[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - lanes General Extension

2012-02-06 Thread Martin Vonwald
A proposal for a completely extensible and generic extension to allow definitions of lane properties: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/lanes_General_Extension Based on this at least the following problems should be solvable: * Different properties for each lane, e.g. maxspeed,

Re: [Tagging] Multi-value tagging and Lane Groups

2012-02-08 Thread Martin Vonwald
Am 08.02.2012 um 15:38 schrieb Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl: On 08/02/2012 13:40, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 6. building:levelPlan=*What each storey is used for, Examples: 0-2: shop, 3-12: residential; 0: restaurant, 1: residential; -1: unused, 0: lobby, 1: restuarant, 2-12:

Re: [Tagging] Multi-value tagging and Lane Groups

2012-02-08 Thread Martin Vonwald
What you describe is proposed here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/lanes_General_Extension Martin Am 08.02.2012 um 15:38 schrieb Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl: On 08/02/2012 13:40, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 6. building:levelPlan=*What each storey is used for,

Re: [Tagging] Multi-value tagging and Lane Groups

2012-02-08 Thread Martin Vonwald
I suggest putting the lanes qualifier in front, allowing arbitrary tag hierarchies to follow at a fixed location. This was suggested, but dropped for better readability: see Default values; minimise ambiguity on the Discussion page. You introduce a new tag applies_to to limit the lane to a

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - lanes General Extension (suffix or prefix)

2012-02-09 Thread Martin Vonwald
As there is some discussion on this mailing list about adding either a suffix or prefix would be better for the mentioned proposal, I added a section at the end of the Discussions page and reopened the issue there. Please comment on this there. Many thanks! Martin

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - lanes General Extension (suffix or prefix) LINK ADDED!

2012-02-09 Thread Martin Vonwald
--- Sorry - I forgot the link in my last mail. --- As there is some discussion on this mailing list about adding either a suffix or prefix would be better for the mentioned proposal, I added a section at the end of the Discussions page and reopened the issue there. Please comment on this there.

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - lanes General Extension

2012-03-05 Thread Martin Vonwald
issues weren't solved there. I really tried to incorporate as much as possible in this proposal, but still keep it simple. I hope I was successful. Finally I want to thank all of you who took part in the discussion and helped to bring this proposal on its way. Martin Vonwald

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - lanes General Extension

2012-03-05 Thread Martin Vonwald
and extendible I assume it will stay this way. Thanks for your feedback. Martin 2012/3/5 Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de: Martin Vonwald wrote: The proposal http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/lanes_General_Extension is now open for voting. Is voting on this really helpful right

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - lanes General Extension

2012-03-06 Thread Martin Vonwald
The much more relevant precedent are existing attempts to tag lanes. One example is indeed lanes:forward/backward. But there are other examples for existing lane tagging which are also documented on the wiki, and used more frequently than your example according to taginfo: ~ 11.500

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - lanes General Extension

2012-03-07 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/3/7 Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de: Martin Vonwald wrote: ~ 11.500 cycleway:left/right ~ 10.000 footway=left/right, 22.000 if you count both (same proposal) ~  4.500 footway:left/right/both:* As far as I understand, those are ways next to the carriageway. If they are mapped as tags

Re: [Tagging] dispute about center island in a turning circle

2012-03-13 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/3/13 Josh Doe j...@joshdoe.com: Definitely not a turning_circle. Either map as a loop Yes. or mini_roundabout. Definitively no. You can drive straight through a mini-roundabout. You could try this at this road at your own risk! (I recommend a good car and health insurance ;-) ) See

Re: [Tagging] dispute about center island in a turning circle

2012-03-13 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/3/13 Josh Doe j...@joshdoe.com: Ah, another UK peculiarity. I guess I've been misapplying As far as I know it is the same e.g. in Hungary. highway=mini_roundabout; but if so, we need to change this language on the wiki page: The mini-roundabout _usually_ does not have a physical island

Re: [Tagging] dispute about center island in a turning circle

2012-03-13 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/3/13 Ronnie Soak chaoschaos0...@googlemail.com: The German Wiki (probably translated from the English original) states that the difference is exactly (and only) the form of the central island and the tagging should be done according to this feature. As far as I know, this is correct. The

Re: [Tagging] dispute about center island in a turning circle

2012-03-13 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/3/13 Josh Doe j...@joshdoe.com: 4) Tag as turning_circle, perhaps additionally using a traffic_calming=* value such as island [2] My vote is for #4. Time for me to try out Overpass to get my mis-tagged features... For me this sounds like using two inappropriate tags instead of one.

Re: [Tagging] Preventing traffic signs - Invitation to discussion

2012-03-14 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/3/14 Ronnie Soak chaoschaos0...@googlemail.com: Please also see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Hazard_warning What about a combination of both? Tagging the traffic_sign=* at the node on the way roughly where the sign is, then tag the hazard=* along the way or on

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Reversible lane (tidal flow)

2012-03-26 Thread Martin Vonwald
Hi! This is a follow-up proposal for the :lanes proposal. I suggest the introduction of a new key to tag all kinds of reversible lanes: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/reversible_lane Your comments are welcome. Martin ___ Tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Reversible lane (tidal flow)

2012-03-26 Thread Martin Vonwald
: On 3/26/2012 7:18 AM, Martin Vonwald wrote: Hi! This is a follow-up proposal for the :lanes proposal. I suggest the introduction of a new key to tag all kinds of reversible lanes: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/reversible_lane A center turn lane is not a reversible lane

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Reversible lane (tidal flow)

2012-03-26 Thread Martin Vonwald
! Martin 2012/3/26 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: On 3/26/2012 7:47 AM, Martin Vonwald wrote: I took the notation from the wikipedia page linked in the proposal. I don't know why Wikipedia groups them, but it at least doesn't say that a center turn lane is a reversible lane. http

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-dev] Directionality of lanes

2012-03-27 Thread Martin Vonwald
Thanks for that. That proposal might come in handy for tagging information about left-hand/right-hand traffic, which is needed to render individual lanes. Martin 2012/3/27 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org wrote: This thread shouldn't

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - highway=junction

2012-04-16 Thread Martin Vonwald
Hi! Something new to comment on: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/highway%3Djunction The intention is to make mapping of junctions easier and provide some information about the extent of a junction and what nodes/ways/features belong to a single, individual junction. Please

[Tagging] Dispute prevention: meaning of lanes tag

2012-04-19 Thread Martin Vonwald
Hi! I'm planning to improve the articles (english, german and russian) for the lanes-tag (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:lanes). Right now a few points are left open and desperately need some clarification. As some of the latest changes lead to some dispute (see [1]) I will let you know

Re: [Tagging] Dispute prevention: meaning of lanes tag

2012-04-19 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/4/19 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: * PSV lanes SHOULD be included (also [2]). Example: lanes=3 and lanes:psv=1 means we have three lanes and one OF THEM is for PSV only. Don't forget other reserved lanes like taxi lanes... Thanks - I won't. * Parking lanes/spaces should NOT be included

Re: [Tagging] Dispute prevention: meaning of lanes tag

2012-04-19 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/4/19 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 3:14 PM, fly But how to map it ? bicycle:lanes:forward:psv=yes ? As Pieren already wrote: this is beyond the scope of the lanes tag. But as you already asked: if you want to tag the mere presence of a cycle lane, use cycleway=lane

Re: [Tagging] Dispute prevention: meaning of lanes tag

2012-04-20 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/4/19 Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net: * PSV lanes SHOULD be included (also [2]). Example: lanes=3 and lanes:psv=1 means we have three lanes and one OF THEM is for PSV only. Same goes for HOV (high-occupancy-vehicles) lanes, unless they are separately mapped (which is a better

Re: [Tagging] Dispute prevention: meaning of lanes tag

2012-04-20 Thread Martin Vonwald
There is a discussion about PSV lanes, but what about emergency lanes. Nobody is allowed to use it, with the exception of people who have to stop for a car problem, or by emergency vehicles when there is a traffic jam on the other lanes (at least, that's the case in Belgium). This is not one

Re: [Tagging] Dispute prevention: meaning of lanes tag

2012-04-21 Thread Martin Vonwald
Am 21.04.2012 um 14:23 schrieb Ilpo Järvinen ilpo.jarvi...@helsinki.fi: I would recommend lanes=2 and width=xxx. Maybe give some examples for the widths of some common, narrow roads? Can someone provide photos and widths? !?! ...No! Unfortunately this was exactly what I oppose! Sorry, I

Re: [Tagging] Dispute prevention: meaning of lanes tag

2012-04-22 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/4/21 Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk: You can Tag lanes:forward= and lanes:backward= Would this make sense? Lanes=3 Lanes:forward=2 Lanes:backward=2 No, it wouldn't. This was one of the reasons, why I suggested an additional suffix both-ways in the original version of the lanes

Re: [Tagging] Dispute prevention: meaning of lanes tag

2012-04-22 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/4/21 Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk: The words the use are 'generally more than 4m wide' and 'generally less than 4m wide'. Roads of this width will vary in width, they are almost never the same width throughout. Can we agree on that for narrow roads, where one can not determine the

Re: [Tagging] Dispute prevention: meaning of lanes tag

2012-04-22 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/4/22 Jason Cunningham jamicu...@googlemail.com: After reading through these emails I'm beginning to think the lanes=1.5 would less confusing for narrow two lane roads. The problem with lanes=1.5 stays: data consumers might not be able to handle this correctly. What we need right now is a

Re: [Tagging] Dispute prevention: meaning of lanes tag

2012-04-23 Thread Martin Vonwald
On April 23rd 2012 13:05 many people wrote something about car width . The only reason we started discussing about the width of vehicles was a recommendation for narrow roads with two lanes to replace the lanes=1.5: if someone can not or does not want to measure the width of the road,

Re: [Tagging] Dispute prevention: meaning of lanes tag

2012-04-23 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/4/23 Jason Cunningham jamicu...@googlemail.com: Problem with that, and why I am said this is far more complex than I first thought, is some people responding to lanes=1.5 by saying 'computers' only like whole numbers. This suggests width=4.3 would need to be rounded to either width=4 or

Re: [Tagging] Dispute prevention: meaning of lanes tag

2012-04-24 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/4/23 Kytömaa Lauri lauri.kyto...@aalto.fi: If one does not consider parked cars _at all_, the first example of my previous post (at the end) with a 9 meter wide carriageway and no markings would have to be lanes=3 Of course not. It would be lanes=2. The width isn't decisive for the lane

Re: [Tagging] area=yes on polygones (was Block names)

2012-04-25 Thread Martin Vonwald
The german article still has the recommendation of adding area=yes. One of the biggest problems in the wiki is the fact, that very often articles in different languages are not really translations, but different articles. As the tag railway=platform is applicable to areas as well, according to

[Tagging] OSMI layers in JOSM

2012-04-25 Thread Martin Vonwald
Hi all! I'm trying to view the OSMI layers in JOSM. The all-knowing, all-seeing trash heap pointed me to this (german) article: http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=9315 There it is recommended to use the following link in JOSM:

Re: [Tagging] OSMI layers in JOSM

2012-04-26 Thread Martin Vonwald
schreef Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com het volgende: Hi all! I'm trying to view the OSMI layers in JOSM. The all-knowing, all-seeing trash heap pointed me to this (german) article: http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=9315 There it is recommended to use the following link

Re: [Tagging] Dispute prevention: meaning of lanes tag

2012-04-26 Thread Martin Vonwald
To give you an advance warning: the updated article is finished and currently available here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Imagic/Werkstatt If there are no major objections I will update the lanes article tomorrow. Minor objections we can further discuss after the update - otherwise it

Re: [Tagging] Dispute prevention: meaning of lanes tag

2012-04-26 Thread Martin Vonwald
of the hard shoulder on managed sections of motorway, but I cannot read dutch. We have these on the M6 and M42. Thanks Phil On 26/04/2012 10:30 Martin Vonwald wrote: To give you an advance warning: the updated article is finished and currently available here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] Dispute prevention: meaning of lanes tag

2012-04-26 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/4/26 Georg Feddern o...@bavarianmallet.de: Shall this lane - be counted - because it is a managed lane, but that it is only sometimes - or not - because it is most of the time an emergency lane Yes, it shall be counted, because it is all the time a managed lane, that is sometimes open for

Re: [Tagging] Dispute prevention: meaning of lanes tag

2012-04-26 Thread Martin Vonwald
I added a sentence explaining what a managed lane is. Understandable now? 2012/4/26 Georg Feddern o...@bavarianmallet.de: Am 26.04.2012 13:07, schrieb Colin Smale: 1) the hard shoulder is sometimes opened to traffic, creating an extra lane on the right this case is used in Germany in

Re: [Tagging] Dispute prevention: meaning of lanes tag

2012-04-27 Thread Martin Vonwald
The narrow road example was clearly the wrong image. I changed that to lanes=1 and added a photo from Philip Barnes as example for a narrow two-lane road. Further I removed the assumptions for two-way motorways/trunks, as it is recommend to map their carriageways as two separate way. Anyone else

Re: [Tagging] Dispute prevention: meaning of lanes tag

2012-04-29 Thread Martin Vonwald
Those examples are very good. Any chance we could get some license-compatible photos in the near future? 2012/4/21 Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk: On Sat, 2012-04-21 at 10:19 +0200, Ronnie Soak wrote: I would only use a lanes value other than 2 if there are clear road markings, signs or

Re: [Tagging] Dispute prevention: meaning of lanes tag

2012-04-29 Thread Martin Vonwald
As no further issues were raised with the updated article I will replace the current lanes-article with my current version. Before that I added a point in the Open issues section about lanes=1.5 and modified the note at the end of the section Narrow road. As lanes=1.5 wasn't documented before and

Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] First bona fide mini-roundabout spotted

2012-05-07 Thread Martin Vonwald
The difference between a roundabout and a mini-roundabout is the center: you can - and in fact are allowed to under certain circumstances - drive straight over the island in the middle of a mini-roundabout. You better not try this on a roundabout. ;-) For a more detailed explanation see

[Tagging] Photos of mini-roundabouts, small roundabouts, turning circles and similar

2012-05-09 Thread Martin Vonwald
Hi, Because of the (again) discussion concerning mini-roundabouts, I'm looking for photos of the following: * (real) mini-roundabouts * small roundabouts (not mini-roundabouts) * turning circles, no matter what shape * turning circles with a non-traversable island in the middle * anything that

Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] First bona fide mini-roundabout spotted

2012-05-09 Thread Martin Vonwald
I guess(!) the discussion is so complicated, because some people misinterpreted for whatever reason a mini-roundabout with a small roundabout, tagged it as mini and now don't want to fix all their existing tags. I can understand (but not support) the latter, but I don't understand why we

Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] First bona fide mini-roundabout spotted

2012-05-09 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/9 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: I am not aware of a plugin, but you can draw a way with 2 nodes (diameter) and hit SHIFT+O, this will create a circle (you can set the default node amount for the circle in advanced preferences). You'd then tag this correctly, ensure that it

Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] First bona fide mini-roundabout spotted

2012-05-09 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/9 Anthony o...@inbox.org: It's also what the wiki tells us to do (in some places):  Small roundabouts are just represented as a node which is tagged highway=mini_roundabout. (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:junction%3Droundabout) Hm.. ok, this is just plain wrong. And what I

Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] First bona fide mini-roundabout spotted

2012-05-09 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/9 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: There is a coming enhancement for Potlatch 2 that does something like this. It's still waiting to be reviewed. It's actually a bit more streamlined: you select the intersection node, move the mouse to where the roundabout should be, press 'A', and

[Tagging] Openstreetview or similar and JOSM integration

2012-05-10 Thread Martin Vonwald
Hi! Is there any (planned) project out there, where one can upload geotagged photos, maybe view them on a map and use them directly in JOSM? I was thinking about the same way as GPS traces are now uploaded to OSM and JOSM can download and display them. I know openstreetview but is seems not that

Re: [Tagging] Openstreetview or similar and JOSM integration

2012-05-10 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/10 Ferenc Veres l...@netngine.hu: OpenStreetView is for presenting nice photos if nice places, isn't it? It looks so. Not for boring photos of opening hours tables and such SURVEY INFO. :-)  What's your aim? That's exactly my aim: survey info. I would also like to know if there is

[Tagging] Dispute on highway=mini_roundabout

2012-05-10 Thread Martin Vonwald
As expected the user NE2 tries to rewrite the wiki so that it fits his personal view of the world: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:highway%3Dmini_roundaboutaction=history He constantly ignores the fact, that a small roundabout is not a mini-roundabout as different rules apply

Re: [Tagging] Dispute on highway=mini_roundabout

2012-05-11 Thread Martin Vonwald
As there seems to be a consensus approaching on the horizon, I'll continue to work on some examples (positive and negative) to prevent misinterpretation in the future. I already got some nice photos (but could also need some more) so I guess I can finish it quite soon. As usually I'll post a link

[Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-13 Thread Martin Vonwald
Hi! As promised I created a few (positive/negative) examples of roundabouts, mini-roundabouts and turning circles to prevent misinterpretations in the future. I respected the current tagging scheme as described in the wiki, but also used once the suggested junction=roundabout on a node, which was

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-14 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/14 Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us: On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: What is the difference between traffic_calming=chicane and a small roundabout?  Is it based on who has the right of way? Here is an example in Seattle. http://g.co/maps/nvhfh  We

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-14 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/14 Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.com: That's not what I would call a chicane. For me, they generally involve obstructions protruding from the sides of a road. There's a picture on Wikipedia here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/One-lane_chicane_1.jpg. According to

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-14 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/14 Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de: I consider neither that example nor the ones on your roundabout example page a chicane. Instead, I'd specifically expect _alternating_ obstructions on the left and right side of the road. Your example is more like an island. What is your

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-14 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/14 Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com: 2012/5/14 Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de: I consider neither that example nor the ones on your roundabout example page a chicane. Instead, I'd specifically expect _alternating_ obstructions on the left and right side of the road. Your example

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-14 Thread Martin Vonwald
Hi! The reworked article about junction=roundabout is now more or less finished, so please comment on the whole article: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Imagic/Werkstatt Still open, so please provide feedback: * Decision if traffic_calming=chicane or traffic_calming=island should be used

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-14 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/14 Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de: If anyone of you is going to edit that page anyway, please add the combination suggestions with highway=crossing; crossing=island; I would say, not all islands are island-crossings, but (nearly all) crossings with an islands calm down

Re: [Tagging] Turning circle with island or turning loop (was Re: (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-14 Thread Martin Vonwald
It looks good to me, except for the last example of a turning loop as I've been calling it. We're going to have the same problem with this one, because they are abundant and very small, thus people will likely mis-tag it rather than drawing a tiny loop. When I fixed up some of westendguy's

Re: [Tagging] Turning circle with island or turning loop (was Re: (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-15 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/15 Josh Doe j...@joshdoe.com: The longer I think about it, the more I'm asking myself: do we really need a tag for this? If someone doesn't want to map it as loop, why not simply end the road without any additional tag? What information are we missing then, that we are not missing if we

Re: [Tagging] Turning circle with island or turning loop (was Re: (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-15 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/15 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2012/5/15 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: Imho, if you want to indicate a turning-circle island, it's micro-mapping : you should better draw the loop geometry instead of creating a tag for the geometry (in the same way we don't tag roundabout

Re: [Tagging] Turning circle with island or turning loop (was Re: (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-15 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/15 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: Btw, current wiki description is funny : place to turn around .. but it is not a turning circle. Well, that's why it is in the Danger of confusion section ;-) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-15 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/15 Anthony o...@inbox.org: Also, is it acceptable to simply map the feature as a circular way, rather than use traffic_calming=island? I don't think so. Because the street is not a circular way, but instead there is an island in the middle of the street. At least this is my

Re: [Tagging] Turning circle with island or turning loop (was Re: (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-15 Thread Martin Vonwald
/5/15 Phil! Gold phi...@pobox.com: * Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com [2012-05-15 14:11 +0200]: Now the only issue remaining is: how? Right now I see two solutions: 1) highway=turning_circle and turning_circle=island or traffic_calming=island 2) new tag like e.g. highway=turning_loop [snip

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-15 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/15 Anthony o...@inbox.org: However, in OSM terminology, there is no distinction between roundabouts and traffic circles, right? Yes and no ;-) ... in a roundabout entering traffic must always yield to traffic already in the circle That's junction=roundabout or highway=mini_roundabout

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Martin Vonwald
First of all many thanks for your detailed and constructive feedback. 2012/5/15 Andrew Chadwick (lists) a.t.chadwick+li...@gmail.com: Still open, so please provide feedback: * Decision if traffic_calming=chicane or traffic_calming=island should be used in two of the examples Chicanes look

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/16 Andrew Chadwick (lists) a.t.chadwick+li...@gmail.com: According to Wikipedia at least, the ones without priority for circulating traffic are called traffic circles in the US, and they use the BE roundabout as we do in GB:  In the U.S., traffic engineers use the term roundabout for

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-16 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/16 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com: In the JOSM section a link to the JOSM-wiki describtions of the tools [1][2] is useful. [1] https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Action/AlignInCircle [2] https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Action/CreateCircle Links added - thanks.

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-17 Thread Martin Vonwald
Hi! I updated now the english article: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:junction%3Droundabout Translations will follow in the next days. Many thanks to everyone who took part in the discussion and provided valuable feedback. Stay tuned - I'll come back to you for the next article soon ;-)

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-18 Thread Martin Vonwald
: On the page you referensed to. in the table with pictures it says A round place with a traversable island in the middle, but this is neither a mini-roundabout nor a roundabout, but instead a turning circle, which allows large vehicles to turn around. 2012/5/17 Martin Vonwald (Imagic) imagic

Re: [Tagging] (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-18 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/18 Tobias Johansson t...@mensa.se: You understand me correctly. Or maybe a text something similar to this: This picture shows a round place with a traversable island in the middle, but this is neither a mini-roundabout nor a roundabout, but instead a turning circle, which allows large

Re: [Tagging] Another reset on roundabouts

2012-05-18 Thread Martin Vonwald
What I am arriving at is that we need a new node “roundabout” with a mandatory size parameter of some kind. The distinction between the present “mini_roundabout” and a small roundabout would no longer be relevant. Actually it would become very relevant: a router for large veicles would know

Re: [Tagging] Turning circle with island or turning loop (was Re: (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-18 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/18 Josh Doe j...@joshdoe.com: I've created a wiki page for highway=turning_loop: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dturning_loop Thanks for that. Do you think it would be a good idea to put the section Possible misinterpretations also into this article? If so, I would move

Re: [Tagging] Another reset on roundabouts

2012-05-18 Thread Martin Vonwald
Ahm - you completely screwed the article :-S 2012/5/18 Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.com: On 18/05/2012 13:45, Volker Schmidt wrote: We should replace island with island  or obstacle or something to that effect. I've changed it to 'an island or a void'.

Re: [Tagging] Another reset on roundabouts

2012-05-18 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/18 Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.com: Thanks. I guess I edited an old version or something? Sorry about that. Intentions were good. Mistakes happens. No problem :-) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] Another reset on roundabouts

2012-05-18 Thread Martin Vonwald
Are we talking about this?http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Uvl-p3eVBeM/Tr8xUuhRYbI/Iho/NJZGrhCH6yk/s400/53242_1431458077448_1562786087_30891073_4275686_o.jpg If would think this is a Magic Roundabout. Practical and useful tagging of such creations is some kind of art, IMO. Martin Am

Re: [Tagging] Turning circle with island or turning loop (was Re: (Mini)Roundabout: examples

2012-05-18 Thread Martin Vonwald
Am 18.05.2012 um 16:11 schrieb Josh Doe j...@joshdoe.com: While the Possible misinterpretations section is great, I think most people will find it to be too long and won't read it. I think it might belong on a separate page rather than on one tag page or on all (via a template). I would

Re: [Tagging] Merge cycleway=asl/advanced_stop_line/bike_box/...?

2012-05-22 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/22 Andrew Chadwick (lists) a.t.chadwick+li...@gmail.com: Oneways are easy. Two-way situations like  http://binged.it/Kj5IFM  = http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/1239065241 are awkward to interpret. It's intended for westbound traffic turning onto the major road, not eastbound

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Cycle lanes cycle tracks - my findings and a proposal

2012-05-22 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/22 Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com: 2012/5/22 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com -1, this has been discussed ad infinitum on the German list. I'm sure this was already suggested, but I would like to know: what if the sidewalk had the same name as the street, would that be enough?

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Cycle lanes cycle tracks - my findings and a proposal

2012-05-22 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/22 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: -1, this has been discussed ad infinitum on the German list. Tagging the road with bicycle=no would be plain wrong, because it is not forbidden to use the road, you have the obligation to use the cycleway, which is quite different. This is

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Cycle lanes cycle tracks - my findings and a proposal

2012-05-22 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/22 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: See the area-relation-proposal if you are interested. Know it. Hate it. WAY to complex. IMO mapping parallel features would need some heavy support on the editors side. It could be done with the current data model, but I'm not sure if this

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Cycle lanes cycle tracks - my findings and a proposal

2012-05-23 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/22 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2012/5/22 Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com: What is needed (IMO!) is some kind of way (lets call it xway), that may consist of parts. Those parts run by default parallel and may only be moved nearer to/farther away from the center

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Cycle lanes cycle tracks - my findings and a proposal

2012-05-23 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/23 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2012/5/23 Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com: Let's have a look at a street around here: it has two general lanes, one cycle lane and two side walks. I should map this with: * one way is main way * two ways for the lanes * one way

Re: [Tagging] Merge cycleway=asl/advanced_stop_line/bike_box/...?

2012-05-23 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/23 Andrew Chadwick (lists) a.t.chadwick+li...@gmail.com: On 23/05/12 10:52, Gregory Williams wrote: There's also http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/type=advanced_stop_line which uses a relation containing the way approaching the ASL and the node of the junction of the ASL. With this

[Tagging] Update of article highway=mini_roundabout

2012-05-24 Thread Martin Vonwald
Hi! Don't hit me - I'll stop to annoy you with this roundabout issue after this! Promised. I'll just want to let you know, that I reworked the article about mini-roundabouts and want to update it within the next days. You can find it here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Imagic/Werkstatt

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Cycle lanes cycle tracks - my findings and a proposal

2012-05-24 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/23 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2012/5/23 Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com: So I end up with 4 ways (highway, 2 sidewalks, cyclelane), one relation (area) and some nodes (lowered kerbs). Of course this is more complex, but you also get a whole lot more of detail, I

Re: [Tagging] Update of article highway=mini_roundabout

2012-05-24 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/24 Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com: the Irish road sign https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Diamond_road_sign_roundabout.svg, which you show in your sample list of road signs for mini-roundabouts, is for a normal roundabout. You also show the correct Irish mini-roundabout sign

Re: [Tagging] Update of article highway=mini_roundabout

2012-05-24 Thread Martin Vonwald
Looks good to me. Thanks for your work on this, it's not easy walking through a minefield. :) What min. :-D ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Update of article highway=mini_roundabout

2012-05-25 Thread Martin Vonwald
Thank you - I'll add that to the examples! Am 24.05.2012 um 23:19 schrieb William Rieck bi...@thinkers.org: Here is a picture of a mini-roundabout in Kitchener (Waterloo) Ontario, Canada. Just in case you could use an image from Canada.

Re: [Tagging] Update of article highway=mini_roundabout

2012-05-25 Thread Martin Vonwald
Am 25.05.2012 um 01:44 schrieb Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: I'd register my disapproval, but it would simply be ignored, so I'll just ignore the new guidelines and continue tagging as I have been. I'm curious: what exactly do you disapprove, why, and what are your suggestions to

Re: [Tagging] Update of article highway=mini_roundabout

2012-05-25 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/25 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com: Would be even nicer if we can get photos with the traffic_signs. Yes, that's why I only used photos where traffic signs are visible. Sometimes only the backside - true. In this way please change the 4th picture (2.row, 1.) with the one of the (same)

Re: [Tagging] Update of article highway=mini_roundabout

2012-05-25 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/25 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com: Actually, I just changed the only mini I know in my town from a mapped circle with junction=roundabout to a node with highway=mini_roundabout and will try to get there these day to take some photo. Thanks in advance. Depending on your available time

Re: [Tagging] Update of article highway=mini_roundabout

2012-05-25 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/25 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com: What exactly have you in mind? The tagging is identical, it should look identical on the map. What additional information could we provide here? You get an nice option to look at the data (editors) and information about the position (lon/lat) to have

Re: [Tagging] Light-rail station

2012-05-31 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/31 Andrew Errington erringt...@gmail.com: Hi all, This light-rail station is above ground near an airport in South Korea. http://osm.org/go/546KGWeqC--?m I originally mapped the light rail (two tracks) and added a node at each station point (so, two nodes per station, one in each

Re: [Tagging] New access tag value needed?

2012-05-31 Thread Martin Vonwald
Hi! 2012/5/31 Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com: Maybe I wasn't very clear in my first email (not helped by poor formatting), but I'm not looking to add a suggested route. I am trying to indicate cases that have legal binding (or very strong advice from government). For example: 1. A

Re: [Tagging] New access tag value needed?

2012-05-31 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/31 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2012/5/31 Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com: 2. A cycle track in UK that is marked as cycle only does not legally prevent pedestrian use but official guidance states: the route is not intended for pedestrians, there should

Re: [Tagging] New access tag value needed?

2012-05-31 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/31 Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-17530125 (lorry stuck on very tight corner) This is tagged hgv=unsuitable in OSM http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/69590803 In my opinion this doesn't need a special tag. Because the

Re: [Tagging] New access tag value needed?

2012-05-31 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/31 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2012/5/31 Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com: So we are down to one question: does designated mean that other vehicle types are discouraged? This might depend on the country and on the type of designation (which means of transport/type

Re: [Tagging] New access tag value needed?

2012-06-01 Thread Martin Vonwald
2012/5/31 Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk: On Thu, 2012-05-31 at 14:41 +0200, Martin Vonwald wrote: 2012/5/31 Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-17530125 (lorry stuck on very tight corner) This is tagged hgv=unsuitable in OSM

  1   2   3   4   5   >