[RBW] Mixte frame design question
Yet another way to deal with the alignment of the dropped top tube and the mid-stays. Reynand style mid-stay attachment, no kink, just to swoop. http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/34156114@N05/11348445043/ That's a 60cm frame over 650B wheels. As others have pointed out, that's a pretty high hurdle to step over. Still better, however, than a big leg swing with a stiff hip. Cheers, Tom Matchak -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Mixte frame design question
On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 7:03:09 PM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote: Did all French builders use the TT stays? Peugeot made many women's bikes with a single dropped top tube, but no extra rear stays. In the 1980s, their inexpensive models had the twin diagonal stays, but the more expensive, performance-oriented women's model had the single, dropped top tube. I suspect the single dropped tube was influenced by the fashion for Italian bikes. Many Italian makers offered frames of this type. (In Germany where I grew up, it was very unusual even for a sporting woman to ride a men's frame, so you saw these Italian frames, outfitted with Campagnolo components, on training rides.) I've often wondered about the ride of these women's bikes. From a basic engineering perspective, I understand the idea that ending a tube in the middle of another tube is a big no-no – you want triangulation. That clearly is what Reyhand was thinking when he developed the model with the extra rear stays, which transmit the loads of the diagonal tube to the rear dropouts. On the other hand, the flexing of the seat tube (on the Italian frames) could provide a little suspension, which might not be bad. Then you have all the issues of frame flex and planing... where a compact frame (since that is what the Reyhand style was, if you remove the uppermost set of seat stays) might be stiffer than perhaps ideal for its rider. Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly www.bikequarterly.com Follow our blog at www.janheine.wordpress.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Mixte frame design question
There's a picture of a 60cm Betty Foy on Riv's blug, and it's the first I remember seeing where the top/diaga-tube looks to meet its rear counterparts in a clean straight line. On others, and I guess smaller sized frames, the top tube meets the rear tubes with a slight kink. Again, I must not have paid attention to other images, or to the frames in person. But why the difference? Is it to keep the step-through height of the top tube identical across frame sizes? It's no doubt identical in rigidity and stoutness, but quite different in appearance, one size to another. I like the look of a single line from top of head tube to rear axle. - Andrew, Berkeley -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Mixte frame design question
Maybe it has to do with the angles of available lugs? cheers, Andrew (Painstakingly pecked out on my iPhone; please pardon my brevity and tpyos.) On Jan 8, 2014, at 8:27, BSWP ashtab...@gmail.com wrote: There's a picture of a 60cm Betty Foy on Riv's blug, and it's the first I remember seeing where the top/diaga-tube looks to meet its rear counterparts in a clean straight line. On others, and I guess smaller sized frames, the top tube meets the rear tubes with a slight kink. Again, I must not have paid attention to other images, or to the frames in person. But why the difference? Is it to keep the step-through height of the top tube identical across frame sizes? It's no doubt identical in rigidity and stoutness, but quite different in appearance, one size to another. I like the look of a single line from top of head tube to rear axle. - Andrew, Berkeley -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Mixte frame design question
I've noticed that kink as well. I also prefer the look of a single diagonal line; that's why the diagatube Bombadil and Appaloosa look so good. According to Sheldon Brown et al, in a true mixte frame the diagonal element is actually two stays from rear dropout to head tube. Has Riv ever considered doing a true mixte? http://sheldonbrown.com/images/mixte-supercourse.jpg Although, I'd bet that suitable tubing would be a custom order, as the mixte diagatubes are usually seat stay diameter but quite long. Tim On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Andrew Letton let...@flash.net wrote: Maybe it has to do with the angles of available lugs? cheers, Andrew (Painstakingly pecked out on my iPhone; please pardon my brevity and tpyos.) On Jan 8, 2014, at 8:27, BSWP ashtab...@gmail.com wrote: There's a picture of a 60cm Betty Foy on Riv's blug, and it's the first I remember seeing where the top/diaga-tube looks to meet its rear counterparts in a clean straight line. On others, and I guess smaller sized frames, the top tube meets the rear tubes with a slight kink. Again, I must not have paid attention to other images, or to the frames in person. But why the difference? Is it to keep the step-through height of the top tube identical across frame sizes? It's no doubt identical in rigidity and stoutness, but quite different in appearance, one size to another. I like the look of a single line from top of head tube to rear axle. - Andrew, Berkeley -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Mixte frame design question
The 55cm demo (congrats on getting it, Michael!) has the no-kink geometry, compared to the 50cm demo (kinky). I used to think the kink detracted from the look... but my mind's now used to the look, and the 55cm no-kink looks to be the outlier! I also think large frames w/o TT or diagatubes look strange now. Maybe if I look at MCRB long enough, they'll look fine, too? For fabricating a true mixte, the limitation is the lug-- Riv would have to use a different headlug and seat lug () or perhaps do a filet braze to the headtube? I think Liesl mentioned that her custom Appaloosa will have a diagatube of this sort. (As the frame is too small to have a Riv-normal diagatube.) Shoji On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 12:16:29 PM UTC-5, Tim Gavin wrote: I've noticed that kink as well. I also prefer the look of a single diagonal line; that's why the diagatube Bombadil and Appaloosa look so good. According to Sheldon Brown et al, in a true mixte frame the diagonal element is actually two stays from rear dropout to head tube. Has Riv ever considered doing a true mixte? http://sheldonbrown.com/images/mixte-supercourse.jpg Although, I'd bet that suitable tubing would be a custom order, as the mixte diagatubes are usually seat stay diameter but quite long. Tim On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Andrew Letton let...@flash.netjavascript: wrote: Maybe it has to do with the angles of available lugs? cheers, Andrew (Painstakingly pecked out on my iPhone; please pardon my brevity and tpyos.) On Jan 8, 2014, at 8:27, BSWP asht...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: There's a picture of a 60cm Betty Foy on Riv's blug, and it's the first I remember seeing where the top/diaga-tube looks to meet its rear counterparts in a clean straight line. On others, and I guess smaller sized frames, the top tube meets the rear tubes with a slight kink. Again, I must not have paid attention to other images, or to the frames in person. But why the difference? Is it to keep the step-through height of the top tube identical across frame sizes? It's no doubt identical in rigidity and stoutness, but quite different in appearance, one size to another. I like the look of a single line from top of head tube to rear axle. - Andrew, Berkeley -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Mixte frame design question
Yah, the 55 Cheviot shares the kink. At least it looks that way from the posted pics. I have gotten used to look as I have to see the 50 Betty in the garage every day. But I do prefer the straight line. Dan -Marin On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 9:46 AM, Shoji Takahashi shoji.takaha...@gmail.comwrote: The 55cm demo (congrats on getting it, Michael!) has the no-kink geometry, compared to the 50cm demo (kinky). I used to think the kink detracted from the look... but my mind's now used to the look, and the 55cm no-kink looks to be the outlier! I also think large frames w/o TT or diagatubes look strange now. Maybe if I look at MCRB long enough, they'll look fine, too? For fabricating a true mixte, the limitation is the lug-- Riv would have to use a different headlug and seat lug () or perhaps do a filet braze to the headtube? I think Liesl mentioned that her custom Appaloosa will have a diagatube of this sort. (As the frame is too small to have a Riv-normal diagatube.) Shoji On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 12:16:29 PM UTC-5, Tim Gavin wrote: I've noticed that kink as well. I also prefer the look of a single diagonal line; that's why the diagatube Bombadil and Appaloosa look so good. According to Sheldon Brown et al, in a true mixte frame the diagonal element is actually two stays from rear dropout to head tube. Has Riv ever considered doing a true mixte? http://sheldonbrown.com/images/mixte-supercourse.jpg Although, I'd bet that suitable tubing would be a custom order, as the mixte diagatubes are usually seat stay diameter but quite long. Tim On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Andrew Letton let...@flash.net wrote: Maybe it has to do with the angles of available lugs? cheers, Andrew (Painstakingly pecked out on my iPhone; please pardon my brevity and tpyos.) On Jan 8, 2014, at 8:27, BSWP asht...@gmail.com wrote: There's a picture of a 60cm Betty Foy on Riv's blug, and it's the first I remember seeing where the top/diaga-tube looks to meet its rear counterparts in a clean straight line. On others, and I guess smaller sized frames, the top tube meets the rear tubes with a slight kink. Again, I must not have paid attention to other images, or to the frames in person. But why the difference? Is it to keep the step-through height of the top tube identical across frame sizes? It's no doubt identical in rigidity and stoutness, but quite different in appearance, one size to another. I like the look of a single line from top of head tube to rear axle. - Andrew, Berkeley -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Mixte frame design question
It definitely looks as though they use the same lugs (for cost savings I assume), which just means the tubes, because of varying lengths, though at similar angles, meet at different points. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Mixte frame design question
On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 12:46:28 PM UTC-5, Shoji Takahashi wrote: For fabricating a true mixte, the limitation is the lug-- Riv would have to use a different headlug and seat lug () or perhaps do a filet braze to the headtube? I think Liesl mentioned that her custom Appaloosa will have a diagatube of this sort. (As the frame is too small to have a Riv-normal diagatube.) I noticed the lug on the Cheviot (this one: http://25.media.tumblr.com/122d0d1e21f583da20777428d264d501/tumblr_myubi5Hecp1qe3ngpo6_400.jpg) is the same as one that was mentioned in a blug awhile back; as I was awaiting my Bombadil at the time and knew they had a new lug coming for it, when I saw that lug in the blug, I'd asked about it, if it was going to be on the diaga-Bomba... Grant said nope, that the Bomba had a LOT more clearance needed, and that lug wouldn't do for it, that he might eventually design a new lug for it, but that if the angles didn't come out just right, that such could end up being an expensive problem; that's why they were passed through Mark Nobilette's for adding on the curvastays on the Bombadils... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Mixte frame design question
Leslie I thought the same thing, but when I went back in the BLUG, that special lug you are referring to is a seat lug, with the seatpost clamp and everything. Two different lugs. Here's the famous one: http://media.tumblr.com/3481d96969a53412f236eb0f2c257b0f/tumblr_inline_mkut7pukgd1qz4rgp.jpg or maybe you are talking about a different special one than I was thinking of. At any rate, the middle Cheviot lug looks the same as the one on recent Betty Foys. On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 12:17:31 PM UTC-8, Leslie wrote: On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 12:46:28 PM UTC-5, Shoji Takahashi wrote: For fabricating a true mixte, the limitation is the lug-- Riv would have to use a different headlug and seat lug () or perhaps do a filet braze to the headtube? I think Liesl mentioned that her custom Appaloosa will have a diagatube of this sort. (As the frame is too small to have a Riv-normal diagatube.) I noticed the lug on the Cheviot (this one: http://25.media.tumblr.com/122d0d1e21f583da20777428d264d501/tumblr_myubi5Hecp1qe3ngpo6_400.jpg) is the same as one that was mentioned in a blug awhile back; as I was awaiting my Bombadil at the time and knew they had a new lug coming for it, when I saw that lug in the blug, I'd asked about it, if it was going to be on the diaga-Bomba... Grant said nope, that the Bomba had a LOT more clearance needed, and that lug wouldn't do for it, that he might eventually design a new lug for it, but that if the angles didn't come out just right, that such could end up being an expensive problem; that's why they were passed through Mark Nobilette's for adding on the curvastays on the Bombadils... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Mixte frame design question
Sheldon does not appear to support his true mixte definition, except the implicit support of Sheldon says so. For the most part, that's enough for me, but does anyone have a French source to differentiate solid-tubed step-through frames as being not a mixte? I always wondered if it was a sly way to gauge his own influence on the internet, and see how far an unsupported assertion can go, and where it might pop up in a Google search. Philip (long have I wondered this) www.biketinker.com On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 9:16:29 AM UTC-8, Tim Gavin wrote: I've noticed that kink as well. I also prefer the look of a single diagonal line; that's why the diagatube Bombadil and Appaloosa look so good. According to Sheldon Brown et al, in a true mixte frame the diagonal element is actually two stays from rear dropout to head tube. Has Riv ever considered doing a true mixte? http://sheldonbrown.com/images/mixte-supercourse.jpg Although, I'd bet that suitable tubing would be a custom order, as the mixte diagatubes are usually seat stay diameter but quite long. Tim On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Andrew Letton let...@flash.netjavascript: wrote: Maybe it has to do with the angles of available lugs? cheers, Andrew (Painstakingly pecked out on my iPhone; please pardon my brevity and tpyos.) On Jan 8, 2014, at 8:27, BSWP asht...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: There's a picture of a 60cm Betty Foy on Riv's blug, and it's the first I remember seeing where the top/diaga-tube looks to meet its rear counterparts in a clean straight line. On others, and I guess smaller sized frames, the top tube meets the rear tubes with a slight kink. Again, I must not have paid attention to other images, or to the frames in person. But why the difference? Is it to keep the step-through height of the top tube identical across frame sizes? It's no doubt identical in rigidity and stoutness, but quite different in appearance, one size to another. I like the look of a single line from top of head tube to rear axle. - Andrew, Berkeley -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Mixte frame design question
Quote from Sheldon (AASHTA): According to Sheldon, a mixte is: A style of lady's http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_l.html#ladys frame in which the top tube http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_ta-o.html#toptube consists of a pair of small diameter tubes running more-or-less straight from the upper head lug http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_l.html#lug, past the seat tube http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_sa-o.html#seattube, and on to the rear fork endshttp://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_e-f.html#forkend. A mixte frame thus has 3 sets of rear stays, instead of the usual two. *A variant on the mixte uses a single, full sized top tube running from the upper head tube to the seat tube, but retains the middle set of stays*. A lady's type bike that lacks the middle pair of stays is not a mixte. In other words, Sheldon defines a Rivendell as a variant of a mixte. The third set of stays is the critical part that supports the seat tube and makes it a mixte. A Rivendell has the middle set of stays, and happens to have a full size top tube. Anybody who says a Rivendell is not a mixte and uses Sheldon to defend their position, does not understand Sheldon's definition. On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 3:56:30 PM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote: Sheldon does not appear to support his true mixte definition, except the implicit support of Sheldon says so. For the most part, that's enough for me, but does anyone have a French source to differentiate solid-tubed step-through frames as being not a mixte? I always wondered if it was a sly way to gauge his own influence on the internet, and see how far an unsupported assertion can go, and where it might pop up in a Google search. Philip (long have I wondered this) www.biketinker.com On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 9:16:29 AM UTC-8, Tim Gavin wrote: I've noticed that kink as well. I also prefer the look of a single diagonal line; that's why the diagatube Bombadil and Appaloosa look so good. According to Sheldon Brown et al, in a true mixte frame the diagonal element is actually two stays from rear dropout to head tube. Has Riv ever considered doing a true mixte? http://sheldonbrown.com/images/mixte-supercourse.jpg Although, I'd bet that suitable tubing would be a custom order, as the mixte diagatubes are usually seat stay diameter but quite long. Tim On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Andrew Letton let...@flash.net wrote: Maybe it has to do with the angles of available lugs? cheers, Andrew (Painstakingly pecked out on my iPhone; please pardon my brevity and tpyos.) On Jan 8, 2014, at 8:27, BSWP asht...@gmail.com wrote: There's a picture of a 60cm Betty Foy on Riv's blug, and it's the first I remember seeing where the top/diaga-tube looks to meet its rear counterparts in a clean straight line. On others, and I guess smaller sized frames, the top tube meets the rear tubes with a slight kink. Again, I must not have paid attention to other images, or to the frames in person. But why the difference? Is it to keep the step-through height of the top tube identical across frame sizes? It's no doubt identical in rigidity and stoutness, but quite different in appearance, one size to another. I like the look of a single line from top of head tube to rear axle. - Andrew, Berkeley -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Mixte frame design question
Yeah, the true mixte vs not true mixte thing is just a dumb distinction. Mixte is not french for a step through frame with twin laterals. There is no better name for the style of bike with a top tube hitting mid seat tube, and it is used interchangeably by most people for a true twin lateral vs dropped top tube. Other than mixte there is no other good single name for the step-through dropped-top-tube ladies-bike girls-bike mamachari style bike. This is the realm of pedants. Realm of Pedants, of course, is pretty much synonymous with the internet. I think you will find in real life that Mixte is used more often than any other term other than he poor descriptives girls-bike or ladies-bike. Later Tarik On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Philip Williamson philip.william...@gmail.com wrote: Sheldon does not appear to support his true mixte definition, except the implicit support of Sheldon says so. For the most part, that's enough for me, but does anyone have a French source to differentiate solid-tubed step-through frames as being not a mixte? I always wondered if it was a sly way to gauge his own influence on the internet, and see how far an unsupported assertion can go, and where it might pop up in a Google search. Philip (long have I wondered this) www.biketinker.com On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 9:16:29 AM UTC-8, Tim Gavin wrote: I've noticed that kink as well. I also prefer the look of a single diagonal line; that's why the diagatube Bombadil and Appaloosa look so good. According to Sheldon Brown et al, in a true mixte frame the diagonal element is actually two stays from rear dropout to head tube. Has Riv ever considered doing a true mixte? http://sheldonbrown.com/images/mixte-supercourse.jpg Although, I'd bet that suitable tubing would be a custom order, as the mixte diagatubes are usually seat stay diameter but quite long. Tim On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Andrew Letton let...@flash.net wrote: Maybe it has to do with the angles of available lugs? cheers, Andrew (Painstakingly pecked out on my iPhone; please pardon my brevity and tpyos.) On Jan 8, 2014, at 8:27, BSWP asht...@gmail.com wrote: There's a picture of a 60cm Betty Foy on Riv's blug, and it's the first I remember seeing where the top/diaga-tube looks to meet its rear counterparts in a clean straight line. On others, and I guess smaller sized frames, the top tube meets the rear tubes with a slight kink. Again, I must not have paid attention to other images, or to the frames in person. But why the difference? Is it to keep the step-through height of the top tube identical across frame sizes? It's no doubt identical in rigidity and stoutness, but quite different in appearance, one size to another. I like the look of a single line from top of head tube to rear axle. - Andrew, Berkeley -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Tarik Saleh tas at tariksaleh dot com in los alamos, po box 208, 87544 http://tariksaleh.com all sorts of bikes blog: http://tsaleh.blogspot.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Mixte frame design question
ceci n'est pas une Bombadil: http://www.flickr.com/photos/joe_bunik/4494454218/ On 1/8/14, Bill Lindsay tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: Quote from Sheldon (AASHTA): According to Sheldon, a mixte is: A style of lady's http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_l.html#ladys frame in which the top tube http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_ta-o.html#toptube consists of a pair of small diameter tubes running more-or-less straight from the upper head lug http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_l.html#lug, past the seat tube http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_sa-o.html#seattube, and on to the rear fork endshttp://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_e-f.html#forkend. A mixte frame thus has 3 sets of rear stays, instead of the usual two. *A variant on the mixte uses a single, full sized top tube running from the upper head tube to the seat tube, but retains the middle set of stays*. A lady's type bike that lacks the middle pair of stays is not a mixte. In other words, Sheldon defines a Rivendell as a variant of a mixte. The third set of stays is the critical part that supports the seat tube and makes it a mixte. A Rivendell has the middle set of stays, and happens to have a full size top tube. Anybody who says a Rivendell is not a mixte and uses Sheldon to defend their position, does not understand Sheldon's definition. On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 3:56:30 PM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote: Sheldon does not appear to support his true mixte definition, except the implicit support of Sheldon says so. For the most part, that's enough for me, but does anyone have a French source to differentiate solid-tubed step-through frames as being not a mixte? I always wondered if it was a sly way to gauge his own influence on the internet, and see how far an unsupported assertion can go, and where it might pop up in a Google search. Philip (long have I wondered this) www.biketinker.com On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 9:16:29 AM UTC-8, Tim Gavin wrote: I've noticed that kink as well. I also prefer the look of a single diagonal line; that's why the diagatube Bombadil and Appaloosa look so good. According to Sheldon Brown et al, in a true mixte frame the diagonal element is actually two stays from rear dropout to head tube. Has Riv ever considered doing a true mixte? http://sheldonbrown.com/images/mixte-supercourse.jpg Although, I'd bet that suitable tubing would be a custom order, as the mixte diagatubes are usually seat stay diameter but quite long. Tim On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Andrew Letton let...@flash.net wrote: Maybe it has to do with the angles of available lugs? cheers, Andrew (Painstakingly pecked out on my iPhone; please pardon my brevity and tpyos.) On Jan 8, 2014, at 8:27, BSWP asht...@gmail.com wrote: There's a picture of a 60cm Betty Foy on Riv's blug, and it's the first I remember seeing where the top/diaga-tube looks to meet its rear counterparts in a clean straight line. On others, and I guess smaller sized frames, the top tube meets the rear tubes with a slight kink. Again, I must not have paid attention to other images, or to the frames in person. But why the difference? Is it to keep the step-through height of the top tube identical across frame sizes? It's no doubt identical in rigidity and stoutness, but quite different in appearance, one size to another. I like the look of a single line from top of head tube to rear axle. - Andrew, Berkeley -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
Re: [RBW] Mixte frame design question
Fo-Sheezy, Joe Breezy On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 4:21:50 PM UTC-8, jbu...@gmail.com wrote: ceci n'est pas une Bombadil: http://www.flickr.com/photos/joe_bunik/4494454218/ On 1/8/14, Bill Lindsay tape...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: Quote from Sheldon (AASHTA): According to Sheldon, a mixte is: A style of lady's http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_l.html#ladys frame in which the top tube http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_ta-o.html#toptube consists of a pair of small diameter tubes running more-or-less straight from the upper head lug http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_l.html#lug, past the seat tube http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_sa-o.html#seattube, and on to the rear fork endshttp://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_e-f.html#forkend. A mixte frame thus has 3 sets of rear stays, instead of the usual two. *A variant on the mixte uses a single, full sized top tube running from the upper head tube to the seat tube, but retains the middle set of stays*. A lady's type bike that lacks the middle pair of stays is not a mixte. In other words, Sheldon defines a Rivendell as a variant of a mixte. The third set of stays is the critical part that supports the seat tube and makes it a mixte. A Rivendell has the middle set of stays, and happens to have a full size top tube. Anybody who says a Rivendell is not a mixte and uses Sheldon to defend their position, does not understand Sheldon's definition. On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 3:56:30 PM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote: Sheldon does not appear to support his true mixte definition, except the implicit support of Sheldon says so. For the most part, that's enough for me, but does anyone have a French source to differentiate solid-tubed step-through frames as being not a mixte? I always wondered if it was a sly way to gauge his own influence on the internet, and see how far an unsupported assertion can go, and where it might pop up in a Google search. Philip (long have I wondered this) www.biketinker.com On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 9:16:29 AM UTC-8, Tim Gavin wrote: I've noticed that kink as well. I also prefer the look of a single diagonal line; that's why the diagatube Bombadil and Appaloosa look so good. According to Sheldon Brown et al, in a true mixte frame the diagonal element is actually two stays from rear dropout to head tube. Has Riv ever considered doing a true mixte? http://sheldonbrown.com/images/mixte-supercourse.jpg Although, I'd bet that suitable tubing would be a custom order, as the mixte diagatubes are usually seat stay diameter but quite long. Tim On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Andrew Letton let...@flash.net wrote: Maybe it has to do with the angles of available lugs? cheers, Andrew (Painstakingly pecked out on my iPhone; please pardon my brevity and tpyos.) On Jan 8, 2014, at 8:27, BSWP asht...@gmail.com wrote: There's a picture of a 60cm Betty Foy on Riv's blug, and it's the first I remember seeing where the top/diaga-tube looks to meet its rear counterparts in a clean straight line. On others, and I guess smaller sized frames, the top tube meets the rear tubes with a slight kink. Again, I must not have paid attention to other images, or to the frames in person. But why the difference? Is it to keep the step-through height of the top tube identical across frame sizes? It's no doubt identical in rigidity and stoutness, but quite different in appearance, one size to another. I like the look of a single line from top of head tube to rear axle. - Andrew, Berkeley -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to
Re: [RBW] Mixte frame design question
it is a little bit Breezy, now that you mention it! http://www.flickr.com/photos/joe_bunik/4899070155/ On 1/8/14, Bill Lindsay tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: Fo-Sheezy, Joe Breezy On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 4:21:50 PM UTC-8, jbu...@gmail.com wrote: ceci n'est pas une Bombadil: http://www.flickr.com/photos/joe_bunik/4494454218/ On 1/8/14, Bill Lindsay tape...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: Quote from Sheldon (AASHTA): According to Sheldon, a mixte is: A style of lady's http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_l.html#ladys frame in which the top tube http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_ta-o.html#toptube consists of a pair of small diameter tubes running more-or-less straight from the upper head lug http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_l.html#lug, past the seat tube http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_sa-o.html#seattube, and on to the rear fork endshttp://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_e-f.html#forkend. A mixte frame thus has 3 sets of rear stays, instead of the usual two. *A variant on the mixte uses a single, full sized top tube running from the upper head tube to the seat tube, but retains the middle set of stays*. A lady's type bike that lacks the middle pair of stays is not a mixte. In other words, Sheldon defines a Rivendell as a variant of a mixte. The third set of stays is the critical part that supports the seat tube and makes it a mixte. A Rivendell has the middle set of stays, and happens to have a full size top tube. Anybody who says a Rivendell is not a mixte and uses Sheldon to defend their position, does not understand Sheldon's definition. On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 3:56:30 PM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote: Sheldon does not appear to support his true mixte definition, except the implicit support of Sheldon says so. For the most part, that's enough for me, but does anyone have a French source to differentiate solid-tubed step-through frames as being not a mixte? I always wondered if it was a sly way to gauge his own influence on the internet, and see how far an unsupported assertion can go, and where it might pop up in a Google search. Philip (long have I wondered this) www.biketinker.com On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 9:16:29 AM UTC-8, Tim Gavin wrote: I've noticed that kink as well. I also prefer the look of a single diagonal line; that's why the diagatube Bombadil and Appaloosa look so good. According to Sheldon Brown et al, in a true mixte frame the diagonal element is actually two stays from rear dropout to head tube. Has Riv ever considered doing a true mixte? http://sheldonbrown.com/images/mixte-supercourse.jpg Although, I'd bet that suitable tubing would be a custom order, as the mixte diagatubes are usually seat stay diameter but quite long. Tim On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Andrew Letton let...@flash.net wrote: Maybe it has to do with the angles of available lugs? cheers, Andrew (Painstakingly pecked out on my iPhone; please pardon my brevity and tpyos.) On Jan 8, 2014, at 8:27, BSWP asht...@gmail.com wrote: There's a picture of a 60cm Betty Foy on Riv's blug, and it's the first I remember seeing where the top/diaga-tube looks to meet its rear counterparts in a clean straight line. On others, and I guess smaller sized frames, the top tube meets the rear tubes with a slight kink. Again, I must not have paid attention to other images, or to the frames in person. But why the difference? Is it to keep the step-through height of the top tube identical across frame sizes? It's no doubt identical in rigidity and stoutness, but quite different in appearance, one size to another. I like the look of a single line from top of head tube to rear axle. - Andrew, Berkeley -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
Re: [RBW] Mixte frame design question
On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 3:39:01 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote: Leslie I thought the same thing, but when I went back in the BLUG, that special lug you are referring to is a seat lug, with the seatpost clamp and everything. Two different lugs. Here's the famous one: or maybe you are talking about a different special one than I was thinking of. At any rate, the middle Cheviot lug looks the same as the one on recent Betty Foys. Hi Bill, Nope; I remember that lug, too; but the one I was referring to, and asked Grant about, you can see in these two Rosco Bubbe pics: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvr1jxwxCw1qdvnvk.jpg http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvymvxcdZX1qdvnvk.jpg The thing that had caught my eye was the two 'wings' with sockets for the stays to come into the sides of the lug; normal mixte or normal bike size, it is; but fat Bombas, need more room than that lug has... -L -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Mixte frame design question
Oh, and while talking mixtes, here's a bike that brought me around to thinking about them http://rivbike.tumblr.com/post/2349587723/mountain-mixte-custom -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Mixte frame design question
Aha. I didn't keep the allowable variant mixte style in my mind. This not a mixte (ATS): http://www.biketinker.com/2012/fine-bikes/state-of-the-steyr-3-15-12/ (no third set of stays) This IS a mixte: http://www.biketinker.com/2012/fine-bikes/state-of-the-belleville-3-21-12/ (twin tubes + lateral stays... What would those be? Top Tube Stays?) Is there any source more original than Sheldon for the Strict Interpretation of mixte-hood? Did all French builders use the TT stays? Philip www.biketinker.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Mixte frame design question
I agree. I recall the heated debates over fixed gear vs fixed wheel, as well as the Singlespeed is a misnomer, since they go many speeds! and Don't call it a fixie! controversies. I reject those on slightly different grounds, though. You undermined your whole position, though, by reminding me that I could ever use the word mamachari! As in, A true mixte is differentiated from a mamachari by its third set of stays. ;^) Philip www.bikepedantry.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Mixte frame design question
Speaking of fixed gear, now that I've got my correspondence course diploma on a frame I couldn't give away 10 years ago, I'd say my circle is almost complete. Jeff Ix-nay on the Mix-tay Hagedorn Warragul, VIC Australia . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
