Re: [biofuel] Fahrenheit 9/11
Fahrenheit 9/11 Facts http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/latestnews/f911facts/ What does the media have to say about Fahrenheit 9/11 http://www.fahrenheit911.com/about/press/ June 30, 2004 NY Daily News: A soaring display of American patriotism Moore's message delivered, big-time By Denis Hamill / New York Daily News Tuesday, June 29th, 2004 http://www.fahrenheit911.com/about/press/view.php?id=15 You could have heard a tear fall. As an American mother named Lila Lipscomb drowned in anguish over the death of her son in Iraq, the packed Loews Bay Terrace theater in Queens was so silent at the 11 a.m. show of Fahrenheit 9/11 on Friday that all you could hear was the rustle of tissues. I sat in the back of the theater, with an unemployed construction worker from Brooklyn, and as the movie played, I watched men and women, young and old, wiping their eyes in silhouette. They were the tears of the nation this weekend as Fahrenheit 9/11 blazed from sea to shining sea as the No.1 movie in America. This was a brand-new moviegoing experience. Since I started going to the movies at age 4 at the RKO Prospect in Brooklyn, I don't think I've ever sat with an audience so personally involved with the story being told on screen. This was not, after all, some exploding-fireball blockbuster. No, the exploding fireballs in this film are real. The dead people in this film are real. The dialogue is real. Real soldiers, real victims, real mothers, real dead kids. The bad guys, as portrayed by filmmaker Michael Moore, are all too real. The only thing fake is this administration's reasons for going to war, exploiting the nearly 3,000 deaths of Sept. 11 so that a rich kid who went AWOL from the National Guard during the Vietnam War could send American troops to die in Iraq and call himself a war prez'dint. And the reason the people in the audience, the American people, get so involved in this movie is because we are all extras in the story. The film - as sidesplitting as it is heartbreaking - is a soaring display of American patriotism, one that defies classification because it is a personal statement, the way Thomas Paine's Common Sense was something brand new in its bloody day. As Paine wrote, Government, even in its best state, is a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one. Moore doesn't tolerate Bush's government. Sometimes we need a smart, funny, common Joe to make some common sense out of what's happening in his country. If there had been cameras around back in the day, Tom Paine might have made a documentary instead of writing a pamphlet urging independence from England. Fahrenheit 9/11 oozes with patriotism because it is a loud celebration of our great Bill of Rights, telling our commander in chief that we think his war stinks in an election year. Look, the Bush campaign spent $85 million in three months trying to convince the electorate that John Kerry is a flip-flopping left-wing threat to national security. Moore spent $6 million to make his documentary showing that Bush is an arrogant, self-serving, dangerous buffoon who is a threat to national security. Fahrenheit 9/11 is also a corrective to the daily drumbeat of right-wing talk radio, which slants the news to fit a radical agenda. Yet the Rush Limbaughs and Sean Hannitys scorn Michael Moore for daring to express his point of view with pictures. But Americans don't like hypocrites. And so they are forking over $10 a head to say so, in places like Queens and Brooklyn and small working-class towns and neighborhoods across the fruited plain from which come the kids who do the dying in America's good and bad wars. Fahrenheit 9/11 also has been picked apart by the legitimate press. But this is because Moore spanks the American news media for being swept up in the myopic post-9/11 patriotic hysteria, allowing themselves to be embedded by the administration and spoon-fed jingoistic Iraqi war news. Fahrenheit 9/11 is also a testament to American capitalism, because nowhere else on the planet could a working-class guy from a place like Flint, Mich., grow up to skewer the President of the United States with his own words and actions and turn it into the biggest-grossing documentary in history, taking in $21.8 million in its opening weekend. This is a great American Horatio Alger story, one that every American should applaud. Which is exactly what the audience in Queens did last week after George W. Bush mangled his final sentence and the end credits rolled. I was as emotionally moved by the applause as I was by the film, because that was the powerful sound of Joe Public, as Bush refers to We the People. Out here in the opinionated boroughs, I expected some boos. I didn't hear one. Instead, I left with a deeply moved crowd, passing a long line for the next show. Back in Brooklyn, the unemployed construction worker bought a bootleg copy of
Re: [biofuel] Re: OT humor - divine retribution
Dear Kim, I have chosen this list member's email address at random to reply to you. It must be several millenia since I spoke directly to anyone, much less answer self-interested requests but in this case you may have a point. History is possibly not your strong point but you may recall that last time I took direct action in weather formation it rained continuously for 40 days and nights. On that occasion, I'm afraid, we lost a few souls who didn't heed the warnings. However, just to reassure you, remember that the Rainbow (see Genesis 9.13) promises a limit to flooding. If the rain persists beyond the 40-day limit just send out a dove. If it brings back an olive leaf you are probably not in Texas. In that case do not pass Go, do not collect $200. Instead you might consider going back to the drawingboard and try to figure out who to back in the next presidential election. There was a time when I preferred burnt offerings but what the hell (to borrow a phrase from my opposite number) a president will do. Per pro His Divinity By hand from The Celestial Secretary. - Original Message - From: Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: OT humor - divine retribution I only wish I could, I wish I could send it anywhere. We have been averaging 5 inches a day, or for the rest of the world, 12.7cm. Bright Blessings, Kim At 07:57 AM 7/1/2004, you wrote: Could you get Him to send some of that rain this way and some to those Indian farmers blaming the wind turbines for chopping up the clouds, we over here in autralias east coast cant remember what a rainy day is. Regards Nick --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To my higher Power, As I sit here at my desk, with still another flood warning flashing across my computer screen, I try hard to remember what it was like before the rain started, it has been so long. The local NPR [B/CS] station reported on June 17, that this was the wettest June in history and that this part of the world has been keeping records for 500 years. It has rained everyday since that report. This is truly enough to make one wonder what did Texas do to deserve this? I think we all know the answer, we are responsible for sticking the rest of the world with George W. Bush. Now we can argue he was a good Governor, I mean he gave us the handguns that Ann Richards' refused us, and put an end to much of the random violence we lived with. The gangs did not like the idea that John Q. Citizen just might pull a legal gun out and shoot back. After 5 years of having the legal guns, a whole 1500 people had permits to carry concealed weapons. This is not a large figure, but it sure worked. And the Bush family do lots for adult literacy programs, something we really need here in Texas. George W. followed the family footsteps on this one real well. So we had some reason for what we did. I mean, how were we suppose to know, what kind of President he was going to be? But is this any reason to try to wash Texas into the gulf? After 20 days of constant flash flood warnings and watches, we apologize. If we promise not to vote for George W., will you please stop the rain? Bright Blessings, Kim [who has nothing better to do since her farm is a mud pit] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Divine retribution - the facts
Hi Kim, If you need another angle on your water problem, read on: Regards, Bob. http://www.alternet.org/story/19017/ AlterNet The New Blue Gold By Silja J.A. Talvi, AlterNet. Posted June 23, 2004. The rush to privatize water is underway across the world. In the new documentary 'Thirst,' filmmakers Deborah Kaufman and Alan Snitow set out to explore the consequences. There are untold profits to be made from controlling the simplest and most vital ingredient of our survival: water. The only question, from a profit standpoint, is why it has taken this long. You can't do anything without water, says Alan Snitow, co-producer and co-director of Thirst, a groundbreaking and provocative new film about the rush to privatize what the filmmakers rightly define as the very essence of life. In their third collaborative documentary film after the successes of Blacks and Jews (1997) and Secrets of Silicon Valley (2001), Bay Area- based filmmaking duo Deborah Kaufman and Snitow take an unflinching and multifaceted look at water privatization in Bolivia, India, Japan and the U.S. What Kaufman and Snitow find is that the water rush is likely to turn into one of the most volatile and potentially galvanizing issues of the 21st century. This is an incredible struggle, and yet it's still so far below the radar that we're trying to give it a voice, Kaufman says. People are already willing to die for [water], but it's something that many of us still take for granted. The grab for corporate control of water is indeed already here in our own backyards. But the conflict over water supplies perhaps most familiar to news-savvy audiences is the place where Thirst goes first: to Cochabamba, Bolivia. After the country auctions off the water system of its third-largest city to U.S.-based Bechtel Corporation in 1999, residents experience water price hikes of 30- 300%, and the situation eventually erupts in a cross-class protest that makes headline news worldwide. By April 2000, the government responds to civil unrest by declaring martial law. Shortly thereafter, Victor Hugo Daza, a 17-year-old peaceful protester, is shot dead in the streets by a government sniper. Daza's death doesn't quell dissent the way it was intended to. In fact, protests heat up to the point that water consortium execs beat a hasty retreat, and Cochabamba's water system gets handed over to a community-run utility. In an unlikely turn of events, the citizens actually get what they want; water gets treated like a human right, not as the last frontier of the commercialization and privatization of earth's natural resources. They're on the defensive in the global South, Kaufman explains. In many ways, they're ahead of us responding to what's in the near future for all of us. In point of fact, American cities and towns are the new staging ground for rapid and strategic power plays over who controls water supply. In 2004, 85% of U.S. municipal water systems are publicly owned, with a shocking 15% already in the hands of corporations. Unbeknownst to most residents, municipal governments are being heavily courted in the here and now to turn over control of their water supply to multinational companies like Suez Water, whose U.S. subsidiary took control of Atlanta's water in 1999. The incentive for local governments is hard to miss; with an estimated cost of a trillion dollars, the prospect of replacing aging pipes and improving the condition of public water plants is increasingly seen by city leaders as a budgetary drain best dealt with through privatiza tion. To exemplify the point, Kaufman and Snitow turn their camera to Stockton, California, where a well-run locally controlled water purification and distribution system is about to be offered to the highest bidder. (Notably, the public utility itself isn't allowed to be one of the bidders.) The transfer of power over the water supply is intended to take the form of a public-private partnership, and Stockton Mayor Gary Podesto is a firm supporter. This can be done for less dollars, as Mayor Podesto says. A subsequent, well-orchestrated grassroots mobilization by city residents -- baristas, orthodontists, environmentalists, utility employees and union members among other unlikely allies -- fails to capture any attention from the national media. But Kaufman and Snitow have the instinct to jump into the heart of the conflict, meeting and talking with all sides of the privatization debate. But there is no storybook ending in Thirst where Stockton's citizenry are concerned. By February 2003, in fact, the Mayor and a severely divided City Council hand over the $600 million, 20-year contract to a two-company consortium of corporate water giants: OMI and Thames. All along, Stockton residents who did their research were emphatic that corporate claims of cost effectiveness, quality and safety had not been realized elsewhere. In Atlanta's case, for instance, the city's $428 million, 20-year contract
[biofuel] Glass tanks and my progres
Is it posiible to use aquariums or glass tanks for the process, acid eats the metal and alcohol can do damage to the plastics but none of them can harm glass bu ofcourse then the problem would be silicone used to stick seal the glass. I didnt like the idea of processor where you cant see everything. The rest is not really interesting BTW, i bought some methanol today about 30 liters 2$ per liter, and a kg of NaOH. Soon ill start my test batches. Im planning on first doing a virgin oil test then going straight to a 1 liter test batch of the foolproof method. Ill buy some acids tomorrow aswell. Im hoping to have atleast a liter or two in my car by the end of next week. I am about to purchase a VW passat stationwagon, 23 years old. Would that be smart? Or anything wrong with it? Thanks a lot in advance Teoman __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
I applaud your attempt to discredit the source rather than to make any attempt whatsoever to discredit the arguement or the premise itself. But here are some more reputable sources, irregardless of the fact that the site I linked had a number of reference sources. http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/0422nra3.shtml And here is the link of how Moore edited hestons speech entirely and spliced the sentences to create an entirely new speech. http://www.hardylaw.net/Bowlingtranscript.html He has a link on there with the actual transcript, and you can throw in BFC if you want to check Moore's new version. And here is another anti-Moore link corraborating the Flint incident. I don't need a source for that though, slow down your DVD player and do it frame by frame. Moore puts together a sequence of scenes to make it look like Heston is in Flint immediately after the death of the little girl. He actually says Just as he did after the Columbine shooting, Charlton Heston showed up in Flint, to have a big pro-gun rally. But, from: http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=859 When I spoke to Moore last week, he confirmed Hardyâs point about the date of the speech, but angrily denied the allegation that he had misled viewers. Moore actually admits the date was off. How does he get off saying he didn't try to mislead people. As for the civilian casualties, there are only a reported maximum of about 11,300 according to http://www.iraqbodycount.net Most of the deaths are by cluster bombs and the initial missile attacks. But go check out the database, those suicide and car bombers are killing more Iraqi's than americans. When you kill 30-100 people per bomb trying to get back at the American's, your seriously hurting your own people. Given the 325,000 killed in Vietnam and lets not forget the millions from WWII. I do not condone the civilian deaths, and I think we still have a long way to go, but war does have casualties, and I think there were significant improvements so far. Randall Sanborn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
Perhaps my post # 36427 can shed some light of it. :) L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Randall, I'm also from Michigan, doesn't mean I blindly accept the opinion of everyone who speaks here. That goes ditto for me as well, especially when folks such as yourself point an entire list to spin sights dedicated solely to fragging those who present factual informatioin or reasonably supported perspectives contrary to the conservative party line. I was appreciably amused with the pro-Bill Oh-Really? bits found at one of your sources. Forget Oh-Really's snotty mouth and bad manners. That sight conjours up distortions for every deceipt that he's practiced on the public for decades. And sadly, as long as he's got people similar to yourself defending him he'll never have to speak truthfully. Must be nice. Doubtful that you're getting paid for your efforts either. What a shamI mean shame. Again, thanks for the chuckles. I have this sneakin' suspicion that you have a few more of these gems up your sleeve just itchin' to slip out. Ohone other thing. Relative to your poker skills, or in this case your lack thereof, there's this little beaut... A large number of civilians died in Iraq during the war and occupation. I'm willing to bet that a very large portion of those deaths were not inflicted by Americans though. Me thinks that you might want to get a grip on the numbers before you initiate your practices of dispersion, much less start laying money down on your peculiar beliefs. Ten to twelve thousand civilian deaths during the initial weeks of the invasion If the bombs hadn't dropped they wouldn't be dead, now would they? Those were American/Coalition bombs, now weren't they? And they were dropped because America's favourite antagonist decided to show everyone his full depth and breadth of ineptitude. But it's their fault that they're dead, huh? So how about quantifying what you call a very large portion? Go ahead, take your time. But when you're finished, I'll give you 10:1 odds that you're completely in error. But hell, it's your money - bet what you want. Seems to me that you've got a sad knack of placing responsibility in places where it doesn't belong. Doesn't speak well for your powers of discernment. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 1:20 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 I'm also from Michigan, doesn't mean I blindly accept the opinion of everyone who speaks here. The facts are true. Michael Moore is meticulous in making sure he doesn't say anything that is explicitly false. Instead, he uses cheap camera tricks and clever sequences to give a very clear picture of what he is trying to say without ever actually implicating himself. Just a few examples from Bowling from Columbine because its been thoroughly analyzed numerous times. Firstly, the gun from the bank. http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/bank.htm He edits the seen to make it appear like he walked in wrote his name down and got a gun. This is supposed to show how easy it is to get a gun. This is a horrible example because the same process is used here as any gun shop would use. He neglects to show the fact that the clerk then took his ID and ran it through I believe its an FBI? database. But it certainly looks like America is handing out guns to anyone. If I remember correctly from read the process actually took closer to an hour and a half. Weak example yes, but none-the-less if shown honestly it would do nothing to promote Moore's arguement that any old fool can get a gun in the way he described. The requirements for getting that gun from the bank were just as stringent as getting it from any other registered gun shop. If he wants to analyze that, then fine, I support it. Maybe it is too easy to get a gun, I'm not here to offer an opinion on it, but the bank scene is only an example of the same process that would happen in any other legal weapon transaction. I think the NRA bashes are more incriminating of Moore's deceptive style. He spends quite a while dehumanizing the NRA and especially Mr. Heston. I had a very good friend see this movie and tell me Heston and the NRA were a bunch of jerks for jumping up to hold rallies right after the killings in Flint and Columbine. I must say, the 'evidence' in the movie was compelling. But some other people slowed down the feeds and picked through the internet. The 'rally' in Flint wasn't actually a Rally, Heston showed up to support Bush on his campaign, and it was 7 months after the incident. The movie shows a headline that says, 48 hours after Kayla Rolland is pronounced dead either right before or right after the Heston clip. It insinuates the meeting
Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale
how much,what is the cost shipping to louisiana [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I have a Westfalia centrifugal separator for sale. Its rated to approx. 900L per hr, has a single phase and 3-phase motor. I imported it from the states for a bio-diesel pilot plant. Is any one interested? Mark 07963 651609 ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fahrenheit 9/11
SCORCHING! The best film Michael Moore has made so far, a powerful and passionate expression of outraged patriotism. THE NEW YORK TIMES - A.O. Scott http://www.fahrenheit911.com One of the most controversial and provocative films of the year, Fahrenheit 9/11 is Academy Award-winning filmmaker Michael Moore's searing examination of the Bush administration's actions in the wake of the tragic events of 9/11. With his characteristic humor and dogged commitment to uncovering the facts, Moore considers the presidency of George W. Bush and where it has led us. He looks at how - and why - Bush and his inner circle avoided pursuing the Saudi connection to 9/11, despite the fact that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis and Saudi money had funded Al Qaeda. Fahrenheit 9/11 shows us a nation kept in constant fear by FBI alerts and lulled into accepting a piece of legislation, the USA Patriot Act, that infringes on basic civil rights. It is in this atmosphere of confusion, suspicion and dread that the Bush Administration makes its headlong rush towards war in Iraq - and Fahrenheit 9/11 takes us inside that war to tell the stories we haven't heard, illustrating the awful human cost to U.S. soldiers and their families. Lions Gate Films will release the film nationwide on June 25th. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] The Paradox 2 Experiment
The Paradox 2 Experiment Hi all, I thought a few of you may be interested in this motor and the tech behind it. The Paradox 2 Experiment http://www.distinti.com/paradox/index.htm regards Get your daily alternative energy news fix http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ news-resources-sources http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale
Hi Pieter, Seems I found a fellow Dutch guy around, something bound to happen of course. Pieter I recently became interested in Biodiesel and want to start producing it or at least give it my best shot. However, it seems I cannot get hold of decent lye (or NaOH) would you mind telling me where your supplier has hidden himself? Or where else I might be able to find good Lye? Grtz, Pieter van Eeten From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:19:10 +0200 Yes. What is the price ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 5:56 PM Subject: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Hi I have a Westfalia centrifugal separator for sale. Its rated to approx. 900L per hr, has a single phase and 3-phase motor. I imported it from the states for a bio-diesel pilot plant. Is any one interested? Mark 07963 651609 ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. _ Chatten met je online vrienden via MSN Messenger. http://messenger.msn.nl/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Like to Introduce Myself - Ethanol Maker
Hey Dennis, I know how it is with too many projects. My current setup is a bit on the small side right now. I boil my mash in a 15 gallon keg (same one I use for the beer I make), ferment in a 15 gallon plastic barrel and then made a reflux still out of a another 15 gallon keg (found a PDF called Building a Home Distillation Apparatus, can't remember the site I got it from). All that work then yields about 1.5 gallons 180 proof ethanol. I'm trying to use waste material for my fermentables.. so a plum tree in our yard will soon be part of the mash. Also been using old corn from a produce stand as well. I'm planning on doing a couple things to get more alcohol for each batch. First thing is pump up the batch size... just received my new fermenter, 55 gallon nalgene tank. Constructing a mash vessel is going to be interesting and been looking at the Mother Earth plans for a wood fired still. The other thing is trying another yeast that is more alcohol resistant... I found one from Wyeast called Eau de Vie - (Water of Life), it has alcohol tolerance up to 21%. Let me know how the conversion on ECM and fuel injected vehicles goes. I'm still looking for a suitable vehicle to be my alcohol burner. Glenn Hi Glenn! Just so you don't feel all alone here on the JTF list, I'm also interersted in the distilling of ethanol. What type of equipment are you using? I'm not distilling at this point too many other projects to get through but am gathering information to make conversions for ECM equipped vehicles to make them in effect an FFV. Glad to see another ethanol devotee. If we get enough of us maybe we can convert Keith and get him off biodiesel . hehehehhe. Best. Dennis Nelson __ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
Randall, This make me laugh and get very angry at the same time. You talk about the attempts to discredit the source instead of arguments, when it comes to yourself. When I then look at the argument, it is about that you tried to discredit the source instead of the arguments. LOL What made me angry is your blatant disrespect for human lives and your playing with numbers, as if it is some kind of valid arguments. One innocent collateral causality is one too much. Any other view is inhuman and arrogant, because I say so. It is not possible to justify anything based on higher or lower numbers of death. If the reason stinks, it cannot be justified in any way and any reason for killing people have some smell to it. Have you ever considered to take a job on a Circus. It seems that you are a natural talent for argubatic. Hakan At 01:58 02/07/2004, you wrote: I applaud your attempt to discredit the source rather than to make any attempt whatsoever to discredit the arguement or the premise itself. But here are some more reputable sources, irregardless of the fact that the site I linked had a number of reference sources. http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/0422nra3.shtml And here is the link of how Moore edited hestons speech entirely and spliced the sentences to create an entirely new speech. http://www.hardylaw.net/Bowlingtranscript.html He has a link on there with the actual transcript, and you can throw in BFC if you want to check Moore's new version. And here is another anti-Moore link corraborating the Flint incident. I don't need a source for that though, slow down your DVD player and do it frame by frame. Moore puts together a sequence of scenes to make it look like Heston is in Flint immediately after the death of the little girl. He actually says Just as he did after the Columbine shooting, Charlton Heston showed up in Flint, to have a big pro-gun rally. But, from: http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=859 When I spoke to Moore last week, he confirmed Hardy's point about the date of the speech, but angrily denied the allegation that he had misled viewers. Moore actually admits the date was off. How does he get off saying he didn't try to mislead people. As for the civilian casualties, there are only a reported maximum of about 11,300 according to http://www.iraqbodycount.net Most of the deaths are by cluster bombs and the initial missile attacks. But go check out the database, those suicide and car bombers are killing more Iraqi's than americans. When you kill 30-100 people per bomb trying to get back at the American's, your seriously hurting your own people. Given the 325,000 killed in Vietnam and lets not forget the millions from WWII. I do not condone the civilian deaths, and I think we still have a long way to go, but war does have casualties, and I think there were significant improvements so far. Randall Sanborn Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale
Hi Pieter, Where do you live ? My supplier is Breustedt in Apeldoorn Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: pieter van eeten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Hi Pieter, Seems I found a fellow Dutch guy around, something bound to happen of course. Pieter I recently became interested in Biodiesel and want to start producing it or at least give it my best shot. However, it seems I cannot get hold of decent lye (or NaOH) would you mind telling me where your supplier has hidden himself? Or where else I might be able to find good Lye? Grtz, Pieter van Eeten From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:19:10 +0200 Yes. What is the price ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 5:56 PM Subject: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Hi I have a Westfalia centrifugal separator for sale. Its rated to approx. 900L per hr, has a single phase and 3-phase motor. I imported it from the states for a bio-diesel pilot plant. Is any one interested? Mark 07963 651609 ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. _ Chatten met je online vrienden via MSN Messenger. http://messenger.msn.nl/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale
Eindhoven, do they sell wholesale at Breustedt or also smaller batches, seem more appropriate to start small with my first batch. Have you been making BD for a while? From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 09:50:28 +0200 Hi Pieter, Where do you live ? My supplier is Breustedt in Apeldoorn Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: pieter van eeten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Hi Pieter, Seems I found a fellow Dutch guy around, something bound to happen of course. Pieter I recently became interested in Biodiesel and want to start producing it or at least give it my best shot. However, it seems I cannot get hold of decent lye (or NaOH) would you mind telling me where your supplier has hidden himself? Or where else I might be able to find good Lye? Grtz, Pieter van Eeten From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:19:10 +0200 Yes. What is the price ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 5:56 PM Subject: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Hi I have a Westfalia centrifugal separator for sale. Its rated to approx. 900L per hr, has a single phase and 3-phase motor. I imported it from the states for a bio-diesel pilot plant. Is any one interested? Mark 07963 651609 ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. _ Chatten met je online vrienden via MSN Messenger. http://messenger.msn.nl/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. _ MSN Zoeken, voor duidelijke zoekresultaten! http://search.msn.nl Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-
Re: [biofuel] Glass tanks and my progres
Hello Teoman Is it posiible to use aquariums or glass tanks for the process, acid eats the metal and alcohol can do damage to the plastics but none of them can harm glass It's not that much of a problem, even ordinary mild steel survives rather well, should be fine for a couple of years at least, then just replace the tank. Plastics aren't a problem, if you use the right kind. bu ofcourse then the problem would be silicone used to stick seal the glass. I didnt like the idea of processor where you cant see everything. Even with the totally closed processors (no lid, no way to open them to get inside, like the water-heater processors), if you use a pump for agitation (recommended) and transparent plastic piping, you can see a great deal more than you'd think, more than adequate, IMO. Have a look at our 90-litre processor (removable lid): http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html That plastic pipe going from the outlet on top of the pump to the inlet in the processor lid effectively acts as a sight-tube, shows you all you need. The rest is not really interesting BTW, i bought some methanol today about 30 liters 2$ per liter, and a kg of NaOH. Soon ill start my test batches. Quite a few people seem to spend a lot of time thinking about and planning their full-sized processors before they've learnt how to make the stuff yet. It's understandable, but in practice it doesn't make a lot of sense. Once you've made your small test batches and have developed a real feel for how it works and why, then gone on to somewhat bigger batches (say 20 litres or so, in a bucket processor or something), THEN you'll have sound ideas about what kind of full-sized processor you need, not before. It just doesn't lend itself well to theorising. Im planning on first doing a virgin oil test then going straight to a 1 liter test batch of the foolproof method. Don't do it that way. One test batch with virgin oil still leaves you very much a novice, you don't know anything yet. Why start off by ignoring the instructions provided? Isn't it enough that you actually can make your own high-quality fuel? Why spoil it by taking short-cuts? It says right at the top of the Foolproof process page: NOTE: The two-stage biodiesel processes are advanced methods, not for novices -- learn the basics thoroughly first. The single-stage base method is the place to start. Start here. Here being here - single stage, with new oil: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Keep going from there - first the new oil. When you can do this with it, you can move along: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality Quality testing Not before. Then move on to WVO. Do it all, titration, washing, everything. Learn the basics thoroughly. It just seems simpler to you that way, eh? No titration, no fuss. Not so - virtually all experienced biodieselers say it's not for novices, and for good reason, you'd be rash to ignore them. There was some discussion about this at the list recently, please see these two previous posts: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/35241/ Re: What went wrong? http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/35214/ Re: What went wrong? Ill buy some acids tomorrow aswell. No need. Im hoping to have atleast a liter or two in my car by the end of next week. :-) Good luck. I am about to purchase a VW passat stationwagon, 23 years old. Would that be smart? Or anything wrong with it? Should be fine. Best wishes Keith Thanks a lot in advance Teoman Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re[2]: [biofuel] Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
Hallo All, I find it somewhat curious that some folks bend over backwards to discredit Mike Moore because they don't like his movie and think that he rearranges things so that people appear to be saying one thing when they are really saying something else, that they are lying to the public for their own ends. This is exactly what presidents do. Presidents of any political stripe. But they don't use film to do this they use all the media of every country and then they call that politics. The United States government empowered Hussein, gave him his WMD to use against Iran and his own people, and when they were through with him the suckered him into attacking Kuwait so they could go in. Act two of this farce was when the borderline defective Bush ignored good intel and manipulated the rest and had Powell present a knowingly false case to the UN and then he started this mess. He sent and is still sending US troops into harms way over a lie, over oil and Israel, over money. Some things stand out in my mind. I remember the president inciting the Hungarians to revolt in '57 all but promising to help them and then when they did the United States sat on its hands. The same thing happened in Iraq after the first Gulf War. Hussein had a field day killing those poor buggers stupid enough to think that the United States would lift a finger to help them. The United States has a record of supporting repressive regimes if they think they can get something out of it. I remember the US supporting Castro. He was a media hero. Then he said the magic phrase, I am a Communist. and he was shunned. The US supported the Shah of Iran who was a real swine and look what we have in Iran today. The US supported the Afghanis until they defeated the Soviets and then we dropped them and allowed the Taliban to take over. The US supports the genocide of Israel which set off all this jihad business. The list goes on and on. We, the United States government and big business, need to clean up our own house before we go pointing fingers at anyone. Because of his political leanings Mike Moore chose to target the Republicans. Someone else targets the Democrats. Big deal. There is not a shred of honor or integrity in the entire administration. Anyone who displays such traits either quits or gets booted. A lot of people had hopes for Colin Powell but his presentation to the UN showed that any shred of integrity he had he abandoned. People think Mike Moore manipulates things so people think officials are saying something they're not? The following old joke is truly appropos. How do you know when a politician/business executive is lying? Their lips are moving. There is also another old saying, Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. I really take that one to heart after 8 years in the military and 33.5 months of Viet Nam time. If I get fooled again it will not be because I failed to get all the FACTS of a matter. I will certainly never believe either government or big business without a thorough examination of everything they say. They are bottom line entities and the only thing which matters to those types is money and power. People be damned. Environment be damned. Right and truth be damned. Just so you folks know what I am, I am 59 years old, have 8 years military service including time in the Nam, have children and grandchildren, am disabled since the Nam and live well below the poverty level (in the United States), do not involve myself in partisan politics for reasons of religion and logic, am not patriotic if patriotism means us and them but am patriotic if that means we and that we includes everyone worldwide, believe that the bottom line thinking is evil, believe that the lives of me and mine are no more or less important than that of them and theirs. If folks want to take pot shots at Mike Moore that is well and good, but you really ought to declare yourselves for what you are which is just as partisan as Mike. Mike has staked out his territory and declared his interests. He makes films and writes books. He is a political satirist and humorist. That is how he fights what he considers evil. Politicians, on the other hand, are only interested in fighting evil when it is to their benefit, when it accrues them money or power. Same same big business. If you want to lump yourselves in with them then by all means do so, but you really ought to declare that you share the same lack of ethics and mores which they do. It would be good to remember that only that which is wrong needs to be justified. That which is good and right and true stands on its own with no justification required. Happy Happy, Gustl Thursday, 01 July, 2004, 19:58:29, you wrote: rcn I applaud your attempt to
[biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I applaud your attempt to discredit the source rather than to make any attempt whatsoever to discredit the arguement or the premise itself. Have you ever heard the expression the pot calling the kettle black? I don't know if I've ever heard a better example of this than this statement. Brian Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
Perhaps my post # 36427 can shed some light of it. :) Not really L. Yes. I read your post. I also left it lay, as your conclusion that F 9/11 would lead to a Saudi witch hunt is rather threadbare. If you'd paid some attention to F 9/11 you'd be able to note that the film points out numerous valid questions that have yet to be answered. Whether or not others go on witch hunts instead of answering the questions is altogether irrelevant - save for the fact that in doing so they quickly reveal their lack of principle. For what purpose, again, one can only question. Sad state of affairs when questions are considered more chaotic than actions. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: bioveging [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 8:38 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 Perhaps my post # 36427 can shed some light of it. :) L. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Randall, I'm also from Michigan, doesn't mean I blindly accept the opinion of everyone who speaks here. That goes ditto for me as well, especially when folks such as yourself point an entire list to spin sights dedicated solely to fragging those who present factual informatioin or reasonably supported perspectives contrary to the conservative party line. I was appreciably amused with the pro-Bill Oh-Really? bits found at one of your sources. Forget Oh-Really's snotty mouth and bad manners. That sight conjours up distortions for every deceipt that he's practiced on the public for decades. And sadly, as long as he's got people similar to yourself defending him he'll never have to speak truthfully. Must be nice. Doubtful that you're getting paid for your efforts either. What a shamI mean shame. Again, thanks for the chuckles. I have this sneakin' suspicion that you have a few more of these gems up your sleeve just itchin' to slip out. Ohone other thing. Relative to your poker skills, or in this case your lack thereof, there's this little beaut... A large number of civilians died in Iraq during the war and occupation. I'm willing to bet that a very large portion of those deaths were not inflicted by Americans though. Me thinks that you might want to get a grip on the numbers before you initiate your practices of dispersion, much less start laying money down on your peculiar beliefs. Ten to twelve thousand civilian deaths during the initial weeks of the invasion If the bombs hadn't dropped they wouldn't be dead, now would they? Those were American/Coalition bombs, now weren't they? And they were dropped because America's favourite antagonist decided to show everyone his full depth and breadth of ineptitude. But it's their fault that they're dead, huh? So how about quantifying what you call a very large portion? Go ahead, take your time. But when you're finished, I'll give you 10:1 odds that you're completely in error. But hell, it's your money - bet what you want. Seems to me that you've got a sad knack of placing responsibility in places where it doesn't belong. Doesn't speak well for your powers of discernment. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 1:20 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 I'm also from Michigan, doesn't mean I blindly accept the opinion of everyone who speaks here. The facts are true. Michael Moore is meticulous in making sure he doesn't say anything that is explicitly false. Instead, he uses cheap camera tricks and clever sequences to give a very clear picture of what he is trying to say without ever actually implicating himself. Just a few examples from Bowling from Columbine because its been thoroughly analyzed numerous times. Firstly, the gun from the bank. http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/bank.htm He edits the seen to make it appear like he walked in wrote his name down and got a gun. This is supposed to show how easy it is to get a gun. This is a horrible example because the same process is used here as any gun shop would use. He neglects to show the fact that the clerk then took his ID and ran it through I believe its an FBI? database. But it certainly looks like America is handing out guns to anyone. If I remember correctly from read the process actually took closer to an hour and a half. Weak example yes, but none-the-less if shown honestly it would do nothing to promote Moore's arguement that any old fool can get a gun in the way he described. The requirements for getting that gun from the bank were just as stringent as getting it from any other registered gun shop. If he wants to analyze that, then fine, I support it. Maybe it is too easy to get a gun, I'm not here to offer
[biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
I wrote my reply to Randall's post before looking at his references. For that I apologize. Now that I have read Heston's entire speech, I would like to thank him for posting that link here. He has proven to us all that the editing that Moore did in Bowling fro Columbine presented a very fair representation of the message of that speech. For posting something that so clearly goes against his agenda, I commend him. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Gustl Steiner-Zehender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo All, I find it somewhat curious that some folks bend over backwards to discredit Mike Moore because they don't like his movie and think that he rearranges things so that people appear to be saying one thing when they are really saying something else, that they are lying to the public for their own ends. This is exactly what presidents do. Presidents of any political stripe. But they don't use film to do this they use all the media of every country and then they call that politics. The United States government empowered Hussein, gave him his WMD to use against Iran and his own people, and when they were through with him the suckered him into attacking Kuwait so they could go in. Act two of this farce was when the borderline defective Bush ignored good intel and manipulated the rest and had Powell present a knowingly false case to the UN and then he started this mess. He sent and is still sending US troops into harms way over a lie, over oil and Israel, over money. Some things stand out in my mind. I remember the president inciting the Hungarians to revolt in '57 all but promising to help them and then when they did the United States sat on its hands. The same thing happened in Iraq after the first Gulf War. Hussein had a field day killing those poor buggers stupid enough to think that the United States would lift a finger to help them. The United States has a record of supporting repressive regimes if they think they can get something out of it. I remember the US supporting Castro. He was a media hero. Then he said the magic phrase, I am a Communist. and he was shunned. The US supported the Shah of Iran who was a real swine and look what we have in Iran today. The US supported the Afghanis until they defeated the Soviets and then we dropped them and allowed the Taliban to take over. The US supports the genocide of Israel which set off all this jihad business. The list goes on and on. We, the United States government and big business, need to clean up our own house before we go pointing fingers at anyone. Because of his political leanings Mike Moore chose to target the Republicans. Someone else targets the Democrats. Big deal. There is not a shred of honor or integrity in the entire administration. Anyone who displays such traits either quits or gets booted. A lot of people had hopes for Colin Powell but his presentation to the UN showed that any shred of integrity he had he abandoned. People think Mike Moore manipulates things so people think officials are saying something they're not? The following old joke is truly appropos. How do you know when a politician/business executive is lying? Their lips are moving. There is also another old saying, Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. I really take that one to heart after 8 years in the military and 33.5 months of Viet Nam time. If I get fooled again it will not be because I failed to get all the FACTS of a matter. I will certainly never believe either government or big business without a thorough examination of everything they say. They are bottom line entities and the only thing which matters to those types is money and power. People be damned. Environment be damned. Right and truth be damned. Just so you folks know what I am, I am 59 years old, have 8 years military service including time in the Nam, have children and grandchildren, am disabled since the Nam and live well below the poverty level (in the United States), do not involve myself in partisan politics for reasons of religion and logic, am not patriotic if patriotism means us and them but am patriotic if that means we and that we includes everyone worldwide, believe that the bottom line thinking is evil, believe that the lives of me and mine are no more or less important than that of them and theirs. If folks want to take pot shots at Mike Moore that is well and good, but you really ought to declare yourselves for what you are which is just as partisan as Mike. Mike has staked out his territory and declared his interests. He makes films and writes books. He is a political satirist and humorist. That is how he fights
Re: [biofuel] Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
Mr. Sanborn, Let's try a little honesty for a moment. I know that it might pain you. But give it a go just once. First of all, yes, you're correct. I do make point of discredit[ing] the source[s], especially when the sources you use are ripe with error. Second, when a person utilizes sources chucked full of error and disinformation as their foundation for argument, there is essentially no argument and no point or purpose in going 'round and 'round the mulberry bush as you would apparently like effect. Third, based upon the sources that you draw your information from, it is rather apparent that you're either an aspiring disinformatinalist or someone who siimply enjoys creating an atmosphere of argument. Fourth, in light of that, I'm afraid that you presume far too much in your expectancy that everyone (or anyone) drop everything that they're doing, wrestle precious hours away from far more productive endeavors, all to rehash erroneous allegations and falsehoods of intentional foundation. To what end? Certainly not in search of any truth. Or if so, only the truth as you care to interpret it. Do you really think that a book such as Al Franken's Lies and the Lying Liars that tell them, A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right would have made it out of the batter's box if it was as full of liable and untruths as your sources claim? And in all honesty, anyone who deliberately assesses judgement on a present issue and/or film based upon an unrelated past issue is someone who is far more set upon a distorted conclusion than upon any conclusion predicated upon reality. Come to think of it, that practice is exactly what you're accusing another of. One can only presume, based upon your operating on such a double standard, that the rules that you would care to apply to others simply don't apply to you? Perahaps now you can see why you are so easily discounted? Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 I applaud your attempt to discredit the source rather than to make any attempt whatsoever to discredit the arguement or the premise itself. But here are some more reputable sources, irregardless of the fact that the site I linked had a number of reference sources. http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/0422nra3.shtml And here is the link of how Moore edited hestons speech entirely and spliced the sentences to create an entirely new speech. http://www.hardylaw.net/Bowlingtranscript.html He has a link on there with the actual transcript, and you can throw in BFC if you want to check Moore's new version. And here is another anti-Moore link corraborating the Flint incident. I don't need a source for that though, slow down your DVD player and do it frame by frame. Moore puts together a sequence of scenes to make it look like Heston is in Flint immediately after the death of the little girl. He actually says Just as he did after the Columbine shooting, Charlton Heston showed up in Flint, to have a big pro-gun rally. But, from: http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=859 When I spoke to Moore last week, he confirmed Hardy's point about the date of the speech, but angrily denied the allegation that he had misled viewers. Moore actually admits the date was off. How does he get off saying he didn't try to mislead people. As for the civilian casualties, there are only a reported maximum of about 11,300 according to http://www.iraqbodycount.net Most of the deaths are by cluster bombs and the initial missile attacks. But go check out the database, those suicide and car bombers are killing more Iraqi's than americans. When you kill 30-100 people per bomb trying to get back at the American's, your seriously hurting your own people. Given the 325,000 killed in Vietnam and lets not forget the millions from WWII. I do not condone the civilian deaths, and I think we still have a long way to go, but war does have casualties, and I think there were significant improvements so far. Randall Sanborn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL
Re: [biofuel] Glass tanks and my progres
Teoman, All things are possible. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they are advisable. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Teoman Naskali [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 6:56 PM Subject: [biofuel] Glass tanks and my progres Is it posiible to use aquariums or glass tanks for the process, acid eats the metal and alcohol can do damage to the plastics but none of them can harm glass bu ofcourse then the problem would be silicone used to stick seal the glass. I didnt like the idea of processor where you cant see everything. The rest is not really interesting BTW, i bought some methanol today about 30 liters 2$ per liter, and a kg of NaOH. Soon ill start my test batches. Im planning on first doing a virgin oil test then going straight to a 1 liter test batch of the foolproof method. Ill buy some acids tomorrow aswell. Im hoping to have atleast a liter or two in my car by the end of next week. I am about to purchase a VW passat stationwagon, 23 years old. Would that be smart? Or anything wrong with it? Thanks a lot in advance Teoman __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale
I make lots of it since several years. At Breustedt you can buy 25 kg bags or more. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: pieter van eeten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Eindhoven, do they sell wholesale at Breustedt or also smaller batches, seem more appropriate to start small with my first batch. Have you been making BD for a while? From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 09:50:28 +0200 Hi Pieter, Where do you live ? My supplier is Breustedt in Apeldoorn Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: pieter van eeten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Hi Pieter, Seems I found a fellow Dutch guy around, something bound to happen of course. Pieter I recently became interested in Biodiesel and want to start producing it or at least give it my best shot. However, it seems I cannot get hold of decent lye (or NaOH) would you mind telling me where your supplier has hidden himself? Or where else I might be able to find good Lye? Grtz, Pieter van Eeten From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:19:10 +0200 Yes. What is the price ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 5:56 PM Subject: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Hi I have a Westfalia centrifugal separator for sale. Its rated to approx. 900L per hr, has a single phase and 3-phase motor. I imported it from the states for a bio-diesel pilot plant. Is any one interested? Mark 07963 651609 ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. _ Chatten met je online vrienden via MSN Messenger.
Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale
The number is 06 2049 38 58 (Jan de Jong). Mention my name if you wish, and maybe you'll even get it a little cheaper. I have a small factory and Jan is my supplier. Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: pieter van eeten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Eindhoven, do they sell wholesale at Breustedt or also smaller batches, seem more appropriate to start small with my first batch. Have you been making BD for a while? From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 09:50:28 +0200 Hi Pieter, Where do you live ? My supplier is Breustedt in Apeldoorn Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: pieter van eeten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Hi Pieter, Seems I found a fellow Dutch guy around, something bound to happen of course. Pieter I recently became interested in Biodiesel and want to start producing it or at least give it my best shot. However, it seems I cannot get hold of decent lye (or NaOH) would you mind telling me where your supplier has hidden himself? Or where else I might be able to find good Lye? Grtz, Pieter van Eeten From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 18:19:10 +0200 Yes. What is the price ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands. The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 5:56 PM Subject: [biofuel] Westfalia Centrifuge for sale Hi I have a Westfalia centrifugal separator for sale. Its rated to approx. 900L per hr, has a single phase and 3-phase motor. I imported it from the states for a bio-diesel pilot plant. Is any one interested? Mark 07963 651609 ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd.
Re: [biofuel] Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
You moved so quickly to find error with the sources that you completely disregarded the argument itself. I'll readily admit that there are some seriously flawed pieces on that site, but if you look through the two examples I mentioned you'll see a few perfect examples of disinformation. The pictures were the important part on those specific pages and for the most part the write up is spot on. I'll give Moore credit, he is one of the best I've seen at using facts to lie. wrestle precious hours away from far more productive endeavors, all to rehash erroneous allegations and falsehoods of intentional foundation. They aren't falsehoods, if you look at the quote I dropped in from Michael Moore he actually admitted to at least one of those incidents and the rest are very well documented. He's doesn't make documentaries, he makes political propaganda. I don't have a problem with political propaganda even, just as long as its honest and presented as such. He lies, and presents his work as documentary which it isn't. I'm sitting here reading numerous posts of people saying this is the best thing they've seen, etc, and I'd simply like them to at the very least exercise a little more judgment. Randall Sanborn On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 11:10, Appal Energy wrote: Mr. Sanborn, Let's try a little honesty for a moment. I know that it might pain you. But give it a go just once. First of all, yes, you're correct. I do make point of discredit[ing] the source[s], especially when the sources you use are ripe with error. Second, when a person utilizes sources chucked full of error and disinformation as their foundation for argument, there is essentially no argument and no point or purpose in going 'round and 'round the mulberry bush as you would apparently like effect. Third, based upon the sources that you draw your information from, it is rather apparent that you're either an aspiring disinformatinalist or someone who siimply enjoys creating an atmosphere of argument. Fourth, in light of that, I'm afraid that you presume far too much in your expectancy that everyone (or anyone) drop everything that they're doing, wrestle precious hours away from far more productive endeavors, all to rehash erroneous allegations and falsehoods of intentional foundation. To what end? Certainly not in search of any truth. Or if so, only the truth as you care to interpret it. Do you really think that a book such as Al Franken's Lies and the Lying Liars that tell them, A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right would have made it out of the batter's box if it was as full of liable and untruths as your sources claim? And in all honesty, anyone who deliberately assesses judgement on a present issue and/or film based upon an unrelated past issue is someone who is far more set upon a distorted conclusion than upon any conclusion predicated upon reality. Come to think of it, that practice is exactly what you're accusing another of. One can only presume, based upon your operating on such a double standard, that the rules that you would care to apply to others simply don't apply to you? Perahaps now you can see why you are so easily discounted? Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 I applaud your attempt to discredit the source rather than to make any attempt whatsoever to discredit the arguement or the premise itself. But here are some more reputable sources, irregardless of the fact that the site I linked had a number of reference sources. http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/0422nra3.shtml And here is the link of how Moore edited hestons speech entirely and spliced the sentences to create an entirely new speech. http://www.hardylaw.net/Bowlingtranscript.html He has a link on there with the actual transcript, and you can throw in BFC if you want to check Moore's new version. And here is another anti-Moore link corraborating the Flint incident. I don't need a source for that though, slow down your DVD player and do it frame by frame. Moore puts together a sequence of scenes to make it look like Heston is in Flint immediately after the death of the little girl. He actually says Just as he did after the Columbine shooting, Charlton Heston showed up in Flint, to have a big pro-gun rally. But, from: http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=859 When I spoke to Moore last week, he confirmed Hardy's point about the date of the speech, but angrily denied the allegation that he had misled viewers. Moore actually admits the date was off. How does he get off saying he didn't try to mislead people. As for the civilian casualties, there are only a reported maximum of about 11,300 according to http://www.iraqbodycount.net Most of the deaths are by cluster bombs and the initial
[biofuel] Biodiesel Coop in Northern New Mexico
Hello everybody, I live near Santa Fe and am looking for anyone in the area interested in investigating a Coop or club for building and refining processors. I have good work spaces(inside and out), and would be ok meeting there. I have done small batches(5 gal), and would like to work on washing and refining larger amounts of product. Happy Independence Day Heath [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] the philadelphia experiment
The Philadelphia Experiment Hi all, I thought that I would post these links. Some of you may be aware of these stories but a lot of folks have never heard of the Philadelphia experiment and it is interesting reading, regards The Philadelphia Experiment http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq21-1.htm THE PHILADELPHIA EXPERIMENT: What They Didn't Want You To Know http://www.viewzone.com/philadelphia.html The Philadelphia Experiment from A-Z http://www.softwareartist.com/philexp.html The Philadelphia Experiment U.S.S. Eldridge DE 173 Project Rainbow Hoax, Fantasy, or X-file? http://www.navalships.org/eldridge.html THE PHILADELPHIA EXPERIMENT AND ASCENSION http://ascension2000.com/Shift-of-the-Ages/shift10.htm The Montauk Project and the Philadelphia Experiment http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/montauk.html Montauk Experiment; Interview From The Metaphysical Experience http://www.crystalinks.com/montauk.html Montauk Project - Montauk Air Force Station - Active or Not? http://www.crystalinks.com/montauk1.html THE PHILADELPHIA PROJECT PROJECT RAINBOW AND THE USS ELDRIDGE http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/philadelphia.html Get your daily alternative energy news fix http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ news-resources-sources http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] THE HOT MOVIE
The conversations and accusations are flying around, so I thought I would post an article I received from a humor writer which may help someone put this whole discussion in perspective. Enjoy. Dick THIS WEEK'S COLUMN: THE HOT MOVIE THAT'S BURNING BUSH Michael Moore's documentary Fahrenheit 9/11 has already set records at the box office, treating moviegoers to a scathing attack on President Bush and his co-architects in the war on terrorism. If you hate Bush, you will absolutely love this movie, which probably explains why so many people are eager to dub the movie into Arabic. Not to mention French, Spanish, German, Russian, Mandarin, Hindi, Tonga, Swahili and (please insert your native language here). As much as I love to bash the president, I have misgivings about this movie. It's a rather one-sided presentation of facts, designed to get Americans to ask a serious question about their president, a question that has been asked countless times in other countries: How did this idiot get elected? But Bush is hardly an idiot and if you don't believe me, just ask the woman who dresses him. She will tell you that he's quite capable at what he does, leading America against the forces of evil, who are involved in all sorts of mischief these days, even producing award-winning documentaries. While Fahrenheit 9/11 is certainly compelling, it's important to ask ourselves how fair it is. For example, Moore shows us what Bush did on Sept. 11 after learning that a second plane had hit the twin towers: He continued reading a book called My Pet Goat to a group of schoolchildren for almost seven minutes. In other words, he didn't do what most Americans would expect of him in this moment of crisis: Jump out of his chair, grab a phone and say, Hey Dick, what the heck should I do? What people don't realize, however, is that the president is an expert multi-tasker. The demands of his job often dictate that he perform several tasks at once, sometimes even using both sides of his brain. In those seven minutes of seemingly casual reading, he had not only planned the wars on Afghanistan and Iraq, but also determined, through a highly analytical process, what he was going to have for lunch. Moore also shows us that despite the involvement of at least 15 Saudi Arabian natives in the Sept. 11 attacks, the Bush Administration allowed a number of Saudis, including the extended family of Osama bin Laden, to charter planes and leave America soon after the terrorist attacks. Of course, there is a logical explanation for this. And as soon as I find it, I will let you know. Moore and other critics of the Bush Administration seem to imply that the Saudis were allowed to leave America unquestioned. But that's not true at all. Before boarding their planes, all of them were asked the all-important question: Did you pack your bags yourself? And all of them gave the correct answer: Of course not. We have maids for that! Citing a figure from the Washington Post, Moore charges that Bush spent 42% of the first seven months of his presidency on vacation, implying that he was ill-prepared to prevent the terrorist attacks. There are two problems with this argument. First, Bush took what he calls working vacations. He didn't just sit around -- he WORKED on his golf swing. Second, the 42% figure includes weekends. Most Americans do not think of their weekends as vacations. Even when they get a Friday or Monday off, they call it a long weekend, not a short vacation. If ordinary Americans can get four weekends a month, surely the president is entitled to six or seven. But this kind of logical reasoning seems to escape Moore, perhaps because he doesn't have the intellectual capacity of President Bush. In fact, we can be reasonably certain that Moore, in his entire adulthood, has never even read My Pet Goat. -- (c) Copyright 2004 Melvin Durai. All Rights Reserved. SEND THIS COLUMN TO A FRIEND [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
