Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?

2020-03-17 Thread david

On 3/15/20 9:38 PM, Will Godfrey wrote:

On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 11:50:30 -1000
"David W. Jones"  wrote:


Hmm. How is polyphonic aftertouch different from regular aftertouch?

Not that I have a keyboard that supports aftertouch, but someday I'll get one.

It is per key. So if you are holding down a chord then put extra pressure on
one key, *only* that one has the effect applied. This not only works well with
the left hand holding chords while the right hand plays a melody, but works
especially well with a split keyboard.


Sounds delightfully useful! :-)

--
David W. Jones
gn...@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?

2020-03-16 Thread Richard Bown
This is a thread of golden feedback! Wonderful to see RG alive and kicking
after all this time.

I always thought JACK MIDI was the sensible way to go seeing as Ardour
could then in theory effortlessly synchronise. But obviously it wasn't a
simple integration - I would've looked at it more closely if it were
simple!  The last couple of Windows ports targeted RtMidi because it was
very simple and lightweight but not sure how many people or indeed if
anyone used it - perhaps JACK could be revisited.  My intention (six months
ago?) was to get a regular, semi-automated, Windows build working without
any audio/MIDI support at all .. but even that got sidelined. Maybe now
life throws an opportunity...

Stay safe,
Richard

On Sun, 15 Mar 2020, 08:27 Will Godfrey, 
wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 20:24:55 -1000
> david  wrote:
>
> >I'm definitely not in the professional league!
> >
> >I use Rosegarden for making scores and recordings of those songs. I
> >usually use the DSSI plugin to interface with fluidsynth.
> >
> >My experience with RG and Yoshimi hasn't been good. Way too often, I get
> >a voice/setup I want in Yoshimi, point RG at it, and RG insists on using
> >Yoshimi's default first standard instrument. I have to go back into
> >Yoshimi and set it up again, then it works. Until the next time I open
> >the RG project ...
>
> This looks like Rosegarden is defaulting to General Midi and sending a
> reset,
> which Yoshimi of course obeys.
>
> I have my Rosegarden default file set up with:
> Manage MIDI Devices->MIDI Playback set to a new entry 'Yoshimi'
> I then set the track channels to that.
>
> --
> Will J Godfrey
> http://www.musically.me.uk
> Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
> Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
>
>
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Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?

2020-03-16 Thread Will Godfrey
On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 11:50:30 -1000
"David W. Jones"  wrote:

>Hmm. How is polyphonic aftertouch different from regular aftertouch?
>
>Not that I have a keyboard that supports aftertouch, but someday I'll get one.

It is per key. So if you are holding down a chord then put extra pressure on
one key, *only* that one has the effect applied. This not only works well with
the left hand holding chords while the right hand plays a melody, but works
especially well with a split keyboard.

-- 
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.


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Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?

2020-03-15 Thread David W. Jones
Hmm. How is polyphonic aftertouch different from regular aftertouch?

Not that I have a keyboard that supports aftertouch, but someday I'll get one.

On March 15, 2020 9:50:31 AM HST, Will Godfrey  
wrote:
>On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 20:06:27 -0400
>Ted Felix  wrote:
>
>>On 3/12/20 3:25 AM, Will Godfrey wrote:
>>> People want it so that they can use various effects and instrument
>plugins,
>>> some of which don't have stand-alone versions.  
>>
>>   Thanks, Will.
>>
>>   BTW, have you been working with the latest svn?  Some recent
>changes 
>>might affect you.  Hopefully you have time to run it through the
>wringer.
>>
>>Ted.
>
>I've been somewhat tied up with Yoshi stuff at the moment, but I'll try
>to find
>time to give it a spin.
>
>P.S. Advance warning!
>
>I'm currently working on polyphonic aftertouch, and as far as I can
>tell there
>is no controller support for this in Rosegarden.
>
>-- 
>Will J Godfrey
>http://www.musically.me.uk
>Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
>Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
>
>
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---
David W. Jones
gn...@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?

2020-03-15 Thread Will Godfrey
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 20:06:27 -0400
Ted Felix  wrote:

>On 3/12/20 3:25 AM, Will Godfrey wrote:
>> People want it so that they can use various effects and instrument plugins,
>> some of which don't have stand-alone versions.  
>
>   Thanks, Will.
>
>   BTW, have you been working with the latest svn?  Some recent changes 
>might affect you.  Hopefully you have time to run it through the wringer.
>
>Ted.

I've been somewhat tied up with Yoshi stuff at the moment, but I'll try to find
time to give it a spin.

P.S. Advance warning!

I'm currently working on polyphonic aftertouch, and as far as I can tell there
is no controller support for this in Rosegarden.

-- 
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.


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Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?

2020-03-15 Thread david

On 3/14/20 9:26 PM, Will Godfrey wrote:

On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 20:24:55 -1000
david  wrote:


I'm definitely not in the professional league!

I use Rosegarden for making scores and recordings of those songs. I
usually use the DSSI plugin to interface with fluidsynth.

My experience with RG and Yoshimi hasn't been good. Way too often, I get
a voice/setup I want in Yoshimi, point RG at it, and RG insists on using
Yoshimi's default first standard instrument. I have to go back into
Yoshimi and set it up again, then it works. Until the next time I open
the RG project ...

This looks like Rosegarden is defaulting to General Midi and sending a reset,
which Yoshimi of course obeys.

I have my Rosegarden default file set up with:
Manage MIDI Devices->MIDI Playback set to a new entry 'Yoshimi'
I then set the track channels to that.


How do you do that?


--
David W. Jones
gn...@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com



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Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?

2020-03-15 Thread Will Godfrey
On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 20:24:55 -1000
david  wrote:

>I'm definitely not in the professional league!
>
>I use Rosegarden for making scores and recordings of those songs. I 
>usually use the DSSI plugin to interface with fluidsynth.
>
>My experience with RG and Yoshimi hasn't been good. Way too often, I get 
>a voice/setup I want in Yoshimi, point RG at it, and RG insists on using 
>Yoshimi's default first standard instrument. I have to go back into 
>Yoshimi and set it up again, then it works. Until the next time I open 
>the RG project ...

This looks like Rosegarden is defaulting to General Midi and sending a reset,
which Yoshimi of course obeys.

I have my Rosegarden default file set up with:
Manage MIDI Devices->MIDI Playback set to a new entry 'Yoshimi'
I then set the track channels to that.

-- 
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.


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Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?

2020-03-15 Thread david

I'm definitely not in the professional league!

I use Rosegarden for making scores and recordings of those songs. I 
usually use the DSSI plugin to interface with fluidsynth.


My experience with RG and Yoshimi hasn't been good. Way too often, I get 
a voice/setup I want in Yoshimi, point RG at it, and RG insists on using 
Yoshimi's default first standard instrument. I have to go back into 
Yoshimi and set it up again, then it works. Until the next time I open 
the RG project ...


Since LV2 appears to be the intended replacement for LADSPA, LV2 support 
would be great. I have recorded audio into RG. But the ability to apply 
LV2 plugins to that or MIDI tracks would be nice.


I usually record RG output using jack_capture, then work that over in 
Audacity. So, in a sense, RG is my audio mixer. Ardour is confusing and 
(to me, at least) assumes that I'm a trained audio engineer. Great for 
those who are such, not so great for me.


I would like better score-focused functionality, thank you. RG and 
counterpoint only seem to occasionally get along. But LV2 support seems 
like a good idea, even if just on general principles.


A simple way to render an RG project would be nice, but I think it's 
easy to just fire up jack_capture with the JACK transport option. That 
works for me since I don't need to output RG tracks individually for 
mixing in Audacity or anything else.


To Chris, Ted, Michael and all the wonderful people who make Rosegarden 
- a big Hawaiian MAHALO NUI LOA!


On 3/14/20 3:17 AM, Michael N. Moran wrote:

Greetings,

In the spirit of use-cases, I'll chime-in.

I'm an occasional/casual user of Rosegarden and have been for many years.

I'm a very amateur guitar player and member of a church choir.

My most common use-case is that of trying to learn a particular vocal 
part (e.g. tenor) by listening to it over and over.


In this case, I will receive an octavo from the choir director and 
enter the part using the notation editor, and then play it back using 
a synth (e.g. fluidsynth).


Although the notation entry can be painfully slow, using Rosegarden 
has taught me a great deal about the intricacies of music notation. 
Thanks for that!


After using the notation editor to enter individual parts, I will 
sometimes use Ardour to create audio files which I then write a to 
CD-ROM for individual SATB parts for distribution to other choir members.


All this while using my beloved Linux machines that are the basis for 
my embedded-systems programming livelihood.


Thank you to all of the Rosegarden developers for your contributions.

- mike

On 3/14/20 4:31 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:

Hi all,

I think it's really interesting to learn about people's different 
workflows, especially in more professional settings like in this case.



--
David W. Jones
gn...@hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com



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Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?

2020-03-14 Thread Will Godfrey
On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 10:03:32 -0400
rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:

>On Saturday, March 14, 2020 04:31:42 AM Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
>> Sorry for the long email, we are locked at home here in Italy and maybe
>> more prone to techno-philosophical  thoughts :D  
>
>I hope you are reasonably comfortably locked in, stay safe, and get unlocked 
>soon!
>
Indeed! it's a strange world we live in these days.

-- 
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.


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Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?

2020-03-14 Thread rhkramer
On Saturday, March 14, 2020 04:31:42 AM Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
> Sorry for the long email, we are locked at home here in Italy and maybe
> more prone to techno-philosophical  thoughts :D

I hope you are reasonably comfortably locked in, stay safe, and get unlocked 
soon!


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Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?

2020-03-14 Thread Michael N. Moran

Greetings,

In the spirit of use-cases, I'll chime-in.

I'm an occasional/casual user of Rosegarden and have been 
for many years.


I'm a very amateur guitar player and member of a church choir.

My most common use-case is that of trying to learn a 
particular vocal part (e.g. tenor) by listening to it over 
and over.


In this case, I will receive an octavo from the choir 
director and enter the part using the notation editor, and 
then play it back using a synth (e.g. fluidsynth).


Although the notation entry can be painfully slow, using 
Rosegarden has taught me a great deal about the intricacies 
of music notation. Thanks for that!


After using the notation editor to enter individual parts, I 
will sometimes use Ardour to create audio files which I then 
write a to CD-ROM for individual SATB parts for distribution 
to other choir members.


All this while using my beloved Linux machines that are the 
basis for my embedded-systems programming livelihood.


Thank you to all of the Rosegarden developers for your 
contributions.


- mike

On 3/14/20 4:31 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:

Hi all,

I think it's really interesting to learn about people's 
different workflows, especially in more professional 
settings like in this case.




--
Michael N. Moran   (h) 770 704 9751
218 Wilshire Terrace   (c) 678 521 5460
White, GA, USA 30184   http://mnmoran.org



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Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?

2020-03-14 Thread Lorenzo Sutton

Hi all,

I think it's really interesting to learn about people's different 
workflows, especially in more professional settings like in this case.


I guess it would also be nice to know what people might like in terms of 
more 'sequencer' related features. For me Rosegarden has always been 
primarily a sequencer with lots of really cool 'bonus' so to say 
features. For instance, I think Rosegarden's notation support is 
fantastis (I'm thinking primarily of composition, but its export to 
Lilypond is also really nice).


Honestly I have never used the audio features that much, but that's 
because my Linux set-ups are always very modular and I try to focus on 
different parts. i.e. I mostly use Ardour for audio and if needed I sync 
with jack transport.


IIRC the LV2 (and plugins) issues has often come up with new or 
'wannabe' Rosegarden users, but if the real user community doesn't see 
it as a priority, personally I can live with a no-plugins Rosegarden... 
For instance when composing with Yoshimi my workflow is exactly like 
Will's: rosegarden connected to Yoshimi via alsa-midi and saving 
Rosegarden file and yoshmi states, the only difference is that for the 
final 'master' I use mhwaveeditor which is a rather minimalistic 
single-file wave editor and works very well with jack, I will then just 
touch the global volume do a fade-out adjustment and that's it.


As some people maybe know I even did an entire feature film original 
soundtrack entirely with Rosegarden + a bunch of stand-alone synths 
including Yoshimi (85%), fluidsynth, hexter, linuxsampler. jack 
transport with xjadeo was a key feature to sync with the video and other 
probably mostly unknown Rosegarden features such as the ability to have 
the start of a piece _after_ measure 1.


I _did_ miss because of time constraints and length of music a way to 
'render' stuff directly to an audio file without having to 'record' it. 
If you think about it, it doesn't really make much sense unless you are 
doing something interactive or live to have to manually 'record' stuff 
digitally :)


Sorry for the long email, we are locked at home here in Italy and maybe 
more prone to techno-philosophical  thoughts :D


Lorenzo.

On 14/03/20 00:12, r...@hydrophones.com wrote:

Yeah, I do something similar.  I record the raw audio tracks with Rosegarden
and then when I have all the tracks (and then some), I pull them into
Audacity for editing, mixing, and processing.  Outputs are usually stereo,
5.1, and 7.1 flac files to be merged with video.

I use a Linux cluster and quite a bit of external MIDI gear.  Jack, MIDI,
and Netjack interfacing are important to my uses.



Just adding my take on the audio front.

I frequently collaborate with people who send me audio guitar and/or vocal
tracks. I load these into Rosegarden, then produce MIDI tracks to make my
additions. On very rare occasion I'll do some processing of the audio with
plugins in Rosegarden, but I prefer to pre-process externally, usually
with Audacity.

Once I have a project complete, I'll then play the audio from Rosegarden
into
Audacity in parallel with audio from Yoshimi to produce the complete
stereo
track. Finally, in Audacity, I'll trim start and end, and maybe run the
fast
lookahead limiter and set the overall level.

For anyone interested below is a typical example from some years back.
Vocal and
guitar is from Ged, the rest is Yoshimi.

https://soundcloud.com/soft-sounds/scarborough-fair-feat-rustysrtingz

--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.


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Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?

2020-03-13 Thread ram
Yeah, I do something similar.  I record the raw audio tracks with Rosegarden
and then when I have all the tracks (and then some), I pull them into
Audacity for editing, mixing, and processing.  Outputs are usually stereo,
5.1, and 7.1 flac files to be merged with video.

I use a Linux cluster and quite a bit of external MIDI gear.  Jack, MIDI,
and Netjack interfacing are important to my uses.


> Just adding my take on the audio front.
>
> I frequently collaborate with people who send me audio guitar and/or vocal
> tracks. I load these into Rosegarden, then produce MIDI tracks to make my
> additions. On very rare occasion I'll do some processing of the audio with
> plugins in Rosegarden, but I prefer to pre-process externally, usually
> with Audacity.
>
> Once I have a project complete, I'll then play the audio from Rosegarden
> into
> Audacity in parallel with audio from Yoshimi to produce the complete
> stereo
> track. Finally, in Audacity, I'll trim start and end, and maybe run the
> fast
> lookahead limiter and set the overall level.
>
> For anyone interested below is a typical example from some years back.
> Vocal and
> guitar is from Ged, the rest is Yoshimi.
>
> https://soundcloud.com/soft-sounds/scarborough-fair-feat-rustysrtingz
>
> --
> Will J Godfrey
> http://www.musically.me.uk
> Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
> Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
>
>
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>




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Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?

2020-03-13 Thread Will Godfrey
Just adding my take on the audio front.

I frequently collaborate with people who send me audio guitar and/or vocal
tracks. I load these into Rosegarden, then produce MIDI tracks to make my
additions. On very rare occasion I'll do some processing of the audio with
plugins in Rosegarden, but I prefer to pre-process externally, usually
with Audacity.

Once I have a project complete, I'll then play the audio from Rosegarden into
Audacity in parallel with audio from Yoshimi to produce the complete stereo
track. Finally, in Audacity, I'll trim start and end, and maybe run the fast
lookahead limiter and set the overall level.

For anyone interested below is a typical example from some years back. Vocal and
guitar is from Ged, the rest is Yoshimi.

https://soundcloud.com/soft-sounds/scarborough-fair-feat-rustysrtingz

-- 
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.


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Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?

2020-03-13 Thread Demonic Sweaters

Chiming in as well,

There's a few points I've read in this list that I wanted to respond to.

1. nobody uses rosegarden for audio - I actually have, and do, several 
songs have even been released on some albums of mine recorded this way. 
Sure, it's not the most fully featured for audio, but I've made it work. 
Also when using midi hardware with Rosegarden, it's great to be able to 
pipe the audio back into the project and record as a way to 'freeze' the 
track.


2. audio plugins useless for midi - I don't agree here either, because 
of the reasons above, and many times I will use audio reverbs, delays, 
ect... on midi instruments if they're available.


3. Everyone uses Ardour - I don't think so. Myself and many others don't 
really care for it's UI and don't even see it as one of the top 3 
options in Linux. I prefer, Reaper, Qtractor, and Rosegarden.


4. Lastly, LV2 - Well personally I think LinuxVST would be a far better 
way to go if anything, but since VST is a Steinberg tech, maybe you guys 
wouldn't want to go that way. LV2, is a good second choice. I never use 
DSSI except occasionally Hexter.


Best,

Justin

www.demonicsweaters.com


On 3/13/20 7:26 AM, r...@hydrophones.com wrote:

Hi all,

Just my two cents.  We use Rosegarden regularly for the creation of video,
game, and museum display, soundtracks.

We don't use LV2 plugins, and very seldom use any plugins at all.

I, personally, would prefer if Rosegarden interfaced better with Jack/MIDI
and the like as most of the synthesis we do is on other machines, often
using NETJACK in one form or another.  Work arounds exist, but they are
cumbersome and annoying.

I'm sorry that I don't contribute as much technically, and otherwise, to
the project than I used to, but my company is still a heavy Rosegarden
user and we can contribute significant resources if need be.

Best regards,

Richard A. Marschall, Ph.D.
Director, Engineering
Marschall Acoustics Instruments P/L

r...@hydrophones.com





On 3/11/20 11:43 PM, Ted Felix wrote:

    Just wondering why folks want LV2 support.  Not that I'll ever get
to
it, but some justification will help focus the effort.  Thanks.

I've been ignoring the issue for quite a few years, but I spent some
time today looking at what lv2 is, what plugins are out there, what
supports them, etc., and I have to say I wouldn't mind trying some of
those out.

One of the biggest problems I can imagine is that lv2 can be the
equivalent of either LADSPA or DSSI, or maybe even both in one (I didn't
dive that deeply). Chris Cannam was one of the original creators of
DSSI, and Rosegarden was one of the original hosts. There's a pretty
clear divide between "audio plugin" and "synth plugin" in Rosegarden,
although under the hood they do have significant redundancy, if not
actual overlap (and I'm not sure which, as I haven't been in that code
in eons). That might make things tricky.

Finally, there's the real question of who would use it. Synth plugins
are arguably useful to Rosegarden users, but audio plugins are pretty
irrelevant except in connection with synth plugins. Nobody uses the
audio features. I would have tried if I had been able to get my audio
rack to work with Linux, but I would have ended up having to use
something more robust myself. Rosegarden is missing a lot of
functionality, and the Linux audio community is totally dominated by
Ardour, so even if we built it, nobody would use it. If we were doing
Rosegarden from scratch, there would just be no point in including audio
features at all.

So I come down as kind of meh on the whole thing. It would be neat to
play with if it doesn't require massive investment of effort on your
part, but the reality is you're probably going to see really limited
returns from the community. If you build it, they might come, or they
might just yawn.

--
D. Michael McIntyre


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Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?

2020-03-13 Thread ram
Hi all,

Just my two cents.  We use Rosegarden regularly for the creation of video,
game, and museum display, soundtracks.

We don't use LV2 plugins, and very seldom use any plugins at all.

I, personally, would prefer if Rosegarden interfaced better with Jack/MIDI
and the like as most of the synthesis we do is on other machines, often
using NETJACK in one form or another.  Work arounds exist, but they are
cumbersome and annoying.

I'm sorry that I don't contribute as much technically, and otherwise, to
the project than I used to, but my company is still a heavy Rosegarden
user and we can contribute significant resources if need be.

Best regards,

Richard A. Marschall, Ph.D.
Director, Engineering
Marschall Acoustics Instruments P/L

r...@hydrophones.com




> On 3/11/20 11:43 PM, Ted Felix wrote:
>>    Just wondering why folks want LV2 support.  Not that I'll ever get
>> to
>> it, but some justification will help focus the effort.  Thanks.
>
> I've been ignoring the issue for quite a few years, but I spent some
> time today looking at what lv2 is, what plugins are out there, what
> supports them, etc., and I have to say I wouldn't mind trying some of
> those out.
>
> One of the biggest problems I can imagine is that lv2 can be the
> equivalent of either LADSPA or DSSI, or maybe even both in one (I didn't
> dive that deeply). Chris Cannam was one of the original creators of
> DSSI, and Rosegarden was one of the original hosts. There's a pretty
> clear divide between "audio plugin" and "synth plugin" in Rosegarden,
> although under the hood they do have significant redundancy, if not
> actual overlap (and I'm not sure which, as I haven't been in that code
> in eons). That might make things tricky.
>
> Finally, there's the real question of who would use it. Synth plugins
> are arguably useful to Rosegarden users, but audio plugins are pretty
> irrelevant except in connection with synth plugins. Nobody uses the
> audio features. I would have tried if I had been able to get my audio
> rack to work with Linux, but I would have ended up having to use
> something more robust myself. Rosegarden is missing a lot of
> functionality, and the Linux audio community is totally dominated by
> Ardour, so even if we built it, nobody would use it. If we were doing
> Rosegarden from scratch, there would just be no point in including audio
> features at all.
>
> So I come down as kind of meh on the whole thing. It would be neat to
> play with if it doesn't require massive investment of effort on your
> part, but the reality is you're probably going to see really limited
> returns from the community. If you build it, they might come, or they
> might just yawn.
>
> --
> D. Michael McIntyre
>
>
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Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?

2020-03-13 Thread D. Michael McIntyre

On 3/11/20 11:43 PM, Ted Felix wrote:
   Just wondering why folks want LV2 support.  Not that I'll ever get to 
it, but some justification will help focus the effort.  Thanks.


I've been ignoring the issue for quite a few years, but I spent some 
time today looking at what lv2 is, what plugins are out there, what 
supports them, etc., and I have to say I wouldn't mind trying some of 
those out.


One of the biggest problems I can imagine is that lv2 can be the 
equivalent of either LADSPA or DSSI, or maybe even both in one (I didn't 
dive that deeply). Chris Cannam was one of the original creators of 
DSSI, and Rosegarden was one of the original hosts. There's a pretty 
clear divide between "audio plugin" and "synth plugin" in Rosegarden, 
although under the hood they do have significant redundancy, if not 
actual overlap (and I'm not sure which, as I haven't been in that code 
in eons). That might make things tricky.


Finally, there's the real question of who would use it. Synth plugins 
are arguably useful to Rosegarden users, but audio plugins are pretty 
irrelevant except in connection with synth plugins. Nobody uses the 
audio features. I would have tried if I had been able to get my audio 
rack to work with Linux, but I would have ended up having to use 
something more robust myself. Rosegarden is missing a lot of 
functionality, and the Linux audio community is totally dominated by 
Ardour, so even if we built it, nobody would use it. If we were doing 
Rosegarden from scratch, there would just be no point in including audio 
features at all.


So I come down as kind of meh on the whole thing. It would be neat to 
play with if it doesn't require massive investment of effort on your 
part, but the reality is you're probably going to see really limited 
returns from the community. If you build it, they might come, or they 
might just yawn.


--
D. Michael McIntyre


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Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?

2020-03-12 Thread Lorenzo Sutton

On 12/03/20 04:43, Ted Felix wrote:
   Just wondering why folks want LV2 support.  Not that I'll ever get to 
it, but some justification will help focus the effort.  Thanks.


Quick answer would be: upgrade DSSI/LADSPA support as LV2 is now the 'de 
facto' plugin standard on linux (and for most FLOSS plugins). But, do we 
still want to pursue plugin support?


Longer and somewhat over-reaching answer(s).

So there's another angle: making Rosegarden 'self-contained'. Personally 
I'm quite happy with set-ups like the one Will describes with Yoshimi, 
essentially Rosegarden as a 'pure' sequencer connected (via alsa-midi) 
to other stuff. On the other hand there _are_ use cases where users 
would like to be able to do all of their music production within 
Rosegarden and currently having just DSSI is pretty limiting.


Now, as we know adding LV2 support, if ever, will not really make 
Rosegarden truly 'self-contained', because from the user's point of view 
there is still no ability or to 'render' rosegarden projects (i.e. like 
users can do in example in Qtractor or LMMS or Ardour). Which means if 
LV2 is supported but then you neet to 'record' the output we might as 
well just work (for example) with a host like Carla and then use that 
and concentrate on more sequencer features.


So I think there are 2 routes:
1. Radical sequencer, linux philosophy approach (one tool for one task, 
in this case sequencing):

- Ditch or put in low priority any plugin support
- Concentrate on sequencer-related bugs, features, improvements etc.
- Improve documentation / tutorials on how to use this approach at best
2. The 'DAW' approach:
	- Rendering support (learn how Qtractor does it as it also is alsa-midi 
only and using Qt to be practical)

- LV2 support (at least, maybe even Linux VST)
- Add more DAW (i.e. audio features)

Finally, I had the (probably wrong, but someone correct me / amend this) 
assumption that 1. and 2. could somewhat be reconciled by adding 
jack-midi support. Why? I thought if we had jack-midi we could 
effectively use jack freewheel to 'render' quickly (that's what ardour 
does internally): turns out this might not be as easy.


Lorenzo.



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Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?

2020-03-12 Thread Ted Felix

On 3/12/20 3:25 AM, Will Godfrey wrote:

People want it so that they can use various effects and instrument plugins,
some of which don't have stand-alone versions.


  Thanks, Will.

  BTW, have you been working with the latest svn?  Some recent changes 
might affect you.  Hopefully you have time to run it through the wringer.


Ted.


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Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?

2020-03-12 Thread Will Godfrey
On Wed, 11 Mar 2020 23:43:47 -0400
Ted Felix  wrote:

>   Just wondering why folks want LV2 support.  Not that I'll ever get to 
>it, but some justification will help focus the effort.  Thanks.
>
>Ted.
People want it so that they can use various effects and instrument plugins,
some of which don't have stand-alone versions. I've no interest in it myself
however. As far as I'm concerned, with it's really proscriptive, yet poorly
standardised API it's very much a case of the tail wagging the dog :(

For some use-cases having jack MIDI capability would be of more value - although
I don't need that myself. My combination of Rosegarden plus Yoshimi does almost
everything I want. Just occasionally I'll add in Qsynth or Hydrogen.

HTH.

-- 
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.


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