Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

Please keep in mind that round-trip is in considerable use to describe the overall geometry of cycling and hiking routes. Don't change the meaning. On Mon, 23 Dec 2019, 11:09 Peter Elderson, wrote: > True! I have seen a few educational or theme routes that way. In that > case it's meant to be

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

True! I have seen a few educational or theme routes that way. In that case it's meant to be a roundtrip, or you make a roundtrip using the same way back by necessity. Regular linear hikes are not meant to be used as roundtrips, though you could go back the same way of course. I would use

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

On 23/12/19 18:51, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: sent from a phone On 22. Dec 2019, at 16:43, Peter Elderson wrote: A linear walking route marked in both directions is not a roundtrip. You're not guided to turn around at the end and return to the start. there are cases where it’s

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

sent from a phone > On 22. Dec 2019, at 16:43, Peter Elderson wrote: > > A linear walking route marked in both directions is not a roundtrip. You're > not guided to turn around at the end and return to the start. there are cases where it’s unavoidable, because there is only one way.

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

Good point. I would say roundtrip is the service provided. But if a route is designed for roundtrip service i.e. if you remain seated you end up at the starting point, roundtrip becomes an attribute of the route. However, most PT allows you to book or perform a roundtrip. Because even if you get

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

> > If following the route marking you will get back to start... It's a circular > route. > As previously stated you could find marking on both directions and be a > single line straight and then reverse. > With old wiki definition this is Roundtrip=no... Now it is Roundtrip=yes > Seems sane to

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

3 240 (10%) objects with rountrip=3 also have public_transport:version=* ex https://www.ratp.fr/plans-lignes/noctilien/n01 https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1083331 Le 22.12.19 à 11:57, Peter Elderson a écrit : > For PT, roundtrip is not an attribute of the route > >> Op 21 dec. 2019 om

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

Il dom 22 dic 2019, 11:59 Peter Elderson ha scritto: > For PT, roundtrip is not an attribute of the route, it's a type of ticket > or it's what you use the transport for. You can do a roundtrip on a > circular line, but also on non-circular lines or mostly non-circular with a > loop at the end,

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

For PT, roundtrip is not an attribute of the route, it's a type of ticket or it's what you use the transport for. You can do a roundtrip on a circular line, but also on non-circular lines or mostly non-circular with a loop at the end, whatever. To express that a PT route is circular, I think

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

On 21/12/19 21:25, Francesco Ansanelli wrote: And with existing tags how you describe it? I don't. Il sab 21 dic 2019, 10:28 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com > ha scritto: On 21/12/19 19:49, Francesco Ansanelli wrote: Dear Volker, I saw that someone

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

I always thought that routrip=yes was an alternative when there is no start and end point to enter in from=* to=* key. Otherwise circular routes with a known start/end point can enter as from=A via=B to=A. ___ Tagging mailing list

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 at 14:43, Phake Nick wrote: > Reminder 1: There are loops within bus route doesn't mean the route is a > circular or round trip route. > Fully agreed. That's why I am saying we need to alok at this with a bit of calm. There plenty of diferent route toplogies Reminder 2: The

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

Reminder 1: There are loops within bus route doesn't mean the route is a circular or round trip route. Reminder 2: The roundtrip=* key is designed to use in combination with hiking routes or bicycle routes. A hiking/bicyle route that goes A→B→A which come back with the same start point with exact

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

Il sab 21 dic 2019, 12:33 Volker Schmidt ha scritto: > This is missing the point. > I only want to point out that apparently roundtrip=yes without any > additional tagging is being used as meaning "this route is a loop" and > "round-trip=no" as meaning it's an A-to-b route. This should remain

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

This is missing the point. I only want to point out that apparently roundtrip=yes without any additional tagging is being used as meaning "this route is a loop" and "round-trip=no" as meaning it's an A-to-b route. This should remain valid. And let us consider how to cater for other cases. Any

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

And with existing tags how you describe it? Il sab 21 dic 2019, 10:28 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > On 21/12/19 19:49, Francesco Ansanelli wrote: > > Dear Volker, > > I saw that someone went ahead and changed the wiki again: > > Use roundtrip=yes to indicate that start and end of a

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

On 21/12/19 19:49, Francesco Ansanelli wrote: Dear Volker, I saw that someone went ahead and changed the wiki again: Use roundtrip=yes to indicate that start and end of a route are at the same location. I think this new definition matches your idea of roundtrip and it's fine for both

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

Dear Volker, I saw that someone went ahead and changed the wiki again: Use roundtrip=yes to indicate that start and end of a route are at the same location. I think this new definition matches your idea of roundtrip and it's fine for both definitions. My last offer is to abandon the closed_loop

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

Please revert the roundtrip wiki change, but let's put any other wiki-changes on halt for a moment. What we need to do is to find out how the roundtrip tag is being used (the wiki is suposed to document the actual use, not what the use should be) and in particular if there is a more-than sporadic

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

In my opinion the options are: - deprecate roundtrip in favour of 2 tags with a generally agreed naming convention (best at this point) - keep roundtrip and closed_loop with the wiki definition I did change (relations must be updated accordingly) I read many of you asked a revert, I just want to

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

On 19/12/2019 22:48, Phake Nick wrote: Merriam Webster and some other resources you have quoted are dictionary for American English, not the variant of English used by OSM. Posts by original author of the topic on the wiki talk page have explained the meaning of the term in British English.

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

On 20/12/19 17:18, Francesco Ansanelli wrote: Il ven 20 dic 2019, 01:16 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com > ha scritto: On 20/12/19 10:15, Chris Hill wrote: I have been a native British English speaker for about sixty years. A trip from A to B and then

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

Il ven 20 dic 2019, 01:16 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > On 20/12/19 10:15, Chris Hill wrote: > > I have been a native British English speaker for about sixty years. A trip > from A to B and then back to A, either on a fully reversed route or an > alternative route, would could be

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

Il ven 20 dic 2019, 04:21 Graeme Fitzpatrick ha scritto: > > > > On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 at 10:37, Martin Koppenhoefer > wrote: > >> >> it’s in the “back again”, makes it likely you take the same way. >> > > Sorry, Martin, not at all. I do a weekly round trip of ~38 klm - roughly > 13 k down & 15 k

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

I think roundtrip is not about the route taken, but about the transport taking you somewhere, you do your thing there, then transport back to where you started. It's more like a service kind of thing. I don't use it when the relation shows exactly what the route is. I only find it useful to

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 at 10:37, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > it’s in the “back again”, makes it likely you take the same way. > Sorry, Martin, not at all. I do a weekly round trip of ~38 klm - roughly 13 k down & 15 k back, mainly because I leave the Motorway at exit 92 but have to come back on

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

On 20/12/19 11:36, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: sent from a phone On 20. Dec 2019, at 01:16, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: Oxford Dictionary (usually taken as a good source for UK English): a journey to a place and back again it’s in the “back again”, makes it likely you take the

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

sent from a phone > On 20. Dec 2019, at 01:16, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Oxford Dictionary (usually taken as a good source for UK English): a journey > to a place and back again it’s in the “back again”, makes it likely you take the same way. The word “Rundweg” which

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

On 20/12/19 10:15, Chris Hill wrote: I have been a native British English speaker for about sixty years. A trip from A to B and then back to A, either on a fully reversed route or an alternative route, would could be described as a round trip. There is certainly no element of a curved or

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

I have been a native British English speaker for about sixty years. A trip from A to B and then back to A, either on a fully reversed route or an alternative route, would could be described as a round trip. There is certainly no element of a curved or looping route required to make it a round

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

Merriam Webster and some other resources you have quoted are dictionary for American English, not the variant of English used by OSM. Posts by original author of the topic on the wiki talk page have explained the meaning of the term in British English. 在 2019年12月20日週五 06:19，Francesco Ansanelli

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

Il gio 19 dic 2019, 23:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > On 20/12/19 01:16, Francesco Ansanelli wrote: > > Dear List, > > > > I have updated the roundtrip page and created the closed loop proposal > > in order to address the misuse of the first tag: > >

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

On 20/12/19 01:16, Francesco Ansanelli wrote: Dear List, I have updated the roundtrip page and created the closed loop proposal in order to address the misuse of the first tag: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:roundtrip

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

If a route ends where it begins, it's a roundtrip, but you don't need to tag that because it's in the relation. The only thing I find useful is tagging roundtrip=yes when the route is not a true closed loop, but still catalogues for hikers as a roundtrip, even though it may have branches and

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

sent from a phone > On 19. Dec 2019, at 22:16, Volker Schmidt wrote: > > you have changed the meaning of the tag from inluding the possibility of a > loop to exluding it. it may be too early to change definitions, but previous discussions have shown that there was confusion about the

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 at 21:45, Francesco Ansanelli wrote: > > > Il gio 19 dic 2019, 21:28 Phake Nick ha scritto: > >> The current usage is that, "Use roundtrip=yes to indicate that the start >> and finish of the route are at the same location". As in a route from Paris >> to Milano to Frankfurt

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

Il gio 19 dic 2019, 21:28 Phake Nick ha scritto: > The current usage is that, "Use roundtrip=yes to indicate that the start > and finish of the route are at the same location". As in a route from Paris > to Milano to Frankfurt then back to Paris would be tagged as roundtrip=yes. > You have

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

The current usage is that, "Use roundtrip=yes to indicate that the start and finish of the route are at the same location". As in a route from Paris to Milano to Frankfurt then back to Paris would be tagged as roundtrip=yes. You have edited the wiki against established usage to make it become a

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

Dear Volker, I haven't change the meaning of Roundtrip, but just reworded to clarify it. Roundtrip yes is not a closed loop... Please check this discussion: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:roundtrip#loop Cheers Francesco Il gio 19 dic 2019, 15:40 Volker Schmidt ha scritto: >

Re: [Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

Please relable your "roundtrip" proposal as such. Please do not change the meaning of an established tag. roundtrip=yes|no is used about 34k times, based on a different definition, see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cycle_routes#Relations Volker On Thu, 19 Dec 2019 at 15:18, Francesco

[Tagging] Roundtrip and closed loop in relations

Dear List, I have updated the roundtrip page and created the closed loop proposal in order to address the misuse of the first tag: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:roundtrip https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:closed_loop=yes Please let me know what you think Many