Here's Pimentel's paper:
Ethanol Production Using Corn, Switchgrass, and Wood; Biodiesel
Production Using Soybean and Sunflower
David Pimentel and Tad W. Patzek
Natural Resources Research, Vol. 14, No. 1, March 2005 (C 2005)
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/Pimentel-Tadzek.pdf
News
Regarding use of "human manure," it's my understanding that sewage sludge
may be used in the USas a soil treatment for non-human-edible crops, and
in fact that a good bit of it is recycled that way. (See "Garbage Land --
On the Secret Trail of Trash, by Elizabeth Royte)
I, like a number of
in the back.
This just came to mind when you mentioned the diseases.
Ryan
- Original Message - From: r [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pimentel is at it again
If we assume that the human body knows what
, it was the hottest fad in living forever,
now it is top shelf in the back.
This just came to mind when you mentioned the diseases.
Ryan
- Original Message - From: r [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pimentel
Hello Ken
Keith Addison wrote:
You'll find societies that ate mostly vegetables and not much meat,
and others that ate mostly meat and very little vegetables or
grain, but none that only ate vegetables and grains and no meat.
Again, I don't think that I suggested that anyone else should
Keith said:
I suppose you could feed it to pigs if there's some pressing reason
not to sell it,
but the rational thing to do is to sell it, or you risk cutting the
profitability of a
major segment of the farm to perhaps below economic levels. It's the
sustainability
aspects that will
Ken Dunn - CountyEarth.com wrote:
Why do you object to milk production? Or is it, again, that you're
objecting to industrialised milk production?
I wouldn't say that I object to milk production at all, I am
questioning the sustainability of the practice and also the
nutritional value to
If we assume that the human body knows what it needs, then if human milk
is the most appropriate to feed humans, how come we are drinking cow
milk instead of human milk? How about industrialized human milk
production? That should help to cure/prevent a fair amount of diseases
prevalent in
r wrote:
If we assume that the human body knows what it needs, then if human
milk is the most appropriate to feed humans, how come we are drinking
cow milk instead of human milk? How about industrialized human milk
production? That should help to cure/prevent a fair amount of
diseases
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pimentel is at it again
If we assume that the human body knows what it needs, then if human milk
is the most appropriate to feed humans, how come we are drinking cow milk
instead of human milk? How about industrialized human milk
hi, keith.
In a message dated 7/8/05 2:22:30 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
todd,
you make an excellent point. i still remember how stunned i was when i
first
heard how much feed/grain/meal goes into each unit of meat purchased at the
supermarket.
And none of it necessary, nor of any benefit
Keith Addison wrote:
You'll find societies that ate mostly vegetables and not much meat,
and others that ate mostly meat and very little vegetables or grain,
but none that only ate vegetables and grains and no meat.
Again, I don't think that I suggested that anyone else should eat only
Hi Ken
I am pretty sure that our thinkings on these issues are fairly well
in line with one another.
I think so too. Sorry If I've been putting you on the defensive, but
IMO it's important to get it right, especially in the details. I'm
not always quoting you directly, as with this, from
todd,
you make an excellent point. i still remember how stunned i was when i first
heard how much feed/grain/meal goes into each unit of meat purchased at the
supermarket.
And none of it necessary, nor of any benefit compared with good
pasture. Cows thrive on grass, not on feed/grain/meal,
Greetings,
If I may chime in here, Please, once you discover the horrors that the
agribusiness way of raising animals is causing, buy 100% strictly grass fed
meat. For those of us that are fighting to build markets for our grass fed
meat, this would really help. The agribusiness guys are
Kim
If more people bought our meat, then our processing costs could come
down and we can become more affordable, but only the consumer can make this
happen. Deciding not to eat meat as an answer to agribusiness, just puts
many sustainable farmers out of business, which is what the
Message -
From: Ken Dunn [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org; Garth Kim Travis
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pimentel is at it again
Kim
If more people bought our meat, then our processing costs could come
down and we can
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pimentel is at it again
Kim
If more people bought our meat, then our processing costs could come
down and we can become more affordable, but only the consumer can make
this
happen. Deciding not to eat meat as an answer to agribusiness, just
puts
many
Garth Kim Travis wrote:
Greetings,
If I may chime in here, Please, once you discover the horrors that the
agribusiness way of raising animals is causing, buy 100% strictly grass
fed meat.
I have a question I'd like to pose to those of you who are growing
grass fed cattle. What happens
. It tastes so good
though. Would I need to go to a local farmer specifically, or can I buy it
in stores?
Thanks,
Ryan
- Original Message -
From: Garth Kim Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 5:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pimentel
several clients who own dairy farms, and these people insist that
dairy cows must be fed some grain in order to produce high quality
milk. Not having any experience in this area, I have nothing to say
in response.
Most modern high yield milkers need some food/mineral supplements,
normally
Greetings Robert,
I do happen to know personally the people who have a legal raw milk dairy
in Texas and their cows are 100% grass fed. If your grass is up to snuff,
then there is no difference. What I have found is that it takes more time
and energy and a real learning curve to keep
Ryan said:
Would I need to go to a local farmer specifically, or can I buy it
in stores?
You can check this out. I stumbled across it earlier.
http://www.eatwild.com/products/index.html
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to a local farmer specifically, or can
I buy it in stores?
Thanks,
Ryan
- Original Message - From: Garth Kim Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 5:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pimentel is at it again
Greetings,
If I may chime in here
Ken,
There are many samples of orphan babies of one animal, that have been fed
and raised by the mother of other different animals.
Hakan
At 06:15 AM 7/7/2005, you wrote:
FWIW - My cat drinks milk from cows.
Derek
-- Original message --
From: Ken Dunn -
Robert,
We tolerate milk well, as long as we regularly drink it. If one stop to
drink milk for a long period, it is common that the tolerance goes down and
often the stomach will react violently against starting again. Often the
body develop an allergy against milk products, after a long
Perhaps of interest:
David Pimentel
Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]
Best wishes
Keith
Hello John
Thanks to a post at TDIclub, I discovered that Pimentel has
released yet another report on ethanol. Looking at the dates below,
he's a month ahead of schedule this year.
Hello Ken
Keith,
Your make many points that give me reason for pause. However, I can
wait for someone else to do something about the problems that exist
or I can do something myself - done!
Quite right! Did you see Darryl's sig? It's your planet. If you
won't look after it, who will?
Hi Robert
snip
The Masai drink the blood of their animals. Is that better, or
worse? Does it matter?
Blood and milk, and it turns out they eat a lot of herbs and stuff
too. Whether better or worse, it sustained them in superb health
through many centuries.
You have to read Nutrition
Greetings,
It is not just the long hiatus that harms our ability to digest milk, but
the pasteurization which turns milk into a cooked protein. Raw milk is
wonderful. Texas now has legal raw dairies, but the price tag [$8/gal]
definitely makes owning your own cow look good.
Bright
Keith Addison wrote:
Blood and milk, and it turns out they eat a lot of herbs and stuff too.
Whether better or worse, it sustained them in superb health through many
centuries.
This was my point! Some people recoil at the idea of eating dairy
products, but the evidence often cited falls
Hakan
This is a good point, remember Rómulo and Remo!!!
Sven
___
Mecánica Agrícola
Fac. Cs. Agrarias - UNCuyo
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Keith,
Along with active and informed opposition to factory farming,
industrialised farming and the food industry, that might be more
effective than just condemning meat and meat-eaters. Meat is bad vs
Do you know where that meat you're eating comes from? That
particular meat.
First, I
todd,
you make an excellent point. i still remember how stunned i was when i first
heard how much feed/grain/meal goes into each unit of meat purchased at the
supermarket.
also, i understand there are aspects of chemistry involved which limit this
to some degree (especially when it comes to
All that having been said, Pimental is right that soy
and corn alone cannot replace our petroleum addiction
Essentially, soybeans are not grown for their oil value. They're grown
for the feed value, whether human destined or livestock. The oil is more
a co-product, almost waste product in
Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Reduce the meat centered diet to one that treats meat as a delicacy rather
than a mainstay and vast acreages could be diverted to liquid fuel
production and cellulosic ethanol production rather than feed meal.
Interesting thought (basically the same
Hello John
Thanks to a post at TDIclub, I discovered that Pimentel has released
yet another report on ethanol. Looking at the dates below, he's a
month ahead of schedule this year.
You're right John, every year I have to do an update on it at our website:
Ken Dunn wrote:
Interesting thought (basically the same reason that I gave up meat 6 years
ago), I am curious how many American meat-eaters would give up the habit if it
ever came down having your choice between meat or energy but not both.
The problem is not meat, per se, it's the manner
A new process developed by the University of Wisconsin was posted on this
board a while back (it's in the archives.) The process talks about green
diesel and using the entire feedstock instead of just the fatty acids.
I don't know the feasability of making this process a commercially accepted
Hello Ryan
A new process developed by the University of Wisconsin was posted on
this board a while back (it's in the archives.) The process talks
about green diesel and using the entire feedstock instead of just
the fatty acids.
I don't know the feasability of making this process a
; Keith Addison
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pimentel is at it again
Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Meat is most certainly a sustainable food source. More than that,
there is no sustainable way to maintain and renew soil fertility for
crop growth without raising animals too. Nature never
Hello Ken
Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Meat is most certainly a sustainable food source. More than that,
there is no sustainable way to maintain and renew soil fertility for
crop growth without raising animals too. Nature never attempts it,
and Man's attempts are doomed to failure
Keith,
Your make many points that give me reason for pause. However, I can
wait for someone else to do something about the problems that exist or I
can do something myself - done! The majority of U.S. citizens will
continue to eat meat and larger quantities than responsible and probably
of
FWIW - My cat drinks milk from cows.
Derek
-- Original message --
From: Ken Dunn - CountyEarth.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Keith,
Your make many points that give me reason for pause. However, I can
wait for someone else to do something about the problems that
Ken Dunn - CountyEarth.com wrote:
A point of interest, though, I don't know of any animal aside from
humans that consume the milk of another animal, though, I'm sure there
probably is at least one. Can someone name one?
I have cats that like goat milk. Dogs will drink just about
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