Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?
On 3/15/20 9:38 PM, Will Godfrey wrote: On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 11:50:30 -1000 "David W. Jones" wrote: Hmm. How is polyphonic aftertouch different from regular aftertouch? Not that I have a keyboard that supports aftertouch, but someday I'll get one. It is per key. So if you are holding down a chord then put extra pressure on one key, *only* that one has the effect applied. This not only works well with the left hand holding chords while the right hand plays a melody, but works especially well with a split keyboard. Sounds delightfully useful! :-) -- David W. Jones gn...@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?
This is a thread of golden feedback! Wonderful to see RG alive and kicking after all this time. I always thought JACK MIDI was the sensible way to go seeing as Ardour could then in theory effortlessly synchronise. But obviously it wasn't a simple integration - I would've looked at it more closely if it were simple! The last couple of Windows ports targeted RtMidi because it was very simple and lightweight but not sure how many people or indeed if anyone used it - perhaps JACK could be revisited. My intention (six months ago?) was to get a regular, semi-automated, Windows build working without any audio/MIDI support at all .. but even that got sidelined. Maybe now life throws an opportunity... Stay safe, Richard On Sun, 15 Mar 2020, 08:27 Will Godfrey, wrote: > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 20:24:55 -1000 > david wrote: > > >I'm definitely not in the professional league! > > > >I use Rosegarden for making scores and recordings of those songs. I > >usually use the DSSI plugin to interface with fluidsynth. > > > >My experience with RG and Yoshimi hasn't been good. Way too often, I get > >a voice/setup I want in Yoshimi, point RG at it, and RG insists on using > >Yoshimi's default first standard instrument. I have to go back into > >Yoshimi and set it up again, then it works. Until the next time I open > >the RG project ... > > This looks like Rosegarden is defaulting to General Midi and sending a > reset, > which Yoshimi of course obeys. > > I have my Rosegarden default file set up with: > Manage MIDI Devices->MIDI Playback set to a new entry 'Yoshimi' > I then set the track channels to that. > > -- > Will J Godfrey > http://www.musically.me.uk > Say you have a poem and I have a tune. > Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. > > > ___ > Rosegarden-user mailing list > Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user > ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?
On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 11:50:30 -1000 "David W. Jones" wrote: >Hmm. How is polyphonic aftertouch different from regular aftertouch? > >Not that I have a keyboard that supports aftertouch, but someday I'll get one. It is per key. So if you are holding down a chord then put extra pressure on one key, *only* that one has the effect applied. This not only works well with the left hand holding chords while the right hand plays a melody, but works especially well with a split keyboard. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?
Hmm. How is polyphonic aftertouch different from regular aftertouch? Not that I have a keyboard that supports aftertouch, but someday I'll get one. On March 15, 2020 9:50:31 AM HST, Will Godfrey wrote: >On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 20:06:27 -0400 >Ted Felix wrote: > >>On 3/12/20 3:25 AM, Will Godfrey wrote: >>> People want it so that they can use various effects and instrument >plugins, >>> some of which don't have stand-alone versions. >> >> Thanks, Will. >> >> BTW, have you been working with the latest svn? Some recent >changes >>might affect you. Hopefully you have time to run it through the >wringer. >> >>Ted. > >I've been somewhat tied up with Yoshi stuff at the moment, but I'll try >to find >time to give it a spin. > >P.S. Advance warning! > >I'm currently working on polyphonic aftertouch, and as far as I can >tell there >is no controller support for this in Rosegarden. > >-- >Will J Godfrey >http://www.musically.me.uk >Say you have a poem and I have a tune. >Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. > > >___ >Rosegarden-user mailing list >Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to >unsubscribe >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user --- David W. Jones gn...@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com Sent from my Android device with F/LOSS K-9 Mail.___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?
On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 20:06:27 -0400 Ted Felix wrote: >On 3/12/20 3:25 AM, Will Godfrey wrote: >> People want it so that they can use various effects and instrument plugins, >> some of which don't have stand-alone versions. > > Thanks, Will. > > BTW, have you been working with the latest svn? Some recent changes >might affect you. Hopefully you have time to run it through the wringer. > >Ted. I've been somewhat tied up with Yoshi stuff at the moment, but I'll try to find time to give it a spin. P.S. Advance warning! I'm currently working on polyphonic aftertouch, and as far as I can tell there is no controller support for this in Rosegarden. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?
On 3/14/20 9:26 PM, Will Godfrey wrote: On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 20:24:55 -1000 david wrote: I'm definitely not in the professional league! I use Rosegarden for making scores and recordings of those songs. I usually use the DSSI plugin to interface with fluidsynth. My experience with RG and Yoshimi hasn't been good. Way too often, I get a voice/setup I want in Yoshimi, point RG at it, and RG insists on using Yoshimi's default first standard instrument. I have to go back into Yoshimi and set it up again, then it works. Until the next time I open the RG project ... This looks like Rosegarden is defaulting to General Midi and sending a reset, which Yoshimi of course obeys. I have my Rosegarden default file set up with: Manage MIDI Devices->MIDI Playback set to a new entry 'Yoshimi' I then set the track channels to that. How do you do that? -- David W. Jones gn...@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?
On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 20:24:55 -1000 david wrote: >I'm definitely not in the professional league! > >I use Rosegarden for making scores and recordings of those songs. I >usually use the DSSI plugin to interface with fluidsynth. > >My experience with RG and Yoshimi hasn't been good. Way too often, I get >a voice/setup I want in Yoshimi, point RG at it, and RG insists on using >Yoshimi's default first standard instrument. I have to go back into >Yoshimi and set it up again, then it works. Until the next time I open >the RG project ... This looks like Rosegarden is defaulting to General Midi and sending a reset, which Yoshimi of course obeys. I have my Rosegarden default file set up with: Manage MIDI Devices->MIDI Playback set to a new entry 'Yoshimi' I then set the track channels to that. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?
I'm definitely not in the professional league! I use Rosegarden for making scores and recordings of those songs. I usually use the DSSI plugin to interface with fluidsynth. My experience with RG and Yoshimi hasn't been good. Way too often, I get a voice/setup I want in Yoshimi, point RG at it, and RG insists on using Yoshimi's default first standard instrument. I have to go back into Yoshimi and set it up again, then it works. Until the next time I open the RG project ... Since LV2 appears to be the intended replacement for LADSPA, LV2 support would be great. I have recorded audio into RG. But the ability to apply LV2 plugins to that or MIDI tracks would be nice. I usually record RG output using jack_capture, then work that over in Audacity. So, in a sense, RG is my audio mixer. Ardour is confusing and (to me, at least) assumes that I'm a trained audio engineer. Great for those who are such, not so great for me. I would like better score-focused functionality, thank you. RG and counterpoint only seem to occasionally get along. But LV2 support seems like a good idea, even if just on general principles. A simple way to render an RG project would be nice, but I think it's easy to just fire up jack_capture with the JACK transport option. That works for me since I don't need to output RG tracks individually for mixing in Audacity or anything else. To Chris, Ted, Michael and all the wonderful people who make Rosegarden - a big Hawaiian MAHALO NUI LOA! On 3/14/20 3:17 AM, Michael N. Moran wrote: Greetings, In the spirit of use-cases, I'll chime-in. I'm an occasional/casual user of Rosegarden and have been for many years. I'm a very amateur guitar player and member of a church choir. My most common use-case is that of trying to learn a particular vocal part (e.g. tenor) by listening to it over and over. In this case, I will receive an octavo from the choir director and enter the part using the notation editor, and then play it back using a synth (e.g. fluidsynth). Although the notation entry can be painfully slow, using Rosegarden has taught me a great deal about the intricacies of music notation. Thanks for that! After using the notation editor to enter individual parts, I will sometimes use Ardour to create audio files which I then write a to CD-ROM for individual SATB parts for distribution to other choir members. All this while using my beloved Linux machines that are the basis for my embedded-systems programming livelihood. Thank you to all of the Rosegarden developers for your contributions. - mike On 3/14/20 4:31 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: Hi all, I think it's really interesting to learn about people's different workflows, especially in more professional settings like in this case. -- David W. Jones gn...@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?
On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 10:03:32 -0400 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: >On Saturday, March 14, 2020 04:31:42 AM Lorenzo Sutton wrote: >> Sorry for the long email, we are locked at home here in Italy and maybe >> more prone to techno-philosophical thoughts :D > >I hope you are reasonably comfortably locked in, stay safe, and get unlocked >soon! > Indeed! it's a strange world we live in these days. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?
On Saturday, March 14, 2020 04:31:42 AM Lorenzo Sutton wrote: > Sorry for the long email, we are locked at home here in Italy and maybe > more prone to techno-philosophical thoughts :D I hope you are reasonably comfortably locked in, stay safe, and get unlocked soon! ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?
Greetings, In the spirit of use-cases, I'll chime-in. I'm an occasional/casual user of Rosegarden and have been for many years. I'm a very amateur guitar player and member of a church choir. My most common use-case is that of trying to learn a particular vocal part (e.g. tenor) by listening to it over and over. In this case, I will receive an octavo from the choir director and enter the part using the notation editor, and then play it back using a synth (e.g. fluidsynth). Although the notation entry can be painfully slow, using Rosegarden has taught me a great deal about the intricacies of music notation. Thanks for that! After using the notation editor to enter individual parts, I will sometimes use Ardour to create audio files which I then write a to CD-ROM for individual SATB parts for distribution to other choir members. All this while using my beloved Linux machines that are the basis for my embedded-systems programming livelihood. Thank you to all of the Rosegarden developers for your contributions. - mike On 3/14/20 4:31 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: Hi all, I think it's really interesting to learn about people's different workflows, especially in more professional settings like in this case. -- Michael N. Moran (h) 770 704 9751 218 Wilshire Terrace (c) 678 521 5460 White, GA, USA 30184 http://mnmoran.org ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?
Hi all, I think it's really interesting to learn about people's different workflows, especially in more professional settings like in this case. I guess it would also be nice to know what people might like in terms of more 'sequencer' related features. For me Rosegarden has always been primarily a sequencer with lots of really cool 'bonus' so to say features. For instance, I think Rosegarden's notation support is fantastis (I'm thinking primarily of composition, but its export to Lilypond is also really nice). Honestly I have never used the audio features that much, but that's because my Linux set-ups are always very modular and I try to focus on different parts. i.e. I mostly use Ardour for audio and if needed I sync with jack transport. IIRC the LV2 (and plugins) issues has often come up with new or 'wannabe' Rosegarden users, but if the real user community doesn't see it as a priority, personally I can live with a no-plugins Rosegarden... For instance when composing with Yoshimi my workflow is exactly like Will's: rosegarden connected to Yoshimi via alsa-midi and saving Rosegarden file and yoshmi states, the only difference is that for the final 'master' I use mhwaveeditor which is a rather minimalistic single-file wave editor and works very well with jack, I will then just touch the global volume do a fade-out adjustment and that's it. As some people maybe know I even did an entire feature film original soundtrack entirely with Rosegarden + a bunch of stand-alone synths including Yoshimi (85%), fluidsynth, hexter, linuxsampler. jack transport with xjadeo was a key feature to sync with the video and other probably mostly unknown Rosegarden features such as the ability to have the start of a piece _after_ measure 1. I _did_ miss because of time constraints and length of music a way to 'render' stuff directly to an audio file without having to 'record' it. If you think about it, it doesn't really make much sense unless you are doing something interactive or live to have to manually 'record' stuff digitally :) Sorry for the long email, we are locked at home here in Italy and maybe more prone to techno-philosophical thoughts :D Lorenzo. On 14/03/20 00:12, r...@hydrophones.com wrote: Yeah, I do something similar. I record the raw audio tracks with Rosegarden and then when I have all the tracks (and then some), I pull them into Audacity for editing, mixing, and processing. Outputs are usually stereo, 5.1, and 7.1 flac files to be merged with video. I use a Linux cluster and quite a bit of external MIDI gear. Jack, MIDI, and Netjack interfacing are important to my uses. Just adding my take on the audio front. I frequently collaborate with people who send me audio guitar and/or vocal tracks. I load these into Rosegarden, then produce MIDI tracks to make my additions. On very rare occasion I'll do some processing of the audio with plugins in Rosegarden, but I prefer to pre-process externally, usually with Audacity. Once I have a project complete, I'll then play the audio from Rosegarden into Audacity in parallel with audio from Yoshimi to produce the complete stereo track. Finally, in Audacity, I'll trim start and end, and maybe run the fast lookahead limiter and set the overall level. For anyone interested below is a typical example from some years back. Vocal and guitar is from Ged, the rest is Yoshimi. https://soundcloud.com/soft-sounds/scarborough-fair-feat-rustysrtingz -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?
Yeah, I do something similar. I record the raw audio tracks with Rosegarden and then when I have all the tracks (and then some), I pull them into Audacity for editing, mixing, and processing. Outputs are usually stereo, 5.1, and 7.1 flac files to be merged with video. I use a Linux cluster and quite a bit of external MIDI gear. Jack, MIDI, and Netjack interfacing are important to my uses. > Just adding my take on the audio front. > > I frequently collaborate with people who send me audio guitar and/or vocal > tracks. I load these into Rosegarden, then produce MIDI tracks to make my > additions. On very rare occasion I'll do some processing of the audio with > plugins in Rosegarden, but I prefer to pre-process externally, usually > with Audacity. > > Once I have a project complete, I'll then play the audio from Rosegarden > into > Audacity in parallel with audio from Yoshimi to produce the complete > stereo > track. Finally, in Audacity, I'll trim start and end, and maybe run the > fast > lookahead limiter and set the overall level. > > For anyone interested below is a typical example from some years back. > Vocal and > guitar is from Ged, the rest is Yoshimi. > > https://soundcloud.com/soft-sounds/scarborough-fair-feat-rustysrtingz > > -- > Will J Godfrey > http://www.musically.me.uk > Say you have a poem and I have a tune. > Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. > > > ___ > Rosegarden-user mailing list > Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user > ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?
Just adding my take on the audio front. I frequently collaborate with people who send me audio guitar and/or vocal tracks. I load these into Rosegarden, then produce MIDI tracks to make my additions. On very rare occasion I'll do some processing of the audio with plugins in Rosegarden, but I prefer to pre-process externally, usually with Audacity. Once I have a project complete, I'll then play the audio from Rosegarden into Audacity in parallel with audio from Yoshimi to produce the complete stereo track. Finally, in Audacity, I'll trim start and end, and maybe run the fast lookahead limiter and set the overall level. For anyone interested below is a typical example from some years back. Vocal and guitar is from Ged, the rest is Yoshimi. https://soundcloud.com/soft-sounds/scarborough-fair-feat-rustysrtingz -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?
Chiming in as well, There's a few points I've read in this list that I wanted to respond to. 1. nobody uses rosegarden for audio - I actually have, and do, several songs have even been released on some albums of mine recorded this way. Sure, it's not the most fully featured for audio, but I've made it work. Also when using midi hardware with Rosegarden, it's great to be able to pipe the audio back into the project and record as a way to 'freeze' the track. 2. audio plugins useless for midi - I don't agree here either, because of the reasons above, and many times I will use audio reverbs, delays, ect... on midi instruments if they're available. 3. Everyone uses Ardour - I don't think so. Myself and many others don't really care for it's UI and don't even see it as one of the top 3 options in Linux. I prefer, Reaper, Qtractor, and Rosegarden. 4. Lastly, LV2 - Well personally I think LinuxVST would be a far better way to go if anything, but since VST is a Steinberg tech, maybe you guys wouldn't want to go that way. LV2, is a good second choice. I never use DSSI except occasionally Hexter. Best, Justin www.demonicsweaters.com On 3/13/20 7:26 AM, r...@hydrophones.com wrote: Hi all, Just my two cents. We use Rosegarden regularly for the creation of video, game, and museum display, soundtracks. We don't use LV2 plugins, and very seldom use any plugins at all. I, personally, would prefer if Rosegarden interfaced better with Jack/MIDI and the like as most of the synthesis we do is on other machines, often using NETJACK in one form or another. Work arounds exist, but they are cumbersome and annoying. I'm sorry that I don't contribute as much technically, and otherwise, to the project than I used to, but my company is still a heavy Rosegarden user and we can contribute significant resources if need be. Best regards, Richard A. Marschall, Ph.D. Director, Engineering Marschall Acoustics Instruments P/L r...@hydrophones.com On 3/11/20 11:43 PM, Ted Felix wrote:  Just wondering why folks want LV2 support. Not that I'll ever get to it, but some justification will help focus the effort. Thanks. I've been ignoring the issue for quite a few years, but I spent some time today looking at what lv2 is, what plugins are out there, what supports them, etc., and I have to say I wouldn't mind trying some of those out. One of the biggest problems I can imagine is that lv2 can be the equivalent of either LADSPA or DSSI, or maybe even both in one (I didn't dive that deeply). Chris Cannam was one of the original creators of DSSI, and Rosegarden was one of the original hosts. There's a pretty clear divide between "audio plugin" and "synth plugin" in Rosegarden, although under the hood they do have significant redundancy, if not actual overlap (and I'm not sure which, as I haven't been in that code in eons). That might make things tricky. Finally, there's the real question of who would use it. Synth plugins are arguably useful to Rosegarden users, but audio plugins are pretty irrelevant except in connection with synth plugins. Nobody uses the audio features. I would have tried if I had been able to get my audio rack to work with Linux, but I would have ended up having to use something more robust myself. Rosegarden is missing a lot of functionality, and the Linux audio community is totally dominated by Ardour, so even if we built it, nobody would use it. If we were doing Rosegarden from scratch, there would just be no point in including audio features at all. So I come down as kind of meh on the whole thing. It would be neat to play with if it doesn't require massive investment of effort on your part, but the reality is you're probably going to see really limited returns from the community. If you build it, they might come, or they might just yawn. -- D. Michael McIntyre ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?
Hi all, Just my two cents. We use Rosegarden regularly for the creation of video, game, and museum display, soundtracks. We don't use LV2 plugins, and very seldom use any plugins at all. I, personally, would prefer if Rosegarden interfaced better with Jack/MIDI and the like as most of the synthesis we do is on other machines, often using NETJACK in one form or another. Work arounds exist, but they are cumbersome and annoying. I'm sorry that I don't contribute as much technically, and otherwise, to the project than I used to, but my company is still a heavy Rosegarden user and we can contribute significant resources if need be. Best regards, Richard A. Marschall, Ph.D. Director, Engineering Marschall Acoustics Instruments P/L r...@hydrophones.com > On 3/11/20 11:43 PM, Ted Felix wrote: >>  Just wondering why folks want LV2 support. Not that I'll ever get >> to >> it, but some justification will help focus the effort. Thanks. > > I've been ignoring the issue for quite a few years, but I spent some > time today looking at what lv2 is, what plugins are out there, what > supports them, etc., and I have to say I wouldn't mind trying some of > those out. > > One of the biggest problems I can imagine is that lv2 can be the > equivalent of either LADSPA or DSSI, or maybe even both in one (I didn't > dive that deeply). Chris Cannam was one of the original creators of > DSSI, and Rosegarden was one of the original hosts. There's a pretty > clear divide between "audio plugin" and "synth plugin" in Rosegarden, > although under the hood they do have significant redundancy, if not > actual overlap (and I'm not sure which, as I haven't been in that code > in eons). That might make things tricky. > > Finally, there's the real question of who would use it. Synth plugins > are arguably useful to Rosegarden users, but audio plugins are pretty > irrelevant except in connection with synth plugins. Nobody uses the > audio features. I would have tried if I had been able to get my audio > rack to work with Linux, but I would have ended up having to use > something more robust myself. Rosegarden is missing a lot of > functionality, and the Linux audio community is totally dominated by > Ardour, so even if we built it, nobody would use it. If we were doing > Rosegarden from scratch, there would just be no point in including audio > features at all. > > So I come down as kind of meh on the whole thing. It would be neat to > play with if it doesn't require massive investment of effort on your > part, but the reality is you're probably going to see really limited > returns from the community. If you build it, they might come, or they > might just yawn. > > -- > D. Michael McIntyre > > > ___ > Rosegarden-user mailing list > Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user > ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?
On 3/11/20 11:43 PM, Ted Felix wrote: Just wondering why folks want LV2 support. Not that I'll ever get to it, but some justification will help focus the effort. Thanks. I've been ignoring the issue for quite a few years, but I spent some time today looking at what lv2 is, what plugins are out there, what supports them, etc., and I have to say I wouldn't mind trying some of those out. One of the biggest problems I can imagine is that lv2 can be the equivalent of either LADSPA or DSSI, or maybe even both in one (I didn't dive that deeply). Chris Cannam was one of the original creators of DSSI, and Rosegarden was one of the original hosts. There's a pretty clear divide between "audio plugin" and "synth plugin" in Rosegarden, although under the hood they do have significant redundancy, if not actual overlap (and I'm not sure which, as I haven't been in that code in eons). That might make things tricky. Finally, there's the real question of who would use it. Synth plugins are arguably useful to Rosegarden users, but audio plugins are pretty irrelevant except in connection with synth plugins. Nobody uses the audio features. I would have tried if I had been able to get my audio rack to work with Linux, but I would have ended up having to use something more robust myself. Rosegarden is missing a lot of functionality, and the Linux audio community is totally dominated by Ardour, so even if we built it, nobody would use it. If we were doing Rosegarden from scratch, there would just be no point in including audio features at all. So I come down as kind of meh on the whole thing. It would be neat to play with if it doesn't require massive investment of effort on your part, but the reality is you're probably going to see really limited returns from the community. If you build it, they might come, or they might just yawn. -- D. Michael McIntyre ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?
On 12/03/20 04:43, Ted Felix wrote: Just wondering why folks want LV2 support. Not that I'll ever get to it, but some justification will help focus the effort. Thanks. Quick answer would be: upgrade DSSI/LADSPA support as LV2 is now the 'de facto' plugin standard on linux (and for most FLOSS plugins). But, do we still want to pursue plugin support? Longer and somewhat over-reaching answer(s). So there's another angle: making Rosegarden 'self-contained'. Personally I'm quite happy with set-ups like the one Will describes with Yoshimi, essentially Rosegarden as a 'pure' sequencer connected (via alsa-midi) to other stuff. On the other hand there _are_ use cases where users would like to be able to do all of their music production within Rosegarden and currently having just DSSI is pretty limiting. Now, as we know adding LV2 support, if ever, will not really make Rosegarden truly 'self-contained', because from the user's point of view there is still no ability or to 'render' rosegarden projects (i.e. like users can do in example in Qtractor or LMMS or Ardour). Which means if LV2 is supported but then you neet to 'record' the output we might as well just work (for example) with a host like Carla and then use that and concentrate on more sequencer features. So I think there are 2 routes: 1. Radical sequencer, linux philosophy approach (one tool for one task, in this case sequencing): - Ditch or put in low priority any plugin support - Concentrate on sequencer-related bugs, features, improvements etc. - Improve documentation / tutorials on how to use this approach at best 2. The 'DAW' approach: - Rendering support (learn how Qtractor does it as it also is alsa-midi only and using Qt to be practical) - LV2 support (at least, maybe even Linux VST) - Add more DAW (i.e. audio features) Finally, I had the (probably wrong, but someone correct me / amend this) assumption that 1. and 2. could somewhat be reconciled by adding jack-midi support. Why? I thought if we had jack-midi we could effectively use jack freewheel to 'render' quickly (that's what ardour does internally): turns out this might not be as easy. Lorenzo. ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?
On 3/12/20 3:25 AM, Will Godfrey wrote: People want it so that they can use various effects and instrument plugins, some of which don't have stand-alone versions. Thanks, Will. BTW, have you been working with the latest svn? Some recent changes might affect you. Hopefully you have time to run it through the wringer. Ted. ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] LV2... Why?
On Wed, 11 Mar 2020 23:43:47 -0400 Ted Felix wrote: > Just wondering why folks want LV2 support. Not that I'll ever get to >it, but some justification will help focus the effort. Thanks. > >Ted. People want it so that they can use various effects and instrument plugins, some of which don't have stand-alone versions. I've no interest in it myself however. As far as I'm concerned, with it's really proscriptive, yet poorly standardised API it's very much a case of the tail wagging the dog :( For some use-cases having jack MIDI capability would be of more value - although I don't need that myself. My combination of Rosegarden plus Yoshimi does almost everything I want. Just occasionally I'll add in Qsynth or Hydrogen. HTH. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user