not sure Rivendell and a few custom framebuilders can sell enough
 650B bikes to support much expansion, or even maintain current levels
 of the 650B rim/tire selection and availability. Unless the 650B size
 gets picked up by Trek or some other major player, I think its future
 will be at best as a niche item with limited selection and spotty
 availability. I'd encourage 650B bike owners and aficionados to
 stockpile an extra set of rims and a couple sets of favorite tires,
 just in case.
 
 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group 
 athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
 
 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group 
 athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
 
 - Show quoted text -
 
 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

[RBW] Re: 650B dead or alive?

2010-05-12 Thread Esteban

Jim has a point.  And a good view from a bike shop.  At the same time,
650B stuff has long been available from abroad (Japan seems to have a
steady market, and France used to...).  The Internets make scouring
the globe for a reliable supplier much easier.  I imagine that someone
in the world would step in with a steady stream of 650B if things hit
the fan.

This being said, at the SDCBS, there was quite a lot of 650B road
content...

Esteban
San Diego, Calif.

On May 12, 7:13 am, David Faller dfal...@charter.net wrote:
 I was addressing Grant's quote about how things we like tend to get
 improved out of existence, that's all...

 On 5/12/2010 6:59 AM, Bruce wrote:





  Except JBGs are 700 size rubber

  
  *From:* David Faller dfal...@charter.net
  *To:* rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
  *Sent:* Wed, May 12, 2010 8:52:37 AM
  *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: 650B dead or alive?

  Then I'd better order two dozen Jack Brown greens ASAP!

  --
  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
  Groups RBW Owners Bunch group.
  To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
  To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
  rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
  For more options, visit this group at
 http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group 
 athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: SoCal River Ride?

Ooops, we're possibly talking about different river rides!!! Here's the one
I'm a-talkin' about :

http://www.bicyclefixation.com/blog/archives/0477.html

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 7:20 PM, Errin Vasquez errin.vasq...@gmail.comwrote:

We are planning to go too. We'll be coming from Alhambra. We don't have
Rivs though, just a pair of LHTs. We are wannabes still. :)

Errin

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 6:52 PM, cyclotourist cyclotour...@gmail.comwrote:

I hope to be there. Probably going to take Gold LIne in from Pasadena.

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Jim M. mather...@gmail.com wrote:

enjoy the ride,
jim m
wc ca

On May 11, 10:12 am, andrew hill neurod...@gmail.com wrote:
anyone Rivendell-borne going to be doing the LA River Ride?

i'm going to register for the Century later today - it'll be my first
one. :)

think i'm going to use the Sam Hillborne for that... anyone think doing
a century on bullmoose bars could be problematic?

http://la-bike.org/events/los_angeles_river_ride.html

cheers,
andrew

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups RBW Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com
.
For more options, visit this group athttp://
groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

--
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym. ~Bill Nye,
scientist guy

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
RBW Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com
.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

--
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym. ~Bill Nye,
scientist guy

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: 650B dead or alive?

I have a 700D wheel set for the Saluki. Use it in the winter for training 
(w/590 tires. 587s are like hen's teeth).  Nice to know your 650B bike has some 
flexibility.






From: James Valiensi valie...@mac.com
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, May 12, 2010 9:22:16 AM
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: 650B dead or alive?


When the mainstream are on their 650B's I'll be looking for 700D...

Cheers!


  

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: SoCal River Ride?

2010-05-12 Thread andrew hill

that looks like a nice ride - wish i could do that one too.. but working 8a to 
8p or later, 7 days a week these days..  was all i could do to arrange a day 
off for the LA River Ride century.. maybe next year i'll stitch as well :)  

-andrew

On May 12, 2010, at 7:23 AM, cyclotourist wrote:

 Ooops, we're possibly talking about different river rides!!!  Here's the one 
 I'm a-talkin' about :
 
 http://www.bicyclefixation.com/blog/archives/0477.html
 
 
 
 On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 7:20 PM, Errin Vasquez errin.vasq...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 We are planning to go too.  We'll be coming from Alhambra.  We don't have 
 Rivs though, just a pair of LHTs.  We are wannabes still. :)
 
 Errin
 
 
 
 
 On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 6:52 PM, cyclotourist cyclotour...@gmail.com wrote:
 I hope to be there.  Probably going to take Gold LIne in from Pasadena.
 
 On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Jim M. mather...@gmail.com wrote:
 Looks like a good route. No problems with bullmoose or any other non-
 drop bar if you're comfortable with them. Tony (on this list) recently
 rode the very hilly Grizzly Peak Century on his albatrossed
 Hillborne.
 
 enjoy the ride,
 jim m
 wc ca
 
 
 On May 11, 10:12 am, andrew hill neurod...@gmail.com wrote:
  anyone Rivendell-borne going to be doing the LA River Ride?  
 
  i'm going to register for the Century later today - it'll be my first one.  
  :)
 
  think i'm going to use the Sam Hillborne for that... anyone think doing a 
  century on bullmoose bars could be problematic?
 
  http://la-bike.org/events/los_angeles_river_ride.html
 
  cheers,
  andrew
 
  --
  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
  RBW Owners Bunch group.
  To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
  To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
  rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
  For more options, visit this group 
  athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
 
 --
 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group at 
 http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 Cheers,
 David
 Redlands, CA
 
 Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something 
 wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym.  ~Bill Nye, 
 scientist guy
 
 
 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group at 
 http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
 
 
 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group at 
 http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
 
 
 
 -- 
 Cheers,
 David
 Redlands, CA
 
 Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something 
 wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym.  ~Bill Nye, 
 scientist guy
 
 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group at 
 http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: SoCal River Ride?

YIkes, you don't have time to breathe, never mind go on a ride!!! :-(

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 7:36 AM, andrew hill neurod...@gmail.com wrote:

that looks like a nice ride - wish i could do that one too.. but working 8a
to 8p or later, 7 days a week these days.. was all i could do to arrange a
day off for the LA River Ride century.. maybe next year i'll stitch as
well :)

-andrew

On May 12, 2010, at 7:23 AM, cyclotourist wrote:

Ooops, we're possibly talking about different river rides!!! Here's the
one I'm a-talkin' about :

http://www.bicyclefixation.com/blog/archives/0477.html

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 7:20 PM, Errin Vasquez errin.vasq...@gmail.comwrote:

We are planning to go too. We'll be coming from Alhambra. We don't have
Rivs though, just a pair of LHTs. We are wannabes still. :)

Errin

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 6:52 PM, cyclotourist cyclotour...@gmail.comwrote:

I hope to be there. Probably going to take Gold LIne in from Pasadena.

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Jim M. mather...@gmail.com wrote:

enjoy the ride,
jim m
wc ca

On May 11, 10:12 am, andrew hill neurod...@gmail.com wrote:
anyone Rivendell-borne going to be doing the LA River Ride?

i'm going to register for the Century later today - it'll be my first
one. :)

think i'm going to use the Sam Hillborne for that... anyone think
doing a century on bullmoose bars could be problematic?

http://la-bike.org/events/los_angeles_river_ride.html

cheers,
andrew

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups RBW Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to
rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com
.
For more options, visit this group athttp://
groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups RBW Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com
.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

--
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym. ~Bill Nye,
scientist guy

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
RBW Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com
.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

--
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym. ~Bill Nye,
scientist guy

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
RBW Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
RBW Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com
.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

--
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym. ~Bill Nye,
scientist guy

Re: [RBW] Re: SoCal River Ride?

2010-05-12 Thread andrew hill

no kidding.. only for the next 4 or so weeks, though.  

still gotta find some time to train a bit for this century - at the very least 
i'll switch back to bike commuting in a couple days (once a back injury 
subsides), but i'll probably be doing the 100 miles more on determination than 
preparation :)


On May 12, 2010, at 7:50 AM, cyclotourist wrote:

 YIkes, you don't have time to breathe, never mind go on a ride!!! :-(
 
 On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 7:36 AM, andrew hill neurod...@gmail.com wrote:
 that looks like a nice ride - wish i could do that one too.. but working 8a 
 to 8p or later, 7 days a week these days..  was all i could do to arrange a 
 day off for the LA River Ride century.. maybe next year i'll stitch as well 
 :)  
 
 -andrew
 
 On May 12, 2010, at 7:23 AM, cyclotourist wrote:
 
 Ooops, we're possibly talking about different river rides!!!  Here's the one 
 I'm a-talkin' about :
 
 http://www.bicyclefixation.com/blog/archives/0477.html
 
 
 
 On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 7:20 PM, Errin Vasquez errin.vasq...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 We are planning to go too.  We'll be coming from Alhambra.  We don't have 
 Rivs though, just a pair of LHTs.  We are wannabes still. :)
 
 Errin
 
 
 
 
 On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 6:52 PM, cyclotourist cyclotour...@gmail.com wrote:
 I hope to be there.  Probably going to take Gold LIne in from Pasadena.
 
 On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Jim M. mather...@gmail.com wrote:
 Looks like a good route. No problems with bullmoose or any other non-
 drop bar if you're comfortable with them. Tony (on this list) recently
 rode the very hilly Grizzly Peak Century on his albatrossed
 Hillborne.
 
 enjoy the ride,
 jim m
 wc ca
 
 
 On May 11, 10:12 am, andrew hill neurod...@gmail.com wrote:
  anyone Rivendell-borne going to be doing the LA River Ride?  
 
  i'm going to register for the Century later today - it'll be my first one. 
   :)
 
  think i'm going to use the Sam Hillborne for that... anyone think doing a 
  century on bullmoose bars could be problematic?
 
  http://la-bike.org/events/los_angeles_river_ride.html
 
  cheers,
  andrew

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: 650B dead or alive?

2010-05-12 Thread jinxed

Although I had two 650b bikes that are now gone, I certainly was not
fearful of parts availability. But to be certain I never expected rims
and tires to be WIDELY available. I expected it to be a lesser 650c.
Unless your local bike shop specializes in tri bikes, they might have
a pair of tubes, and possibly a dusty tire. Having worked in bike
shops on and off for the last 15 years, it was always an item we
ordered in. Sometimes we had to search 3-4 suppliers before we found
what the customer wanted. I think the niche market is just that. It's
there, but more work is needed to attain entry and generally you pay
for the privilege.

The funny thing is, the bikes that use 650b are in comparison just as,
if not more exclusive. Let's hope they keep making the frames!

Jut random thoughts. Nothing more.

All that said...I have a set of 650b wheels/tires with no home! Chris
King / Dyad / Maxy Fasty. If you need to pile your stock let me know.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: 650B dead or alive?

2010-05-12 Thread Bill Connell

But the basic point is valid, no matter the size. Wasn't there some
note not that long ago that the molds for the Roly-Poly tires was
wearing out and there was a question whether to replace it? Even in a
popular size, parts can be discontinued for various reasons, and it's
not often that a good product is resurrected once the original
manufacturer stops production.

I don't see Jim's post as FUD at all. It's pretty obvious that the
small number of companies who championed 650b 3-4 years ago no longer
have it as a top priority. That's fine, and it doesn't mean that the
size is abandoned, just maybe that it has peaked for the size of the
niche that it has. It seems well-enough established now that many
custom framebuilders would happily build one, even if none of the
mainstream players decide to join in.

Bill


On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 9:13 AM, David Faller dfal...@charter.net wrote:
 I was addressing Grant's quote about how things we like tend to get improved
 out of existence, that's all...

 On 5/12/2010 6:59 AM, Bruce wrote:

 Except JBGs are 700 size rubber


 
 From: David Faller dfal...@charter.net
 To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Wed, May 12, 2010 8:52:37 AM
 Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: 650B dead or alive?

 Then I'd better order two dozen Jack Brown greens ASAP!


-- 
Bill Connell
St. Paul, MN

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: 650B market is plenty alive

2010-05-12 Thread John McMurry

On May 12, 1:33 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com
wrote:
 The discussion about the new Pacenti 650B tires momentarily ventured
 into commentary on the future of 650B. I thought this was worth a
 discussion of its own.

It can be interesting to try to predict the future.

 Two or three years ago we had 650B bikes at Hiawatha Cyclery from at
 least three manufacturers: Rivendell, Kogswell, and Rawland. Now
 Rivendell does 650B only on smaller sizes of certain models,

Not true: Betty Foys’ and Yves Gomez’ are 650b specific.  Also, (and I
know Jim didn't say this) just because Rivendell tends to size the
wheel to the size of the frame on other models doesn't mean Rivendell
is losing interest in any particular wheel size.

 Kogswell
 seems to be on an indefinite hiatus,

That has little to do with 650b.  As I understand it, Longleaf Cycles
plans to pickup that torch.

 and Rawland's new models have
 been displayed at various venues with 622 and 559 wheels (with disc
 brakes, 650B will still be an option).

As far as I know and as advertised on their website, Rawland's frames
are 650b specific.  Showing the frame's versatility with 622 and 559mm
wheelsets at venues may be just that.

 To the extent that 650B has gone mainstream, it is by and large in the
 27.5 wheel size for mountain bikes. It seems like new disc-specific
 rim and fat-knobby tire options are proliferating, but the 650B rim
 and tire options for road bikes have not expanded much, if at all,
 since I first read about 650B in the Rivendell Reader.

Huh?!  That must have been a very, very recent issue.  650b road
options have blossomed since the Riv Reader first mentioned 650b.

 There are some
 small importers/manufacturers like Jan Heine with the Gran Bois and
 now Pacenti with his Pari-Moto, but they have yet to get their tires
 into the QBP catalog or on any Treks. I was pleasantly surprised to
 see another of my mainstream distributors pick up some 650B stuff, but
 again, it was mostly of the MTB variety.

Do small market products have to go mainstream or corporate in order
to maintain?

 I'm not sure Rivendell and a few custom framebuilders can sell enough
 650B bikes to support much expansion, or even maintain current levels
 of the 650B rim/tire selection and availability. Unless the 650B size
 gets picked up by Trek or some other major player, I think its future
 will be at best as a niche item with limited selection and spotty
 availability.

It appears that some folks feel that for a product to continue to be
produced, that it must have exponential sales numbers from year to
year.  While my economics classes are far, far behind me; I just don’t
see that as a necessity.

 I'd encourage 650B bike owners and aficionados to
 stockpile an extra set of rims and a couple sets of favorite tires,
 just in case.

That is a nice suggestion, but it also sparks unwarranted fear.

John McMurry
Burlington, VT

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: 650B market is plenty alive

2010-05-12 Thread Rob Harrison

My take, having just bought my first 650b bike, is that there will  
always be *something* available. We can still get a nice range of  
freewheels, what, 20 years after Trek stopped spec'ing them?


650b was always a niche market in a niche market. I've been in those  
kinds of spaces my whole personal and professional life, and I'm quite  
comfortable there.


And hey, maybe we'll have a big article on 700c conversions in RR 62

Rob in Seattle

On May 12, 2010, at 8:53 AM, John McMurry johnmcmu...@gmail.com wrote:


I'd encourage 650B bike owners and aficionados to
stockpile an extra set of rims and a couple sets of favorite tires,
just in case.


That is a nice suggestion, but it also sparks unwarranted fear.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: 650B market is plenty alive

 We can still get a nice range of freewheels, what, 20 years after Trek 
 stopped spec'ing them?

But Freewheels made up a much larger percentage of the market than
650B ever did.

The more apt comparison is VHS and Beta.  You can still get both, but
VHS is much easier to find than Beta.

On May 12, 11:12 am, Rob Harrison robha...@gmail.com wrote:
 My take, having just bought my first 650b bike, is that there will  
 always be *something* available. We can still get a nice range of  
 freewheels, what, 20 years after Trek stopped spec'ing them?

 650b was always a niche market in a niche market. I've been in those  
 kinds of spaces my whole personal and professional life, and I'm quite  
 comfortable there.

 And hey, maybe we'll have a big article on 700c conversions in RR 62

 Rob in Seattle

 On May 12, 2010, at 8:53 AM, John McMurry johnmcmu...@gmail.com wrote:

  I'd encourage 650B bike owners and aficionados to
  stockpile an extra set of rims and a couple sets of favorite tires,
  just in case.

  That is a nice suggestion, but it also sparks unwarranted fear.

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group 
 athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: 650B market is plenty alive

2010-05-12 Thread Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery

Huh?!  That must have been a very, very recent issue.  650b road
options have blossomed since the Riv Reader first mentioned 650b.

No this was several years ago, when the Saluki/Wilbury/Glorius/Bleriot
650B bikes were first being discussed. Grant mentioned several 650B
tires apparently available at the time that I have never actually seen
in person (under the brands Michelin, Mitsuboshi, etc). Our 650B stock
and sales are limited to the same tires that Riv sells now, all of
which have been around for several years (CdlV, NS/MF, FR, a couple
Schwalbes). All have limited distribution channels and often spotty
availability. I hear the GB tires are wonderful, but the combination
of high price, low margin, and even lower sales volume means that it's
not something I plan to stock. I'm hopeful that the Pacenti tire will
be more feasible for me to have in stock (i.e. available through QBP),
but I haven't laid my hands on any yet. I'm not sure I'd describe this
as a set of options that has blossomed. Seems to me that there is a
very small handful of people/companies (Grant, Jan, VO) who could
shift priorities in life, and the 650B supply would quickly get pretty
thin.


On May 12, 10:53 am, John McMurry johnmcmu...@gmail.com wrote:
 On May 12, 1:33 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com
 wrote:

  The discussion about the new Pacenti 650B tires momentarily ventured
  into commentary on the future of 650B. I thought this was worth a
  discussion of its own.

 It can be interesting to try to predict the future.

  Two or three years ago we had 650B bikes at Hiawatha Cyclery from at
  least three manufacturers: Rivendell, Kogswell, and Rawland. Now
  Rivendell does 650B only on smaller sizes of certain models,

 Not true: Betty Foys’ and Yves Gomez’ are 650b specific.  Also, (and I
 know Jim didn't say this) just because Rivendell tends to size the
 wheel to the size of the frame on other models doesn't mean Rivendell
 is losing interest in any particular wheel size.

  Kogswell
  seems to be on an indefinite hiatus,

 That has little to do with 650b.  As I understand it, Longleaf Cycles
 plans to pickup that torch.

  and Rawland's new models have
  been displayed at various venues with 622 and 559 wheels (with disc
  brakes, 650B will still be an option).

 As far as I know and as advertised on their website, Rawland's frames
 are 650b specific.  Showing the frame's versatility with 622 and 559mm
 wheelsets at venues may be just that.

  To the extent that 650B has gone mainstream, it is by and large in the
  27.5 wheel size for mountain bikes. It seems like new disc-specific
  rim and fat-knobby tire options are proliferating, but the 650B rim
  and tire options for road bikes have not expanded much, if at all,
  since I first read about 650B in the Rivendell Reader.

 Huh?!  That must have been a very, very recent issue.  650b road
 options have blossomed since the Riv Reader first mentioned 650b.

  There are some
  small importers/manufacturers like Jan Heine with the Gran Bois and
  now Pacenti with his Pari-Moto, but they have yet to get their tires
  into the QBP catalog or on any Treks. I was pleasantly surprised to
  see another of my mainstream distributors pick up some 650B stuff, but
  again, it was mostly of the MTB variety.

 Do small market products have to go mainstream or corporate in order
 to maintain?

  I'm not sure Rivendell and a few custom framebuilders can sell enough
  650B bikes to support much expansion, or even maintain current levels
  of the 650B rim/tire selection and availability. Unless the 650B size
  gets picked up by Trek or some other major player, I think its future
  will be at best as a niche item with limited selection and spotty
  availability.

 It appears that some folks feel that for a product to continue to be
 produced, that it must have exponential sales numbers from year to
 year.  While my economics classes are far, far behind me; I just don’t
 see that as a necessity.

  I'd encourage 650B bike owners and aficionados to
  stockpile an extra set of rims and a couple sets of favorite tires,
  just in case.

 That is a nice suggestion, but it also sparks unwarranted fear.

 John McMurry
 Burlington, VT

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group 
 athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: 650B market is plenty alive

2010-05-12 Thread NickBull

Actually, when one of our VHS players broke, recently, I couldn't find
a replacement at Best Buy, Sears, or Target, except for more-expensive
($100) dual-purpose machines that combine tape and DVD.

Nick

On May 12, 12:35 pm, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote:
  We can still get a nice range of freewheels, what, 20 years after Trek 
  stopped spec'ing them?

 But Freewheels made up a much larger percentage of the market than
 650B ever did.

 The more apt comparison is VHS and Beta.  You can still get both, but
 VHS is much easier to find than Beta.

 On May 12, 11:12 am, Rob Harrison robha...@gmail.com wrote:



  My take, having just bought my first 650b bike, is that there will  
  always be *something* available. We can still get a nice range of  
  freewheels, what, 20 years after Trek stopped spec'ing them?

  650b was always a niche market in a niche market. I've been in those  
  kinds of spaces my whole personal and professional life, and I'm quite  
  comfortable there.

  And hey, maybe we'll have a big article on 700c conversions in RR 62

  Rob in Seattle

  On May 12, 2010, at 8:53 AM, John McMurry johnmcmu...@gmail.com wrote:

   I'd encourage 650B bike owners and aficionados to
   stockpile an extra set of rims and a couple sets of favorite tires,
   just in case.

   That is a nice suggestion, but it also sparks unwarranted fear.

  --
  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
  RBW Owners Bunch group.
  To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
  To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
  rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
  For more options, visit this group 
  athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group 
 athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: Nitto Highrider front rack vs. Big Front Rack vs. Low Riders

2010-05-12 Thread doug peterson

Lisa:

One solution to the lack of mid fork eyelets on the Atlantis is to
simply add them as needed.  I've added standard rack hourglass eyelets
to the front of the fork legs for the Nitto small rack, and another
pair on the rear of the legs for the low rider rack I add for loaded
tours.  My Atlantis is 58 cm so everything has to come off to
pack'n'ship for a remote start tour.  I got sick of the Rubik's cube
problem of installing my bolt together front rack with U-clamps.

One caution is to locate the eyelets for maximum versatility in case
you may change racks.  See the TouringStore.com website for detailed
info but all racks are not alike.  This is the voice of experience as
I'm about to add another set of eyelets for my new rack.  BTW, the
paint job is history when you do this but Testors makes an almost
perfect match for the Atlantis color.  It fools most everyone except
my fussy Riv buds.

dougP

On May 12, 6:44 am, Ray Shine r.sh...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
 Yes, Lisa, I see what you mean. It still seems like a good design, and I 
 wouldn't be overly concerned about using a clamp to attach it to a fork.  If 
 all the bolts on the rack itself are tight, it becomes virtually rigid, and 
 the clamp won't slide down.  It won't slide down rapidly in any event, so 
 routine check and bolt snugging will certainly catch a slip.  I actually had 
 more trouble with my rear rack working loose where the struts from the brake 
 bridge connected to the rack.  I ended up using two zip ties to hold the rack 
 from slipping back on the struts.  That held trouble-free for he next 2,000 
 miles.  Go figure…

 
 From: Lisa ukulele.l...@mac.com
 To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Tue, May 11, 2010 5:46:27 PM
 Subject: [RBW] Re: Nitto Highrider front rack vs. Big Front Rack vs. Low  
 Riders

 Ray -- yes, the Nitto Big Front Rack is rigid, and therefore OK with
 clamps.  But the Nova is not rigid, according to Tubus' web 
 site:http://www.tubus.com/en/lowrider/nova In the diagram on the right,
 the Nova pannier support arm is marked adjustable with arcs to show
 where it pivots.

 I do believe there are some rigid designs of lowriders out there --
 Bruce Gordon's, for instance.

 Lisa

 On May 11, 7:03 pm, Ray Shine r.sh...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

  Lisa --- that isn't a concern because the rack is rigid and can't collapse 
  onto itself. The only thong the p- clamp does is prevent the rack from 
  falling forward or rearward.  If the bottom of the rack is attached to 
  eyelets, then the rack cannot slide down any further since it is a rigid 
  structure.

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group 
 athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group 
 athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: Nitto Highrider front rack vs. Big Front Rack vs. Low Riders

2010-05-12 Thread Mojo

For my touring bike, a Surly LHT, I use a Nitto M12 on top and Tubus
Duo lowriders below. I like this setup alot, functionally and
aesthetically.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/79695...@n00/4601203765/in/set-72157607471577085/
The Duo does require a fork threaded on both sides, and an upper to
lower brazeon distance of precisely 6.5 inches, so its a bit specific.

I rode a Nitto Highrider front rack for a awhile on my Allrounder.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/79695...@n00/4601769640/in/set-72157607471577085/
But I have gone to a M12 rack on that bike too (to carry the handlebar
bag). The rack braze-ons on this bike are ~8.5 inches from the
dropout, but the rack is more adjustable than the Duo.

After hanging in the garage for 2 years, the Nitto Highrider rack is
for sale: $100 shipped in the lower 48 states. It is lightly used, no
dings or scratches. No hardware included (4 water bottle bolts will
attach it), but there is a white reflector attached and silver
reflective tape on much of the front facing tubes.


On Apr 26, 10:57 pm, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote:
 Does anybody have any experience comparing these three?

 René

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group 
 athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] 650b rims

2010-05-12 Thread Grant Petersen

It's easy for any rimmer to make  'em. Easier to make rims than tires, since
no new molds or bladders (tools) needed. It's just a matter of where you cut
the extrustion before rolling it. The roller tool that determines the radius
--- is dialinable. We've rec'd sample rims in odder-than-650B diameters,
with variations marked one, two, and three mm different. Good evidence of
the ease widwich the rimmer can do dese rims.

Velocity is the main doer because there's not a lotta layers btw us (for
instance) and the deciders. It's John (in the US) and Tom (in Aus)  Black,
and we have phones and emails going to them, and they always respond right
now,

In udder companies, there's a fortress of bureaucracy guarding the decision
makers, who are thousands of miles away anyway, with foreign-language
speaking fortresses of frther burea guarding them. They appear at trade
shows now and then, but talk only to their guards, even if they speak
English (which, no marks against them if they don't). So all in all, not so
easy to get through.

All they're told is what the big trends are, and all they care about is
volume. This is the opposite of how it is at Velocity. Tom and John Black
are right there and care, and are hungry, willing, inquisitive, and able. It
probably helps that they're a young company, and even their Australianism
may help. Other rimmers are Zoo Club Foundation Bureaucrats, and Tom and
John are Steve Irwins. If you knew them like I do, you'd see how accurate
that description is. (It may be only slightly harsh others, but it's deadly
accurate about the Blacks).

I can see why Jim's concerned, but I hope he's not anymore. I'm not
concerned, and Riv will continue to stock and support 650B, and I think what
we're seeing is just a slow snowball. It would be great if the biggies
hopped on, but the movement isn't big enough yet for their myopicality, so
Velocity continues to be our savior. They're a good one to have, and maybe
it's time to pattemonda back with some thanku emails.

j...@velocity.com.

Flood him!

-- 
Grant
Rivendell Bicycle Works
www.rivbike.com
925 933 7304

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] A Sam Hillborne Review

2010-05-12 Thread Bryan @ Renaissance Bicycles

I don't think Michael is lurking here at the RBW Owners Bunch, so I
thought linking to his Hillborne review might be helpful to those
considering the bike:

http://mdoleman.blogspot.com/2010/05/rivendell-sam-hillborne.html

All I can say is that we've come to the same conclusions ... the
Hillborne is perfect for just about everything.

Bryan

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: 650B market is plenty alive

2010-05-12 Thread John McMurry

On May 12, 12:46 pm, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
thill@gmail.com wrote:
 Huh?!  That must have been a very, very recent issue.  650b road
 options have blossomed since the Riv Reader first mentioned 650b.

 No this was several years ago, when the Saluki/Wilbury/Glorius/Bleriot
 650B bikes were first being discussed.

There are several scattered years between those frame discussions.  In
my recollection, the Readers started seriously discussing 650b about 6
or 7 years ago.

 Grant mentioned several 650B
 tires apparently available at the time that I have never actually seen
 in person (under the brands Michelin, Mitsuboshi, etc).

About 6 years ago, this is what was generally available:

Schwalbe HS 159,
Mitsuboshi Trimline,
Panaracer Col de la Vie and,
Michelin Megamium.

 Our 650B stock
 and sales are limited to the same tires that Riv sells now, all of
 which have been around for several years (CdlV, NS/MF, FR, a couple
 Schwalbes). All have limited distribution channels and often spotty
 availability. I hear the GB tires are wonderful, but the combination
 of high price, low margin, and even lower sales volume means that it's
 not something I plan to stock.

Where our differences lie is probably due to the seats we sit in.  As
a consumer, I needn't worry about stocking, margins, and volume,
whereas as a merchant, I would.

 I'm hopeful that the Pacenti tire will
 be more feasible for me to have in stock (i.e. available through QBP),
 but I haven't laid my hands on any yet.

I just got word my LBS's have them in hand.  I hope to buy a pair this
week.  I'd guess your shipment is near.

 I'm not sure I'd describe this
 as a set of options that has blossomed.

No?  Here are the 584mm road tires consumers have available now:

Schwalbe HS 159,
Schwalbe Marathon,
Panaracer Col de la Vie,
Sunlite Street Tire,
Panaracer Nifty Swifty,
Panaracer Maxy Fasty,
Panaracer Fatty Rumpkin,
Panaracer/SOMA New Xpress,
Grand Bois Cypres,
Grand Bois Ourson,
Grand Bois Hetre,
Pacenti Pari-Moto,
Nokian A10.

I'd think that quantitatively, that qualifies near a blossom.

 Seems to me that there is a
 very small handful of people/companies (Grant, Jan, VO) who could
 shift priorities in life, and the 650B supply would quickly get pretty
 thin.

Sure, Riv, Grand Bois, VO, Schwalbe, Pacenti, Panaracer, and
Continental could all simultaneously shift priorities, but that
doesn't change the demand.  I'd bet somebody would seize that
opportunity.

John McMurry
Burlington, VT

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] A Sam Hillborne Review

2010-05-12 Thread Seth Vidal

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Bryan @ Renaissance Bicycles
renaissancebicyc...@gmail.com wrote:
 I don't think Michael is lurking here at the RBW Owners Bunch, so I
 thought linking to his Hillborne review might be helpful to those
 considering the bike:

 http://mdoleman.blogspot.com/2010/05/rivendell-sam-hillborne.html

 All I can say is that we've come to the same conclusions ... the
 Hillborne is perfect for just about everything.


Okay - I have to ask - what was the flaw he mentions?

-sv

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: 650B market is plenty alive

 Actually, when one of our VHS players broke, recently, I couldn't find
 a replacement at Best Buy, Sears, or Target, except for more-expensive
 ($100) dual-purpose machines that combine tape and DVD.

I was thinking more the aftermarket.  Just as there are many NOS or
otherwise workable freewheels available on eBay so to there are many
NOS VHS.  You can find Beta aftermarket and you can find 650B
aftermarket.  Depending what you want though, the look can take a lot
of effort.

To your point, however, there is at least one mainstream - IRdD -
company making freewheels and they are readily available.

On May 12, 11:58 am, NickBull nick.bike.b...@gmail.com wrote:
 Actually, when one of our VHS players broke, recently, I couldn't find
 a replacement at Best Buy, Sears, or Target, except for more-expensive
 ($100) dual-purpose machines that combine tape and DVD.

 Nick

 On May 12, 12:35 pm, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote:





   We can still get a nice range of freewheels, what, 20 years after Trek 
   stopped spec'ing them?

  But Freewheels made up a much larger percentage of the market than
  650B ever did.

  The more apt comparison is VHS and Beta.  You can still get both, but
  VHS is much easier to find than Beta.

  On May 12, 11:12 am, Rob Harrison robha...@gmail.com wrote:

   My take, having just bought my first 650b bike, is that there will  
   always be *something* available. We can still get a nice range of  
   freewheels, what, 20 years after Trek stopped spec'ing them?

   650b was always a niche market in a niche market. I've been in those  
   kinds of spaces my whole personal and professional life, and I'm quite  
   comfortable there.

   And hey, maybe we'll have a big article on 700c conversions in RR 62

   Rob in Seattle

   On May 12, 2010, at 8:53 AM, John McMurry johnmcmu...@gmail.com wrote:

I'd encourage 650B bike owners and aficionados to
stockpile an extra set of rims and a couple sets of favorite tires,
just in case.

That is a nice suggestion, but it also sparks unwarranted fear.

   --
   You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
   RBW Owners Bunch group.
   To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
   To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
   rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
   For more options, visit this group 
   athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

  --
  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
  RBW Owners Bunch group.
  To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
  To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
  rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
  For more options, visit this group 
  athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group 
 athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -

 - Show quoted text -

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: 650B market is plenty alive

 No?  Here are the 584mm road tires consumers have available now:

To Jim's point, I recently was in the market for a 40 hole 650b rim.
I did not find any current makes.  Fortunately, Jan Heine had one NOS
set of Mavic MA-1s he was willing to sell.  Otherwise I would not have
been able to use the hubs I had in mind.

On May 12, 12:59 pm, John McMurry johnmcmu...@gmail.com wrote:
 On May 12, 12:46 pm, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery

 thill@gmail.com wrote:
  Huh?!  That must have been a very, very recent issue.  650b road
  options have blossomed since the Riv Reader first mentioned 650b.

  No this was several years ago, when the Saluki/Wilbury/Glorius/Bleriot
  650B bikes were first being discussed.

 There are several scattered years between those frame discussions.  In
 my recollection, the Readers started seriously discussing 650b about 6
 or 7 years ago.

  Grant mentioned several 650B
  tires apparently available at the time that I have never actually seen
  in person (under the brands Michelin, Mitsuboshi, etc).

 About 6 years ago, this is what was generally available:

 Schwalbe HS 159,
 Mitsuboshi Trimline,
 Panaracer Col de la Vie and,
 Michelin Megamium.

  Our 650B stock
  and sales are limited to the same tires that Riv sells now, all of
  which have been around for several years (CdlV, NS/MF, FR, a couple
  Schwalbes). All have limited distribution channels and often spotty
  availability. I hear the GB tires are wonderful, but the combination
  of high price, low margin, and even lower sales volume means that it's
  not something I plan to stock.

 Where our differences lie is probably due to the seats we sit in.  As
 a consumer, I needn't worry about stocking, margins, and volume,
 whereas as a merchant, I would.

  I'm hopeful that the Pacenti tire will
  be more feasible for me to have in stock (i.e. available through QBP),
  but I haven't laid my hands on any yet.

 I just got word my LBS's have them in hand.  I hope to buy a pair this
 week.  I'd guess your shipment is near.

  I'm not sure I'd describe this
  as a set of options that has blossomed.

 No?  Here are the 584mm road tires consumers have available now:

 Schwalbe HS 159,
 Schwalbe Marathon,
 Panaracer Col de la Vie,
 Sunlite Street Tire,
 Panaracer Nifty Swifty,
 Panaracer Maxy Fasty,
 Panaracer Fatty Rumpkin,
 Panaracer/SOMA New Xpress,
 Grand Bois Cypres,
 Grand Bois Ourson,
 Grand Bois Hetre,
 Pacenti Pari-Moto,
 Nokian A10.

 I'd think that quantitatively, that qualifies near a blossom.

  Seems to me that there is a
  very small handful of people/companies (Grant, Jan, VO) who could
  shift priorities in life, and the 650B supply would quickly get pretty
  thin.

 Sure, Riv, Grand Bois, VO, Schwalbe, Pacenti, Panaracer, and
 Continental could all simultaneously shift priorities, but that
 doesn't change the demand.  I'd bet somebody would seize that
 opportunity.

 John McMurry
 Burlington, VT

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group 
 athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] 650b rims

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Grant Petersen gr...@rivbike.com wrote:

 It's easy for any rimmer to make  'em. Easier to make rims than tires,
 since no new molds or bladders (tools) needed. It's just a matter of where
 you cut the extrustion before rolling it. The roller tool that determines
 the radius --- is dialinable. We've rec'd sample rims in odder-than-650B
 diameters, with variations marked one, two, and three mm different. Good
 evidence of the ease widwich the rimmer can do dese rims.

 Velocity is the main doer because there's not a lotta layers btw us (for
 instance) and the deciders. It's John (in the US) and Tom (in Aus)  Black,
 and we have phones and emails going to them, and they always respond right
 now,

 In udder companies, there's a fortress of bureaucracy guarding the decision
 makers, who are thousands of miles away anyway, with foreign-language
 speaking fortresses of frther burea guarding them. They appear at trade
 shows now and then, but talk only to their guards, even if they speak
 English (which, no marks against them if they don't). So all in all, not so
 easy to get through.

 All they're told is what the big trends are, and all they care about is
 volume. This is the opposite of how it is at Velocity. Tom and John Black
 are right there and care, and are hungry, willing, inquisitive, and able. It
 probably helps that they're a young company, and even their Australianism
 may help. Other rimmers are Zoo Club Foundation Bureaucrats, and Tom and
 John are Steve Irwins. If you knew them like I do, you'd see how accurate
 that description is. (It may be only slightly harsh others, but it's deadly
 accurate about the Blacks).

 I can see why Jim's concerned, but I hope he's not anymore. I'm not
 concerned, and Riv will continue to stock and support 650B, and I think what
 we're seeing is just a slow snowball. It would be great if the biggies
 hopped on, but the movement isn't big enough yet for their myopicality, so
 Velocity continues to be our savior. They're a good one to have, and maybe
 it's time to pattemonda back with some thanku emails.

 j...@velocity.com.

 Flood him!

 --
 Grant
 Rivendell Bicycle Works
 www.rivbike.com
 925 933 7304


Not 650b specific, but Velocity Aeroheads are my favorite rims ever.  Just
great.  Strong, light, straight.  Their forthcoming A23 rim (a 23mm wide
Aerohead) may turn out to be the perfect rim.  I suggest folks check them
out if you're planning on buying/building some new wheels!  Would be great
in 650b size... hint, hint.


-- 
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym.  ~Bill Nye,
scientist guy

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: 650B market is plenty alive

2010-05-12 Thread John McMurry

On May 12, 2:05 pm, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote:
  No?  Here are the 584mm road tires consumers have available now:

 To Jim's point, I recently was in the market for a 40 hole 650b rim.
 I did not find any current makes.  

According to the original post, Jim's point is that the future of 650b
is uncertain due to his recent observations.  That you can't find a 40-
hole, 650b rim is an entirely different point.

John McMurry
Burlington, VT

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Sam Hillborne Review Images

2010-05-12 Thread Michael Doleman

Hello all, I wrote-up a brief review of my Sam Hillborne, and posted
some photos of my build:

http://mdoleman.blogspot.com/2010/05/rivendell-sam-hillborne.html

http://www.flickr.com/photos/michaeldoleman/sets/72157623968359380/

Cheers,

Michael Doleman

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] FS: A. Homer Hilsen with SS couplers 63cm

2010-05-12 Thread Blindrobert

Near mint condition, only showing the usual signs of wear around the
dropouts.  No crashes, nice and straight.  SS installed by Bilenky
with an immaculate paint job.  Includes cable splitters and
proprietary SS wrench. Pics on request - I will update with a  link
to a flickr pic later tonight.

$1800

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: 650B market is plenty alive

Add the Continental Tour Ride also in 42mm and 54 mm





 Schwalbe HS 159,
 Schwalbe Marathon,
 Panaracer Col de la Vie,
 Sunlite Street Tire,
 Panaracer Nifty Swifty,
 Panaracer Maxy Fasty,
 Panaracer Fatty Rumpkin,
 Panaracer/SOMA New Xpress,
 Grand Bois Cypres,
 Grand Bois Ourson,
 Grand Bois Hetre,
 Pacenti Pari-Moto,
 Nokian A10.

 I



  

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] FS: Paul Racer High Polish Braze On brake set

2010-05-12 Thread dmolloy

I've had these for a while now, still sitting in the box and it's time
to pass them on.  Brand new Paul Racers (2 wheels worth) in the
original long reach configuration in high polish for brazed on posts,
not the center mount version.  I'd like to get $200 shipped in the
CONUS. Retail is $130 per wheel plus shipping and tax

Thanks,

Daniel
415-832-0335

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: 650B market is plenty alive

 According to the original post, Jim's point is that the future of 650b
 is uncertain due to his recent observations.  That you can't find a 40-
 hole, 650b rim is an entirely different point.

Seems like we are splitting hairs here.

Certainly it underscores that 650b is not as well supported as other
wheel sizes, which is the take away I get from Jim's point.

And why I at least think is does make sense to buy a spare set of 650b
rims and tires that fit my long term plans as I come across them.

On May 12, 1:12 pm, John McMurry johnmcmu...@gmail.com wrote:
 On May 12, 2:05 pm, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote:

   No?  Here are the 584mm road tires consumers have available now:

  To Jim's point, I recently was in the market for a 40 hole 650b rim.
  I did not find any current makes.  

 According to the original post, Jim's point is that the future of 650b
 is uncertain due to his recent observations.  That you can't find a 40-
 hole, 650b rim is an entirely different point.

 John McMurry
 Burlington, VT

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group 
 athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: 650b rims

2010-05-12 Thread Aaron Thomas

I was thinking exactly the same thing. Velocity did that limited run
of 650B Aeroheads for those who wanted a lightweight 650B option. But
the 19 or 20mm Aerohead maybe didn't make too much sense for 650B
tires over 35mm.

But an A23 (at 23mm width) in 650B would be make a lot of sense. It's
as light as the Aerohead and lighter than the Synergy, even though
it's the same width. In that regard it would make a perfect match for
Pacenti's Pari-Moto tires. You'd have some lightweight wheels and
lightweight event tires.

Kind folks at Velocity: what say you? Howzabout an A23 in 650B?

Aaron

On May 12, 11:06 am, cyclotourist cyclotour...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Grant Petersen gr...@rivbike.com wrote:
  It's easy for any rimmer to make  'em. Easier to make rims than tires,
  since no new molds or bladders (tools) needed. It's just a matter of where
  you cut the extrustion before rolling it. The roller tool that determines
  the radius --- is dialinable. We've rec'd sample rims in odder-than-650B
  diameters, with variations marked one, two, and three mm different. Good
  evidence of the ease widwich the rimmer can do dese rims.

  Velocity is the main doer because there's not a lotta layers btw us (for
  instance) and the deciders. It's John (in the US) and Tom (in Aus)  Black,
  and we have phones and emails going to them, and they always respond right
  now,

  In udder companies, there's a fortress of bureaucracy guarding the decision
  makers, who are thousands of miles away anyway, with foreign-language
  speaking fortresses of frther burea guarding them. They appear at trade
  shows now and then, but talk only to their guards, even if they speak
  English (which, no marks against them if they don't). So all in all, not so
  easy to get through.

  All they're told is what the big trends are, and all they care about is
  volume. This is the opposite of how it is at Velocity. Tom and John Black
  are right there and care, and are hungry, willing, inquisitive, and able. It
  probably helps that they're a young company, and even their Australianism
  may help. Other rimmers are Zoo Club Foundation Bureaucrats, and Tom and
  John are Steve Irwins. If you knew them like I do, you'd see how accurate
  that description is. (It may be only slightly harsh others, but it's deadly
  accurate about the Blacks).

  I can see why Jim's concerned, but I hope he's not anymore. I'm not
  concerned, and Riv will continue to stock and support 650B, and I think what
  we're seeing is just a slow snowball. It would be great if the biggies
  hopped on, but the movement isn't big enough yet for their myopicality, so
  Velocity continues to be our savior. They're a good one to have, and maybe
  it's time to pattemonda back with some thanku emails.

  j...@velocity.com.

  Flood him!

  --
  Grant
  Rivendell Bicycle Works
 www.rivbike.com
  925 933 7304

 Not 650b specific, but Velocity Aeroheads are my favorite rims ever.  Just
 great.  Strong, light, straight.  Their forthcoming A23 rim (a 23mm wide
 Aerohead) may turn out to be the perfect rim.  I suggest folks check them
 out if you're planning on buying/building some new wheels!  Would be great
 in 650b size... hint, hint.

 --
 Cheers,
 David
 Redlands, CA

 Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something
 wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym.  ~Bill Nye,
 scientist guy

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group 
 athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: 650b rims

2010-05-12 Thread Patrick in VT

On May 12, 2:38 pm, Aaron Thomas aaron.a.tho...@gmail.com wrote:
 I was thinking exactly the same thing. Velocity did that limited run
 of 650B Aeroheads for those who wanted a lightweight 650B option. But
 the 19 or 20mm Aerohead maybe didn't make too much sense for 650B
 tires over 35mm.

i have a 650b aerohead wheelset (and some spare rims) - they're great
with the grand bois cypres and i've had no issues with running the
hetre on them.  YMMV, and all that, but I'll be putting the pari-moto
on them for this weekend's riding.

anyway, David is right - it's a nice rim, and it'd be great if was a
permanent option.




-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: Recent Visit to Rivendell

2010-05-12 Thread Beardpapa

Thanks!  We rode to the nearby open space a couple miles from the
rivendell headquarters.

On May 11, 10:30 am, manueljohnacosta manueljohnaco...@hotmail.com
wrote:
 Great photos! Where'd you take the bike too?

 On May 10, 7:59 pm, Beardpapa gts...@gmail.com wrote:





  Thanks Tony.  Just threw up some more images!

  Here's what a 48cm Hunqapillar looks like next to a 
  62http://www.flickr.com/photos/gideon/4596993435/

  On May 10, 7:57 pm, Tony tony.m...@astound.net wrote:

   Great group of photos Gideon; very wistful and dream-like. I've looked
   at the set three times now. More!

   Tony

   On May 10, 11:41 am, Beardpapa gts...@gmail.com wrote:

My buddy and I had a great visit out to Rivendell.  Jay and Grant were
generously gracious hosts.  Grant and I talked photography and he
showed us the new darkroom they're putting in.  We took a Bombadil and
Hunqapillar out to the nearby open space along with a fellow Riv owner
from NY for a couple hours.  Great company with passionate staff
creating a community around cycling.

Here are some photos (with more to come):

   http://www.flickr.com/photos/gideon/sets/72157623894648885/

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups RBW Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group 
athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

   --
   You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
   RBW Owners Bunch group.
   To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
   To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
   rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
   For more options, visit this group 
   athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

  --
  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
  RBW Owners Bunch group.
  To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
  To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
  rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
  For more options, visit this group 
  athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group 
 athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: Nitto Highrider front rack vs. Big Front Rack vs. Low Riders

2010-05-12 Thread doug peterson

Mojo:

That's exactly the rack set-up I'll have shortly.  An hourglass eyelet
on the back side of the fork blade will pick up one set of the Tubus'
upper mounting holes.  A spacer is necessary to make it a solid
mount.  Another option is water bottle mounts thru the fork blades but
Rivendell does not recommend drilling holes in their forks.  Don't
know how the tubing used on an Atlantis fork compares to that of an
LHT but one would think they'd be quite similar.

The beauty of the Duo is the ease of packing  shipping.  My Nitto Big
Rear Rack requires careful packing to get everything in the shipping
box.  I love Nitto racks, functionally  aesthetically, but needed
something simpler  more compact.

dougP

On May 12, 10:01 am, Mojo gjtra...@yahoo.com wrote:
 For my touring bike, a Surly LHT, I use a Nitto M12 on top and Tubus
 Duo lowriders below. I like this setup alot, functionally and
 aesthetically.http://www.flickr.com/photos/79695...@n00/4601203765/in/set-721576074...
 The Duo does require a fork threaded on both sides, and an upper to
 lower brazeon distance of precisely 6.5 inches, so its a bit specific.

 I rode a Nitto Highrider front rack for a awhile on my 
 Allrounder.http://www.flickr.com/photos/79695...@n00/4601769640/in/set-721576074...
 But I have gone to a M12 rack on that bike too (to carry the handlebar
 bag). The rack braze-ons on this bike are ~8.5 inches from the
 dropout, but the rack is more adjustable than the Duo.

 After hanging in the garage for 2 years, the Nitto Highrider rack is
 for sale: $100 shipped in the lower 48 states. It is lightly used, no
 dings or scratches. No hardware included (4 water bottle bolts will
 attach it), but there is a white reflector attached and silver
 reflective tape on much of the front facing tubes.

 On Apr 26, 10:57 pm, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote:

  Does anybody have any experience comparing these three?

  René

  --
  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
  RBW Owners Bunch group.
  To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
  To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
  rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
  For more options, visit this group 
  athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group 
 athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: Recent Visit to Rivendell

2010-05-12 Thread Jim M.

Nice photos! The vignetting looks like a Holga but the pictures are
too sharp. What's the camera?

jim m
wc ca

On May 12, 12:31 pm, Beardpapa gts...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thanks!  We rode to the nearby open space a couple miles from the
 rivendell headquarters.


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: Recent Visit to Rivendell

2010-05-12 Thread Bill Gibson

photoshop?

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Jim M. mather...@gmail.com wrote:

 Nice photos! The vignetting looks like a Holga but the pictures are
 too sharp. What's the camera?

 jim m
 wc ca

 On May 12, 12:31 pm, Beardpapa gts...@gmail.com wrote:
  Thanks!  We rode to the nearby open space a couple miles from the
  rivendell headquarters.
 

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com
 .
 For more options, visit this group at
 http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.




-- 
Bill Gibson
Tempe, Arizona, USA

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

[RBW] Re: FS: A. Homer Hilsen with SS couplers 63cm

2010-05-12 Thread Ron MH

That sounds like a super bike. I've been told that it can be difficult
to get a large bike with SS couplers broken down small enough to fit
in the appropriate travel case. Apparently, the smaller frames are a
piece of cake; the larger frames not so much. What has been your
experience?

On May 12, 9:24 am, Blindrobert roberto.cipri...@gmail.com wrote:
 Near mint condition, only showing the usual signs of wear around the
 dropouts.  No crashes, nice and straight.  SS installed by Bilenky
 with an immaculate paint job.  Includes cable splitters and
 proprietary SS wrench. Pics on request - I will update with a  link
 to a flickr pic later tonight.

 $1800

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 RBW Owners Bunch group.
 To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
 rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 For more options, visit this group 
 athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.

Re: [RBW] Re: 650b rims