Re: [silk] Help!--linguistic brain-tapping needed, please
Dibyo [22/05/12 14:43 +0800]: How true is that? I can't tell them apart, but I'm very far from being the person to be asked. Well .. there are some words you can tell ARE from urdu nazar for sight ishq for love mubarak ho instead of badhaai ho for congratulations etc. Words from 50s and 60s hindi film music have a heavy urdu flavor for example.
Re: [silk] Help!--linguistic brain-tapping needed, please
Cheeni, you did read what I wrote about urdu originally evolving as a lingua franca for Mughal troops of various ethnicities (arab, turk, farsi, afghan, uzbek, tajik etc + various indian ethnic groups)? In fact it was originally called lashkari (army speech) for that reason .. Poetry in urdu is a bit late in evolving, as you point out - because most poets considered it street argot, whereas the courtly language was Persian and earlier, turki. -Original Message- From: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net [mailto:silklist- bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net] On Behalf Of Srini RamaKrishnan Sent: 22 May 2012 12:40 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] Help!--linguistic brain-tapping needed, please On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 7:04 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: The hindi dialects in several places (cities such as hyderabad and lucknow) that have a largely mixed population are heavily urdu flavored compared to the hindi spoken in some other places, so there's a geographic / locational element as well. Urdu didn't evolve as a single language, Urdu is the language that came out of the later mixed blood Mughals in India who could no longer entirely or conveniently trace their tongue back to Persia or Turkey or thereabouts. The court affairs of the Mughal emperors till the last one, Bahadur Shah Zafar were conducted in Persian, and Ghalib, the famous poet refused to write couplets in Urdu initially, deeming it too lower class since he drew parental lineage from Genghis Khan and Tamur Lane (as did Babur, and every chest thumping Mughal - no one wants to be descended from any lesser source it seems). However he did indeed compose Urdu couplets since he also loved the language on merit, beautiful ones too, but when a friend from Lucknow urged him to recite them in Lucknow he refused on the grounds that Lucknowis will never understand the Urdu of the streets of Delhi.
Re: [silk] India's dangerous capitalism
Deepak Shenoy [22/05/12 07:45 +0530]: ass. I would still say Roy and Sainath are just shrill, and just too blinkered. They also often ignore (or maliciously omit?) statistics that work against their theories, which is just as bad as the government. suppresio veri suggestio falsi take your pick. People who engage in propaganda like to do both, whichever wing of the political spectrum they come from Whether it is the eff etc types, or the tea partiers, or rai / p sainath types versus the usual suspect hindutva ideologues .. rebellion, a struggle for freedom etc. That brings in a lot more google results, but it doesn't prove that history was written by the poor :) Agree.
Re: [silk] Help!--linguistic brain-tapping needed, please
Chew Lin Kay [22/05/12 12:16 +0800]: In brief, that phrase is used to separate it from Urdu. Is there a linguistic/political/geographical/whatever reason why it's not just called Hindi or Urdu? religious urdu derived from languages such as arabic, farsi and turkish, and was a sort of lingua franca for the mughal armies that came to India, and included people of various islamic ethnicities (those as well as uzbeks, tajiqs, pashtuns etc), as well as people drawn from the local population. It is written in arabic script, but the words are, generally, widely used in colloquial forms of hindi. The hindi dialects in several places (cities such as hyderabad and lucknow) that have a largely mixed population are heavily urdu flavored compared to the hindi spoken in some other places, so there's a geographic / locational element as well. A hindu religious right winger or in some much rarer cases a linguistic purist will deliberately refrain from using urdu words when he speaks hindi, and consciously use synonyms for those words that have a sanskrit etymology Similarly, narendra modi makes it a point not to use any arabic / urdu derived words when he speaks gujrati, for much the same reason If you want a (probably fictitious) analogy closer to home, think of an umno / pas islamic + malay nationalist type who will deliberately avoid speaking any version of bahasa that has chinese or tamil words in it [though the very word bahasa is derived from bhasha, the hindi / sanskrit word for language..] srs
Re: [silk] On Saverin (was: Re: India's dangerous capitalism)
John Sundman [22/05/12 00:17 -0400]: capital, but I do confess that Saverin's protestations (Who, me?) remind me of the fellow who killed his mother and father and then begged for leniency from the court on the grounds that he was an orphan. the classic definition of chutzpah - but you're quite right
Re: [silk] India's dangerous capitalism
Probably the best sort of response is one that deconstructs her arguments and makes them look foolish You know, the way sokal etc debunked science studies What can be used to debunk baudrillard and derrida can be quite effectively used here --Original Message-- From: Venky Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net To: silklist@lists.hserus.net ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] India's dangerous capitalism Sent: May 18, 2012 02:50 On Wednesday 16 May 2012 at 11:25 PM, Srini RamaKrishnan wrote: I would recommend reading this along with this 40 minute interview with Sainath http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5xNyomuf6Y http://dawn.com/2012/03/18/capitalism-a-ghost-story-2/ Capitalism: A Ghost Story Arundhati Roy | 18th March, 2012 Is it a house or a home? A temple to the new India, or a warehouse for its ghosts? Ever since Antilla arrived on Altamount Road in Mumbai, exuding mystery and quiet menace, things have not been the same. “Here we are,” the friend who took me there said “Pay your respects to our new Ruler.” Couldn't get through this. But I did go through Aakar Patel's response to it: http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?280609 Venky. -- srs (blackberry)
Re: [silk] India's dangerous capitalism
Saw that one, fantastic article. -Original Message- From: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net [mailto:silklist- bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net] On Behalf Of Sruthi Krishnan Sent: 18 May 2012 10:30 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] India's dangerous capitalism http://www.firstpost.com/living/reading-arundhati-roy-the-high-price-of- toxic-rage-251377.html What to me seemed like a sensible response to Roy's essay. Sruthi
Re: [silk] Of paper tigers and tigers on paper
Vinayak, I did say for larger bills didn't I? :). My dad's been doing security printing since the 80s so I've picked up some trivia along the way. That is, besides inflation, another reason why small currency is going out of circulation -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Vinayak Hegde vinay...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 10:02:26 To: silklist@lists.hserus.netsilklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] Of paper tigers and tigers on paper On Tuesday, January 24, 2012, Vinayak Hegde wrote: On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 11:05 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net javascript:; wrote: Udhay Shankar N [23/01/12 22:37 +0530]: On 23-Jan-12 9:53 PM, ss wrote: Once you oursource a thing like making curreny then you can only writhe and kick about when it gets faked. The hidden assumption in this statement is that it is feasible to get the same anti-forgery features done here at a comparable cost. Udhay, for larger bills (such as the 10 rupee and above currently in circulation), the face value of the bill is going to be far more than its printing and distribution costs. It wont cost 500 rupees to print a 100 rupee bill Well only partly true. Currency can sometimes be cost more to make than face value. Case in point the lincoln penny costs 1.7 cents to make when the face value is 1 cent. http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/02/12/new-penny-lincoln-love-helps-keep-waste-alive/ One guy even built his business model on monetising this differential cost. http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/03/31/080331fa_fact_owen More links: http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2008/05/the-lincoln-cen.html I have lately been fascinated that countries have been printing currency on plastic. I have few of those in my collection. Nothing tells about how high inflation is (the govt manipulated index notwithstanding) than how cheap is the metal that goes into making the coins. Case in point Look at how the 1 Rupee / 2 Rupees / 5 rupees coins have evolved. The metal has become cheaper and the coins have become smaller. 25/50paise coins have gone out of circulation. -- Vinayak Canada is getting rid of the penny finally. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-04/canada-stops-making-cents-as-flaherty-lets-penny-drop.html -- Vinayak
Re: [silk] Aleph Books... and David Davidar
He left penguin because of sexual harassment allegations, but his pen is under far better control than his penis is. This should be interesting. From: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net [mailto:silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net] On Behalf Of Sriram ET. Sent: 02 May 2012 16:40 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: [silk] Aleph Books... and David Davidar http://ibnlive.in.com/news/david-davidar-aleph-books-will-be-competitively- priced/253579-55.html http://ibnlive.in.com/news/david-davidar-aleph-books-will-be-competitively-p riced/253579-55.html excerpt Q. A lot of Indian publishing's growth is coming in at the lower end of the market. You're aiming at a more sophisticated reader. How will you make sure that Aleph's books reach them and appeal to them? Again, Aleph's ambitions have been very carefully thought through. In our view there are many areas in the Indian writing and trade publishing scene that have not been exploited in any significant way. For example, while we have world class novelists we have too few great books of history, science, politics, sociology, travel, narrative non-fiction and biography to name just some of the areas that we are looking to target. In these categories you might have books that are first rate in terms of scholarship, but as these are generally aimed at academics they are largely unreadable where the lay reader is concerned. Books that are available to general readers are sometimes readable, but are singularly lacking in depth or nuance. So, we see a great deal of opportunity in terms of books that we can publish. What we intend to do is actively commission writers to produce great books in some of these subject areas. /excerpt Should we, er., start saving up? What's your view on the venture, and the man?
Re: [silk] English expressions that irritate me
Yes - but a lot of the words bandied around in this thread are from either finance or IT architecture, where they do have specific meanings and a consistent usage I won't deny that jargon can get overused by people who don't quite get what the words actually mean --Original Message-- From: Biju Chacko Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net To: silklist@lists.hserus.net ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] English expressions that irritate me Sent: Apr 24, 2012 11:34 On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: Let us put it this way. There are several terms being dismissed as pretentious expressions in this thread, that actually have specific meanings attached to them, and these meanings are used consistently I think it's pretentious to use a big or rarely used word when a commonly one would do just as well. In specific contexts, a technical discussion for example, precision and conciseness may require the use of complicated jargon. That would not be objectionable, IMHO. -- b -- srs (blackberry)
Re: [silk] English expressions that irritate me
Patina is the film of well .. age that builds up on things like very old marble or furniture. It is as old as the objects it is usually used to describe. From: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net [mailto:silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net] On Behalf Of Venkat Mangudi - Silk Sent: 23 April 2012 21:19 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] English expressions that irritate me On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 8:49 PM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote: 2. deconstruct 3. world class This is seen in most IT presentations. :) 4. patina I don't know what it means. So it is a moo point. :) --Venkat
Re: [silk] Is this advertisement a fact?
Udhay Shankar N [24/04/12 07:17 +0530]: This one make similar points, but is much funnier (if anyone knows Suchi and wants to invite her to silk, feel free) http://www.himalmag.com/component/content/article/5047-why-fuss-fuss-about-mack-up-creams.html She's consciously channeling nissim ezekiel who did this in gujju english poems a few decades back
Re: [silk] Is this advertisement a fact?
And yes, I was right. On other hand, see my cousins Sarala and Tarala. http://wonderingminstrels.blogspot.in/2000/10/professor-nissim-ezekiel.html [...] Every family must have black sheep. Sarala and Tarala are married, Their husbands are very nice boys. Suresh Ramasubramanian [23/04/12 19:23 -0700]: Udhay Shankar N [24/04/12 07:17 +0530]: This one make similar points, but is much funnier (if anyone knows Suchi and wants to invite her to silk, feel free) http://www.himalmag.com/component/content/article/5047-why-fuss-fuss-about-mack-up-creams.html She's consciously channeling nissim ezekiel who did this in gujju english poems a few decades back
Re: [silk] English expressions that irritate me
Let us put it this way. There are several terms being dismissed as pretentious expressions in this thread, that actually have specific meanings attached to them, and these meanings are used consistently -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Xxxrum xxx...@yahoo.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 10:29:06 To: silklist@lists.hserus.netsilklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] English expressions that irritate me And I hate the word ringfence as in the revenues from the new taxes will be ringfenced for the Nrega scheme or somesuch.. Source:planning commission of India press release.. 'Naresh' Narasimhan Sent from my Phone On 23-Apr-2012, at 10:02 PM, Jon Cox j...@experiments.com wrote: Venkat, I'll second that vote for innovate. The use of the word impact in place of effect is also extremely annoying. -Jon * Venkat Mangudi - Silk (s...@venkatmangudi.com) [120423 09:27]: On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 9:49 PM, John Sundman j...@wetmachine.com wrote: If we're going to really work on this compilation, I think we need to think outside the box and push the envelope. We also need to optimize our portfolio by transforming and innovating as well as injecting a new level of thinking to ideate this process. phew. The stench is unbearable now. More because I visited a website of a famous IT major and in the about section I saw this. If I were not sitting on the ground, I would have fallen on my perch. We deliver measurable business value in 3 ways: *Transform* We can transform the fundamental shape of your business PL. Regardless of which team you engage with, we have a best-practice process for delivering value. We call it IMPACT ? to ensure a clear line of sight from process change to bottom-line impact, ensuring that you receive the business value you were promised. *Optimize* Beyond transformation and innovation, it boils down to execution - delivering on time, on budget and on value. We can optimize your core operations to drive best-in-class efficiency and help fund the transformation and innovation. *Innovate* We can inject a level of product and service innovation into your business to create new revenue opportunities through collaboration and co-creation. We keep abreast of the latest technology and how it applies to your business issues. What you get from us is best-of-breed solutions. The foundation of our innovation capability is our core lab network ?x Labs ? and the new thinking that our team of over 600 researchers brings to the table.
Re: [silk] The Bhansali Stork
Vinit Bhansali [18/04/12 11:16 +0530]: Sharing some interesting news based on the SilkMeet from the 13th. For people who were there and wondering why Surabhi disappeared halfway through the evening ... She had just gone into labour! my wife (who gave birth in feb this year) is standing here by me, reading this and shaking her head in surprise (?)
Re: [silk] The Bhansali Stork
Aniruddh. That's my son's name. I'd have thought it'd be tough to make a pun out of that but then I managed to read I.Allan Sealy's Hero, A Fable Something about a south indian hero turned politician called Hero, with a secretary called Zero, a heroine U.D.Cologne, vamp Flora Fountain and a villain called Nero Nero was apparently born because his father forgot to use a condom, so he was named Anirodh - Without a Nirodh [1] [1] for non indian types - the only brand of condom available in India till say the 80s, made by a public sector unit so of doubtful quality etc. srs From: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net [mailto:silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net] On Behalf Of Vinit Bhansali Sent: 18 April 2012 15:45 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] The Bhansali Stork On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Deepa Mohan apeedna...@gmail.com wrote: VIR delighted to know of the arRiVal, Win-It! Obviously, your son is going into law and take silk. Face-palm. And warning to future parents, try very very hard to get a name for your baby that gives Deepa lesser fodder for her awesome puns!!! You will fail miserably, I assure you.
Re: [silk] India: global mobility
Let us put it this way. Highly educated is often as high an illegal immigration risk as a mallu plumber or surd taxi driver Many other countries allow visa free entry or transit for people with indian passports and valid aussie, us, uk, schengen etc first world visas. Singapore for example. And there are actually countries where you can get visas on arrival - thailand etc -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 16:46:47 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: [silk] India: global mobility Traveling anywhere today on an Indian passport is guaranteed to be exciting - navigating visa appointments, embassy interviews, credit worthiness tests and other required hurdles will keep anyone from boredom. The reluctance of countries rich and poor, large and small to open their doors to Indians is quite understandable. The numbers are simply against India; with 1.2 billion people when an Indian is let into one's country it's hard to be sure who exactly is being let in. Is it someone with a college education and a stable income living in the cities, or is it one of the vast majority of the wretchedly poor. The population of Uttar Pradesh, sadly one of the least literate and poorer Indian states is larger than Brazil; making it the fifth most populous country in the world if it were an independent nation. Or for that matter Bihar would be in the poorest 10% of countries if it were an independent nation and there's more such examples to add to what will surely be an unflattering list. [0] Nevertheless take Turkey, it lets in anyone on an Indian passport without a pre-issued visa as long as the passport carries a valid Schengen or US visa. As an aside, while this sounds great, it is not so simple in practice. I did get my visa on arrival at the airport but only after standing in 4 different lines and being interrogated by a bored teenage police officer fingering his gun all the time. The list of countries that Turkey will grant visas on arrival is rather large - it produces quick money at $20 per head and no doubt helps the economy immensely. Economics is at one level about the optimal allocation of capital, resources and people for the maximization of productivity. Global capital markets and free trade agreements have made the free movement of the first two possible at the snap of a finger, but people remain the least fluid component in global economics. Moving an entire factory floor to China is still reasonably efficient since people themselves aren't being moved, but when it comes to qualified professionals global corporations and talented individuals need to spend lots of time on complicated visa regulations and procedures before a large corporate head quarters with a global workforce can be assembled. For a country which counts people as its largest bankable asset India should see a lot of economic merit in enabling the free global movement of its talented people. Assuming there is a special class of Indian passport [1], one where the recipient is vetted to be of first or second world standards in education, income, and other desirables, and comes with pre-negotiated visa waivers with most countries - it would enable a more mobile class of Indian who can travel and be employed in other countries, but be off the host country's books in terms of visas and permanent residencies. Given the incentive to convert nationality or residency is greatly reduced for this new mobile Indian it helps India retain its talent too. In a country facing a lot of criticism for being unable to allow global trade in as rapidly as the world would like (c.f. Walmart's entry into India) and generally facing economic stagnation (http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/india-s-year-of-living-stagnantly) (http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2012/03/15/india-democratic-tempest-shashi-tharoor/) it wouldn't be such a bad idea to advance in the global economic race with what is merely a regulatory and diplomatic undertaking. Thoughts? [0] Interestingly Brazil has some of the same baggage of a vast poor underbelly as India; but it fares vastly better on the visa waiver thing. There's greater segregation of the population there of course, and some racism, but still an interesting data point. [1] The ECNR/ECR stamp regime did something similar but to no productive end
Re: [silk] India: global mobility
Riyadh is possibly the worst airport in the middle east - so it is possibly a very good thing you wore that suit --Original Message-- From: Ramakrishnan Sundaram Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net To: silklist@lists.hserus.net ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] India: global mobility Sent: Apr 18, 2012 21:04 On 18 April 2012 20:56, salil tripathi sali...@gmail.com wrote: system. If you wear suits, have credit cards, and speak english and work for mncs, one queue; if you look like a construction worker, go to the back of the line. I used to live in the UAE, and had to travel often to Saudi Arabia. The first time I did so, colleagues told me to wear a suit on the plane. I found out why when we landed at Riyadh. Guards separated incoming passengers into fast-moving queues for all whites and others in suits; the rest were corralled into queues of a hundred or more. So, Salil. your fears have long been true. Ram -- srs (blackberry)
Re: [silk] India: global mobility
The ecnr regime is on Kids whose parents are graduates, both have passports etc are eligible for ecnr But if you don't need it it isn't stamped on your passport, only an ecr is stamped -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: thew...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 04:39:50 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] India: global mobility I'd applied for a passport when I was in school, and didn't have an ECNR stamp, since I wasn't a degree holder at the time. I'd traveled on my passport before, so I got a rude shock when I wasn't allowed to go to the Philippines in 2004. Is the ECNR regime still on? And does it apply even for 3 year old kids traveling with ECNR certified parents? Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone -Original Message- From: salil tripathi sali...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+thewall=gmail@lists.hserus.net Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 15:29:47 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] India: global mobility And ec(n)r prevented school-drop-out artists from travelling, since if you hadn't finished hi school, assumption was that sarkar maibaap would be needed to look after you and decide if you were eligible to travel abroad. Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device -Original Message- From: Thaths tha...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+salil61=googlemail@lists.hserus.net Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 08:26:52 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] India: global mobility On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 7:46 AM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.comwrote: [1] The ECNR/ECR stamp regime did something similar but to no productive end The EC(N)R stamp meant something at the point of origin, not at the destination. I suspect a vast majority of the countries did not know what this chaapa on the passport meant. Thaths -- Homer: Hey, what does this job pay? Carl: Nuthin'. Homer: D'oh! Carl: Unless you're crooked. Homer: Woo-hoo! Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders
Re: [silk] India: global mobility
Yes - but check away -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: thew...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 04:58:12 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] India: global mobility Need to check my son's passport. In any case, for travel to the US, Singapore, EU, etc, are people permitted to depart India irrespective of ECNR status? Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone -Original Message- From: Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net Sender: silklist-bounces+thewall=gmail@lists.hserus.net Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 04:47:46 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] India: global mobility The ecnr regime is on Kids whose parents are graduates, both have passports etc are eligible for ecnr But if you don't need it it isn't stamped on your passport, only an ecr is stamped -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: thew...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 04:39:50 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] India: global mobility I'd applied for a passport when I was in school, and didn't have an ECNR stamp, since I wasn't a degree holder at the time. I'd traveled on my passport before, so I got a rude shock when I wasn't allowed to go to the Philippines in 2004. Is the ECNR regime still on? And does it apply even for 3 year old kids traveling with ECNR certified parents? Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone -Original Message- From: salil tripathi sali...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+thewall=gmail@lists.hserus.net Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 15:29:47 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] India: global mobility And ec(n)r prevented school-drop-out artists from travelling, since if you hadn't finished hi school, assumption was that sarkar maibaap would be needed to look after you and decide if you were eligible to travel abroad. Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device -Original Message- From: Thaths tha...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+salil61=googlemail@lists.hserus.net Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 08:26:52 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] India: global mobility On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 7:46 AM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.comwrote: [1] The ECNR/ECR stamp regime did something similar but to no productive end The EC(N)R stamp meant something at the point of origin, not at the destination. I suspect a vast majority of the countries did not know what this chaapa on the passport meant. Thaths -- Homer: Hey, what does this job pay? Carl: Nuthin'. Homer: D'oh! Carl: Unless you're crooked. Homer: Woo-hoo! Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders
Re: [silk] The Bhansali Stork
Deepa Mohan [18/04/12 09:44 +0530]: I am very happy to tell everyone that Vinit Bhansali and Surabhi Tomar found a baby boy in a bed of rose petals on Sunday, April 15. The little one, in Vinit's words, is so good-looking that we are wondering which couple have left their baby with us. Congratulations to them. And they were hosting a silklist party days before this happy event???
Re: [silk] Ford Figo (was sociolinguistic query)
Giancarlo Livraghi [16 April 2012 15:17]: The Ford Figo story is quite intriguing. Apparently the name was chosen because Figo means 'cool' in Italian. Nobody in Detroit or Chennai appears to be aware of the anatomical-sexual implications (though maybe someone is in Brazil, where this model is conservatively called Fiesta). This thread seems to say figo - the masculine - is cool while the feminine, figa is vagina, and by extension, hot, sexy etc? http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=13790
Re: [silk] Sociolinguistic query
Just cute italian word I suspect --Original Message-- From: Giancarlo Livraghi Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net To: silklist@lists.hserus.net ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] Sociolinguistic query Sent: Apr 15, 2012 17:29 At this point... I have a question. What is Figo supposed to mean in Indian-automotive English? I shall be grateful for an explanation. Giancarlo -- srs (blackberry)
Re: [silk] Sociolinguistic query
thew...@gmail.com [16 April 2012 10:42]: More references to Westerns? SRS would be thrilled. I remember hijo de puta from JT Edson and Sudden. Swearing in Mexican? Look no farther than Tuco - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29kCbliw97A srs
Re: [silk] Sociolinguistic query
Deepak Shenoy [14 April 2012 12:50]: Can people here provide examples of strong curse/swear words in any language (i.e, these mean something beyond just punctuation or verbal tics) that DO NOT involve female relatives? Extra bonus point if they also DO NOT involve sexual acts of varying degrees of improbability. A common one in Konkani pronounced muh-dya means dead body. Many of the konkani ones I know are benign - meaning mad fellow, your head has dried up, burnt fellow etc. Well well .. I sort of suspected someone would have written a paper on this. http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/rev/8/2/113/ Citation Database: PsycARTICLES [ Journal Article ] The psychology of profanity. Patrick, G. T. W. Psychological Review, Vol 8(2), Mar 1901, 113-127. doi: 10.1037/h0074772 Abstract Discusses the use of profane words with reference to the origin of language and the relation between emotion and expression. Two kinds of swearing, assertive and ejaculatory; and 7 classes of profane swearing are enumerated. In regard to a theory of profanity, it is an expression of emotion, especially of anger. However, the James-Lange and the Sutherland theories show that it is to be understood by the genetic method. By a process of selection, profanity chooses those forms of phonation best adapted to shock the opponent. Originally used in combat, at present it is used when well-being of the individual is threatened. It does not generate emotion but allays it. Profanity provides catharsis, helping one cope during intolerable periods of inner conflict, repression and readjustment. It is considered immoral due to the emphasis on inhibition and repression, and the religious connection between the sacred and the profane. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2010 APA, all rights reserved)
Re: [silk] Sociolinguistic query
Vinit Bhansali wrote: I read only Lousi L'amour. Are you suggesting I should try the Longarm books with the current context of finding good swear words? No. As excellent westerns in their own right. Let me send you one or two.
Re: [silk] Sociolinguistic query
well, the hindi 'chutiya' is also used more in the sense of idiot rather than fucker .. --srs (iPad) On 14-Apr-2012, at 17:29, Shrabonti Bagchi shrabont...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote: Picking up on one of the conversational threads from yesterday's meetup: Can people here provide examples of strong curse/swear words in any language (i.e, these mean something beyond just punctuation or verbal tics) that DO NOT involve female relatives? Extra bonus point if they also DO NOT involve sexual acts of varying degrees of improbability. The Bengali 'bokachoda' -- literally, 'dumb fuck'? No female relatives, and the sexual word does not refer to the sexual act itself, and is used in fact in much the same way as 'fuck' is used so creatively in English.
Re: [silk] Sociolinguistic query
e and oe two aussie blokes calling each other bastard and poofter over their next tinny of castlemaine -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 15:19:25 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] Sociolinguistic query On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: Well well .. I sort of suspected someone would have written a paper on this. http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/rev/8/2/113/ Citation Database: PsycARTICLES [ Journal Article ] The psychology of profanity. Profanity when it is not cathartic is a weapon isn't it? The idea is to shock and wound the opponent. The subject of the profanity therefore is anything that the opponent values which can be degraded. What profanity gets used though depends on context, even if the aggravation levels are the same across contexts. When it is two soldiers exchanging abuses across trenches, it is usually about nationality. When it is neighbors cursing each other, kids, spouses and pets seem to be invoked. Kids in a playground prefer unflattering comparisons to body parts, mothers and scatology. In each context the perceived identities of the parties is different, and this chooses the language. Now, men historically seem to have fought more often than women, so the body of non-physical violence is mostly equipped with curses that are effective against men. The profusion of unflattering references to women in curses is a natural outcome of this. Most men after all place their identity in their women, and it's an excellent object of attack. Cheeni
Re: [silk] Sociolinguistic query
You've been away from hyderabad and earthier variants of hindi too long Gaandu is the asshole giver (bottom in homosexual sex) term of abuse Chut is cunt and chod is fuck so chutiya, madarchod, behenchod (motherfucker, sister fucker) respectively -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Mahesh Murthy mahesh.mur...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 20:50:17 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] Sociolinguistic query Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: well, the hindi 'chutiya' is also used more in the sense of idiot rather than fucker .. 'Chutiya' apparently derives from 'chut diya' i.e. 'asshole giver'. So it's probably more about being a 'fucked one' than being a 'fucker'. Forgive my French. :)
Re: [silk] Sociolinguistic query
Some languages like punjabi are just made to swear in .. -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Mahesh Murthy mahesh.mur...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 21:01:28 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] Sociolinguistic query On a lateral note, what's the worst / most effective invective you've ever heard delivered? My submission in this category was this gem in Punjabi which went something like Teri maa di pair di vich khatiya bichchaoon, us pe teri behen chodoon Roughly translated, for the non-Punjabi adept among us, it goes I'll shove a cot between your mother's legs, and on it fuck your sister. The unfortunate recipient of this rant was rendered completely speechless, unable to come up with a suitable retort. While the rest of us onlookers were quite literally on the floor laughing. Indelible impression, that was.
Re: [silk] Sociolinguistic query
the scatological ones? asshole, shithead etc --srs (iPad) On 14-Apr-2012, at 10:15, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote: Picking up on one of the conversational threads from yesterday's meetup: Can people here provide examples of strong curse/swear words in any language (i.e, these mean something beyond just punctuation or verbal tics) that DO NOT involve female relatives? Extra bonus point if they also DO NOT involve sexual acts of varying degrees of improbability. Udhay -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
Re: [silk] Sociolinguistic query
That's the third variety - imputation of cowardice or lack of manliness The fourth variety is racial ephitets -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Vinit Bhansali vi...@bhansalimail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 11:15:18 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] Sociolinguistic query Been reading to many westerns. Yellow bellied skunk? I think it's lost it's menacing tone over the last century. Pity! But back to the future used various versions of it, including the (in_famous you chicken? On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.netwrote: the scatological ones? asshole, shithead etc --srs (iPad) On 14-Apr-2012, at 10:15, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote: Picking up on one of the conversational threads from yesterday's meetup: Can people here provide examples of strong curse/swear words in any language (i.e, these mean something beyond just punctuation or verbal tics) that DO NOT involve female relatives? Extra bonus point if they also DO NOT involve sexual acts of varying degrees of improbability. Udhay -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
Re: [silk] Sociolinguistic query
Which westerns btw? The older ones (sudden etc) had lots of that, not so much the newer ones And try a lot of the earlier (#250 and before) tabor evans longarm books -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Vinit Bhansali vi...@bhansalimail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 11:15:18 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] Sociolinguistic query Been reading to many westerns. Yellow bellied skunk? I think it's lost it's menacing tone over the last century. Pity! But back to the future used various versions of it, including the (in_famous you chicken? On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.netwrote: the scatological ones? asshole, shithead etc --srs (iPad) On 14-Apr-2012, at 10:15, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote: Picking up on one of the conversational threads from yesterday's meetup: Can people here provide examples of strong curse/swear words in any language (i.e, these mean something beyond just punctuation or verbal tics) that DO NOT involve female relatives? Extra bonus point if they also DO NOT involve sexual acts of varying degrees of improbability. Udhay -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
Re: [silk] Sociolinguistic query
Well - that classes as religious. Dogs and pigs aren't really admired by semitic religions like judaism and islam Cue nazis in war comics calling people schweinhund!! -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Tim Bray tb...@textuality.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 22:51:10 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] Sociolinguistic query It’s been a while since I spoke much Arabic, but I recall, along with the usual family/sex imprecations, lots of dog-related imprecations. Just plain dog! also ibn-kalb and some other family relationships but not specifically female. In good old English, my favorite non-sexual non-gender-specific nasty has long been “asswipe”. Just in the last 10 years or so we’ve gained “asshat” which I think also very good. -T On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 10:45 PM, Vinit Bhansali vi...@bhansalimail.com wrote: Been reading to many westerns. Yellow bellied skunk? I think it's lost it's menacing tone over the last century. Pity! But back to the future used various versions of it, including the (in_famous you chicken? On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: the scatological ones? asshole, shithead etc --srs (iPad) On 14-Apr-2012, at 10:15, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote: Picking up on one of the conversational threads from yesterday's meetup: Can people here provide examples of strong curse/swear words in any language (i.e, these mean something beyond just punctuation or verbal tics) that DO NOT involve female relatives? Extra bonus point if they also DO NOT involve sexual acts of varying degrees of improbability. Udhay -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
Re: [silk] Bangalore silkmeet 13 Apr?
I mostly see you in comments on arun simha's wall :) Welcome. -Original Message- From: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net [mailto:silklist- bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net] On Behalf Of Shrabonti Bagchi Sent: 12 April 2012 13:38 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] Bangalore silkmeet 13 Apr? Hello Silklist folks, Your good moderator Udhay has approved my entry into this list, and I hope to have many good conversations here.
Re: [silk] a picture for you
did the lion tell you all that? --srs (iPad) On 11-Apr-2012, at 20:56, Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com wrote: What silk most probably needs is a craigslist / freecycle type forum (or mailing list). People coming over from stateside to whom you can ship kindle fires, apartments to rent, old computer gear you're replacing free to a good home etc Sometimes you can't do some of the above! Gir, 050412. Cheers, Deepa. IMG_2159.JPG
Re: [silk] Introduction
13 it is -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Mahesh Murthy mahesh.mur...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 11:29:12 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] Introduction I can do 13th not 14th On Apr 8, 2012 9:20 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: welcome. btw in case like lahar, people prefer a weekday we might try friday the 13th as well none of y'all turn up wearing goalie masks, please .. --srs (iPad) On 08-Apr-2012, at 8:51, Deepa Agashe daga...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, I am Deepa Agashe, evolutionary biologist/ecologist, and I just moved to Bangalore. I've been lurking on the list for a BIT (well, I looked up the first email from Udhay and it turns out that I've been here since April 2011). So, a full year after there was talk of moving to Bangalore, I'm finally here and somewhat settled. I've loved the list conversations I've managed to follow so far, and I look forward to more! Oh, and I will raise my hand to the April 14 silkmeet. Deepa
Re: [silk] Bangalore silkmeet 13 Apr?
Ha ha. This is the shortest silkmeet prep ever for me. Customer meeting all day on the 13th and a family that's sworn to lynch me if I spend the weekend in blr and miss out on vishu at home. Ok guys, I'm officially counted out now --Original Message-- From: Udhay Shankar N Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net To: silklist@lists.hserus.net ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] Bangalore silkmeet 13 Apr? Sent: Apr 8, 2012 16:53 On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Deepa Agashe daga...@gmail.com wrote: Yes. 13th is fine. Sruthi Works for me. Any suggestions on place? One option is to do Biere Club again, which worked well last time. Udhay -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com)) -- srs (blackberry)
Re: [silk] Introduction
welcome. btw in case like lahar, people prefer a weekday we might try friday the 13th as well none of y'all turn up wearing goalie masks, please .. --srs (iPad) On 08-Apr-2012, at 8:51, Deepa Agashe daga...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, I am Deepa Agashe, evolutionary biologist/ecologist, and I just moved to Bangalore. I've been lurking on the list for a BIT (well, I looked up the first email from Udhay and it turns out that I've been here since April 2011). So, a full year after there was talk of moving to Bangalore, I'm finally here and somewhat settled. I've loved the list conversations I've managed to follow so far, and I look forward to more! Oh, and I will raise my hand to the April 14 silkmeet. Deepa
Re: [silk] Listers in New York city?
Indrajit Gupta wrote: What do impoverished vegetarians do Food wagons on the street with a variety of cuisine, even indian, for those vegetarians who demand thayir saadam when they're traveling, and consider pasta vaguely non veg. Lots of salad bars, vegetarian joints etc. No shortage of them really. And if that apartment has a cooking range and she can cook, then well - you can find most anything you want to cook in more than one supermarket and indian store. srs
Re: [silk] Listers in New York city?
Thaths [02 April 2012 18:51]: http://www.happycow.net/north_america/usa/new_york/new_york_city/ We need a sadcow just for the steak joints and delis serving hot pastrami on rye sandwiches :)
Re: [silk] The facebook experiment - now on e-mail!
Deepa Mohan [03 April 2012 09:47]: Is there anything that is off-topic on this list? I like the fact that we can talk about cabbages and kings, but are personal questions, or questions addressed to one person, OT? Udhay...any sacred cows? Beyond the no ad hominem rule he has and enforces, anything goes as far as I can see. I mean I don't see how this is different from setting up dinner dates for silkmeets or asking for people who are coming over from stateside and can bring along a kindle or whatever.
Re: [silk] Fwd: Life and Love in Bangalore
In its present shape and form at any rate There have been previous taxes on income and wealth, around the world -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 12:54:45 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] Fwd: Life and Love in Bangalore On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 6:31 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: Aadisht Khanna [31/03/12 09:54 +0530]: On 29-03-2012 20:44, Srini RamaKrishnan wrote: Cheeni, do you have a citation for this, please? I was under the impression that income tax (and therefore any benefits or exemptions to it) was a twentieth century invention. 1799 in england to be specific. by Pitt the Younger eh? Kautilya’s Arthasastra (300BC) talks in detail about income tax, customs levies and trade taxes, and still earlier, the Manu Smriti also has sections on taxation of agricultural produce. Chinese emperors have for long played with income tax too. Sloth taxes were quite common too; if you didn't cultivate land under your ownership it was quite common to pay a tax for keeping it fallow. There have been other taxes on income such as tithes since ancient times In ancient times the idea of personal property was non-existent, everything belonged to the tribe. It was in later years when the size of the tribe expanded to empire sized institutions that land taxes and tithes started becoming necessary.
Re: [silk] Fwd: Life and Love in Bangalore
ss [30/03/12 09:07 +0530]: Srini there are thousands upon thousands of records. The internet is nowadays bursting with them. Many are oral but an increasing number are documented. Many are now being documented as family narratives, and some of those are I will agree with Shiv on this.
Re: [silk] Charlie Stross internet puppy tshirt
Thejaswi Udupa [30/03/12 09:45 +0530]: Here's hundred rupees that says Priest hates the Baen school of SF. Have we lived and fought in vain, and so on. Most Baen books are ordinary hackneyed pulp fiction cliches, but SET IN SPACE!![more exclamation marks] Eh dude, that's way too much of a generalization of baen. Poul Anderson CJ Cherryh L Sprague deCamp John Ringo Niven and Pournelle add those to the usual lois mcmaster bujold, keith laumer (who was genuinely readable) srs
Re: [silk] Aakar Patel's throwing Shuriken again
Srini RamaKrishnan [30/03/12 14:13 +0200]: I had a boss once who got away with the oddest behavior. He had a habit of getting impossibly drunk and then singing Britney Spears hits at the top of his voice while shirtless while standing on the dinner table every time there was a company dinner. It was not black mail bertie wooster used to get sloshed on bump supper nights and ride a bicycle naked around the quad, throw soft boiled eggs at the electric fan, steal policemen's helmets .. your boss is a mere tyro compared to that original genius.
Re: [silk] Aakar Patel's throwing Shuriken again
Ramakrishnan Sundaram [30/03/12 17:21 +0530]: Nothing exemplies this better than Aakar Patel's latest column in livemint, http://www.livemint.com/Articles/2012/03/29200444/Why-it-is-better-to-live-in-th.html He doesn't like gujjus of the modi loving racist variety too much, does he? :) Well at least we have that in common. Bring him on.
Re: [silk] Fwd: Life and Love in Bangalore
Aadisht Khanna [31/03/12 09:54 +0530]: On 29-03-2012 20:44, Srini RamaKrishnan wrote: Cheeni, do you have a citation for this, please? I was under the impression that income tax (and therefore any benefits or exemptions to it) was a twentieth century invention. 1799 in england to be specific. by Pitt the Younger There have been other taxes on income such as tithes since ancient times
[silk] Charlie Stross internet puppy tshirt
After this very epic Christopher Priest rant that udupa pointed me to elsewhere .. http://www.christopher-priest.co.uk/journal/1077/hull-0-scunthorpe-3/ Charlie Stross' twitter feed has a cute puppy display pic and there are tshirts too. https://twitter.com/#!/cstross/status/185353259169488897 Sad / funny thing is I don't quite disagree with Priest - at least because he appears to share my taste for old style SF .. Poul Anderson, Frederick Pohl, various of the older Baen authors etc, and the few bits of Stross I've skimmed through aren't as much to my taste as they probably should be. -- Suresh Ramasubramanian (ops.li...@gmail.com)
Re: [silk] Alternate DNS servers
Jon Cox [28/03/12 18:34 -0700]: By default dnscache gives you a 1M cache, which is configurable via /service/dnscache/env/CACHESIZE and even gives you tools to see how effective it is (see: http://cr.yp.to/djbdns/cachesize.html ). It is very nice, useful - except that djb has weird and wonderful ideas about dns, it needs a lot of patching (and idiosyncratically written patches at that) for v6 etc etc. You might try this - Package: pdns-recursor Priority: extra Section: net Installed-Size: 1344 Maintainer: Matthijs Mohlmann matth...@cacholong.nl Architecture: i386 Version: 3.2-4 Replaces: pdns Depends: libc6 (= 2.3.6-6~), libgcc1 (= 1:4.1.1), liblua5.1-0, libstdc++6 (= 4.4.0), lsb-base (= 3.0-6), adduser Recommends: pdns-doc Filename: pool/main/p/pdns-recursor/pdns-recursor_3.2-4_i386.deb Size: 548202 MD5sum: 076639760dd9753a711774f30cdc8fdc SHA1: 3ab18085e7d3b6130996276226306ab47ab569c5 SHA256: 9e0121bbbf513b457457d7c58220841694cf0f8e5d2ab0040df1cd453a215108 Description: PowerDNS recursor PowerDNS is a versatile nameserver which supports a large number of different backends ranging from simple zonefiles to relational databases and load balancing/failover algorithms. PowerDNS tries to emphasize speed and security. . This is the recursive nameserver that goes out to the internet and resolve queries about other domains. Tag: interface::daemon, network::server, network::service, protocol::dns, role::program
Re: [silk] Fwd: Life and Love in Bangalore
Biju Chacko [27/03/12 19:22 +0530]: The unspoken assumption in both this thread and the 40-hour week one that anyone who sacrifices family or personal time for work is a bad parent is, quite frankly, elitist crap. Sexist too, because it's the mothers who face the brunt of criticism. agree 100%. With 2 kids, 57k a month in a house loan to pay off, etc etc I'm sort of glad both sets of parents, mine and my wife's, live close enough to help take care of the kids. and as for 40 hours - whoever wrote that bull hasn't had to work with teams that are based half in the USA and half in hong kong, I see .. nor has he had to really work for a living. As in - if the tasks he has on his plate fill 40 hours a week no more, no less, he's really lucky, or maybe partially employed with a decent private income from somewhere that lets him work 40 hours a week.
Re: [silk] Fwd: Life and Love in Bangalore
We've kind of had to modify our habits a lot Safe options like parks, the beach, temples etc. And movies if any, only of the happy feet, alvin and the chipmunks etc variety -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Lahar Appaiah thew...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 23:48:23 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] Fwd: Life and Love in Bangalore This is not as easy as it sounds. Movies and plays are out of the question, since the kid can't be trusted to keep quiet. Pubs are completely out- noise, smoke, Lady Gaga, etc. In addition, kids need to sleep early, so you can't stay out too late. On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 8:11 PM, ashok _ listmans...@gmail.com wrote: I dont get the night care part. can't they go out with their kids in the evening ... why leave them at home ?
Re: [silk] Fwd: Life and Love in Bangalore
Articulateness versus rhetoric with loaded terminology is always an interesting distinction People in a comfort zone (stay at home spouse, extended family etc available to take care of the kid) aren't the best qualified to comment on this issue Deliberate neglect or abuse, which can happen in either situation, usually gets countered one of two ways - community, which kind of gets lost in a much more anonymous society, or government mandated childcare - which isn't sufficiently developed in India -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 05:55:40 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net; Saritha Raisarirai...@yahoo.com Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] Fwd: Life and Love in Bangalore On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 5:01 AM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 6:50 PM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote: The former conforms to dharma, the latter is adharma. India went through an even greater transition in the last 70 some independent years, second only to the Chinese cultural revolution, and yet it's gone unnoticed. Like the silent killer of the night, inconspicuous yet deadly. Cheeni...that was so impressive. I had not thought of it as a cultural revolution, and that is, of course, what it has been. But, Cheeni, you criticise Shiv for terming it dharma vs adharmabut when you call it a silent killer of the night (I remembered Bhopal when I read that)...you too, take a judgemental stance. I cannot believe that the old system was always good; the concept of family before self, of duty before self, did, in my opinion, lead to a lot of bad practices, and deep unhappiness. This was especially so when a person did not believe implicitly in this concept. For better or worse (obviously, you two feel it was for worse), the change has come to stay. We are now cocooned in individuality; but yet, I feel that we are quite connected to our families and to our friends. The question of who will care for the children has always been a complex one, and continues to be so. I, for one, would rather have parents drop off their children at a night care, even if they are partying, than either drag them to unsuitable places, or stay at home with them and vent their frustration on them. I have seen this happen so often in the old family system. A constant refrain of I gave up a, b, c, for you, be grateful to me is like the Chinese water torturea constant drip, drip, drip of mental tyranny. What is old is familiar, but for that reason, it cannot be held to be universally good. We just have to accept that many parents today cannot quit their jobs and be with *their* parents; they have to lead a lifestyle different from their parents' and they have to accept solutions about child care, that are different. Hmm...I wish I was as articulate as Cheeni or Shiv is...I'm just trying to say, we have to accept the new realities and not hanker after the old, seeing them through the rose-tinted glasses of selective memory and hallowed traditions. Deepa.
Re: [silk] Fwd: Life and Love in Bangalore
We divide the labor a bit. I do all I can that is possible from a laptop (doing our taxes, paying bills ...) and some other stuff occasionally. She does most of the hard stuff - supervising our maidservant etc Besides our collective careers that is -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Radhika, Y. radhik...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 20:09:47 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] Fwd: Life and Love in Bangalore interest concept: women of leisure. in my experience i have only found men to be leisurely.
Re: [silk] Anyone who works 40-hour weeks?
Physically well rounded - certainly -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 20:34:26 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] Anyone who works 40-hour weeks? On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 8:13 PM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com wrote: I see pillars of individual identity like a stool with legs. The more legs you have, the more stable the stool is. If you invest all your identity into only one pillar, then what happens when it breaks away is the stool loses balance. I concur, but of course you knew that, as this is one of the topics that has recurred many many times over the course of many many beers over the years. :) IOW, a well rounded personality is a (physically and psychologically) healthy one. There is a reason why cliches become cliches... I wonder what Thaths has to add to this. Udhay -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
Re: [silk] Chanakya's teachings
Srini RamaKrishnan [13/03/12 11:39 +0100]: On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Aanjhan Ranganathan aanj...@gmail.com wrote: Hi All, Do you folks have any recommendation for books on Chanakya's [1] teachings and philosophies? What do you hope to learn from C or even from Machiavelli's Prince? I hear there's a rather slow and dusty writer called Ayn Rand whose writing seems equally ethically challenged. funnily enough, the prince was a lesson in how to be ethical by illustrating unethicality
Re: [silk] aqvavit
And the day a listserv figures out that x on a list prefers interleaved, y prefers top posted and z doesn't care a shit will be when alan turing will really smile up there in heaven --Original Message-- From: Eugen Leitl Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net To: silklist@lists.hserus.net ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] aqvavit Sent: Feb 25, 2012 15:32 On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 11:13:28PM +0100, Srini RamaKrishnan wrote: On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 8:44 PM, thew...@gmail.com wrote: I find bottom posting gauche and insensitive. Its difficult to read, and I really can't understand why its still relevant today. I suppose its one of those quaint vestigal remnants of an early form of netiquette? The main problem with boors is that they don't realize they're being boors, why they're being boors, and why being boors should carry a social stigma. This lack of awareness typically correlates with with poor content and hence high probability to land in the twit folder. That kind of behaviour would seem to be obviously self-defeating, but Dunning-Kruger strikes again. Bottom posting makes fewer assumptions about the kind of mail reader you are using. The day mailers can trim replies (threading info is lost by mouthbreathers anyway), cite correctly and interleave automatically will be the day the MUAs will pass the Turing test, and the Internet transcends overnight. -- srs (blackberry)
Re: [silk] Anupama Chopra: The Punjab-isation of Bollywood
Let us say, compare them to that family of hillbillies in seven brides for seven brothers, who use y'all, sonny etc, break into square dances at the drop of a hat, love to fight .. -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: John Sundman j...@wetmachine.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 09:28:01 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] Anupama Chopra: The Punjab-isation of Bollywood On Feb 25, 2012, at 2:39 AM, Chew Lin Kay wrote: Which also apparently means that all of us are exuberant, boisterously affectionate affectionate and relentlessly cheerful. That we routinely run through mustard fields (with dupattas trailing behind, of course). That our speech is peppered with assi, puttar,soni, makhna, balle balle, shava shava and (my favourite) chak de phatte. That our men are solid and that our women dutifully kep karva chauth. And that, given the slightest opportunity, all of us, including aged aunts and uncles, are delighted to break into a rousing dance number. I don't know what any of the above means, but it does sound exotic and alluring -- and an example of the kind of thing that makes being on this list fun for me. My own ancestry is Finno-Scots-Irish. (I'm American, but my mother and all my grandparents are/were immigrants.) Finns are known, by the way, for being essentially the inverse of the personality type above. Taciturn to the Nth degree. Viz: Did you hear about the Finnish man who loved his wife so much he almost told her? jrs
Re: [silk] aqvavit
Yes but how much education do you actually need to swing a sword and get whatever rudimentary amount of military tactics you'd need in those days, much before the series of 17th - 19th century wars that built a corps of professional soldiers whose officers treated war as a science to be studied, all the way from the ancient Greeks and Romans to the Crusades onwards .. And as for the just world hypothesis, it believes in the ingrained belief system of humans that'd react negatively to crimes, oppression etc. In the conquistadores' case, the focus was on earning money, and on forcibly converting various Indian tribes to Christianity. Cruelties and oppression if any were simply means to one of two ends .. you earn more money to fill your and your government's pockets, and you perform what was seen as (and declared by the pope as) your sacred duty to make Christians out of poor benighted pagans, saving them from eternal flames by torturing a guy here, executing a guy there .. srs -Original Message- From: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net [mailto:silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net] On Behalf Of Srini RamaKrishnan Sent: 24 February 2012 19:57 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] aqvavit On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 12:49 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: Cheeni found that ironic :). And for every such empire builder type who died poor, there's no shortage of his peers who started out poor but died filthy rich. I wish we could say this was about natural justice coming home to roost after all that oppression .. Indeed, this isn't about natural justice, that's why we have the just world hypothesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis Illiterate pig-farmers were the norm (Pizarro) and law school dropouts were the exception (Hernán Cortés), you can't expect much else from that bunch.
[silk] Spanish conquistadores etc RE: aqvavit
Cheeni wrote: If they were a better educated lot, they could even have declared independence and broken away from Spain and Portugal and formed a United State of South America on a democratic model, but they didn't. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartolom%C3%A9_de_las_Casas Pizzarro's brother Gonzalo did try - and defeated and killed a viceroy that the king sent to replace him. Which didn't help him any .. yes, de la Casas did advocate a whole lot of social reform which did get promulgated to some minor extent, but all this was undone after his death. That guy was amazing, centuries ahead of his time in his activism against oppression and forcible conversion of the Indians, over a period of decades. But it is quite a stretch from there to the conclusion you draw. Which is precisely what a few generations later Don Bernardo O'Higgins, Jose San Martin etc (and later, Simon Bolivar) did - forcing out a much weakened Spanish empire from Peru and starting the fairly rapid process that turned South America into a series of banana republics. Those guys were hardly pureblood Mayans, or uneducated. And I seriously doubt that educated rebels had anything very much to do with what O'Higgins and later Bolivar etc accomplished given that Spain's navy was crippled in the various wars leading up to the Napoleonic wars (from the defeat of the Spanish armada to the battle of Algeciras bay in 1801..) and quite unable to project power that far away from their home ports. In any case, O'Higgins etc succeeded with the informal aid of the Royal Navy who sent Lord Cochrane and a well armed warship over on a sort of consultancy basis, never mind that Great Britain was, back then, technically allied with Spain against Napoleon. History is rather more nuanced and subject to far more influences than can be explained with a single theory or world view - somewhat similar to my extremely irritated reaction at yet another Bruce Schneier soundbite - this time at a conference I'd have attended if my wife hadn't given birth a few days back. http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2012/02/schneier-gov-big-data-pose-bigger-net-threat-than-criminals.ars?comments=1#comments-bar Or for that matter, these dismissals of Neal Stephenson - another pet peeve http://www.mail-archive.com/silklist@lists.hserus.net/msg21842.html long stephenson passage about the gold rush Which I debunk a bit at http://www.mail-archive.com/silklist@lists.hserus.net/msg21843.html And Shiv has a go as well - about Stephenson on nukes and missiles - http://www.mail-archive.com/silklist@lists.hserus.net/msg20596.html srs
Re: [silk] Spanish conquistadores etc RE: aqvavit
Well .. you're describing sort of what happened in India in your first paragraph. You didn't quite get my point - the Napoleonic wars were a later instance of the same thing you mention - a rebellion against spain. That rebellion by Pizzarro failed. Mainly because most of his supporters ditched him, he was leading one single band of people, backed by a few other like minded feudal landlord types, most of whom deserted him when it came to actually facing a much larger army of king's troops in the field and being proclaimed rebels etc. Moreover, Spain controlled the seas in that region, and had several colonies in what was largely jungle with some small settlements, predominantly militarized (or at least feudal) rather than civilian governments, it could choke off the army of rebels and field troops from surrounding colonies at a much faster pace than one smalltime rebel, even a Pizzarro, could cope with. The o'higgins rebellion was mostly in a more sophisticated and self sufficient society - a Spanish colony with a thriving though certainly white dominated, local economy (muzo emeralds, rubber, chocolate ..), people who were several generations away from Spain in some cases, though of Spanish ancestry, a largely weakened spain rather than the paramount power in Europe it was in the Pizzarro days .. In other words, that's not 100% about education, or some heroic Indian uprising against oppressive Spanish masters. No Toussaint l'overture, rani of Jhansi etc type stuff here. -Original Message- From: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net [mailto:silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net] On Behalf Of Srini RamaKrishnan Sent: 24 February 2012 22:21 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] Spanish conquistadores etc RE: aqvavit On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: Pizzarro's brother Gonzalo did try - and defeated and killed a viceroy that the king sent to replace him. Rebellion to form a feudal state is some thing else - we are talking in hypotheticals here - the reality is the monarchy prevailed - however I can imagine a scenario where better educated leaders with access to resources of a state 9 times the size of Spain could have worked to gain the support of the locals, the mulattoes, the criollos, the mestizos and other mixed peoples and establish a state where democratic freedom of the self was the rule. Of course they didn't - and there ends the matter. There's a lot of speculative intellectual debate among the Latin American literati on this topic - it's a favorite conversation topic in fact - could have, should have, would have territory - when I have the time I'll try do dig it up - my spanish isn't very good, and I'll have to rely on google translate quite a bit to get at it again. The Napoleonic wars and all the related stuff you mention is unfortunately far too late to be of relevance.
Re: [silk] Netiquette / Top posting (was: Re: aqvavit)
Gmail on the web has its own idiosyncracies and some context sensitive advertising that occasionally tends to the bizzarre So while you may not want to use anything else, or someone else may not want to move beyond mutt and emacs (both of which I use and top post with too..) - there's little or no connection between the client and whether or not you top post, except for a limited number of, mostly smartphone, clients. --Original Message-- From: Srini RamaKrishnan Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net To: silklist@lists.hserus.net ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: [silk] Netiquette / Top posting (was: Re: aqvavit) Sent: Feb 25, 2012 00:45 On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 7:50 PM, Heather Madrone heat...@madrone.com wrote: This is pushing me in the direction of top-posting. Why not push you in the direction of a new email program? What features are becoming important in email programs these days? I know that for me the decision to move to gmail / the cloud was made once I'd had enough of the silliness of pine/eudora/mulberry/outlook/mutt/thunderbird madness. I have Apple Mail configured to read gmail on some of my computers, but for the most part I never use it. -- srs (blackberry)
Re: [silk] Spanish conquistadores etc RE: aqvavit
Yes but either or both could have gone an entirely different way Like the USA might easily have ended up with a junta of initially enlightened types like jefferson and ben franklin, or maybe split into lots of little states like the Balkans. And if 1857 or some of the earlier wars had succeeded india might be a bunch of small monarchies now with an emperor in delhi --Original Message-- From: Srini RamaKrishnan Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net To: silklist@lists.hserus.net ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] Spanish conquistadores etc RE: aqvavit Sent: Feb 25, 2012 04:41 On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 6:13 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: Well .. you're describing sort of what happened in India in your first paragraph. Also the USA. -- srs (blackberry)
Re: [silk] aqvavit
Except perhaps for the missionary position, I doubt whether they contributed anything useful at all in general. eoe specific contributions by more scholarly types (fr. Constantine Joseph Beschi in tamil etc) of course. --Original Message-- From: Udhay Shankar N Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net To: silklist@lists.hserus.net ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] aqvavit Sent: Feb 25, 2012 09:39 On 24-Feb-12 8:05 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: you perform what was seen as (and declared by the pope as) your sacred duty to make Christians out of poor benighted pagans, saving them from eternal flames by torturing a guy here, executing a guy there .. This explains why it is so important to shoot missionaries (of whatever brand/stripe/religion) on sight. [1] Udhay [1] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/silk-list/message/10660 -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com)) -- srs (blackberry)
Re: [silk] aqvavit
And all the other little decadences of the mings didn't have a thing to do with this? Just an influx of spanish silver into their economy? -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 11:50:59 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] aqvavit On Feb 23, 2012 8:49 AM, ashok _ listmans...@gmail.com wrote: Its interesting you mention the ming dynasty in this context. Sometime back i finished reading Charles Mann's 1493 ( http://www.amazon.com/1493-Uncovering-Columbus-Created-ebook/dp/B004G606EY ). there is a really interesting part of the book about the silver trade with the spanish colonies in the americas and its huge impact on the chinese economy. they would become so dependent on spanish silver that it became the de-facto currency in china ... and all this eventually led to the ming empires decline and fall. Yes, a rather sad turn of events. New world silver was impacting the old world like little else, the Mughals too had to deal with the sudden wealth of the traders. The Ming dynasty started with a policy of self sufficiency and lack of trade or money in the villages. The very rich and the very poor effectively didn't have or have the need for money. The Ming dynasty lasted nearly 300 years and with the move of the capital to Beijing many policies changed. The navy grew to enormous proportions both as a fleet and also as singularly large ships, a single Ming treasure ship was larger than all of the ships of Christopher Columbus put end to end according to some accounts. The famous eunuch admiral Zheng he invaded Sri Lanka and had the local king (Akalesvara) clasped in chains and brought to Beijing for no more a crime than an assumed insult to the Chinese emperor. The delicious irony is how each of the inhuman conquistadors, Christopher Columbus, Francisco Pizarro, Hernan Cortez all ended up either shipped back to Spain in chains, or put to death or died begging for a living.
Re: [silk] aqvavit
But by that same logic the brits with all their opium, cotton etc from india would have crashed and burned long back, not after labor era socialism, the loss of their colonies etc The east india company did go bust after a while but that was more due to mismanagement and costly local wars than an influx of wealth --Original Message-- From: Srini RamaKrishnan Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net To: silklist@lists.hserus.net ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] aqvavit Sent: Feb 23, 2012 17:10 On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: And all the other little decadences of the mings didn't have a thing to do with this? Decadence rarely on its own brings an empire down, but it often precedes a fall. A new currency, whether it is silver or tea, or opium as China repeatedly discovered, can always be a cause for drastic changes in fortune. Britain ended up becoming an opium trader, and then invading China to enforce the trade because it didn't have the silver that China wanted for the tea. -- srs (blackberry)
Re: [silk] aqvavit
Srini RamaKrishnan [23/02/12 13:18 +0100]: On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 12:47 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: But by that same logic the brits with all their opium, cotton etc from india would have crashed and burned long back, not after labor era socialism, the loss of their colonies etc They've gone into a slow decline, or haven't you noticed? The pound is Yes. Post labor era socialism, post the loss of their colonies in the 40s and 50s. And an economy that was drained by world war II. The east india company did go bust after a while but that was more due to mismanagement and costly local wars than an influx of wealth The East India company like the Spanish conquistadors was chopped off at the knees by the monarch because it got too big for its shoes. hah no. rather way off I'm afraid. remember, the british government and the crown were very large shareholders in the EIC, seats on the board and such. take a look at the share price of the EIC .. 1753 - £195 1757 - £140 (Third Carnatic War begins, also 7 years war elsewhere) 1761 - £145 1763 - £175 (End of Seven Years War and 3rd carnatic war) 1765 - £150 (Clive resumes Governorship) 1767 - £280 (Clive quits Governorship beginning of Mysore war) 1769 - £280 1772 - £225 (Hastings as Governor General) 1773 - £140 1774 - £140 (Famine in Bengal) 1777 - £170 1781 - £150 1782 - £127 (Hastings condemned in parliament) 1785 - £130 (Hastings leaves for England) 1789 - £170 1793 - £200 1797 - £165 1801 - £200 1805 - £190 (Napoleonic Wars upto 1813) 1809 - £190 1813 - £165 1817 - £200 1821 - £230 so on and forth till 1857 when an enron like crash took place. Hyder Ali and Tipu Sultan in the 1750s and 1760s. Then the bengal famine in the 1770s. A gradual recovery after that, mainly because of the industrial revolution and more raw material exported out of India to fuel it .. the 1857 mutiny was what put a stop to the EIC, which was found incompetent to actually govern the country, having treated it simply as a money spinner and ignored all the political crises they faced. That caused the british government to effectively nationalize the EIC and bring India under crown rule. Not as much too big for their boots as too incompetent and greedy to be worth all the trouble and expenditure to the crown. Remember, the company had its own army in India, and they were joined by king's troops when the 1857 mutiny spiraled out of control. Even after 1857, they retained the reasonably lucrative tea trade from India till 1873, and the company was finally wound up in 1874. Those figures are from Niall Ferguson's excellent book Empire, How britain made the modern world, by the way ..
Re: [silk] aqvavit
Hah. Notice I didn't take much more than share prices and dates from his book. I had it handy and it was easier to get from there --Original Message-- From: Sirtaj Singh Kang Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net To: silklist@lists.hserus.net ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] aqvavit Sent: Feb 23, 2012 19:43 On 2/23/2012 6:38 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: so on and forth till 1857 when an enron like crash took place. No mention of Dalhousie? It was his wars, reforms and attempts to Empirify (Empirificate? Empiricise?) India that sucked the Company dry, turned India into a cost center for the Crown, and almost directly led to the revolt in the first place. Of course, opinions on this are still somewhat divided, but... Those figures are from Niall Ferguson's excellent book Empire, How britain made the modern world, by the way .. ... we can always rely on Niall Ferguson to come down firmly on the side of the Empire. I don't think there's a more dependable apologist alive these days. -Taj. -- srs (blackberry)
Re: [silk] aqvavit
Or because, on a blackberry, there's no way not to top post. Personally I don't make a conscious effort not to top post unless I want to quote some specific part of someone's message. -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Thaths tha...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 11:20:25 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] aqvavit On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Eugen Leitl eu...@leitl.org wrote: On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 06:28:48AM -0800, Thaths wrote: Off topic. A question about netiquette. So Is it no longer gauche to top-post? It is gauche, but nobody cares about decorum anymore. We're all neanderthals now. Ooga. On the other hand, I've had people go the way of the top-post because text input on a smart phone keyboard is as convenient as typing with two left hands. Thaths -- Homer: Hey, what does this job pay? Carl: Nuthin'. Homer: D'oh! Carl: Unless you're crooked. Homer: Woo-hoo! Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders
Re: [silk] aqvavit
Cheeni found that ironic :). And for every such empire builder type who died poor, there's no shortage of his peers who started out poor but died filthy rich. I wish we could say this was about natural justice coming home to roost after all that oppression .. -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: John Sundman j...@wetmachine.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:29:26 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] aqvavit On Feb 23, 2012, at 5:56 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: The delicious irony is how each of the inhuman conquistadors, Christopher Columbus, Francisco Pizarro, Hernan Cortez all ended up either shipped back to Spain in chains, or put to death or died begging for a living. Dear list: I hope to have something poetic and profound to say about this delicious irony at some point in the recent future, if I don't forget what I want to say or run out of time. Meanwhile, thank you all for this excellent discussion. jrs
Re: [silk] aqvavit
ashok _ [22/02/12 13:50 +0300]: if you notice most of the sourthern states have the highest suicide rates : http://maithrikochi.org/india_suicide_statistics.htm#State_Rate mostly farmer suicides in ap / karnataka etc due to unscrupulous lending by banks and microfinance institutions .. which has led to the recent backlash against MFIs like SKS microfinance
Re: [silk] aqvavit
So wanting to have a toilet in the house instead of crapping on the riverbank, a tv / fan instead of village dappankoothu performances and palm leaf hand fans, electric grinder rather than stone hand grinder is materialism? -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: ashok _ listmans...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:55:36 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] aqvavit On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com wrote: The deferring of debt repayments - it happens anyway, even without loan waivers. Agri loan restructuring is given a wide berth by the RBI. What happens is that these people go and borrow from moneylenders who are not part of the formal system, and the lenders twist arms. The Microfinance world tried to plug that gap but it turned out to have issues (though I think that is the real solution, expanding access to cerdit). Farmers make money once or twice a year during harvests, and then need to spend the money wisely during the rest of the year without spending it all on a wedding or feast. They are trapped between two lifestyles - one that wants to continue the traditions and ways of the past and one that wants to live in the selfish individuality of the future. There are deep sociological issues here that a country of the east like India embracing the economic ways of the west needs to consider. Carlos Fuentes wrote a lot about his home country Mexico in the context of living next to the large successful North American neighbor, India would do well to find its Fuentes. I agree with your sentiments about things being bad. But it is also a fact that a large majority of people want western ways and consumerism. I dont know if i want to even call it western since indian society is actually very materialistic - who doesnt want a television or a mobile phone ? heck - in tamil nadu home grown politicians (without any western education ) have been giving aways televisions, grinders , tablets etc (it could be entirely possible to argue that some people have benefited by using these freebies and so giving it away was in fact a good thing -- fundamentally, if people get something for free even a hand-kerchief and you ask them if they benefited from it, they will say yes ). giving money away (as a debt waiver or as a free television) is at best a short term solution, and the same politicians who are giving it out are hiding behind that to make up for failures in other basic provisions like providing potable water , transport and communication infrastructure etc - because thats more difficult to achieve and show as a return in the electoral cycle.
Re: [silk] aqvavit
Tradition and modernity have always coexisted, even in Latin America I don't quite see why one has to entirely throw the other out -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:02:32 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] aqvavit On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 2:55 PM, ashok _ listmans...@gmail.com wrote: I dont know if i want to even call it western since indian society is actually very materialistic Not materialism as much as a fondness for the past versus the future. Rural India is somewhere between a weak feudality and a vigorous democracy. Embracing the future means asking the past to leave - this is how the west knows to play the cards of progress. India isn't quite prepared for this - and the conflict becomes acute in communities that are slow in catching the rays of sunshine of the new dawn of progress. There are differences of history, culture, attitude and civilization that make the culture of the self, created at the expense of a sense of community hard to sustain. I recommend: Carlos Fuentes: Latin America: At war with the past http://www.amazon.com/Latin-America-Past-Massey-Lectures/dp/0887846653
Re: [silk] aqvavit
No point plowing through it if these are the conclusions it jumps to -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:55:29 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] aqvavit On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: Tradition and modernity have always coexisted, even in Latin America I don't quite see why one has to entirely throw the other out Read the book.
Re: [silk] aqvavit
Gentlemen of aurangabad - you think they're marginal farmers or something, or that aurangabad is some backwater hick town populated by marginal farmers? (I must admit, it is in marathwada so that impression is very easy to get .. and aurangabad district being semi arid like all of marathwada would have its fair share..) Aurangabad is a major manufacturing hub for audi, siemens, videocon etc - with the usual cloud of ancillary, parts etc suppliers around as well. Plenty of people with enough cash to pay for mercs .. And as for the 7 percent rather than (mostly) 11 percent rather than 14 percent a car loan costs, there's a huge difference between a loan for a single tractor (or a single suzuki swift), and 148 mercs at 4 million rupees each. You find me a single banker who is dumb enough to charge retail car loan interest for such a transaction .. But in the ordinary course of things not a penny of that money would reach marginal income villages except by a trickle down effect (buying their produce, employing them in factories if they have skills for that, instead of digging canals at NREGA wages etc). So if they didn't buy mercs they'd have, say, invested 40 lakhs in the share market or whatever. Unless they all got bit by the corporate social responsibility bug to deny themselves all personal luxury and plow every penny of profit into improving the lot of the farmers .. One thing the constitution hasn't ever restricted is the right for people to earn money legally using their skills and knowledge - manufacturing parts for audi, coding for google etc. You can find it a safe assumption that if any of the people digging ditches for an nrega minimum wage could get a steady job doing most anything else they would do it. -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Deepak Shenoy deepakshe...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 22:14:37 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] aqvavit GDP is useful to point out the scale of money in the economy, and the tiny amount that NREGA/S is adding to the pool. It adds much more than that as the money rotates through the system. That's not the point, the reason it's a big cost is that it's a big part of govt spend, that's all. # Mukesh Ambani with a known personal wealth of $22.6 Billion could run the NREGA for 3-4 years on savings - i.e. he has 2-3 times more money than 42 million Indian households put together earn in a year. I'm not sure how this matters, but more power to him, and more power to make people earn more money and pay taxes. We need more billionaires not less. Even if one believes that merely adding $5 Billion to the rural economy can cause a 13% jump in food inflation, which I don't then it is a scathing criticism of the income inequalities in India - the money is going directly towards food - these are people who are otherwise starving. I think we'll find it's the other way - people continue to starve, teh marginal guy gets some extra money which he ends up paying extra for food so he hardly benefits. Either ways it's not the $8 billion (not $5B) that causes food inflation, it's how it's done. These 42 million households are not at all like the gentlemen of Aurangabad (and it was gentlemen, not a single woman was present), who ordered 148 Mercedes Benz automobiles together at a reduced 7% (instead of the usual 14% for tractors) interest rate courtesy SBI. Not to say this is a good thing of course, but I'm not sure why this is considered less bad than NREGA? I'd argue against both. I haev no problem with someone ordering 148 benz cars, but the lower rate of interest is necessarily bad if there was corruption involved. I don't see any mention in the constitution of a duty to create more Billionaires, or luxury car owners. There is no such duty - like there is no duty in the constitution to provide air for you to breathe. But it happens. If there aren't enough laborers in the villages during harvest season that is truly good, NREGA is pushing up the local wages, and helping the poor to fight established brokers and middle men who keep wages low and exploitative. In the context of inflation it's bad. It may be a better in the short term, but we create a bad bad long term hazard. You increase wages through proper competition, like Ford who paid his labourers more and got his productivity. The short term impact of NREGA is higher local wages, but teh important part is: higher local wages because the competition is, largely, earning money for no work. The very rich do that, now the very poor do it, and us middle class fellows get shafted for it. How many of the Aurangabad brigade will pay back their subsidized loans do you think? These are politically connected crooks who will likely walk out of the loan the same way they got the half price loans in the first place. Our
Re: [silk] aqvavit
Wonderful quote, thank you - much better to my taste than an argument between a professional economist (deepak) and a gifted amateur (cheeni) on poverty eradication --Original Message-- From: Dave Long Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net To: silklist@lists.hserus.net ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] aqvavit Sent: Feb 22, 2012 23:25 Tradition and modernity have always coexisted, even in Latin America GK Chesterton had (nearly a century ago) an insight on the coexistence* of tradition and modernity: I believe what really happens in history is this: the old man is always wrong; and the young people are always wrong about what is wrong with him. The practical form it takes is this: that, while the old man may stand by some stupid custom, the young man always attacks it with some theory that turns out to be equally stupid. -Dave * if you believe this characterization to be a bit too facile, the same writer admitted (in another context) that: impartiality is a pompous name for indifference, which is an elegant name for ignorance -- srs (blackberry)
Re: [silk] [liberationtech] The Indian government circumvents telcos to tap phones
Not circumvent as such but I know of no lawful intercept mechanism that isn't operated on a restricted access, need to know basis Too many people with access to this can and will lead to leakage of data, illegal taps etc -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Eugen Leitl eu...@leitl.org Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 08:44:06 To: i...@postbiota.org; cypherpu...@al-qaeda.net; silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: [silk] [liberationtech] The Indian government circumvents telcos to tap phones - Forwarded message from Samujjal (Shayan) Purkayastha m...@samujjal.com - From: Samujjal (Shayan) Purkayastha m...@samujjal.com Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 11:24:22 +0530 To: liberationt...@mailman.stanford.edu Subject: [liberationtech] The Indian government circumvents telcos to tap phones From http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article2920844.ece?homepage=true Centre can directly access your phone chat soonSandeep Joshi Secure tapping mechanism ready; sequel to Radia tape leak Soon the Centre would have direct access to all your telephone conversations as the Department of Telecommunications (DoT) has developed capabilities to intercept phones without keeping your operator in the loop. Currently, trials are on in Delhi and Haryana through a main server established in the national capital. It would take another 12 months before the system is officially operational.Alarmed by the leak in the corporate lobbyist Niira Radia phone-tapping case, the Centre at the highest level decided to set up a Central Monitoring System (CMS) to tap calls without the interference of telecom service providers. Subsequently, the DoT's Telecom Enforcement, Resource and Monitoring (TREM) Cell along with the Centre for Development of Telematics (C-DoT) was asked to develop the project for which Rs.170 crore was earmarked. After almost one year, the CMS is ready and being tested. *Exclusive facility* “This is the DoT's exclusive facility that would assist intelligence and security agencies, besides strategic government departments in phone-tapping,” a senior DoT official said. The DoT would be required to set up separate servers in each State, depending upon the requirements and the number of subscribers. While the facility in Delhi and adjoining States are likely to be ready by year-end, it might take at least another couple of years before servers are established across India. *Complex system* The present system of phone-tapping is a complex one as eight intelligence and investigating agencies wanting to snoop on anybody's phone are required to approach the Union Home Ministry for clearance with specific reasons. Armed with necessary clearances, the department officials would then approach the telecom operators for tapping phones. It is feared that the loopholes in the current process led to the leakage of the Radia tapes. *Total control* However, in the new mechanism, the DoT will have total control of a tapped line, giving telecom firms no access to the intercepted line. Another important aspect of the new centralised system is that irrespective of operators, lines would be tapped at one location, which will be manned round-the-clock by officials of the government agencies. ___ liberationtech mailing list liberationt...@lists.stanford.edu Should you need to change your subscription options, please go to: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech If you would like to receive a daily digest, click yes (once you click above) next to would you like to receive list mail batched in a daily digest? You will need the user name and password you receive from the list moderator in monthly reminders. Should you need immediate assistance, please contact the list moderator. Please don't forget to follow us on http://twitter.com/#!/Liberationtech - End forwarded message - -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a http://leitl.org __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
Re: [silk] aqvavit
It is actually a good idea to fit rural patterns of seasonal employment (during the sowing and harvest seasons, not at all during droughts etc) .. Prevents them from emigrating en masse to the cities to get even worse labor at far cheaper rates -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 12:01:13 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] aqvavit On Feb 21, 2012 11:29 AM, Ingrid ingrid.srin...@gmail.com wrote: On 21 February 2012 07:23, ashok _ listmans...@gmail.com wrote: I found this really weird in NREGA ... the requirement that no mechanized equipment can be used. What was the motivation behind it ? Limiting NREGA work to back-breaking physical labour at less than minimum wage available for a maximum of 100 days a year to only one member of each household ensures that only the most desperately poor sign up for it. And not all of it is bad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NREGS_(Kerala)
Re: [silk] aqvavit
Certainly not institutionalized And the world bank has some wonderful ict initiatives going on, some of the best financial thinkers on its staff etc. Naïve and facile generalizations are just what characterize the ron paul-ish faux libertarianism, general hatred of big money, big government etc rhetoric .. -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: ashok _ listmans...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 17:35:44 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] aqvavit On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 1:13 AM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 9:50 PM, ashok _ listmans...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 8:09 PM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com wrote: Closer to home (for most in this list that is), Manmohan Singh and Montek Singh Ahluwalia both receive pensions from the World Bank. I have read this stated as a worrying thing before, but why is this problematic ? If they worked for companies prior to becoming politicians or technocrats they would receive pensionsits a declared and documented and legally entitled income. I dont see anything inappropriate in that. Isnt this the same thing ? I mean if they ran the country as a communist state the world bank would not stop giving them their pensions. It's disturbing for the same reason that it's of concern to many that Dick Cheney and Haliburton have links in the past. We are shaped by our past, and we are known by the company we keep. If Messrs. Singh Ahluwalia cut their teeth in the World Bank circles, they are no doubt persuaded to a greater or smaller degree by its policies, and think it good for the world. yeah i think cheney was the CEO of halliburton...and i remember there was a case by the nigerian govt against halliburton for the period of his tenure of his CEO. MMS and montek were consultants and bureaucrats at the world bank i think you are comparing oil and water in terms of designations and what it implies. anyhow, the world bank is very far away from being a closeted ideology driven unit... much like the UN you get appointed to these positions based on a mix of country quotas, domain knowledge, personal leverage etc... its far from being a club of freemasons, i dont think any sane person working for such organizations gets influenced by the organizational ideology (which itself is a cliche at best). i dont think either of them needed a world bank to make them corrupt - you can be corrupt even without that :-) taking the Cheney example ..was it Halliburton shaping Cheney ... or Cheney shaping Haliburton to his ideology ?
Re: [silk] aqvavit
Financial reforms versus gravy train subsidy? Mismanage and then sell bonds, raise rates on freight etc? Singh was a protege of harold laski back in the day if I remember correctly - and that would certainly have an impact on him, as would working in the imf / world bank scene and as a practicing economist rather than a short term (next election) focused politician be more aware of the micro and macro economic aspects of any decision Kotow to the usa, neo capitalist, anti poor etc rhetoric doesn't help the situation and in fact drives more and more extreme proposals forward -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 17:04:16 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] aqvavit On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 3:35 PM, ashok _ listmans...@gmail.com wrote: yeah i think cheney was the CEO of halliburton...and i remember there was a case by the nigerian govt against halliburton for the period of his tenure of his CEO. MMS and montek were consultants and bureaucrats at the world bank i think you are comparing oil and water in terms of designations and what it implies. The revolving door syndrome is all is being discussed, I don't think it's useful to deal with specific examples which are only by way of illustration. Singh's LSE education possibly has as much effect on him for that matter. The point being the Singh enterprise is the best we have at the moment IMO in terms of political leadership and yet in my opinion, it shows naive distrust of big business and acceptance of the world status quo. Numerous times in the two terms, the Singh enterprise (UPA/NDA) has sought to push policies that are WTO, IMF friendly that have been met with strong rejection from the people. This requires discussion at the national level; which as far as I know isn't happening.
Re: [silk] Biryani Recipes
Udhay Shankar N [19/02/12 21:04 +0530]: Resurrecting this thread from a year ago (original post left unchanged below for context) as I came across an interesting new recipe today. Julian, I assume our QA arrangement continues as before. :) http://www.thehindu.com/life-and-style/Food/article2900338.ece haha, a malabar vegetable biryani indeed, and not much marinade at all. looks like what gets called generic veg pulao these are more authentic recipes - http://malluspice.blogspot.in/2007/12/malabar-chicken-biryani.html http://www.pachakam.com/recipe.asp?id=1477RecipeName=Malabar%20Mutton%20Biriyani%20%28biryani%29
Re: [silk] aqvavit
ashok _ [19/02/12 23:50 +0300]: On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 8:09 PM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com wrote: Closer to home (for most in this list that is), Manmohan Singh and Montek Singh Ahluwalia both receive pensions from the World Bank. I have read this stated as a worrying thing before, but why is this problematic ? A very good question that gets lost in all the libertarian rhetoric
Re: [silk] How Your Cat Is Making You Crazy
You are actually talking to a middle aged guy who is a practicing surgeon I guess you'll hear from him next with his doctor hat and professional demeanour on -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: John Sundman j...@wetmachine.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 00:21:45 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] How Your Cat Is Making You Crazy On Feb 16, 2012, at 11:37 PM, ss wrote: Well your worry about the cat will last only so long as it takes for you to discover what other non human entity has had an influence on humans. I don't give two fucks about any cat. We've never owned one, my wife is allergic, and we've always been a dog family. Cats do not concern me. Toxoplasmosis does, especially congenital toxoplasmosis. My son has nearly died about ten times. He has hydrocephalus, a seizure disorder (all kinds); he's had emergency brain surgery, has severe visual impairment, cognitive impairment, sensory impairment, poor coordination and a weak immune system. He has suffered a lifetime of virtual friendlessness and ostracism. He has been tormented by psychosis. He has been ridiculed and shunned. His life expectancy is short. What little vision he has will be gone soon. He has been the subject of medical incompetence and malpractice and caring for him has driven my family into bankruptcy and stress pretty much beyond my ability to describe, perhaps beyond your ability to comprehend. With that background, may I ask how old you are and by what lights you presume to tell me what I do or don't know about what other non human influences may have had an influence on my son or any other human? Also do you suffer from any chronic, incurable debilitating diseases? Do you believe in disease, or do you think that too is a silly concept? Do you believe in sanitation? I only offered my note to any on the Silklist who might be interested in my extensive first hand experience. Having or caring for someone afflicted by toxoplasmosis can be hellish, and I like to help people who are touched by toxo hell. I certainly have no interest in cute sophistries about the arbitrariness of norms for what constitutes being human. I do like to talk about such things, but generally at a post-kindergarten level. Kind regards, jrs
Re: [silk] Delhi meetup?
Who is to know if you bring in a laptop bag full of beer and scotch, and behave quietly? --Original Message-- From: Venkat Mangudi Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net To: silklist@lists.hserus.net ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] Delhi meetup? Sent: Feb 15, 2012 22:29 On Wednesday 15 February 2012 09:44 PM, Nikhil Mehra wrote: Boheme for a drink and then gunpowder for dinner? Both are in hauz khas village. Alternatively, we could meet at cafe ziro for a drink. Nice informal place run by a friend of mine where the alcohol will be cheap and the beef (buff) is excellent. Anything is fine with me. Would leave you, Nikhil, to choose for us non-Delhiites. JAP, where are you staying? Hotels might charge corkage if we bring our own booze. And hotel booze is probably just as expensive as a fancy restaurant. :-) --Venkat -- srs (blackberry)
Re: [silk] Airtel 3G
Mahesh Murthy [06/02/12 12:33 +0530]: I have 3G on Airtel on my Galaxy Note. No problems. Other than that the battery life of the damn thing goes down from ~30 hours on 2G+ Wi Fi to about 16 hrs on 3G + Wi fi. Airtel 3G on my wife's older E71 is quite good, and has coverage even in random district towns in south tamil nadu. Vodafone 3g on my bb bold works great in chennai and bangalore, say - but once you're out of the big cities they're horrible
Re: [silk] Teaching creationism, scientology etc as alternatives to evolution made compulsory in Indiana.
gabin kattukaran [07/02/12 09:30 +0530]: On 7 February 2012 05:53, Charles Haynes hay...@edgeplay.org wrote: http://j.mp/zkVSqH now they're making Google censor results that make fun of religion in Indiana. Oh wait, that's not IndiaNA, that's India. How dare you throw stones at our beautiful glass house? It offends our sensibilities and we will not tolerate it. As we would say here, this is India, na? according to the hon'ble judge from the delhi high court, it is actually china, eh?
Re: [silk] sendmail book
Nice for the historical value I guess The sendmail codebase, config etc have changed lots (almost beyond recognition) since then if I don't miss my guess -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Deepak Misra dee...@deepakmisra.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 19:07:48 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: [silk] sendmail book I have a very old copy of sendmail by *Robbins, Arnold; Dougherty, Dale ISBN 1-56592-222-0 (2nd edition) In case any of the geeks in this list could have any use for this book and are willing to pick it up from me from Old Airport Road or Cuninmgham road let me know offlist Deepak *
Re: [silk] History books on Baltics / Easter Europe and South-East Asia
Thaths did a lot of travel through se asia including laos, you should find his blog someplace. Vinayak Hegde [02/02/12 16:43 +0530]: Hi silklisters, I wanted a few recommendations on History books on Baltics (Estonia / Latvia / Lithuania), Eastern Europe (Czech Republic, Slovenia, Croatia, Slovakia, Hungary and further east) and Southeast Asia (mostly Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam). I have visited some of these countries in the past but do not know much about their history (medieval times, colonisation and road to independence). Wikipedia only sates the palata so much. I would prefer travelogues or biographies as compared to drier documentary reads of history. -- Vinayak
Re: [silk] JT Edsons
Edson is mcdonalds to l'amours deli pastrami -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Vinit Bhansali vi...@bhansalimail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 20:18:12 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] JT Edsons On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Chandrachoodan Gopalakrishnan chandrachoo...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: Does anybody have these around - especially the older ones from the 1960s Had a few Dusty Fogg and Ysabel Kid books. Just gave them away to a friend who works with govt. schools. Will see if I have more in cold storage. Have a couple of L'Amour if you're interested Have almost every L'Amour book. Never got around to JT Edson. How does their writing quality/style compare? Mine are available to borrow and return if you like! - Vinit Bhansali
Re: [silk] JT Edsons
His earlier works are very good pulp - tightly plotted, fast moving, lots of (not particularly accurate, but believable) detail .. The later ones had frayed plots, filled up with verbose recycling of character backgrounds and random right wing rants, not to mention very badly written sex .. Kind of like a worse version of the later heinleins --Original Message-- From: Udhay Shankar N Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net To: silklist@lists.hserus.net ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] JT Edsons Sent: Jan 30, 2012 21:31 On 30-Jan-12 8:18 PM, Vinit Bhansali wrote: Have almost every L'Amour book. Never got around to JT Edson. How does their writing quality/style compare? Louis L'Amour is a far better writer than Edson - but for some reason, Edson's earlier works are a guilty pleasure for several people, myself included. Udhay -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com)) -- srs (blackberry)
Re: [silk] JT Edsons
Even the later MacLeans were somewhat readable. The later Edsons weren't - I wouldn't even borrow them from a library. -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: thew...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 16:55:08 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] JT Edsons Or Alistair MacLeans? Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone -Original Message- From: Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net Sender: silklist-bounces+thewall=gmail@lists.hserus.net Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 16:52:51 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] JT Edsons His earlier works are very good pulp - tightly plotted, fast moving, lots of (not particularly accurate, but believable) detail .. The later ones had frayed plots, filled up with verbose recycling of character backgrounds and random right wing rants, not to mention very badly written sex .. Kind of like a worse version of the later heinleins --Original Message-- From: Udhay Shankar N Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net To: silklist@lists.hserus.net ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] JT Edsons Sent: Jan 30, 2012 21:31 On 30-Jan-12 8:18 PM, Vinit Bhansali wrote: Have almost every L'Amour book. Never got around to JT Edson. How does their writing quality/style compare? Louis L'Amour is a far better writer than Edson - but for some reason, Edson's earlier works are a guilty pleasure for several people, myself included. Udhay -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com)) -- srs (blackberry)
Re: [silk] JT Edsons
Yes. Bunduki was the grandson of tarzan, and a lot of real and fictional characters - such as edgar wallace's four just men and jg reeder - appear in edson's books He loved philip jose farmer's wold newton theory, that man -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: thew...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 17:05:30 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] JT Edsons Did Edson also write some vaguely Flash Gordon/ outer space stuff? I remember a Great White Hunter called Bunduki. My favorite, though, were the Dusty Fog series. Much better than the Brad Counter/ Ole Devil series. -Lahar Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone -Original Message- From: Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net Sender: silklist-bounces+thewall=gmail@lists.hserus.net Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 17:00:16 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] JT Edsons Even the later MacLeans were somewhat readable. The later Edsons weren't - I wouldn't even borrow them from a library. -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: thew...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 16:55:08 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] JT Edsons Or Alistair MacLeans? Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone -Original Message- From: Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net Sender: silklist-bounces+thewall=gmail@lists.hserus.net Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 16:52:51 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] JT Edsons His earlier works are very good pulp - tightly plotted, fast moving, lots of (not particularly accurate, but believable) detail .. The later ones had frayed plots, filled up with verbose recycling of character backgrounds and random right wing rants, not to mention very badly written sex .. Kind of like a worse version of the later heinleins --Original Message-- From: Udhay Shankar N Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net To: silklist@lists.hserus.net ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] JT Edsons Sent: Jan 30, 2012 21:31 On 30-Jan-12 8:18 PM, Vinit Bhansali wrote: Have almost every L'Amour book. Never got around to JT Edson. How does their writing quality/style compare? Louis L'Amour is a far better writer than Edson - but for some reason, Edson's earlier works are a guilty pleasure for several people, myself included. Udhay -- ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com)) -- srs (blackberry)
Re: [silk] JT Edsons
Biju Chacko [31/01/12 11:08 +0530]: Does anybody else have any other guilty pleasures (of the literary kind) they'd ... um... recommend (if that's the word). My list would include Clive Cussler, David Eddings and Edgar Rice Burroughs. eddings and erb were again very good. tight though stereotyped plots, lots of action. dont forget capt.w.e johns' biggles series. Especially the war flying ones (and in particular the ones set during WW1) were brilliant. Far less so the ones that were set between the wars (with exotic native savages and huge giant squids to contend with), or the iron curtain spy dramas from biggles' later career.
Re: [silk] JT Edsons
Thejaswi Udupa [31/01/12 11:32 +0530]: Aside - KQA's annual quiz on speculative fiction, 'Chronosynclastic Infundibulum' is on this Saturday (2pm at IAT, Queens Road). Since the interest in SFF is higher on this group than outside, I humbly suggest that you all teleport your selves to the quiz at said point in time and space. udupas speculative fiction quizzes are strongly recommended for anybody and everybody who reads sff on this list.
Re: [silk] JT Edsons
Biju Chacko [31/01/12 11:23 +0530]: I've read a few of those, mostly when I was in school. Speaking of savages, have you read any Doc Savage novels? some. ages back - and those hal and roger novels about collecting animals for a zoo. and richmal crompton's william series though they arent pulp.
Re: [silk] JT Edsons
thew...@gmail.com [31/01/12 06:22 +]: My current favorite mindless thriller writers: 1. James Rollins. add lee child's jack reacher books. but you can only read so many books about a strong silent highly trained killer type who always gets to make love to a woman he's met for maybe a few hours, and finally kills the psycho sadist killer and his cronies as bloodily as possible
Re: [silk] JT Edsons
Yes indeed --Original Message-- From: thew...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net To: silklist@lists.hserus.net ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] JT Edsons Sent: Jan 31, 2012 13:09 Hal and Roger were Willard Price right? --Original Message-- From: Suresh Ramasubramanian Sender: silklist-bounces+thewall=gmail@lists.hserus.net To: silklist@lists.hserus.net ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] JT Edsons Sent: Jan 31, 2012 1:02 PM Biju Chacko [31/01/12 11:23 +0530]: I've read a few of those, mostly when I was in school. Speaking of savages, have you read any Doc Savage novels? some. ages back - and those hal and roger novels about collecting animals for a zoo. and richmal crompton's william series though they arent pulp. Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone -- srs (blackberry)
Re: [silk] JT Edsons
Let us also not forget the oldies Elmore Leonard - classic western, gangster etc pulp still going strong Years back - g.a henty, george manville fenn, harrie irving hancock (west point and annapolis series) ... -- srs (blackberry)
Re: [silk] What is the greatest human invention?
Let us put it this way. Bangalore or not, tech support does have to follow a script so you, and they, know for sure that troubleshooting step X was done. And yes, whatever it is, is usually documented in the manual or online -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: John Sundman j...@wetmachine.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 21:28:09 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] What is the greatest human invention? Three nights ago, for some reason, our 3-month-old DVD player stopped communicating with our television, into which it was plugged. The audio worked but the video didn't. After trying to figure out what was wrong and re-connecting cables and rebooting, etc, for fifteen minutes or so, I called the 800 number listed on a sticker on the machine and was soon connected to a nice woman, who, by her voice, seemed pretty young to me, who told me her name was Jenny. She had a peculiar accent, which to my non-linguistically-trained ears I would describe as 2 parts American Television, 2 parts Kate Middleton, and 6 parts Hindi. (I don't recall if I asked her if she was in Bangalore. I usually do, because the question interests me. I've probably asked this questions ten times, with yes being the answer 6 times, I can't talk about that being the answer twice, and a hangup/disconnect being the answer twice. After leading me through ten minutes of useless exercises (which I had already done) such as powering on and off, etc, Jenny said, Now, here's what we're going to do. Hold down the 'Stop' button for ten seconds. Sure enough, that worked, and within another minute my wife was watching her Jane Eyre DVD. (Why Jenny couldn't have listened to me when I told her I had already rebooted, etc, saved me ten minutes and just told me to hold down the stop button for ten seconds (thereby saving me ten minutes of time frustration) is not too hard to fathom. She's paid to follow a script, and she follows it. Facts don't concern her. (Nor should they, I guess, at the minimal wage she's presumably paid)). The best part of the whole encounter was when 'Jenny' helpfully and politely explained that the whole hold down the stop button for ten seconds business was explained on page 26 of the manual that shipped with the machine I had bought, so that if this problem ever came up again I could just turn to that instead of calling the help line. Regards, jrs On Jan 29, 2012, at 3:02 PM, Heather Madrone wrote: Wait. You have actually had success in recent years with a call to a support center?
Re: [silk] What is the greatest human invention?
Let us just say that, living in india so that my phone tech support would invariably come from bangalore .. I don't care if my support comes from a call center stateside or in europe instead, for some things at least - like bank loans - I prefer to have clear verbal and written communication with the actual person that makes the decisions. This typically means driving over to my bank and meeting the bank manager and loan officer assigned to my case --Original Message-- From: Charles Haynes Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net To: silklist@lists.hserus.net ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] What is the greatest human invention? Sent: Jan 30, 2012 08:56 On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 11:15 AM, John Sundman j...@wetmachine.com wrote: when it comes to my mortgage, I draw the line. Why? Seriously. Is it because telephone tech support from Bangalore is relatively low quality in all cases, and you're willing to put up with it for most things, but want high-quality technical support for your mortgage? Why is that? Is it because you understand the other things better and so are more confident you can identify the useful information from amongst the chaff, but are less confident in the case of mortgages, or something else? -- Charles -- srs (blackberry)
