Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responses
Hans Holger Rutz, I have seriously read Rasa's article. In Latvia, the BIB growth from 2005-2018 (with the exception of 2008-2010) was always higher than the EU average, often up to 400%. (Source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lettland#wirtschaftsdaten). This is a very large difference between factual situation and what was written here in the discussion. You are welcome to research other discrepancies yourself. I was in Riga in 2003 at the RIXC conference - it took place in a very desolate looking school building. About 10 years later I was again in Riga: Rixc conference took place in the building of the business school - well equipped with best infrastructure etc. - no difference to a German university. In 2003, as a result of a democratic decision, the Russian minority (approx. 25% of the population) was the uderdogs. In front of people who talked in Russian was spit out on the open street. Russian language people were not served in bars. In 2013 the situation was a little more relaxed; However, democratic development in Latvia is to remove the Russian language completely from schools, which necessarily has to lead to moods in the Russian administration, regardless of whether there is a Putin, a Jelzin or a Gorbachoff. To get to the point: In addition to the dichotomy outlined by Rasa, I stand on the third side. These are those people who suffer from war, these are those people in front of which are spit out for no reason, these are those people who die from hunger because the Ukrainian grain deliveries are absent, and these are the people who end up in prison because they make use of freedom of speech. To claim to have read the "wrong" books also belongs here in the arsenal of propaganda. And as a result of that third side you have to analyze, under which condition the war in Ukraine can end. I am not on the side of the aggressors, but also not on the side of those who make false decisions using a democratic majority. And at the end: I think little of art projects that make war in Ukraine on the subject of aesthetically charged activities. Best Christoph Hanns Holger Rutz schrieb: Frankly Christoph, I don't think you have absorbed anything that had been written in that very long statement. The whole situation reminds me very much of the coup in Venezuela when Maduro took over after the death of Chavez. Exactly the same "there is only shades of gray, but Chomsky, but America, but bla". There are moments in life when you can make very clear decisions on which side to stand. This doesn't imply at all, that you cannot criticise anyone "on your side". We don't need to be fanboys of USA to take a clear position in this war. But I'm repeating what Rasa already wrote, so I don't know if it makes sense to try to come to any common sense here. As a person that grew up in Western Germany, for the first time I understood that I might be wrong on judging things that I have not personally experienced, was getting to know people, friends, who had tried to flee the GDR or be non-conformant in the GDR, and who ended up in GDR prison and were damaged for life. Best, .h.h. On 18/07/2022 09.51, christoph theiler wrote: Rasa wrote: "In this situation there are only clear two sides - Either Supporting Ukraine or Being Pro -Tutin" I cannot agree with this friend/enemy logic: "If you are not my friend, then you are my enemy". It has already been said here that in addition to Ukraine and Russia, America also plays an important role in this conflict. Best Christoph Rasa Smite schrieb: __ SPECTRE list for media culture in Deep Europe Info, archive and help: http://post.in-mind.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/spectre
Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responses
Dear Rasa, It seems there are a lot emotions and frustration and the attitude to see things in binomial opposition is making you interpret anything I say as if when I was 8 years old I was a dumb kid brainwashed by the Soviet Union. The conversation here is not constructive as there is no space to say anything that isn't aligned with what you wrote earlier, that you are either willing to throw bombs with Biden "in the name of freedom", or you are willing to throw bombs with Putin "in the name of Russian totalitarian regime". And because I do not want to align to any of this, but rather NOT THROW BOMBS AT ALL, you are attacking me and my naive 7 or 8 year old self with a certain ferocity which is exactly the opposite of peace and dialogue. But don't worry, I forgive it, I understand that the feelings at play are intense. It did surprise me to see that from my first email there was no reaction to my comment on Dutch journalism and Dutch society, whilst the gun was shot twice towards the desires of a little girl offended by the supremacy of a foreign culture which colonised her country dropping chocolate bars and female tights from the sky. I don't know how familiar you are with Italian history in general and Togliatti's role in particular. A very good book I may suggest is Paul Ginsborg's "A History of Contemporary Italy: 1943-80". Also, for your information, I wasn't raised in Disneyland, and being the last child in a large family, my parents had both seen fascism and the second world war. I heard first hand stories about the war, what it meant to go to a school without windows or having to change city every few months to escape the bombs. And being my dad from Milan and my mum from the very South Lecce, I have heard the same stories narrated from different geographical perspectives. I have also seen documents, such as primary school books of the fascist era. What you tell me about Lenin's Russia has similarities to what I have seen or heard from my father's Mussolini Italy (however, when I was that age the secretary was Gorbachev). Then again, apart from attacking my personal histories, why haven't you commented on the war in Afganistan? And also, why have you ignored what I have said about being raised in a country where the naked female body was splashed all over the city to sell everything, from tyres to bubble gum? Don't you think that that form of communication was violent? Or is it also part of Disney's total animation? Among the reasons I was trying to fantasise that perhaps there was an alternative to the real I was experiencing were the modalities of pervasive capitalist communication and their use of the female body. But I supposed that, as they were teaching you to operate guns at school, your social identity as a woman wasn't defined as a "walking bum with boobs and several holes to be fulfilled" by the "more intelligent and technically capable" Man. Anyway, i will leave the conversation here, I don't have any more time to respond to irrational attacks , I am trying to say that things are complex and there are many perspectives; personally, I don't think Biden is much better than Putin (they are both full of crap), you think one is good and the other one is bad. Fine. Let's agree to disagree. PEACE TO ALL, LOVE TO ALL I send you my deepest, heartfelt blessing, Eleonora On 2022-07-18 00:14, Rasa Smite wrote: Hello Eleonore wrote: "My anecdote was in response to Rasa, to highlight that there are multiple perspectives and modalities for cultural appropriation (and rejection)". With this war, we have landed in the situation, where its not anymore that easy to play with "multiple perspectives and modalities" before the ground is not clear and stable enough, before we are not on the same page.. I wrote already, in this situation there are only clearly two sides - either supporting Ukraine or being pro-Putin, there doesn't exist democratic "multiple perspectives and modalities" in this case as we don't deal with democratic country... And your anecdote just shows that there are many misleading ideas around.. this is what I wrote in my reply to Heath: the problem is that most of the marxist-communist-thinking people in the West (who have read bit too much of French and Russian philosophy or literature) today have to revise their theories, notions and realise finally they have been following the wrong dreams (nightmares, trust me...). So it's now your turn, dear people living in UK, and other wealthy Western countries, to put some effort in changing your thinking, your perspectives, and before joining the funny May day parades, and reading 100 years old authors (who have no clue how the communism works in real life), or listen 92 years old capitalism critics (such as Chomsky) please re-think twice before you write something that naive as comparing America's Disney's land "propaganda" with Russia's aggressive
Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responses
i understand baltic nation states caution with the russian federation, but the rest of the world is afraid of the USAE 4 million civilians dead since 9/11 https://www.workers.org/2021/10/59727/ estimated civilian deaths as a result of NATO non-defensive actions since formation - 20 million It is the first chance in hundred years when secret service took over whole country (talking about Russia). cia runs USA democracy for USAE also MI5 runs UK democracy for USAE https://declassifieduk.org/how-the-uk-military-and-intelligence-establishment-is-working-to-stop-jeremy-corbyn-becoming-prime-minister/~ wisdom is proportional to proportionality __ SPECTRE list for media culture in Deep Europe Info, archive and help: http://post.in-mind.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/spectre
Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responses
On 17/07/2022 15:35, heath bunting wrote: i think its worth drawing a distinction between the soviet union and the russian federation both politically and historically I think there is no distinction between Russia now and Soviet Union, both are imperialist countries. Even worse: Soviet Union was ruled by the communist party, it was superior to KGB. Now, the secret service is ruling the country, even the president is secret service guy. It is the first chance in hundred years when secret service took over whole country (talking about Russia). Raivo P.s. I totally agree with Rasa. -- -- Raivo Kelomees __ SPECTRE list for media culture in Deep Europe Info, archive and help: http://post.in-mind.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/spectre
Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responses
Frankly Christoph, I don't think you have absorbed anything that had been written in that very long statement. The whole situation reminds me very much of the coup in Venezuela when Maduro took over after the death of Chavez. Exactly the same "there is only shades of gray, but Chomsky, but America, but bla". There are moments in life when you can make very clear decisions on which side to stand. This doesn't imply at all, that you cannot criticise anyone "on your side". We don't need to be fanboys of USA to take a clear position in this war. But I'm repeating what Rasa already wrote, so I don't know if it makes sense to try to come to any common sense here. As a person that grew up in Western Germany, for the first time I understood that I might be wrong on judging things that I have not personally experienced, was getting to know people, friends, who had tried to flee the GDR or be non-conformant in the GDR, and who ended up in GDR prison and were damaged for life. Best, .h.h. On 18/07/2022 09.51, christoph theiler wrote: Rasa wrote: "In this situation there are only clear two sides - Either Supporting Ukraine or Being Pro -Tutin" I cannot agree with this friend/enemy logic: "If you are not my friend, then you are my enemy". It has already been said here that in addition to Ukraine and Russia, America also plays an important role in this conflict. Best Christoph Rasa Smite schrieb: __ SPECTRE list for media culture in Deep Europe Info, archive and help: http://post.in-mind.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/spectre
Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responses
Rasa wrote: "In this situation there are only clear two sides - Either Supporting Ukraine or Being Pro -Tutin" I cannot agree with this friend/enemy logic: "If you are not my friend, then you are my enemy". It has already been said here that in addition to Ukraine and Russia, America also plays an important role in this conflict. Best Christoph Rasa Smite schrieb: Hello Eleonore wrote: "My anecdote was in response to Rasa, to highlight that there are multiple perspectives and modalities for cultural appropriation (and rejection)". With this war, we have landed in the situation, where its not anymore that easy to play with "multiple perspectives and modalities" before the ground is not clear and stable enough, before we are not on the same page.. I wrote already, in this situation there are only clearly two sides - either supporting Ukraine or being pro-Putin, there doesn't exist democratic "multiple perspectives and modalities" in this case as we don't deal with democratic country... And your anecdote just shows that there are many misleading ideas around.. this is what I wrote in my reply to Heath: the problem is that most of the marxist-communist-thinking people in the West (who have read bit too much of French and Russian philosophy or literature) today have to revise their theories, notions and realise finally they have been following the wrong dreams (nightmares, trust me...). So it's now your turn, dear people living in UK, and other wealthy Western countries, to put some effort in changing your thinking, your perspectives, and before joining the funny May day parades, and reading 100 years old authors (who have no clue how the communism works in real life), or listen 92 years old capitalism critics (such as Chomsky) please re-think twice before you write something that naive as comparing America's Disney's land "propaganda" with Russia's aggressive invasion targeting civilians, killing children, raping women in Ukraine, which is happening there everyday. So why not, please do so - change your way of thinking, finally! Please be so empathetic that you at least pretend to do so - for a sake of Ukraine's disaster... We, people here in Eastern Europe are used to switch our perspectives constantly, we have done it so many times that we now even cannot answer a simple question: "and how is your tradition (e.g. in Latvia) with the education, for example?" I am sorry, there is no such thing as "our way or our tradition!" we have been listening for almost 30 years British experts, we have learned from the most amazing Finnish school experience, and we have adapted exams from German "abitur", we have been trying hard, and still are one of the most poor countries in EU, BUT - I wouldn't call it "colonising", and never ever would even think of going back to anything similar that was once called "the Soviet Union" - NB! btw- there never was such a thing as USSR, it was just an extended Russia'n Empire with unfairly and aggressively occupied neighbouring countries before and during WW2, who were forced to believe that Russians have "saved and freed us" and that "they brought the real culture" (making us feel lesser), but they didn't succeed, nobody inside of USSR believed in this bullshit... Just sadly I never realized that the communist propaganda was so effective beyond the USSR border, that some people in West and otehr parts of the world truly believed that USSR may be a better alternative to Western capitalism... But talking about the "Soviet times", there was even big difference between Ryszard's and mine childhood, because Ryszard lived in Poland, but I lived in Soviet Latvia, which was a part of USSR, and this was such a big difference that for some time I even didn't realize that Poland, Yugoslavia, Chechoslovakia etc. belonged to the so called "soviet" block, because for us at USSR (with completely cut any information or culture coming from the West) - even Poland seemed like beautiful and shiny country "abroad", where everything was much more better then in soviet uni. When I went to the school in 1970s, I had to participate in special military parade competitions every year couple of times; we were singing the hymn of Russia and the hymn of USSR, and when we won the competition in the school level - then we participated in the national level..., and singing all these songs (in Russian), marching, and shouting loud how much we love Lenin... while at the same time, we all - everybody of us: starting from the 1st grade children to the director of the school knew that all this are the lies, the total bullshit, but we were not allowed to question anything of that, we just did it, as we had to. And if you ever asked something or initiated anything (because all things around which I saw in my childhood were so wrong, so dirty, so terrible, and grey...), you were shut up quickly as you gradually realized that nothing ever
Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responses
Hello Eleonore wrote: "My anecdote was in response to Rasa, to highlight that there are multiple perspectives and modalities for cultural appropriation (and rejection)". With this war, we have landed in the situation, where its not anymore that easy to play with "multiple perspectives and modalities" before the ground is not clear and stable enough, before we are not on the same page.. I wrote already, in this situation there are only clearly two sides - either supporting Ukraine or being pro-Putin, there doesn't exist democratic "multiple perspectives and modalities" in this case as we don't deal with democratic country... And your anecdote just shows that there are many misleading ideas around.. this is what I wrote in my reply to Heath: the problem is that most of the marxist-communist-thinking people in the West (who have read bit too much of French and Russian philosophy or literature) today have to revise their theories, notions and realise finally they have been following the wrong dreams (nightmares, trust me...). So it's now your turn, dear people living in UK, and other wealthy Western countries, to put some effort in changing your thinking, your perspectives, and before joining the funny May day parades, and reading 100 years old authors (who have no clue how the communism works in real life), or listen 92 years old capitalism critics (such as Chomsky) please re-think twice before you write something that naive as comparing America's Disney's land "propaganda" with Russia's aggressive invasion targeting civilians, killing children, raping women in Ukraine, which is happening there everyday. So why not, please do so - change your way of thinking, finally! Please be so empathetic that you at least pretend to do so - for a sake of Ukraine's disaster... We, people here in Eastern Europe are used to switch our perspectives constantly, we have done it so many times that we now even cannot answer a simple question: "and how is your tradition (e.g. in Latvia) with the education, for example?" I am sorry, there is no such thing as "our way or our tradition!" we have been listening for almost 30 years British experts, we have learned from the most amazing Finnish school experience, and we have adapted exams from German "abitur", we have been trying hard, and still are one of the most poor countries in EU, BUT - I wouldn't call it "colonising", and never ever would even think of going back to anything similar that was once called "the Soviet Union" - NB! btw- there never was such a thing as USSR, it was just an extended Russia'n Empire with unfairly and aggressively occupied neighbouring countries before and during WW2, who were forced to believe that Russians have "saved and freed us" and that "they brought the real culture" (making us feel lesser), but they didn't succeed, nobody inside of USSR believed in this bullshit... Just sadly I never realized that the communist propaganda was so effective beyond the USSR border, that some people in West and otehr parts of the world truly believed that USSR may be a better alternative to Western capitalism... But talking about the "Soviet times", there was even big difference between Ryszard's and mine childhood, because Ryszard lived in Poland, but I lived in Soviet Latvia, which was a part of USSR, and this was such a big difference that for some time I even didn't realize that Poland, Yugoslavia, Chechoslovakia etc. belonged to the so called "soviet" block, because for us at USSR (with completely cut any information or culture coming from the West) - even Poland seemed like beautiful and shiny country "abroad", where everything was much more better then in soviet uni. When I went to the school in 1970s, I had to participate in special military parade competitions every year couple of times; we were singing the hymn of Russia and the hymn of USSR, and when we won the competition in the school level - then we participated in the national level..., and singing all these songs (in Russian), marching, and shouting loud how much we love Lenin... while at the same time, we all - everybody of us: starting from the 1st grade children to the director of the school knew that all this are the lies, the total bullshit, but we were not allowed to question anything of that, we just did it, as we had to. And if you ever asked something or initiated anything (because all things around which I saw in my childhood were so wrong, so dirty, so terrible, and grey...), you were shut up quickly as you gradually realized that nothing ever can be done, neither achieved, nor succeded... the holes on the roads would never get repaired, the light in your corridor if once broken, would never get fixed either, your staircase in communal house of course was never cleaned, in the shops was only the seller herself, as nothing was available (e.g. from drinks - only birch juice, sweet with sugar, in 3l jars, from veget
Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responses
Hello Ryszard, Thanks for your email, and for sharing your view and experience. I'd clarify here: my childhood desire was towards the unknown, that which was not described, as no one was telling us what was really going on in Russia, all we had was the fake American dream (which included the commodification of female bodies) and literature from the past. I am also aware that I was very lucky and privileged growing up in a house full of any sorts of books, also having access to many libraries. My anecdote was in response to Rasa, to highlight that there are multiple perspectives and modalities for cultural appropriation (and rejection). I am not disputing what was better or worse, or whose childhood was happier. The idea was to acknowledge that also in the West some had a curiosity or a wish that that which was not the status quo could be better than the real they had to experience. And I am not at all saying that being under Russian influence is in any way a good thing, I am simply saying that the game at stake is a power game, it is unfortunately not about anyone's freedom, or better interest, but profit. I am sorry if my email was unclear and you had the impression I was trying to decide where to move to, it couldn't be further away from what I was trying to express. Best wishes Eleonora X, PhD. On 2022-07-17 21:47, Ryszard Kluszczyński wrote: Dear Eleonora, let me quote you: "During my childhood, in Milan in the 80s, I had an opposite experience than yours: my country had been culturally colonised by the US (cinema TV clothing etc), and they did think they were better. Most people did not notice at all they were colonised, because they had been brainwashed. As I happened to dislike American cinema and Disney's total animation, but I did read a lot of Italian and French and Russian literature and philosophy, I must say it did happen to me during my childhood to wish I was in the Soviet Union instead, hoping that that would be a better alternative from the dumb hypnotic imperialism that had subsumed my contemporaries." During my childhood in Poland in the 60s, I was not so happy as you in the 80s. You could have decided what to read. The Soviet-Russian censorships deprived me of such possibilities. You were happy to avoid the experioence what it really means to live in the colonised country, colonised society. But it doesn't mean you should not try to imagine and understand what it is really. Anyway you can try to realise your desire from your childhood. You can move to Russia to become the resident. But resident not just visitor. I understand if you don't decide to do it. A French famous film actor who did it once (to avoid paying taxes in France) is already back as I heard. Good luck whatever you decide to do Ryszard .. Prof. Ryszard W. Kluszczynski, PhD. Chair of Department of New Media and Digital Culture University of Lodz 171/173 Pomorska Street 90-236 Lodz Poland tel +426655133 On 17 Jul 2022, at 18:00, xname wrote: During my childhood, in Milan in the 80s, I had an opposite experience than yours: my country had been culturally colonised by the US (cinema TV clothing etc), and they did think they were better. Most people did not notice at all they were colonised, because they had been brainwashed. As I happened to dislike American cinema and Disney's total animation, but I did read a lot of Italian and French and Russian literature and philosophy, I must say it did happen to me during my childhood to wish I was in the Soviet Union instead, hoping that that would be a better alternative from the dumb hypnotic imperialism that had subsumed my contemporaries. -- phantasmata and illusions @oracle666 http://xname.cc__ SPECTRE list for media culture in Deep Europe Info, archive and help: http://post.in-mind.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/spectre
Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responses
Dear Rasa, Thanks for sharing, and I send you all blessings from London. The way I read Heats' questions is different, as imho it is always good to know who is funding a project and whether those involved as somewhat "objects" of the publication have the tools (ie can read the story) to participate in the discussion. It is also fair to remember that the Netherlands has a certain reputation of having journalists thrilled to get involved and enunciate sentences about "other people's wars" (possibly moved by the kick in adrenaline to temporarily forget their lingering depressive boredom, eventually stemming from a Ritalin infused society...). This isn't obviously about Geert but the general tendency of a small privileged society who gives itself credits to comment on other people's non privileged societies from shiny institutes with ergonomic chairs and fast bandwidth, eventually staring at the ducks swimming through large windows facing the canal. But this is also a partial story infected of stereotypes. Because the discussion is of course much more complex. Every time there is a war, there is someone, some "parts", that are making money because of the world. Big money. There is also another reality: the function of weapons is to kill and make war. If you add weapons to the table, you'll increase the "phase space" of a war. By no means increasing weapons diminishes war. Such weapons have also another function, that of making a few rich. It is numerical. These are simple facts, not judgment, not theory. During my childhood, in Milan in the 80s, I had an opposite experience than yours: my country had been culturally colonised by the US (cinema TV clothing etc), and they did think they were better. Most people did not notice at all they were colonised, because they had been brainwashed. As I happened to dislike American cinema and Disney's total animation, but I did read a lot of Italian and French and Russian literature and philosophy, I must say it did happen to me during my childhood to wish I was in the Soviet Union instead, hoping that that would be a better alternative from the dumb hypnotic imperialism that had subsumed my contemporaries. Saying that Biden and the United States are worried about "freedom" and the freedom of Ukraine, makes me grimly grin. First of all, the US has done the same several times, for example when it invaded Afganistan. Where they fighting for peace? Secondly, NATO's incessant expansion was clearly tilting any possible balance, or that which was left and gave stability during the cold war, the binomial function that divided the world but somehow also kept it together. And you know what happens when you have a dickhead on the one hand, and another dickhead on the other: things suddenly crack! Especially if these two dickheads who are toying with the future of the world basically don't care about the future at all because they are old and they shall retire rather than approach international politics without any logic or fear because there is nothing better than a great big final collective showdown, rather than a slow lonely end in the countryside. But there is more: as much as making more weapons is not obviously going to stop the war, there is also a linguistic issue at play, or better a semiotic one. This war has reintroduced the cult for words such as courage, nation, heroism, all masculine virtues connected to patriotism. But, personally, I don't believe in national identity, I don't want borders, I don't care about patriotism, I despise it. And maybe there are some women in Ukraine who think so too. But ultimately it is all very sad and I don't have any answers, I am just as confused by the many viewpoints, and of course it is great that the Dutch are using some of their funding to make a well designed English publication in homage to the people who are dying - and perhaps they are also trying to make some theory about what's happening, but I did wonder where the money was coming from too as sometimes oppressors (or weapons producers) hire and finance their own opposition, that happens all the time, so instead of having someone against them, the opponents become their employees, it's a brilliant strategy wildly used in the UK too to make things appear as if they had a broad critical spectrum, as if there was freedom of speech. So, if I was Geert, I'd have just shared the info immediately rather than reacting in a defensive tone. In the end, I don't speak Russian, altho I did try to study it when I was in primary school, and it took a long time to find a book as there was no manual, no books, no recordings, nothing. But I did learn the alphabet and the first word I looked up, which stayed with me forever, was мир -/mir/, PEACE. My 2 cents Eleonora PS Paolo Fabbri, my professor of semiotics, used to say that 'peace' is an active process, which requires more energy and force because it has to b
Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responses
El 2022-07-17 11:30, i...@madatac.es escribió: Bravo Rasa, Perfectly expressed the real face and objectives of Ruscism. Russia, the greatest terrorist country of this world, accuses Ukraine of an "act of terrorism" after their destruction of a Russian ammunition depot in Nova Kakhovka... but they do not stop bombing civilian and medical facilities in Ukraine. Actually, only the lack of mental clarity, due to their known alcoholism, and their extreme wickedness, cruelty and cynicism, makes Russia leaders react in this way, as they see how they are not only losing the war but losing thousands of soldiers and weapons each day, an inconceivable reality that make them shout like the typical neighborhood thug ,finally beaten up by the neighbors. The defeat of Russian fascism by democratic Ukraine will change the course of history and allow us to get rid of an inhuman form of country and state. Remember and don't forget, there is still a genocidal war against the civilian population of Ukraine that has wiped from the Russian society any hint of civilization, an ethnic and cultural cleansing carried out by the inhuman criminal Russian terrorist state. Slava Ukraini, Slava Heroiam! Dmytro Kuleba, Foreign Minister of Ukraine: "The Russian people share the responsibility for the crimes that Putin is committing." Iury El 2022-07-17 10:57, Rasa Smite escribió: heath I am sorry, but your messages don't make any sense, they are full of "jumbled thoughts", or may be my English is not sophisticated enough but I don't get your point, may I make it bit more clear here - that since the Feb 24, 2022 (war in Ukraine started) there are basically only two sides - either you support Ukraine's fight to get free from Russia's occupants, or you accept that Putin's Russia can go on and take the dominance, continuing to use their worst and most cynical war methods against civilians in Ukraine - now, and later in other countries.. (they will never stop, as they never have enough - not only many experts say so, but also my personal experience - of living my first 20 years in my life in Russia's occupied Latvia). there is no other third way, as this is not a democratic country we deal with, it's based on lies, it always was, and these lies are very different ones than those in your 'bad' capitalist countries, because they are really dangerous, 'imperialistic' (as you say) and chauvinistic, they make other nations they occupy lesser than them, and make other world to believe their 'cultures' are bigger and better, while our (other Eastern European, and former occupied countries) voices then have always been shut up, you were used to call us "rusophobs", which is totally not the case and never was, many of my best friends are Russians. can we not leave nation states to fight it out between themselves ? of course not! the 'nice' Western people already for too long have accepted Russia's Kremlin propaganda and their hybrid media wars as in Baltics, never taking too seriously, and again calling us Rusophobes, Western countries were always shutting us up when our governments gave the serious warnings in various (especially recent ones) European meetings. so either you listen bit more carefully what the other nations who have been under long occupation think of the war in Ukraine and Russia as country, or you can try yourself to visit Russia and try to figure out what the 140 million people there really think.. or, move to Latvia, if you really want to understand and personally experience how does it feel to live just 200 km from the border of the big threatening country, who already occupied us once. it is here very different feeling to be here - as Latvia (which is rather poor country) is hosting 40 000 refugees from Ukraine, where my friends are delivering jeep cars privately to the Ukraine to help them (while other pacifistic Western European countries deny or delay their military support), and we do this because at least 30% by official statistics believe that we will be next... (sooner or later). so any, even the most tiniest expression or sign of a help or support such as an art residency or writing activist project, supporting Ukrainian position is worth it, because it is a simply a humanistic act, so much needed, as their hearts and lives are broken no matter if they have escaped, but they are aware of that in their country Russian militarists continue to kill and rape... so while pacifism has long way to be achieved, there are humans and their lives that need any support or a sign of any solidarity now... any critical skepticism towards those who do something is the least needed. Jaanis sent you great sources, you better read them first before questioning, if they are trustful enough for you. and last but not least, I also can share my own 'jumbled thoughts' by referring to Manovich's post in FB, when he said that please consider that many people (especially young ones) in Russia would prefer to
Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responses
Is Ukraine the Ukrainian population?If Ukraine (or the Ukrainian population) wants to continue fighting, I am the last to comment on it. They will pay a blood roll of around 100-200 deaths a day. And that over the next 1-2 years. With or without weapons from the West. I don't think the war can be won for Ukraine, in the sense that the Russians are thrown out of the Krim and from the Donbass.You, Ryszard have to understand that Ukraine not only suffers from Putin's criminal regim, but is dependent on the same extent of America and its willingness to deliver weapons or willingness to talk.with Putin. Christoph Ryszard Kluszczyński schrieb: Christoph, you should rather not speak on behalf of Ukraine, it’s quite ridiculous. You even misspell the name of the Ukrainian region you talk about. We, citizens of the countries in this part of Europe, too often heard voices like yours saying what we should do for our own sake. In the situation when Finland is part of NATO treaty, the eventual membership of Ukraine is not significant anymore. The war is not about this. And has never been. And this is not we to end the war. Ukraine wants to do it but the conditions must be defined by them, not “us”. Our countries and we - and you too - just have to help Ukrainiens to get to the situation when they could negotiate the peace with Russia. They need just weapons to get to this point not good advices. Ukraine is an independent country. Do you remember? And Ukrainiens have the right to decide what is good for them. Take care Ryszard …... Prof. Ryszard W. Kluszczynski, PhD. Chair of Department of New Media and Digital Culture University of Lodz 171/173 Pomorska Street 90-236 Lodz Poland tel +426655133 On 17 Jul 2022, at 12:28, christoph theiler wrote: Without the Americans there will be no peace in Ukraine. It may be that the Russian administration lies, you can hardly trust them etc., but the American administration is not lying, it refuses to speak to the Russians since Obama. Obama also managed to humiliate the Russians as a "provincial state". Biden is not better here either. The last American president who spoke to Putin was the "much hated" Trump. The Russians can not agree to NATO membership of Ukraine, just as the Americans cannot agree with Russian weapons in Cuba or the connection of the Solomon Islands to China. So there is at least 3 parties beyond a moral classification in this conflict: the American, the Ukrainian and the Russian. The European side is too negligible here, because this is forced to fully integrate the American wishes. In the discussion, it is dishonest to ask now: "On which side are you?", Or to interture the subintellectual calculation: "Do you really want the Russians to kill even more children?" This is not a level. The only question that needs to be solved is: "How and under what conditions do we end the war. Or: How and under what objectives or consequences should the war continue?" There are really two sides here now. I personally am for a quick war ending; The conditions that Ukraine would have to bear here in my opinion would be the constant loss of the Krim, a transition status of the Dombas, permanent neutrality of Ukraine. Anyone who chooses the other option accepts that Ukraine is fighting until it is bled. Then there is also peace. This war could take 1-2 years. Christoph wechselstrom Rasa Smite schrieb: heath I am sorry, but your messages don't make any sense, they are full of "jumbled thoughts", or may be my English is not sophisticated enough but I don't get your point, may I make it bit more clear here - that since the Feb 24, 2022 (war in Ukraine started) there are basically only two sides - either you support Ukraine's fight to get free from Russia's occupants, or you accept that Putin's Russia can go on and take the dominance, continuing to use their worst and most cynical war methods against civilians in Ukraine - now, and later in other countries.. (they will never stop, as they never have enough - not only many experts say so, but also my personal experience - of living my first 20 years in my life in Russia's occupied Latvia). there is no other third way, as this is not a democratic country we deal with, it's based on lies, it always was, and these lies are very different ones than those in your 'bad' capitalist countries, because they are really dangerous, 'imperialistic' (as you say) and chauvinistic, they make other nations they occupy lesser than them, and make other world to believe their 'cultures' are bigger and better, while our (other Eastern European, and former occupied countries) voices then have always been shut up, you were used to call us "rusophobs", which is totally not the case and never was, many of my best friends are Russians. can we not leave nation states to fight it out between themselves ? of course not! the 'nice' Western people already for too long have accepte
Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responses
rasa i think its worth drawing a distinction between the soviet union and the russian federation both politically and historically i understand that living next to russia after years of occupation by the soviet union is very different to living in the uk i don't believe russia has any intention to invade latvia unless latvian ethnic russians are systematically killed by latvian nazis and nato constructs a network of offences bio-war labs along the lv/ru border its important to not allow our past traumas to be exploited by foreign agents lithuanian seems likely to be the first baltic country to be attacked given its very provocative blockade of kalingrad hope all is well heath On Sun, 17 Jul 2022, Rasa Smite wrote: heath I am sorry, but your messages don't make any sense, they are full of "jumbled thoughts", or may be my English is not sophisticated enough but I don't get your point, may I make it bit more clear here - that since the Feb 24, 2022 (war in Ukraine started) there are basically only two sides - either you support Ukraine's fight to get free from Russia's occupants, or you accept that Putin's Russia can go on and take the dominance, continuing to use their worst and most cynical war methods against civilians in Ukraine - now, and later in other countries.. (they will never stop, as they never have enough - not only many experts say so, but also my personal experience - of living my first 20 years in my life in Russia's occupied Latvia). there is no other third way, as this is not a democratic country we deal with, it's based on lies, it always was, and these lies are very different ones than those in your 'bad' capitalist countries, because they are really dangerous, 'imperialistic' (as you say) and chauvinistic, they make other nations they occupy lesser than them, and make other world to believe their 'cultures' are bigger and better, while our (other Eastern European, and former occupied countries) voices then have always been shut up, you were used to call us "rusophobs", which is totally not the case and never was, many of my best friends are Russians. can we not leave nation states to fight it out between themselves ? of course not! the 'nice' Western people already for too long have accepted Russia's Kremlin propaganda and their hybrid media wars as in Baltics, never taking too seriously, and again calling us Rusophobes, Western countries were always shutting us up when our governments gave the serious warnings in various (especially recent ones) European meetings. so either you listen bit more carefully what the other nations who have been under long occupation think of the war in Ukraine and Russia as country, or you can try yourself to visit Russia and try to figure out what the 140 million people there really think.. or, move to Latvia, if you really want to understand and personally experience how does it feel to live just 200 km from the border of the big threatening country, who already occupied us once. it is here very different feeling to be here - as Latvia (which is rather poor country) is hosting 40 000 refugees from Ukraine, where my friends are delivering jeep cars privately to the Ukraine to help them (while other pacifistic Western European countries deny or delay their military support), and we do this because at least 30% by official statistics believe that we will be next... (sooner or later). so any, even the most tiniest expression or sign of a help or support such as an art residency or writing activist project, supporting Ukrainian position is worth it, because it is a simply a humanistic act, so much needed, as their hearts and lives are broken no matter if they have escaped, but they are aware of that in their country Russian militarists continue to kill and rape... so while pacifism has long way to be achieved, there are humans and their lives that need any support or a sign of any solidarity now... any critical skepticism towards those who do something is the least needed. Jaanis sent you great sources, you better read them first before questioning, if they are trustful enough for you. and last but not least, I also can share my own 'jumbled thoughts' by referring to Manovich's post in FB, when he said that please consider that many people (especially young ones) in Russia would prefer to live in your "rotten" capitalist system. So am I, as I have experienced both - communist and capitalist governments. And here I am largely suspicious about your pacifistic ideas, as well as other UK's May 1st Day activist ambivalent intents (how I call them - marxists with Porsche): may be you simply don't want countries like Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, etc. to share with your capitalist "goods" and people achieving just to live their normal lives? best Rasa On 16/07/2022 14:49, heath bunting wrote: jaanis thanks for links - will take a look - not hopeful for making good decisio
Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responses
Without the Americans there will be no peace in Ukraine. It may be that the Russian administration lies, you can hardly trust them etc., but the American administration is not lying, it refuses to speak to the Russians since Obama. Obama also managed to humiliate the Russians as a "provincial state". Biden is not better here either. The last American president who spoke to Putin was the "much hated" Trump. The Russians can not agree to NATO membership of Ukraine, just as the Americans cannot agree with Russian weapons in Cuba or the connection of the Solomon Islands to China. So there is at least 3 parties beyond a moral classification in this conflict: the American, the Ukrainian and the Russian. The European side is too negligible here, because this is forced to fully integrate the American wishes. In the discussion, it is dishonest to ask now: "On which side are you?", Or to interture the subintellectual calculation: "Do you really want the Russians to kill even more children?" This is not a level. The only question that needs to be solved is: "How and under what conditions do we end the war. Or: How and under what objectives or consequences should the war continue?" There are really two sides here now. I personally am for a quick war ending; The conditions that Ukraine would have to bear here in my opinion would be the constant loss of the Krim, a transition status of the Dombas, permanent neutrality of Ukraine. Anyone who chooses the other option accepts that Ukraine is fighting until it is bled. Then there is also peace. This war could take 1-2 years. Christoph wechselstrom Rasa Smite schrieb: heath I am sorry, but your messages don't make any sense, they are full of "jumbled thoughts", or may be my English is not sophisticated enough but I don't get your point, may I make it bit more clear here - that since the Feb 24, 2022 (war in Ukraine started) there are basically only two sides - either you support Ukraine's fight to get free from Russia's occupants, or you accept that Putin's Russia can go on and take the dominance, continuing to use their worst and most cynical war methods against civilians in Ukraine - now, and later in other countries.. (they will never stop, as they never have enough - not only many experts say so, but also my personal experience - of living my first 20 years in my life in Russia's occupied Latvia). there is no other third way, as this is not a democratic country we deal with, it's based on lies, it always was, and these lies are very different ones than those in your 'bad' capitalist countries, because they are really dangerous, 'imperialistic' (as you say) and chauvinistic, they make other nations they occupy lesser than them, and make other world to believe their 'cultures' are bigger and better, while our (other Eastern European, and former occupied countries) voices then have always been shut up, you were used to call us "rusophobs", which is totally not the case and never was, many of my best friends are Russians. > can we not leave nation states to fight it out between themselves ? of course not! the 'nice' Western people already for too long have accepted Russia's Kremlin propaganda and their hybrid media wars as in Baltics, never taking too seriously, and again calling us Rusophobes, Western countries were always shutting us up when our governments gave the serious warnings in various (especially recent ones) European meetings. so either you listen bit more carefully what the other nations who have been under long occupation think of the war in Ukraine and Russia as country, or you can try yourself to visit Russia and try to figure out what the 140 million people there really think.. or, move to Latvia, if you really want to understand and personally experience how does it feel to live just 200 km from the border of the big threatening country, who already occupied us once. it is here very different feeling to be here - as Latvia (which is rather poor country) is hosting 40 000 refugees from Ukraine, where my friends are delivering jeep cars privately to the Ukraine to help them (while other pacifistic Western European countries deny or delay their military support), and we do this because at least 30% by official statistics believe that we will be next... (sooner or later). so any, even the most tiniest expression or sign of a help or support such as an art residency or writing activist project, supporting Ukrainian position is worth it, because it is a simply a humanistic act, so much needed, as their hearts and lives are broken no matter if they have escaped, but they are aware of that in their country Russian militarists continue to kill and rape... so while pacifism has long way to be achieved, there are humans and their lives that need any support or a sign of any solidarity now... any critical skepticism towards those who do something is the least needed. Jaanis s
Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responses
heath I am sorry, but your messages don't make any sense, they are full of "jumbled thoughts", or may be my English is not sophisticated enough but I don't get your point, may I make it bit more clear here - that since the Feb 24, 2022 (war in Ukraine started) there are basically only two sides - either you support Ukraine's fight to get free from Russia's occupants, or you accept that Putin's Russia can go on and take the dominance, continuing to use their worst and most cynical war methods against civilians in Ukraine - now, and later in other countries.. (they will never stop, as they never have enough - not only many experts say so, but also my personal experience - of living my first 20 years in my life in Russia's occupied Latvia). there is no other third way, as this is not a democratic country we deal with, it's based on lies, it always was, and these lies are very different ones than those in your 'bad' capitalist countries, because they are really dangerous, 'imperialistic' (as you say) and chauvinistic, they make other nations they occupy lesser than them, and make other world to believe their 'cultures' are bigger and better, while our (other Eastern European, and former occupied countries) voices then have always been shut up, you were used to call us "rusophobs", which is totally not the case and never was, many of my best friends are Russians. > can we not leave nation states to fight it out between themselves ? of course not! the 'nice' Western people already for too long have accepted Russia's Kremlin propaganda and their hybrid media wars as in Baltics, never taking too seriously, and again calling us Rusophobes, Western countries were always shutting us up when our governments gave the serious warnings in various (especially recent ones) European meetings. so either you listen bit more carefully what the other nations who have been under long occupation think of the war in Ukraine and Russia as country, or you can try yourself to visit Russia and try to figure out what the 140 million people there really think.. or, move to Latvia, if you really want to understand and personally experience how does it feel to live just 200 km from the border of the big threatening country, who already occupied us once. it is here very different feeling to be here - as Latvia (which is rather poor country) is hosting 40 000 refugees from Ukraine, where my friends are delivering jeep cars privately to the Ukraine to help them (while other pacifistic Western European countries deny or delay their military support), and we do this because at least 30% by official statistics believe that we will be next... (sooner or later). so any, even the most tiniest expression or sign of a help or support such as an art residency or writing activist project, supporting Ukrainian position is worth it, because it is a simply a humanistic act, so much needed, as their hearts and lives are broken no matter if they have escaped, but they are aware of that in their country Russian militarists continue to kill and rape... so while pacifism has long way to be achieved, there are humans and their lives that need any support or a sign of any solidarity now... any critical skepticism towards those who do something is the least needed. Jaanis sent you great sources, you better read them first before questioning, if they are trustful enough for you. and last but not least, I also can share my own 'jumbled thoughts' by referring to Manovich's post in FB, when he said that please consider that many people (especially young ones) in Russia would prefer to live in your "rotten" capitalist system. So am I, as I have experienced both - communist and capitalist governments. And here I am largely suspicious about your pacifistic ideas, as well as other UK's May 1st Day activist ambivalent intents (how I call them - marxists with Porsche): may be you simply don't want countries like Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, etc. to share with your capitalist "goods" and people achieving just to live their normal lives? best Rasa On 16/07/2022 14:49, heath bunting wrote: jaanis thanks for links - will take a look - not hopeful for making good decision on these though, as it takes years of careful scrutiny to determine whether sources are reliable and not mouthpieces for in-tell agencies why does russian state propaganda matter to grass roots activists ? i would have thought super-state propaganda vs sub-state propaganda is more relevant can we not leave nation states to fight it out between themselves ? overwhelming evidence suggestions that unlawful trans-national entities such as empires (united state of america empire: USAE) are a greater threat to individuals/ humanity than lawfully constituted nation states what's more of a threat to peace ? 1000 foreign USAE military bases or 2 russian foreign military bases ? hope all is well heath On Sat, 16 Jul 2022, j
Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responses
jaanis thanks for links - will take a look - not hopeful for making good decision on these though, as it takes years of careful scrutiny to determine whether sources are reliable and not mouthpieces for in-tell agencies why does russian state propaganda matter to grass roots activists ? i would have thought super-state propaganda vs sub-state propaganda is more relevant can we not leave nation states to fight it out between themselves ? overwhelming evidence suggestions that unlawful trans-national entities such as empires (united state of america empire: USAE) are a greater threat to individuals/ humanity than lawfully constituted nation states what's more of a threat to peace ? 1000 foreign USAE military bases or 2 russian foreign military bases ? hope all is well heath On Sat, 16 Jul 2022, j...@21.x-i.net wrote: Most of your questions about importance of fighting russian state propaganda can be answered by these expert resources: https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/03/08/meduza-is-granting-open-access-to-all-content-about-the-war-in-ukraine-under-a-creative-commons-license https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/07/12/meduza-is-hiring-a-social-media-editor-for-its-english-language-edition https://theconversation.com/russias-disappearing-independent-media-why-they-closed-178590 https://netzpolitik.org/2020/russian-disinformation-the-network-of-fake-foreign-media/ https://euvsdisinfo.eu/report/the-war-in-ukraine-is-about-the-reunification-of-the-russian-people2 The Russian neo-Nazis fighting Vladimir Putin’s war to ‘denazify’ Ukraine https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/07/15/dying-to-kill List of few independent resources in Russian.. https://www.youtube.com/c/Popularpolitics https://www.youtube.com/c/NevzorovTV https://www.youtube.com/c/FeyginLive https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzaqqlriSjVyc795m86GVyg https://www.youtube.com/c/Gordonua On 16/07/2022 11:03, heath bunting wrote: geert supporting Ukrainian media and confronting Russian state propaganda. these aims appear to be very aligned to imperial interests what do you mean by ukrainian media ? state/ corporate or grass roots ? why is it important to confront russian state propaganda ? who is at risk of this messaging ? __ SPECTRE list for media culture in Deep Europe Info, archive and help: http://post.in-mind.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/spectre __ SPECTRE list for media culture in Deep Europe Info, archive and help: http://post.in-mind.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/spectre
Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responses
jaanis I am curious, how is your command of russian, Heath - fortunately, i speak the language of the imperium fluently and live within a core imperial nation state, so have direct daily experience of super-state crimes against humanity i am not subjected to state blacklisting for work and social benefits by russia, syria, iran or china i have not been arrested, framed or censored by russian speakers the language of the enemy is english best to counter my argument and not my character - assuming you want peace and progress instead of war and destruction are you able to read medium-complex russian text without a computer translation, or follow a conversation (or TV interview,discussion) in russian - referring to your declared "honest interest in the war in ukraine"? regards heath __ SPECTRE list for media culture in Deep Europe Info, archive and help: http://post.in-mind.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/spectre
Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responses
Most of your questions about importance of fighting russian state propaganda can be answered by these expert resources: https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/03/08/meduza-is-granting-open-access-to-all-content-about-the-war-in-ukraine-under-a-creative-commons-license https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/07/12/meduza-is-hiring-a-social-media-editor-for-its-english-language-edition https://theconversation.com/russias-disappearing-independent-media-why-they-closed-178590 https://netzpolitik.org/2020/russian-disinformation-the-network-of-fake-foreign-media/ https://euvsdisinfo.eu/report/the-war-in-ukraine-is-about-the-reunification-of-the-russian-people2 The Russian neo-Nazis fighting Vladimir Putin’s war to ‘denazify’ Ukraine https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/07/15/dying-to-kill List of few independent resources in Russian.. https://www.youtube.com/c/Popularpolitics https://www.youtube.com/c/NevzorovTV https://www.youtube.com/c/FeyginLive https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzaqqlriSjVyc795m86GVyg https://www.youtube.com/c/Gordonua On 16/07/2022 11:03, heath bunting wrote: geert supporting Ukrainian media and confronting Russian state propaganda. these aims appear to be very aligned to imperial interests what do you mean by ukrainian media ? state/ corporate or grass roots ? why is it important to confront russian state propaganda ? who is at risk of this messaging ? __ SPECTRE list for media culture in Deep Europe Info, archive and help: http://post.in-mind.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/spectre
Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responses
geert supporting Ukrainian media and confronting Russian state propaganda. these aims appear to be very aligned to imperial interests what do you mean by ukrainian media ? state/ corporate or grass roots ? why is it important to confront russian state propaganda ? who is at risk of this messaging ? in a plural media environment, propaganda is irrelevant - it only becomes potent in an environment of corporate/ state control and censorship - in an info-war so i am assuming you believe peoples in zones of control/ censorship are vulnerable to russian state propaganda eg: ukraine and the west does your project have a wider scope than defending the ukrainian and the western imperium control narrative ? for example, do people in the global south need defending from russian state propaganda, or is it just imperial elite requiring defence from their awakening domestic populations ? countering russian state propaganda does not seem to be a priority for grass roots activists, but certainly is for the western elite hope all is well heath __ SPECTRE list for media culture in Deep Europe Info, archive and help: http://post.in-mind.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/spectre
Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responses
I am curious, how is your command of russian, Heath - are you able to read medium-complex russian text without a computer translation, or follow a conversation (or TV interview,discussion) in russian - referring to your declared "honest interest in the war in ukraine"? J. On 16/07/2022 09:25, heath bunting wrote: geert sounds a bit like a criminal investigation, heath. any honest interest in the war in ukraine will sound like a criminal investigation as imperialism is a supreme crime against humanity of a bad or lazy detective, in this case. i am assuming from your project you are trying to keep violence to a minimum - in this case linguistic violence __ SPECTRE list for media culture in Deep Europe Info, archive and help: http://post.in-mind.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/spectre
Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responses
geert sounds a bit like a criminal investigation, heath. any honest interest in the war in ukraine will sound like a criminal investigation as imperialism is a supreme crime against humanity of a bad or lazy detective, in this case. i am assuming from your project you are trying to keep violence to a minimum - in this case linguistic violence you could have found out the answers yourself. i am not content to remain a sole passive silent researcher when provoked by messaging seemingly aligned to imperial interests being disseminated in a progressive cultural forum who are the funders of this project (any non-aligned countries) ? since 2004 our INC is part of the Amsterdam University of Applied Science, a polytech, called HvA. the production itself does not cost money as it is not printed. the labour costs have already been paid. however, the faculty did support the tactical media room to pay for a coordinator and an intern from the region for three months. when you say region, do you mean Ukraine ? or are you messaging an understanding that this is a proxy war with global participants ? are ukrainian citizens (not 'shocked' but liberated) from the donbas region including in this project ? we do not ask where they come from. knowing which side of the civil/ imperial proxy war messaging originates from is of great importance we do not work for the police. to be clear, which police do you not work for ? 1. dutch civil police 2. dutch military intelligence 3. imperial military intelligence both editors and contributors are from the region as you can see in the biographies. what is your definition of 'the region' ? is this interchangeable with 'Ukraine' or does it include NATO territories as-well the meetings of the coalition are visited by both ukrainians and russians. are you talking about russian citizens or ukrainian citizens when you use the word 'Russians' calling ukrainian citizens 'Russians' sounds like an ukrainian ultra-nationalist statement or do you mean russian citizens as-well as other nation state citizens visited the meetings ? is this publication available to russian speaking ukrainian citizens or is the russian language banned in his publication as-well as in ukraine ? no, not yet. "About a third of Ukrainians have named Russian as their mother tongue — in the last census, in 2001, and in more recent surveys — and the majority of Ukrainians say they speak it." language is important - especially when it is banned by neo-nazis regards heath__ SPECTRE list for media culture in Deep Europe Info, archive and help: http://post.in-mind.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/spectre
Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responses
sounds a bit like a criminal investigation, heath. of a bad or lazy detective, in this case. you could have found out the answers yourself. > who are the funders of this project (any non-aligned countries) ? since 2004 our INC is part of the Amsterdam University of Applied Science, a polytech, called HvA. the production itself does not cost money as it is not printed. the labour costs have already been paid. however, the faculty did support the tactical media room to pay for a coordinator and an intern from the region for three months. > are ukrainian citizens (not 'shocked' but liberated) from the donbas region > including in this project ? we do not ask where they come from. we do not work for the police. both editors and contributors are from the region as you can see in the biographies. the meetings of the coalition are visited by both ukrainians and russians. > is this publication available to russian speaking ukrainian citizens or > is the russian language banned in his publication as-well as in ukraine ? no, not yet. yours, geert __ SPECTRE list for media culture in Deep Europe Info, archive and help: http://post.in-mind.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/spectre
Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responses
Very good questions!! Sent from the street http://xname.cc Original message From: heath bunting Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2022, 3:21 pmTo: Geert Lovink Cc: spectre Subject: Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responsesgeertwho are the funders of this project (any non-aligned countries) ?are ukrainian citizens (not 'shocked' but liberated) from the donbas region including in this project ?is this publication available to russian speaking ukrainian citizens oris the russian language banned in his publication as-well as in ukraine ?regardsheathOn Fri, 15 Jul 2022, Geert Lovink wrote:> > Theory on Demand #44> Dispatches from Ukraine:> Tactical Media Reflections and Responses> > edited by Maria van der Togt and 1 &23%#719> > This publication marks the first results of the Tactical Media Room Ukraine project, launched in> February 2022 in Amsterdam after the shocking Russian full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Tactical Media> Room is a network of activists, journalists, scholars, and artists linked by the exchange of ideas> and practices—all aimed at supporting Ukrainian media and confronting Russian state propaganda.> Together, the network of experts initiated a screening and a series of meetings that took place> mainly in Amsterdam. Based on these meetings, Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflections and> Responses showcases initiatives, critique, and essays that provide insights into the ways information> circulates in time of war.> > This edition also aims at overcoming the Eurocentric approach through inviting Ukrainian journalists,> artists, and thinkers to share their observations and personal experience of living through war in> the digital age. It allows the collected reflections to be grounded and situated within the certain> context of Ukrainian, Belarusian and Russian long-lasting conflicts. While on the one hand,> perspectives on info-war and the array of urgents matters at a distance are presented, on the other> hand, this publication also focuses on what is missing from outside of the war-zones.> > Contributors> Elmaz Asan, Franco ‘Bifo’ Berardi, Andrii Dostliev, Lia Dostlieva, Olexii Kuchanskyi, Karyna Lazaruk,> Geert Lovink, Lera Malchenko, Svitlana Matviyenko, Maria Plichta, Ellen Rutten, Sander Steffann, Marc> Tuters, Michał ‘rysiek’ Woźniak.> > Printed on Demand ISBN: 978-94-92302-86-1> > Contact> > Institute of Network Cultures> Email: i...@networkcultures.org> Web: http://www.networkcultures.org> > Order a copy or download this publication free of charge at http://networkcultures.org/publications.> > This publication is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial- NoDerivatives 4.0> International.> > Order a print copy HERE> Download the .pdf HERE> > > > >__SPECTRE list for media culture in Deep EuropeInfo, archive and help:http://post.in-mind.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/spectre__ SPECTRE list for media culture in Deep Europe Info, archive and help: http://post.in-mind.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/spectre
Re: [spectre] Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflflections and Responses
geert who are the funders of this project (any non-aligned countries) ? are ukrainian citizens (not 'shocked' but liberated) from the donbas region including in this project ? is this publication available to russian speaking ukrainian citizens or is the russian language banned in his publication as-well as in ukraine ? regards heath On Fri, 15 Jul 2022, Geert Lovink wrote: Theory on Demand #44 Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflections and Responses edited by Maria van der Togt and 1 &23%#719 This publication marks the first results of the Tactical Media Room Ukraine project, launched in February 2022 in Amsterdam after the shocking Russian full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Tactical Media Room is a network of activists, journalists, scholars, and artists linked by the exchange of ideas and practices—all aimed at supporting Ukrainian media and confronting Russian state propaganda. Together, the network of experts initiated a screening and a series of meetings that took place mainly in Amsterdam. Based on these meetings, Dispatches from Ukraine: Tactical Media Reflections and Responses showcases initiatives, critique, and essays that provide insights into the ways information circulates in time of war. This edition also aims at overcoming the Eurocentric approach through inviting Ukrainian journalists, artists, and thinkers to share their observations and personal experience of living through war in the digital age. It allows the collected reflections to be grounded and situated within the certain context of Ukrainian, Belarusian and Russian long-lasting conflicts. While on the one hand, perspectives on info-war and the array of urgents matters at a distance are presented, on the other hand, this publication also focuses on what is missing from outside of the war-zones. Contributors Elmaz Asan, Franco ‘Bifo’ Berardi, Andrii Dostliev, Lia Dostlieva, Olexii Kuchanskyi, Karyna Lazaruk, Geert Lovink, Lera Malchenko, Svitlana Matviyenko, Maria Plichta, Ellen Rutten, Sander Steffann, Marc Tuters, Michał ‘rysiek’ Woźniak. Printed on Demand ISBN: 978-94-92302-86-1 Contact Institute of Network Cultures Email: i...@networkcultures.org Web: http://www.networkcultures.org Order a copy or download this publication free of charge at http://networkcultures.org/publications. This publication is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial- NoDerivatives 4.0 International. Order a print copy HERE Download the .pdf HERE __ SPECTRE list for media culture in Deep Europe Info, archive and help: http://post.in-mind.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/spectre