Hallo All, I find it somewhat curious that some folks bend over backwards to discredit Mike Moore because they don't like his movie and think that he rearranges things so that people appear to be saying one thing when they are "really" saying something else, that they are lying to the public for their own ends.
This is exactly what presidents do. Presidents of any political stripe. But they don't use film to do this they use all the media of every country and then they call that politics. The United States government empowered Hussein, gave him his "WMD" to use against Iran and his own people, and when they were through with him the suckered him into attacking Kuwait so they could go in. Act two of this farce was when the borderline defective Bush ignored good intel and manipulated the rest and had Powell present a knowingly false case to the UN and then he started this mess. He sent and is still sending US troops into harms way over a lie, over oil and Israel, over money. Some things stand out in my mind. I remember the president inciting the Hungarians to revolt in '57 all but promising to help them and then when they did the United States sat on its hands. The same thing happened in Iraq after the first "Gulf War". Hussein had a field day killing those poor buggers stupid enough to think that the United States would lift a finger to help them. The United States has a record of supporting repressive regimes if they think they can get something out of it. I remember the US supporting Castro. He was a media hero. Then he said the magic phrase, "I am a Communist." and he was shunned. The US supported the Shah of Iran who was a real swine and look what we have in Iran today. The US supported the Afghanis until they defeated the Soviets and then we dropped them and allowed the Taliban to take over. The US supports the genocide of Israel which set off all this jihad business. The list goes on and on. We, the United States government and big business, need to clean up our own house before we go pointing fingers at anyone. Because of his political leanings Mike Moore chose to target the Republicans. Someone else targets the Democrats. Big deal. There is not a shred of honor or integrity in the entire administration. Anyone who displays such traits either quits or gets booted. A lot of people had hopes for Colin Powell but his presentation to the UN showed that any shred of integrity he had he abandoned. People think Mike Moore manipulates things so people think officials are saying something they're not? The following old joke is truly appropos. "How do you know when a politician/business executive is lying?" "Their lips are moving." There is also another old saying, "Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me." I really take that one to heart after 8 years in the military and 33.5 months of Viet Nam time. If I get fooled again it will not be because I failed to get all the FACTS of a matter. I will certainly never believe either government or big business without a thorough examination of everything they say. They are "bottom line" entities and the only thing which matters to those types is money and power. People be damned. Environment be damned. Right and truth be damned. Just so you folks know what I am, I am 59 years old, have 8 years military service including time in the Nam, have children and grandchildren, am disabled since the Nam and live well below the poverty level (in the United States), do not involve myself in partisan politics for reasons of religion and logic, am not patriotic if patriotism means "us and them" but am patriotic if that means "we" and that "we" includes everyone worldwide, believe that "the bottom line" thinking is evil, believe that the lives of me and mine are no more or less important than that of them and theirs. If folks want to take pot shots at Mike Moore that is well and good, but you really ought to declare yourselves for what you are which is just as partisan as Mike. Mike has staked out his territory and declared his interests. He makes films and writes books. He is a political satirist and humorist. That is how he fights what he considers evil. Politicians, on the other hand, are only interested in fighting evil when it is to their benefit, when it accrues them money or power. Same same big business. If you want to lump yourselves in with them then by all means do so, but you really ought to declare that you share the same lack of ethics and mores which they do. It would be good to remember that only that which is wrong needs to be justified. That which is good and right and true stands on its own with no justification required. Happy Happy, Gustl Thursday, 01 July, 2004, 19:58:29, you wrote: rcn> I applaud your attempt to discredit the source rather than to rcn> make any attempt whatsoever to discredit the arguement or the rcn> premise itself. But here are some more reputable sources, rcn> irregardless of the fact that the site I linked had a number of rcn> reference sources. rcn> http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/0422nra3.shtml rcn> And here is the link of how Moore edited hestons speech entirely and spliced the sentences to create an entirely new speech. rcn> http://www.hardylaw.net/Bowlingtranscript.html rcn> He has a link on there with the actual transcript, and you can throw in BFC if you want to check Moore's new version. And here is another anti-Moore link corraborating the Flint incident. I rcn> don't need a source for that though, slow down your DVD player and do it frame by frame. Moore puts together a sequence of scenes to make it look like Heston is in Flint immediately after the rcn> death of the little girl. He actually says "Just as he did after the Columbine shooting, Charlton Heston showed up in Flint, to have a big pro-gun rally." rcn> But, from: rcn> http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=859 rcn> "When I spoke to Moore last week, he confirmed Hardyâs point about the date of the speech, but angrily denied the allegation that he had misled viewers." rcn> Moore actually admits the date was off. How does he get off saying he didn't try to mislead people. rcn> As for the civilian casualties, there are only a reported maximum of about 11,300 according to rcn> http://www.iraqbodycount.net rcn> Most of the deaths are by cluster bombs and the initial missile attacks. But go check out the database, those suicide and car bombers are killing more Iraqi's than americans. When you kill rcn> 30-100 people per bomb trying to get back at the American's, your seriously hurting your own people. Given the 325,000 killed in Vietnam and lets not forget the millions from WWII. I do not rcn> condone the civilian deaths, and I think we still have a long way to go, but war does have casualties, and I think there were significant improvements so far. rcn> Randall Sanborn -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli ******** The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters" ******** Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen, da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewšhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. ******** Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin ******** The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! 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