- Original Message -
From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 5:35 PM
Subject: [biofuel] GM rethinks hydrogen fuel cells
No, but thanks for mentioning it. Pending learning more about it, I guess
I'd
group it
malcolm wrote:
Just the short term, polluting, climate changing, fuel depleting future I
assume? Not the long term sustainable future. I don't think we should be
supporting the former, even as an interim measure.
Maybe (?) --
Ford's Concept multifaceted SUV called the Model U according
So the PEM fuel cells range from 81% or 50% or 36 - 40 % at full load.
Any of you EV or H2 folks familiar with --
Safe Hydrogen Storage Solution May Enable
Earlier Shift to Fuel-Cell Powered Autos
Safe Hydrogen storage technology provides hydrogen to a car with a fuel
tank only about
- Original Message -
From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [evworld] Re: [biofuel] GM rethinks hydrogen fuel cells
Hakan Falk wrote:
Hi MM,
The number they give for hydrogen is 10%, you get
malcolm.scott wrote:
Could you give us a reference for that 80% too. I don't study the subject
but from what I've read you'd be lucky to get that 80% even with heat
recovery.
Malcolm
I should know better than to state something without checking facts! The
80% figure was one I
murdoch wrote:
I'm a little confused. I thought that GM has announced having to turn
to Toyota for hybrid technology to bring these hybrids out. But in
this USA Today presentation, no mention seems to be made of that, and
at the end GM comes off as some sort of supposed innovator in the
What are you guys talking about?
There is no energy conversion that I'm aware that adds energy out of
nowhere (i.e., that violates the laws of physics as they are presently
discussed). Maybe your use of the word gain is meant to be
something different?
I took Hakan's .25% figure to be hard to
Hi MM,
The number they give for hydrogen is 10%, you get 100 and put in
90 in the electrolyses. This is a single step process and if you
define efficiency as from well to wheel and use hydrogen as energy
source for process, you get 0.25% assuming fuel cells with 50%
efficiency. (Only need to
One of the things that might be confusing is
50% or 50 percent is written mathematically as 0.50
The web page,
entitled:Efficiency of Fuel Cells
subtitle: Fuel-Cell-Powered Electric Car
when doing the calculations;
80 percent - efficiency of the electric motor/inverter
x
Hakan Falk wrote:
Hi MM,
The number they give for hydrogen is 10%, you get 100 and put in
90 in the electrolyses. This is a single step process and if you
define efficiency as from well to wheel and use hydrogen as energy
source for process, you get 0.25% assuming fuel cells with 50%
Robert,
We see so much claims of numbers in producing hydrogen,
so we do not know what to believe. It is good, because it
might be a chance here. My point is really not the exact
numbers, this will be disclosed and more exact soon. It is
the stage of the technology. How I turn this issue, I can
Hi Robert, a couple of responses below
and sorry to others for not snipping but
I found it very difficult.
robert luis rabello wrote:
I think your figures are deflated. Hydrogen isn't ideal as an energy
carrier, but it isn't THAT bad! A kilogram of H2 (roughly equal to a gallon
of
MH wrote:
Hi Robert, a couple of responses below
and sorry to others for not snipping but
I found it very difficult.
Thank you for the link on H2 generating efficiency!
You're welcome! This has been a personal interest of mine since the Gemini
and
Apollo programs proved that
murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
The concept of grid-chargeable hybrids isn't mentioned but I think it is
on the minds of many activists. Once a hybrid owner has the chance to
drive on Electricity alone, he or she might well be interested in a pure
EV. At the least it allows
Hi MM
I'm a little confused. I thought that GM has announced having to turn
to Toyota for hybrid technology to bring these hybrids out. But in
this USA Today presentation, no mention seems to be made of that, and
at the end GM comes off as some sort of supposed innovator in the
field.
Yes,
Hello Darryl
Please pardon the snip, interesting stuff! But I just want to ask...
snip
(Still working toward my biodiesel-electric hybrid car as cashflow permits.)
Are you building it?
Best
Keith
Darryl McMahon 48 Tarquin Crescent,
Econogics, Inc. Nepean, Ontario K2H 8J8
I think that the success of Hydrogen, either via ICE or Fuel Cell will
entirely depend on public acceptance. The CNG technology has been out for
quite some time for home an puplic infructure use and it's acceptance is
marginal as far as alternative fuels go, mostly in fleets at best. What
will
Is Corbin actually selling Sparrows anymore? I thought they were moving
into their Merlin line completely (ie. ICE engine).
James Slayden
On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Darryl McMahon wrote:
murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
The concept of grid-chargeable hybrids isn't mentioned but I think it
James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] asked:
Is Corbin actually selling Sparrows anymore? I thought they were moving
into their Merlin line completely (ie. ICE engine).
According to their website at http://www.corbinmotors.com/products_sparrow1.html
they are taking orders for 2003 Sparrow 1's.
Success of hydrogen is going to depend on its energy net gain. The current
over all 0.25% through electrolyses, has only been improved with platinum
as catalyzer. If they find something, it can be improved with 3 to 4 times
and be better or as good as gasoline and diesel.
Hakan
At 08:59 AM
True. I just didn't put that in cause I was looking at a more acceptance
issue. But yes, until there is a net energy GAIN, there won't even be
large production, or it will be expensive; both cost and energy wise.
James Slayden
On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Hakan Falk wrote:
Success of hydrogen is
One of the problems (I think) associated with
liquid and electric vehicles is when comparing
energy derived at a given weight,
Lead acid battery___1x
Ethanol50x
E8580x
Gasoline_100x
I'm unsure of the source of these figures and
question how it
Acutally, if your calculations are correct, electricity doesn't look half
bad. :) Even better if TOU net metering with some solar was taken in to
account. We also have to take the energy conversion of the vehicle system
which EV's come out way ahead of ICE vehicles, no matter what fuel is
Acutally, if your calculations are correct, electricity doesn't look half
bad. :) Even better if TOU net metering with some solar was taken in to
account. We also have to take the energy conversion of the vehicle system
which EV's come out way ahead of ICE vehicles, no matter what fuel is
rethinks hydrogen fuel cells
One of the problems (I think) associated with
liquid and electric vehicles is when comparing
energy derived at a given weight,
Lead acid battery___1x
Ethanol50x
E8580x
Gasoline_100x
I'm unsure of the source
Actually it was the reports of Sparrow I owners that had indicated that
and Corbin's lack of any visable support. :)
So I called Tom Corbin directly today and here is what the skivey is:
They have ~70-72 Sparrow I's that are being changed over to the AC
system. About 22 are already paid
12:44 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [evworld] Re: [biofuel] GM rethinks hydrogen fuel cells
One of the problems (I think) associated with
liquid and electric vehicles is when comparing
energy derived at a given weight,
Lead acid battery___1x
Ethanol50x
http://www.skeleton-technologies.com/supcap6.htm
Some pdf you can download there.
-Original Message-
From: James Slayden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 6:01 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [evworld] Re: [biofuel] GM rethinks hydrogen fuel cells
And be able to (with standard tools) to swap out that spark-ignition engine
... and swap in a compression-ignition engine generator module. For use
with biodiesel ... of course.Just make sure the spark ... and
compression ... engines have the same bolt patterns. So that each would be
a
I'm a little confused. I thought that GM has announced having to turn
to Toyota for hybrid technology to bring these hybrids out. But in
this USA Today presentation, no mention seems to be made of that, and
at the end GM comes off as some sort of supposed innovator in the
field.
The concept of
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