[RBW] need noodles ,technomic

[Lum Gim Fong]

I have a 7cm tallux for sale less than 300 miles on it. if interested pm me,

I have a nitto m151f bar for sale also, if that would work.

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[RBW] Re: and a triple crank?

[Lum Gim Fong]

The triples Rivbike has advocated over the years is usually 26/36/46 or 
24/36/46 for those XD2 models.

Not sure about their Silver set.

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[RBW] Re: FS

[Neil Doran]

Wot size, looks like 559?

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[RBW] Re: and a triple crank?

[Bill Schairer]

Add a 45 to that and you have it even better.

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Re: [RBW] Re: It Was the Worst of Times, It Was the Best of Times

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Oh, Ryan, when you find somethng you really love, isn’t it infectious? I’m so 
glad I have you all because it’s so much sweeter when shared. I know you are as 
happy for my BIL as I am, and that means so much. I’ve learned heaps here, and 
I’m so grateful to the list. So, thank you!  

The joke in our family is how alike D and I are - we share most of the same 
preferences (for everything from bold colors to jokes to aesthetics), and of 
course we both adore Heather. Now that we have Rivendells, we feel like we are 
in an exclusive club and we’ve really outdone the rest of the family with our 
superior bicycles 藍. 
 
Those 2 kids are celebrating 10 years of marriage, and I think they should get 
matching Rivendells. Heather took his Clem for a spin tomight and loved it; I 
fear her old bike will never measure up now. “Anniversary Rivs: Celebrate the 
fellowship of your ring.” There, Grant, write that down. That was profound!

Thanks again for celebrating with us!

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[RBW] Re: West Point Inn Invite - June 22 and 23

[ted]

This sounds like an event I bought into a few years back. Might have been the 
first in the series? Anyway it was a great time. If I weren’t already obligated 
elsewhere I’d be jumping on it. I strongly recommend that anybody who’s able to 
go should go. 

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[RBW] Re: Austin Ride Recommendations from Downtown?

[Ron Mc]

electrolytes really help with the heat, and I keep Smart Water in my water 
bottles. 
San Antonio hasn't blocked off downtown blocks and given them to bikes as 
Austin has done, but downtown is quite bike-friendly, and *San Antonio's 
greenway system and The Mission Trail 
*
 
have surpassed what Austin offers - they're working on connecting them all

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 2:35:09 PM UTC-5, David B wrote:
>
> Thanks for the recommendations! I hadn't even thought about a bike on this 
> trip, just didn't realize Austin was so bike friendly and there were trails 
> right out of downtown. Had I known, I would've tried to bring a bike with 
> me. 
> I did get a B-cycle 3-day pass, which was a reasonable $18. The bikes 
> themselves took a bit to adjust to, but ended up being alright getting me 
> around. They don't seem to be consistently maintained though. At a docking 
> station, I'd have to check tire pressures to select a bike as most had too 
> low pressure to be safely ridden imo.
> I explored downtown and East Austin a bit by bike and did a loop of Lady 
> Bird Lake. The heat wasn't something I was used to, so I got in less rides 
> than I wanted, but it was fun. 
> Austin is definitely now on my list of places to visit with a bike in tow.
> David
>
> On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 7:36:05 AM UTC-5, David B wrote:
>>
>> Should've asked this a week ago, but now that I'm here, wondering if 
>> there's any Austin-ites(?) on this list that could recommend some rides 
>> from downtown Austin, that are tolerable on an Austin-Bcycle. The b-cycles 
>> are subpar compared to what I'm used to in a bikeshare bike, but they'll 
>> get me around. I'm flying out tomorrow evening, so have an hour here/there 
>> for some short rides.
>> Thanks!
>> David
>> currently enjoying local coffee (Cuvee) in Austin, TX
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Bikepacking the Smokey Mountains of the Colorado Rockies

[Andrew Letton]

Dear Patrick!I simply love reading and viewing your ride blogs!\My one 
question: Will you share with us your techniques for perfectly framed photos of 
you riding solo? Mini tripod? Timer? Remote control? Hand of God? Cheers 
from Oz,Andrew

  From: Deacon Patrick 
 To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
 Sent: Monday, June 11, 2018 9:40 AM
 Subject: [RBW] Bikepacking the Smokey Mountains of the Colorado Rockies
   
In which I ride through nearly every ecosystem Colorado has, wonder if I’m in 
the Smokey Mountains instead, encounter deer, bear, wild ass, pronghorn 
antelope, heard elk, and if my cloths got dirty I had plenty of washboard to 
scrub them clean. 
Grin.https://thegrid.ai/withabandon/fixed-gear-bikepacking-the-colorado-rockies

With abandon,Patrick
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Re: [RBW] Re: It Was the Worst of Times, It Was the Best of Times

[Abcyclehank]

Leah,
As happy as we are for your “happy” smiling brother in law.  Many of us on this 
list are just as happy for you matching smiles with him in the corner of the 
FaceTime image.  Thank you, Thank you for your contributions to this list, and 
bicycling communities across the country, at least from Nevada, and the realm 
of Sin City where school bicycle caravans face difficult odds to God’s county 
in Minnesota and bicycling hotbed of the Twin Cities.
You are an amazing bicycle ambassador improving the world one rider and story 
at a time!

Sincerely,
Ryan Hankinson
West Michigan

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Re: [RBW] Re: It Was the Worst of Times, It Was the Best of Times

[Joe Bernard]

Ah, his name came up earlier in the thread. My bad. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: It Was the Worst of Times, It Was the Best of Times

[Joe Bernard]

Gene Oberpriller?

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[RBW] Re: Riv basket nets hook source?

[Belopsky]

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps=bungee+net

?

I couldnt find the one I got my wife, but it's from Amazon and it's black, 
her favorite lack of color

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[RBW] WTB- 25.4 Technomic

[MikeS]

Hello All-

I’m looking for a 11 or 12 cm Technomic stem with a 25.4 clamp size.  Before I 
buy new I thought I’d see if anyone has a spare languishing in their parts bin. 
 Serviceable used condition is fine.

I can do Paypal or trade.  I’ve got a few cranks, drop levers, some other 
stuff.  

Please contact me off-list at bee...@gmail.com

Thanks and cheers- Mike in Somerville, MA




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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Joe Bernard]

Discs on a Rivendell don't happen with "once or twice." If it comes up often 
enough maybe somebody there will decide they're worth a shot. No, I'm not going 
to mention it every week - that would be insane - but once every few months? 
Most definitely. I want a Hunqapillar- or Clem-type bike with discs. I 
apologize for nothing!

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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Belopsky]

We're all just guessing here.

My guess? It's a Made in Taiwan Hunq w/ some fatter tire clearance.

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[RBW] Re: and a triple crank?

[Ron Mc]

in *a good compact double 
*,
 
if you work with a custom cassette (vary the rear cogs), you can accomplish 
the same thing

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 9:33:35 PM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> I wouldn't go random about it
> Plug your cassette into *Mike's Gear Calculator 
> *
> , 
> vary your chainrings and see what you get 
> The goal is wide range with narrow, useful steps - 5-8 inches for your 
> steps, especially in the range from about 60 to 80 inches, which is where 
> we mostly live.  
> Another goal is to minimize duplicates - 
> with a poorly designed drivetrain, you can have so many duplicates that 
> you have many fewer gears than you think you have.  
>
> On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 9:15:33 PM UTC-5, bo richardson wrote:
>>
>> the standard 46 or 48
>> 36
>> 28+/-
>
>

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[RBW] FS: derailleurs, a pair of MKS pedals, alfine tensioner and some brakes

[Belopsky]

Most every derailleur you see is $20 except for the Suntour Cyclone bits 
which are $35 for the FD and $45 for the rear. 

The Microshift front derailleurs are $10 each.

The Shimano silver derailleurs are FD-R440 but work great for friction. One 
of these is missing a Tiagra logo as I took some fine steel wool to it. 
This one is $15.

Most of the front derailleurs are 28.6 except for the MicroShift which are 
bigger and require a shim which I do not have. 
Most are in great shape, some were just put on to run a chain through, 
never ridden.


TIME Xpresso2 Pedals are $35. Ridden once. No cleats.

Brooks B67 is $80 shipped.

Shimano Deore V-brakes are $25 shipped.

The other Shimano brakes are $40 shipped.

Alfine tensioner $20

Add $5 for shipping for anything else.

PHOTOS: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Q3ojXReGCGqMJZfVA

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[RBW] Re: and a triple crank?

[Ron Mc]

I wouldn't go random about it
Plug your cassette into *Mike's Gear Calculator 
*
, 
vary your chainrings and see what you get 
The goal is wide range with narrow, useful steps - 5-8 inches for your 
steps, especially in the range from about 60 to 80 inches, which is where 
we mostly live.  
Another goal is to minimize duplicates - 
with a poorly designed drivetrain, you can have so many duplicates that you 
have many fewer gears than you think you have.  

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 9:15:33 PM UTC-5, bo richardson wrote:
>
> the standard 46 or 48
> 36
> 28+/-

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[RBW] and a triple crank?

[bo richardson]

the standard 46 or 48
36
28+/-

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[RBW] Re: Bikepacking the Smokey Mountains of the Colorado Rockies

[Brian Reeves]

Thanks for sharing; I enjoyed reading about your adventure and the shadow 
selfie was also very clever.

-Brian
On Sunday, June 10, 2018 at 6:40:59 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
> In which I ride through nearly every ecosystem Colorado has, wonder if I’m in 
> the Smokey Mountains instead, encounter deer, bear, wild ass, pronghorn 
> antelope, heard elk, and if my cloths got dirty I had plenty of washboard to 
> scrub them clean. 
> Grin.https://thegrid.ai/withabandon/fixed-gear-bikepacking-the-colorado-rockies
> 
> 
> With abandon,
> Patrick
> 
> 
> www.CredoFamily.org
> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I'm pretty sure the elves at Rivendell have been working on a carbon fiber 
and titanium version of the Cunningham Lever Link Brake. Probably more 
likely than discs. Hasn't this discussion come up once or twice already? Do 
folks not grow weary of wishing for disc Rivendells? Discs are fine. You 
can have them on 90 percent of bikes being made these days, from Wal Mart 
to Specialized to Crust. You can get suspended bikes, too 
, I 
understand. And some made with carbon fiber!

As far as those saying the mission of this project was already accomplished 
with the Clem, I see a distinction in that the Clem was developed as an 
alternative to refurbing a vintage mountain bike as an all around do 
everything machine that could handle a bit of basic single track in 
addition to gravel roads and pavement duties, whereas this new machine may 
be more like, if not the Legolas of mtbs, at least something that gives a 
nod to performance on the trail and more current geometries without 
resorting to auto and motorcycle technologies. After all, GP broke the mtb 
mold once before. Just a thought, and I could be waaay off base. In any 
case, I'm happy Mr. Petersen still has something up his sleeve that he's 
excited about and I'm enjoying the anticipation.


On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 5:48:36 PM UTC-4, Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>
> Yeah, I'm with you too. It's almost certain to have rim brakes, and why 
> not?  I don't get why so many people keep describing bikes that already 
> exist by other companies. I think it will almost certainly have longer 
> chainstays than the Hunqapillar as well. Will they be Clem length? Who 
> knows. I suppose it will likely use the new "wavie" bars (or bullmoose).
>
> I'm personally excited to see what it is, even though I won't get one. My 
> '87 Trek Antelope is still enough mountain bike for me, and an Atlantis 
> would be even more so. The new long chainstay bikes are, like the Jones 
> Plus, probably too long a wheelbase for me to have because of train/bus/car 
> bike rack issues, but that doesn't mean I think they're a bad idea. I'd 
> love to ride one of each!
>
> Eamon
>
> On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 11:01:25 AM UTC-7, James Warren wrote:
>>
>>
>> I’m on the opposite end. I’m hoping it’s a lugged, cream heat tube, rim 
>> brake compatible frame with clearance over 2.5”. I’m not needing 3”. And 
>> I’m not proselytizing, just stating my own preference. I prefer cantis to 
>> discs for a few reasons. (And I do have a bike with cable disc brakes, no 
>> hydraulics through). I prefer the aesthetics and the modes that I have to 
>> eliminate brake rub. I find keeping rim brakes in good working order is a 
>> more fun process than doing so with discs, which sometimes gets in my head 
>> and drives me mad. 
>>
>> Me hearing brake rub could probably be a Poe short story. 
>>
>>
>> -Jim W 
>>
>>
>> > On Jun 12, 2018, at 10:50 AM, Joe Bernard  wrote: 
>> > 
>> > I think they're missing sales not offering a disc trail bike, but I've 
>> given up. Grant doesn't want to do it and it's his business. No discs for 
>> you! 
>> > 
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Re: [RBW] Re: It Was the Worst of Times, It Was the Best of Times

[Leah Peterson]

Heather asked me to “thank the man who sent us to Gene. I really want him to 
know he helped me. And now we have a bike mechanic too, which we didn’t have 
before.” And that man is you, Tim Gavin!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 12, 2018, at 4:04 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> 
> Sweet!
> 
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[RBW] need noodles ,technomic

[bo richardson]

found a nice bike for a friends sister
univega touring bike in seattle

found a nice touring univega for a friends sister
it needs a short  neck  gooseneck technomic
and 42 noodles
maybe some cool handlebar wrap
maybe some flat pedals
anybody holding?

thanks

bo
borussky(at)gmail. com

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[RBW] UPDATE: It Was the Worst of Times, It Was the Best of Times

[Leah Peterson]

This lousy photo is all I have to share for now. It was taken from my iPhone 
while watching live on my iPad, haha. See that smile on his face? It stayed 
there, from the time he saw his new bike to the time he parked it at home. 
Also, the other man in the photo worked with Grant in his Bridgestone days. His 
name is Gene. Isn’t that something?

D rode the 5 miles home and Heather and I were waiting. He said he went “so 
fast” and thus overdid it and arrived home exhausted. 

He said he passed people left and right and was genuinely surprised. He wasn’t 
fast on his Specialized, and he and Heather had believed the Clem would be 
heavy. He felt like he was slipping off the Brooks (tilt that nose up!) but it 
was otherwise PERFECT. Gah! More photos tomorrow I hope!

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Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 12, 2018, at 4:04 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> 
> Sweet!
> 
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[RBW] Re: New Atlantis! - First Riv

[Rusty Click]

Congratulations on a great looking build, and welcome to the group!

Rusty
Pgh, PA

On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 12:42:21 PM UTC-4, Brian Reeves wrote:
>
> I've been lurking for quite some time here and have wanted an Atlantis for 
> a while too.  Back in April, I put out a wtb post looking for an Atlantis.  
> I had quite a few forum members kindly reply back to me.  But after a call 
> to Riv and talking to Grant (whom generously gave me quite a bit of his 
> time when I called in),  I decided to order a new Atlantis (56 - 650b) from 
> Riv and have them build it up for me.  Everyone I spoke to over the phone 
> (Grant, Roman and Corey just to name a few) were very nice...they all seem 
> like great folks and I have had nothing but positive experiences with 
> them.  My Atlantis came well packed and expertly assembled.  I finished 
> unboxing/what assembly was left yesterday and did my first ride yesterday 
> and another today.  The bike feels fantastic...to me it feels nimble and 
> fast yet stable and responsive when needed, and the wide 650b tires makes 
> the pot-hole streets and gravel roads around here feel soo smooth it's 
> almost unreal.
>
> I've included some photos from yesterday and today.  I **currently** live 
> in Hamilton, a small town in central Texas with a population of under 3000 
> peoplebut will be undergoing a pretty fast move this month to 
> Alexandria in central Louisiana which is pretty exciting but just a lot to 
> take care of in under a month if all the stars alignespecially with 
> working toward finding housing by July 1st. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Riv basket nets hook source?

[Brian Reeves]

It's probably worth buying an extra basket net with the four hooks in the 
future so you have a few more hooks (and backup net as well should that be 
needed).  It seems like that would be a good route to go if Riv doesn't 
sell them separately or if someone here doesn't have any spares.  

-Brian
Hamilton, TX (soon to be Alexandria, LA)

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 4:05:20 PM UTC-5, Edwin W wrote:
>
> I like Rivendell's basket nets.
> I remember when they brought them out they specifically commented on the 
> quality of the hooks. And they are high quality.
> I was glad to hear on their Blahg yesterday that a shipment of blue nets 
> is coming. I will get one. 
> I think they come with four hooks and you can zip tie the net to your 
> basket and have a few extra, but for some reason I am down to two and need 
> a few more.
>
> What I am asking is: has anyone found a source for hooks like that for 
> when you need more? "Plastic hooks" is an impossible search term.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Edwin
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: 62 Rambouillet 745$ complete bike ebay

[Philip Williamson]

Oh my. Who’s selling their Ram to the OTHER guy??

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

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Re: [RBW] Portugal’s Algarve?

[Steven Sweedler]

Sean, I rode there about 10 yrs ago, from Sevilla to Tavira, and then
pretty much followed the coast north,  until turning east through the
marble towns, Evora, Elvas, and Estremoz, and back into Spain. We rode in
 February,escaping our winter.More than wolling to try and answer any
questions. Steve

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 11:12 AM Sean Kline 
wrote:

> Planning travel to Lisbon and then Southern Algarve region in Aug/Sept.
> Long shot, but anyone have experience riding there?
>
> Thnx,
> Sean
>
> Via small keys - pls excuse brevity
>
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[RBW] Introduction - Doug Shaker

[Philip Williamson]

Hey Doug!
I recognize you. Welcome back!

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

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[RBW] Re: U locks and Pitlocks

[Kiley DeMond]

Wow, I admire all of you who live in high theft areas and still bike-on. I 
grew up in NYC, went to college and first worked in the San Gabriel Valley 
in Southern CA (where my bike was my only form of transit), and then lived 
in the SF Bay Area for 30 years, so I am not new to the concept of bike 
theft, a topic that just makes me mad and sad and everything in between. I 
have never had a bike stolen, but I have always brought them inside 
wherever I was (you can take girl out of NYC, but you can't take the NYC 
out of the girl). I used a U-lock coupled with a thick cable lock for all 
those years. When my son u-locked his bike to a sign-post by our Cupertino, 
CA apartment, it was gone the next morning, lifted right over the top. I 
moved to Arizona a year later (ok, it had to do with more than just the 
bike being stolen). One of the advantages of being in northern AZ, "the 
high country", is most people don't know what a Riv is, and theft is pretty 
low in most areas. And my Riv is huge and heavy (a pimped out Cheviot 
60cm). I use a frame lock to prevent opportunity theft. Riv used to sell 
one; I first experienced it on my Workcycles dutch bike. I would just turn 
and remove the key, and the rear wheel 'locks', as in is unable to turn. 
That was pretty nifty to prevent the grab 'n' go. I also knew that no one 
was going to through it over their shoulder and run — that bike weighed 
50lbs! When I got my svelte-by-comparison Cheviot, I was living in Ann 
Arbor, MI for a short period. Major college campuses are magnets for 
thieves; my nephew lost three or four bikes at Stanford (although I think 
at least one was lost because he couldn't remember where he left it). I 
neurosed about my bike and just always brought it inside with me.

But that isn't exactly what you asked. So, in addition to a frame lock 
which is good for most situations around here, I bought an Abus Bordo, but 
tfound it too big and cumbersome and sold it to someone in LA via eBay. In 
general, I would leave a big chain at any destination I commute to so I 
don't have to lug what is the best security system. How do I know this? 
Because I googled "bike security" and read every review and watched 
numerous YouTube videos. That helps with knowing which U-lock is best and 
why. And cable locks are worthless. The higher the theft rate, the more 
sophisticated the thieves, the more necessary just a big ol' chain with a 
tough cover and a lock with no exposed shackle becomes. If I lived 
somewhere with a high rate of theft, I would try and resign myself to 
riding a beater for practical riding and save my steed for pleasure riding. 
For now, I am adding pit locks for peace of mind during pit stops.

Some years ago, I got a semi-custom made bike and the frame had not yet 
been painted, gloss black was the default color. I am not someone who likes 
to draw attention (further) to myself, so after much internal debate and a 
post on Bike Forum, I stuck with black, in large part due to any other 
color adding cost. The debate was if uncommon colors would deter theft; it 
would certainly make the bike harder to sell. 

The new alarm and GPS devices hold a great deal of promise; I always said 
the keys to the kingdom shall belong to whoever solves the bike theft 
problem (and I don't mean just shooting the thief, although that could 
happen in AZ). 

It just makes me sad that many people don't ride because of theft and it 
confirmed riders from riding as often. I count myself in that latter group.

On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 2:13:37 PM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> Hi All, 
>
> Every year I drive across the country from Nevada to Minnesota to spend a 
> month of the summer among family. I've always done it with my bikes on the 
> hitch-mounted rack, secured with a couple of cable locks. I've never had a 
> u lock or pit locks as I live in a low-risk area and ride to low-risk 
> areas, rarely needing to park my bike or leave it out of sight. I'm poor in 
> knowledge of security for bikes, I'm afraid. And with TBBITW (The Best Bike 
> in the World) in tow, I'm fearful about losing it. I've been operating 
> under the belief that Minnesota Nice reigns, but times have changed, I 
> guess!
>
> My sister and brother in law recently moved to Minneapolis, and his bike 
> was stolen from his yard (his fault for forgetting it out there). This is 
> the reason why there's a grilver Clem L arriving at his local bike shop for 
> assembly tomorrow. Today, I got a frantic call from my sister. They have a 
> married pair of doctors (paradox? haha) visiting them from out east, and 
> knowing that MN is prime bike country, they brought their bikes. While 
> visiting the Swedish museum in Duluth, they parked their bikes at the rack 
> in front of the museum entrance and the doctors secured their bikes with 
> cable locks. They were away only briefly, and when they emerged, a museum 
> employee was wheeling away Dan's bike. She had seen that the 

Re: [RBW] Riv basket nets hook source?

[hugh flynn]

Those particular hooks, no, but if you search for “bungee plastic hooks”
you’ll find quite a few others to choose from.

I make my own bungee cords and nets with materials I can grab at my LMS
(local marine shop), and they usually have a pretty good bungee hook
collection as well.

Hugh “sproing” Flynn
Newburyport, MA


On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 5:05 PM Edwin W  wrote:

> I like Rivendell's basket nets.
> I remember when they brought them out they specifically commented on the
> quality of the hooks. And they are high quality.
> I was glad to hear on their Blahg yesterday that a shipment of blue nets
> is coming. I will get one.
> I think they come with four hooks and you can zip tie the net to your
> basket and have a few extra, but for some reason I am down to two and need
> a few more.
>
> What I am asking is: has anyone found a source for hooks like that for
> when you need more? "Plastic hooks" is an impossible search term.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Edwin
>
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[RBW] Re: Bikepacking the Smokey Mountains of the Colorado Rockies

[Lum Gim Fong]

Wow!! What a trip!
I also love the herbal and floral scents when riding. Also the smells of 
fireplaces and people cooking. But the herbal/florals make riding just so 
joyful and intoxicating.

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[RBW] Banana sax Rambouillet sprung saddle mounting with pics link.

[Lum Gim Fong]

Thanks for the info you all gave me on the banana sax inquiry thread I had.
I got the grey grid. Really glad it looks so nice and fits. I had alot of 
questions, so I figured I'd post what I found out when I got mine for 
anyone else who wants to know more about the bag.

Fits perfectly on my sprung saddle, even with my really low seat height. 
That's about 7 inches between the bottom of the springs and the top of the 
tire, iirc.
Springs do not intrude/press into bag. I like the bag shape and I think the 
curve near the seatpost, and the lid design look really nice.

Love the toggle closures and the tighteners that come on the elastic cords 
so I can tighten or loosen the cords as much as I want.
I have not felt any wobble and it hasn't rubbed the backs of my legs as I 
pedal.
I like how the opening faces up so that everything in the bag will shimmy 
down into the bag and away from the opening while riding.

Holds a lot. The rolled up 650 x 42 tube disappeared deeply into, and fit 
perfectly into, the bottom of the back of the bag by the seatpost. I had my 
pump, multi tool, patches, phone, keys, 650b tube, spare glasses with 
Take-a Look mirror attached, pitlock nut, and two more allen wrenches in 
there, and I think I could have also put another tube and had space to cram 
a light jacket in there. Or, like a small lunch in there, like sandwich 
sized. Couple drumstics and 3oz. BokChoy in a tightly wrapped plastic bag 
or something. Or like an Atkins Shake sized container. I will try it 
sometime, as I need to carry a small meal on commutes.

Anyway it holds enough for my Spring/Summer riding, and when I need to 
carry extra clothes in Fall/Winter, I can use my matching grey grid 
Sackville barbag for those extra items.
I like this bag because it will hold its shape with my sprung saddle, 
unlike Carradice types where the springs push into the bag and take up 
storage real estate.
I think it is a cleaner, neater look than my Carradice used to be, too.
Pics for fun. Enjpy.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/70237737@N00/6f62b6



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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Joe Bernard]

"I don't get why so many people keep describing bikes that already exist by 
other companies."

It's because bikes by other companies that have stuff we want (discs) don't 
look and ride like Rivs. 

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[RBW] FS

[Carla Waugh]

The parts that I have for sale have about a thousand miles or less on them. 
All of the parts are in excellent shape. 400.00 plus postage.

Edelux 11 light
Barlow Compass standard tire (one) 
Mavic 319 A silver rim 32 hole with colored nipples hand built
Son 28 polished silver hub

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[RBW] Re: It Was the Worst of Times, It Was the Best of Times

[Joe Bernard]

Sweet!

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[RBW] Re: It Was the Worst of Times, It Was the Best of Times

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I am delighted to report her I AM RIGHT NOW face timing with my sister as my 
BIL is receiving his Clem L at the shop!!!

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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Patrick Moore]

Me, I'd love a disc braked Atlantis or Hunq that can take 60s + fenders.
Someone onlist had his Atlantis retrofitted for disc brakes; best of both
worlds, IMO. But if Grant doesn't like discs, it's entirely his right not
to spec them.

FWIW, 61 mm 700C tires at 18 psi or so handle sandy trails pretty damned
well; certainly better than 50s. The Matthews (bike in question) can also
handle 650B X 3+, I'm pretty sure, but I'm happy with the Big Ones.

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 11:44 AM, 'Clayton' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> (Head down, kicking the dirt with a sad face)   I was hoping for disc so
> it would be easy to swap wheels. Most of my terrain can be handled with
> 2.25 tires, so a light wheel set and another set for Plus tires would make
> it easier to pick.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Patrick Moore]

If it's a Rivendell, you're not going to have real light tubes for dirt
use, either for rims brakes or disk brakes. And if you are going to use
3.8" tires, fork and frame flex are going to get swallowed up in something
much bigger.

That said, cantis work fine.

Patrick Moore, who prefers discs on dirt road bikes.

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:16 AM, hugh flynn  wrote:

> Not being a disk user, I may lack crucial experience required to
> understand, but since one has to use heavier tubing than one might
> otherwise want in order to resist the hub area forces imparted by disks -
> is it really THAT contrary to let the ride quality that results from tubing
> choices take priority over brake choice? Now, if it were a matter of
> selecting brakes that don’t work over those that do, that would be a
> different matter, but the suggestion that Cantis and v-brakes don’t work is
> silly. They do, they really do, and they don’t bring the frame
> design/construction costs that disks do.
>
> All disclaimers states above apply of course, but this strikes me as a non
> issue.
>
> Hugh “just stop” Flynn
> Newburyport, MA
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:40 AM Eric Daume  wrote:
>
>> What rims would you use for a non disc plus bike? A non-disc plus bike
>> seems like going against the crowd just for the sake of being different,
>> not for any customer merit.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 12, 2018, iamkeith  wrote:
>>
>>> ? Not sure why anyone would think plus tires are off the table.  I've
>>> used cantis with 3.8" tires on 65mm rims and they were perfectly adequate.
>>>
>>> All 2nd hand accounts we've heard of conversations with
>>> insiders/employees seem to suggest that a plus sized project is a
>>> possibility, even if not this one.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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> Newburyport, MA
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Patrick Moore]

Snocat makes or at least sells a 44 mm 650B rim and it seems to have the
same old brake tracks: http://616fab.com/wheel/snowcat-wheels/

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 7:07 AM, iamkeith  wrote:

> We sort of discussed this earlier in the thread.  Grant stated that there
> was some key thing that they needed to pull off, and we postulated that it
> might be a new rim. Garth noted that such 45mm rim brake rims have existed
> for a long time in 26 (snowcat) and 29 (kris holm) but not yet 650b.
>
> As for whether rivendell "does things for the sake of being different,"
> this might be a particularly appropriate podcast to listen to.
>
> There's also a link on the blahg to a video about the rim extrusion
> process.  Ask youself why?  I haven't watched it yet, but I know a new rim
> profile is easier to bring to life than many of the other innovations that
> Rivendell is single handedly responsible for, including modern-era 650b
> rims and tires, ultra-long reach caliper brakes, keeping headbadge art and
> lug manufacturers relevant, extra-long chainstay stock, to name a few.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Patrick Moore]

Why don't you like threaded headsets? I'm just curious.

I personally prefer threadless, but all my Rivs have had threaded and I've
had no problems with them (well, at least, after I discovered which race
goes top and which bottom for my Stronglight A 9 headset).

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 10:51 PM, Aakash Desai 
wrote:

>
>
> A Rivendell frame with a threadless front end would definitely have my
> interested. I've passed on Rivs in the past because of falling out of favor
> with threaded front ends.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Patrick Moore]

Brunhilde, Eglantina (Ariety, for that matter), Shakuntala, Yu Yan, Aisha,
Zianabu; or best of all, Aurora (after my mother).

OTOH, I want to see a Rivendell fat bike named the Cetshwayo.

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 10:34 PM, Justin, Oakland 
wrote:

> If Grant reads this: please pick a woman’s name for the MTB. Perhaps even
> a non-WASPy woman’s name. It’s be a welcome change and I’d love to shred on
> a Ellie Fant, Hilda Clime, Filla Gree, or Some such.
>
> Just my two cents.
>
> -J
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

['Eamon Nordquist' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Yeah, I'm with you too. It's almost certain to have rim brakes, and why 
not?  I don't get why so many people keep describing bikes that already 
exist by other companies. I think it will almost certainly have longer 
chainstays than the Hunqapillar as well. Will they be Clem length? Who 
knows. I suppose it will likely use the new "wavie" bars (or bullmoose).

I'm personally excited to see what it is, even though I won't get one. My 
'87 Trek Antelope is still enough mountain bike for me, and an Atlantis 
would be even more so. The new long chainstay bikes are, like the Jones 
Plus, probably too long a wheelbase for me to have because of train/bus/car 
bike rack issues, but that doesn't mean I think they're a bad idea. I'd 
love to ride one of each!

Eamon

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 11:01:25 AM UTC-7, James Warren wrote:
>
>
> I’m on the opposite end. I’m hoping it’s a lugged, cream heat tube, rim 
> brake compatible frame with clearance over 2.5”. I’m not needing 3”. And 
> I’m not proselytizing, just stating my own preference. I prefer cantis to 
> discs for a few reasons. (And I do have a bike with cable disc brakes, no 
> hydraulics through). I prefer the aesthetics and the modes that I have to 
> eliminate brake rub. I find keeping rim brakes in good working order is a 
> more fun process than doing so with discs, which sometimes gets in my head 
> and drives me mad. 
>
> Me hearing brake rub could probably be a Poe short story. 
>
>
> -Jim W 
>
>
> > On Jun 12, 2018, at 10:50 AM, Joe Bernard  > wrote: 
> > 
> > I think they're missing sales not offering a disc trail bike, but I've 
> given up. Grant doesn't want to do it and it's his business. No discs for 
> you! 
> > 
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[RBW] Re: New Atlantis! - First Riv

[RichS]

Congratulations and welcome to the group. You're going to love your 
Atlantis.

Best,
Richard (who had a pleasant 14 mile Atlantis ride today)

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 3:23:29 PM UTC-4, Jon Dukeman,central Colorado 
wrote:
>
> The Great people at Rivendell know their stuff and it shows in your build.
> You will get many miles of fun with that bike.
> Congrats
> Jon

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[RBW] Re: Ride Report--La Ruta Loca 200k

[RichS]

Most fun I've had today:-)  Thank you for your inspiring report, video and 
music!

Best,
Richard

On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 5:36:55 PM UTC-4, Philip Williamson wrote:
>
> That's an impressive ride. I may try cutting that into four separate 
> weekend rides. 
> Great write-up!
>
> Philip
> Santa Rosa, CA
>
> On Sunday, June 10, 2018 at 9:33:08 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Last Fall I did the Marin Mountains 200k and speculated that it might be 
>> the hardest 200k brevet the RUSA catalog.  Yesterday, San Francisco 
>> Randonneurs hosted La Ruta Loca, and the route owner Carlos (#4841) is 
>> pretty certain this course is harder. It was definitely a monster. "The 
>> Crazy Route" was crazy hard, and crazy fun. The main stats are: 125.3 
>> miles, ~50 miles of dirt, and 13,051ft of climbing. Here's my Ride with gps 
>> data:  https://ridewithgps.com/trips/24131333
>>
>>
>> The weather report called for ideal temperatures, low 50s in the early 
>> morning, slight general overcast and not many spots even approaching 75 
>> degrees.  According to Rob Hawks, 25 riders gathered in the dense fog at 
>> Crissy Field East Beach.  The pavement was very wet, like after a hard 
>> rain. It was only fog, and there were times during the ride where I wished 
>> the fog would come back. The only threatening part of the weather report 
>> called for strong winds from the Northwest. I went with El Cerrito High 
>> School racing kit, along with matching arm warmers, a reflective vest and 
>> that's all. I was chilly to start but it worked out perfectly. The 
>> armwarmers didn't come off until I was back in my van after the finish.
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> I was trying to travel light as I wasn't bringing a lot of bag-space on 
>> my Black Mountain Monster Cross. The bike's nickname alternates between 
>> Green Meanie and Mean Greenie. I ran a 2x10 drivetrain, 42/26 in front, 
>> 11-36 in back. My 700x43 Bruce Gordon Rock and Roads were about 'average' 
>> for the tires I saw people running. Some of the bikes present were classic 
>> rando-machines with Hetres or similar. Some were fully contemporary 'all 
>> road' bikes with 27.5" Thunder Burts.  I only saw one flat bar mountain 
>> bike, but now that I've done the route, I wouldn't hesitate to bring a 
>> light XC mountain bike. At about 5:50AM we gathered for a pre-ride chat, 
>> and the solemn SFR oath promising "not to do stupid stuff". At 6AM sharp we 
>> were off towards the Golden Gate Bridge heading North into Marin County.
>>
>>
>> Unlike most other SFR routes, we didn't have to meander all willy nilly 
>> through Sausalito, Mill Valley, Ross and the other southern Marin towns. 
>> Instead we got right off the bridge and headed straight up into the Marin 
>> headlands and got off-road immediately. The ride ended up being three 
>> distinct sections. Section 1 was an epic 50 mile mountain bike ride, 
>> punctuated with just a few paved connectors. Section 2 would be a basically 
>> flat road ride punctuated by a few gravel stretches. Section 3 would be 
>> another 30 mile mountain bike ride up and over Mount Tam. The first big 
>> dirt climb was Miwok Trail, which started to sort people out, especially on 
>> the descent of Old Springs. There was a broad array of offroad descending 
>> skills on display. Some would bomb the descents 'full-send', while others 
>> were quite timid. I landed somewhere in the middle. Throughout the day, I 
>> would notice tight corners on a soft trail where a skid mark went straight 
>> when the trail curved. The clear indication was that this was caused by a 
>> rider who brought too much speed and not enough tire into that corner. The 
>> clear message was that there was not going to be much long-term grouping up 
>> of riders. It's hard to match skills exactly, and since this course was 
>> going to be hard to finish within the 13:30 limit, waiting around was not a 
>> smart option. I briefly latched on to a strong group up the steep technical 
>> Deer Park climb, led out by Paul on a cyclocross race bike. I let them pace 
>> me up the climb, but gathered pretty quickly that this would be the lead 
>> group, and I would let them go after a while to 'do my own ride' and 
>> conserve my energy. I could tell Paul was serious when he indicated he 
>> saved weight by only filling one full water bottle at the start because he 
>> planned to stop for water at the Pan Toll Ranger Station at the top of Deer 
>> Park. While he did that, I had plenty and went ahead. He passed me shortly 
>> after that on the road climb to the tippy top of Mount Tam and I wouldn't 
>> see him again. That long climb included some paved riding up Pan Toll and 
>> Ridgecrest, but quickly got onto the Lagunitas-RockSprings trail and hit 
>> the highest elevation of the day, about 2200 feet. It felt good to be done 
>> with the 

Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Matt B.]

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 2:01:25 PM UTC-4, James Warren wrote:
>
>
> I’m on the opposite end. I’m hoping it’s a lugged, cream heat tube, rim 
> brake compatible frame with clearance over 2.5”. I’m not needing 3”. And 
> I’m not proselytizing, just stating my own preference. I prefer cantis to 
> discs for a few reasons. (And I do have a bike with cable disc brakes, no 
> hydraulics through). I prefer the aesthetics and the modes that I have to 
> eliminate brake rub. I find keeping rim brakes in good working order is a 
> more fun process than doing so with discs, which sometimes gets in my head 
> and drives me mad. 
>
> Me hearing brake rub could probably be a Poe short story. 
>
> -Jim W 
>


I'm with you, Jim. My experience is also limited to cable discs, but I 
appreciate and the simplicity and shade-tree serviceability of rim brakes, 
and I actually kind of enjoy making my cantilevers stop plenty well for my 
needs in dry, wet, or snow.

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[RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[EasyRider]

Even if the bike isn't plus-tired if it's in the stepthru bubbe-Roadini price 
range I'll be tempted.

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[RBW] Re: My new Sam is complete!

[RichS]

My compliments as well! Classy build and beautiful photographs. I have the 
same front VO track hub. It's a beauty.

Best,
Richard

On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 6:46:17 PM UTC-4, d2mini wrote:
>
> The hubs are Velo Orange Grand Cru, laced to polished Velocity Atlas rims. 
> :)
>
>
>
> On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 9:18:24 AM UTC-5, Beaverton Bob wrote:
>>
>> Wonderful build. Like many here, I am a Sam owner myself. I will second 
>> the suggestion of getting it (at least slightly) dirty!!
>>
>> Trying to look at the pics in my phone, but are those White Industries 
>> hubs? If so, nice touch.
>>
>

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[RBW] Riv basket nets hook source?

[Edwin W]

I like Rivendell's basket nets.
I remember when they brought them out they specifically commented on the 
quality of the hooks. And they are high quality.
I was glad to hear on their Blahg yesterday that a shipment of blue nets is 
coming. I will get one. 
I think they come with four hooks and you can zip tie the net to your 
basket and have a few extra, but for some reason I am down to two and need 
a few more.

What I am asking is: has anyone found a source for hooks like that for when 
you need more? "Plastic hooks" is an impossible search term.


Thanks,

Edwin

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[RBW] Re: Introduction - Doug Shaker

[George Schick]

DOUG!!  Long time, no see/hear.  You made some leather mud flaps for my 
Ram's fenders w-a-a-ay back in '05 or '06 I think it was.  Good to see you 
active on the blog again!

George
 

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 12:46:14 PM UTC-5, Doug Shaker wrote:
>
> I'm just joining the group, so I thought it would be polite to introduce 
> myself.
>
> I've been riding Rivendells since about 2003, when I realized that I'd 
> never bought a bike for myself and had just had them given to me.  I bought 
> a Rambouillet and was instantly hooked.  I still ride that Rombouillet, but 
> I also have a Saluki and some generic cross bike that has been made into a 
> cargo bike with an Xtracycle attachment.
>
> I used to be a regular contributor to the old RBW mailing list, but I 
> faded out and got interested in other things.  I build bikes for short 
> friends that can't find bikes that will work for them in the commercial 
> sphere.  And I work for a bike charilty (www.bikex.org) that donates 
> fixed up bikes to social service agencies.
>
> I live in Palo Alto and am newly retired.  I used to run a business that 
> did contract technical writing.
>
> There we have it.
>
> -Doug Shaker
>

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[RBW] Re: Austin Ride Recommendations from Downtown?

[David B]

Thanks for the recommendations! I hadn't even thought about a bike on this 
trip, just didn't realize Austin was so bike friendly and there were trails 
right out of downtown. Had I known, I would've tried to bring a bike with 
me. 
I did get a B-cycle 3-day pass, which was a reasonable $18. The bikes 
themselves took a bit to adjust to, but ended up being alright getting me 
around. They don't seem to be consistently maintained though. At a docking 
station, I'd have to check tire pressures to select a bike as most had too 
low pressure to be safely ridden imo.
I explored downtown and East Austin a bit by bike and did a loop of Lady 
Bird Lake. The heat wasn't something I was used to, so I got in less rides 
than I wanted, but it was fun. 
Austin is definitely now on my list of places to visit with a bike in tow.
David

On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 7:36:05 AM UTC-5, David B wrote:
>
> Should've asked this a week ago, but now that I'm here, wondering if 
> there's any Austin-ites(?) on this list that could recommend some rides 
> from downtown Austin, that are tolerable on an Austin-Bcycle. The b-cycles 
> are subpar compared to what I'm used to in a bikeshare bike, but they'll 
> get me around. I'm flying out tomorrow evening, so have an hour here/there 
> for some short rides.
> Thanks!
> David
> currently enjoying local coffee (Cuvee) in Austin, TX
>

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[RBW] New Atlantis! - First Riv

[Jon Dukeman,central Colorado]

The Great people at Rivendell know their stuff and it shows in your build.
You will get many miles of fun with that bike.
Congrats
Jon

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[RBW] Re: Introduction - Doug Shaker

[Paul Choi]

Have you been able to find a new location for Bike Exchange?

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 10:46:14 AM UTC-7, Doug Shaker wrote:
>
> I'm just joining the group, so I thought it would be polite to introduce 
> myself.
>
> I've been riding Rivendells since about 2003, when I realized that I'd 
> never bought a bike for myself and had just had them given to me.  I bought 
> a Rambouillet and was instantly hooked.  I still ride that Rombouillet, but 
> I also have a Saluki and some generic cross bike that has been made into a 
> cargo bike with an Xtracycle attachment.
>
> I used to be a regular contributor to the old RBW mailing list, but I 
> faded out and got interested in other things.  I build bikes for short 
> friends that can't find bikes that will work for them in the commercial 
> sphere.  And I work for a bike charilty (www.bikex.org) that donates 
> fixed up bikes to social service agencies.
>
> I live in Palo Alto and am newly retired.  I used to run a business that 
> did contract technical writing.
>
> There we have it.
>
> -Doug Shaker
>

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[RBW] Re: PSA: all rounder near chicago

[Karl]

Will do! By the way, someone asked what else the seller had.. sort of dream 
stable. A few Surlys, a Black Sheep and a Romulus there. Saluki at his office 
and two Quickbeams. 

Karl (Please Southwest Be Gentle) Worley
Nashville, TN

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[RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[iamkeith]

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 10:52:37 AM UTC-6, Justin, Oakland wrote:
>
> I think there’s a certain irony in lovers of modern Rivendell designs 
> being worried about the extra weight of tubes needed to support having disc 
> brakes. 
>
>
>
I too think the bigger issue is flexibility of the fork blades.  My Clem 
blades flex like nobody's business.  I'm not sure about Steve Potts' disc 
version of the Type II fork though.   On one hand I'm inclined to trust 
anything he says, but I did see several early ones that cracked where the 
top of the long disc tab attached.  Maybe he's gotten it figured out, but 
$800 rigid forks are not really feasible for most.  

Not to mention: with a 2.8" or bigger tire casing, even that becomes a moot 
point - so, yeah, I hear Justin's general comment.  In fact this entire 
*discussion* has become very weird and ironic, if you ask me.   So far 
people have stated that they'd be interested in a new Rivendell mountain 
bike if only it had:

-  a 1 1/8" threadless steerer
-  disc brakes
-  shorter chainstays
-  higher bottom bracket
-  suspension-corrected geometry


No only would any one of those things would seem to make it 
not-a-Rivendell, but they describe bikes that already exist.  

Funny - like Clayton, I've also though about how Crust kind of out-Riv'd 
Riv in some ways and, for a while.  I think Grant's resistance to wider 
tires was a contributing factor.  (The "if you need a fatter tire, get a 
Pugsly" thing, and the unwillingness to build large all-rounders around 26" 
wheels that could use RTP tires because it probably felt like going 
"backwards." Even though it was a genre that he and Rivendell pioneered.)  
Consumers wanting wider tires than Rivendell was willing to 
accommodate.  If THAT'S not ironic, tell me what is.

Hopefully, this new mountain bike and its necessary parts will be the start 
of new direction/option, and Rivs will remain the aspirational version of 
the type of bikes we dream about.

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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[James Warren]

I’m on the opposite end. I’m hoping it’s a lugged, cream heat tube, rim brake 
compatible frame with clearance over 2.5”. I’m not needing 3”. And I’m not 
proselytizing, just stating my own preference. I prefer cantis to discs for a 
few reasons. (And I do have a bike with cable disc brakes, no hydraulics 
through). I prefer the aesthetics and the modes that I have to eliminate brake 
rub. I find keeping rim brakes in good working order is a more fun process than 
doing so with discs, which sometimes gets in my head and drives me mad.

Me hearing brake rub could probably be a Poe short story.


-Jim W


> On Jun 12, 2018, at 10:50 AM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> 
> I think they're missing sales not offering a disc trail bike, but I've given 
> up. Grant doesn't want to do it and it's his business. No discs for you!
> 
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[RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Deacon Patrick]

Justin, it’s not the weight, but the stiffness of the tubes disk brakes require 
that is the issue for me. My Hunqapillar fork absorbed a LOT of shock.

Also, all bikes come with shocks. The engine contains them in the knees and 
elbows. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick 

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Re: [RBW] Introduction - Doug Shaker

[James Warren]

Doug,

I remember your name. 2003-4-5 really don’t seem like 15-14-13 years ago. I’m 
glad you’re back!

-James Warren


> On Jun 12, 2018, at 10:40 AM, Doug Shaker  wrote:
> 
> I'm just joining the group, so I thought it would be polite to introduce 
> myself.
> 
> I've been riding Rivendells since about 2003, when I realized that I'd never 
> bought a bike for myself and had just had them given to me.  I bought a 
> Rambouillet and was instantly hooked.  I still ride that Rombouillet, but I 
> also have a Saluki and some generic cross bike that has been made into a 
> cargo bike with an Xtracycle attachment.
> 
> I used to be a regular contributor to the old RBW mailing list, but I faded 
> out and got interested in other things.  I build bikes for short friends that 
> can't find bikes that will work for them in the commercial sphere.  And I 
> work for a bike charilty (www.bikex.org) that donates fixed up bikes to 
> social service agencies.
> 
> I live in Palo Alto and am newly retired.  I used to run a business that did 
> contract technical writing.
> 
> There we have it.
> 
> -Doug Shaker
> 
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[RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Joe Bernard]

I think they're missing sales not offering a disc trail bike, but I've given 
up. Grant doesn't want to do it and it's his business. No discs for you!

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[RBW] Introduction - Doug Shaker

[Joe Bernard]

I remember that name. Welcome back, Doug!

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[RBW] Introduction - Doug Shaker

[Doug Shaker]

I'm just joining the group, so I thought it would be polite to introduce 
myself.

I've been riding Rivendells since about 2003, when I realized that I'd 
never bought a bike for myself and had just had them given to me.  I bought 
a Rambouillet and was instantly hooked.  I still ride that Rombouillet, but 
I also have a Saluki and some generic cross bike that has been made into a 
cargo bike with an Xtracycle attachment.

I used to be a regular contributor to the old RBW mailing list, but I faded 
out and got interested in other things.  I build bikes for short friends 
that can't find bikes that will work for them in the commercial sphere.  
And I work for a bike charilty (www.bikex.org) that donates fixed up bikes 
to social service agencies.

I live in Palo Alto and am newly retired.  I used to run a business that 
did contract technical writing.

There we have it.

-Doug Shaker

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[RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

['Clayton' via RBW Owners Bunch]

(Head down, kicking the dirt with a sad face)   I was hoping for disc so it 
would be easy to swap wheels. Most of my terrain can be handled with 2.25 
tires, so a light wheel set and another set for Plus tires would make it 
easier to pick. 
Rim selection is vast if you run disc's. Poking around on the net, there 
isn't much out there for wide rim brake rims, so I would imagine a new rim 
is being sourced. 
Recently, I talked with Steve Potts about his gravel bike while he was in 
town. He has a fascinating design with an exterior strut running up the 
back side of his small diameter TI forks. He explained it transfers the 
disc braking loads into the crown, allowing very supple forks. All figured 
out with stress analysis.  I was smitten, but can't afford one. It showed 
me that a supple fork can coexist with disc brakes, but the aesthetics 
wouldn't work for a Riv. 

So here are my guesses heavily influenced by all of you and this thread:  
27.5 plus tires with rim-brake plus rims. Standard diameter Riv frame 
tubes, not oversized. Quill stem (more tradition, flex and comfort).  
Shortish front center, longer rear center.  Not sure about hubs, 'probably' 
quick release.  Partially lugged frame.  Ball and socket seatstays.  
Slacker steering geometry.  Braze ons galore.  Single chainring. And of 
course, a pink paint job with little painted peyote buttons, ham hocks and 
hatchets. 

It will be interesting to compare this new one to a Crust. Crust out 
'Rivved' Riv, which was shocking. I expected Grant to come out with a plus 
bikepack bike a long time ago. Riv could have owned the Crust market IMHO. 
Crust filled a Rivendell spot that was wide open. 

I hope the new bike is spectacular, with unexpected touches of modern 
technology that make a difference, such as screw in axles (for greater hub 
selection), disc brakes for wheel swapping and wet weather performance (and 
for greater hub selection), and routing for a dropper post. (How did I ever 
live without one?)

I have my reservations about tubeless tires.  I just started using them 
last year. They are messy. Hard to change tires on a whim. To me they don't 
feel any faster or more supple than tubed tires. I have to clean out the 
tires and add more sealant twice a year. I continue to run tubeless on my 
Ibis HD3 with an open mind, looking for the advantages, but other than 
buckthorn flat protection and the ability to run low air pressure, I don't 
get it. If I lived in buckthorn country, tubeless. If my trails were 
extremely rough, tubeless. Sometimes it is hard to decipher what is good 
design through all the marketing BS that get shoved down our starving 
throats, but we seem to enjoy it.
It would be nice to swap out tubeless disc wheels for the terrain rather 
than changing a messy gooey tire. I expect Grants rims to be tubeless 
compatible. It would be silly not to, as most all mountain bike tires now 
are tubeless compatible. 

This is kinda fun, designing a Rivendell bike by guessing...lol. Who's next?

Clayton
DirtDance




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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Jeremy Tavan]

I don't think any of the rugged-type Rivendell bikes would need any 
additional reinforcement to run disc brakes. The Clem/Hunq/Appaloosa are 
all rather stoutly tubed. Flexy they ain't.

/Jeremy

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 10:27:09 AM UTC-7, Hugh Flynn wrote:
>
> It’s a fair point to be sure, but is separate from the question I asked.
>
> To put a somewhat finer point on it, my comment did not relate to weight 
> in any way. I referenced the impact of forcing thicker tubes than might 
> otherwise be spec’d in order to accommodate certain brakes that could alter 
> the way the bike rides. Weight is not a factor in that point.
>
> I’m calling myself still ideologically pure :-)
>
> Hugh “flex” Flynn
> Newburyport, MA
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 12:52 PM Justin, Oakland  > wrote:
>
>> I think there’s a certain irony in lovers of modern Rivendell designs 
>> being worried about the extra weight of tubes needed to support having disc 
>> brakes. 
>>
>> -J
>>
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> -- 
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> Newburyport, MA
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[hugh flynn]

It’s a fair point to be sure, but is separate from the question I asked.

To put a somewhat finer point on it, my comment did not relate to weight in
any way. I referenced the impact of forcing thicker tubes than might
otherwise be spec’d in order to accommodate certain brakes that could alter
the way the bike rides. Weight is not a factor in that point.

I’m calling myself still ideologically pure :-)

Hugh “flex” Flynn
Newburyport, MA


On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 12:52 PM Justin, Oakland 
wrote:

> I think there’s a certain irony in lovers of modern Rivendell designs
> being worried about the extra weight of tubes needed to support having disc
> brakes.
>
> -J
>
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Newburyport, MA

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[RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Justin, Oakland]

I think there’s a certain irony in lovers of modern Rivendell designs being 
worried about the extra weight of tubes needed to support having disc brakes. 

-J

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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Eric Daume]

In my stable, I have a Clem and a Karate Monkey, among others. The Clem is
a nice riding bike, but I don’t find it particularly smoother than the disc
braked KM. I doubt Riv will be using the super thin Kasei type blades on
this project, anyway.

V brakes stop OK, but discs offer some practical advantages:

- easier to install a fat tire (I have to wiggle an alleged 2.4 past the
brake bosses on my Clem)

- wheelsets are more readily available (though this may become less of a
factor as most disc wheelsets move to through axles). Yes, a rim extrusion
is relatively easy to make. But who wants to build a bike around one rim?

Eric

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018, hugh flynn  wrote:

> Not being a disk user, I may lack crucial experience required to
> understand, but since one has to use heavier tubing than one might
> otherwise want in order to resist the hub area forces imparted by disks -
> is it really THAT contrary to let the ride quality that results from tubing
> choices take priority over brake choice? Now, if it were a matter of
> selecting brakes that don’t work over those that do, that would be a
> different matter, but the suggestion that Cantis and v-brakes don’t work is
> silly. They do, they really do, and they don’t bring the frame
> design/construction costs that disks do.
>
> All disclaimers states above apply of course, but this strikes me as a non
> issue.
>
> Hugh “just stop” Flynn
> Newburyport, MA
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:40 AM Eric Daume  wrote:
>
>> What rims would you use for a non disc plus bike? A non-disc plus bike
>> seems like going against the crowd just for the sake of being different,
>> not for any customer merit.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 12, 2018, iamkeith  wrote:
>>
>>> ? Not sure why anyone would think plus tires are off the table.  I've
>>> used cantis with 3.8" tires on 65mm rims and they were perfectly adequate.
>>>
>>> All 2nd hand accounts we've heard of conversations with
>>> insiders/employees seem to suggest that a plus sized project is a
>>> possibility, even if not this one.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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[RBW] Re: Huge Rosco Mixte

[MartyG]

I'm 92 in the PBH department, and I'd agree 90 is about minimum for this 
frame. Not sure there's an upper limit! Still dialing things in, but I will 
say I've lowered the seat a smidge twice now and it feels better each time. 
Also using the Bosco Bullmoose now and they are slammed all the way down. 
Looks and feels great. The head tube is so jacked up I had that rare 
option. Maybe some new pics this weekend, and don't be shocked to see it as 
a single speed. 

I'd think a 90cm'r would be workable, but crank those legs up to 95-101 and 
it's divine. 

> -Kai 
> BK NY 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Atlantis! - First Riv

[Tommy Patterson]

Brian,

If you venture toward NOLA send me an email. I am new to the area but have
been riding my Riv as much as possible to explore the back roads of south
Louisiana.

Tommy

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 10:49 AM, phil k  wrote:

> Brian, this looks great! I almost got an Atlantis myself, but still got a
> wedding to plan / pay for! The billie bars look realll wide!
>
> On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 12:42:21 PM UTC-4, Brian Reeves wrote:
>
>> I've been lurking for quite some time here and have wanted an Atlantis
>> for a while too.  Back in April, I put out a wtb post looking for an
>> Atlantis.  I had quite a few forum members kindly reply back to me.  But
>> after a call to Riv and talking to Grant (whom generously gave me quite a
>> bit of his time when I called in),  I decided to order a new Atlantis (56 -
>> 650b) from Riv and have them build it up for me.  Everyone I spoke to over
>> the phone (Grant, Roman and Corey just to name a few) were very nice...they
>> all seem like great folks and I have had nothing but positive experiences
>> with them.  My Atlantis came well packed and expertly assembled.  I
>> finished unboxing/what assembly was left yesterday and did my first ride
>> yesterday and another today.  The bike feels fantastic...to me it feels
>> nimble and fast yet stable and responsive when needed, and the wide 650b
>> tires makes the pot-hole streets and gravel roads around here feel soo
>> smooth it's almost unreal.
>>
>> I've included some photos from yesterday and today.  I **currently** live
>> in Hamilton, a small town in central Texas with a population of under 3000
>> peoplebut will be undergoing a pretty fast move this month to
>> Alexandria in central Louisiana which is pretty exciting but just a lot to
>> take care of in under a month if all the stars alignespecially with
>> working toward finding housing by July 1st.
>>
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[RBW] Re: New Atlantis! - First Riv

[phil k]

Brian, this looks great! I almost got an Atlantis myself, but still got a 
wedding to plan / pay for! The billie bars look realll wide!

On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 12:42:21 PM UTC-4, Brian Reeves wrote:
>
> I've been lurking for quite some time here and have wanted an Atlantis for 
> a while too.  Back in April, I put out a wtb post looking for an Atlantis.  
> I had quite a few forum members kindly reply back to me.  But after a call 
> to Riv and talking to Grant (whom generously gave me quite a bit of his 
> time when I called in),  I decided to order a new Atlantis (56 - 650b) from 
> Riv and have them build it up for me.  Everyone I spoke to over the phone 
> (Grant, Roman and Corey just to name a few) were very nice...they all seem 
> like great folks and I have had nothing but positive experiences with 
> them.  My Atlantis came well packed and expertly assembled.  I finished 
> unboxing/what assembly was left yesterday and did my first ride yesterday 
> and another today.  The bike feels fantastic...to me it feels nimble and 
> fast yet stable and responsive when needed, and the wide 650b tires makes 
> the pot-hole streets and gravel roads around here feel soo smooth it's 
> almost unreal.
>
> I've included some photos from yesterday and today.  I **currently** live 
> in Hamilton, a small town in central Texas with a population of under 3000 
> peoplebut will be undergoing a pretty fast move this month to 
> Alexandria in central Louisiana which is pretty exciting but just a lot to 
> take care of in under a month if all the stars alignespecially with 
> working toward finding housing by July 1st. 
>

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[RBW] Re: New Atlantis! - First Riv

[REC (Roberta)]

Congratulations on your first Riv!   As they say in Philadelphia, it's 
"Bee-u-tee-ful."

The first Riv I ever rode (test ride only) was an Atlantis, which made me 
understand the "riv ride experience."  It rode magically.  I do  I wish you 
many happy miles.

Roberta (Joe A. owner)

On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 12:42:21 PM UTC-4, Brian Reeves wrote:

> I've been lurking for quite some time here and have wanted an Atlantis for 
> a while too.  Back in April, I put out a wtb post looking for an Atlantis.  
> I had quite a few forum members kindly reply back to me.  But after a call 
> to Riv and talking to Grant (whom generously gave me quite a bit of his 
> time when I called in),  I decided to order a new Atlantis (56 - 650b) from 
> Riv and have them build it up for me.  Everyone I spoke to over the phone 
> (Grant, Roman and Corey just to name a few) were very nice...they all seem 
> like great folks and I have had nothing but positive experiences with 
> them.  My Atlantis came well packed and expertly assembled.  I finished 
> unboxing/what assembly was left yesterday and did my first ride yesterday 
> and another today.  The bike feels fantastic...to me it feels nimble and 
> fast yet stable and responsive when needed, and the wide 650b tires makes 
> the pot-hole streets and gravel roads around here feel soo smooth it's 
> almost unreal.
>
> I've included some photos from yesterday and today.  I **currently** live 
> in Hamilton, a small town in central Texas with a population of under 3000 
> peoplebut will be undergoing a pretty fast move this month to 
> Alexandria in central Louisiana which is pretty exciting but just a lot to 
> take care of in under a month if all the stars alignespecially with 
> working toward finding housing by July 1st. 
>

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[RBW] Re: PSA: all rounder near chicago

[S. Greco]

I'm both extremely happy for you and mildly heartbroken. 
If you find yourself disappointed in any way and need to unload it . . . 
drop me a line.

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[RBW] Portugal’s Algarve?

[Sean Kline]

Planning travel to Lisbon and then Southern Algarve region in Aug/Sept. Long 
shot, but anyone have experience riding there?

Thnx,
Sean

Via small keys - pls excuse brevity

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[RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[EasyRider]

I missed the new rim hints! So I will stand by my original prediction of a plus 
tired capable 27.5 MB-1ish bike with a high by riv standards BB and longish 
chainstays.

And a suspension stem :)

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[RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Joe Bernard]

Unless I'm missing what you're responding to, there was no mention of the new 
bike being 26”. I would think a new Riv mtb would hew closer to 27.5 and 29. 

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[RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Brian Campbell]

We will have to wait and see. I guess I wonder what the demand would be for 
a rigid, 26" wheeled mtb? Seems there are hundreds currently available on 
my local CL/Facebook.

Also, I thought he Clem was filling this space for Riv? I get wanting to 
maintain your unique identity as a business in a crowed, cut throat 
marketplace but I am not sure how you position a 26" wheeled mtb as 
something that does that? 

On Friday, April 27, 2018 at 3:24:19 PM UTC-4, Jeremy Till wrote:
>
> This might be a stretch, but hey, what's the fun in following a guru if 
> you can't spend hours parsing his words and interpreting them?  I think 
> there might be a hint towards an upcoming trail-oriented Riv (or update to 
> an existing Riv) hidden in this passage from Grant's post yesterday 
> 
> : 
>
> In mountain bike racing and just riding, it's gone the other way. The 
>> early guys were riding unsuitably low-tech bikes, then bikes reached a 
>> basic good level of appropriate technology in the late '80s, and now 
>> they've borrowed as much as possible—for now—from cars and motorcycles. 
>> There are reactions to it the other way, with one-speed mountain bikes, but 
>> those are fading fast because...one gear is too limiting for varied 
>> terrain. *There's no restraint at that end, and we're going to show 'em 
>> all what-for sometime late this year, if we can pull it off.*
>
>
> I wonder what it could be...the before-hinted plus-tire Hunqapillar?  
> Bringing back the Bombadil (probably can't be done under the LOTR gag 
> order)?  Some other new trail-oriented rig?
>
> Honestly, I'm pretty satisfied with my Jones-barred Clem as my MTB 
> (well...a threadless fork would be nice), so I'm not anxiously awaiting 
> anything, but it would be interesting to see what they come up with.  
>
> Let the speculation begin! 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[hugh flynn]

Not being a disk user, I may lack crucial experience required to
understand, but since one has to use heavier tubing than one might
otherwise want in order to resist the hub area forces imparted by disks -
is it really THAT contrary to let the ride quality that results from tubing
choices take priority over brake choice? Now, if it were a matter of
selecting brakes that don’t work over those that do, that would be a
different matter, but the suggestion that Cantis and v-brakes don’t work is
silly. They do, they really do, and they don’t bring the frame
design/construction costs that disks do.

All disclaimers states above apply of course, but this strikes me as a non
issue.

Hugh “just stop” Flynn
Newburyport, MA


On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:40 AM Eric Daume  wrote:

> What rims would you use for a non disc plus bike? A non-disc plus bike
> seems like going against the crowd just for the sake of being different,
> not for any customer merit.
>
> Eric
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 12, 2018, iamkeith  wrote:
>
>> ? Not sure why anyone would think plus tires are off the table.  I've
>> used cantis with 3.8" tires on 65mm rims and they were perfectly adequate.
>>
>> All 2nd hand accounts we've heard of conversations with
>> insiders/employees seem to suggest that a plus sized project is a
>> possibility, even if not this one.
>>
>>
>>
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-- 
Hugh Flynn
Newburyport, MA

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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[John G.]

Velocity Cliffhangers wouldn't work? Too narrow? At the risk of being an 
armchair designer, I wonder if they're thinking of something similar to a 
Clem H with a bit more standover and a perhaps shorter chainstays. Rigid 
mountain bikes are lots of fun, but given that they can't just ride over 
everything on a trail, they need decent maneuverability. 

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 9:10:09 AM UTC-4, EasyRider wrote:
>
> Good point about the rim availability. Just thinking about what would make 
> for a "dedicated" mtb on Riv's terms. Perhaps it will simply be a MIT Hunq 
> with longer chainstays. Isn't that a Clem, though? Maybe a threadless stem 
> option, like the Roadeo? Seems doubtful.

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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[EasyRider]

Good point about the rim availability. Just thinking about what would make for 
a "dedicated" mtb on Riv's terms. Perhaps it will simply be a MIT Hunq with 
longer chainstays. Isn't that a Clem, though? Maybe a threadless stem option, 
like the Roadeo? Seems doubtful.

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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[iamkeith]

We sort of discussed this earlier in the thread.  Grant stated that there was 
some key thing that they needed to pull off, and we postulated that it might be 
a new rim. Garth noted that such 45mm rim brake rims have existed for a long 
time in 26 (snowcat) and 29 (kris holm) but not yet 650b.

As for whether rivendell "does things for the sake of being different," this 
might be a particularly appropriate podcast to listen to.  

There's also a link on the blahg to a video about the rim extrusion process.  
Ask youself why?  I haven't watched it yet, but I know a new rim profile is 
easier to bring to life than many of the other innovations that Rivendell is 
single handedly responsible for, including modern-era 650b rims and tires, 
ultra-long reach caliper brakes, keeping headbadge art and lug manufacturers 
relevant, extra-long chainstay stock, to name a few.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Eric Daume]

What rims would you use for a non disc plus bike? A non-disc plus bike
seems like going against the crowd just for the sake of being different,
not for any customer merit.

Eric

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018, iamkeith  wrote:

> ? Not sure why anyone would think plus tires are off the table.  I've used
> cantis with 3.8" tires on 65mm rims and they were perfectly adequate.
>
> All 2nd hand accounts we've heard of conversations with insiders/employees
> seem to suggest that a plus sized project is a possibility, even if not
> this one.
>
>
>
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[RBW] Re: 26er vs 29er

[Bob K.]

Erik,

I agree that those Hunqapillars look great! You should get one. They fit up to 
2.5” tires according to some reports here. That’s straight up comfy-town on 
trails.

I will say, though, that we’re the same size (if I remember right) and I really 
enjoy my Surly Troll shod with a Jones bar, i40 rims, and 26x3” tires for 
off-road touring. It’s nimble and super comfortable in ways that the Surly 
Krampus with 29x3” tires wasnt. The 26” platform is great off-road in the plus 
sizes, and it’s definitely not dead! I am also building a 27.5” wheelset with 
WTB i25 KOM rims and 27.5x2.25 Thunderburts to swap on for dirt road tours and 
riding when I don’t need the full plus-sized tires. I only mentioned the Troll 
because you mentioned other Surly bikes. IMHO, it’s far superior to the Bridge 
Club, which seems like a very middle-of-the-road bike to me.

I’m sure anything you buy will be awesome, and the Hunq would satisfy your 
desire for another Riv. I say go for it.

Bob K. in Baltimore

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[RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[EasyRider]

I'm probably reading too much into one word, but did I hear Grant use the 
phrase, "dedicated mountain bike"? it's intriguing to think of how such a bike 
would differ from a Hunq or a Clem. Maybe clearance for 650b plus tires - which 
aren't necessary or imho desirable for pavement riding -- would be the 
distinguishing feature. 

Pete
Arlington, VA

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[RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[iamkeith]

? Not sure why anyone would think plus tires are off the table.  I've used 
cantis with 3.8" tires on 65mm rims and they were perfectly adequate.

All 2nd hand accounts we've heard of conversations with insiders/employees seem 
to suggest that a plus sized project is a possibility, even if not this one.



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[RBW] Re: West Point Inn Invite - June 22 and 23

[cyclotourist]

And let me clarify, The $150 is for two nights, two dinners, two
breakfasts. Lots of beer. And there's room for more than three more people,
that's just the point where we start running out of bed space. We can
figure out floor options past that.

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 11:11 PM, cyclotourist 
wrote:

> The Southern California Rivendell and Other Fine Velocipede Appreciation
> Society has been renting out the WPI on Mt. Tam for four years now, and
> having a fantastic time eating well, drinking better, talking smack, and
> occasionally riding bikes. This is coming up fast, and we have some room
> available. Three individuals, or couples (preferred) with nothing better to
> do who want to jump on, can do so. Cost is $150 a person/$300 couple.
> Magical views, pretty good people, and one of the most unique locales you
> can come across in the historic West Point Inn
> .
>
> Here are some of my pics from the first year we were there:
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/albums/72157661872299170
>
> If you just want to ride up on Saturday and hop on a ride up there, please
> consider yourself invited for that as well
>

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[RBW] West Point Inn Invite - June 22 and 23

[cyclotourist]

The Southern California Rivendell and Other Fine Velocipede Appreciation
Society has been renting out the WPI on Mt. Tam for four years now, and
having a fantastic time eating well, drinking better, talking smack, and
occasionally riding bikes. This is coming up fast, and we have some room
available. Three individuals, or couples (preferred) with nothing better to
do who want to jump on, can do so. Cost is $150 a person/$300 couple.
Magical views, pretty good people, and one of the most unique locales you
can come across in the historic West Point Inn
.

Here are some of my pics from the first year we were there:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/albums/72157661872299170

If you just want to ride up on Saturday and hop on a ride up there, please
consider yourself invited for that as well

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[RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

['Clayton' via RBW Owners Bunch]

> "During that interview, he confirmed a *non-disc*, non-squish MTB is in 
> the works.  As for other attributes the bike may or may not have, I don't 
> remember any that were mentioned ... though it *might* have longish 
> chainstays ..."
>

Whelp, there goes my hopes for a plus bike. I can't picture standard 
V-brakes clearing the tire nor cantilevers. Drum brakes are a weak 
possibility, so the dream isn't totally dead. Drat.  

Clayton
DirtDance 

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