date:20051014


Mike,

Ugly is your addition and I love Americans, the only thing
that I do not like is their foreign policies, energy policies.
and the political/economy corruption by the US corporations.

By the way, I also like the French. My daughter in law and
grandchildren are French.

Hakan

At 23:21 14/10/2005, you wrote:
>!! What about us ugly Americans?
>
>Hakan Falk wrote:
>>
>>I really like this list and its members, including the French
>>and Canadian French. LOL
>>
>>It is fun with the sparks and the humor.
>>
>>Hakan
>>
>>At 20:52 14/10/2005, you wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>I generally take a shower once a month whether I need it or not.
>>>(in the summer of course, in the winter we can take snow baths every day)
>>>
>>>PS for all you foreigners. underwear can be
>>>recycled four times (inside out, back and front)
>>>this is of course common sense to Canadians but
>>>I am sensitive to the international nature of this list.
>>>
>>>Joe
>>>
>>>Frantz DESPREZ wrote:
>>>

Mike Weaver a écrit :



>
>M. Falk:
>
>As a person with (minor) French ancestry, I am shocked and offended at
>your suggestion that the French do not bathe regularly.
>I challenge you to defend yourself in a duel of honor.  Shampoo at
>fifty yards, the first one to achieve a glossy sheen to be declared
>the winner.
>I name as my seconds Vidal Sasoon and the Breck girl.  If the first
>duel is not satisfactory, we will rinse and repeat.
>
>Prepare to meet your suds.
>
>M. Weaver
>
>
>

M. Weaver,

I am very grateful of your sollicitude, but be careful, scandinavians
are famous for their weapons of mass desinfection.
They could invite you into a steam bath until you've been cooked, before
roll you in snow or dive in icy water.
None a civilized gentleman as you surely are can resist such a barbarian
treatment.
And since Volvo refused to married Renault, we are in bad t(h)erms.

M. Desprez
( with half of my ancestry from Normandy, so Hakan is maybe a cousin of
mine)

>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Getting Ready for Winter

2005-10-14 Thread robert luis rabello

Doug Turner wrote:

> Hi Robert:
> 
> I've used red clover as a cover crop in the fall.  It doesn't grow too
> much, fixes a little nitrogen, and is relatively easy to turn over in the
> spring.  I have not tried using clover for an entire growing season but I
> don't see why it wouldn't work.  The red clover was suggested by my
> father-in-law who has a cash crop / dairy operation in eastern Ontario.

That plant grows naturally around here.  I have a garden path FULL of 
red clover!

> As for gardening methods, I became a convert to the "square foot" method
> about 10 years ago.  There was a television series on PBS that piqued my
> interest so I purchased the companion book, "Square Foot Gardening," by Mel
> Bartholomew (ISBN:0-87857-341-0 paperback version).

Yep, I've seen it.

> With a little careful planning, I've found that our basic 10 foot by 25
> foot vegetable plot is more than enough for my wife and I as well a few
> treats for the neighbours.

We have four planting boxes, each 12 X 4 feet, in addition to a 30 X 
60 garden area.  This year we had so much produce, we simply gave 
quite a bit of it away.  (Though my eldest son actually sold some of 
our vegetables!)  Our freezer is packed full of beans, shredded beets 
and peas.  We have over 100 pounds of potatoes, plus far more carrots 
than I can imagine eating, all stored in the garage where its dark and 
cool.  My sweetheart made black currant jelly, too!  Though the corn 
plants grew to a good size this year, the cob texture was a bit tough, 
and some of the plants didn't produce full pods.  Our cabbage is 
delicious, though quite a few plants suffered aphid infestation.  We 
had some apples and lots of strawberries.  Squash didn't grow as well 
this year as it did last, but we still had WAY MORE than we could use 
and gave most of it away.

Considering that we started with clay muck two years ago, I think 
we're doing well!

Thanks for your advice, Doug.  I think we're on the same wavelength.

robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/

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Re: [Biofuel] Grey water heat recovery and low tech Solar collectors????

2005-10-14 Thread Michael Redler


Is there a way to turn excess glycerin into perfume?
 
That might save some energy too!
 
MikeHakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I really like this list and its members, including the Frenchand Canadian French. LOLIt is fun with the sparks and the humor.HakanAt 20:52 14/10/2005, you wrote:>I generally take a shower once a month whether I need it or not.>(in the summer of course, in the winter we can take snow baths every day)>>PS for all you foreigners. underwear can be >recycled four times (inside out, back and front) >this is of course common sense to Canadians but >I am sensitive to the international nature of this list.>>Joe>>Frantz DESPREZ wrote:Mike Weaver a écrit :>>M. Falk:>>As a person with (minor) French ancestry, I am shocked and offended at>>>your suggestion that the
 French do not bathe regularly.>>>I challenge you to defend yourself in a duel of honor. Shampoo at>>>fifty yards, the first one to achieve a glossy sheen to be declared>>>the winner.>>>I name as my seconds Vidal Sasoon and the Breck girl. If the first>>>duel is not satisfactory, we will rinse and repeat.>>Prepare to meet your suds.>>M. Weaver>>M. Weaver,I am very grateful of your sollicitude, but be careful, scandinavians>>are famous for their weapons of mass desinfection.>>They could invite you into a steam bath until you've been cooked, before>>roll you in snow or dive in icy water.>>None a civilized gentleman as you surely are can resist such a barbarian>>treatment.>>And since Volvo refused to married Renault, we are in
 bad t(h)erms.M. Desprez>>( with half of my ancestry from Normandy, so Hakan is maybe a cousin of>>mine)___
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Re: [Biofuel] first mini test batch on the way

Hi everyone. I meant to start a new thread with my story but hit send
before I remembered, whoops.
On 10/14/05, des <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Looks like the bug's about to bite you!  (as in opening doors to another  
> world...!)
Yes I believe you are right. I think around here they call it, utro
mondo. One of the things that is really cool is that I found a diesel
car, Peugeot 505 S, with very little cash outlay, so now I have
something to use biodiesel in.
>I've enjoyed this post, and can feel your excitement. My 3rd
> full size (25 gallon) batch is washing quietly at this >moment...
Yes I can't wait to get to the mechanical stage where I too can try my
hand at making the equipment I salvage work for me. I have family
visiting from the east coast until tomorrow. So that's when I begin. I
think the most challenging part is going to be mixing the sodium
methoxide. I found the detergent bottle with two caps and I already
have lots of tubing and connectors in a large plumbing kit. I have
already made my first chemical resistant pipe fitting connection on a
plastic drum which was for  photo chemicals. Sweet.
> Another possible option of buying methanol at retail, but still >at a lower 
> cost, If there are any truck stops, or mechanics >that work on big rigs, or 
> auto parts stores that carry materials  >for them, look into  brake line 
> drier (moisture absorbent).  The >jug I looked at indicates
> that it is methanol, but the jug was less than a gallon, and >$8.00. This in 
> an auto parts store.  The other possible >sources mentioned above
> may give you a better deal.
Yeah, $8.00 per gallon, sheesh. I bit of calling to oil & gas
dealerships will hopefully get me a better price. Either way, I'm in.
Soon I'll be one of the seasoned biodieselers. Modifying my way to bliss.
Thanks Doug
Truly,
Brian Rodgers

> doug swanson
>
>
>
> Brian Rodgers wrote:
> > Hi all
> > Well I am finally ready to try a mini test batch, yipee!
> > This is an excerpt from my morning newsletter. The names have been
> > changed to protect the innocent, hehe.
> > As I was leaving work I remembered that it was Thursday and if I was
> > to try my first batch of biodiesel this weekend I needed to get some
> > lye from the hardware store before it closed. They didn't carry Red
> > Devil Lye, the preferred product, but they did have several bottles of
> > caustic soda crystals under the brand name of Roto. I read the
> > ingredients several times and happily paid the clerk the $3.99 and out
> > the door I went. Lye without methanol would be like clapping with one
> > hand I am told by the biodieselers. Where was I going to get methanol?
> > On down the street to the auto parts store with renewed confidence I
> > went. I had found what I hoped was a suitable substitute for the first
> > ingredient while the store was shutting off the overhead lights. Into
> > the parts store and a bee-line for the liquids. On the shelf where the
> > fuel line de-icers were was several bottles of Heet. Checking the
> > ingredients I spied the words, "Contains methyl alcohol." This is the
> > stuff, methanol. I spent a whopping $2.00 more (2 little bottles) and
> > off I went with everything I need to begin my first mini test batch of
> > biodiesel.
> >
> > So now I hear from Hugh in Los Lunas, by Albuquerque that he has a 55
> > gallon drum and pump for mineral oil. Yes, yes Hugh this is perfect,
> > please save it for me. Bring it next time you come up this way. Also,
> > Eric said he has a fairly decent chemistry setup left over from a
> > friend's pipe dream project which never saw the light of day. Beakers
> > and heaters and things I don't recall the names of. Please, please
> > pretty please folks do save anything you have for lab work. Let me get
> > these mini-test batches under my belt and I will begin to work out
> > just what my biodiesel lab will need to get this process geared up.
> > Another friend  Rand has offered help as well. I thank you all. This
> > newsletter is so very rewarding. I do a bunch of research while I keep
> > this chronicle posted to you all and we come together with the stuff
> > to make it all come about.
> >
> > Oh yeah, I took the time to go eat lunch yesterday afternoon at my
> > favorite restaurant, Little Moon (Chinese American buffet). As I was
> > paying the bill I saw the owner behind the counter.  I introduced
> > myself and asked what they did with their WVO (waste veggie oil)? He
> > said his name was Tony and he didn't do anything with the used fryer
> > oil and he definitely did not throw it in the dumpster. Ok I said we
> > might be able to help each other out. How much WVO does the restaurant
> > produce in a week? He said he just got rid of all that he had (not on
> > the parking lot) but if I was to come back in one week, he should have
> > five, five gallon containers full. Holy Teriyaki Batman! Did I just
> > hit the jackpot? No wonder their food is so tasty, five gallons of
> > grease per day? Far be

Re: [Biofuel] Why aren't there more manufacturers?

2005-10-14 Thread Jason and Katie


- Original Message -
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Which stage do you think we're at by now, we backyard biofuels
> homebrewing tinkers? For one thing we're brewing up millions and
> millions of gallons of fuel all over the world, who cares about
> manufacturers? Local vs central? No match (IMHO).
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith

well, i've been  telling anyone who will listen for more than 3 minutes
about us, and so far i have had nothing but "social support"
('congratulations, good luck, etc.) but my present supervisor seems to be
VERY interested in this because the company fleet, although small, travels
heavily, and we have been having problems supplying fuel, cash advances are
our present solution, but that is an accounting mess.
if a small company becomes a "homebrewer" does it qualify as homebrewing? i
guarantee the main office would LOVE to stiff the fuel companies right now,
but it is just a matter of convincing them to produce...
i'm still trying, and will be until it works (or i get fired).

the tinker gives a damn,

jason

---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]


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Re: [Biofuel] Imagine if we could invent grid tied PV systems





The power companies around here seem pretty anti-grid tie.  I have BD
generator because the power goes off so often.

Zeke Yewdall wrote:

  He could take a walk a few blocks down from the whitehouse and see a
village of 18 solar houses this weekend.

http://www.eere.energy.gov/solar_decathlon/

These are all stand alone solar houses for the competition, because
PEPCO has no clue what a grid tied PV system is, and no desire to
learn

On 10/14/05, Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
  
 On that topic

 http://www.gridpoint.com/news/


 Zeke Yewdall wrote:
 Yeah, maybe he understands it more than we think, and he's just
frustrated about the complete lack of uniformity and perponderance of
red tape people in utility interconnection agreements...

On 10/14/05, Chip Mefford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Zeke Yewdall wrote:


 Um, they already exist, George


"I had an interesting opportunity to go see some research and

 I checked this quote, and it's word for word. Went off about
it to my office mate, who simple exclaimed "He's talking about
for the /rest/ of us" Whaddya mean? I ranted, "folks have
been doing this for years!" he replied simply "When did
you 'get on the internet' and when did most folks 'get
on the internet'?, maybe that's what he's talking about."

It's an interesting take, I think. Perhaps the prez /is/
talking about grid-tie "for the rest of us" as in a national
electrical code standard for the interface, power company
approved, across the board, etc etc. Not the horror of
on-again, off-again support like what the folks under
the dubious umbrella of Water and Power have been putting
up with.

Anyway, it's just a thought.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFDUA310STXFHxUucwRAqopAKCfzuPy49dk8X/Zo1OF+2xakKv84ACeKHXp
UClv13w9vk4xmcQhJJPODaM=
=+VK6
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [Biofuel] Imagine if we could invent grid tied PV systems





On that topic

http://www.gridpoint.com/news/

Zeke Yewdall wrote:

  Yeah, maybe he understands it more than we think, and he's just
frustrated about the complete lack of uniformity and perponderance of
red tape people in utility interconnection agreements...

On 10/14/05, Chip Mefford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
  
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Zeke Yewdall wrote:


  Um, they already exist, George


"I had an interesting opportunity to go see some research and
  

I checked this quote, and it's word for word. Went off about
it to my office mate, who simple exclaimed "He's talking about
for the /rest/ of us" Whaddya mean? I ranted, "folks have
been doing this for years!" he replied simply "When did
you 'get on the internet' and when did most folks 'get
on the internet'?, maybe that's what he's talking about."

It's an interesting take, I think. Perhaps the prez /is/
talking about grid-tie "for the rest of us" as in a national
electrical code standard for the interface, power company
approved, across the board, etc etc. Not the horror of
on-again, off-again support like what the folks under
the dubious umbrella of Water and Power have been putting
up with.

Anyway, it's just a thought.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFDUA310STXFHxUucwRAqopAKCfzuPy49dk8X/Zo1OF+2xakKv84ACeKHXp
UClv13w9vk4xmcQhJJPODaM=
=+VK6
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [Biofuel] Imagine if we could invent grid tied PV systems

2005-10-14 Thread Zeke Yewdall

He could take a walk a few blocks down from the whitehouse and see a
village of 18 solar houses this weekend.

http://www.eere.energy.gov/solar_decathlon/

These are all stand alone solar houses for the competition, because
PEPCO has no clue what a grid tied PV system is, and no desire to
learn

On 10/14/05, Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  On that topic
>
>  http://www.gridpoint.com/news/
>
>
>  Zeke Yewdall wrote:
>  Yeah, maybe he understands it more than we think, and he's just
> frustrated about the complete lack of uniformity and perponderance of
> red tape people in utility interconnection agreements...
>
> On 10/14/05, Chip Mefford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
>
>
>  Um, they already exist, George
>
>
> "I had an interesting opportunity to go see some research and
>
>  I checked this quote, and it's word for word. Went off about
> it to my office mate, who simple exclaimed "He's talking about
> for the /rest/ of us" Whaddya mean? I ranted, "folks have
> been doing this for years!" he replied simply "When did
> you 'get on the internet' and when did most folks 'get
> on the internet'?, maybe that's what he's talking about."
>
> It's an interesting take, I think. Perhaps the prez /is/
> talking about grid-tie "for the rest of us" as in a national
> electrical code standard for the interface, power company
> approved, across the board, etc etc. Not the horror of
> on-again, off-again support like what the folks under
> the dubious umbrella of Water and Power have been putting
> up with.
>
> Anyway, it's just a thought.
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFDUA310STXFHxUucwRAqopAKCfzuPy49dk8X/Zo1OF+2xakKv84ACeKHXp
> UClv13w9vk4xmcQhJJPODaM=
> =+VK6
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
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>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] what do you expect..was...Imagine if we could invent.....

You'll get no argument from me on most of this - the crazy thing is
that the US could still enjoy an enviable standard of living WITH
energy saving.
A hybrid diesel would allow for most of the "American Way of Life" -
not that I am a huge fans of cars, but in this large country it would
be hard to live out of the city w/o one. A well-built and insulated
house w/ solar and a BD or WVO heating system would cost little to
run. We could tap the huge underground collection of plumbing that
brings water to our houses for cooling; many areas could use ground
water loop systems. None of this is rocket science. It is, however,
kookiness to the nth degree. I think half the people in this country
do think like Cheney. I have a friend in the restaurant supply
business - he now spends over 900.00 a month on gas for his large SUV,
but, HE DOESN'T EVEN carry samples - he just wants to drive an SUV! I
told him I won't listen to anymore whining. Shut up, or buy a diesel
VW or similar.

Not all Americans are Bush/Cheney clones. We just have to get our act
together.

-Mike

Alt.EnergyNetwork wrote:

What do you expect from an oil man puppet. It is pretty sad when
he is not even aware that grid-tied solar and net metering have been around for a few years now.
On a 'positive' note...at least he "sees" a positive trend in his imagination.
Yes, it is disgusting the energy gluttony that exists in the U.S. compared to the rest of the world
and it doesn't have to be that way. "Darth" Cheney stated a few years ago that energy conservation may be a personal virtue but is not the basis for a sound energy policy. Well, coming from Mr Haliburton, that is no surprise.
A white house spokesperson (Ari Fleicher) when asked by a reporter if the president would consider increasing energy efficiency, improved fuel efficiency for vehicles and more sustainable development for America...in light of the fact that the U.S. uses so much energy compared to the rest of the world replied..."That's a big no. The president believes that it is the American way" (being energy hogs to support Mc mansions, Hummers, SUV's and an out of control unsustainable lifestyle)
Nothing has changed with the new energy (pork) bill. No incentives for increased fuel efficiency and gazillions
for big oil. Crumbs and lip service for alt. energy and an alledged hydrogen economy based on natural gas cracking and nuclear production of hydrogen that will still be controlled by big corps. The other energy bill package passed last week, doles out even more goodies to the dino dealers.
He is basically giving the green light to oil and coal concerns to drill where they want and pollute as much as they need to get more dirty energy...environmental and health concerns be damned.
Mean while cutting programs and funding for food stamp programs for the less fortunate, lunch programs for poor school children, health benefits for firemen who have become sick from working at ground zero (911), after school programs for poor childrenthe list goes on and on and on and on.
Oh, I forgot.. he also intends to cut geothermal, renewable energy and solar energy programs
from the DOE to continue to pay for the war and rebuilding New Orleans. Meanwhile he is adding further cuts to the army core of engineers for wet land reabilitation and flood controls, in addition to the previous cuts that he made a couple of years ago even though he was warned that levys and anti flooding measures needed to be urgently upgraded. The "preverbial angry white men" better get a grip on reality because it's not a pretty picture
for us, our children and future generations.

some further reading...pretty scary

The Heat Death of American Dreams

< http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/25351/ >

regards
tallex

---Original Message---
From: Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imagine if we could invent grid tied PV systems
Sent: 14 Oct '05 15:31

Voter turnout is key. Unfourtunately, a large pergentage of thoseturning
out are the proverbial "angry white male (or person)" who wishto preserve
the unsustainable status quo. That and the fact that theDemocrats have
been in disarray for years doesn't help.

I did hear an interesting comment form an older acquiantance, whopointed
out that he'd heard all the doom and gloom in the 70's, andthen, it didn't
happen. OPEC collapsed and energy prices went down. Alot of people think
this is the same. A blip. Even so, that does notaddress the issues of
global warming,
basic energy inequality, the US, with not even 10% of the globalpoplation
consumes at least 25 - 30 % of the oil. Mostly to sustainlife on a scale
unimaginable
for the rest of the world.

I've spent enough time in the 3rd world to know the race is not for
abigger car or house, but for water, food, cooking energy and shelter. In
rural Africa it is not unusual to spent an hour or 2 just gettingwater,
then scrounging an already deforest

Re: [Biofuel] Grey water heat recovery and low tech Solar collectors????





!! What about us ugly Americans?

Hakan Falk wrote:

  I really like this list and its members, including the French
and Canadian French. LOL

It is fun with the sparks and the humor.

Hakan

At 20:52 14/10/2005, you wrote:
  
  
I generally take a shower once a month whether I need it or not.
(in the summer of course, in the winter we can take snow baths every day)

PS for all you foreigners. underwear can be 
recycled four times (inside out, back and front) 
this is of course common sense to Canadians but 
I am sensitive to the international nature of this list.

Joe

Frantz DESPREZ wrote:


  Mike Weaver a écrit :


  
  
M. Falk:

As a person with (minor) French ancestry, I am shocked and offended at
your suggestion that the French do not bathe regularly.
I challenge you to defend yourself in a duel of honor.  Shampoo at
fifty yards, the first one to achieve a glossy sheen to be declared
the winner.
I name as my seconds Vidal Sasoon and the Breck girl.  If the first
duel is not satisfactory, we will rinse and repeat.

Prepare to meet your suds.

M. Weaver



  
  M. Weaver,

I am very grateful of your sollicitude, but be careful, scandinavians
are famous for their weapons of mass desinfection.
They could invite you into a steam bath until you've been cooked, before
roll you in snow or dive in icy water.
None a civilized gentleman as you surely are can resist such a barbarian
treatment.
And since Volvo refused to married Renault, we are in bad t(h)erms.

M. Desprez
( with half of my ancestry from Normandy, so Hakan is maybe a cousin of
mine)
  

  
  






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Re: [Biofuel] Grey water heat recovery and low tech Solar collectors????


I really like this list and its members, including the French
and Canadian French. LOL

It is fun with the sparks and the humor.

Hakan

At 20:52 14/10/2005, you wrote:
>I generally take a shower once a month whether I need it or not.
>(in the summer of course, in the winter we can take snow baths every day)
>
>PS for all you foreigners. underwear can be 
>recycled four times (inside out, back and front) 
>this is of course common sense to Canadians but 
>I am sensitive to the international nature of this list.
>
>Joe
>
>Frantz DESPREZ wrote:
>>
>>Mike Weaver a écrit :
>>
>>
>>>
>>>M. Falk:
>>>
>>>As a person with (minor) French ancestry, I am shocked and offended at
>>>your suggestion that the French do not bathe regularly.
>>>I challenge you to defend yourself in a duel of honor.  Shampoo at
>>>fifty yards, the first one to achieve a glossy sheen to be declared
>>>the winner.
>>>I name as my seconds Vidal Sasoon and the Breck girl.  If the first
>>>duel is not satisfactory, we will rinse and repeat.
>>>
>>>Prepare to meet your suds.
>>>
>>>M. Weaver
>>>
>>>
>>
>>M. Weaver,
>>
>>I am very grateful of your sollicitude, but be careful, scandinavians
>>are famous for their weapons of mass desinfection.
>>They could invite you into a steam bath until you've been cooked, before
>>roll you in snow or dive in icy water.
>>None a civilized gentleman as you surely are can resist such a barbarian
>>treatment.
>>And since Volvo refused to married Renault, we are in bad t(h)erms.
>>
>>M. Desprez
>>( with half of my ancestry from Normandy, so Hakan is maybe a cousin of
>>mine)







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Re: [Biofuel] Imagine if we could invent grid tied PV systems

2005-10-14 Thread Zeke Yewdall

Yeah, maybe he understands it more than we think, and he's just
frustrated about the complete lack of uniformity and perponderance of
red tape people in utility interconnection agreements...

On 10/14/05, Chip Mefford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> > Um, they already exist, George
> >
> >
> > "I had an interesting opportunity to go see some research and
>
> I checked this quote, and it's word for word. Went off about
> it to my office mate, who simple exclaimed "He's talking about
> for the /rest/ of us" Whaddya mean? I ranted, "folks have
> been doing this for years!" he replied simply "When did
> you 'get on the internet' and when did most folks 'get
> on the internet'?, maybe that's what he's talking about."
>
> It's an interesting take, I think. Perhaps the prez /is/
> talking about grid-tie "for the rest of us" as in a national
> electrical code standard for the interface, power company
> approved, across the board, etc etc. Not the horror of
> on-again, off-again support like what the folks under
> the dubious umbrella of Water and Power have been putting
> up with.
>
> Anyway, it's just a thought.
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFDUA310STXFHxUucwRAqopAKCfzuPy49dk8X/Zo1OF+2xakKv84ACeKHXp
> UClv13w9vk4xmcQhJJPODaM=
> =+VK6
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
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Re: [Biofuel] White LYE

2005-10-14 Thread Randy Brown

At a store nearby there selling 100% per lye but its in liquid I thought lye
only was a solid. what would added for it to be liquid?
Randy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bobby Clark
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 11:14 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] White LYE


I work with chemicals in the lab and the NaOH (lye) that we use is in larger
pellets. Those pellets are not quite white (they are somewhat
clear/transluscent), however, lye from the soap companies is usually in
smaller pellets/flakes and should defintiely appear white. I got my last
batch from the soap company and according to the MSDS is is 99% pure and it
appears white.
I hope this helps,
Bobby Clark


>From: "michael skinner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] White LYE
>Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 02:34:54 +
>
>I'm a chemist and have used pure NaOH and it is white.
>
>Original Message Follows
>From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>To: 
>Subject: [Biofuel]  White LYE
>Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:23:01 -0500
>
>I read somewhere that pure lye is not white but sort of opaque and the
>white
>lye is not pure and you need to use more. About 25% more. Does anyone have
>any information on this?
> I buy lye from a soap making shop and there is no marking on the
>container.
>
>
>
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[Biofuel] RRe: White LYE

michael skinner wrote:

>the ability to detect the formation of a chalky powder woudl be hard.

No, it's easy actually. If you're using pearls they just lose their 
translucence and start looking chalky.

>If you grind the pearly pellets from chem lab you get a white powder 
>or granuals
>
>the stuff from the hardware store will probably look white.

Usually flakes, looks the same as pearls, pearly-white or chalky-white.

>the most import comment ahs to do with them looking lie they are 
>melting as they absorb water from the air.
>
>this is going to be very suspect to the humidity of where you live.
>
>bottom line keep the container tightly closed possible put it in a 
>extra plastic bag.

And when you measure it out?

It's not a problem Michael, biodieselers have been finding good ways 
round high humidity difficulties for years.

The most important comment was that carbonisation doesn't matter 
anyway if you use the same lye for titrating the batch as you use for 
processing it.

Best wishes

Keith



>Original Message Follows
>From: "Bobby Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] White LYE
>Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 11:14:22 -0400
>
>I work with chemicals in the lab and the NaOH (lye) that we use is in larger
>pellets. Those pellets are not quite white (they are somewhat
>clear/transluscent), however, lye from the soap companies is usually in
>smaller pellets/flakes and should defintiely appear white. I got my last
>batch from the soap company and according to the MSDS is is 99% pure and it
>appears white.
>I hope this helps,
>Bobby Clark
>
>
> >From: "michael skinner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] White LYE
> >Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 02:34:54 +
> >
> >I'm a chemist and have used pure NaOH and it is white.
> >
> >Original Message Follows
> >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >To: 
> >Subject: [Biofuel]  White LYE
> >Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:23:01 -0500
> >
> >I read somewhere that pure lye is not white but sort of opaque and the
> >white
> >lye is not pure and you need to use more. About 25% more. Does anyone have
> >any information on this?
> > I buy lye from a soap making shop and there is no marking on the
> >container.


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[Biofuel] try linux

2005-10-14 Thread Roland

concerniong the virus problems: try linux. I started up my pc from 
cd-rom with a live linux installation: No change on the HD is made. And 
you have a working version of linux in 10 minutes. Meaning internet 
worrking, browsers, e-mail clients an office program etc. You move out 
of the dangerzone. What do you need windows for anyway. You can download 
Knoppix or Linspire from the net, burn an image etc. It's great. Btw 
great information from you guys on the other side, me being in Europe, 
Amsterdam. I also heard about the problem getting diesel engines for 
normal cars, like f.i. a volkswagen golf diesel turbo.  Could maybe 
setup some im/export exchange. If theres is interest let me know. I'll 
keep listening  

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Re: [Biofuel] 1999 dodge 2500 diesel fuel mileage and misc.

2005-10-14 Thread Michele Stephenson

i have a 99 dodge 2500.  if you are wanting to convert to a B-type, you 
might want to do some more research.  the fuel injuector is 
cooled/lubricated by excess fuel with a return line whereas the previous 
year models were cooled/lubricated by the crank case oil.  this is my delima 
now that i don't have time to work on.

the abs light might be something simple.  drive it again and if the rear 
wheels or front wheels lock up it is the speed sensor.  $45 to replace the 
back.  it's on the differential at the top.  i have not had to replace the 
front one.
i have a stick so i can't say anything about the auto except have it 
serviced and it has always been a sore spot for those pulling or wanting 
more power.
this model doesn't have a throttle position sensor, but rather an APPS 
accelerator pedal position sensor.  same thing? not hardly.  the first is 
<$100.  the later is not serviceable and >$400 at the stealership.  when 
looking for parts try to go to a cummins dealer much cheaper.
the lift pump on my truck has been replaced 3x and is needing another one. 
~$175.  every one of these trucks have this problem.  the pump is on the 
motor and too far away from the tank.  many add another pump inline by the 
tank and it solves this problem.
be sure to get an exhaust gas temp and a fuel pressure guage (imperitive!). 
if the LP goes out not enough fuel will reach the injector pump to cool and 
lubricate and you'll then spend ~$1400 replacing that pump as well.

turbodieselregister.com  i am a member and it has saved me thousands.
dodgeram.org  is also an exceptional site for specs and such.

if it was me i would buy a 98 (12 valve) or earlier. many differences and 
good project/challenge for biofuel.

good luck. michele

- Original Message - 
From: "Felipe Navarrete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 9:35 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] 1999 dodge 2500 diesel fuel mileage and misc.


>I may very well be purchasing a 1999 dodge 2500 with the cummins
> diesel engine tomorrow.  If anyone has any experience with one of these
> please
> share.
>
> Specs:
>
> engine: cummins diesel
> Automatic transmission
> miles 140,000
>
> ABS light is on.  Was told is was a sensor by a mechanic and the dealer.
> $100 repair.
>
> Its in good mechanical condition but has some cosmetic damage inside.
>
>
>
> I currently drive a 1990 civic and I believe I get about 30 miles to the
> gallon.
> I have a 20-45 minute drive to work which comes out to about 30 dollars a
> week.  How much more will it cost to run the truck on regular diesel?
>
> Can I do biodiesel and or SVO/WVO with this truck?
>
> Any help appreciated,
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Felipe
>
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Getting Ready for Winter

2005-10-14 Thread Doug Turner

Hi Robert:

I've used red clover as a cover crop in the fall.  It doesn't grow too
much, fixes a little nitrogen, and is relatively easy to turn over in the
spring.  I have not tried using clover for an entire growing season but I
don't see why it wouldn't work.  The red clover was suggested by my
father-in-law who has a cash crop / dairy operation in eastern Ontario.
As for gardening methods, I became a convert to the "square foot" method
about 10 years ago.  There was a television series on PBS that piqued my
interest so I purchased the companion book, "Square Foot Gardening," by Mel
Bartholomew (ISBN:0-87857-341-0 paperback version).
With a little careful planning, I've found that our basic 10 foot by 25
foot vegetable plot is more than enough for my wife and I as well a few
treats for the neighbours.  No chemicals, easy access for weeding and great
yields.  Here's a typical example.  This year I grew a supersweet variety of
corn the yield was 22 cobs from a 4 foot square plot which contained 16
plants.  I applied compost as suggested in the book and a teaspoon of blood
meal in the spring when the plants were about 20cm tall.

Hope this helps,

Doug Turner
in zone 6

- Original Message - 
From: "robert luis rabello" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 1:13 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Getting Ready for Winter


> pile, I will collect a few more truck loads of barn litter, then
> rototill the garden plot for the winter.  Does anyone have a
> suggestion for a "cover crop"?  I'd like to keep the weeds down, and
> something that fixes nitrogen (especially where we had our corn

> I've found that my garden is a lot of work, but at my age that
> doesn't really hurt me.  My eldest son is not in school right now
SNIPPED


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Re: [Biofuel] Keith I think you have a virus....why not linux?

2005-10-14 Thread Roland





concerning virus
why don't you use linux for your e-mail and related stuf. For instance
try Knoppix or Linspire. I started my pc from cd-rom and in less than
10 minutes i got linux working, internetconnection, sound, e-mail,
browsers, editors, etc. Or have Linux dual booting on your pc if you
really need windows. (What for?) A way to move out of the dangerzone
greetings

Juan Boveda schreef:

  Hello Joe and all.
My antivirus AVG from Grisoft detected the same virus inside an attached 
file with the name body.zip and it sended that message to a virus vault 
were I already deleted. I noticed it took the biofuel list addresses.
I do not think the address is the real because virus tend to use somebody 
else's address to hide its real server.
Regards.
Juan
Paraguay
-Mensaje original-
De:	Joe Street [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Enviado el:	Viernes 14 de Octubre de 2005 8:50 AM
Para:	Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Asunto:	[Biofuel] Keith I think you have a virus.


Hi Keith;

I got the following warning form symantec about a message I recieved
from you.  Was this message in response to the email I sent last week
regarding the new biodiesel process?

Joe

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
Symantec AntiVirus found a virus in an attachment from 

  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED].
  
  

Attachment:  body.zip
Threat: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Action taken:  Quarantine succeeded
File status:  Infected


The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a binary 

  
  attachment.
  
  



  
  

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Re: [Biofuel] Keith I think you have a virus.....Do not open body.zip

Hallo Chip

>Keith Addison wrote:
> >>Hello Joe and all.
> >>My antivirus AVG from Grisoft detected the same virus inside an attached
> >>file with the name body.zip and it sended that message to a virus vault
> >>were I already deleted. I noticed it took the biofuel list addresses.
> >>I do not think the address is the real because virus tend to use somebody
> >>else's address to hide its real server.
> >
> >
> > Hello Juan
> >
> > It didn't come via the Biofuel list server either. They leave a 
>false trail.
>
>E, ummm,
>
>I think it in fact did come via the biofuel list server.
>
>I get my list traffic off a server that I administer, and
>hence have access to the maillogs, and I keep verbose
>logs.
>
>The message with the attachment, and there was an attachment,
>originated from 70.85.95.186, and that IP address I have a
>pretty high degree of confidence isn't spoofed, as it's
>TLS signature is good. It's the same box that has
>sent all my other biofuel list traffic. Of that I am
>pretty confident. Absolutely? No. a packets just
>a packet.

Here's the archives version:

>http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/20 
>05-October/005957.html
>[Biofuel] Server Report
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] keith at journeytoforever.org
>Fri Oct 14 04:04:11 EDT 2005
>
>The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a 
>binary attachment.
>
>-- next part --
>A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>Name: body.zip
>Type: application/octet-stream
>Size: 50290 bytes
>Desc: not available
>Url : 
>http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/att 
>achments/20051014/db127131/body.obj

Best

Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] Keith I think you have a virus.....Do not open body.zip

2005-10-14 Thread Chip Mefford

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Keith Addison wrote:
>>Hello Joe and all.
>>My antivirus AVG from Grisoft detected the same virus inside an attached
>>file with the name body.zip and it sended that message to a virus vault
>>were I already deleted. I noticed it took the biofuel list addresses.
>>I do not think the address is the real because virus tend to use somebody
>>else's address to hide its real server.
> 
> 
> Hello Juan
> 
> It didn't come via the Biofuel list server either. They leave a false trail.

E, ummm,

I think it in fact did come via the biofuel list server.

I get my list traffic off a server that I administer, and
hence have access to the maillogs, and I keep verbose
logs.

The message with the attachment, and there was an attachment,
originated from 70.85.95.186, and that IP address I have a
pretty high degree of confidence isn't spoofed, as it's
TLS signature is good. It's the same box that has
sent all my other biofuel list traffic. Of that I am
pretty confident. Absolutely? No. a packets just
a packet.
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bSNc+84p83+4LTc9xVvFgJM=
=JmTY
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Re: [Biofuel] White LYE

2005-10-14 Thread michael skinner

the ability to detect the formation of a chalky powder woudl be hard.  If 
you grind the pearly pellets from chem lab you get a white powder or 
granuals

the stuff from the hardware store will probably look white.

the most import comment ahs to do with them looking lie they are melting as 
they absorb water from the air.

this is going to be very suspect to the humidity of where you live.

bottom line keep the container tightly closed possible put it in a extra 
plastic bag.

Original Message Follows
From: "Bobby Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] White LYE
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 11:14:22 -0400

I work with chemicals in the lab and the NaOH (lye) that we use is in larger
pellets. Those pellets are not quite white (they are somewhat
clear/transluscent), however, lye from the soap companies is usually in
smaller pellets/flakes and should defintiely appear white. I got my last
batch from the soap company and according to the MSDS is is 99% pure and it
appears white.
I hope this helps,
Bobby Clark


 >From: "michael skinner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 >Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 >To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] White LYE
 >Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 02:34:54 +
 >
 >I'm a chemist and have used pure NaOH and it is white.
 >
 >Original Message Follows
 >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 >Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 >To: 
 >Subject: [Biofuel]  White LYE
 >Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:23:01 -0500
 >
 >I read somewhere that pure lye is not white but sort of opaque and the
 >white
 >lye is not pure and you need to use more. About 25% more. Does anyone have
 >any information on this?
 > I buy lye from a soap making shop and there is no marking on the
 >container.
 >
 >
 >
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Re: [Biofuel] Imagine if we could invent grid tied PV systems

2005-10-14 Thread Chip Mefford

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Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> Um, they already exist, George
> 
> 
> "I had an interesting opportunity to go see some research and

I checked this quote, and it's word for word. Went off about
it to my office mate, who simple exclaimed "He's talking about
for the /rest/ of us" Whaddya mean? I ranted, "folks have
been doing this for years!" he replied simply "When did
you 'get on the internet' and when did most folks 'get
on the internet'?, maybe that's what he's talking about."

It's an interesting take, I think. Perhaps the prez /is/
talking about grid-tie "for the rest of us" as in a national
electrical code standard for the interface, power company
approved, across the board, etc etc. Not the horror of
on-again, off-again support like what the folks under
the dubious umbrella of Water and Power have been putting
up with.

Anyway, it's just a thought.

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Re: [Biofuel] Grey water heat recovery and low tech Solar collectors????

2005-10-14 Thread Joe Street





I generally take a shower once a month whether I need it or not. 
(in the summer of course, in the winter we can take snow baths every
day)

PS for all you foreigners. underwear can be recycled four times
(inside out, back and front) this is of course common sense to
Canadians but I am sensitive to the international nature of this list.

Joe

Frantz DESPREZ wrote:

  Mike Weaver a écrit :

  
  
M. Falk:

As a person with (minor) French ancestry, I am shocked and offended at 
your suggestion that the French do not bathe regularly.
I challenge you to defend yourself in a duel of honor.  Shampoo at 
fifty yards, the first one to achieve a glossy sheen to be declared 
the winner.
I name as my seconds Vidal Sasoon and the Breck girl.  If the first 
duel is not satisfactory, we will rinse and repeat.

Prepare to meet your suds.

M. Weaver


  
  M. Weaver,

I am very grateful of your sollicitude, but be careful, scandinavians 
are famous for their weapons of mass desinfection.
They could invite you into a steam bath until you've been cooked, before 
roll you in snow or dive in icy water.
None a civilized gentleman as you surely are can resist such a barbarian 
treatment.
And since Volvo refused to married Renault, we are in bad t(h)erms.

M. Desprez
( with half of my ancestry from Normandy, so Hakan is maybe a cousin of 
mine)


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Re: [Biofuel] Keith I think you have a virus.....

2005-10-14 Thread des

Looks like the bug's about to bite you!  (as in opening doors to another 
world...!)  I've enjoyed this post, and can feel your excitement. My 3rd 
full size (25 gallon) batch is washing quietly at this moment...

Another possible option of buying methanol at retail, but still at a 
lower cost, If there are any truck stops, or mechanics that work on big 
rigs, or auto parts stores that carry materials for them, look into 
brake line drier (moisture absorbent).  The jug I looked at indicates 
that it is methanol, but the jug was less than a gallon, and $8.00. 
This in an auto parts store.  The other possible sources mentioned above 
may give you a better deal.


doug swanson



Brian Rodgers wrote:
> Hi all
> Well I am finally ready to try a mini test batch, yipee!
> This is an excerpt from my morning newsletter. The names have been
> changed to protect the innocent, hehe.
> As I was leaving work I remembered that it was Thursday and if I was
> to try my first batch of biodiesel this weekend I needed to get some
> lye from the hardware store before it closed. They didn't carry Red
> Devil Lye, the preferred product, but they did have several bottles of
> caustic soda crystals under the brand name of Roto. I read the
> ingredients several times and happily paid the clerk the $3.99 and out
> the door I went. Lye without methanol would be like clapping with one
> hand I am told by the biodieselers. Where was I going to get methanol?
> On down the street to the auto parts store with renewed confidence I
> went. I had found what I hoped was a suitable substitute for the first
> ingredient while the store was shutting off the overhead lights. Into
> the parts store and a bee-line for the liquids. On the shelf where the
> fuel line de-icers were was several bottles of Heet. Checking the
> ingredients I spied the words, "Contains methyl alcohol." This is the
> stuff, methanol. I spent a whopping $2.00 more (2 little bottles) and
> off I went with everything I need to begin my first mini test batch of
> biodiesel.
> 
> So now I hear from Hugh in Los Lunas, by Albuquerque that he has a 55
> gallon drum and pump for mineral oil. Yes, yes Hugh this is perfect,
> please save it for me. Bring it next time you come up this way. Also,
> Eric said he has a fairly decent chemistry setup left over from a
> friend's pipe dream project which never saw the light of day. Beakers
> and heaters and things I don't recall the names of. Please, please
> pretty please folks do save anything you have for lab work. Let me get
> these mini-test batches under my belt and I will begin to work out
> just what my biodiesel lab will need to get this process geared up.
> Another friend  Rand has offered help as well. I thank you all. This
> newsletter is so very rewarding. I do a bunch of research while I keep
> this chronicle posted to you all and we come together with the stuff
> to make it all come about.
> 
> Oh yeah, I took the time to go eat lunch yesterday afternoon at my
> favorite restaurant, Little Moon (Chinese American buffet). As I was
> paying the bill I saw the owner behind the counter.  I introduced
> myself and asked what they did with their WVO (waste veggie oil)? He
> said his name was Tony and he didn't do anything with the used fryer
> oil and he definitely did not throw it in the dumpster. Ok I said we
> might be able to help each other out. How much WVO does the restaurant
> produce in a week? He said he just got rid of all that he had (not on
> the parking lot) but if I was to come back in one week, he should have
> five, five gallon containers full. Holy Teriyaki Batman! Did I just
> hit the jackpot? No wonder their food is so tasty, five gallons of
> grease per day? Far be it for me to question the goose with the golden
> eggs.
> 
> If this pans out like the owner of this restaurant suggests, I have a
> source for oil that will be enough for me to create twenty gallons per
> week of fuel for my diesel car! Only the cost of labor, energy to heat
> the processor drums and the methanol. This latter is going to be the
> tough one to source out. Race tracks sell methanol but we don't have a
> race track. I understand that the gulf coast area is where to get
> methanol from. I have heard it sells for less than two dollars per
> gallon in Louisiana. It might cost the home brew biodiesel producer
> $5.00 to $7.00 per gallon if the source wants to price gouge. How much
> methanol will I need? Near as I can figure, 120ml of methanol to
> 1-liter of WVO. Some of the methanol is recoverable. By the way, many
> of you have heard that biodiesel can harm your engine. Methanol mixed
> with lye makes sodium methoxide, very caustic stuff. You don't want to
> be putting any of that in your gas tank. If you have been following my
> biodiesel process, you will see that several wash cycles are used.
> Litmus paper is employed to make certain the ph of the biodiesel is
> neutral before we put it in the tank.
> 
> So there it is.
> I am stoke

[Biofuel] what do you expect..was...Imagine if we could invent.....

2005-10-14 Thread Alt.EnergyNetwork



What do you expect from an oil man puppet. It is pretty sad when
he is not even aware that grid-tied solar and net metering have been around for 
a few years now.
On a 'positive' note...at least he "sees" a positive trend in his imagination.
Yes, it is disgusting the energy gluttony that exists in the U.S.  compared to 
the rest of the world
and it doesn't have to be that way. "Darth" Cheney stated a few years ago that 
energy conservation may be a personal virtue but is not the basis for a sound 
energy policy. Well, coming from Mr Haliburton, that is no surprise.
A white house spokesperson (Ari Fleicher) when asked by a reporter if the 
president would consider increasing energy efficiency, improved fuel efficiency 
for vehicles and more sustainable development for America...in light of the 
fact that the U.S. uses so much energy compared to the rest of the world 
replied..."That's a big no. The president believes that it is the American way" 
(being energy hogs to support Mc mansions, Hummers, SUV's and an out of control 
unsustainable lifestyle)
Nothing has changed with the new energy (pork) bill. No incentives for 
increased fuel efficiency and gazillions
for big oil. Crumbs and lip service for alt. energy and an alledged hydrogen 
economy based on natural gas cracking and nuclear production of hydrogen that 
will still be controlled by big corps. The other energy bill package passed 
last week, doles out even more goodies to the dino dealers. 
He is basically giving the green light to oil and coal concerns to  drill where 
they want and pollute as much as they need to get more dirty 
energy...environmental and health concerns be damned.
Mean while cutting programs and funding for food stamp programs for the less 
fortunate, lunch programs for poor school children, health benefits for firemen 
who have become sick from working at ground zero (911), after school programs 
for poor childrenthe list goes on and on and on and on.
Oh, I forgot.. he also intends to cut geothermal, renewable energy and solar 
energy programs
from the DOE to continue to pay for the war and rebuilding New Orleans. 
Meanwhile he is adding further cuts to the army core of engineers for wet land 
reabilitation and flood controls, in addition to the previous cuts that he made 
a couple of years ago even though he was warned that levys and anti flooding 
measures needed to be urgently upgraded. The "preverbial angry white men" 
better get a grip on reality because it's not a pretty picture
for us, our children and future generations.



some further reading...pretty scary

The Heat Death of American Dreams

< http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/25351/ >

regards
tallex


>  ---Original Message---
>  From: Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imagine if we could invent grid tied PV systems
>  Sent: 14 Oct '05 15:31
>  
>  Voter turnout is key.  Unfourtunately, a large pergentage of thoseturning
>  out are the proverbial "angry white male (or person)" who wishto preserve
>  the  unsustainable status quo.  That and the fact that theDemocrats have
>  been in disarray for years doesn't help.
>  
>  I did hear an interesting comment form an older acquiantance, whopointed
>  out that he'd heard all the doom and gloom in the 70's, andthen, it didn't
>  happen.  OPEC collapsed and energy prices went down.  Alot of people think
>  this is the same.  A blip.  Even so, that does notaddress the issues of
>  global warming,
>  basic energy inequality, the US, with not even 10% of the globalpoplation
>  consumes at least 25 - 30 % of the oil.  Mostly to sustainlife on a scale
>  unimaginable
>  for the rest of the world.
>  
>  I've spent enough time in the 3rd world to know the race is not for
>  abigger car or house, but for water, food, cooking energy and shelter. In
>  rural Africa it is not unusual to spent an hour or 2 just gettingwater,
>  then scrounging an already deforested land for fuel, thencooking an
>  incredibly time-consuming meal.  Making Fonio inGuinee/Senegal takes
>  forever.
>  
>  Moreover, here outside of DC where I live, you are a nut if youpractice
>  energy-concious living.  Everone in my cul de sac, with theexception of a
>  Puerto Rican family, howl at the use of a wood stove,complain about even
>  storing firewood, and have actually complainedabout my "SUV" an old
>  Trooper, which I use in my business.  I keep itbecause it is about the
>  only 4 cylinder 5sp truck of any size you canget.  Now they are all V6-V8
>  automatics.  It's slow, but it gets goodmileage, and can haul a lot.  But
>  it is old.  I only wish I could finda Diesel model, but they are rare as
>  hen's teeth.  I also only drive itto collect WVO, work supplies and to get
>  firewood (hence the 4 wheeldrive.  Otherwise I drive a VW Golf, mostly on
>  homebrew.  I'm a kook. I can't wait to see what happens when I set up some
>  solar heating and aPV panels!  The Civic League will attack!
>  
>  Viva la revolution!
>

Re: [Biofuel] White LYE

2005-10-14 Thread Marc DeGagne

Hi folks

Whilst on the subject of lye..I recently purchased a 3kg 
container(hardware store), and my concern is the hard clump that I found 
upon opening the container for the first time.  I've used this lye 
successfully in several 1 litre test batches, but I'm not so sure about 
a 100litre batch. 

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Marc

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Re: [Biofuel] Grey water heat recovery and low tech Solar collectors????





>From my (fairly limited) time in France the big difference I noticed
was the French use far less water.  In one hotel there was a small tub
and bathing 
spray, in another a small shower with an instant heater.  I probably
used 1/4 the water that I would here, where most people keep a 60
gallon tank at 125 F degree
hot all day and all night.  Efficiency was the norm most of the places
I went in Europe.  When European friends come to stay they do marvel at
the hot water - I had (a number of years ago) a young lady friend who
spent a good 30 minutes in the shower every morning with the water on
HOT.   She always emerged pink and dreamy.  I always suspected her
attraction was not so much for me, but for my water boiler.  

Of course now I am plotting how to rid myself of the boiler and go
solar.  



Frantz DESPREZ wrote:

  Hakan Falk a écrit :

  
  
Tom,

Do not worry, it must be other developed countries than US, this
because US is using more gasoline than water. Cannot be the
French either, since I saw some statistics that they only shower
once every two weeks and that was the immigrants, according
to a French guy I know. It is no sure numbers on how often the
real French shower. They have however the best perfumes on
the market.

I feel a bit guilty here, because it is the Swedes who are using
more water than gasoline and they shower several times a week.
A very wasteful people, the Swedes, and they have a lot of water
also. They should be ashamed to use so little oil, according to
a well known oil company, who threatened to stop delivering oil.

Hakan


  
  Hakan,

I feel concerned as a french. I must try to find out explanations to 
save the honor of my team ;-)
During the 50's, french were considered as dirty people because of their 
very low consuption of soaps and toothbrushes, and a very low rate of 
modern bathroom equipment. And obviously, it's true that a very short 
part of appartments and houses were equiped with WC or showers. That 
even doesn't mean that people were dirty : my grand parents told me how 
they used to wash with [the famous french] wet gloves and basins twice a 
day. Ask 1/3 world people how heavy is water when you have to carry it 
for km or bring it at the 5th floor. An active policy of public aids for 
years helped France to stick at the european average. Now we can waste 
good water like our developped friends.
During the 90's, new statistics showed that the average french used more 
soap than the average brittish. Proudness.
But I also read that the statistics were based on different parameters. 
A panel of few citizens or samples in a hand , and the total amount of 
soap or water sold divided but population in the other. And in rural 
areas of France, we often have wells. Water is free and not counted. 
Only people who uses "l'eau de la ville" (= city water, the drinkable 
water with good bleach taste...) pay the pollution tax (included in the 
water bill). And water is not only used in the bathroom.
I supposed that depends on national habits. For teeth washing, and know 
only very few people with their natural teeth. They probably didn't care 
as we do when they were young, and when get a plastic smile, they kept 
on to not use much water and toothbrushes... The delicious garlic 
fragrance of old french breathes may be not came of the vegetable ?

About perfumes, the french fame came from king Louis XIV, who had very 
smart water pieces in his gardens of Versailles palace, but any bathroom 
or toilets in buildings. Courtisans were supposed to do their needs in 
pots or on the floor behind curtains. So what we call the "Louis XIV 
method" is to use cosmetics and perfumes to hide the odors from lack of 
bodycare. And I guess that the perfumes had to be efficient :-|)

More seriously, Swedes have a great luck to have big water ressources. 
In some parts of France, southern Europe and elsewhere worldwide, 
droughtness is severe. Spain or Brasil plans to do as California to 
change river ways. Water is one of the main real reasons of the war 
between palestinians and Israelians.
At home, one of my 2 wells is dry since July and our pond is completly 
dry for the first time in 52 years. Newspaper are speaking of less than 
one month of drinkable water stocks in central western France. We can 
survive without oil, not without water.

Frantz
(one shower a day)

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Re: [Biofuel] Grey water heat recovery and low tech Solar collectors????

I agree.  Only on weeks where I do real work - splitting wood or such do 
I take a shower daily.  Mostly every other day is fine.  This is not 
always true in the Summer, though.  I am on the East Coast. 

Zeke Yewdall wrote:

>Hmmm.  Interesting direction this thread is taking...
>
>While we are talking about showers, why exactly is it assumed in the
>US that everyone must take a shower every day.   When in a dry
>climate, not doing much physical work (like going to the office every
>day) I get by with every other day fine.   If you are on the east
>coast of the US, yes, you probably need to take a shower every day
>because the humidity is so dreadful, but out here in Colorado, why? 
>It just makes your skin dry and is probably less healthy.  No one that
>I work or live with has ever complained.
>
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>  
>



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[Biofuel] Weapons of Mass Disinfection





Bonjour M. Desprez:

As someone who can trace his family back to William the Conquerer (ok,
I didn't, but one of my cousins did and I did take the trouble to read
his book)
WE'RE probably related.  

I hadn't though of the Scandinavian Weapons of Mass Disinfection.
However, don't forget that Louis Pasteur, a Frenchman,  was the father of
modern disinfection.  If the duel does not go my way,
I shall call out my siege engine, the mobile pasteurizer.  Of course,
this may lead to an arms war, as M. Falk will not doubt turn to his
neighbors and call in 
the Little Dutch Girl cleanser.

Maybe I better just demand an apology, plus appropriate reparations:  2
bottles of Castille Soap and a jumbo Lysol can.

Plus a Sauna visit.

Hakan?

Frantz DESPREZ wrote:

  Mike Weaver a écrit :

  
  
M. Falk:

As a person with (minor) French ancestry, I am shocked and offended at 
your suggestion that the French do not bathe regularly.
I challenge you to defend yourself in a duel of honor.  Shampoo at 
fifty yards, the first one to achieve a glossy sheen to be declared 
the winner.
I name as my seconds Vidal Sasoon and the Breck girl.  If the first 
duel is not satisfactory, we will rinse and repeat.

Prepare to meet your suds.

M. Weaver


  
  M. Weaver,

I am very grateful of your sollicitude, but be careful, scandinavians 
are famous for their weapons of mass desinfection.
They could invite you into a steam bath until you've been cooked, before 
roll you in snow or dive in icy water.
None a civilized gentleman as you surely are can resist such a barbarian 
treatment.
And since Volvo refused to married Renault, we are in bad t(h)erms.

M. Desprez
( with half of my ancestry from Normandy, so Hakan is maybe a cousin of 
mine)


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[Biofuel] Getting Ready for Winter

2005-10-14 Thread robert luis rabello

I've spent some time in the garden this week, pulling out the dead 
and dying plant material, harvesting potatoes and collecting all my 
organic material into a big pile.  A friend of mine has offered to 
"indefinitely loan" his garden shredder to me, as he doesn't use it 
and the equipment is taking up too much space in his storage shed.

The trees have not yet lost all their leaves, so I haven't pruned 
anything yet.  Once I get the shredder and start on another compost 
pile, I will collect a few more truck loads of barn litter, then 
rototill the garden plot for the winter.  Does anyone have a 
suggestion for a "cover crop"?  I'd like to keep the weeds down, and 
something that fixes nitrogen (especially where we had our corn 
growing) would be a valuable addition, I think.

The friend who has offered me his shredder also gave me two books on 
the "Mittleider Method" of gardening, which will "dramatically 
increase crop yields".  I read through the material.  It's basically 
industrialized agriculture (lots of chemical inputs) using sterilized 
"custom soil" (a mix of blowsand and peat moss, or sawdust and fine 
sand) as a "growing medium", with a weekly "feeding" regimen mixed 
from various nitrates, sulfates and trace minerals.

No, thank you!  I have a LOT of compost right now.  My system puts 
out about 20 liters of compost per week, and the pile is still warm, 
even though the weather has been very cool and cloudy.

I've found that my garden is a lot of work, but at my age that 
doesn't really hurt me.  My eldest son is not in school right now 
because the BC Teacher's Federation has gone on strike to protest 
their allegedly terrible working conditions and low pay . . .  We have 
enjoyed the hours of labor we've been able to put in as father and 
son, working the soil.


robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/


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Re: [Biofuel] Grey water heat recovery and low tech Solar collectors????

2005-10-14 Thread Frantz DESPREZ

Mike Weaver a écrit :

> M. Falk:
>
> As a person with (minor) French ancestry, I am shocked and offended at 
> your suggestion that the French do not bathe regularly.
> I challenge you to defend yourself in a duel of honor.  Shampoo at 
> fifty yards, the first one to achieve a glossy sheen to be declared 
> the winner.
> I name as my seconds Vidal Sasoon and the Breck girl.  If the first 
> duel is not satisfactory, we will rinse and repeat.
>
> Prepare to meet your suds.
>
> M. Weaver
>
M. Weaver,

I am very grateful of your sollicitude, but be careful, scandinavians 
are famous for their weapons of mass desinfection.
They could invite you into a steam bath until you've been cooked, before 
roll you in snow or dive in icy water.
None a civilized gentleman as you surely are can resist such a barbarian 
treatment.
And since Volvo refused to married Renault, we are in bad t(h)erms.

M. Desprez
( with half of my ancestry from Normandy, so Hakan is maybe a cousin of 
mine)


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Re: [Biofuel] Grey water heat recovery and low tech Solar collectors????

2005-10-14 Thread Zeke Yewdall

Hmmm.  Interesting direction this thread is taking...

While we are talking about showers, why exactly is it assumed in the
US that everyone must take a shower every day.   When in a dry
climate, not doing much physical work (like going to the office every
day) I get by with every other day fine.   If you are on the east
coast of the US, yes, you probably need to take a shower every day
because the humidity is so dreadful, but out here in Colorado, why? 
It just makes your skin dry and is probably less healthy.  No one that
I work or live with has ever complained.

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Re: [Biofuel] Grey water heat recovery and low tech Solar collectors????

2005-10-14 Thread Frantz DESPREZ

Hakan Falk a écrit :

>Tom,
>
>Do not worry, it must be other developed countries than US, this
>because US is using more gasoline than water. Cannot be the
>French either, since I saw some statistics that they only shower
>once every two weeks and that was the immigrants, according
>to a French guy I know. It is no sure numbers on how often the
>real French shower. They have however the best perfumes on
>the market.
>
>I feel a bit guilty here, because it is the Swedes who are using
>more water than gasoline and they shower several times a week.
>A very wasteful people, the Swedes, and they have a lot of water
>also. They should be ashamed to use so little oil, according to
>a well known oil company, who threatened to stop delivering oil.
>
>Hakan
>
Hakan,

I feel concerned as a french. I must try to find out explanations to 
save the honor of my team ;-)
During the 50's, french were considered as dirty people because of their 
very low consuption of soaps and toothbrushes, and a very low rate of 
modern bathroom equipment. And obviously, it's true that a very short 
part of appartments and houses were equiped with WC or showers. That 
even doesn't mean that people were dirty : my grand parents told me how 
they used to wash with [the famous french] wet gloves and basins twice a 
day. Ask 1/3 world people how heavy is water when you have to carry it 
for km or bring it at the 5th floor. An active policy of public aids for 
years helped France to stick at the european average. Now we can waste 
good water like our developped friends.
During the 90's, new statistics showed that the average french used more 
soap than the average brittish. Proudness.
But I also read that the statistics were based on different parameters. 
A panel of few citizens or samples in a hand , and the total amount of 
soap or water sold divided but population in the other. And in rural 
areas of France, we often have wells. Water is free and not counted. 
Only people who uses "l'eau de la ville" (= city water, the drinkable 
water with good bleach taste...) pay the pollution tax (included in the 
water bill). And water is not only used in the bathroom.
I supposed that depends on national habits. For teeth washing, and know 
only very few people with their natural teeth. They probably didn't care 
as we do when they were young, and when get a plastic smile, they kept 
on to not use much water and toothbrushes... The delicious garlic 
fragrance of old french breathes may be not came of the vegetable ?

About perfumes, the french fame came from king Louis XIV, who had very 
smart water pieces in his gardens of Versailles palace, but any bathroom 
or toilets in buildings. Courtisans were supposed to do their needs in 
pots or on the floor behind curtains. So what we call the "Louis XIV 
method" is to use cosmetics and perfumes to hide the odors from lack of 
bodycare. And I guess that the perfumes had to be efficient :-|)

More seriously, Swedes have a great luck to have big water ressources. 
In some parts of France, southern Europe and elsewhere worldwide, 
droughtness is severe. Spain or Brasil plans to do as California to 
change river ways. Water is one of the main real reasons of the war 
between palestinians and Israelians.
At home, one of my 2 wells is dry since July and our pond is completly 
dry for the first time in 52 years. Newspaper are speaking of less than 
one month of drinkable water stocks in central western France. We can 
survive without oil, not without water.

Frantz
(one shower a day)

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Re: [Biofuel] Burger King WVO

I think oil like that is more trouble than it's worth, though I have 
cracked it.  I mixed it with better stuff then cracked it.  Be sure you 
get all the water out!

Derick Giorchino wrote:

>I have used Berger kings wvo and it has always been clean and smells good
>but it seems to solidify at much warmer temps and the titration is higher
>than the other source of oil I get.
>The 2 nd oil has so much crap in it solids full blown dinners and such it
>takes a long time to filter and it stinks sooo bad but it has yet to
>solidify in the 40 deg f range. Now I need to figure if I want to shovel
>solid wvo or deal with all the trash.
>Good luck
>Derick
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 4:54 PM
>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: [Biofuel] Burger King WVO
>
>I have access to all the Burger King WVO that I want. But they use the crap
>out of it, only changing their oil once a week. I made a test batch and the
>only difference between the Burger King test batch and others is the dark
>color. So is it safe to use the Burger King BD?
>
>
>
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>
>
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>  
>



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Re: [Biofuel] Why aren't there more manufacturers?

2005-10-14 Thread logan vilas

Hey Jason

It is actually a 2' square box that has a 6" tube with baffles in it. 
The exhaust goes into the bottom left, then hits a flat wall where the 
exhaust is directed up through some small plates tacked to either side to 
help catch heat and slow down the air speed. The pipe runs right through the 
middle of the tank There's about 1 8" hole so the water doesn't build 
pressure. In the diving industry they build hot water heaters on almost the 
same basis except they use a becket fuel oil burner for the heat source, and 
most of the time they are much bigger. I am not useing a water heater 
because I am setting up a facility and hopeing to sell at least 1500-2000 
gallons of biodiesel a month. More is alway's better. For that I would have 
to do a batch a day for now I am planning on 4-5 batches a day on the 
weekends they are 200 gallons so it should only take 2-3 days work a week to 
keep up with my hopeful min of 1000 gallons. But I am going to enclose my 
Preheat tank in my facility that way it does help heat durning the winter, 
but during the summer in Louisiana that's gonna add extra heat also.

My burner is in a box made out of 1/4" steel plate, that sits 3' square and 
4' tall with a open top for saftey. If it decides to blow apart that should 
hold it in. I thought last night that If I make a inlet, throught the side 
of the box, and seal my intake to the side of the box, my exhaust is already 
run like this, then I can fill that box with water. That should give me 
aditional water heat, and help keep my turbo even cooler while adding a 
little more safety. If it decides to blow apart then it will have the water 
to slow it down and probably not burst into flames. At the most you'll head 
a thud and the turbine stop. I Think that's the safest way to make this.

Logan Vilas
Bio-Fuel Enterprises, Inc.


- Original Message - 
From: "Jason and Katie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Why aren't there more manufacturers?


> Damn Logan, this is a tremendous idea!
> i had known about boneyard turbine engines for a while, but i hadnt ever
> put the idea of glyceine to it yet.
> this is fantastic. i have a recommendation though.
>why dont you use a gas water heater tank instead of a drum? it already
> has the baffles for heating built into it, and it already has the more
> difficult plumbing pre-assembled for you, if you so choose, you could also
> add to the factory insulation and use it for more than just heating your
> bio. heat the garage, or the shower, or if you're feeling ambitious, heat
> the whole bloody house (you'd probably need two turbines for that though.)
> the tinker gives a damn,
> jason
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Why aren't there more manufacturers?

2005-10-14 Thread Michael Luich

nodding in understanding,

I appreciate the explanation, and am looking forward to a bit more, I'd
be doing more tinkering myself but $$ are real tight a thome right now,
I just can't get the initial investment (as amall as it is) going at
the moment but someway to save even more money and energy wouldn't hurt.

Michael Luich
Salem, NH
On 10/14/05, logan vilas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:







Mike,
 
    I'll do my best to write up some 
plans and explain the harder points. The best thing I can tell you is to start 
looking up homemade turbine. Or Turbocharger engine. I am more of a tinker then 
a planer. I bought a turbo from a local junkyard $25 bucks. I was told it 
worked, but the car was totaled. Then from several sources I 
had already found on the internet I started tinkering. After a few months 
of playing around with it, and a lot of time watching tv, I had a running 
engine. Now I could use it to power something, but what am I going to do 
with 5 lbs of thrust that sucks 10lbs of propane in 5 min. Now that I've 
gotten into bio-diesel I was trying to figure out what I can do with my 
byproduct. 
 
If I plan on selling a lot of this I have to find 
someone to take the glycerine or a way to dispose of it. Well I started thinking 
about it and for any number of reasons it would be nice to have a high volume 
burner then I decided to try glycerine. I had already run diesel, kerosine, 
propane, and a near miss with gasoline. Once it is up to heat on propane then 
put in the glycerine and it works great. it will also take twice the glycerine 
to make as much power as any of the other fuels so you can burn off a lot if you 
need to.
 
After thinking about it there's a lot of heat lost, 
and I have been dreading the electric bill of heating my batches, but here's a 
good source of excess heat, just beine blown into the atsmophere. now I reclaim 
that and did the math. I get a huge amount of heating power without any 
electricity at all.
 
Now I think if I add a exhaust turbine in line then 
gear reduce it to turn my genhead I will still reclaim some more of that energy 
and be able to power my processor pumps, and I decided to look at electric bills 
and net metering. Well it technically is a biomass generator, and in louisiana a 
person can produce 25kwh, or commercial can produce 100kwh and send it back out 
the public lines. So now all I have to do is get approved and have a 
electriction wire it into place.
 
Logan Vilas
Bio-Fuel Enterprises, Inc.

  - Original Message - 
  
From: 
  Michael 
  Luich 
  To: 
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 3:33 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Why aren't there 
  more manufacturers?
  Care to share the plans?Mike Luich
  On 10/13/05, logan 
  vilas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote:
  I 
have built a turbine engine/burner for my waste glycerine. I know it 
canbe dumped, but mysetup preheats and can produce electricity at the 
same timeof destroying my waste. The burner is just about the same for 
any useage from a half gallon an hour to 10 gallons a hour. It can burn 
a lot. I haveit set up for 1 gallon a hour right now. It is slightely 
loud(like a reallysmall jet engine), so no running it at night if your 
nebighors are going to complain. I figure 1 gallon of glycerine has 
53,000 btu's. That's enoughenergy to produce about 20 HP. You loose 
about 25% in most cases to heat. SoIf my numbers are correct that's 5hp. 
That will turn a 2.5-3kw GeneratorHead. My average electric consumption 
for the last 6 months is 2.2 Kw perhour. Right now the burner just 
exhausts onto a 50 gallon water vat that Iam going to plumb into my 
processor for heating(just waiting on the money for heat exchanger). I 
figure after the energy produced the left over energyin the heat is 
about 37,500 btu's. Then I should get about 3,750 btu's ofheating per 
hour on my water vat.The only reason I have not set up the genhead 
is because durning the normal day there are spikes above 3kw for some 
time, then at night it slows down. Iam trying to get NET METERING. That 
means any electricity I don't use goesout to the general public and I 
get paid for it, but when my demand is more then my output I draw what 
else I need from the utilitys. By the end of themonth they end up oweing 
you for the excess you produced. and you made itinstead of going to the 
dump with your glycerine. Plus that makes the size of your glycerine 
storage much smaller.To produce enough glycerine to burn 24 gallons 
a day you will need to make a75 gallon batch per day. I size my batch by 
wvo put into the processor. Thatmeans you are preheating 562.5 pounds of 
WVO. that's a 6.67 degree rise perhour. and you should have about 22 
hours of heating time at a min per day. Ifigure no more then one hour to 
pump 75 gallons into the processor then 1hour to refill the preheat

Re: [Biofuel] Imagine if we could invent grid tied PV systems





Sums it up in a nutshell.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Biofuel@sustainablelists.org wrote:
Rexis Tree wrote:


  
  
M, change the white house roof top to solar panel is a 

  
  good idea.

President Carter put solar panels on the White House. Reagan 
removed them when he moved in.

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Re: [Biofuel] Grey water heat recovery and low tech Solar collectors????





M. Falk:

As a person with (minor) French ancestry, I am shocked and offended at
your suggestion that the French do not bathe regularly.
I challenge you to defend yourself in a duel of honor.  Shampoo at
fifty yards, the first one to achieve a glossy sheen to be declared the
winner.
I name as my seconds Vidal Sasoon and the Breck girl.  If the first
duel is not satisfactory, we will rinse and repeat.

Prepare to meet your suds.

M. Weaver



Hakan Falk wrote:




  Tom,

Do not worry, it must be other developed countries than US, this
because US is using more gasoline than water. Cannot be the
French either, since I saw some statistics that they only shower
once every two weeks and that was the immigrants, according
to a French guy I know. It is no sure numbers on how often the
real French shower. They have however the best perfumes on
the market.

I feel a bit guilty here, because it is the Swedes who are using
more water than gasoline and they shower several times a week.
A very wasteful people, the Swedes, and they have a lot of water
also. They should be ashamed to use so little oil, according to
a well known oil company, who threatened to stop delivering oil.

Hakan


At 17:31 14/10/2005, you wrote:
  
  
Hi Bob,

You mean people heating their water with 
electricity aren't using flow limiting shower 
heads. Why I'm shocked to hear this. You must be 
talking about people who live in the third world 
not the first. Whew, I was really worried there 
for a minute. But wait I'm confused, most people 
living in developing countries don't have 
accress to electricity to heat their hot water. What's going on here.

Tom Irwin



--
From: bob allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:53:14 -0300
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Grey water heat recovery 
and low tech Solar collectors

Although my observations will offset in terms of net effects, a fifteen
minute shower is a really really long shower in my experience. A few
years ago I had students go out and calculate energy use for showers.
average length 3 to 4 minutes, temperature around 40 C, and flow rate
varied from 2 to 6 gallons per minute, average on the high end about 5
gal/min. this from a combination of dorms, apartments, and single
family homes.





Tom Irwin wrote:


  Hi Mike,

Lets do a quick calc. Let's say flow is a gallon a minute for 15
minutes. Let's say you like really hot showers at about 45C. Let's say
room temp is 20C giving us a differential of 25C. Mass x Temperature
change x specific heat.
hm less than 6000 kilojoules. Yep, ridiculous, meaning I wouldn't
waste may time or capital. Of course, I didn't really consider leaving
the water in the bathtub. That will heat ya twice, once from the waste
heat and again when you scrub the tub.

Tom Irwin



*From:* Michael Redler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
*To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
*Sent:* Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:31:05 -0300
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Grey water heat recovery and low tech Solar
collectors

With all due respect Tom, when I see someone use the word
"ridiculous" in threads like this, I usually think of the people who
actually believe that the buck stops with them, every possible
scenario has been explored and all possible conclusions made as to
the potential of an idea (even if you put "seems" in front of it).
It is presumptuous and discounts contributions made by people like
John who present and argument and back it up with something other
than conjecture.

Although, I'm not convinced that the concept can work effectively, I
think of the variables involved, like the energy necessary to heat
the water from ambient, the amount of water being heated and the
difference in temperature.

"...bacteria that will definitely grow and clog heat exchange tubing."

Fouling is a foregone conclusion in most heat exchanger applications
and If clogging from bacteria were that severe, I suspect that most
people would be taking baths, whether they want to or not.

"...problems in trying to recover shower water at 40 or 45 C"

Air conditioners are expected to function in similar situations. One
thing about using heat pumps for generating heat is that
inefficiency in the cycle is not necessarily a bad thing. After all,
you are trying to generate heat. This is not a new idea. Below is an
article from www.motherearthnews.com
which talks about applying it to
solar and geothermal systems. In addition, I know that it is used to
recover heat from attics for domestic hot water. I think that heat
recovery from waste water might also be an appropriate application.

"Though solar energy is likely to be one of the most popular heat
sources for the new absorption-cycle heat pump, the design is
equally well suited to cogeneration systems using waste heat or
geothermal heat sources."

*http://tinyurl.com/dxk4p

*Mike


*/Tom Irwin > >/* wrote:

Hi John,

Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Re: fyi

2005-10-14 Thread Greg and April

Todd,

I don't think we are thinking about the same type of efficiency here.

I'm was thinking more in terms of production efficiency rather than the
energy efficiency you appear to be talking about.

Looking back at the original, it looks like I missed parts of it.My bad.

When Efficient and Factories are put together, I think in terms of labor,
and production.I don't know why, I just do.To me, efficient
factories conjures images of fewer people and more machines or higher
quotas.Perhaps it was because I used to work in a small manufacturing
facility, as a sheet metal grind tech, and our performance was based on
quantity and not quality.

Greg H.



- Original Message - 
From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 17:40
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Re: fyi


> Greg,
>
> Nothing personal here. But this is precisely the type of knee jerk,
> superficial thought that every special interest preys upon to put more
> sentiment and votes in their camp.
>
> For instance: 2.1 jobs created in the energy efficiency/conservation
> business in comparison to one new job for an equivalent amount of BTUs
> in new energy production. (Energy Unbound, Amory Lovins, circa "eons
ago.")
>
> A job lost could mean 2.1 jobs gained. And we're not speaking of
> mindless assembly work in a compact fluorescent bulb facility, or at
> least not necessarily or entirely. There are millions of jobs that would
> be available if the nation made the radical switch to an energy
> responsible economy. In any event, it's probably a fairly safe bet that
> a large percentage of the unemployed population would be elated to have
> a job that could be considered skilled labor, not "burger flipper."
>
> The solutions aren't excessively simple. Nor are they excessively
> complex. All that is required is cohesive effort, cradle to grave,
> hectare to digester to wind tower to cogen to Detroit to
> Schwartzenhogger to Shrub.
>
> And if they can't get a grip on the wagon to climb on board or at least
> lend a shoulder to push?
>
> Well..., you know the answer to that one. Just so long as it's their
> legs that are wet and not mine or yours.
>
> Todd Swearingen
>
> > Unions.
> >
> > More efficient factories, mean fewer workers.Someone is going to
> > lose their job.
> >
> > Greg H.
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > *From:* Gustl Steiner-Zehender 
> > *To:* Biofuel 
> > *Sent:* Thursday, October 13, 2005 11:38
> > *Subject:* [Biofuel] Fwd: Re: fyi
> >
> > Hallo All,
> >
> > I  received this exchange which has been taking place among some of
my
> > friends.   Any comments?  They will be forwarded by me to these
folks.
> >
> > Happy Happy,
> >
> > Gustl
> >
> > SNIP
> >
> > Item 2.  More efficient factories:  There isn't a manufacturer
> > anywhere that wouldn't do that.  Exactly why aren't they?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >___
> >Biofuel mailing list
> >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
> >
> >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
> >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
> >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ___
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> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
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>
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>


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Re: [Biofuel] White LYE

2005-10-14 Thread Bobby Clark

I work with chemicals in the lab and the NaOH (lye) that we use is in larger 
pellets. Those pellets are not quite white (they are somewhat 
clear/transluscent), however, lye from the soap companies is usually in 
smaller pellets/flakes and should defintiely appear white. I got my last 
batch from the soap company and according to the MSDS is is 99% pure and it 
appears white.
I hope this helps,
Bobby Clark


>From: "michael skinner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] White LYE
>Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 02:34:54 +
>
>I'm a chemist and have used pure NaOH and it is white.
>
>Original Message Follows
>From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>To: 
>Subject: [Biofuel]  White LYE
>Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:23:01 -0500
>
>I read somewhere that pure lye is not white but sort of opaque and the 
>white
>lye is not pure and you need to use more. About 25% more. Does anyone have
>any information on this?
> I buy lye from a soap making shop and there is no marking on the
>container.
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Grey water heat recovery and low tech Solar collectors????


Tom,

Do not worry, it must be other developed countries than US, this
because US is using more gasoline than water. Cannot be the
French either, since I saw some statistics that they only shower
once every two weeks and that was the immigrants, according
to a French guy I know. It is no sure numbers on how often the
real French shower. They have however the best perfumes on
the market.

I feel a bit guilty here, because it is the Swedes who are using
more water than gasoline and they shower several times a week.
A very wasteful people, the Swedes, and they have a lot of water
also. They should be ashamed to use so little oil, according to
a well known oil company, who threatened to stop delivering oil.

Hakan


At 17:31 14/10/2005, you wrote:
>Hi Bob,
>
>You mean people heating their water with 
>electricity aren't using flow limiting shower 
>heads. Why I'm shocked to hear this. You must be 
>talking about people who live in the third world 
>not the first. Whew, I was really worried there 
>for a minute. But wait I'm confused, most people 
>living in developing countries don't have 
>accress to electricity to heat their hot water. What's going on here.
>
>Tom Irwin
>
>
>
>--
>From: bob allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Sent: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:53:14 -0300
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Grey water heat recovery 
>and low tech Solar collectors
>
>Although my observations will offset in terms of net effects, a fifteen
>minute shower is a really really long shower in my experience. A few
>years ago I had students go out and calculate energy use for showers.
>average length 3 to 4 minutes, temperature around 40 C, and flow rate
>varied from 2 to 6 gallons per minute, average on the high end about 5
>gal/min. this from a combination of dorms, apartments, and single
>family homes.
>
>
>
>
>
>Tom Irwin wrote:
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > Lets do a quick calc. Let's say flow is a gallon a minute for 15
> > minutes. Let's say you like really hot showers at about 45C. Let's say
> > room temp is 20C giving us a differential of 25C. Mass x Temperature
> > change x specific heat.
> > hm less than 6000 kilojoules. Yep, ridiculous, meaning I wouldn't
> > waste may time or capital. Of course, I didn't really consider leaving
> > the water in the bathtub. That will heat ya twice, once from the waste
> > heat and again when you scrub the tub.
> >
> > Tom Irwin
> >
> >
> > 
> > *From:* Michael Redler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > *Sent:* Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:31:05 -0300
> > *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Grey water heat recovery and low tech Solar
> > collectors
> >
> > With all due respect Tom, when I see someone use the word
> > "ridiculous" in threads like this, I usually think of the people who
> > actually believe that the buck stops with them, every possible
> > scenario has been explored and all possible conclusions made as to
> > the potential of an idea (even if you put "seems" in front of it).
> > It is presumptuous and discounts contributions made by people like
> > John who present and argument and back it up with something other
> > than conjecture.
> >
> > Although, I'm not convinced that the concept can work effectively, I
> > think of the variables involved, like the energy necessary to heat
> > the water from ambient, the amount of water being heated and the
> > difference in temperature.
> >
> > "...bacteria that will definitely grow and clog heat exchange tubing."
> >
> > Fouling is a foregone conclusion in most heat exchanger applications
> > and If clogging from bacteria were that severe, I suspect that most
> > people would be taking baths, whether they want to or not.
> >
> > "...problems in trying to recover shower water at 40 or 45 C"
> >
> > Air conditioners are expected to function in similar situations. One
> > thing about using heat pumps for generating heat is that
> > inefficiency in the cycle is not necessarily a bad thing. After all,
> > you are trying to generate heat. This is not a new idea. Below is an
> > article from www.motherearthnews.com
> > which talks about applying it to
> > solar and geothermal systems. In addition, I know that it is used to
> > recover heat from attics for domestic hot water. I think that heat
> > recovery from waste water might also be an appropriate application.
> >
> > "Though solar energy is likely to be one of the most popular heat
> > sources for the new absorption-cycle heat pump, the design is
> > equally well suited to cogeneration systems using waste heat or
> > geothermal heat sources."
> >
> > *http://tinyurl.com/dxk4p
> >
> > *Mike
> >
> >
> > */Tom Irwin > >/* wrote:
> >
> > Hi John,
> >
> >
> > Just because graywater has some heat in it does not make it
> > economically recoverable. Graywater is a wonderful breeding
> > ground for fungi and bacteria that will definitely g

Re: [Biofuel] Keith I think you have a virus.....Do not open body.zip

>Hello Joe and all.
>My antivirus AVG from Grisoft detected the same virus inside an attached
>file with the name body.zip and it sended that message to a virus vault
>were I already deleted. I noticed it took the biofuel list addresses.
>I do not think the address is the real because virus tend to use somebody
>else's address to hide its real server.

Hello Juan

It didn't come via the Biofuel list server either. They leave a false trail.

Best wishes

Keith



>Regards.
>Juan
>Paraguay
>-Mensaje original-
>De:Joe Street [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Enviado el:Viernes 14 de Octubre de 2005 8:50 AM
>Para:  Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Asunto:[Biofuel] Keith I think you have a virus.
>
>
>Hi Keith;
>
>I got the following warning form symantec about a message I recieved
>from you.  Was this message in response to the email I sent last week
>regarding the new biodiesel process?
>
>Joe
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >Symantec AntiVirus found a virus in an attachment from
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >Attachment:  body.zip
> >Threat: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Action taken:  Quarantine succeeded
> >File status:  Infected
> >
> >
> >The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a binary
>attachment.


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Re: [Biofuel] Keith I think you have a virus.....

>A bit of research on this particular virus indicates that it will spoof
>the sender's address, and the virus is more likely on a system that has
>Keith's address in its address book.
>
>doug swanson

Hi Doug and Joe

That's definitely the case Doug, it didn't come from me. This is a 
Mac anyway, stony ground for virusess.

>Joe Street wrote:
> > Hi Keith;
> >
> > I got the following warning form symantec about a message I recieved
> > from you.

Not from me.

>Was this message in response to the email I sent last week
> > regarding the new biodiesel process?

No it wasn't Joe, my apologies, I'm far behind with email responses, 
and it'll take me awhile to catch up. Not my choice, too damn' busy 
right now! As soon as.

Best

Keith


> > Joe
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >>Symantec AntiVirus found a virus in an attachment from 
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >>
> >>Attachment:  body.zip
> >>Threat: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>Action taken:  Quarantine succeeded
> >>File status:  Infected
> >>
> >>
> >>The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a 
>binary attachment.


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Re: [Biofuel] White LYE





Ouch.  But thanks for the laugh!

Keith Addison wrote:

  Hello [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  
  
I read somewhere that pure lye is not white but sort of opaque and the white
lye is not pure and you need to use more. About 25% more. Does anyone have
any information on this?
  I buy lye from a soap making shop and there is no marking on the
container.

  
  
Well, you know how it is, you get little white lyes and big black ones. Sorry.

Probably this is what you read:

"Lye has a really limited shelf life: CO2 from the air neutralizes it 
and forms sodium carbonate. Carbonated lye is much whiter than pure 
lye, which is almost translucent. The carbonate in the lye won't harm 
the reaction, but you'll have to use more lye... [Reprocessing step.] 
If you plan to continue using the carbonated lye, make sure to 
increase the amount by 25% next time you make biodiesel. Store lye at 
room temperature, in dry conditions if possible, with the container 
lid really tightly closed."
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html
Foolproof biodiesel proces

It's white but the texture changes. When it's fresh it's a bit 
pearly, it goes more like chalk when it carbonises, both sodium and 
potassium hydroxide. Pearly-white vs chalky-white. If you let it pick 
up moisture from the atmosphere it goes even more pearly, with a 
moist film on the surface, then it sticks together in clumps.

Anyway it shouldn't be any bother as long as you use the same lye for 
the 0.01% NaOH/KOH solution to titrate the oil you're going to 
process as you use to process the oil.

Best wishes

Keith



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Re: [Biofuel] Imagine if we could invent grid tied PV systems





Voter turnout is key.  Unfourtunately, a large pergentage of those
turning out are the proverbial "angry white male (or person)" who wish
to preserve the  unsustainable status quo.  That and the fact that the
Democrats have been in disarray for years doesn't help. 

I did hear an interesting comment form an older acquiantance, who
pointed out that he'd heard all the doom and gloom in the 70's, and
then, it didn't happen.  OPEC collapsed and energy prices went down.  A
lot of people think this is the same.  A blip.  Even so, that does not
address the issues of global warming,
basic energy inequality, the US, with not even 10% of the global
poplation consumes at least 25 - 30 % of the oil.  Mostly to sustain
life on a scale unimaginable 
for the rest of the world.

I've spent enough time in the 3rd world to know the race is not for a
bigger car or house, but for water, food, cooking energy and shelter. 
In rural Africa it is not unusual to spent an hour or 2 just getting
water, then scrounging an already deforested land for fuel, then
cooking an incredibly time-consuming meal.  Making Fonio in
Guinee/Senegal takes forever.  

Moreover, here outside of DC where I live, you are a nut if you
practice energy-concious living.  Everone in my cul de sac, with the
exception of a Puerto Rican family, howl at the use of a wood stove,
complain about even storing firewood, and have actually complained
about my "SUV" an old Trooper, which I use in my business.  I keep it
because it is about the only 4 cylinder 5sp truck of any size you can
get.  Now they are all V6-V8 automatics.  It's slow, but it gets good
mileage, and can haul a lot.  But it is old.  I only wish I could find
a Diesel model, but they are rare as hen's teeth.  I also only drive it
to collect WVO, work supplies and to get firewood (hence the 4 wheel
drive.  Otherwise I drive a VW Golf, mostly on homebrew.  I'm a kook. 
I can't wait to see what happens when I set up some solar heating and a
PV panels!  The Civic League will attack!

Viva la revolution!

Comrade Miguel.

Hakan Falk wrote:

  Ken,

That is great, I was afraid that more than half were idiots,
but the good news is that it was only one quarter. No wonder
that Bush want to export this "democracy". So democracy,
which is Greek for "rule by the people", is now "rule by a
quarter of the people". "The American way of life" is in
reality "minority rule" by white white collar people and
maybe a few black white collar ones also. LOL

Hakan

At 15:09 14/10/2005, you wrote:
  
  
On 10/13/05, Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


  It is not his fault, he is a mirror of the people who voted
for him. The law of smallest (read dumbest) common
denominator. This make George a genius among the
people who voted for him, more than half of the US
population. LOL
  

Not to pick nits over this, Hakan but, just over half of the eligible
U.S. population *voted*.  Of them 51 or 52% voted for Bush.  Far short
of the "mandate" that the Bushites touted but, who's counting?

  
  


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[Biofuel] African Food for Africa's Starving Is Roadblocked in Congress

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/12/international/africa/12memo.html?emc=eta1
- New York Times

A political bargain with American agriculture has formed the basis 
for food aid over the past half century.

Poverty Memo

African Food for Africa's Starving Is Roadblocked in Congress

Eldson Chagara/Reuters

A Malawian woman tending dry fields. Aid agencies are scrambling once 
again to avert starvation in Africa.

By CELIA W. DUGGER

Published: October 12, 2005

It seemed like a no-brainer: changing the law to allow the federal 
government to buy food in Africa for Africans facing starvation 
instead of paying enormous sums to ship it from the American 
heartland, halfway around the world. Not only would the food get to 
the hungry in weeks instead of months, the government would save 
money and help African farmers at the same time.

The new approach had an impeccable sponsor in Republican-dominated 
Washington. The Bush administration, famous for its go-it-alone 
style, was trying to move the United States - by far the world's 
biggest food donor - into the international mainstream with a 
proposal to take a step in just this direction. A lot of rich 
countries had already done so, most recently Canada.

So why is this seemingly sensible, cost-effective proposal near death 
in Congress?

Fundamentally, because the proposal challenges the political bargain 
that has formed the basis for food aid over the past half century: 
that American generosity must be good not just for the world's hungry 
but also for American agriculture. That is why current law stipulates 
that all food aid provided by the United States Agency for 
International Development be grown by American farmers and mostly 
shipped on United States-flag vessels. More practically, however, it 
is because the administration's proposal has run into opposition from 
three interests some critics call the Iron Triangle of food aid: 
agribusiness, the shipping industry and charitable organizations.

Just four companies and their subsidiaries, led by Archer Daniels 
Midland and Cargill, sold more than half the $700 million in food 
commodities provided through the United States Agency for 
International Development's food aid program in 2004, government 
records show. Just five shipping companies received over half the 
more than $300 million spent to ship that food, records show.

Members of Congress often applaud the benefits of food aid for 
American farmers, but that is not really how it works, as Christopher 
B. Barrett, a Cornell University economist and co-author of "Food Aid 
After Fifty Years: Recasting its Role," noted. "It's the middlemen 
who enjoy most of the gains," he said, "not the farmers."

Mr. Barrett's research has established a third side to the triangle 
of interests with a deep stake in the status quo: nonprofit aid 
organizations. He and his co-author, Daniel Maxwell, a CARE official, 
found that at least seven of them, including Catholic Relief Services 
and CARE itself, depended on food aid for a quarter to half their 
budgets in 2001. Those groups distribute food in poor countries. But 
what is less well known is that they have also become grain traders, 
selling substantial amounts of the donated food on local markets in 
poor countries to generate tens of millions of dollars for their 
antipoverty programs. Given that at least 50 cents of each dollar's 
worth of food aid is spent on transport, storage and administrative 
costs, selling food to raise money in, say, Africa, is an exceedingly 
inefficient way to finance long-term development, Mr. Barrett said. 
Better to just give nonprofit groups the money directly.

Had the Agency for International Development had the authority to buy 
food in Ethiopia in the mid-1980's, when a million perished, or in 
1999-2000 when 20,000 died, it could have saved many more lives, said 
its administrator, Andrew S. Natsios, who added, "Speed is everything 
in a famine response."

He pushed within the administration for a proposal that would allow 
up to a quarter of his agency's food aid budget to be spent in 
developing countries. President Bush approved the idea, he said, and 
it was included in the proposed 2006 budget introduced in February.

Ed Fox, the agency's assistant administrator for legislative and 
public affairs, said the issue was deliberately given a low profile. 
Little was to be gained from putting members of Congress in the 
position of choosing between agricultural constituencies and starving 
children, he said.

But if the proposal was little noticed by the general public, it did 
not escape the attention of groups representing the so-called Iron 
Triangle, who argued that cash used to buy food was more likely to be 
misused or stolen than were in-kind food donations. They maintained 
that the administration's proposal should not come at the expense of 
a program "upon which American producers, processors and shipping 
companies rely," as a statement from an ad hoc coal

[Biofuel] Fwd: Marketing of Bayer CropScience Ag Biotech Oilseed Rape Variety Ms8 x Rf3 in the European Union

Fwd from the Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group.

"... In conclusion, the GMO Panel considers that the information 
available for oilseed rape Ms8, Rf3 and Ms8 x Rf3 addresses the 
outstanding questions raised by the Member States and therefore the 
placing on the market of Ms8, Rf3 and Ms8 x Rf3 oilseed rape for 
import and processing for feed and industrial purposes is unlikely to 
have an adverse effect on human or animal health or, in the context 
of its proposed uses, on the environment. This is in addition to the 
present uses of oil for food purposes and processed meal for feed 
purposes, both derived from Ms8 x Rf3 oilseed rape, which are already 
lawfully placed on the market.

"The Panel advises that appropriate management systems are in place 
to minimize accidental loss and spillage of transgenic oilseed rape 
during transportation, storage, handling in the environment and 
processing into derived products."

Ho-hum.

---

>Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:49:26 -0400
>From: "FIEN - Jack Cooper - Food Industry Environmental Network - 
>Phone: 301 384 8287" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Marketing of Bayer CropScience Ag Biotech Oilseed Rape 
>Variety Ms8 x Rf3 in the European Union
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>BIOTECHNOLOGY, INTERNATIONAL TRADE AND RISK ASSESSMENT
>*   Marketing of Bayer CropScience Ag Biotech Oilseed Rape Variety 
>Ms8 x Rf3 in the European Union - On October 12, the Scientific 
>Panel on Genetically Modified Organisms (GMO Panel) of the European 
>Food Safety Authority (EFSA) released an opinion that was adopted on 
>September 12, titled "Opinion of the GMO Panel related to the 
>application ... for the placing on the market of 
>glufosinate-tolerant hybrid oilseed rape Ms8 x Rf3, derived from 
>genetically modified parental lines (Ms8, Rf3), for import and 
>processing for feed and industrial uses, under Part C of Directive 
>2001/18/EC from Bayer CropScience" - The conclusion of the opinion 
>is that " ... the GMO Panel considers that the information available 
>for oilseed rape Ms8, Rf3 and Ms8 x Rf3 addresses the outstanding 
>questions raised by the Member States and therefore the placing on 
>the market of Ms8, Rf3 and Ms8 x Rf3 oilseed rape for import and 
>processing for feed and industrial purposes is unlikely to have an 
>adverse effect on human or animal health or, in the context of its 
>proposed uses, on the environment. This is in addition to the 
>present uses of oil for food purposes and processed meal for feed 
>purposes, both derived from Ms8 x Rf3 oilseed rape, which are 
>already lawfully placed on the market. The Panel advises that 
>appropriate management systems are in place to minimize accidental 
>loss and spillage of transgenic oilseed rape during transportation, 
>storage, handling in the environment and processing into derived 
>products ..." - The complete text of the opinion is posted at 
> 
>http://www.efsa.eu.int/science/gmo/gmo_opinions/1178_en.html
>
>http://www.efsa.eu.int/science/gmo/gmo_opinions/1178_en.html
>
>Opinion of the GMO Panel related to the application (Reference 
>C/BE/96/01) for the placing on the market of glufosinate-tolerant 
>hybrid oilseed rape Ms8 x Rf3, derived from genetically modified 
>parental lines (Ms8, Rf3), for import and processing for feed and 
>industrial uses, under Part C of Directive 2001/18/EC from Bayer 
>CropScience
>
>Last updated: 12 October 2005  
>
>Opinion adopted on 14 September 2005 (Question No EFSA-Q-2005-003)
>
>Summary
>
>This document provides an opinion of the Scientific Panel on 
>Genetically Modified Organisms (GMO Panel) of the European Food 
>Safety Authority (EFSA) on oilseed rape Ms8, Rf3 and Ms8 x Rf3, 
>genetically modified to introduce a pollination control system 
>(hybrid system), linked with a tolerance to glufosinate-ammonium.
>
>The opinion is based on a question raised by the Commission relating 
>to an application (Ref. C/BE/96/01) from Bayer CropScience under 
>Directive 2001/18/EC to place on the market oilseed rape Ms8, Rf3 
>and Ms8 x Rf3. The GMO Panel was asked to consider whether there is 
>any scientific reason to believe that placing oilseed rape Ms8, Rf3 
>and Ms8 x Rf3 on the market for import, processing and uses as any 
>other oilseed rape (excluding food uses), is likely to cause any 
>adverse effects on human health and the environment. The question 
>followed a scientific assessment which was made initially by the 
>Competent Authority of Belgium and evaluated subsequently by all 
>other Member States. An assessment of oilseed rape Ms8, Rf3 and Ms8 
>x Rf3 was requested by the Commission because of questions raised by 
>several Member States following the evaluations at national level. 
>When this is the case, EU legislation requires that EFSA carries out 
>a further assessment and provides an opinion. In delivering its 
>opinion the GMO Panel considered the application, additional 
>

Re: [Biofuel] Why aren't there more manufacturers?

2005-10-14 Thread logan vilas




Mike,
 
    I'll do my best to write up some 
plans and explain the harder points. The best thing I can tell you is to start 
looking up homemade turbine. Or Turbocharger engine. I am more of a tinker then 
a planer. I bought a turbo from a local junkyard $25 bucks. I was told it 
worked, but the car was totaled. Then from several sources I 
had already found on the internet I started tinkering. After a few months 
of playing around with it, and a lot of time watching tv, I had a running 
engine. Now I could use it to power something, but what am I going to do 
with 5 lbs of thrust that sucks 10lbs of propane in 5 min. Now that I've 
gotten into bio-diesel I was trying to figure out what I can do with my 
byproduct. 
 
If I plan on selling a lot of this I have to find 
someone to take the glycerine or a way to dispose of it. Well I started thinking 
about it and for any number of reasons it would be nice to have a high volume 
burner then I decided to try glycerine. I had already run diesel, kerosine, 
propane, and a near miss with gasoline. Once it is up to heat on propane then 
put in the glycerine and it works great. it will also take twice the glycerine 
to make as much power as any of the other fuels so you can burn off a lot if you 
need to.
 
After thinking about it there's a lot of heat lost, 
and I have been dreading the electric bill of heating my batches, but here's a 
good source of excess heat, just beine blown into the atsmophere. now I reclaim 
that and did the math. I get a huge amount of heating power without any 
electricity at all.
 
Now I think if I add a exhaust turbine in line then 
gear reduce it to turn my genhead I will still reclaim some more of that energy 
and be able to power my processor pumps, and I decided to look at electric bills 
and net metering. Well it technically is a biomass generator, and in louisiana a 
person can produce 25kwh, or commercial can produce 100kwh and send it back out 
the public lines. So now all I have to do is get approved and have a 
electriction wire it into place.
 
Logan Vilas
Bio-Fuel Enterprises, Inc.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Michael 
  Luich 
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 3:33 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Why aren't there 
  more manufacturers?
  Care to share the plans?Mike Luich
  On 10/13/05, logan 
  vilas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote:
  I 
have built a turbine engine/burner for my waste glycerine. I know it 
canbe dumped, but mysetup preheats and can produce electricity at the 
same timeof destroying my waste. The burner is just about the same for 
any useage from a half gallon an hour to 10 gallons a hour. It can burn 
a lot. I haveit set up for 1 gallon a hour right now. It is slightely 
loud(like a reallysmall jet engine), so no running it at night if your 
nebighors are going to complain. I figure 1 gallon of glycerine has 
53,000 btu's. That's enoughenergy to produce about 20 HP. You loose 
about 25% in most cases to heat. SoIf my numbers are correct that's 5hp. 
That will turn a 2.5-3kw GeneratorHead. My average electric consumption 
for the last 6 months is 2.2 Kw perhour. Right now the burner just 
exhausts onto a 50 gallon water vat that Iam going to plumb into my 
processor for heating(just waiting on the money for heat exchanger). I 
figure after the energy produced the left over energyin the heat is 
about 37,500 btu's. Then I should get about 3,750 btu's ofheating per 
hour on my water vat.The only reason I have not set up the genhead 
is because durning the normal day there are spikes above 3kw for some 
time, then at night it slows down. Iam trying to get NET METERING. That 
means any electricity I don't use goesout to the general public and I 
get paid for it, but when my demand is more then my output I draw what 
else I need from the utilitys. By the end of themonth they end up oweing 
you for the excess you produced. and you made itinstead of going to the 
dump with your glycerine. Plus that makes the size of your glycerine 
storage much smaller.To produce enough glycerine to burn 24 gallons 
a day you will need to make a75 gallon batch per day. I size my batch by 
wvo put into the processor. Thatmeans you are preheating 562.5 pounds of 
WVO. that's a 6.67 degree rise perhour. and you should have about 22 
hours of heating time at a min per day. Ifigure no more then one hour to 
pump 75 gallons into the processor then 1hour to refill the preheat 
tank. before heat loss that gives you a 146.74degree heat rise from 
ambiant. I figure in a decently insulated containershould have no more 
then 50% heat loss(this could be easily wrong). Thatwould give you a Min 
of 73.37 degree rise above ambiant. It seldom gets below 40F In south 
Louisiana.This could be turned up to 1000 gallons per day and 10 
gallons a hour ofconsum

Re: [Biofuel] Imagine if we could invent grid tied PV systems

Ken,

That is great, I was afraid that more than half were idiots,
but the good news is that it was only one quarter. No wonder
that Bush want to export this "democracy". So democracy,
which is Greek for "rule by the people", is now "rule by a
quarter of the people". "The American way of life" is in
reality "minority rule" by white white collar people and
maybe a few black white collar ones also. LOL

Hakan

At 15:09 14/10/2005, you wrote:
>On 10/13/05, Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > It is not his fault, he is a mirror of the people who voted
> > for him. The law of smallest (read dumbest) common
> > denominator. This make George a genius among the
> > people who voted for him, more than half of the US
> > population. LOL
>
>Not to pick nits over this, Hakan but, just over half of the eligible
>U.S. population *voted*.  Of them 51 or 52% voted for Bush.  Far short
>of the "mandate" that the Bushites touted but, who's counting?

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Re: [Biofuel] mixing time

2005-10-14 Thread bio









I have the best results when I let my
blender run about 45 minutes. I think you get a better reaction that way.

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Juan B
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005
3:08 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] mixing time



 

Hello everyone, 

I did couple of 1L batches and I am about to get it right I was wondering
for how long did you guys keep the blender or the mixer on ? 
thanks for the help
Juan






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Re: [Biofuel] White LYE

Hello [EMAIL PROTECTED]

>I read somewhere that pure lye is not white but sort of opaque and the white
>lye is not pure and you need to use more. About 25% more. Does anyone have
>any information on this?
>   I buy lye from a soap making shop and there is no marking on the
>container.

Well, you know how it is, you get little white lyes and big black ones. Sorry.

Probably this is what you read:

"Lye has a really limited shelf life: CO2 from the air neutralizes it 
and forms sodium carbonate. Carbonated lye is much whiter than pure 
lye, which is almost translucent. The carbonate in the lye won't harm 
the reaction, but you'll have to use more lye... [Reprocessing step.] 
If you plan to continue using the carbonated lye, make sure to 
increase the amount by 25% next time you make biodiesel. Store lye at 
room temperature, in dry conditions if possible, with the container 
lid really tightly closed."
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html
Foolproof biodiesel proces

It's white but the texture changes. When it's fresh it's a bit 
pearly, it goes more like chalk when it carbonises, both sodium and 
potassium hydroxide. Pearly-white vs chalky-white. If you let it pick 
up moisture from the atmosphere it goes even more pearly, with a 
moist film on the surface, then it sticks together in clumps.

Anyway it shouldn't be any bother as long as you use the same lye for 
the 0.01% NaOH/KOH solution to titrate the oil you're going to 
process as you use to process the oil.

Best wishes

Keith



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Re: [Biofuel] Why aren't there more manufacturers?

>David,
>
>Whoever would dump their byproducts is a fool, most of the methanol can be
>recovered, and the glycerine can be digested (see:
>http://www.journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/MethaneDigesters/MD6.html )
>and i'll bet you a dollar that you can use the white greasy junk from bad
>batches as a "shop soap" (it actually IS soap, but i wouldnt want it
>anywhere near MY dishes...)
>
>the tinker gives a damn,

Bravo Jason! :-)

I don't see how I'm going to avoid quoting you on that so I won't 
bother trying, IIATSTY. It's right up there with the title of an 
appropriate tech book called The Survival of the Fitter, about 
African engineers: "The first generation of grassroots engineers are 
wayside vehicle mechanics, or 'fitters', engaged in repairing 
machinery. The fitter's evolution to a manufacturer of tools, 
machines and equipment serving a wide range of 'secondary' urban and 
rural industries is central to progress in engineering, and 
engineering and engineers are central to the development of an 
economy."

Which stage do you think we're at by now, we backyard biofuels 
homebrewing tinkers? For one thing we're brewing up millions and 
millions of gallons of fuel all over the world, who cares about 
manufacturers? Local vs central? No match (IMHO).

Best wishes

Keith


>jason


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Re: [Biofuel] Keith I think you have a virus.....

Hi all
Well I am finally ready to try a mini test batch, yipee!
This is an excerpt from my morning newsletter. The names have been
changed to protect the innocent, hehe.
As I was leaving work I remembered that it was Thursday and if I was
to try my first batch of biodiesel this weekend I needed to get some
lye from the hardware store before it closed. They didn't carry Red
Devil Lye, the preferred product, but they did have several bottles of
caustic soda crystals under the brand name of Roto. I read the
ingredients several times and happily paid the clerk the $3.99 and out
the door I went. Lye without methanol would be like clapping with one
hand I am told by the biodieselers. Where was I going to get methanol?
On down the street to the auto parts store with renewed confidence I
went. I had found what I hoped was a suitable substitute for the first
ingredient while the store was shutting off the overhead lights. Into
the parts store and a bee-line for the liquids. On the shelf where the
fuel line de-icers were was several bottles of Heet. Checking the
ingredients I spied the words, "Contains methyl alcohol." This is the
stuff, methanol. I spent a whopping $2.00 more (2 little bottles) and
off I went with everything I need to begin my first mini test batch of
biodiesel.

So now I hear from Hugh in Los Lunas, by Albuquerque that he has a 55
gallon drum and pump for mineral oil. Yes, yes Hugh this is perfect,
please save it for me. Bring it next time you come up this way. Also,
Eric said he has a fairly decent chemistry setup left over from a
friend's pipe dream project which never saw the light of day. Beakers
and heaters and things I don't recall the names of. Please, please
pretty please folks do save anything you have for lab work. Let me get
these mini-test batches under my belt and I will begin to work out
just what my biodiesel lab will need to get this process geared up.
Another friend  Rand has offered help as well. I thank you all. This
newsletter is so very rewarding. I do a bunch of research while I keep
this chronicle posted to you all and we come together with the stuff
to make it all come about.

Oh yeah, I took the time to go eat lunch yesterday afternoon at my
favorite restaurant, Little Moon (Chinese American buffet). As I was
paying the bill I saw the owner behind the counter.  I introduced
myself and asked what they did with their WVO (waste veggie oil)? He
said his name was Tony and he didn't do anything with the used fryer
oil and he definitely did not throw it in the dumpster. Ok I said we
might be able to help each other out. How much WVO does the restaurant
produce in a week? He said he just got rid of all that he had (not on
the parking lot) but if I was to come back in one week, he should have
five, five gallon containers full. Holy Teriyaki Batman! Did I just
hit the jackpot? No wonder their food is so tasty, five gallons of
grease per day? Far be it for me to question the goose with the golden
eggs.

If this pans out like the owner of this restaurant suggests, I have a
source for oil that will be enough for me to create twenty gallons per
week of fuel for my diesel car! Only the cost of labor, energy to heat
the processor drums and the methanol. This latter is going to be the
tough one to source out. Race tracks sell methanol but we don't have a
race track. I understand that the gulf coast area is where to get
methanol from. I have heard it sells for less than two dollars per
gallon in Louisiana. It might cost the home brew biodiesel producer
$5.00 to $7.00 per gallon if the source wants to price gouge. How much
methanol will I need? Near as I can figure, 120ml of methanol to
1-liter of WVO. Some of the methanol is recoverable. By the way, many
of you have heard that biodiesel can harm your engine. Methanol mixed
with lye makes sodium methoxide, very caustic stuff. You don't want to
be putting any of that in your gas tank. If you have been following my
biodiesel process, you will see that several wash cycles are used.
Litmus paper is employed to make certain the ph of the biodiesel is
neutral before we put it in the tank.

So there it is.
I am stoked and more than ready to get on with it.
Brian Rodgers

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Re: [Biofuel] My first mini test batch this weekend!

Hi all
Well I am finally ready to try a mini test batch, yipee!
This is an excerpt from my morning newsletter. The names have been
changed to protect the innocent, hehe.
As I was leaving work I remembered that it was Thursday and if I was
to try my first batch of biodiesel this weekend I needed to get some
lye from the hardware store before it closed. They didn't carry Red
Devil Lye, the preferred product, but they did have several bottles of
caustic soda crystals under the brand name of Roto. I read the
ingredients several times and happily paid the clerk the $3.99 and out
the door I went. Lye without methanol would be like clapping with one
hand I am told by the biodieselers. Where was I going to get methanol?
On down the street to the auto parts store with renewed confidence I
went. I had found what I hoped was a suitable substitute for the first
ingredient while the store was shutting off the overhead lights. Into
the parts store and a bee-line for the liquids. On the shelf where the
fuel line de-icers were was several bottles of Heet. Checking the
ingredients I spied the words, "Contains methyl alcohol." This is the
stuff, methanol. I spent a whopping $2.00 more (2 little bottles) and
off I went with everything I need to begin my first mini test batch of
biodiesel.

So now I hear from Hugh in Los Lunas, by Albuquerque that he has a 55
gallon drum and pump for mineral oil. Yes, yes Hugh this is perfect,
please save it for me. Bring it next time you come up this way. Also,
Eric said he has a fairly decent chemistry setup left over from a
friend's pipe dream project which never saw the light of day. Beakers
and heaters and things I don't recall the names of. Please, please
pretty please folks do save anything you have for lab work. Let me get
these mini-test batches under my belt and I will begin to work out
just what my biodiesel lab will need to get this process geared up.
Another friend  Rand has offered help as well. I thank you all. This
newsletter is so very rewarding. I do a bunch of research while I keep
this chronicle posted to you all and we come together with the stuff
to make it all come about.

Oh yeah, I took the time to go eat lunch yesterday afternoon at my
favorite restaurant, Little Moon (Chinese American buffet). As I was
paying the bill I saw the owner behind the counter.  I introduced
myself and asked what they did with their WVO (waste veggie oil)? He
said his name was Tony and he didn't do anything with the used fryer
oil and he definitely did not throw it in the dumpster. Ok I said we
might be able to help each other out. How much WVO does the restaurant
produce in a week? He said he just got rid of all that he had (not on
the parking lot) but if I was to come back in one week, he should have
five, five gallon containers full. Holy Teriyaki Batman! Did I just
hit the jackpot? No wonder their food is so tasty, five gallons of
grease per day? Far be it for me to question the goose with the golden
eggs.

If this pans out like the owner of this restaurant suggests, I have a
source for oil that will be enough for me to create twenty gallons per
week of fuel for my diesel car! Only the cost of labor, energy to heat
the processor drums and the methanol. This latter is going to be the
tough one to source out. Race tracks sell methanol but we don't have a
race track. I understand that the gulf coast area is where to get
methanol from. I have heard it sells for less than two dollars per
gallon in Louisiana. It might cost the home brew biodiesel producer
$5.00 to $7.00 per gallon if the source wants to price gouge. How much
methanol will I need? Near as I can figure, 120ml of methanol to
1-liter of WVO. Some of the methanol is recoverable. By the way, many
of you have heard that biodiesel can harm your engine. Methanol mixed
with lye makes sodium methoxide, very caustic stuff. You don't want to
be putting any of that in your gas tank. If you have been following my
biodiesel process, you will see that several wash cycles are used.
Litmus paper is employed to make certain the ph of the biodiesel is
neutral before we put it in the tank.

So there it is.
I am stoked and more than ready to get on with it.
Brian Rodgers

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Re: [Biofuel] Keith I think you have a virus.....Do not open body.zip